Air Crash Investigation: OSU Basketball Team Tragedy | King Air 200 Crash

[@goyof671]

As a GA pilot and OSU grad, I remember this event well. It was a blow to the entire OSU community. The only addition I would have made to your video would be the mentioning, either by narration or by text, the names of all 10 men killed. It was a plane crash, but more importantly a human tragedy. OSU players: Nate Fleming and Daniel Lawson Student manager: Jared Weiberg Radio broadcaster: Bill Teegins Pilots: Denver Mills and Bjorn Fahlstrom Director of Basketball Operations: Pat Noyes Trainer: Brian Luinstra Media Relations Coordinator: Will Hancock Television/radio engineer: Kendall Durfey

[@Mike-zf4xg]

just because they were silly athletes, it doesn't mean they're entitled to a memorial here. that doesn't happen for anybody

[@brandyyolidio4213]

That was nice to list their names, thank you.

[@almorris171]

@@Mike-zf4xg The late Jimmy Buffett sang a song about you. "Were you born asshole, or did you work at it all your life"

[@raymondcaylor6292]

​@@Mike-zf4xg 2 cents better left in your pocket

[@kristensorensen2219]

Old King Air😮

[@jordanrosen2042]

Well done video. The co- pilot was a very close friend and one of the finest human beings I have ever met. We were actually waiting for him to get home that night as we were all going to meet up and go out for drinks. It ended up being one of the worst nights of my life. RIP Bjorn, I'll never forget you, buddy...

[@xenadu02]

Student pilot here. This kind of thing is why I always fly with a Sentry device and ForeFlight on my iPad or phone. I always have a backup AHARS system with me, completely independent and battery-powered. Not available in 2001 but something every pilot should have these days. I also have a handheld VHF radio as a radio backup and a flashlight. Always be prepared!

[@desdicadoric]

A pilot once told me he has a, well what’s basically a car ornament suspended from a string over the flight controls, so whatever happens he can look at that and know what his orientation is

[@AlanMydland-fq2vs]

sin vision😂❤

[@alfredomarquez9777]

​@@desdicadoric Completely useless and wrong! In a tightening turn, any pendulum like device will lie due to centripetal force of the turn.

[@FarmerFpv]

@@desdicadoric You made that up. No pilot will ever tell you that. That is nonsense.

[@dickfitswell3437]

​@@desdicadoricthat was exactly what I was thinking I would do. Quickly find something that can hang from the ceiling with something heavy tied or affixed at the bottom so I could have a visual idea of if I was level. I personally would have had one of those hermetically sealed balls with a floaty thinner sphere inside showing level and if I was turning

[@jessenorris8621]

I was ridding co-pilot on a Beechcraft D-50. Just after takeoff, in the fog, we were about 1 thousand feet above the ground when the pilot dropped his pencil and bent ove4r to pick it up by his left leg. He found it and sat up really quick; that's when the disorientation started. The pilot said that his attitude indicator was messed up and leveled the airplane using the moving fluid in his inner ear which put us into a left hand turn and the nose began to drop. I knew what was going on and told him mine was working and I would level the airplane. He let me have the controls and I then told him to sit up straight in his seat and close his eyes; he did so. I leveled the wings and told him to open his eyes. He dis and said that the indicator was still messed up and began a turn to the left again with the nose dropping. Now we were only about 700 feet above the ground in the fog and headed toward the ground. I told him to let me fly and to sit up in his seat and close his eyes; he did so. I put the airplane into a right turn and rolled back level while telling him to open his eyes. Just like magic his instruments were working just fine. He thanked me for saving his life and I told him that I just was saving my life and he was just along for the ride.

[@melanieharris9221]

This really takes me back! My daughter was in her Junior year at OSU. She was the Editor for "The O”Collegian (O’Colly)” at the time. She had to go in & report on it. My parents & I had season tickets to the basketball games so we were familiar with the players. I will never forget this day. It was just so heartbreaking.

[@krmgradiojoe]

I flew on that plane with most of the people on the plane that crashed. I knew the pilot and flew with him many times. Sometimes just me and him. I traded places with a person on that flight. Changes your world forever.

[@cowebb2327]

Wow.

[@esquireaudits4737]

Damn.

[@Mimibryant0123]

That’s crazy! You are meant to be here!

[@philipbundy2245]

I'm glad you survived Joe. We still love what you do for us locally. I can't imagine being in your shoes though. Probably never look at life that same from that point on. Bless you brother.

[@CanYouRepeatTheQuestion]

That’s crazy! I knew the pilot and flew with him often. I also traded places with a person on that flight.

[@larryroyovitz7829]

I can't imagine the fear this would bring. As a Canadian, I have driven in many blizzards, and there have been times where visibility was absolutely zero. The feeling of driving (let alone flying) into a blank abyss is scary. Luckily, with driving - don't panic. Take your foot off the gas, and don't brake hard (many reasons for this, one, could be slipery and second, someone behind you will NOT see you). Try your best to keep the wheel straigh, but, a slight edge toward the shoulder is okay, provided you don't do it at speed. Assuming you were sensible and weren't speeding to start with, in weather like that, you'll feel when you hit the shoulder. You shouldn't lose control. Slowly take your car down the shoulder to a side road. Get out of the way of everyone else. Then re-assess. Flying...there's no shoulder.

[@Nobodyneedsabodyanymore]

Good advice. Most people are idiots though and wouldnt be able to do this.

[@mouzerofficial]

The visual comparison at the end was a great touch. Pilots really didn't stand much of a chance, sad all around.

[@CuriousPilot90]

Very sad, a difficult situation to be in, it seems that too much attention was given to the solving of the problem rather than flying the aircraft, but that is easy to say when I am not there.

[@AlanMydland-fq2vs]

push tha ac button back in, what do u have to loose. fly partical panel

[@edgardovillacorte7012]

With the lack of visual reference would a low tech carpenters level be able to aid the pilot in leveling the airplane's flight?

[@Davidcallard]

​@@edgardovillacorte7012That's a question tha I have speculated about myself in other situations such as the Air France 777 crew that lost their orientation owing to the loss of basic flight instruments because of an iced up pitot. Would a simple plumbob on a string be useful in this situation? No doubt the experts are rolling around in mirth about now but I can take it,

[@giggiddy]

​@@edgardovillacorte7012Great question. Watching the simple physics that bring a lot of these planes down. I often wonder if simple measuring tools would provide enough low tech measurements to get a plane on the ground safely.

[@jamesgraham6122]

I had exactly this situation climbing out of Bucharest while positioning one of our KingAir B200s from Afghanistan back to the US, The aircraft had been virtually unused, parked up outside through two winters and summers at Kabul.. was known to be experiencing multiple electrical issues. The original ferrying crew, 2 pilots, had experienced flap control issues, diverted to Bucharest and ran out of time.. I was sent out alone to complete the ferry flight once the problem had been rectified. Departing, I was flying the SID which takes me over the Carpathian mountains when ATC asked me to recycle my transponder as it was no longer transmitting in Mode C.. While doing that, other instruments began failing, within a minute I'd lost all radios and Nav instruments while in IMC, ( clouds), over the mountains. With no HSI (Artificial Horizon), I was dependent on my secondary instruments to keep straight and level. Knowing that the high terrain was not too far beneath me and having no exact idea of my location, not wanting to go barreling into Bucharest, a busy international airport with no radio and no transponder, one in the log-book I was happily able to enter myself once back on the ground... One issue was, as I was to learn later, Romania at that time was not long freed from the old Soviet Union, civilian airports were virtually non-existent, only 27 airports in the entire country.. I found Ploiesti.. a very, very, short runway for a KingAir 200, a King air with no operable flaps.. used only for basic training utilising Cessna 172s.

[@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse]

Oh dear, that sounds terrifying! Thanks for sharing.

[@CuriousPilot90]

That's an incredible story, thank you for sharing that. I think the lesson here is to fly the aircraft first. Use what information you have available to you to aid your recovery. The part that is impossible to explore here is the shock or disbelief potentially experienced by the pilot when the autopilot disconnected and the aircraft instruments were not matching the position of the aircraft. It also didn't help that the ground level was at 5,600ft. Then again, if I remember rightly, Kabal is at a similar altitude! Well done.

[@jamesgraham6122]

@@CuriousPilot90 Kabul is at almost 7000ft, but this event was while following the SID out of Bucharest, Romania, that particular SID has me climbing to the north west over the Carpathian mountains.. Flying the SID I was simply following a route and had no clear idea of just how far along that route I was into the climbing terrain.. Having turned around I had to commence a descent, but while only being able to guestimate at what rate according to an estimate of how far I'd progressed into the mountains. It wasn't too difficult, I simply had to balance that guesswork so as not to impact the terrain or intrude on Bucharest airspace and conflict with their traffic.

[@moiraatkinson]

@@jamesgraham6122you didn’t get into an overbank situation? Being in a whiteout and losing your artificial horizon, it must be difficult to know how level you are ….. unless you take your hands off everything I suppose and hope the plane prefers being level to flying on its side 🤔. I don’t know how you’re expected to recover from a spiral, no matter how much altitude you’ve got.

[@jamesgraham6122]

@@moiraatkinson Flying on secondary instruments is part of the training for instrument ratings..certainly here in the UK. The TBI should keep your wings more or less level, the compass will show that you're turning, the VSI that you're climbing or descending.. it obviously demands more concentration and needs to be practiced from time.. but it pays off.

[@scofab]

Even though the pilot in the right seat wasn't certified on the King Air he must certainly have seen what was happening on his working instruments. And despite not being certificated he certainly could/should have notified the PIC of what he was seeing, and almost certainly should have been able to regain control of the aircraft, especially with the cooperation of the PIC. RIP, and well done, thanks again.

[@NicholasAndre1]

What numbskull put the backup instruments in front of the copilot on a single pilot capable plane

[@PhilAndersonOutside]

This baffles me too. Did he not once look at the attitude indicator? Or did he simply not believe it was properly working and instead believed his "sense of feel"?

[@gmill7911]

There's a small memorial where the crash occurred near Strasburg, CO. I would stop by each time I went out to visit my father. I did my primary flight training at the same Jefferson County Airport where this final flight originated. "Jeffco" as the airport was commonly called, has now been renamed; given a title that is utterly meaningless in Colorado - "Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Regional Airport." Excellent video.

[@CuriousPilot90]

‘Remember the 10’ I believe the memorial states. I saw that the airport was renamed, I guess it helps to identify it over all the other airports near Rocky Mountains in Colorado. Thank you for sharing.

[@willj1598]

I have no idea why the renamed it. It was Jeffco most of my life. I agree the name is pointless. I think it may have something to do with the whole deal when they carved Broomfield out of Jefferson County, but I'm not sure which county it is actually in now. I didn't live there until after the accident, but I used to live a few minutes from the accident scene and the memorial.

[@Maestrohbill]

Been there twice. It’s sad, surreal. Went a few months ago and in 2004.

[@MiaMichele9696]

Thank you for another great video, tragic incident, but as always, you're very clear and concise...good qualities to have as a pilot 😜 Also, no need to apologize for the time lapse between videos, you always give us stellar content. 😊

[@CuriousPilot90]

Hi @MiaMichele9696, thank you very much :)

[@emmyjj5612]

@@CuriousPilot90I agree with her! And thank you for changing the font & how much time we were given to read things! Having the link to the NTSB report was neat as well.

[@michaelmavity8008]

I had a failed inverter in a C90A one night in IMC in SOCAL, scared me pretty good. Lots of flags, red X’s, and AP disconnect warning. I used the vacuum horizon on the RH side to keep the wings level and after maybe 10 seconds the inverter came back to life and the panel returned to normal except the gyros had to spool back up. WARNING was flashing but no INVERTER light after it came back on. SOCAL was calling because my heading and altitude were wandering around. Decided that it must be the inverter so I switched and told SOCAL what was going on, got a climb to VMC. Destination airport was VFR. Next time I’ll immediately switch inverters and declare an emergency.

[@CuriousPilot90]

I love hearing these stories, it’s so important to share and learn from, it’s the same reason for covering GA incidents. First and foremost, fly the aircraft. Great work and thanks for sharing.

[@edgardovillacorte7012]

In case all the high tech instruments failed could a simple low tech carpenters level have aided the pilot to level the aircraft?

[@Davidcallard]

@@edgardovillacorte7012 or a makeshift pĺumbob?

[@The_ZeroLine]

No you didn’t. I was there (hiding on your wing). It was an outverter failure.

[@charlesstiles342]

The cause of the failure is believed to be the loss of both inverters. I went for KingAir type training in 2003 and they gave me that same scenario in the sim because many KingAir experts knew that this pilot probably did not do a full preflight check of each inverter-you only use one inverter on each flight but you choose which one after you start engines and then power up the rest of your electricals. If using the proper checklist and flows you are supposed to verify function of each inverter separately but you have to wait for the relay to move from one to the other after moving the switch-about two seconds-or you will miss that one inverter is bad. My CAE SimuFlite mentors are convinced he did not do that properly, took off with one inverter inoperative then the other failed in flight…then goodbye AC powered instruments and components…

[@BobthePilot]

It would seam to me that the attitude indicator on either side should run independent of the other. As a backup to both of them failing you would resort to the needle ball or turn coordinator. I believe in this video it was stated both PIC and SIC attitude indicators failed. That's unlikely. Time is of the essence before control is not recoverable for the PIC to determine which is providing the correct information. I haven't reviewed the final report by the NTSB or validated if both attitude indicators were powered by the same source.

[@monicarenee7949]

That seems like a pretty bad design flaw but I’m no pilot

[@ZalexMusic]

Hi, I love this channel and have been subbed for months. My suggestion is that you try to avoid the Mentour Pilot thing with using unnecessary stock footage. For example, the meeting stock footage around 1:10 and onward was very distracting. I don't need to see what the OSU Flight Department might have looked like while planning their flights. I would rather just see the plane and hear your voice, even if nothing is happening. Just my two cents, I appreciate you

[@CuriousPilot90]

Hi Zalex, I always welcome feedback, thank you for sharing that. I started to use stock footage to avoid and break up generic aircraft footage in the cruise and to try and connect the story together a little better. Perhaps I will try to use it less or find better ways to connect the story. :D

[@ZalexMusic]

@@CuriousPilot90 I get it and I respect your thinking. You have me as a subscriber either way. Appreciate you!

[@taproom113]

@@CuriousPilot90 If in reassessing your approach and methods, you choose to use your own image, as does Mentor Pilot, please try to limit your animated hand gestures. MP is a very competent pilot and KZbinr ... but his over use of his hand gestures in explaining his points is very distracting and annoying. ^v^

Taproom... You complete melon

[@christinahighsmith4453]

Obviously Mentour Pilot is doing something right wi the the amount of subs he has. I don’t recall him using stock footage either. Perhaps in some of his older videos? Now his videos are made with entire graphics teams customizing the illustrations for his videos. I think his presentations are perfect.

[@MDPHD32]

Chilling reminder of what happened to me 30 years ago in a snowstorm at night. My distraction was pitot tube icing during decent and approach to landing, causing a bright flashing gear unsafe light and loud horn. Also lost airspeed and instruments. Only here to write about this because I broke out at 4oo feet with time enough to stop the turn and decent. Lesson, never be distracted in IFR, always fly the plane streight and level as best as possible. Important to practice partial instrument at night, even if it comes down to just a magnetic compass and flashlight.

[@UnknownUser-j3n]

A pilot who cant differentiate between decent and descent?

[@eltadeu]

This kind of failure is very delicate and is a reminder to keep in mind: no matter the failure, fly the plane first and foremost. Very sad.

[@edgardovillacorte7012]

With lack of visual reference and instrument failure would a low tech carpenters level be able to help the pilot level the aircrafts flight

[@eltadeu]

@@edgardovillacorte7012 The carpenter's level wouldn't work either. To understand this, just consider an example. If you take a can that's half full of water , and you tie a string to it and start spinning the can very quickly, the water will stay stuck to the bottom of the can in the same way, because the centripetal force would overcome the G-force. I’m not familiarized with this aircraft, but as far as I know it’s a very good aircraft and I suppose it must have two attitude indicators, one for each pilot, and supplied by different electrical sources (ex: one AC electrical buss and another by the battery DC bus), to prevent a total loss of attitude orientation. As I said, it’s a very tricky situation, and you must first look for the alternate source of attitude orientation and fly the airplane safely, and after this execute the correct check list. IMPORTANT NOTE: I’m not telling that the Capitain or the First Officer didn’t have tried to do the correct applicable procedure. Nobody was there to suppose this, ok!?

[@drew65sep]

Being that my immediate family are all Marshall graduates (I attended, but quit school for a pretty good job opportunity), I can relate to the overwhelming sense of loss a school, and a community, feels when a horrid event like this happens. One of my first memories is that of Roger Mudd on the evening national news broadcast delivering the story that the Marshall football team's plane had gone down and there were no survivors. Team, coaches, and boosters...all gone. Huntington WV hurt for a long time, and still does. But, I was a freshman at Marshall and got to experience their first winning season since the plane crash...almost felt like things had gone full circle. Life will go on and things will eventually get better.

[@kristi7690]

I remember this well. I grew up in south Tulsa but was living in Lawrence,KS at that time. Every time KU plays OSU in Stillwater Bill Self takes the team to the "Remember The Ten" memorial.

[@cdtaylor7732]

As an OSU grad who graduated from their flight program, this is a case study we have to study. One thing we also emphasize now is relying not only on primary instruments, but also your secondary and tertiary instruments. We strive to make sure we never have something like this again.

[@matthewnoaks4759]

What class did you study this in? I also graduated from OSU with aerospace administration and operation but always wondered why i never did a study on it?

[@ErikssonTord_2]

This was even more common in the early days of flying, when only a turn-and-bank indicator and and altimeter was available, plus a speedometer, occasionally.

[@GeorgeGalanis1010]

I did some flight instructing in sims for some quite experienced pilots back in the 1980s and 90s. We'd throw limited panel scenarios at them. Most pilots would recover quite well. But there were some whose first reaction was "the simulator is broken". Even though the Attitude Indicator was flagged and reading contrary to turn indicators, directional gyros and a second, or even third attitude indicator, they'd still follow the faulty attitude indicator in front of them all the way to the ground. It wasn't as if they didn't know the principles before that. For some reason the failed attitude indicator in front of them was so compelling they would ignore contra-indications from other instruments. It needed at least one scenario like that for them to learn the lesson and not make the same mistake twice.

[@josephcameron530]

Great presentation. Terrible tragedy. Thank you.

[@flymachine]

That stock footage of the ‘pilots in a meeting’ is hilarious - I’ve worked for several charters and worked in aviation my whole life and never ever have I seen such a sight - I’d almost certainly fall over laughing if I did - good video though - RIP

[@dombrown34]

DEI pre 9/11

[@TireSlayer55]

I couldn't help but notice how bizarre that scene was 😂

[@PaulWhitcomb-ty6md]

They were not pilots. 1:07

[@Dovelunalove]

yep! usually they are beer belly, unfit, balding pasty skin men with angry scowls and red hats. it was shocking to see attractive looking happy people in that clip!😅

[@Dovelunalove]

yep! usually they are beer belly, unfit, balding pasty skin men with angry scowls and red hats. it was shocking to see attractive looking happy people in that clip!😅

[@dodoubleg2356]

The 2nd pilot, despite not being familiar with the King Air, should’ve clearly been able to see his working attitude indicator. The PIC should’ve used it also.

[@johnstudd4245]

Unfortunately through out the years there have been numerous incidents of the flight crew not recognizing instrument failure and/or not following proper procedure to deal with it.

[@dodoubleg2356]

@@johnstudd4245 yes it’s unfortunate.

[@jamesofallthings3684]

Try watching the video.

[@edgardovillacorte7012]

With the lack of visual reference would a low tech carpenters level be able to help the pilot level the airplane's flight?

[@yellowrose0910]

@@edgardovillacorte7012 (Some?) gliders use strings on the outside center of the windshield as coordination devices.

[@jamesanderson2176]

It's incomprehensible that a single-point failure could take out so many critical instruments. I hope this incident created a requirement that there be a backup power mode for these systems in modern aircraft.

[@BigSlim1919]

I was a kid when this happened and it really hit home. Dan Lawson played basketball at a community college in my hometown and was a really good player. I watched every game that he played at Mott. I was looking forward to seeing him play at Ok State and was devastated when I saw the article in my local newspaper. I’ll never forget wanting to know what went wrong. Thanks for this video.

[@ts440s]

Sad case, the King Air is a bulletproof plane. I would think AC failure would be a redundant system.

[@Paiadakine]

I think there are 2 inverters on the king air.

[@tvb1020]

Bulletproof maybe. But if it isnt groundproof, it aint matter.

[@k0r0e0s]

Great explanations! Subbed.

[@treaceeames4697]

As a retired navy officer i can say these videos are great I flew through fierce and unforgiving conditions props to anyone who experience flying

[@lorigarza9971]

I understand that people get busy. No apology necessary but appreciated. I just look forward to your videos.

[@jimmbbo]

Well presented video. The vacuum driven ADI on the right side provided accurate attitude information. The right seat occupant must have seen the attitude going haywire but did not advise the PIC? Makes me go, "Hmmm...."

[@CuriousPilot90]

Me too, it’s what initially made me think hypoxia was involved. But also if it did play out this way, perhaps a shock and startle effect, then the confusion between the two instruments not matching. It didn’t take long for this flight to go from normal to extreme and maybe that was all the distraction they needed?

[@CherylWright-k7r]

What a tragedy. Funny thing I am the daughter of 2 pilots and watch a TON of these shows and now that my youngest son is going to school to be an aircraft mechanic and I help him study for his tests it is putting a WHOLE new prespecive on all these. keep up the good work these are very educational videos.

[@antoniobranch]

"It's said the moment your gyroscopic instruments fail, you cover those instruments and then fly partial panel; which would be the airspeed indicator or altimeter for 'pitch,' and magnetic compass or turn coordinator for 'roll.'

[@kentbetts]

Why didn't the pilot switch seats and use the working artificial horizon? blah.

[@antoniobranch]

@kentbetts He probably thought the co-pilot's attitude indicator was erroneous. He must have compared the two. He should have crossed checked with the other instruments.

[@PatrickDuffy-u3s]

I believe there's a mechanical attitude indicator in case of electronics failure on the King Air. To say they had no instruments is more than likely false. Even your animation of the cockpit shows the mechanical attitude indicator on the co-pilots cockpit panel working. Something similar to this happened to Kobe Briant's helicopter pilot , his mistake was looking outside when he should have been looking at the instruments and he suffered spacial disorientation.

[@kentbetts]

The vid clearly states that the right hand attitude indicator was powered by 28 v, not mechanical.

[@PatrickDuffy-u3s]

Watch the Sim, it clearly shows the mechanical attitude indicator working

[@erintyres3609]

If the pilot had said, "Your controls. Maintain level flight.", then the copilot beside him could have probably kept them flying while the problem was worked out. Although not qualified to fly the King Air, he could have probably focused on just that one task and done it. Or perhaps the pilot could have looked over at the copilot's instruments and used them to maintain level flight, while the copilot worked through the relevant checklists.

[@daviddavis3389]

Yes. Coulda, shoulda,..& woulda, whoopty Whoo Whoo Whoo and whoo! 😅😅😢.

[@kentbetts]

@@daviddavis3389 Actually using a working artificial horizon when available seems to be a necessary course of action.

[@almorris171]

Problem is, the pilot apparently thought they were diving which unfortunately wasn't the case. Once the plane went into the spiral there was probably excessive G forces on them. It's a horrific position to be in.

[@terryboehler5752]

Bill Teegins was a friend from elementary school. He displayed his genuine fair play disposition even as a child.

[@lordvadore1960]

It's a really great video, very detailed. As a former private pilot and an aircraft enthusiast, having retired some years ago from a major aircraft manufacturer, I found that I thought that the PIC would use the co-pilots attitude indicator for attitude reference. If there is one thing I remember from my flight training. It's, avaigate, navigate, communicate. Fly the airplane first, navigate second, and communicate last. That said, may they RIP. An unfortunate event that caused everyone on board their lives. 😢

[@CuriousPilot90]

Thank you, and that is exactly right, I do think that there was a heavy focus on trying to solve the issue which meant that flying the aircraft came second. That being said, there is a lot that isn't known about the actions of the pilots, there are many other factors that could have played a part here.

[@frankthetank8050]

My mom used always to say: “Good things are not cheap and cheap things are not good!” Remembering this is gonna make your life much much easier

[@Jimmietwotimes]

I had forgotten about this. Very nicely done. Subbed.

[@michaelbruchas6663]

My friend, Bill Tietgins, died in this crash. He was a Tulsa TV sportscaster - doing radio coverage for OSU at the Colorado game. It was normal for hitching rides with alumni or charter team planes.

[@krmgradiojoe]

@@michaelbruchas6663 I can’t believe I’m older than him now. It’s been 23 years, Bill was my best friend. I miss him all the time.

[@Thornspyre81]

I moved to OKC 6 years ago and never heard about this, thanks!

[@MILD-BILL]

VERY INFORMATIONAL ! I ENJOYED WATCHING

[@TheLincolnshireFlyer]

Thank you for sharing

[@aaronvaughn1954]

Feel like you could have a physical tool, like a level bubble to default to if you have spatial disorientation and could at least manual correct a bit before you end up stalling or spiraling.

[@DanzRdy]

Been working on fixed wing jets since mid 1990's. Every single jet I've worked on had a standby gyro, why the King Air 200 didn't have one, even in 2001 is a mystery to me.

[@kentbetts]

Good point, except that they had a working 28v artificial horizon.

[@shawncrump7924]

Copilot’s vac driven was the backup. Also the DC turn and bank couples with IAS is considered an acceptable backup under Part 23, which the BE200 was certified under. Part 25 (the jets you’re familiar with) requires the third attitude gyro with a :30 independent backup battery.

[@misarthim6538]

This is sad and almost inexcusable pilot failure. Sure, loss of AC powered instruments sucks, but the plane was perfectly capable of continuing safe flight and the pilot had access to all necessary information to continue safely in IMC using backup instruments. Transitioning to backup instruments when there's a primary instrument failure is basic stuff. Similarly the attempted recovery was improperly executed, over-stressing the airframe and leading to inflight disintegration. According to NTSB, in previous examinations, pilot exhibited an attitude to 'lock' on a problem, so likely the pilot failed to fly the plane while troubleshooting the AC failure and then yanked the plane during recovery, breaking it apart.

[@JM-fb4kz]

I remember this well. I sat next to Nate Flemming in Western Civ class the semester before the crash. Didn’t even know he was on the team at the time. Then there was an article in the O’Colly about him that’s how I found out he was on the team. Then of course the accident happened. Such a terrible event. #remembertheten

[@weasel1139]

So sad that disorientation kept them looking at the turn indicator. That is not controlled by AC power and is a simple gyro and bubble....would've told them that they weren't flying level...

[@garycapley8686]

We visited the memorial site on a cross country trip a few years ago. Sad.

[@johnbabcock2925]

Great Vidoe! The only thing is What would have caused the AC power to fail? Could they have reset a breaker to restore it? Also, seem like there should be a backup AC power if the systems it drives are that critical -- battery, or inverter driven off an alternator. Something. . Seems like there are some big aircraft design flaws at play - lack of redundancy, lack of alert to pilot, lack of simple breaker reset.

[@moiraatkinson]

It must have been difficult when in effect there was just one pilot. Looking at your picture, it “felt” wings level until you removed the cloud. It’s quite shocking to realise how far off level an aircraft can get, with nobody realising anything is wrong. They may have spent too long attempting to troubleshoot, but in their eyes they were at 23k feet (ie high enough) and flying level. Sadly the second pilot wasn’t trained enough or experienced enough to notice his instruments showing a descent. Often in accidents you can see they’re a result of an unqualified/drunk/careless pilot but this felt very tragic knowing the pilots were professional, responsible and flying legally. If it was me, I’d want a new Cirrus with a “wings level” button which I’d press every minute in a whiteout. Why didn’t the plane shout “bank angle!” at them? I’ll read your link on illusions and I really look forward to your videos. These are incidents I haven’t heard about before and your channel is one of my favourites 😊.

[@CuriousPilot90]

I think you are right. They were at 23,000ft which gave them the airspace and time to troubleshoot, although ground level was at 5,600ft. It is hard to know, but as soon as the focus became on the issue and not flying the aircraft, that is where the problems really started. Again, it is not known exactly what the actions of the pilots were, it is speculation based on the flight path of the aircraft.

[@moiraatkinson]

@@CuriousPilot90I’m still curious why the plane didn’t warn them of the bank angle though. I thought that would have been standard in a plane that size?

[@jetcox6760]

@@moiraatkinson maybe the bank sensor or alarm ran on the AC? idk...good question though

[@CuriousPilot90]

The bank angle annunciation is provided by the Terrain Avoidance Warning System (TAWS) or Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System (EGPWS) I'm not 100% sure if this was fitted on this King Air 200. But even if it was the, TAWS system uses the radio altimeter for input which was not operational with the AC system failed. So it may have been that even if the TAWS/EGPWS system was fitted, the failure would have affected it.

[@moiraatkinson]

Thank you both, that hadn’t occurred to me 😊. I wonder if it occurred to the crew, or were they more relaxed, thinking they’d be warned about a high bank angle?

[@terrancestodolka4829]

Your speculation and analysis of this seem to be spot on... As with the data and the possibility of what happened... The saddest part is when the information about the instrumentation seems not to be fully reconciled with the perceived information... And that the division between perceived and actual can be quite different and disorienting...

[@CuriousPilot90]

Exactly! In this instance, this discrepancy, (I believe) caused enough of a distraction and delay in the correct response. By the time their perceived position and actual one mirrored each other, the aircraft was in such an upset position it was impossible to recover.

[@andrewhutchinson5627]

Could they have a glass of water on the dash of the plane in this circumstance to determine which way they are flying?

[@Everythingis22]

U of Evansville lost its basketball team, coaches, etc in a 1977 crash.

[@conniefoust7480]

I was thinking the same thing. I am from Evansville.

[@tiemji]

Thanks for the video and for the insights!

[@PETER7700S]

I lived in Colorado and am a CU grad. It was sad. I always liked OSU. No matter how good either their our our football or basketball team was OSU played a good tough game. Glad to be back in the BIG 12 with 6 of the BIG 8 teams.

[@robertcarson2228]

Back in the day when gauges were analog basic instrument flight training required recovery from unusual attitudes using needle-ball-airspeed. We had to get out of "death spirals" with the turn and bank indicator and air speed indicator; granted we did have altimeter and rate of climb indicator. We did this in old jet fighters such as F-9f Cougar, and F-11f Tiger. Even the old F-8u Crusader would lose electrical power, of course the F-8 had a RAT to help a little. I would think Instructor pilots and rated Air transport pilots would have similar requirements before they could go all weather flying. What happened to mandatory basic airwork?

[@RandyMabusedJW]

I heard a different report. I heard that the toggle switch was left in the start position and not generator position, hence only Nicaraguan batteries were powering the lights and many instruments. Nicads go dead all at once without warning when discharged, hence in a brief second everything went dark in the cockpit. Btw, this toggle switch was not spring loaded, which in my opinion should have been required.

[@ai5dd]

I live in Stillwater, Oklahoma and remember when this happened. Thanks!

[@mikeshort8879]

I live in Boulder and my son and I went to the game, which the Cowboys lost. 1967 OSU Engineering grad.

[@nikital7541]

FYI, in the U.S. you don’t request engine / APU start from ATC.

[@MyTube4Utoo]

An excellent video and the summation seems very likely.

[@charvakkarpe]

A magnetic compass ball mounted to the center pillar would have helped tremendously. As an R44 pilot, we use it more to determine our attitude and therefore airspeed, but it also gives heading indication without needing AC or DC power. Seems like a failure in aircraft design, to lose so many instruments and not have a standard operating procedure and alarm when AC power is lost.

[@Captain101-x1o]

Only if they turned the windshield heat (anti ice) off. With the electric windshield heat on, the ball compass mounted between the windscreens is useless. They were in icing conditions so windshield heat would have been on.

[@randallbutler2736]

The thought of not having a redundant system on something so critical as a power inverter, especially one that runs such crucial equipment, is frightening. Was this corrected or recommended on new or existing aircraft?

[@vindiesel1469]

Almost like our Internet based financial dependence vulnerability look what just happened globally...thinking back when I worked in a restaurant and the computer went down we broke out the calculator and hand wrote the ticket manually. We currently have a point and click system generation without any way, or knowledge of how we got here.

[@jdhflys]

I was flying the Razorback’s from LSU the night this happened. We learned of the crash from the Air Traffic Controllers. RIP…

[@tonylam9548]

The pilot in command seems to have lots of hours, but lack some recent re currency simulator training that could have prevented this accident. I am surprised the co-pilot although not King Air rated , was still a reasonably experienced pilot , he did nothing. Pilots were taught spiral dives and how to get out of it even in basic training. Hard to believe with 2 pilots , marginal weather and a text book equipment failure can cause such an accident.

[@CuriousPilot90]

It’s what I find surprising too Tony, it’s what originally pushed me towards the idea of hypoxia. As there isn’t a cockpit voice recorder, it isn’t known what was said between the pilots. I’ve seen other incidents where the pilots become startled by the shock of the changing circumstances and perhaps that played its part in this one. The mystery of this incident is only deepened as it appears that enough instruments were operational to make this a fairly benign failure. And like you say, the pilot in the right hand seat, although not competent on the King Air, should have been able to assist. Perhaps the difference in the instruments created the confusion and enough of a distraction to allow for the aircraft to get into such an upset position.

[@yellowrose0910]

​@@CuriousPilot90 What would have contributed if it did at all would be the 2nd pilot, not certified in the King Air, would not have known which instruments were powered by what, so if he saw conflicting data between his and the PIC's instruments he wouldn't have been sure which one to trust. However, the PIC's instruments would probably have just turned off and/or flagged (there's a little red flag that drops across the view during some instrument failures) during a power loss and so it would have been reasonable to assume the 2nd pilot's instruments (that were still working) were probably valid. What's interesting is the design, where some versions of the same instrument were AC and some were DC depending if they were on the left or the right. I wonder if that was intentional for safety or just because the newer 'better' instruments on the left took AC and the older instruments on the right took DC. Would have been nice if there were a way to change busses or power one bus from the other so if you lost AC you could use DC as backup and visa-versa. I missed it: was it covered why they think they lost AC power?

[@427SuperSnake1]

They had everything they needed to keep it stable. Magnetic Compass, VSI, Air Speed Indicator. This is why we practice partial panel when getting the instrument rating.

[@wek1958]

I would include the turn & slip indicator (we old timers called it the "needle and ball'). The video indicated that this instrument was operating properly. Needle, ball and airspeed is all that all that a competent pilot needs to control attitude of the aircraft when flying partial panel.

[@texasgolfer1013]

Pardon my ignorance but I have often wondered why pilots don't simply attach a plumb bob like string with a small weight to the roof of the pilot's cabin to observe the planes orientation when they have no external visual references? It seems like a pilot could easily observe the motion of the plumb bob and recognize how the plane is oriented as it flies. If the string shifts to the right, the plane is turning right. If the string moves towards the front of the plane the plane is diving. If the string leans left, the plane is turning left and so on. Wouldn't this work?

[@bittnerbs]

Great video!

[@portagepete1]

When temp and dew point are within 4 degrees you have fog here only 2 degrees apart so heavy fog..

[@BridMhor]

What I don’t understand is why doesn’t the pilot feel himself going sideways by his weight pulling on the seatbelt. Which would have to feel uncomfortable surely.

[@alfredomarquez9777]

You need to read a lot more on "spatial disorientation"...

[@BridMhor]

@@alfredomarquez9777 I understand spatial disorientation. It affects your brain's perception. But there are still physical forces like straining against the seatbelt that must give a clue that things aren't right.

[@syitiger9072]

@@BridMhordo u feel when an airplane turns while you’re flying as a passenger?

[@stanglobo96]

I remember going down a corkscrew waterslide and it started to feel like I was going straight. I thought this is what makes VFR pilots crash in IFR weather.

[@otfinoskiotfinoski8856]

Maybe this is a dumb question but in case of instrument failure in white-out conditions could a simple carpenters level tell the pilots of they are or arent banking?

[@viscouscasual]

No, and that is the exact cause of this. Only the gyros could detect that wings are slightly not leveled. Due to centripedal forces in the turn fluid in the level and fluid in your inner ear would tell you that you are flying straight, however that is not the case. That's why flying vfr into imc is dangerous

[@otfinoskiotfinoski8856]

@@viscouscasual thanks for the info, i suspected it couldnt be that simple a solution.

[@AlMount]

Wouldn't something hanging from the upper center (like a rearview mirror in a car) helped with their orientation?

[@fishbone470]

Great video. I am not a pilot, but I am curious if technology like the RAT is available for smaller aircraft like this where it could provide power to the coms so the pilot could maybe talk to ATC and get direction and speed etc. I've watched a lot of these videos and it's amazing. How many is incidents take place in bad weather like this. Very interesting video.

[@CuriousPilot90]

Hi! I don't believe RAT's are available for smaller aircraft. In this instance the aircraft still had power, only the AC part of the system failed but the comms were still operational. Also, even if there is a complete electrical failure there will be a emergency standby instrument that has its own power source for about 30 mins. It is odd that they didn't transmit to ATC but I think it all happened so fast and they didn't have time. With the solution for the crew if there is a complete electrical failure and no instruments at all in weather where you can't see. There will be a magnetic compass (This is usually obsolete because of the magnetic fields the electrical systems generate but with them failed it will work correctly) this would help with heading and for level/speed you would set known power settings which will give you an approximate speed. Ideally you want to become visual as soon as possible.

[@fishbone470]

@@CuriousPilot90 That makes senes. Thanks!

[@oscarb9139]

ATC can't help you in this situation. You have to have attitude information to be able to fly.

[@peterlewellyn2389]

When your AC power fails you have warnings. The pilot knew his attitude indicator failed and all he had to do was tell his copilot take control since his attitude indicator still functioned. As a copilot if I saw in my attitude indicator that the pilot was entering a steep bank, I would be yelling “what are you doing” and grab the controls and level the aircraft. I would. Not be watching the pilot try to kill me and be as quiet as a mouse. They could have ve declared an emergency and have ATC given them a radar assist ed landing. This should n ever have happened if they had two pilots each qualified in the aircraft.

[@pauldow1648]

Would a emergency dc to ac converter back up help ? System analysis ought suggest a more reliable ac system or adequate backup so critical monitors are not lost.

[@aerotube7291]

Cool vid, will check out more!

[@Lega11yblonde]

Given that the air density in Colorado is likely very different than Oklahoma I wonder if did the pilots have any experience in dealing with that? Also wasn't that good icing conditions?

[@kurtblasser]

No mention here of cornerstones of aviation for loss of instruments and backup and primary references. Compass, airspeed indicator can keep you straight and level. Difficult for sure, but during instrument training we trained to use secondary instruments with partial panel loss. Thanks to my instructor! He drilled me relentlessly.

[@ajmomoho]

Why not use the other inverter?

[@KimLind]

Great video. So informativ, so much input. Reminds about same scene/similar too what happened too N72EX, on 26/1 - 2021. The lost of 9 people in an Heli accident in L.A. Bad weather and fog/mist. U explained so well. After See more and more accident video on KZbin, many with deadly ending. History makes me wanna know more. Just too learn more of things from they who knows what they are talking about. Here in Sweden air accidents don't happens so often. Subscribe and find a lot too learn more about. Well done.

[@TheAMVDJ]

Are there any "gadgets" that don't rely on electricity that can represent level wings? I understand that the forces of a plane can make something feel level even though they are flying in a spiral. Or perhaps some independent instrument that has it's own internal power supply that can determine pitch, roll, altitude something akin to the old TomToms GPS devices for automobiles that can be used in AC power failure like what happened in this crash?

[@jediknight4316]

Would a 2$ bubble level fixed to the dash have prevented this?

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

No, why do you think your coffee spills when you drive around a bend even when the road is flat?

[@jediknight4316]

@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 nah centrifugal forces would act differently on a cup of coffee vs. a bubble/spirit level. Just looked it up. Turns out some aircraft do indeed have built in spirit levels

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

@@jediknight4316 you’re talking about a turn coordinator, it doesn’t do what you think it does kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYTZeaaHj8mAkJosi=o5-5zKhSueNEVK8J

[@jediknight4316]

@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 I admit I'm not a pilot and have limited knowledge on this subject. Thanks for the link

[@mvb819]

A BE20 has a highly redundant electrical power system. When an inverter goes off-line a big red annunciator illuminates on the panel. Another big red annunciator would warn the pilot that the autopilot was disengaged. The AC power meter would show zero frequency and zero volts. Switch to the second inverter and the autopilot and AC flight instruments should come back on-line immediately. This was not a situation of "nothing they could do."

[@PaulLascari]

I am surprised there wasn't a backup AI in such an expensive aircraft. Also, the Co-pilot with the working altimeter in front of him had to notice that loss of altitude. Recovering the plane with just a turn and bank indicator is difficult.

[@barbaramonaco105]

This accident occurred 25 yrs ago.

[@PaulLascari]

@@barbaramonaco105that doesn’t change my comment. Backup systems have been around for much longer than that.

[@ReesieandLee]

So heartbreaking 💔 There was an athletic team (football maybe?) that took a flight from Kansas (WSU) to Utah ( USU) in 1970 and died in a box canyon they couldn’t climb out of when the pilots decided to show the kids the mountains after refueling in CO. I think.

[@Pensivata]

So many small twin engine planes go down in IMC - precisely via spatial disorientation. Why don't they have an alternative (i.e. redundancy) artificial horizon which operates independent of the main one (perhaps one which is not linked to the gyro). How difficult can that be with today's technology? Sonars in the wing tips or something..

[@CuriousPilot90]

There are many redundancies available, for example in this instance, the right hand seat instruments were operating with DC power, there is usually a standby flight instrument with its own power source can can be used. I think the issue in this case, was the fixation on the problem and not focusing on flying the aircraft first. That being said, this is only speculation and things went from normal to bad extremely quickly. I have seen incidents in the past where it takes a moment for crews to comprehend what has happened, usually through a shock or startle effect.

[@getyoursupervisor8519]

Simple answer: money. FAR 23 aircraft are not required to have a standby horizon with a battery backup. I have seen one B200 with that equipment and that was a former Japanese Airlines Trainer IIRC. I have about 4000hrs in KingAir B200s. I asked my boss then to buy a standby horizon for our aircraft, but that would have set us back by roughly 50.000USD at the time. My best guess is that they now are cheaper still to the best of my knowledge they are not mandatory.

[@BeddGBugga]

1:08 gotta give it up to the brave women in this scene for risking their lives to record it for our entertainment. I hope they made it out of that situation okay.

[@emmyjj5612]

I've found that, when a whiteboard (or its clear equivalent) comes out in a departmental meeting, no one makes it out okay. They may have survived physically, but I'm sure they suffered psychological trauma.

[@randombutler]

Is there some kind of wearable feedback system which can detect and help correct/reset a spatial disorientation incident?

[@kenclark9888]

In the US you don’t contact ATC for engine start. Also the King Air has a back up ADI for use in situations like that

[@doubleaught7540]

I had a class on flight in high school rotc and zi seem to remember there was a slip indicator of a ball im a curved groove...isnt this what the flight coordination its supposed to remedy through simplicity? Or has the digital world replaced it with a digital representation? Just asking , seems like we've changed to digital and removed the simple ...tragic and sad.

[@bradsanders407]

The attitude indicator would be even if you were at a steep bank nose down?

[@denverbraughler3948]

Yes. A functioning attitude indicator works even nose down. It is a gyroscopic instrument. There will be a little blue on the left or right even when the rest is brown. Wings are level when whatever blue there is appears evenly between left and right.

[@edgardovillacorte7012]

@@denverbraughler3948 in case the attitude indicator malfunctions would a simple low tech carpenters level aid the pilot in leveling the aircraft?

[@Haaaawaiian]

All the pilot had to do was look over to the right seat’s instrument panel and hand fly them either out of IMC or to the NRST airport. Sad

[@JonCampos-kh2bw]

Sounds like the Buddy Holly plane crash. There’s speculation that the pilot thought he was ascending when in fact he was descending. It was also snowing that night.

[@josh2961]

What a gripping story! Thank you for this. I think hypoxia seems plausible too, the oxygen mask didn’t deploy but maybe that is why they all had issues? If there was a hole in the plane, could it still keep flying? A tragedy nonetheless. Fantastic work!

[@CuriousPilot90]

Thanks Josh, I think this is a fair point, and like I said in the video, something that crossed my mind. The fact that it was proven that the aircraft systems suffered faults it's more likely to be a contributing factor. The aircraft could have most likely been able to continue to operate with a small hole in it. They would have been warned that the pressurisation system was struggling to keep the cabin pressurised but if they had lost consciousness before this point it would show why no action was taken. Also as they got closer to the ground, they could have regained consciousness with the increase in oxygen in the air and that shows why they attempted to control the aircraft late on. That being said, having multiple failures at once is very unlikely and spatial disorientation looks the most plausible but not confirmed!

[@josh2961]

@@CuriousPilot90 that’s true, I guess there would have had to have been a rupture in the aircraft which also struck components of the ac electrical system. Losing all those instruments, the auto pilot and depressurising the cabin, all whilst in cloud and freezing conditions…

[@CuriousPilot90]

@@josh2961 extremely unlikely but not impossible.

[@ShalomShalom-d5c]

Spacial disorientation

[@moiraatkinson]

Don’t all planes fly with a “hole” in them, to divert bleed air from the engines into the plane for pressurisation? There looks to be a hole in the very back of every plane. Not into the cabin, I guess. But when smoking was legal on planes, they’d surely have to recycle the air? I think spatial disorientation combined with maybe one pilot pulling back on the yoke if the descent was noticed but not the bank.

[@chipsawdust5816]

This is why many airplanes today have a battery powered 3rd attitude indicator and backup compass (especially if the main compass is electric). With a complete electrical failure you'd still have horizontal reference and be able to navigate. I don't recall precisely but believe they can be operated at least an hour on their small batteries. I've even seen them on single engine trainers.

[@CuriousPilot90]

Every aircraft I have flown has an emergency standby instrument which had around 30 minutes of battery life. The issue with this incident is not the instruments available to the pilot as there were many, it's more why they were not used.

[@coolramone]

What is the airplane instrument that indicates if the wings are level with the horizon? Turn coordinator? That would indicate a roll to the right wouldn’t it?

[@em84c]

HSI - horizontal situation indicator

[@Riles3152]

Is it typically appropriate for Pilots to be cleared to fly in that type of weather?

[@chuckmay2583]

This was very interesting as well as sad.

[@76notam]

Good video.👍...but , in all plane like this , there is "emergency horizon " ( horizon de secours in French , if the principal is out ..to maintening the pilot's reference..

[@CuriousPilot90]

Merci, the issue and mystery with this one is not the available systems to the pilot, there were many, it's more why they were not used that is the interesting part. Especially from a pilot as experienced as he was.

[@misarthim6538]

​@@CuriousPilot90 The NTSB report provides a major indication why that was: "In the post-accident interview, the air safety inspector indicated that the pilot "had a tendency to lock in on a problem and not fly the airplane." He also failed a checkride due to mistakenly believing that Autopilot will fly the plane during engine failure. Both of these tendencies would be deadly in situation like this, where it was absolutely required of him to take active control over the plane asap.