Drinker's Chasers - War Of The Rohirrim Gets Brutal Reviews

[@StaceyJordan-p7q]

As a 74-year-old white woman living abroad from California who grew up on Tolkein when all the teenagers and college students knew the novels by heart, I'm quietly sewing by hand here in Istanbul. I'm so happy to hear you guys discussing this topic intelligently and artistically. Thank you.

[@ephraimwinslow]

No strong (queer) orc women. 0/10.

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

All the characters were white -10/10

[@Butter_Warrior99]

How else is a healthy Californian supposed to be pegged?

[@thelegendaryklobb2879]

@@Butter_Warrior99 Machines?

[@mvader7188]

War of the rohirrim 2: Tale of scissors

[@jonbaxter2254]

Shame too, as I love orc women... I have a weakness.

[@saelind73]

"Tolkien ignored her." And now, Philippa is "fixing" and "improving" Tolkien? lol Oh the hubris of these people.

[@dlxmarks]

And as a reminder to those who didn't care for the material Jackson and Boyens added to their previous Tolkien adaptations, the Hunt for Gollum will be 90% their story.

[@therealikitclaw8124]

Sheer Fucking Hubris

[@purefoldnz3070]

she didnt write the script.

[@InfernalPasquale]

@@purefoldnz3070 You are lying or ignorant. “Story by: Jeffrey Addiss Will Matthews Philippa Boyens”

[@purefoldnz3070]

@@InfernalPasquale I said script not story.

[@awesomehpt8938]

They could have at least given her a proper Rohan name. But they called her Hera which is Greek and thematically stands out like a sore thumb.

[@Hero_Of_Old]

It's Héra from Old English, it does actually have Saxon roots

[@ernimuja6991]

@@Hero_Of_OldIm sure there were plenty of Saxon names Tolkien did not use because they would stick out like a sore thumb. It’s not about the “umm actually”, it’s about the ruined vibe.

[@AidanLonergan-bz1cp]

They should’ve called her Hild or something. Scratch that they should’ve made a film centered around Helm Hammerhand or not made the thing at all

[@Easttowest45]

​@@ernimuja6991 Nah, if it's Saxon it's legit, dont project your preconcieved "vibe" onto Tolkien

[@honkhonk1715]

@@AidanLonergan-bz1cp There was a point in the movie where I thought Helm was the main character because he was on screen so much. Im guessing just like drinker youve DEFINITELY watched the film and have all of these opinions about it.

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

Fans: be great if we got more Helm Hammerhand WB: we heard you and are excited to instead do a production all about his unnamed daughter

[@RDA000]

Helm Hammerhand gets an insane ammount of screentime and is basically the mary sue of the story tbh.

[@jayone8891]

Her only description in the book is that she was fat

[@sebraven]

Lord of the rings is a franchise . Warner Brothers own the rights of tolkiens work which the tolkien estate sold and they are happy to reap in the money. If people are so concerned about lore then a british movie corporation could buy the rights, but that's not going to happen. Peter Jackson at least tried to remain close to the lord of the rings books .

[@winry2357]

@@sebravenit doesn’t need to be a British company that respects the lore. Heck, look at what they did to Doctor Who. It’s modern entertainment companies as a whole that need to learn to respect the source materials and the fans.

[@aaronn8191]

Hammerhand is written to be insanely strong and in tolkiens writing she wouldn't be able to do anything.​@@RDA000

[@XtoDoubt25]

Saw it last night. Every frame was a painting and every line was a first draft

[@jonbaxter2254]

It was an actual EFAP?

[@calummacritchie7840]

Well described.

[@jadetrentrichards255]

Damn. Summend up my thoughts completely.

[@robertogurrola7465]

I think most the lines were pretty good tbh. Not LOTR good but good for an animated movie

[@Xxgxxaxx]

@@robertogurrola7465in the age of puss in boots last wish, good enough will not cut it. Especially when they unironically call themselves the resistance

[@thomasfucillo]

When the movie started with a passive-aggressive feminist “And she did many great deeds, but you won’t hear about *HER* in any stories” - cut to title - I knew I messed up.

[@mr.s2005]

Basically saying Rohan is so sexist they would erase or change their history to protect their masculinity.

[@DrRasputin2012]

Why won't anyone think of the poor Orc children?

[@piotrektiger8633]

And poor little mumakils😂

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

@@piotrektiger8633 yo this made me lol. I’m sure it’ll go over most peoples heads

[@RCAvhstape]

Tolkien created a completely fictional species to be bad guys, and that's interpreted as racist, because reasons.

[@martindixon54]

@@RCAvhstape It's because the people decrying the Orcs as a racist stereotype are trying to project their own bigotry onto everyone else.

[@charalamboscharalambous165]

@@RCAvhstape here is the thing i ask my self if someone had genetically engineered people for war war and violence and those people attacked and despoiled everything would anyone feel bad about killing them? Because the same people winning and bitching about orks seem to always salivate at the though of using violence against people they label as Nazis.

[@kaiju115]

What’s this?!?! Another Girl Boss Movie revolving around a character that wasn’t even named in the books turns out to be a box office Bomb. **GASP**

[@StimParavane]

I assume the only people that like insufferable Mary Sue girl bosses are the female executives at these movie companies.

[@honkhonk1715]

Why do you consider this a girl boss film?

[@AnthonyRomero-w8u]

Tell us how it isnt and I'll tell you how it is Sincerely, a 27 year old Hispanic American​@@honkhonk1715

[@CookNut456]

@honkhonk1715 cause she’s not named in the books! Do you not listen?!?!

[@joshhudson7413]

@@CookNut456 doesn't mean shes a girl boss. Helm hammerhand is still badass in this film and doesn't get overshadowed by hera.

[@marineboy1964]

I look forward into not seeing it

[@EyeInTheSky982]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Same.

[@Gillymonster18]

Gonna not watch it twice as much.

[@jeezed2950]

You idiots are missing out, it's actually a very much not woke movie.

[@KneightReinagel]

I didn't see it. 10/10 would not see again.

[@RockBrentwood]

Nope. Wrong. Midnight's Edge - the premier anti-Woke reviewer (next to which the KZbinrs on this video are nothing but dilettantes) gives it top rating: "the most *based* movie I have seen in a long, long time", which is good enough for me. It's got low critics (~ 50%) and high audience (~84%) - the classic "Hollywood hates it, the audience loves it" *anti-Woke* stamp. So, this is one where the Critical Drinker got a wee bit too impaired in his judgement, and got it totally wrong, and he and his crew got their heads up their butts on this one, along with all of you going along with them on this.

[@SpectralDarko]

The phenomenon of repackaging old concepts with new terminology

[@bettysteve322716]

NEO Feudalism comes to mind, where the people of prosperous first world countries have "a gradual lowering of their standard of living because they lived in abject poverty for hundreds of years and didn't complain about our obscene wealth and corpulent lifestyles, lets go back to that system, feudalism"

[@aquapuppy9838]

"...the writers were not interested in depicting her as a warrior princess...instead the chose to focus on the choices she makes..." Like the choice to be a warrior princess?

[@honkhonk1715]

what in the film made you believe she was a girlboss warrior princess

[@ebullient39]

after her whole immediate kin were slain, she gave up her role as princess to her cousin. She fought like only once in the whole movie, with an actual shield and sword combo. It was jut a meh anime movie with LOTR slapped on it. Still leagues better than RoP, but an unnecessary one.

[@JamesF-v4x]

@@honkhonk1715the part where she was a princess, who led her father’s people to war, who was a girlboss?

[@jadetrentrichards255]

I chose to watch Kraven instead of this movie...I still chose poorly😅

[@honkhonk1715]

​@@JamesF-v4x Her father led her people to war through literally the entire film. Then her fathers dead corpse is used to save all of the people inside the keep. What are you even talking about?

[@dlxmarks]

Finding out the main character was named Héra filled me with premonitions of lazy writing months ago.

[@ItsNotaTuhmah]

Mind you, Héra (nor Hera) is a Saxon name. Sorry to ruin your brainless argument.

[@null-xf9pd]

Cool, did you know they're pronounced differently!? Shill

[@stoves3]

@@ItsNotaTuhmah The name Héra is borrowed from the Ancient Greek word Hḗra.

[@dlxmarks]

​@@ItsNotaTuhmah héra noun [masculine] _One who obeys another, a servant, follower_ Took about 6 seconds of effort to verify that it's a masculine form noun and not a name on the Bosworth Toller's online Anglo-Saxon dictionary. Also doesn't explain the name, coincidentally, being close both to Hero and to a well known name from Greek mythology.

[@StephenAMCook]

@ItsNotaTuhmah I can not find any information to confirm your claim. Where can I find the name in any sources?

[@andrewsmallacombe9468]

Helm objected to the suggestion that his daughter marry the son of the chief of the Dunlendings; the unnamed daughter didn't decide that she wasn't going to be married off. So they have changed Tolkien's story to tell theirs.

[@robertogurrola7465]

Neither wanted her married to him in the movie. Whats the issue?

[@nickstarlingch]

​@@robertogurrola7465 They turned her into an absurd girlboss figure. She hadn't made up her mind in the original, it was purely Helm's decision, and they changed it to "give her agency."

[@jaimeosbourn3616]

@@robertogurrola7465 The movie sucks?

[@wolfsbane9985]

If you payed attention and watched the movie you'd see that's exactly what happens. Helm objects, and even kills the dude for it.

[@jeezed2950]

​@jaimeosbourn3616 No it doesn't you people obviously haven't watched it. Stop being haters.

[@donttreadonmerica7205]

"I am bride to no man" got me so fired up to leave the theater.

[@annienunyabiz6627]

Reminder that the girlboss of the movie is based around 12 words "...and he [Freca] asked the hand of Helm's daughter for his son Wulf." That's it. Twelve words. And they ignored Haleth, who actually was a badass girlboss that was based off the Amazons, for a character with no name, and 12 words about her.

[@douglasarthur2673]

My review only needs two words (hint: the second word is ‘off’)

[@jonbaxter2254]

They built a two-hour film costing tens of millions over a sentence. What a legacy...

[@therealinformalmusic]

Philippa Boyens, one of the chief writers, has form in ignoring the words of Tolkien when she helped to convert a short book into three long films: From Chapter IV, “Over Hill and under Hill” of •The Hobbit•: “But [goblins] had a special grudge against Thorin’s people, because of the war which you have heard mentioned, but which does not come into this tale”. From Chapter X, “A Warm Welcome” of •The Hobbit•: “It might have been some comfort to Mr. Baggins shivering on the barrels, if he had known that news of this had reached Gandalf far away and given him great anxiety, and that he was in fact finishing his other business (which does not come into this tale) and getting ready to come in search of Thorin’s company.”

[@dlxmarks]

@@therealinformalmusic More proof that the material added by the Jackson team has always been crap and a reminder that the Hunt for Gollum story will be 90% theirs.

[@dlxmarks]

@@therealinformalmusic And as a reminder to those who didn't care for the material Jackson and Boyens added to their previous Tolkien adaptations, the Hunt for Gollum will be 90% their story.

[@The_Black_WoIf]

The only thing exist is The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, everything else is just Fan-fiction

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

Hey some of the games are pretty sweet. Still fanfic for sure, but fun nonetheless

[@SpaceJawa]

There is the animated Hobbit Movie from decades before the live action LotR trilogy.

[@Cancoillotteman]

The canon remains Tolkien's work. The rest are mere adaptations, some really good (LOTR trilogy), some average at best (80's cartoons or The Hobbit movies) and the rest utter shit.

[@Knight-In-Green]

There is only Tolkien. Best and most faithful(word-for-word) adaptations I've come across are soundscape audiobooks, like the work of Dragash and Bluefax. Jackson Trilogy is awesome, but the man had his nuggets sacrificed on the altar of feminism by Philippa & Co. He doesn't get to reap that glory in perpetuity, all while lending his name and efforts to further increasingly more radical bastardizations of Tolkien's work.

[@hharrybboy]

All that is written by Tolkein is gospel

[@MaryRohwer]

Hera sounds like a bad knock off of Eowyn. Hera sounds much more ambitious and self-serving. Whereas Eowyn was charged with governing the Eorlingas as the men go off to war, the story of Hera seems much more about her pushing her way in so that she can be a girlboss. Also, Wormtongue was accused of wanting Eowyn for himself and the men step in to protect her from that; Eowyn doesn't make everything about herself and her desires.

[@honkhonk1715]

Most of the movie was Hera not wanting anything to do with ruling the kingdom. Not sure how this is pushing her way in and being ambitious/self serving. #girlboss. Both you and Drinker's brain has rotted.

[@arnoldtettero8470]

@@honkhonk1715 To be fair Drinker has not seen the movie so he is going off from other people's reviews.

[@ItsNotaTuhmah]

@@arnoldtettero8470 If he didn't see it, then he should just shut up. He's just hating for free and all brainless haters follow suit.

[@MaryRohwer]

@@honkhonk1715 I was going by what I heard of the movie. Because I've heard that, I assumed girlboss. I accepted that as fact since so many movies have put a female slant on old stories. My apologies for that. I have been reading the Helm's Deep chapter of the Lord of the Rings. I have liked how Eowyn was given the charge of the Eorlingas. I thought she has been treated as a trustworthy and noble woman. I think the advertising for this movie gives off the impression of another feminist movie since the valor of Helm the Hammerhand is mentioned in connection with Helm's Deep, but I have not seen anything about Hera. It does beg the question, why was a movie made using JRR Tolkien's name without using a character he developed?

[@honkhonk1715]

@@MaryRohwer The entire source material for this time period is like literally two pages long I think. So to make a film adds a lot the story no matter how true you try to stick to it. I get how it may not be as exactly how Tolkien has envisioned it, and that will always be a bummer. But I also kind of like that there is more life to these two pages.

[@tallulahbeaverhausen4382]

It is pretty sad when you hurry not to watch an adaptation of Tolkien's material...

[@frontiergibberish]

In the past, people dreamed of their favorite books etc. turned into movies. Now, people fear it because the results are very often horrible.

[@ronaldbell7429]

Just like Star Wars, after The Force Awakes, sadly.

[@jeezed2950]

It's actually a very good movie that the marketing team has tried to make fail with heir bad girl boss marketing. It's all out of context.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@jeezed2950 suuuuure it is

[@gorkamorka999]

It's as much Tolkien's material as the Disney's Sequels were written by George Lucas. At best it's glorified fanfiction.

[@quinnimon]

They could have done the Adventure of Beren and Luthien.They could have done the Adventure of Beren and Luthien.They could have done the Adventure of Beren and Luthien.

[@hedgehobbit6844]

Yes but be honest, would we really want to see Beren and Luthien ruined to fit with ✨the message✨? I’d rather studios stick to nameless characters no one cares about.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Too distant.Thorongil saving Gondor would be better.

[@davidcoleman757]

Please God, no. Never. That story is sacred ground and should be left on the page.

[@TheAmericanPrometheus]

They don't have the rights to anything that isn't in the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit

[@nathanapplegate5374]

No. That would have been quite boring

[@SqueakingLion]

I'm eagerly awaiting the 3-hour movie where they talk about Treebeard's decades-long hibernation!

[@genericbeansmile756]

More likely, the film would be a girlboss movie focusing on the Ent wives leaving their husbands

[@SenseiLlama]

Might be an improvement tbh.

[@anthonyml7]

No worries they'll make the trees non-binary so their search for female Ents makes no sense in Two Towers

[@jamesforbes5616]

Lets face it... What the Guardian REALLY hated about the movie is that the female warrior princess wasn't drawn like a Femstodes

[@Maverick.D.]

She barely fights in the movie.

[@jeezed2950]

She hardly fights actually. Please stop spreading bullshit

[@alejandropacheco7832]

I'm surprised she's a redhead with nice t1ts!!... Given how much Hollywood hates female redheads characters 😂

[@jooglebob]

@@Maverick.D.she kills 2 oliphaunts and is the one who slays Wulf…

[@honkhonk1715]

@@jooglebob The watcher kills the oliphant not her no? Yeah she killed her childhood friend when he had a dagger and she has a sword and shield. Is that really the mary sue archetype we all know?

[@josesparrow307]

There's one dude on KZbin called echoes of ea, he's just started an AI narration of the silmarillion, 10minutes each week, and it's the best Tolkien thing I've seen since the movies. Also some pretty funny comments about how much better it is than rings of power..

[@V1489Cygni]

Thank you for introducing him to us! Already looking forward to his work (of love for the source material).

[@MrSRA13]

I mean it's a nice try but AI just doesn't work for Tolkien imo in terms of characters. It's a shame the dialogue between the characters is so bad as well but I shouldn't nitpick a solo effort that still surpasses ROP. But these things always come across as a fast food marvel/witcher mix slapped onto Tolkien. Subtlety is best with JRRT

[@cheeks7050]

yes that is a great us of AI. It is labour saving.

[@dalriada7554]

You can also, you know, read the book.

[@dskennels210]

Saw this Friday night in a mostly empty theater and those that were there were all men . Once again the studio catered to an nonexistent audience. Girl boss story aside the animation and voice acting wasn't great either.

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

Curious what made you want to spend money on this?

[@RDA000]

What did she do exactly that was girl bossy? The eagle scene is arguably the only one

[@jacobpetersen3021]

@@RDA000 They came into this movie with bias. There was almost no girl boss or mary sue which i was pleasantly surprised. The only thing was the eagle and the mountain climbing.

[@Mrlaneck]

​@@jacobpetersen3021​​Hera knows better than all the men and every single suggestion she makes gets ignored by the men and she turns out to be right in the end. She rescues her cousin from the elephant thing, she beats Wulf in single combat twice, once without a weapon, she evacuated the city, unraveled Thornes betrayal and killed Thorne. She set a trap for the wild men, she convinced the giant Eagle thing to help her for no reason, and she turned down the crown because she doesn't want it(can't have it because she's an unnamed, unimportant character in the actual lore and they couldn't make her queen). It was Girl Boss vs Incel: The Movie

[@Mrlaneck]

​@@RDA000She tells Wulf not to ask for her hand in marriage. Right choice. She warns her father not to go to war with Wulf. Right choice. She evacuated the city and killed Thorne after being the first to realize he's a traitor. She warned her brother that he needed a better horse. Right choice. She found the secret passage out of Helmsdeep(forgot the old name) and uncovered the Orcs collecting rings for Sauron. She scaled a frozen mountain and convinced a giant eagle to help her somehow. She set a trap for Wulf and the Wild men. She beat Wulf twice and stopped his sneak attack. She kills Wulf. Her cousin that did nothing the entire movie is the one that killed Wulf canonically. She turns down the crown and goes adventuring to see Gandalf. She did all this while every other character barely did anything. Helm got a cool part where he's kicking ass until he has to sacrifice himself to save his made up daughter, but not before telling her that their people need her more than they need him. Her brother killed a big elephant and it's riders. That's it. Every other character was sidelined to make her look better and more competent. She's a girl boss. Not as aggressively obnoxious as some other recent "characters" but she shares the same beats with them nonetheless.

[@mortuitissedai2085]

People forget that the Warrior Princess archetype is instituted partly as a commentary on a failing society where the patriarchs are either not living up to their selfless, provider roles, or are completely ossified in rigid tradition that is guiding their people to doom. Now, that may sound like some kind of weird message slop take - but here's the thing. Well executed, the underlying assumptions of the more traditional roles of men and women remain fully intact, and the warrior princess herself longs for normality - and realistically, requires male assistance for the real brunt of any kind of violence. Moreover, the goals are distinct. Rather than overthrow the concept of patriarchy, the warrior princess seeks to shame/embolden the men of her civilisation into action - to resume their roles as protectors, so she can be married and live happily ever after. Admittedly, my (very short) thesis could use a bit more unpacking/meat on the bones as it were, but I'm mostly just trying to point out that the reason she's a worse Eowyn, is kind of a cargo cult situation - modern creatives having no grounding in reality, understanding of tradition, or grasp of what a human actually is - therefore how to craft a meaningful human story. And so, they rely on hollow skinsuits of the fable archetypes of yore, in order to please the plebians whom they view with utter contempt. If you want to know how they think human beings (well, whatever they categorise themselves as these days) behave/should be, watch some of the films that win the globes and oscars.

[@Balance080]

Could honestly make a video essay on this take, It makes so much sense and puts the archetype in such a different light

[@DzinkyDzink]

Are you talking about Joan of Arc?

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

Very interesting! Let's apply this to ROP. Do the elves, the Southlands, Numenor and the Harfoots meet your criteria? "Failing society, where the patriarchs are either not living up to their selfless, provider roles, or are completely ossified in rigid tradition that is guiding their people to doom." The girlbosses in ROP: 1. Guyladriel: imho, it is within the realm of plausibility that a female elf could have been trained to be a military leader in the thousands of years that she has been alive. Yet seeing her as "commander of the northern armies" still feels "off." When all the male soldiers were basically helpless against the snow troll, then she killed it almost effortlessly, it didn't make me admire her. The scene just seems stupid. She was ridiculously overpowered, and the men were hopelessly incompetent. 2. Re Southlands: In order to make Bronwyn a leader, the men necessarily have to be simple, docile, passive, unable to help themselves, unable to lead, and unable even to desire to lead. They have no courage, they don't have any competitive drive, and it's almost like they need to be persuaded to prevent their own deaths and the deaths of their wives and children at the hands of the orcs. Nobody seems to have a military or leadership background. But Bronwyn alone seems to understand the danger, and she wants to prevent their deaths. If I were to suggest a motto for the Southlands men, it would be "idgaf." Or >shrug< "whatever." 3. Miriel: I will give the queen regent a pass because she was born into the royal family and was the only one available to be the regent while her father the king was in his dotage. Miriel being a military leader is not even remotely plausible. 4. As for Nori: for any community at any time in history, is there a precedent for a young unmarried woman, who is otherwise healthy and marriageable, being allowed to go alone with a strange man to roam around areas of the world of which their community has no knowledge - and for no particular reason? The very likely fate of such a woman would be to be sold into slavery or prostitution, SA'd ad infinitum either way, or mercifully murdered right away. Given the way the Harfoots ridicule how their community members are killed, it seems like they would not have a problem with Nori suffering any of these fates. The best video regarding the roles of men and women traditionally vs "for modern audiences" is from the channel "note the good." The video name is "What we learn from Éowyn, and why other strong female characters are boring." Thanks for reading! 🙏

[@jonbaxter2254]

Who'd have thought writing a new history around a previously unnamed character would have such disatrous impact to lore, storytelling and character development...

[@Levariatine]

I agree. That's why I hate Final Fantasy Tactics story

[@robertogurrola7465]

It didn't tho? What part of this in any way, negated or negatively impacted anything

[@jaimeosbourn3616]

@@robertogurrola7465 Still shilling I see.

[@rburk854]

@@jaimeosbourn3616 Shilling for youtubers in your weird culture war isn't much better pal

[@jaimeosbourn3616]

@@rburk854 How 5 year old. Trying to accuse another of the same action you were just accused of. How unimaginative.

[@tricivenola8164]

Here I am, a 74-year-old white woman expat from California who grew up on Tolkein when every teen and college kid had the books memorized, quietly doing my hand sewing here in Istanbul, so damn glad to hear you guys going on about this stuff with intelligence and aesthetic sense. Thank you.

[@sarahharker8342]

Sounds like you should meet up with Stacey at the top of the comments. She is also from California doing handing sewing in Istanbul, with a passion for Tolkien. What are the odds?

[@TheBrokenSword]

How frustrating was this film!! Could have been great… but nope 🙄

[@IStealButterdToast]

Every time they make one of these, the quality of The Hobbit trilogy gets better and better

[@TheBrokenSword]

@ so true 😂

[@rburk854]

@@IStealButterdToast I enjoyed this movie more than the second and third Hobbit movies.

[@mr.s2005]

​@@TheBrokenSwordso much they could of done, but instead all they did was make, an okay film. Not too many cringy spots, but they were there and too many illogical decisions and not enough explanations like why gondor was actually unable to help. Overall, on it's own, it was as remotley bad as i thought it would be, but it doesn't add much besides being a well done fan fiction film that okay and did have some great moments, just undermined alot.

[@skylx0812]

Hera was the sister/wife of Zues. What an odd reference to introduce in a Tolkien story. These ppl are twisted.

[@remuslazar2033]

They could have used Helda

[@Easttowest45]

Héra is an actual Saxon name. The resemblance to the Greek goddess is coincidence. Very tired of seeing every youtube comment scholar regurgitating this piece of apocrypha.

[@stoves3]

@@Easttowest45 The name Héra is directly borrowed from the Ancient Greek word Hḗra.

[@dlxmarks]

@@Easttowest45 héra noun [masculine] _One who obeys another, a servant, follower_ Took about 6 seconds of effort to verify that it's a masculine form noun and not a name on the Bosworth Toller's online Anglo-Saxon dictionary. Also doesn't detract from the name being both close to Hero and to a well-known name from Greek mythology.

[@ManOfEthnicity]

It's like having a guy named Mohammad in a C S Lewis story.

[@RCAvhstape]

The Rims of Power

[@samir.xanmuradov]

the rangs of powah

[@TheAmericanPrometheus]

​@@samir.xanmuradov we wuz rangz

[@tylergoodman3560]

We need people who understand the source material in charge of these projects. 💯🎉

[@ItsNotaTuhmah]

They did far more than these haters.

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

The people who wrote this also wrote the screenplay for the Lord of the rings trilogy by Peter Jackson. They certainly seem to have understood the source material back then.

[@honkhonk1715]

The source material is literally 2 pages long.

[@Don9872]

@@dronesclubhighjinks You mean one of the three people involved in the trilogy… along with her nepo baby daughter.

[@joshuakim5240]

What really sucks is that Helm's daughter could have been featured and do plenty of stuff without shoving Helm Hammerhand to the side. Have her start off as a dainty princess who decides to support the inevitable war effort by learning to fight, with her brothers helping to teach and support her. She would screw up a few times (maybe even make a horrible mistake that costs lives and she feels immense guilt about it), help fight the Dunlendings, and maybe even be the lone survivor of the battle that would kill her father and brothers and be the one who informs her cousin, Frealaf, to ultimately help him defeat Wulf. Basically, just follow the original story but insert her as a minor influence rather than the central one. Give her a hero's journey of starting off weak but through the hardening of warfare and the sacrifices of her family, she becomes a badass who fights alongside her cousin (the dude whose supported to defeat Wulf). It's so weird too because the writers seem to get Helm (dude is the freaking One Punch Man menace like he is in lore), yet refuse to put him at the center of HIS freaking story.

[@StephenAMCook]

I’m seeing a lot of people say ‘Hera is actually a Saxon name’. Hera is not a Saxon name nor was it used in any naming conventions as far as I can find. All I can find is Hera in Old Irish which means ‘this place’ or ‘this time’. It seems the word ‘hera’ is essentially an archaic word for ‘here’ but may not be directly linked in any way linguistically.

[@StephenAMCook]

I spoke to one person recently who said that it is derived from the Saxon word ‘heorra’ but I think that’s unlikely because I’m pretty sure that ‘heorra’ means ‘door’.

[@i_liek_bois]

"Hera name origin" in google immediately says Greek.

[@dlxmarks]

For all the "actually" arguers who repeat that claim without checking things themselves, héra noun [masculine] _One who obeys another, a servant, follower_ According to the Bosworth Toller online Anglo-Saxon dictionary, it's a masculine form noun and not a name. Also that doesn't explain the "coincidence" of the word being both close to Hero and to a well-known name from Greek mythology. And I don't care if they can prove even "Badassgirlboss" is a legit Anglo-Saxon name, it would still be distracting to use that for a movie character.

[@MajorSmurf]

The closest name I could find from a database that is an actual name in Anglo-Saxon mythology is Herla but that's masculine. For feminine closest I could is Hild or Hilda assuming we want her to keep the letter H. Although we have a bunch of names they could choose from in Anglo myth or Saxon culture. I don't know how using a name database is so hard. I legit do it for all my characters to keep them within the same culture from name alone. Like a small detail but it's not hard to browse or search for a name meaning. Like plenty of feminine names mean protection, battle and so on.

[@ClinicalDecisionYikesYT]

Hera was Zeus’s wife. That’s where I thought they all got it from.

[@franklee6746]

Oops! All Girl Bosses Part 107, has flopped at the box office this weekend, marking yet another consecutive bomb for Hollywood's most illustrious and beloved cinematic franchise.

[@honkhonk1715]

What in the film made you think this was a girlboss movie?

[@hoodsom3]

@@honkhonk1715 still shilling for the shitass movie. hera will not fuck you dude

[@SheldonAdama17]

My favorite part was when the lady yelled “it’s time to go to war with the rohirrim” then went to war with the rohirrim. Truly stunning and brave writing.

[@nameless616]

> Want to see it in the cinema in order to support 2D animated theatrical films. > Don't want to see it in order to not support the girlfbossification of Tolkien. Difficult decisions.

[@MrJvog]

I just came from the cinema, she's a girl boss.

[@robertogurrola7465]

​@MrJvog why would you lie? She got captured, nearly killed, rescued 3x, only killed 1 person on her own. That's not a girl boss. She and her cousin were just as smart and worked together, she didn't do everything. She used her knowledge wisely like any other lotr female. She didn't even take the crown. She's a good female character, not a Mary sue or a girl boss.

[@1_underthesun]

Compromise. Pirate it

[@jaimeosbourn3616]

@@robertogurrola7465 Are you being paid to shill for this flick?

[@jeezed2950]

​@MrJvog You did not, she is not a girl boss at all, she almost died multiple times, and got kidnapped too. She only beat wolf because they used to spar and she was just better with a blade than him.

[@terrorcop101]

They already made The Hunt for Gollum years ago. It was a twenty minute long short, fanmade film that, in my opinion, was pretty fun to watch and should be left alone.

[@dlxmarks]

And as a reminder to those people who didn't care for the material that Jackson and Boyens added to their previous Tolkien adaptations, the Hunt for Gollum will be 90% their story.

[@jackjmaheriii]

Honestly… I’m really sad to hear it. I grew up on the old, Heman cartoons, and a little bit later in got Pirates of Dark Water. For my 12th birthday, my dad gave me his vintage set of the LotR. I wanted this to be good (or even mid) so bad that it almost made my brain explode.

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

I love Herman as well! I still have all the books, also Far Side, Calvin & Hobbes and Fox Trot.

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

Try watching the review of "Council of the rings." He provided a balanced analysis. If you love lore, I think you'll love his channel and "Tolkien untangled." The latter just made a 45 minute video on the actual story of Helm Hammerhand.

[@Grasslander]

This is just like Dune. "Let's finish the second movie with Chani's angry face to leave a bitter taste. Also, instead of the Dune prequel trilogy with interesting stories about a young Leto Atreides, the Harkonnens and the Emperor, let's invent a story about women thousands of years earlier."

[@theyatsyspam]

You ever heard what anime localizers do to the dialogue of shows imported from Japan? The Westerners who aim to get jobs in the industry are far different from those who actually enjoy Anime, much like the situation of a great array of other mediums.

[@D.Wagner2]

The only person left to lead a small army of men is someone with no experience doing that. Not any of the men left in the Rohirrim. It’s not like there’s a hierarchy system to the last man in the military or anything. Makes sense 😂

[@mr.s2005]

They literally showed two lords were there, but they did nothing but argue and it really only was the old woman who gave any orders. Everybody else just stood around or ran away.

[@snorkman2]

I used to get excited for announced sequels, films, and games. So much so that I was careful to stay alive while waiting. When I hear about a new project in development these days, I stop looking both ways when I cross the street. W4*

[@tuppybrill4915]

12:40 Is this real? Are there actually people who complain that Tolkien basically ignored characters that he didn't write material on? They do know he was making it up out of his own (well read) head don't they? Middle earth doesn't actually exist outside of Tolkien's writing.

[@Ghost7065]

It helps if you don't think about it.

[@honkhonk3335]

Can't wait for a feature length film about Samwise Gamgee taking a dump, they have no shame

[@dlxmarks]

They will promote the movie as being about Sam taking a dump but then it will end up being about Rose and their 6 daughters.

[@snakedogman]

No, Sam is a man. They'd sooner invent a never-named female Hobbit and make a feature length film about HER taking a dump.

[@dylannnjohnson]

Let’s make a crappy animation in order to keep the rights of LOTR.

[@anthonyml7]

"Such a missed opportunity..." - Drinker inadvertently describing Hollywood's moves the past 5 years 🤣

[@alvin081988]

Remember it was Philippa Boyens who wanted Arwen in Helm's Deep which was cut

[@maxis2k]

The Guardian dislikes it because it's anime. They flat out admit it in the article. If this was a live action product made by a western team, with a girlboss character, they'd be calling it the usual "stunning" and "brave" and "uplifting." No matter how bad the writing is.

[@prnation1201]

Echo chamberlain has the perfect voice

[@bigboi7817]

It actually is very well animated. What a shame. I hope the animators don’t suffer too much from the failure.

[@hinugundamB]

the anime companies are prepaid for their work, what happens after release have pretty much nothing to do with them. these days, many Anime are produced every season knowing it will flop.

[@daviddiggens8841]

Helm hammer hands unnamed brother Gundam Coomergamer was also left out sadly. If only the representation was there

[@redwindstorm]

Just watch Frieren instead

[@awilson5684]

Honestly, that's good advice over a large majority of shows. Edit: spelling

[@NoidoDev]

Or rewatch it. And then there is also Delicious in Dungeon, and next year will be Witch Hat Atelier. Plenty of other fantasy anime as well, e.g. Re:Zero.

[@och70]

I was kind of hyped for this movie...and then Nerdrotic talked about the plot. The potential was there, but they fumbled it completely.

[@honkhonk1715]

Nerdrotic went on a mental breakdown over "shieldmaidens" which were mary sue amazonian esc super women tribe. In reality, the word "shieldmaiden" was said like a single time in the entire film. The tribe is already dead/extinct. The main character Hera is also not a shieldmaiden.I encourage you to go see it as its really not as bad as these people are saying. And I hate mary sue as much as anyone else.

[@Veritas.Studios.Channel]

A month ago, my four daughters, son and wife re-watched the extended edition of the original 'The Lord of the Rings' trilogy... ...and we loved it! (a friend of mine recently re-read the novel, and I plan to re-read 'The Silmarillion' in 2025).

[@tomrodgers6629]

The Anime style taken me right out of it. Why use a Great Eagle when you can use a Veritech Fighter.🤣🤣🤣 It looked like 80s 90s anime,

[@omnianimator8468]

Them talking about her elbowing out space for herself, this is the epidomy of inventing your own problems. There are stories they could adapt but they had to invent an oppressed character.

[@daveshoe4574]

You know, I want to film about how selfish these characters are seriously the entire lower class pays for everything they own, giving them a luxurious life on the blood and sweat, and the only thing they have to do is to ensure peace which means sometimes Marring someone you don’t want to

[@mr.s2005]

Incorporating modern ideas can work if it's done right....but Hollywood sucks at doing it right.

[@SpaceJawa]

All the other reactions makes me wonder all the more what was going through the head of Midnight's Edge's Andre when he gave it a positive review.

[@MaztRPwn]

Anyone that looks at Ghost in the Shell or Chainsaw Man and thinks that fake buzzword “objectification” is a pure idiot and doesn’t know a thing about anime.

[@jesterssketchbook]

yeh that article comment was very ignorant - it read like someone who hasnt watched a single anime in their life - like he just googled "popular anime" to get some references

[@Zinj1000]

The fact they didn't give her a name based in old English shows they didn't have the right attitude.

[@gabrielhersey5546]

Peter Jackson executive producer. Fails to follow basic lore of the books

[@thomaspunt2646]

The one time you don't want a cute redheaded anime waifu as a protagonist.

[@Dissident_Porcupine73]

Christmas Mauler is the best Mauler!

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

They knew what they were doing and this is the result of that.

[@Lakers24bn]

The sheer arrogance of WB to toss aside one of Tolkien's most important character to focus on a made up one, I hope they flop badly.

[@MrBentham]

News came out that this was rushed out only to hold on to the rights to these films. They didn't care if it was good.

[@brianlagrant9757]

Tolkien and anime just doesn't go together.

[@NoidoDev]

First of all, Western animation isn't anime. Also, it could work very well. The problem is the story and the style. Tolkien would need to look more like Attack On Titan and a bit of Frieren. Or Claymore (without the whiny boy).

[@GrugGangGrugGang]

You awoke the weebs, enjoy their shrieking. "Erm, Actually..."

[@Gormekistan]

They've got an entire mythology to choose from, and make a movie about a fucking footnote smh 😔

[@reimannsum9077]

I regret that a film that is tremendously beautiful in its animation should be undercut by modern writing.

[@honkhonk1715]

what modern writing ruined the film?

[@ythandlename]

Such is the case of Castlevania. First season was great but the followup seasons were embarrassing the watch.

[@jeje4131]

I heard the animation is very choppy

[@reimannsum9077]

@@honkhonk1715 The warping of the universe around the girl-boss archetype, for one, in order to cater to modern gender sensibilities when the more lore-accurate, sound, and natural plotline was there for the taking given that Helm himself was right there for them to use.

[@ItsNotaTuhmah]

@@reimannsum9077 No boss-type here. You either didn't see it like the Drinker or you are so brainwashed that saw something it wasn't on the film. The main character in all important aspects is Helm and his deciption is 100% true to the appendices. Héra is just the character that tolds the story, just like Bilbo was on the Hobbit and Frodo on LOTR.

[@YouTubalcaine]

Héra is the new Tinker Bell - the personification of the woke belief that one can be or do anything simply by sprinkling yourself with pixie dust and thinking wonderful thoughts. These people are incapable of writing good fantasy because they're too busy living in one.

[@retroelite1019]

If they wanted to make a warrior princess, why did they make it in the Lord of the rings universe why couldn't they make it's own thing. I love the anime aesthetic, and I'm sick of the live action slop Hollywood is putting out today. So, I would have loved an animated lord of the rings adaptation but not like this.

[@hinugundamB]

Because there's already a gazillion warrior princess in anime (even more if you add in Hentai ones, if you know what I mean), it really won't mean anything without the LOTR trademark.

[@kanrakucheese]

Just remember: Even if they want to course correct, production times on major media are so long that even if the studios all hit full on emergency break and prevented any further girlboss therapy session works (which they haven't) we've got *years* of stuff so far into production it can't be fixed or canned.

[@ReinoldFZ]

10:32 why? because arrogant talentless people will appropriate the work of geniuses, and by "correcting" it to fit their ideologies they think people will forget Tolkien and remember them. Or not, just corporate DEI guidelines applied in a robotic way

[@JohnDoe-jc5kt]

To my limited knowledge, most LotR fans like live action, as many people do. I think that animation can be used to great success, even more so than live action sometimes, but it has a harder time appealing to the broader audience as opposed to the more niche audience that likes cartoony stuff. Even if the story was faithful, and the animation was less stiff and choppy, I think the animation still would've been a head turner for many fans.

[@olafgurke4699]

Don't underestimate the waves a great fantasy anime / animation can make. Just look at Frieren for proof. No, I think it's quite because the product is bad, and was known to be bad, because everyone handling this IP as well as other major western IP's mainly produces shite. If people come to expect the new thing coming out to be bad, why watch it? Even if it might be good, like Andor, it can fly under the radar due to expectations being so low.

[@DustinBarlow8P]

I'm an LOTR fan, but more of an anime fan, so I gave it a shot. Went into it with an open mind and promised myself I wouldn't get irritated with the girl bossing. I made it longer than most; I made it to the one-hour mark. What made me turn it off is not only was there next-level Girl Bossing, they made every single man. Every single male in Rohan looks like a coward and weakling. Then the heir of Galadriel comes in like some avenging angel and saves the day. Work up some fake tears that she actually cares about any of her family, then she has some flirtatious banter with Warrior Grandma, her lesbian lover... So a show made for action-loving lesbian LOTR fans, which is probably. 3% of the fanbase is the pitch basically.

[@honkhonk1715]

What was the next level girlbossing that made you leave the film?

[@durzostern]

My kids are huge LoTR fans. Took them to see the movie last night. The movies biggest crime is that it was unbelievably boring. Why it needed to be 2+hours is beyond me.

[@MyraTalisen]

2:00 Viggo Mortensen is 66! 😮

[@pupper9474]

It's a shame, it looked beautiful.

[@PossumsTophat]

I disagree that the Arcane art style would have been the way to go. The hyper realist anime style wouldn't fit as well as the art styles used in something like Attack on Titan. I even think the studio Ghibli art style would work fantastically in a fantasy setting. I saw the movie and it's a real piece of crap. Just terrible.

[@kingDowahs]

A Middle Earth film in Studio Ghibli style could be awesome if written/adapted correctly

[@oscarborjajr1176]

My theory they did the anime art style was to lure in people who are fans and love anime the art style. To bad the script sucks which is a huge shame and tragedy that they rather pander to the audience that don't care about lord of the rings

[@rodrigodicandia6932]

arcane season 2 is bad, girl kiss girl that lesbian

[@PossumsTophat]

@rodrigodicandia6932 That seems like maybe you're setting the bar a little low if that's how you criticize media. Girls can kiss other girls and sometimes they like it... according to Katy Perry.

[@SK-yx7hm]

Im getting real sick of western companies just sticking the word anime on everything and think its gonna sell.

[@SauerBall4384]

I have a buddy in the film industry and he said studios are not doing movies with male leads, only female or people that identify as female. His words!

[@rabronin]

This isn't exactly news. We've known this for the last half decade.

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

He works in what capacity? As a janitor?

[@JamesB21a]

The whole "Girl Boss" Trailer was a huge turn off.

[@domomonstero3077]

Every time I see any modern WB product I always remember the wise words of Nerdrotic, "WB are the dumbest fucking company on earth." -Gary from Nerdrotic.

[@Veritas.Studios.Channel]

Genuine laugh out loud! This year, I am soooo sick of the destruction of everything from Lord of the Rings to Halo to Star Wars...

[@rburk854]

please stop rotting your brain by watching a dude who served 4 years in prison for robbing houses 😂

[@Veritas.Studios.Channel]

@@rburk854 So we should never listen to anyone who has committed a criminal act. So, have you ever pirated a movie? ;) (If not, you have my respect, probably ;) ).

[@UltraAge]

It’s amazing they keep trying to force this girlboss DEI crap on us. They must hate making money 🤷‍♂️

[@anzelmasmatutis2500]

Trailer had the message: "Who needs Man on battlefield when One Woman can do better" :P

[@EvilExcalibur]

Another girlboss story and absolutely nobody was surprised. I'm pretty sure that the entire thought process behind it being animated is "anime is popular therefore make it look anime" and nothing else.

[@honkhonk1715]

What in the movie made you think this was a girlboss film?

[@snakedogman]

Also, it's relatively cheap to make.

[@00-Fresh-Snow-00]

In other words, it's 'Lord of the Fanfiction'

[@tuppybrill4915]

I thought someone did a Hunt for Golum fanfiction film years ago.

[@RDA000]

Its funny that Helm Hammerhand kills like 100 men in this movie with his bare hands yet the main female character barely kills one man with help from her horse and is called a girl boss.

[@DreadArkive]

People expect 1/1 Tolkein adaptations, and it isn't going to happen. This film takes far fewer liberties than even Peter Jackson's trilogy did, many of which added non-existant characters, totally altered ones that did. It really does largely come down to people trying to find more anti-woke material. I've been anti-woke for some time, thanks to the garbage happening in the gaming industry, but what I'm seeing from this movie is nowhere close to it. People need to quit trying to view this movie as trying to be canon or something, it's an alternate history, like the rest of the Peter Jackson version (which people seem to forget this movie exists within).

[@atafmaalaoui4761]

Its funny like you forgot all the others scenes that make it a girl boss movie. Not just one.

[@honkhonk1715]

@@atafmaalaoui4761 Why do you consider this a girl boss movie?

[@RDA000]

​@@atafmaalaoui4761 Name them then. I went into this movie assuming she would be a girl boss and was counting them and there were like 2 and a half moments in the whole movie.

[@RDA000]

​@@atafmaalaoui4761 "other scenes" that just shows that your coping hard here. Her beating a middle aged man with help from a horse is girl bossy?

[@jasonsantos3037]

Yeah it feels like they're not gonna be faithful to the source material of Tolkien's.

[@kerravon4159]

I've been force-fed enough strong whamen to last me until the end of time, this is no exception.

[@honkhonk1715]

What in the film led you to believe it was a "strong wamen mary sue" story?

[@M-S_4321]

We've learned how goose livers are fattened up to make goose liver pate. I don't want wahmen rammed down my throat to fatten my liver for Hwood profit?

[@ItsNotaTuhmah]

So you hate Eowyn. Héra is not stronger than Eowyn by any means.

[@M-S_4321]

@@ItsNotaTuhmah Were you replying to my comment (which seems to have been platform unalived?)

[@ItsNotaTuhmah]

@@M-S_4321 Nope. The OP.

[@GenoX1987]

3/10 story 4/10 animation 8/10 background art 2/10 rewatachability

[@anzelmasmatutis2500]

Trailer had the message: "One Woman can do more on battlefield than many of Man".

[@ItsNotaTuhmah]

Which DOESN'T happen in the movie.

[@terrylandess6072]

If it's not one cash grab, it's another. I am happy to live in the past - saving both money and sanity. Have fun kids! Just keep it to yourselves when you can't.

[@SheyD78]

Even the name of the character is a spit in the eye of Tolkien, since Hera is Greek where as the names in Middle-Earth, particularly for the Rohirrim are Northern European in origin.

[@mooparr]

Really wanted this to be a smash hit and an Oscar darling. It's the kind of movie that takes a risk outside of the generalized range of what's allowed to be produced. Unfortunately, this means that a major production anime of a western work as a film will be permanently shelved again. There's a lot of things that this art style could be used for that will never be made now.

[@Ingel_Riday6690]

Yeah... I saw the trailer in theatres ages back and just cringed. It was clearly LOTR: The Modern Audience. A complete re-work of the lore to promote a nameless background character into the lead role. Shots of her riding and fighting that screamed girl-boss with every frame. A goofy romance conflict / sub-plot crammed into the narrative that never existed in the first place. Even the character's name, which they had to make up because she was so unimportant that she DID NOT HAVE A NAME, was egregious. This is The Lord of the Rings, mind you. Tolkien named everything and everyone in sight. This character wasn't deemed important enough for a name. That's how minor she was. As for the name given to this character? "Hera." The writers for this fan-fiction named her Hera. In a franchise steeped in Anglo-Saxon mythos and naming conventions... Hera. Bunch of fools. Oh, and if the leaks are to be believed, she apparently discovers a tribe of druidic Amazonian-equivalent warrior women and leads them into battle, defeating the enemy with the power of womanhood. All while aided by the eagles, who apparently she can commune with because of course she can. Cause she's the bestest ever. I wouldn't watch Lord of the Rings: War of the Rohirrim FOR FREE. What a waste of time, money, and effort. Edit addition: I do wonder... was Warner Brothers not squandering enough money via its gaming division to sate its own lust for self-harm? Did it need additional losses to add to the books? You know, to spruce 'em up for whoever they plan on selling the company to? Bleh.

[@honkhonk1715]

Bro just go watch the film. You have all of these opinions based off of a trailer and "leaks". The film has been out, and its not as bad as you think it is. Probably costs less than $10 to see. This "druidic Amazonian warrior women tribe" is mentioned literally a single time, and never brought up again. The "tribe" isn't even in the film, they are actually already killed off/extinct. Hera isnt one of them. Brainrot

[@Ingel_Riday6690]

@@honkhonk1715 Glad to hear that the druid-Amazon leak was just a tacky throwaway line that they veered away from thereafter. Just looked up a plot synopsis from the overseas showing and the eagle communing thing is unfortunately real. Bleh. Anyhoots, no. I don't support this stuff anymore. I'm tired of giving money to ESG projects in the hopes that maybe they'll only suck a little. And it doesn't just cost $10. It also costs 2 hours and 14 minutes of my life to see. I'd rather spend that time doing something actually enjoyable. This film is dead to me.

[@honkhonk1715]

@@Ingel_Riday6690 There are like two eagle interactions in the entire film. Its also not just specifically her that the eagles interact with. They dont even speak to her because she cant understand them. Wasting your time isnt seeing the film. Its having these opinions and commenting on something you havent even watched. No offense but Its also a waste of our time reading it as well.

[@MasticinaAkicta]

Yet another case of "we know better"

[@occupywallets9096]

hummer hand

[@mr.s2005]

As a separate fan fiction. I give it a 6/10. Adaption is 3/10. Overall was okay with the film...but it's a pretty dumb to say Rohan didnt sing any songs about her. Made no sense, no nation is that sexist, yet the producers decided to say Rohan was.