My Vision Wasn't Good Enough to Be a Fighter Pilot

When I was 16, I was determined to become a fighter pilot. But, after a visit to the optometrist, my dreams were crushed. Do you need perfect vision to become a fighter pilot?
Navy Standards:
www.med.navy.m...
Air Force Medical Standards:
www.medxs.af.m...
More (unofficial) info:
www.makethemte...
My website:
www.cwlemoine.com
Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.
#MakeThemTellYouNo

[@baghdaddymike6669]

This video is a prime example of how Mover uses this platform for good and is an incredible ambassador for Air Force and Navy aviation!

[@samypons3185]

yep

[@Savage_Viking]

I ran into the 'perfect vision' problem when I applied to be a warrant officer Apache pilot. Although I aced my tests my vision didn't meet the requirements. So, I canceled pursuing the warrant officer path, stayed enlisted and went on to special operations and had a blast. Turns out that a few years after I applied the Army changed the standards for vision to be a pilot, but at that point I was older and just didn't want to go through the hassle again. Pursuing my pilots license now after retirement. Great video as always.

[@motskater]

I failed my vision test to become a warrant officer. It was literally the last thing to do that day at MEPS. I was so tired my eyes kept watering and I was not prepared for the machine they used. I should of pursued it more but that time has long gone. I always wonder what my life could of been like if I passed that test.

[@Glashawk1]

Yep used to be perfect vision uncorrected. Sometime in 2000 they changed it to 20/20 corrected. Around 2002 they started taking waivers for the surgeries. The whole “perfect vision” requirement is no longer an issue today.

[@jimkekoa2756]

Yep, I had the same exact thing when I took the flight physical at Travis AFB during Berkeley AFROTC in 1980. They said 20/30 vision with astigmatism was disqualifying for flying, no waivers permitted at that time. 1990s they opened up vision requirements, but was too old for flight training. Always regretted not being able to fly jets... Love flying!

[@angrytigermpc]

I originally planned (faintly hoped, let me be honest) to enlist and then commission at some point afterwards with one of the pathways to officership with a goal of being... Some sorta pilot. Anything, helos, jets, heck woulda even done cargo haulers. Failed the depth perception block of the vision test at MEPS because in the first few images I couldn't make out the difference, finally I realized what I was supposed to be looking at and saw it in the latter half of the test and was passing but they had already marked me as a fail because I had failed a few. To be fair to them, for all they knew I was just guessing. I know it's just as important, but funnily enough I'm 20/10 left / 20/15 right, so it's not like my eyes suck or anything There are many other reasons/personal failings I ended up not commissioning, let alone flying, so I won't blame that as like the one dream-killing moment, but just find it funny how that eye exam is so universally screwy

[@Ananamitron]

Made MEPS definitely tell me no. They sent me back 3 times, sent me to eye specialists, and found out I had Keratoconus and would need a cornea transplant. Wouldn't have known otherwise. Fortunately, I can still get a first-class medical for the FAA and can fly still, just not in the military.

[@damonfleming3952]

Fellow kerataconus sufferer here also. Don’t see many people often that also have it.

[@Ananamitron]

@@damonfleming3952 Did you get the transplant or are you correctable without it?

[@damonfleming3952]

@@Ananamitron have to have a transplant in my left eye. Getting a scleral lense fitted now and crosslinking in my right.

[@Ananamitron]

@@damonfleming3952 I had my transplant in my left eye as well. My doctor has talked about crosslinking in my right, but thus far it's been stable and correctable to 20/20. I don't know about the military today, so make sure you ask if that's your goal but I do know that if your vision is correctable to 20/20 you can get a first-class medical for the FAA. Just be aware that you'll likely get the same restriction as me "Not valid for any class after one year". This simply means no matter what class you get, you'll have to renew your medical every year. You'll likely have to go to an eye doctor every year and get a few tests/forms filled out from them.

[@travisworden9653]

As a fighter pilot myself, I can attest that the medical boards really do try to help you if they can. For the sitting height test at my board, the sweet voiced examiner lady stuck the measuring stick to my head and said “sit up straight, honey’ to which I replied “I am!”. Then she looked at me-now dead serious, all sweetness in her voice vanished-and said in a voice 9 levels deeper “Sit. Taller.” I’ve never squeezed my buttcheeks so hard in my life. After the most stressful pause of my life as she scrutinized the measuring tool… her motherly shrill returned as she smiled and said “okay you’re good to go!’… That lady saved my career. Always love your message, mover. Keep it up! -Flip

[@aim9491]

I just got the offer to fly jets in the German air force with specially fitted glasses, even though the doctor during the medical assessment said, that glasses in a fighter were a no go because they wouldn't fit beneath the helmet. It's crazy how much misinformation there is even inside the military and especially in recruitment. Got two medical exemptions, one for the glasses and one for a neurological thing. Make them tell you no!

[@Tioisdik]

That's great. In Belgium however, nothing is allowed. Even being nearsighted, easily corrected with Lasik surgery, is a no go. In the US you can become a top ace, even with Lasik. Here, you need 10/10 vision, without any correction. Wonder how many potential good fighterpilots they denied flying...

[@AL-gc2fj]

@@Tioisdik they are planning to be less strict, within the next years, because they are scared of not finding enough pilots in the future. But for now, yes, 10/10 vision is required.

[@Fergus_0703]

I’m looking into going in the Philippine Military Academy hopefully to fly fighter jets but any aircraft will do. Any advice on the basics of being a pilot or just military school in general?

[@stefaan715]

@@Tioisdik I even wrote a lettre tot the then minister Coeme with the suggestion that for a career in the 9th wing training, perfect eyesight wasn't needed, but the answer was no.

[@Tioisdik]

@@stefaan715 ridiculous. Many other countries have great military pilots who had eye surgery. Nothing wrong with that.

[@virginiafrank317]

Thank you for repeatedly posting your "Make them tell you 'No'" advice. Undoubtedly, it will help some people realize their dreams of flying. When I was a young boy I dreamed of being a fighter pilot. Unfortunately, because of my terrible vision, which was so bad that I couldn't tell whether my optometrist's eyes were open or closed from the normal examination distance, I knew I would never fly either fighters or anything else in the USAF. I went to high school from 1958 until 1962, and the eye rules were much stricter then than now. I've spent my life being very unhappy about not being able to fly in the U. S. military. Thank you again for working to help anyone who might listen to your advice.

[@Karibanu]

I was looking to join the RAF ( or RN ) all through school in the 80s... screwed up a knee twice to the point of major surgery which was looking iffy but I thought I could work around that, only to find "history of migraines? sorry, we don't want you for anything". My vision was absolutely amazing ( after a career staring at screens it's desperately trying not to be! ), but eh, the rest of you has to be pretty good too. The cold war ending probably didn't help either. Probably for the best I never made it, diagnosed with absurdly bad ADHD a decade ago :)

[@schoolio64D]

Wow, I had such a similar optometrist experience when I was 16 in 1993, only as a military brat, it was an Air Force doc. I think it worked out ok for me - I’m about to retire as an Army O6, Master Aviator, rated in the AH-64 and UH-60, and instructor pilot in C-12s and UC-35s. Awesome message…keep up the great work!

[@gregorymaupin6388]

Mover you are one of the most humble officers and for that I really respect that about you. Your guests are all the same way. Hopefully one day our paths will cross and I would truly like to shake your hand for putting a smile on an old sailor’s face during some hard times.

[@perspicator5779]

Will buy you both a drink too! Pepsi for you Mover!

[@justalpha9138]

@@perspicator5779 I'd love to meet with him too. I'm considering joining the AF myself, and despite my mental issues I've had in the past, I'm a solid student and in great physical shape, so I'd love to see if I had what it takes to do exactly what I wish for! :)

[@adastra3492]

I always wanted to be an Air Force pilot since I was a young kid. Watching your videos throughout the many years kept my hope alive- even with the vision I had. My vision was originally disqualifying for the Air Force, and even after I got PRK, one eye was still barely 20/20- even with glasses. Overall, I NEVER let them tell me no - and there were many times I was told no. After many hard fought battles I passed all the medical checks. I'm beyond excited to say I'll be heading to IFT in Colorado on Wednesday and officially starting UPT in July. Your message is one i'll never forget.

[@xvlonenasty6482]

Hey I hope your doing well, I’m planning to go to UPT. Good luck!

[@adastra3492]

@@xvlonenasty6482 Hey thanks for the reply. I have my first flight in the T-6 in about 2 weeks. Super excited! Best of luck!

[@liez115]

​@@adastra3492hey I know I'm super late but I was wondering what you're onto flying now? I hope you passed UPT.

[@adastra3492]

@@liez115 Hey! Yea I just finished pilot training couple weeks ago! I’m moving on to fly the AC-130J Ghostrider!

[@jordanedwards9681]

Hey man. I just turned 26 and want to be a pilot in the air force. My biggest hurdle right now is my vision. I wear one contact in my left eye and have 20/30 vision with that contact in. I am trying to see a specialist to see if it is in fact correctable to know if I can fly for the Air Force in the next couple of years. I also just started getting hours for my private license for some flying experience. Any recommendations or suggestions that you could give an older guy like myself? @adastra3492

[@terryboyer1342]

My story with vision reqs. I wore glasses before kindergarten. I was always intensely interested with and loved space stuff and airplanes. (born in 1958 so space race was on!) I knew with my bad eyesight I'd never fly military but got my flying fix by joining CAP as a cadet and later a senior member. But I always dreamed of actually flying an aircraft by myself. In my 30s I decided I'd make that a reality and started taking lessons. I was fortunate and my main instructor was an active duty F/A-18C pilot on TDY in Detroit. We REALLY hit it off and had a great time together. Anyway as solo approached I had to get the Class C medical. I went to a local FAA ME. Everything was going well until he told me to read the eye chart WITHOUT my glasses on. It was a total blur and I couldn't see anything. He said I had to see at least one letter to pass. I was devastated and thinking this was the end and I'd never solo. He saw my huge disappointment and asked if I could see the big letter that comes after D. I was confused and said what? He repeated "Can you see the big letter that comes after D"? I said, you mean E? He said "Good enough!" When I put my glasses back on I saw the top letter on the chart was a big E. So with his help and coaching I passed the medical and soloed a few weeks later. Instead of telling me no he said yes! I'll always be grateful to him.

[@justalpha9138]

Dope person! I should take notes from this!

[@BattleRifle112]

I failed depth perception twice. I also got "PDQ'd" 4 times before even getting to MEPS. Currently in Meridian. Keep trying!

[@ninjabearpress2574]

I'm blind in one eye, depth perception's overrated.

[@AB-bu8ti]

Hey PimaPuma congrats and keep it up! Do you have advice on how to pass the depth perception?

[@ChristopherSterwerf]

I wish I was back in middle school now and had access to the information you're sharing. Mover, you are changing the lives of many young future aviators. Keep up the great work! Thanks for letting me vicariously live the fighter pilot life through you.

[@Alan-mw7ge]

As a child of Top Gun in the 80's, I too of course wanted to be Maverick. At 15 I suddenly needed glasses. I already had flight time in a Cessna and tested high, but the recruiter said, 'sorry son, your options are maybe WSO if you're lucky, or hey, how about helis in the army?'. I said 'Goose died man.' That was it. I wish I knew the MTTYN philosophy. My parents were more of the 'it's a foregone conclusion, don't bother'. Oh well. Great message.

[@Deuce_Dufresne]

“No, next question”. Classic Mover 😎 Never take advice from people that don’t know what they’re talking about (which is basically everyone regarding pilot stuff that aren’t a pilot themselves). Hence the make them tell you no 😎.

[@noncrediblecase341]

I'm no pilot, just a civilian with an interest in aviation and fighter jets, but "Make Them Tell You No" is such a great and inspirational mindset for just about any career or accomplishment you want to achieve. Thanks for this, Mover.

[@CallsignOutdoors]

Mover, I am in a similar spot right now. I got picked up for OTS recently and got an RPA slot. When I got my retinal scans done for my IFC1, they found abnormal corneal topography in my right eye. They wanted to send me off base (I am still waiting to go to MFS) to get a second opinion before they route my IFC and waiver. No one in my flight med team is worried as I have 20/20 and perfect depth perception. I’ve also been on flying status my entire enlisted career with almost 1000hrs of flight time. Also having a PPL does help my case. Even though I got selected for RPAs, I still may apply for manned later on after I am flying the line again. I’ve worked on becoming an Officer my entire 6 year enlisted career so it still is stressful going through this process, but your videos have helped me over the years and it’s amazing how you went through even more hurdles than me and you made it. Make them tell you no! TIDE

[@CallsignOutdoors]

Just got through Wright Patt and leaving for OTS very soon. I am going to make a video on my channel on going from enlisted to officer and what helped me be competitive and the video will be a shoutout to you, Mover. Make them tell you no!

[@Bad_Wolf_Media]

5:33 - I've watched the channel long enough to know the story, but I'm just imagining newbies coming to the channel and hearing the casual mention of "...when I got struck by lightning." That sound is many jaws hitting floors and desks.

[@cerium5754]

Literally me right now. I was so unprepared for that one

[@wischef64]

My cousin's daughter went to West Point. 4 days before her graduation, she had a seizure. She was left in limbo for a year before a doctor cleared her to finally receive her commission. She toughed it out and now is a Captain commanding a Patriot missile battery. Probably didn't hurt that she has a 3-star general for an uncle to keep her motivated.

[@LongTran-em6hc]

A girl manning a Patriot battery? Why does that sound so familiar...

[@wischef64]

@@LongTran-em6hc What exactly is that supposed to mean?

[@nobody-ew1pj]

@@wischef64 there was a US army ad about a girl with two moms that operates a patriot battery

[@LongTran-em6hc]

@@wischef64 as nobody said And you may, or may not, want to take a look at it.

[@wischef64]

@@LongTran-em6hc Already did, interesting story. I'm only curious why she didn't finish college first, then she'd be in charge of the battery like my cousin. Might be looking to use the GI Bill for that, though.

[@argoswaits2084]

Last year, when I was 16, I was stuck in a similar situation. Now that I know the facts it has cut my uncertainty significantly. Thank you for your service and thank you for your story.

[@Ed-hz2um]

Similar problem for me. At age 8, I was diagnosed with a heart murmur, but I took little notice. In my teens, I went to my family Doc to get a 3rd Class FAA physical so I could begin flying lessons. He listened to my heart...and failed me! Crushed. However, I later applied through the Air Guard for the AF Aviation Cadet program. At the physical, I was ready for the rejection, again. The Doc asked me if I had ever had a heart murmur diagnosed. I told him I had. He gave me the name of a cardiologist for tests, and approved my application after getting the results. Success! I'm 84 now and looking back on a long military (fighters) and airline career. I never had any problem with my heart. Also...my vision is still 20-20 uncorrected. Not too bad for an octogenarian.

[@paulbrooks4395]

Good stuff, I always had 20/15 vision but have been plagued by health issues, changing meds all the time, and was never healthy enough for the military, even though I wanted to be a fighter pilot so badly. It’s amazing how a person can otherwise be completely okay in some ways but be heavily unwell in others. Not every story is a victory, but the message that folks need to know is to never stop trying, keep getting help, and you’ll go farther than you might believe is possible. For me, every day is a struggle-winning isn’t a win-it’s more akin to “don’t be defeated” and “do what you can even if you’re falling apart”. I don’t know how I even made it through college and still hold a job, but I know that until I hit a insurmountable brick wall-I will never stop trying to do better than yesterday.

[@Mills117]

Man this it too funny, I had my in-depth flight physical at Wright-Patt after getting my pilot slot during college. While I was there I failed the depth perception test TWICE and I was sweating bullets. The optometrist told me he was going to make me a custom pair of glasses and if I failed a 3rd time that was it, pilot slot likely gone. I was sitting in the waiting room and someone told me the secret about it never being the first and the last and wouldn't you know it I passed the last time. Almost 5 years to the date and now I'm flying C-17s. Just the thought of that test makes me sweat haha.

[@herbrice8933]

I had this same experience. Family and Eye Dr's said no way. I was in the Civil Air Patrol as a cadet as a kid all thru middle and high school and only wanted to fly. All those dreams of flying went out the window. My 2nd choice was a Marine Scout Sniper and that was a no go as well. I said screw college and just went in the Marines because I just wanted out of my house and in the Marines. If only I had good information like yours when I was younger. Hopefully some young men and women get this and it gives them more hope to move on.

[@johnscott268]

There's perfect vision, then there was what I had, which was a combination of myopia and astigmatism so bad that not only was flying out, but I couldn't pass the Navy's eye exam (apparently, they frown on driving your ship into another ship) and LASIK wasn't a thing yet (which finally cured me about 20 years ago). But like you, Mover, I was young when they told me no, and unfortunately I didn't even know that there was such a thing as waivers.

[@ChuckS117]

I’m a bit colorblind on the green side. I got “no” two times. I kept pressing on until I got them to make me some light tests and passed with no issues. See, I have no problems with the colors themselves but this little book with dots they test you with just doesn’t tell them how bad it is. Been flying airliners for 8 years now.

[@Flyingcircustailwheel]

Mover, you kinda changed my life. I can't even remember the day I decided I wanted to fly fighters, maybe 3 or 4 years old. As I got older I got discouraged because of the issues you brought up, ended up failing a FC1 about 5 years ago. I'm happy to say I'll be slinging packages out this year. I owe you so much for these videos. Thanks for all you do!

[@ericlawrence9729]

Great message Mover, this is such a great MO for how to approach everything in life. Thanks for all your great work and sharing. God Bless.

[@CWLemoine]

Thanks, Eric!

[@brianrotunno3913]

Thank you for making this video, sir. I had to go to MEPs about four times before finally being cleared with waivers. Your story gives a lot of people hope to pursue a career that they believe in. "Make them tell you no" is great advice for MEPS

[@novaspartan9703]

Air Force ROTC cadet here. I’ve been watching your videos for a long time, just got done with IFC at Wright-Patt. I’ve had 20-15 vision my entire life, I’ve got a PPL, never had any vision issues and wasn’t worried about passing. According to the docs I’m apparently color deficient. No waivers available, but there’s an ETP route which could take years. Never thought this would happen to me, but here I am. The fights not over, I’m gonna make them tell me no as many times as I can.

[@SITST6]

I could barely see the E on the chart, but thanks to PRK and a waiver I went to OTS in 2007 then KEND shortly after. But almost DQ'd at Brooks for the depth perception test thanks to the tech putting the lenses in backwards on those dumb glasses we had to wear.

[@CWLemoine]

Enid, America!

[@AvarageMilkEnjoyer]

Thank you for this inspirational content! I'm also wanting to become a fighter pilot but I was always thinking I didn't have good enough vision or wasn't smart enough or anything. People around me tell me "you can always be a crewchief or air traffic controller" I just said sure I guess and kind of lost hope for ever becoming a fighter pilot. Recently I found your channel and I love it! Especially this video motivates me to try out everything I can to become a fighter pilot. Every. Single. Option. Like Sam Eckholm once said "If there's a will there's a waiver!" I'm gonna push forward and give it my all #MakeThemTellYouNo

[@otiebrown9999]

Excellent. I am a Private Pilot, so I appreciate your dreams! Thanks for the details!

[@jeffp9551]

LOL! Almost identical experience here. I failed the depth perception at MEPS too and they told me I would never fly in the Air Force. I had PRK as a civilian and had to spend a day at Brooks as well. Been flying in the AF for 15 years. Don't take no for an answer!

[@tommyspencer7891]

It's good the Armed Forces changed the vision requirements and began allowing those without "perfect" vision to fly fighters. Sucks that it took so long. Back when I went through the academy process in '92, none of these allowances or waivers existed. There were supposedly age waivers as well, but found out the recruiters were spewing empty promises. I missed the boat by a generation, but times change and seems they've wised up. Good on you for sticking with it and persevering.

[@aaronloya5704]

Thanks for sharing sir, this is definitely great advice that more need to hear. I recently had a very similar experience as a cadet at the Air Force Academy. 3 months ago when I did my graduation eye exam, I was told by the optometrist that I was DQ'ed for depth caused by my brain not being able to properly fuse images from both eyes. I was also told that vision therapy wasn't an option, and would lead to a DQ as well. Additionally, due to another condition, I was told it was possible that I would not be able to go rated at all. A month ago I had my ACS waiver review and was able to pass all the depth tests, leading to waivers for both conditions. This outcome was highly unlikely and took a number of leaps of faith, including being fully transparent and honest with cadet optometry and the ACS folks. Turns out, "eye exercises" done on your own are perfectly acceptable as long as they are not part of an active therapy program supervised by a doctor/therapist. Make them tell you no!

[@jmf5246]

Back in the early 80s in my nrotc unit i was told waivers are only given out after ur an aviator and ur eyes go bad. And then only if its a slight change. Having 20/400 vision i was told sorry ur never getting in a cockpit even as an nfo. Didnt have lasek then and racial k surgery was not approved. I am very glad it has changed for the kids today who are nearsighted!

[@Nothank1997]

This is a lesson in life right here! Wish I had heard this when I was 17 years old ✈️

[@perspicator5779]

Great detailed update on your story! As I told you before my son had some hurdles including vision but now is Viper driver about to rank up to Captain and FLUG after 11 months at assignment squadron. HUA!

[@flashcar60]

The depth-perception test got me, too, when I was in the USMC. It's odd that I couldn't pass it because my depth perception is pretty good, as demonstrated when landing an aircraft, or driving a car close to the guard rail of a narrow bridge.

[@angelhelp777]

Thank you for this story. This is exactly what happened to me in my senior year of high school in 1975. Since a young age, I had dreamed of being a fighter pilot. One day a recruiter came to my school looking for boys who were interested in joining the military. I told him I wanted to fly jets, specifically the F-111. He saw I wore glasses and after discussing my vision he informed me I would never qualify and laughingly commented about my vision stating, "You couldn't even find the ground." My vision was 20/15 corrected, but without glasses, it was 20/800. I check around to see if there was a way to correct my vision, but Lasik wasn't an option back then. I attempted to join other military services and then the police department but was turned down flat every time. Looking back I believe my eyesight would not have been correctable enough to qualify, but I wish I had heard about your, "Make them tell you no", philosophy, because I would have fought a lot harder. I went on to have a career as the owner of an award-winning printing company for 38 years. I was advised that I needed signed contracts with all my customers, but I decided to run the company my way. The only contract I ever had with anyone was my handshake and I never went unpaid for any of my work. Throughout my life when I was told something could not be done, I took it as a challenge and usually found ways to accomplish the task, thus I believe we have a similar philosophy. I have enjoyed your channel for several years and wish you the best in life. I also never miss an opportunity to thank those who serve our country so to you I say, "Thank you for your service, your sacrifice, and most of all, OUR FREEDOM! God bless you and God bless our great nation."

[@ZGundam83]

I applied for PRK when I was stationed in Quantico. I passed the initial pre screening and they sent me to Joint Base Andrews for the surgery. During the pre-surgery examination, they told me that I have Kertaconis and that they won’t do the surgery. The Navy Doctors told me that I didn’t have that so they were going to sent me to Fort Belvoir for the surgery. I was transferred and then I left the Marines, before I was able to the surgery. The following year, I stopped at an eye clinic, applied for PRK and had the surgery. 20/200 -> 20/20 Never gave up either. Best $4000 I have ever spent

[@Kamorov]

This is absolutely wild ... your story is very similar to mine with growing up wanting to be a fighter pilot and being hit in 98 with sight problems unfortunately I was told by everyone that my flight career was effectively ended so when I graduated in 01 I ended up going towards the army instead.

[@colinthepilot]

Never accept "no", for sure. I went through around the time you did. I was ROTC, then active duty, so slightly different path. I never wanted fighters. I'm a heavy guy, always was. My vision was clearly outside the standards back then, so I took a Nav slot, and got Herks, which was perfect for me at the time. Not taking "no" for an answer also sometimes means taking a slightly different path, and still getting a great opportunity.

[@toddb930]

Great story. I was thinking back around 1970 you did need perfect vision to be a military pilot. Can anyone confirm this? I wish I had someone like you to listen to in 1970, to encourage me to try and be a pilot. I think I had 20/20 vision then but I didn't know you could keep exploring other avenues to make something happen. I was brought up with "you can't have it -end of story" mindset. I ended up enlisting in the Air Force and worked in electronics. After the AF I got an EE degree and recently finished a career in electrical engineering.

[@fredsalfa]

That’s a great story not just for yourself but for life in general. Never stops trying or striving for a goal.

[@RamadiTaxiDriver60M]

A common tale unfortunately. Let people talk me out of it early on. Years later met an actual aviator who got me where I wanted to be. LASIK is a thing. Oldest guy (39) to finish Army Flight School (through the Guard) and oldest guy (49) to transition to GUNSHIPS. Plus flying commercially as my day job. Make them tell you no. Good stuff, thanks again.

[@LE-xd7lx]

Maybe a common tale in America..I guess the right answer is: Depends where you live! I know for a fact that in Belgium 10/10 vision is mandatory, would surprise me if we are the only country following this (perhaps outdated) rule?

[@faelwolf1177]

When I was in, the USAF had a directive against anyone being a pilot who had lasik. They were worried about defects in vision due to scarring, etc. as well as the altered cornea. That was 40 years ago though, I imagine things may have changed.

[@Marksplaytime]

As a fellow astigmatism guy, I say great information. One word of caution on corrective surgery (you mentioned Lasik). I had a flight student who would always get messed up returning to our home field and flare at the wrong time (if at all) unless I gave her a quick cue. After much troubleshooting, we determined her Lasik procedure to rid her of glasses, corrected one eye to near and one to far which made a mess of her depth perception. Once we figured that out and she got glasses to correct for her corrective surgery, she was off to the races and did just fine, but it took a bit of perseverance to get to that point.

[@kenmeyer100]

I had kind of similar experience. In my country I failed the Ishihara-Test because of red green deficiency. My medical only allowed for non commercial flights. Later I learned that in case of failing the Ishihara, in the US one could get a medical exemption if passing a practical test, called lantern test (kind of real life test for red green recognition). Went for it, passed, got a medical exemption et voila

[@palleh.jensen4648]

Thanks Mover for the contents, it was a good story to hear, what I like about the system is the “overall” pragmatic and “can do” attitude. Cheers Palle

[@MuzixMaker]

You did back in the 70s. Why I didn’t go into aviation as a kid.

[@skid2151]

We had a student at Williams that was kicked out for having corrective eye surgery. The surgery was not approved by the AF (circa 1986), and when challenged by the docs, the student lied about having the procedure. He was removed from UPT and possibly kicked out.

[@BootedTech]

1988, I applied to be a fighter pilot, good schooling and physically fit, however; I suffered from colour blindness (Red+Greens) and I suffered asthma. My recruiter told me as long as the asthma was managed and that flying did not affect it I should be fine. I applied and was knocked back due to the colour blindness and having asthma. If I had one or the other, I stood a far better chance. Today, I still have the documents, and now, I'm just a blue collar worker doing the things I hate.

[@katherinee.1213]

Thanks for posting this! I want to be a pilot but I have bad vision and a high glasses prescription, this video gives me inspiration that my eyesight is not an instant no for my dreams!

[@vr9663]

I am a 16 year old who wants to become a fighter pilot in the Hellenic air force but I can't, because I am not able to see at a distance.Your video was amazing and gave me hopes

[@keisorestis6487]

Unfortunately the limits are way more strict over here

[@gregellis3859]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I hope a lot of folks get to see this video. It is quite inspiring. My nephew is in the Navy. He wanted to fly and follow in his Dad's footsteps (my brother was a naval aviator). He had an issue with his eyes when he was a child. It completely resolved on its own as he got older. When he went to try the aviator route in the Navy, they told him that he could not fly because this eye issue that resolved on its own and was no longer there was on his medical records so they could not allow him to fly even though his vision is now 20/20. He does not wear any form of vision correction. I wish he had seen this video a few years ago or was able to speak to you a few years ago and maybe things would have been different for him. He, nor his parents, pushed the issue. They just accepted it. Good thing is he is now doing something in the Navy that he really enjoys and is passionate about...meteorology. He was in surface warfare. He will be going to grad school paid for by the Navy. So it all worked out, but I always wonder, if back when, they had pushed the issue he could have had a career as an aviator.

[@LogicWarrior1474]

I feel that the fact there is no longer an uncorrected vision standard proves that this item was previously used as a way to thin the applicant pool when the pilot supply/demand curve favored the military. When I was a young man this is what kept me from pursuing my top gun dreams. I ended up a successful civ. pro pilot but I still chafe that such arbitrary requirements kept me from pursuing my dream. It was a good life lesson though…. Keep up the good work, Mover!

[@DCS_World_Japan]

I need to remember this when I go through the medical for my glider license. The Japanese civil aviation authority is so risk-averse you need equivalent First Class medical just for gliders, and IBD is stupidly listed as a disqualifier even if controlled with medication.

[@lindseearocha3772]

Thank you for this information. My husband has a dream of becoming a fighter pilot and our recruiter has been telling us he would need lasik to fix his eye sight because they don’t allow glasses or contacts at all. We found out today he would most likely never be able to get lasik or PRK just because of how thin his cornea is and we were crushed but refused to give up. Now as we do research, we’re hearing stuff like this that gives us hope. He’s in the same boat with an astigmatism but never needs or wears his glasses.

[@zpope9]

Love your videos, they have inspired me to keep pursuing my dream of becoming a fighter pilot once I receive my Bachelor's Degree. Trying to stay ahead and get a MEPS appointment now. Thanks Mover!

[@MyClarissa21]

Thank you for coming forward . It helps a lot for people who dream ti become a fighter pilot

[@duanelewis1056]

My son is at the AF Academy sitting top one percent for pilot training but failing depth perception. I am sending him this video. Thank You for the information.

[@ryangale3757]

Damn, 8-9 year old me would have gotten a lot out of hearing this back in the mid-2000s. Granted, my vision is REALLY bad (20/200 in one eye), so the story wouldn't have ended up the same way for me, but still, this kind of talk is definitely good for people like me to hear, keep it up.

[@halhaskins5949]

You are the epitome of a proud American. Don't give up.

[@TylerOrchowski]

Nearly this exact situation happened to me. I went the academy route, passed all the steps and was boot shopping in preparation for boot camp before my first year when my medical came back as "commission qualified". Turns out you want it to say "flight qualified". It wasn't visual acuity, that was fine. It was depth perception. My recruiter sent me to a flight surgeon who confirmed my depth perception was really bad with a more in depth set of tests. He had an experimental therapy I could try, but there was no guarantee of fixing the issue so I declined my appointment and went to college. I'm an engineer now in the aerospace industry, and to be honest it's the right place for me, but I very nearly went a different route. In the end, I had a growth spurt in college and am now about 6'5", which would probably have precluded me from flying fighters anyways.

[@garethcroson8851]

Thank you for this. Knowing this may stop some young man from becoming discouraged and giving up on a dream, as I did fifty years ago when I was told that I had to have perfect vision to fly in the military. I remember sitting in the cockpit wishing I was the pilot and not the mechanic.

[@nighpaw4651]

I always saw you mention how you don't need perfect vision, but this really explains why you care so much about this, and it's great that you care so much about people giving up because they thought their eyes weren't good enough

[@Alpha_Omega_1541]

As a kid in the 80s I wanted to be a fighter pilot, but I was told you had to have perfect vision to be a pilot. I was crushed and gave up on that dream. I’m glad you are clearing up this myth. I know you’ve talked about this subject before, but I’m glad you keep beating on this myth. It’s like watching a bully get beat-up.

[@emptybucket1988]

Love seeing fighter jets fly above my head the sound they make never gets old 😁😄😃

[@lynnecheermom]

A great example of "Make Them Tell You Know" Thank you Mover for the reminder. Hope Luna is feeling better!

[@brucewachta4102]

Good for you! This is great example of having the courage to not give up too easily.

[@rElliot09]

Along those same lines, the point of keep going, was my trek on becoming a Navy pilot. I served from 1993-2013, flew mainly C-2's (fleet and FRS IP) and the T-45C as an IP for my career, over 3000 military hours, over 300 traps left seat C-2A, T-45C and T-2C combined. Another 350 from the right seat of the C-2A. Anyway, I always wanted to fly as a kid, first for the USAF but witnessed a Naval Airshow when I was thirteen and was smitten by carrier aviation. As far as vision, though the 20/20 thing was not an issue. though I think it was changed to 20/30 in 1992 for 1390 (designator for a SNA). Anyway, I was at the civilian eye doctor one day, about age 16, and took an Ishihara color vision test...bombed it. The eye doc said I couldn't become a military pilot as it required normal color vision. I was devastated but decided to search out any and every color vision test I could take, passed some, failed others. I went as far as going to the local optometrist school and taking every test they had lol What I failed to realize is the Navy had a test called the Farnsworth lantern test and that was the test that counted. The test consisted of a vertical row of two lights, the lights would be red, green or white. There was a combination of 9 and could be dialed to any combo, thus making it very difficult to cheat. I passed it easily as the Farnsworth allows for a person with mild color deficiency to pass. I went on to fly the next 25 years, 20 Navy and 5 civilian, with over 5,000 hours...until I lost my medical for other health reasons. Never had an issue with color, in the cockpit, at the boat, day or night, etc. I think now days, the military just measures your color cones or something to that effect but Mover's point still stands, keep going. Know what happens if you don't? Nothing.

[@billcarrington5289]

Mover Great story and lots of interesting comments. I had similar problems with USAF and FAA and United. My experience has been there’s usually some bureaucrat strictly following standards who are the problem. A lot of times it’s a matter of finding someone who can help you or is willing to say yes rather than accepting a “no” Almost everything is waiverable if you find the right guy/resource to help you

[@redtela]

I was also 16 in '99, and was sat in front of a careers officer, saying I wanted to join the RAF. They too told my that my eyesight had to be perfect, and given I'm long sighted on one side, and short sighted on the other (no correction ever needed), I wouldn't make it. That said, I've still had a good life, and I pass on to my kids the attitude of "make them say no". Fwiw, RAF rules are that any correction must be within +8 to -7 in any meridian.

[@DefPirateGaming]

I wish I knew this before. I just found your page and when you said "make them tell you no" I was crushed. My entire life I was told I couldn't be a pilot by my Optometrist as well as my Ophthalmologist. I'm too old now, almost 34 years old. I have bad vision but it's corrected to 20/20 with contacts/glasses. My friends brother is USMC pilot. Five years ago he told me that I would need to get Lasik to be a pilot. I scheduled an appointment but the doctor said that I was not a good candidate for Lasik. I really really wish I knew this information earlier. My life will never be complete without being a fighter pilot. All I can do is go to air shows and watch what my life could have been, though that usually just makes me feel worse to be honest. I hope this video helps motivate some younger folks to follow their passion. Too bad we don't get a second chance at life.

[@keithmarks6145]

The depth perception test gets a lot of aviators and it almost got me the first time. If you don't focus directly on the dots and use your peripheral vision, it's super easy (if you have good depth perception).

[@tailhookmd2546]

Mover this broke my heart. My dad was an AF pilot and took me to the flight physiology Dept at our local base in college. I was about to take my check ride and was set on being a fighter pilot. Then I bombed the depth circle test. Mind you unofficial. But I recall mine was in a circle format. Anyway it was 1991 and the middle of the drawdown. Then I started going to guard units, none of them had any UPT boards coming up, they all offered me E3 spots cause I had a degree and told me I’d be top of the list for the next UPT board and no problem on a waiver. I never made them tell me no. I had no interest in enlisting. I quit on my dream. I still regret it to this day. Granted getting in a cockpit was no guarantee but I didn’t do what you preach, I turned away after that first door got slammed in my face. Love your channel!!

[@spectrebeast]

*great video, I'm in the process right now so thanks dude!*

[@CWLemoine]

Good luck!

[@spectrebeast]

@@CWLemoine *thank you sir! I've passed all my vision test including my civilian depth perception test for my first class, but I failed the one at MEPS a while ago. I know I'll retake it, any tips or pointers to overcome this?* 🙏🏻

[@CWLemoine]

It's never the outer-most circles. Focus on the ones in between. Tilting your head sometimes helps also.

[@spectrebeast]

@@CWLemoine *thanks a bunch MOVER! I'll practice with these strats and work with some of the flyers in my unit. Looking forward to your future videos, cheers.* 😀🤙🏻

[@chsyank]

Love your "ignore the no" attitude however for me it is 50 years too late. 1964 Vietnam war raging and I wanted to fly in the navy and not a grunt. The naval academy at that time was hard to get an appointment (all connected families wanted their sons in there) so I tried for the NROTC and passed all the IQ, background, health and was on my way to get a 4 year ride to one of a bunch of great universities. Went to a Navy recruiting facility in New York City and they said my eyesight was not sufficient and lost the scholarship. A bummer. Could have used your thinking of don't let them say no. Only good was that I attended college anyway, got hooked on early computing and voila a fifty year career followed.

[@ballomni]

At the USNA my son in his Youngster year, had PRK done on his eyes, some were DQ, gave him 20/10 in both eyes and was the start of his 3000 hour Flying Career. Went through Navy TPS , is now in the reserves, is a FAA test Pilot in FT worth. Early on was DQ from the USNA with an injury too his right knee, but with the attitude make them say no, got a waver. Got the Marine athlete award for NY state, he was very fast 4.3 40 and a 9.5 100 yard dash. Still runs every day, note he always ran with his men on ship along with his flight duty’s, he was line Maintenance officer, but always incouraged his men and women under his command..

[@kylecarmichael5890]

Back in the 80's I knew I couldn't get a pilot slot but I hoped for a non-pilot slot, they noped my hard. I can't even see the eye chart without my glasses but have 20/20 corrected vision.

[@mutantender1099]

Not going to lie, I’m kind of in the same boots. Your story’s helping me for that journey I’ll be following soon enough

[@counterstrifekid]

If only there was a way to get around the Colorblindness issue. That's one thing that kept me from doing most of my dream jobs as a kid.

[@Newspaper2007]

I have bad vision but I want to be a pilot as well. I was so happy when I realized you dont need perfect vision.

[@Thrill_House]

Love a casual reference to being struck by lightning - almost a throw away thought. Life is meant to be lived, as they say😎😎

[@adam_ahabri-YT]

I just did the vision test and failed now i will never be an air force pilot and my dream to be like my grandfathers now is burnt to aches but that doesn't mean that life ends here

[@bcluett1697]

Cheers! Glad it worked out for ya, you got a lot farther than most would of for sure.

[@jamescooley2604]

I am on Season 1 Episode 5 of AIRWOLF. THANKS Mover for mentioning where I could find it.

[@James_Bee]

How nice for you and your dad. I can barely read the big E. I doubt my vision would have got better. Yeah, I wasn't going to be a pilot because without corrective lenses I'm legally blind.

[@grumblesa10]

Mover is spot on. Every aircrew member is going to say, " MAKE them say no." In my case, I was 20/50L 20/15R, which threw off my depth perception. At the time (1984 😳), yep 20/20 uncorrected, 20/70 for Nav/WSO. But corrected, I passed everything. I had the heart thing as well. My condition was " athlete's heart," which is no issue. Keep in mind, for ACTIVE DUTY folks in the pipeline aircraft assignments work like this: #1 " Needs of the Service". If your service needs a shitload of helo pilots, odds are you're going to helos regardless of class ranking. #2 Class ranking: higher in the class, more likely to get your first pick. In my case, I was going to ' varks, but the dude ahead of me washed out, and as I was next highest in the class, got his F4 #3 EuroNato Joint Jet Pilot Training (ENJJPT). If you get through it - wash out rates are high - you will get a fighter of some type. Navy works somewhat the same.

[@AirRyanTX]

Great video and great message! Particularly prudent if you go into the military, if you want to do something make them tell you no. I was similar to you but maybe five years older. In 1992 I had a routine eye exam in high school and they said you need to get glasses. I was maybe -1.75 and had about 20/30. (Probably hurt my vision trying to play too many flight simulators but who knows.) My best friend's Dad was a USAFR F-16 pilot at the time so I knew all about the great opportunities the Guard and Reserve could offer. Let's just say that eye exam took all the wind out of my sails. (My friend would later get sponsored (late 90's) by a nearby Reserve F16 squadron but MEPs DQ'd him as one of his eyes was like 20/25 and not 20/20, which at that time they said you had to have in order to fly F-16's. No retakes or nothing from what I was told.) Your story resonates with me because when I was in high school and they told me I needed glasses, my grades went down and I kind of withdrew from a lot of things (sports) that I still regret to this day. Back then, if you didn't have 20/20 perfect you were cannon fodder and used as a way to thin the applicant pool as far as the military went. Airliners were always on the table and that is ultimately where I desired to go, so I still tried to fly one way or another. I first attempted an aviation college after high school but 18 months later enlisted (large part for money for school) active duty Marines for C-130 aerial navigator with the plan to finish college on the side and still get a commission; (I'd have been happy to go WSO or rotary-winged as I did want to serve.) Passed my flight physical in Pensacola (stamped with glasses but I was only 20/30 and nowadays as you point out, that wouldn't even matter,) but I was then told I was going to be a Huey crew chief and I couldn't wait for the navigator board (funny how that works), so I ended up avionics on 46's. Ended up with a rare neurological condition that ended my military and flying days, but such is life. The Marines still gave me lifelong bits of knowledge and in some regards, gave me the positive mental disposition I would still need to go back to college and persevere in life. In retrospect, the Marine Corps Platoon Leader's Class is another great opportunity for a flight slot when you're in college (don't even have to do ROTC) but the majority of their aircraft are rotary-winged (or more accurately now tilt-rotor) and that time doesn't count for say, SWA, just FYI. Love your message "make them tell you no" and I can't emphasize that enough, as well! For the folks coming up now, even if you're eyes are slightly outside of the parameters you can still get some pretty amazing eye surgery with custom iLasik that as I understand it, doesn't DQ from consideration like early eye surgery used to 25 years ago.

[@dalemllns]

This whole time I've been a viewer, I thought you were older than me..... 🤦‍♂️ I had dreams of being a fighter pilot too but I ended up joining the Infantry in the Army. Dropped out of college when the planes hit the towers thr next day and was at MEPS a month later. I found my fight a year later.....

[@captainthez6532]

Shit man

[@peerlooijen4117]

Thanks for the video. I appleid to become a fighter pilot in Sweden but i failed one of the tests. They told me that i could apply agian in 2,5 years and although i already had decided that i will do that it was nice to hear that i'm not the only one who has tried multiple times, and that it isnt over just because i faild the first time.

[@ampere11]

My grandpa was a Naval Aviator and I wanted to be one as well. Unfortunately, I have a very bad astigmatism and had to wear glasses since 5th grade. I still asked if I could qualify for flight training since my grandpa told me he didn't have perfect vision, but I was way out of standard (I am a year older than mover) and my night vision sucked even more. When you have a bad astigmatism you get halo's and fuzzy vision when there are lights in darkness (like headlights or cockpit buttons). It was a no go for me. I made them say no, and they absolutely did say no, but I wonder if I was in the military I might have been able to continue trying. I went to college and became a TT&C engineer and got to work with the military that way. Still wish I could have been a Naval Aviator though.

[@timtiernan]

Got the same story when I tried to pursue an airline career. Just retired from 29 years with United. Enough said!

[@dennismason3740]

No god no not the little circles! I see no differences, whatsoever. Make me a ball-turret gunner!

[@idkstillme4100]

Wow the meaning of "never let them tell you no" has reached another level.

[@toddie4usa1]

"Make them tell you no"

[@jinzhang8241]

You are a true inspiration, Mover. Thank you!

[@jeffreysdesignsvisuals1480]

Mover, great video! I was in the Army and worked in an Apache Battalion, I was so mesmerized by these machines that I decided to start my warrant flight packet until I got bad news from my optometrist. I basically got told the same line, "You will never be a pilot. I don't even know how you're in the Army and made it past MEPS." My optometrist diagnosed me with Keratoconus, which the Army or military in general has a pretty substantial policy regarding this disease. I ended up getting the corrective surgery for this disease, which it wasn't guaranteed. They said it could either slow the degenerative process down or make it worse depending on how my eyes reacted to the surgery. I got the surgery a couple months before I officially transitioned out of the Army, I just sometimes wish I would've exhausted all my resources to get a definite no like you mentioned. -Blue skies!

[@jessefriesen9666]

I love your message and the make them tell you no mentality! Very inspiring keep doing what you do Mover.