Cyclist Entrapment Policy

Do some social media cycling individuals stay in secondary position to encourage close passes?
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[@Tommylew92]

I cycle to work every day and my experience is that a lot of drivers see primary position as me purposefully getting in the way to be a nuisance on the road. I try to adopt primary and secondary at the most appropriate times, but drivers honk their horn at me when I’m in primary and still try to pass me, which is on them for driving dangerously, particularly when I’m trying to deter them from overtaking in the first place because it’s not safe to do so. But a lot of the time I feel like I’m increasing my risk of being knocked over. Even though I’m within the law to cycle in primary, as you mentioned, there are so many drivers out there who don’t understand why I’m doing it, so in reality it doesn’t always work as smoothly or safely as I’d like. Thanks for the video though, if you have the time to go into more detail on this issue I’d be very keen to watch the video! 😁

[@andrewnorris5415]

Rush hour drivers are terrible. Esp if there has been hold ups due to traffic jams elsewhere. They are desperate to get to work on time. No excuse. On a car you always need a big buffer time zone for most commutes. The irony is that if more cycled there would not be so much congestion and queues of cars.

[@Tailspin80]

@@andrewnorris5415Too true. There is a world of difference between riding in rush hour vs a quiet Sunday morning.

[@michaelmurray616]

I got called a wanker by a bus driver at a red light after riding in primary in front of him for about 150m...

[@NilSatis82]

Exactly this. I was passed within about 0.5m this morning, most likely as a punishment pass for riding in primary. Not 15 seconds later, I met the same car again at the red lights.

[@Tailspin80]

@@NilSatis82 I don’t know why Ashley puts out these videos pretending that cyclists can dictate how drivers behave simply by riding in primary. If the driver disagrees you can be in a precarious position on the road. I do use primary at times but will always be looking for ways to cooperate and let them past safely.

[@New-ye2fl]

Cycling primary on uk roads is seen as being entitled to a lot of people who drive cars in the uk, and anyone who’s cycled on uk roads will know that British motorists aren’t to shy on being aggressive with cyclists.

[@j.tann1970]

It's not just the UK. I lived in Canada for 9 years and most of that time I got around by bike in the city I lived in. The amount of times I had motorists have a go at me just for being on the road was crazy. One time I was waiting at a red light, I was on the right and another cyclist (who I did not know) was on my left. Like the US, Canada has the turn right on a red exemption rule and the driver behind me wanted to do just that but I was in his way! He honked at me, yelled at me, and gave me rude gestures. I just yelled back at him that I can't go on a red and he will have to wait which is what prompted the rude gestures. You follow the rules of the road and they still have issues with you. You just can't win as a cyclist.

[@qasimmir7117]

Sad that.

[@matthewdray83]

I am serioulsy worried, granted Twitter or X is a world of hate, but just how many drivers deomnstrate contempt for cyclists, either through their driving or on social media

[@jopearson3022]

Not an issue that's exclusive to drivers. As a woman driver living and working in the Peak District, with it's narrow roads and crowds of visitors, I can tell you lots of stories about entitled and aggressive cyclists. Just about every week, I'll get stuck behind a pack of leisure cyclists riding for literally miles along a narrow road, hogging the white line all of the way even though they could safely move over towards the kerb and allow following traffic to pass. Then, when I finally reach somewhere I can get past safely while giving them room, the mouthfuls of abuse I get from some of them, often questioning my ability as a driver, really is shocking and disgusting. (And, before anyone says anything, I'm an advanced driver and hold a racing license too, so...) I've even had instances when I've safely passed a group of cyclists who have been deliberately holding me up, only to have them follow me home and get aggressive towards me because I dared to overtake them - even though I gave them the suggested 1.5m. Fortunately, my husband works from home with a couple of very large friends, so they soon scare them off... So, while some drivers may react aggressively towards cyclists, it can also go the other way, with cyclists reacting aggressively towards drivers even when it is actually the cyclist who's the one acting unreasonably. As I say, it's a common problem here in the Peak District, and one of the reasons why many locals feel quite negatively towards cyclists on the roads around here.

[@j.tann1970]

@@jopearson3022 "And, before anyone says anything, I'm an advanced driver and hold a racing license too, so..." that there might be your problem. Maybe they are not complaining about how you pass them but perhaps they think you are going too fast? That too can cause cyclists issues, especially if you are in a larger car like an SUV. Don't get defensive, I am not saying you are driving too fast for sure, just making a guess, so forgive me if my guess is wrong.

[@alanwllms5172]

No excuses for any close pass where there are two lanes

[@glenn1534]

I get a lot of abuse from drivers when cycling in primary when there are 2 lanes. On some roads I find that if I cycle in secondary, it invites drivers not only to overtake, but also to hold their line whilst overtaking, getting extremely close to me. It seems like some drivers don't realise they have to wait for a break in the traffic in the right lane to make a safe overtake anyway, so they beep and rev as if I'm holding them up.

[@Tailspin80]

You mean - no excuse for a close pass. Period.

[@agricola9171]

I got the worst close pass I have ever experienced riding on a 3 lane road in Sydney. Bus almost took me out and proceeded to stop in front of me to drop off passengers.

[@lloydy1312]

@@agricola9171 I feel you. Had a van pass me to turn left in London. I had to turn left and bump into the van with my shoulder to avoid getting hurt. There are bad drivers everywhere.

[@marcom9103]

​@@lloydy1312probably more so in London.

[@glenn1534]

I watched this video last night, so decided to try it this morning cycling back from the park. Only 4 minutes of the journey was on the actual road, in primary position, 2 lanes for the whole route. I had 2 drivers beep at me and one of them their passenger wound down their window and shouted abuse. Both cars were in the other lane while they did it, neither were slowed down in the slightest. We can cycle in whichever way we feel is safest, but until attitudes and culture change, the roads won't ever be safer for cyclists.

[@shm5547]

I recently had a van driver coming in the opposite direction beep at me for riding in primary. They were on the other side of the road! There was no traffic behind me and no-one was held up in the slightest. Well, some days later, whilst in my car (which has a proper loud dual air horn) I saw this same van driver with his window down, trying to pull out from a parking bay into the flow of traffic. I took great delight in giving him a massive blast of the horn as my bonnet drew level with his window! He didn't like it 🤣

[@glenn1534]

@@shm5547 I had a very similar thing happen a few months ago. The opposite side of the road was backed up. The van driver in that queue of traffic beeped and shouted at me to get in the cycle lane (which was actually a parking bay). There was traffic behind me, but it was a steep hill and I was holding people up for 2 minutes max. I hope you gave him a fright!

[@shm5547]

@@glenn1534 yep! he jumped with fright and mouthed off 👍 I was also careful to block him from pulling out 😁

[@StevieOnHisBike]

Spot on! The majority (I haven't seen it all) of AN's driving related content is great - top notch. His cycling related content, on the other hand, can be extremely poor. This is an example of his poorest! I don't know who he's referring to with regards "cyclist on social media" but to say that using secondary is inviting close passes is f*ing retarded. It's on a parr with people saying that a lone woman at night is inviting unwanted attention. If I rode in the way he suggests then I'd get my head kicked in. This is an example of someone who has read a book on a subject and thinks he knows everything when, in reality he knows very little. I'd like to know how many miles AN actually cycles in a year, at what times of day etc.

[@peter04345]

What a terrible message to give your viewers, I cycle and I drive. I rarely get close passed when driving but it is a near daily occurrence when cycling. A lot of cyclists ride left or in secondary because they are not confident enough to command the road, it says nothing about their willingness to be overtaken. You overtake only when it is safe to do so and it is the overtakers responsibility to do so safely. The message should be drive safely and you will have nothing to fear. Cyclists are not this powerful group who are forcing car drivers to overtake them by simply moving to the left. Remember you will always get to your destination, as long as you are not dead.

[@andyedwards7800]

Well said!

[@davem9204]

When I cycle if I'm in the secondary position (which is my default usually) it means I'm happy to be overtaken, as long as it's done safely. I often get a bit annoyed when a vehicle behind me refuses to overtake me when it's safe to do so, even though I'm giving them every chance to do so. I feel much safer when the vehicle is disappearing off into the distance in front of me, rather than stuck on my rear wheel.

[@alane7903]

Absolutely this! When I cycle I am confident enough to take primary when necessary (and deal with the hassle a certain type of driver will give); but others are not willing to risk the confrontation. By giving the message Ashley gives here, he completely ignores the effect on less confident (and therefore even more vulnerable) cyclists. The implication is that he feels their journies don't matter and they should not be on the road.

[@michaelgurd7477]

Cycling in secondary is not entrapment. Sorry Ashley but this video is sending the wrong message.

[@northeastcyclist1507]

100%. Before taking up cycling the only time I ever felt "invited" to overtake a cyclist is when they would beckon me to do so. Even then it was still my responsibility as a driver to make sure I did so safely.

[@peterrhodes6683]

Exactly, the title suggested he was going to talk about being trapped at the edge of the road, and all the problems that causes. Instead he comes up with this nonsense.

[@DanielDavies-il9kz]

“She was asking for it”

[@Mw9d-m8n]

“Doing it for content”. Oh the irony.

[@lloydy1312]

It doesn't matter if you are riding in primary or secondary. If a car decides to overtake you, then they need to give adequate space or not overtake. If you ride in secondary it doesn't mean you are fair game for a close pass. So of course they should still be reported. No it's not entrapment. If they are passing closely, it doesn't matter if you are primary or secondary. It's a close pass all the same. It's on the driver to pass safely. isn't this obvious?

[@northeastcyclist1507]

Yep this is a really bad take from Ashley. I ride secondary sometimes in anticipation of the driver having a gap to pass safely. If I ride primary I'm more likely to get abuse including verbal and physical, or it would be "my fault" if they then close pass because even though they're in the other lane I'm "too far over". Can't win. But it's all nonsense. Drivers are licensed. Cyclists aren't. Drivers should know the onus is on them to operate their vehicle safely, or suffer the consequences.

[@Pystro]

Riding in secondary is done to make it _easier_ for drivers _to give you_ enough space while passing, not an invitation to pass the cyclist with insufficient space. I would imagine that how much space the cyclist prefers to be given depends on the cyclist. If some cyclists report you when you're passing them at 75cm distance while they're in secondary, then I would say it has more to do with the cyclist generally not wanting to be passed at that closely, irrespective of primary or secondary. I am assuming that both me and Ashley are fine with being passed at a distance of down to a meter or so. But if someone was NOT fine with being passed that closely, then they would naturally move towards the curb when they expect a pass; and it would be ridiculous to ask them to stay _closer_ to the passing cars as a sign that those need to give them _more_ space. This whole thing only works if anyone who passes a cyclist does so at 1.5m (whenever at all reasonable). If you use the argument "some cyclists are fine being passed at 1m", then you'd keep people off the road who have the reasonable expectation that they're passed at 1.5m. And once those are off the road, you could say "but some of the remaining cyclists are fine with being passed at 50cm", and so on until the only cyclists remain on the road who are crazy enough to be fine with being passed with an inch of distance.

[@gavlptvbk8665]

You’ve done some good videos recently but this is bad; it doesn’t matter what position the cyclist is in, give them plenty of room.

[@Zombiesbum]

How is it bad? It's the truth. If you've moved over to the side, it is inviting cars to overtake. It's like if you stayed to the right before getting off a roundabout, it's inviting the entrance (right before your exit) to pull out (if they are going left). If you don't use the space, people will think you don't need it. People are not mind readers.

[@maskofsan1ty]

​@@Zombiesbumdrivers should know when it's safe to overtake.

[@Zombiesbum]

@@maskofsan1ty Except you've got to live in a thing called reality and look after yourself. Don't give people the space/opportunity to make mistakes and be prepared to adjust to someone elses mistake.

[@maskofsan1ty]

@@Zombiesbum correct. My default road position is primary. But that requires a level of experience and confidence on the road that a lot of cyclists won't have and is not without it's own risk. The issue here is the attitude of people in cars. The victim blaming is tiresome.

[@Zombiesbum]

@@maskofsan1ty This "victim blaming" rhetoric is just as tiresome. There are a lot of the cases where people say "victim blaming" and it's unwarranted, and people get sick of that sort of attitude. And "both sides" (car users and cyclists) can be as bad as each other when it comes to their attitude towards another group of people. There are no shortage of bad drivers or bad cyclists.

[@edj4833]

3:10 is this "entrapment" really that common though? Most cyclists like myself don't run cameras, and of those that do, is it really a high proportion that are looking for "content" or deliberately looking to trap motorists? Maybe a couple of high profile KZbinrs, but it seems rare. Most cyclists who purchase cameras are probably motivated by safety and the ability to prove fault if there was an accident. I have considered a camera for that reason, if there was an incident then there would be proof or clarity for insurance purposes. I also don't understand the motivation for manufacturing incidents, if I did run a camera I woukd capture enough poor quality passes not to have to bother setting any up.

[@StanleyRestall]

@@tonypaddler Man with problems about click baiting posts click bait video 🙂

[@mrcellophane99]

Are drivers with Dash Cams setting out to trap other motorists, looking for KZbin content or just making sure that, if they are in (or see) an accident they are in a position to ensure the fault can be laid at the correct door.

[@CommutebyBicycle561]

@edh4833 I bought a camera to run because of the close passes, near misses, and the police watching a truck hit me on the sidewalk and do nothing about it. If I were to purposefully get into an altercation with a car, I would jump off and let the bicycle go under or into the car. Mostly taking smack, have not done such a thing. Feel like it sometimes though!

[@Velodrone]

Tell me, are shops that put sweets on open shelves "inviting" shoplifters to steal them? If they have CCTV to catch the people who do steal them, do you call that "entrapment"? No you don't. So stop making excuses for dangerous driving mentality. We have ended up with this cultural norm that it's somehow the cyclist's fault when drivers drive badly. And that it's not the responsibility of those poor hard done by pilots of two tonne metal blocks to know how to handle them safely around other people. Just so wrong - we don't take that apparoach with literally any other dangerous equipment and we need to stop doing so with cars.

[@catshoemike]

"are shops that put sweets on open shelves "inviting" shoplifters?" - that is certainly an argument I've seen put forward, and to some extent agree with, as a 30 year service police officer

[@Velodrone]

@@catshoemike you were a shit police officer then 🙄 You really think that shops should lock everything away otherwise it's their fault if it gets stolen?? Bad luck market traders, you all have to close - PC Mike here says you're asking for it. Wanna browse a book store? Nah, bad luck again. PC Mike says unless they're all in locked cabinets, it's fair game. Geez, it's no wonder the country's in state if that's *actually* the mentality in the police. We'd better hope you were just one rotten apple in the cart ...

[@shm5547]

So, in a nutshell, it's up to cyclists to ensure incompetent drivers remain on the roads.

[@SiCrewe]

Or, from the opposite perspective, it's up to drivers to ignore the actions of incompetent cyclists.

[@shm5547]

@@SiCrewe it's up to drivers to accommodate incompetent cyclists

[@shm5547]

@@zbf5h89ftb well, basically Ashley is saying if you cycle along minding your own business in secondary (which to be fair, is the road position most casual cyclists will default to) then you can expect incompetent drivers to put your life at risk. Furthermore, he thinks you're cycling like that on purpose to 'entrap' the errant motorist! Now, let's be clear, it really is not difficult to drive safely around cyclists. Even I seem to somehow manage to do it! (I've never seen an 'arrogant' or 'entitled' cyclist whilst I've been driving - just cyclists who give a friendly wave). So, why then, is it the cyclists' fault for riding in secondary when a driver overtakes carelessly or dangerously, in an illegal manner? Surely if they are that sh1t at driving, they ought not to be on the road in the 1st place?

[@SiCrewe]

@@shm5547 Doesn't really matter whether a cyclist is minding their own business or acting in a way common to "casual" cyclists. If they're not riding in a competent manner they have to take some of the responsibility when bad things happen. If we're going to make this an "us vs them" thing, it should be competent road users vs muppets... regardless of the preferred vehicle.

[@shm5547]

@@SiCrewe the only 'muppets' here, are the drivers who can't overtake safely. Are you really saying all cyclists should think on behalf of drivers and let them know when it's safe to overtake by using road position as a signal (despite it not being 'a thing')?

[@PotatisSlottet]

You've gotta remember you don't need a lisence to cycle, and you shouldn't need one to be safe! Cyclists shouldn't need to communicate to lisenced drivers when it is safe to pass.

[@out-backer7875]

I get you. This is the standard false equivalence argument from drivers eg cyclists should have insurance/road tax (doesn't exist) etc. Cyclists and pedestrians do not have a test to prove competency, drivers do. There is a world of difference between driving 1.5 tonnes of metal and a 10kg bike that is seemingly lost on intelligent people as soon as they get behind the wheel of a car.

[@Tailspin80]

I agree in the sense that it’s quite likely to trigger some drivers and put you in danger. Entitled drivers don’t like being told how to drive by puny push bikes.

[@wibbley1]

@@out-backer7875 like the pack of lycra racers on 10kg bikes who crashed into a pensioner whilst racing on their bikes at 50% above the speed limit, killing the pensioner?

[@grimsbyhackney479]

You shouldn't have to but would it hurt you if you did?

[@samueltaylor2757]

Easy to do on an e-bike without hills on a dual carriageway during quieter times. Try doing this during rush hour on tighter residential roads with moderate hills without an e-bike like yours Ashley. Motorists can get very impatient and abusive when they think you are ‘hogging the road’ below 10mph. Its very nerve-wracking unless you are fast

[@michaelgurd7477]

Well said.

[@steven482]

Well i grew up in a large market town, built on a really big hill. I learnt to gitgud. Even up nastiest of hills il be doing 20. Let motorists get pissy, make them wait if you have to. Now i live in brum and am currently too ill to cycle, but i have cycled in brum, i only have 1 word - lethal.

[@samueltaylor2757]

@@steven482 not everyone can get good. Even if you are fast, 20mph up phill is sprint effort for even seasoned riders. You shouldn’t have to be 20 mph up a hill level of fit to be treated like an equal road user. I ride in and around brum and yeah lethal is the word for it. People don’t care here, and I’ve seen aggression and heard of some horrific lethal incidents around here. I don’t blame anyone for feeling too intimidated to take primary. Many people feel too intimidated to ride on the road and instead choose the pavement.

[@steven482]

@@samueltaylor2757 And those people shouldnt ever get hassle for being on path. Gitgud or cycle on path. I mention to you as you might know it, i was close passed at about 6inches by a double decker while i was doing 35-40 on top of Hockley fly over. I was in secondary, but i wasnt expecting a learner bus to pass me doing at least 50

[@TheSpacecraftX]

??? Having L plates is entrapment too then? Just because angry motorists are more prone to driving badly when they see it? Less confident cyclists are bullied all the time into staying in secondary because they end up getting abuse, honking, and close passed when riding in primary. Most motorists don't know that we're using primary for safety, they just think we're being rude to them.

[@KevinKaneCanada]

Agree. My only concern is that some drivers will pass even if you're in primary! It's dangerous because they pass so closely and some even deliberately swerve toward you to reprimand you for "blocking the road." Others won't pass but blare their horn at you. So when you're in primary, you're still dangerously passed sometimes and you receive more horn honks than when you're in secondary. That's why some cyclists prefer secondary, as a hedge against careless and inconsiderate drivers.

[@davem9204]

I've seen plenty of cyclists who would be considered to be in 'primary' position as they are in the middle of the lane, but the road being straight, wide and clear, it is perfectly safe to overtake them with plenty of space. They are usually just sticking to the smoother part of the road, and avoiding having to swerve around pot-holes. With Ashley cycling on the dual-carriageway there, his primary position didn't prevent anyone from using the right-hand lane from overtaking him. A few cars might have been a bit caught out behind him in the left-lane due them either not planning ahead to get into the right-lane, or a bit of blocking from those in the right lane.

[@jerrytracey6602]

I understand what you are saying about using Secondary to signal other road users that it''s OK to pass, and Primary to signal that it isn't, but some of my anti-bike "friends" complain that cyclists are "blocking" when they use Primary. These riding positions make perfect sense, but motorists are completely ignorant about it and bluster about being held up. Drivers like this will still try to squeeze past even through a junction or by a traffic island, to punish the rider as much as anything. I've written elsewhere that bad motorists on two and four wheels regard junctions as an opportunity to overtake, and even more so when a bicycle is involved. I try to educate those friends of mine, but they just won't have it...

[@paulhayes6920]

I feel like I'm being told I'm a second class citizen. If I cycle in primary I'm deliberately getting in the way but if I choose secondary I'm now trying to entrap motorists!! We'd be much safer on the pavements when in a dangerous situation in urban areas. The problem for the cyclist is that though we were once the dominant form of wheeled transport (later than you might think and maybe still are in some parts of the world) we were forced from the pavemnets on to roads where we are now at best considered a nuisance. (Some cyclists are too reckless to be allowed on the pavements but aren't the million uninsured drivers a much bigger problem that the press seem to have neglected?)

[@davem9204]

In Uk, when was cycling the dominant form of wheeled transport? The safety cycle wasn't around much before the first motor cars, even though the car took a while to really become popular. But surely most wheeled transport was the horse and cart before cars became common? I'm judging this on old photos of the UK, where you'd see plenty of horse-drawn carriages but hardly any bicycles. In countries like China, certainly the bicycle was very much dominant until recent decades.

[@paulhayes6920]

Under 3 million cars registered in the UK in 1950 compared to over 30 million now. Also in 1950 12.4 billion miles were cycled (now under a quarter of that). My dad's family had bikes and M/bikes in the thirties (when car ownership doubled to nearly 2 million). Everyone had a bike. Cycling battalions (like the pals regiments) are commented on the Somme memorial at Thiepval. Cycling was., as now, a popular and cheap form of transport and recreation.

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

When I'm on my road bike, I'm dressed in my ''fighter pilot'' gear - the aero helmet, sunglasses, aero cycling kit, and daytime flashing lights. I find many drivers give me respect because they realise that here is a proficient and confident road cyclist. It's not always the case, but if you convey confidence and capability, you can get respected more. A very bright rear flashing light can really help during the day and at night.

[@Slinkton]

This is a bad take. It's a drivers responsibility to ensure there s enough space to safely overtake. Period. A cyclist isn't "asking for it" for being in secondary position.

[@cyclecam6328]

In general it's best to assume ignorance over malice. I've had a debate with a supposedly experienced club cyclist who insisted that hugging the kerb was the safest and most courteous thing to always do.

[@shm5547]

I know the type. See it as a badge of honour being comfortable being close passed by an HGV at 60mph. Usually part of the TT scene.

[@andyedwards7800]

What complete and utter dross. I cyclist in secondary is a cyclist in secondary. It should tell the driver nothing the driver makes the decision to overtake. A kid riding to school in secondary, a grandma riding to the shops in secondary is telling the drivers nothing and they should not have to make the decisions for the drivers. Just more of your click bait motornormativity rubbish. Stick to trying to educate the drivers you might have a clue about that

[@grimsbyhackney479]

What is "riding in primary" telling drivers?

[@lloydy1312]

@@grimsbyhackney479 Unfortunately most times it seems to tell them you are being arrogant and entitled. Most of these drivers haven't cycled other than on the pavement as a child, so don't understand. "Riding in primary" should be telling drivers that it's not safe to pass here.

[@DaveHines1]

I can’t help but think that the “roads” we have today are a result of entitled car driving bullies and easily offended cycling bullies . Come on all of you please play nice , it’s a shared space, we need to learn to coexist . 😃

[@ExtantThylacine]

I always thought it was the case that when you're in primary you're telling people: "absolutely no overtaking", but in secondary you're saying: "you may overtake when safe to do so". Should I be in primary when traffic coming in the opposite direction prevents a safe overtake? From my experience, if you're in primary people will force their way through regardless. There are times where I feel I should be in primary, but if I were I'd be putting myself at massive risk. Honestly, you really can't win as a cyclist. I've got 22 years experience of driving, but only six or so of cycling. I feel confident cycling in the carriageway, but do you think I could benefit from proper cycle training?

[@billycompston5260]

When moving to primary try holding out your arm with the palm towards the driver. It's a kind of "stay there" bit of body language that I use. I've found that most drivers will wait. And when approaching a junction I put myself in primary and I don't ever filter through. Something that seems to trigger even the most mild mannered drivers. That way I am saying I don't want more priority, just the same as every other road user.

[@slaterpenna2797]

I can think of more events where I was in secondary but later wished I was in primary than the other way around.

[@northeastcyclist1507]

​@@billycompston5260 I did this last week. Held my hand out as I moved to primary to stop van driver overtaking at lunch point with traffic island. He proceeded to drive alongside me/close pass whilst giving me a load of abuse after the pinch point. Thought I was doing him a favour from stopping him close passing. But since he knew better, he's now received a NIP from the police. Perhaps Ashley would think I did it for attention or it was entrapment 🤷‍♂️

[@qsterino]

In my decades of experience, briefly taking primary position (

[@douglas8707]

I only have half a decade of experience, but this includes 50,000 miles of riding on country and city roads. I have never been hit, and only had a small handful of truly close calls. Yes, taking primary can lead to horns, close passes, verbal abuse, spitting, and thrown objects, however I would die on this hill: going in primary position gives you control. If someone passes too close, you have half the lane to move away from them. Same if they swerve into you, or throw something at you, or spit at you, or try to corner you and shout abuse. In secondary, a close pass gives you minimal room to do anything.

[@qsterino]

@@douglas8707 I value the input, and the different point of view. However, I would point out an obvious double-bind in this. Primary position only reliably gives you room to evade towards the near-side when you aren't purposefully avoiding some hazard there. If you take primary position all the time, then sure, mostly you have freedom to evade towards the kerb - but you will also induce more instances of needing to evade. If you only use primary position when there is an obvious and visible hazard nearer the kerb (e.g, door zone) then you don't really have safe evasion space, but are also less likely to need it. The safest point along that line depends entirely on regional motorist attitudes - not the cyclists.

[@douglas8707]

@@qsterino why are you less likely to need safe evasion space just because there's a hazard in the lane? Many drivers who are willing to close-pass will not change that decision just because there's a pothole. I do see where you're coming from, but if a driver would close pass when you're in primary, I suspect they would also close pass when you're in secondary.

[@Tailspin80]

I don’t think Ashley has that much real experience of cycling and the amount of dangerous antagonism exhibited by some drivers.

[@paulhayes6920]

@@douglas8707 Blimey. You sound positively beatific! Isn't being spat at, threatened and having objects thrown at you stressful (as well as this assault)? I arrive at work a bag of nerves some days and just can't cope wit the treatment you describe.

[@williamstj1963]

I really enjoy both Ashley's cycling and driving channel, but today I am confused. Not riding in primary is a form of entrapment? People who pass dangerously are somehow lured into it by scheming cyclists? If I am driving along a road, doing less than a speed limit, is that entrapment because it may lead to someone dangerously overtaking? Or Maybe if I should approach roundabouts at speed becuase it might otherwise lead someone about to emerge to think they have more time than they do? I think close passes are far more likely from drivers who simply don't care, than people "fooled" into thinking they are being invited to pass by a rider not being in the middle of the lane. This looks remarkably like victim blaming to me.

[@AshleyNeal-JustCycling]

And when you look a little deeper into what I said, what message am I really trying to get across to motorists?

[@Wolfy11188]

I think it's pretty clear what's being said, there are certain cyclists like a certain Vine and Mikey that in multiple videos have opened up a window of opportunity for a car to overtake and essentially fabricated a scenario where the overtaking vehicle will be closer than the 1.5m advised by the highway code and it gives them content for their channels. It is still ultimately down to the decision of the driver to make the overtake safely as he said but like with many things, when given an opportunity there are many people that will take it, regardless of whether it is legal or not, thus the entrapment.

[@edj4833]

I appreciate what you are saying and there is something to what you say, but I do think that primary often reduces danger in key places, as you send a strong message that, no, there isn't room, and the average vaguely inattentive driver won't be tempted to try it. Secondary is a message that says, go on past, it's safe, and it's not a good position, statistically speaking, if you are passing through a pinch point where an overtake would be unsafe.

[@Tailspin80]

In most situations you can’t influence drivers and just have to hope they know what they’re doing. There are specific places where primary/ secondary are essential such as coming up to junctions with lane markings to turn right, single track roads etc., but on wide roads like this I just ride secondary and keep glancing at my mirror for approaching idiots.

[@laurencestubbs5531]

@@AshleyNeal-JustCyclingWhat is the message? I know you are not excusing close passes but I really don’t see what your underlying message is for motorists here

[@glenn1534]

I once moved over to primary coming up to a pinch point. It seemed like the driver behind saw this as me purposely holding him up, so he drove as close as he could to get past. Pretty common for that to happen...but it was a bus. An inch closer and the driver could have killed me easily.

[@northeastcyclist1507]

I did this last week. Just a small van but heard him trying to accelerate as we approached a traffic island. Assumed primary and held my hand up/gestured at the island. Primary had the desired effect as he didn't overtake at the pinch point, but he then close passed/got alongside to give me a torrent of abuse after it. Tried to keep myself safe and prevent him from getting points but the police have just confirmed he's getting a NIP in the post 🤷‍♂️ Mind you I did assume secondary after the pinch point, assuming he would use the large hatched area in the middle of the road to overtake. Perhaps it was my fault after all. Entrapment as Ashley puts it.

[@WestYorkshireCycling]

Since July this year the police have taken action against over 80 drivers from evidence submitted. A good quantity of them happened while taking primary ahead of traffic islands, at junctions and on solid double white lines ! The idea that car drivers are being entrapped is a ridiculous turn of phrase. You either drive in accordance with the rules, laws and guidelines of the Highway Code or you don't. Drivers who close pass cyclists are the same drivers that go through red lights, use right turn only lanes at traffic lights to go straight forward, cut drivers up on roundabouts, fail to stop at zebra crossings and speed past schools. They are bad drivers and should be called out for being bad drivers.

[@dionspot]

Do some social media cyclists stay in the secondary position to encourage close passes? No, drivers have a choice. Simply avoid close passing cyclists, and you won’t be reported.

[@Umski]

Agree 👍 it has not a lot to do with social media when this is happening to hundreds if not thousands every day and not captured. I do a couple of short rides maybe twice a week and have to submit at least one report amongst the dozens of safe passes- I don’t publish them, they go to the Police who review and take action to remind those drivers it is unsafe to pass in the way that they do - when I need to take primary I do, but I can’t prevent drivers passing unsafely if I’m in secondary if another car is coming the other way and the gap isn’t quite wide enough - that’s their poor judgement - I’d be weaving around all over otherwise 🙄

[@powernab8457]

HEAR HEAR! 😂😂

[@wibbley1]

@dionspot.... or bikeys could stop wetting their knickers when a vehicle passes them. Funny how bikeys bleat on about 'close passes; but are then happy to weave in and around traffic when it suits them and 'close pass' pedestrians on zebra crossings.

[@dionspot]

@@Umski Totally agree hundreds / thousands of drivers pass cyclists every day without any issues. But if we are to believe Ashley, it only takes one cyclist riding in the secondary position to encourage close passes. Even if that were true, how thick does he think drivers are?

[@grahambonner508]

Secondary position can be a way of saying "ok to pass" or it could be that the cyclist is not confident enough to ride in primary in a given situation, bare in mind also that riding in primary can sometimes provoke a punishment pass, verbal abuse or other aggressive response afterwards. The decision to pass or not ultimately lies with the motorist, I know the cyclist can have a significant part to play but if the motorist performs the manoeuvre safely then there is unlikely to be any issue. Most of the time the way to perform the manoeuvre safely is to loose any impatience and aggression.

[@rosssaxe]

Yes, this is the crux of it. Primary position is a hint that many cyclists use to suggest that this is not a safe time to overtake. But secondary position sends no message at all, precisely because there are so many different reasons why a cyclist might ride that way, and drivers need to use their own judgement whether and when to overtake. And of course, this "use your own judgement" non-message sent by secondary is the same message being sent by drivers pretty much all the time, since driving has no real equivalent of primary. Primary is an extra thing that cyclists can do to help drivers out, but it can't be considered mandatory.

[@grahambonner508]

@@rosssaxe Yes. There are things we can do when trying to send the "ok to pass" message, like a deliberate and exaggerated movement from primary to a position close to the road edge, a speed change, a shoulder check, or even a wave or thumbs up. But as you say, the motorist should not interpret secondary position alone as a message, and any pass should always be done safely even if not with >1.5 meters clearance. I have said many times that passing clearance alone does not make a manoeuvre safe or dangerous, speed, vehicle size and type should also be considered. I appreciate that this would complicate the issue for many motorists.

[@rosssaxe]

@@grahambonner508 Yeah, the exaggerated swerve to the left is a good one that I use. I'm generally wary of waving people on, but it can have its place if you've double and triple checked that it's definitely safe.

[@goodyeoman4534]

The mistake is to allow yourself to fall into the trap of categorising people into broad categories of drivers and cyclists. There are horrible people in both groups and also fair and honest ones. It's more of a class thing. There are unfortunately some very obnoxious and impatient people about these days: some of them drive big cars and try to bully other road users, some of them ride around on bikes and seek to grass people up to the police for their dopamine hit.

[@tonymc90]

If you’re in secondary, it is not a guidance for drivers to come past. Drivers have to assess for themselves. There are experienced confident cyclists, but there are plenty that are not, who will not take primary where close passes really wreck confidence

[@QiuEnnan]

I agree to some extent, but The Highway Code clearly states you have to make sure it's safe before overtaking and leave plenty of room, and I think if you tried to defend yourself in court by saying 'but the cyclist was on the side of the road so I thought they were fine with being passed dangerously' your defence would be immediately rejected. Yes, the 1.5 metre rule is a guide and not backed up with legislation, but remember that you can still be charged with careless and dangerous driving, though this depends on the situation

[@GolfWhisky]

I think that's a strawman. Ashley is not suggesting that anyone use that defence in court. He's actually advising people to take care and not get points by not breaking the rule. He's just pointing out that as cyclists, and I can vouch for this, we often move to secondary to let cars pass and I personally tolerate the pass being a bit closer when I'm expecting it and it is safe. I also get annoyed by cars hovering behind me for miles, so I want to help them go past. So Ashley is simply pointing out how we use our positioning on a bike to send messages to drivers. He's also warning viewers that they don't know what type of cyclist they are behind. They might be behind me, or they might be behind some of these KZbinr "cam-itis" types who deliberately rig incidents.

[@AshleyNeal-JustCycling]

@QiuEnnan try and get the proper message from this video as I've seen issues with your positioning while you are riding.

[@gingernutpreacher]

​@@GolfWhiskyI have had 3 cyclists tell me they think 1.5 meter is to wide and they would like a hard a fast fuelled not a guide of about 1 meter thought's?

[@Gopher31]

I’m more concerned with not being hit then winning and ensuing court battle.

[@QiuEnnan]

@@AshleyNeal-JustCycling I did - that's why I said I agree to some extent; but I thought you were implying that you're somewhat to blame if you get closely overtaken if you're riding near the edge of the road

[@maskofsan1ty]

I love that Ashley things the standard of driving around cyclists in the uk is so good that cam cyclists have to trick drivers into endangering them so they can get footage...

[@WestYorkshireCycling]

He's is a driving instructor

[@Umski]

Big difference between theory and reality if you cycle a lot - many drivers just get even more impatient when in primary which then results in an even closer pass ime - all that weaving in and out has the perception to some drivers that you are doing it to annoy them and it’s a balance. I think on this occasion Ashley is conflating theory of riding with the reality - aside from those on social media who *may* be playing the system a bit…

[@johnmoss7227]

when I was cycling to school in the 1960s, I used to love it when a bus or lorry came by as they used to 'suck' me along, helping me get up hills etc. This applies only to those drivers who pass us mindfully, not the selfish idiots who cut us up!

[@DavidShepheard]

We used to have "Public Information Films" on the TV all the time, telling people about stuff like the Green Cross Code and the dangers of leaving lit cigarettes. This thing with bikes going in primary and secondary position is clearly the sort of thing that should be shown on TV on a regular basis. Maybe motorists could put themselves in the mindset of a cyclist if someone in the public information films was saying: * Are they preparing for the hazzard of a junction? * Are they preparing for the hazzard of a side road? * Do they need to avoid the "door zone" of parked cars? * Are they about to turn right? And the public information film should also address cyclists too: * Are you keeping up with the flow of the traffic? * Is the traffic ahead of you pulling away? * Is it safe for you to drop to secondary position so that you can invite some vehicles to overtake you? * Do you have enough space to invite an overtake, before you need to go back into primary position? If they kept showing this sort of thing on the TV, and discussing various aspects of it, I think they could start to get the behavior expected by the Highway Code across. I think that road planning officers could also do a lot to improve any dangerous junctions over the years. If we improve road layouts, we can have the road tell the road users how to use it.

[@Jakeyboy93]

Life long cyclist here and driver of 14 years. Spot on Ashley! This is the most encouraging video of your cycling content yet. Too many cyclists complain it's giving us a status. I also think many of these people do not drive or have a thought of where you should be in position. BE A PART OF THE FLOW! ⭐

[@wallaceshackleton1889]

Ashley, your helmet is not fitted correctly. Try this test. Put your hand on the front of the helmet and move the helmet up. It if moves and exposes the front part of your head then that is exactly what would happen if you were to crash. Adjust the buckles for the straps either side of your ears up to and just under your ears. Repeat the test. You should be able to get two fingers comfortably under your chin strap. You may as well not be wearing a helmet if it is badly fitted. Good point about the entrapment.

[@Adam_Boots]

I don't drive or cycle personally so I don't have experience with either but this is what I feel I picked up. Motorists should not assume that just because a cyclist is in the secondary position that it is perfectly safe to pass. You still need to observe to see if there are any possible hazards or blind spots. Cyclists should know when it is best to assume primary position such as areas where it would not be safe to pass such as narrow lanes. Going to secondary in these unsafe areas will encourage unsafe passes by idiots. There is probably more I am missing. As I put before I am neither a driver or cyclist.

[@hammerofolympia3716]

You really can't win. I cycle and if i take primary to ensure my safety the same idiot will try to swerve into me as they overtake.

[@Adam_Boots]

@@hammerofolympia3716 Unfortunately there are always idiots who think they are the only ones that matter.

[@marcom9103]

Regardless of the cyclists decision to go secondary, as a driver I'm still not going to pass if it's not safe to do so, because I'm an adult and take responsibility for my actions as a driver. So no, if you take the lifestyle choice as a driver to pass a cyclist too close just because they took secondary, then rightly you may land up being prosecuted.

[@sarahdotcom]

I was in secondary the other day and a car passed me while another car was approaching from the opposite direction. So car 1 passed me without going near the centre line. It felt very close.

[@Shady-Shane]

a car will drive down the literal middle of the road to avoid speed bumps, but complain when a cyclist takes primary.

[@gmanmee6741]

Rediculous video. Trying to blame someone cycling in a normal manner to provide an excuse for a poor driver is not good

[@martinbutchers9497]

I had one a couple of weeks ago. I was riding along a A road for short distance before turning into a narrow country lane. There was a bend coming up just about where the narrow country Lane started. I was being followed by a lorry and I knew that he was going to overtake me or possibly overtake me. So I signaled early and moved out and you could clearly hear his engine back off as he realized what's the point of overtaking. If he had of overtake in me there was the possibly of someone coming around the corner so I looked after myself. Shortly after on the narrow country lane I saw a van coming up behind me so I picked up my speed a little bit and drove up to the point where some people have moved in and made like a little lay by/ passing place and then I gave way, I stopped and the van went past me and give me a nice very little toot, a thank you. Why do people ride down a narrow country lane for 5 miles with a car behind and then moan when they try to overtake in frustration. Look after yourself on the road tell people what you're doing and protect yourself. I have lights on my bike forward and back and I put them on like daylight runners. I have no intentions of driving in the dark but they're there to wake people up that there's a cyclist ahead more than a yellow fluorescent jacket in my belief. I purchased a light for my rear of my bike which is a little different. It's bright but it flashes red then blue red then blue and I thought that would make people think a little bit when they see it or to get me to be seen.

[@LakeDistrictcyclist]

Absolutely shocking that a driving instructor can say this nonsense. Never heard so much rubbish in my life. The most problems I have with cars is when in primary, most think you shouldn’t be on the road never mind taking the full lane up. It’s about drivers knowing the rules and sticking with them

[@AshleyNeal-JustCycling]

It's obvious you have missed the main point of this video which is actually directed at motorists. Now if you think a little deeper about what I said hopefully you can work it

[@TheOC1968]

If you take secondary, you still need your 1.5 meters. For me, most close passes occur when there isn't enough room due to on coming traffic. I'd expect the driver to hold back until it's safe to pass. Do you recommend moving to primary whenever a vehicle comes in the opposite direction? That doesn't sound safe.

[@Tailspin80]

Exactly. Ashley is great on car driving but I don’t agree with much of his cycling advice.

[@steven482]

Yes actually when stuff is coming other way, take primary. That way if somebody tries you have an extra 1m.

[@TheOC1968]

@steven482 sounds like a recipe for a rear shunt imo. I reckon the only real solution is more people cycling, so more people are aware of what a cyclist needs. We need a critical mass in order to change the road culture. I had a cycling holiday in Begium this summer and they are so far ahead in regards to priorities and cars taking the lead in protecting more vulnerable raod users. IMO Cycling is a scary activity in most of the UK, which is a shame.

[@Tailspin80]

@@TheOC1968 I’d like to see public information broadcasts on tv showing the sort of close pass clips etc that are on YT. Some motorists are unaware of the rules or principles.

[@steven482]

@@TheOC1968 and what is the law RE a rear shunt? It doesnt at all, yes some idiots will sit 6 inches off your rear wheel, HOLD your position until it is safe for them to pass. When you get pushed into curb the culprit would likely not stop or even notice if you come off. Good luck proving you just didnt get a wobble. Either is bad, but car drivers are quite happy to push you into curb but quite reluctant to bonnet you from rear. Trust me it works.

[@SilvioDiego]

I feel like the one looking for clicks is you by uploading a very missleading video which is a very fine example of victim blaming by putting the responsibility of a close pass on the most vulnerable road user.... to top it all up you ride an e-bike ... need I say more? it doesn't matter which position you ride, most drivers will understand when is safe to pass or not.... there are only a minority that see riding primary as an offence ...

[@AshleyNeal-JustCycling]

Keep on creating incidents and throwing out your prejudice comments. Pure cycle snobbery talking about e-bikes, cycling should be for everyone. I'm looking for clicks that much, I upload it on my second channel. Lol. Hopefully this video will make people like yourself think a little about your own riding, but I won't hold my breath as you think you ride perfectly.

[@peterwillson1355]

​@@AshleyNeal-JustCyclingI have seen plenty of driving instructors driving like complete w-kers.

[@scottlaaa]

I’m surprised Roadbiker isn’t here having a go 😂

[@SilvioDiego]

@@scottlaaa I'll tell him you're here 🤣🤣🤣

[@CommutebyBicycle561]

@@AshleyNeal-JustCycling "People like you." What an unjustified self-righteous douche bag!

[@DeBert]

Whenever you try out cycling in the Netherlands - which I can only encourage - please don't cycle with this mentality. We've got lots of roads without segregated cycle paths and this is not the way to go I feel.

[@genadineholychild]

If you're riding in Primary as Ashley was and doing the speed limit as he was that should never be an issue, what I think triggers drivers is someone in Primary and doing 5 mph.

[@shm5547]

Not so. Even if you drive at the speed limit it triggers some motorists! Actually, come to think of it, driving around carefully like a driving instructor is "entrapment" as it encourages drivers to tailgate and overtake in dangerous places, then they might appear on a driving instructors KZbin channel. That's not right.

[@glenn1534]

From experience, I'd disagree with this. I find that the closer to the speed limit I get when cycling, the more likely drivers are to beep and drive aggressively. On my commute I cycle down a hill steep enough to get me to almost 30mph - the speed limit. Often drivers will beep because I'm riding primary (there are potholes at secondary that I don't want to hit at 30mph on a bike), or they'll squeeze past in a terrifying move. When I'm cycling up the same hill on the ride home, barely getting past walking pace, I've never once been close passed or beeped at. People wait and pass when it's safe.

[@cyclecam6328]

4:51 When you're in secondary on a 2 lane road like this you're communicating "Im happy for two cars to pass me at the same time"

[@Tailspin80]

This is ridiculous. The rule is 1.5 m. If they can’t understand that then they probably don’t even know what a close pass is.

[@someguymatts]

When in primary position approaching a section of road with a parked car in the opposite lane. A driving school car had let a car through and then pulled out as I was entering the narrowing. As I was forced to move over the instructor was pointing at me as if to motion me to the side of the lane and be in secondary. Might explain the lack of understanding about cyclists taking primary

[@bigejit9994]

Painted ‘cycle lanes’ in the gutter suggest cycle riders should be there all the time even when there is no cycleway. I take primary in city traffic and at a speed to match vehicular speed yet i’ve been intentionally rammed out of the way on more than one occasion, overtaken when signalling and positioned in good time to turn right, honked at when making a right turn, verbally abused, missiles thrown at me, driven at by oncoming vehicles swerving onto the wrong side of the road, vehicles driven at me in a segregated cycle lane, cut in front of approaching junctions and pulled out on requiring drastic avoiding action on my part. Cycle positional theory is great but some of those in cars JDGAF about other peoples safety when faced with a body on a bike. I don’t run cameras either so I’m not looking for social media content or conflict, just a person trying to get to where I am going.

[@thomaselliot2257]

Sometimes motorists need to be more aware of the mindset of some cyclists.

[@roblalor1129]

There’s advantages and disadvantages to this. I’ve been out ahead of a right turn, been caught up and then had the car behind honk and get angry till they noticed I was turning right and quietly skulked away. Moving out is positive but really puts you in the line of fire at times and can get dangerous when you have an angry driver. At the same time I’ll use a shift left on a country lane to show I’m happy for them to go past even if it’s pretty narrow and moving left or right is good communication. The one I can never find a solution for is when you shift left on a wide section to let people through but then get a narrowing that gets very tight as then you’ve pinned yourself in by helping the first cars out. It’s hard to solve that without knowing the road well. Really for me most drivers are fine and will adjust speed if it is going to be tight but the real issue which has almost been forgotten by now is people passing a few inches from you at pace. In all scenarios that’s lazy and bad driving. Generally it’s the scenario for me. On country roads it’s normally well below 1.5 meters and I’m still happy cycling as it’s done right and you hear the car behind adjusting their driving, but during commuting hours or on rat run routes to new estates or school runs you get incidents that are just dangerous whatever you do.

[@stevestrange965]

One could argue that riding in primary is entrapment as you're encouraging susceptible drivers to get angry and make a worse pass than they would if you were in secondary.

[@M0odez]

Nice topic; plenty to discuss. It all falls under the art of body language which is difficult and there's a lot of subtlety beyond the scope of this video. A lot of people pointing out that they feel pressure and/or increased risk when using primary. It's bound to happen, especially with the key stereotypes (white vans, Chelsea tractors, boy racers, Audis etc.), and in this case you want to show them that you're looking for and taking any opportunity to get back into secondary and let them pass. If there's a gap in parked cars, consider going back into secondary AND slowing down to elongate that time in secondary so that they can pass (as opposed to the KZbin cyclist who would see parked cars 200 yards away and take the opportunity to stay in primary the whole time). If there isn't a good opportunity to use secondary, also consider opportunities to quickly turn into a side road or stop to let a queue of cars past and diffuse the situation. Adjust what you do according to how much of a problem driver you're dealing with. I think a key thing to be thinking about when in secondary is looking at oncoming gaps and being aware of situations where the car behind _probably shouldn't_ over take but there's a good chance that impatience or poor judgement is going to get the better of the driver. Being aware of this means you can anticipate the need to slow down if the situation develops further. This definitely falls into the umbrella of cases Ashley is talking about when he says that secondary "invites" dangerous overtakes. This is a key skill in so many driving and cycling situations; being aware of when you've left a _tempting_ opportunity for someone to misbehave, and being ready to fix the problem. One of the points of this video is you can use primary position to eliminate some of these cases where it makes sense to do so.

[@LewisSkinner]

I've been riding since I was 7, and using roads alone since I was 10. I only heard the terms "primary" and "secondary" in relation to road position when I was 32/33. This needs to be a part of the driving test, so that everyone understands why riders take the positions that they do.

[@jopearson3022]

Living in the Peak District, one of the big problems we have getting around as locals doing our daily business is all of the leisure cyclists riding along for miles constantly in primary at about 20mph maximum. The roads are narrow, and they just sit there for mile after mile riding the white line even when they could very easily move over into secondary to let the long line of traffic behind them pass safely. Sometimes they even spread into the opposite lane too, and several times I've come up to a blind bend and found myself faced with a pack of cyclists coming around it at speed with some of them on my side of the road. Usually this has resulted in me getting a mouthful of very crude abuse from them, often questioning MY road sense just because I'm a woman driver - despite the fact that THEY were on my side of the road... With behaviour like that, is it any wonder those of us living around here often see some leisure cyclists as unwelcome pests we could happily do without?

[@BrightonandHoveActually]

Generally it is not single cyclists that cause me problems, it is packs of club cyclists who refuse to work with other road users and insist on riding two abreast. Rule 66 of the Highway Code says: "Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so". I don't want them to stop. I just want them to take a position which allows me to work my way along their "crocodile" as and when it is safe. So go into single file. Space out a bit. Sit in primary until it is safe them move to secondary. I will then be able to pass one and sit between them and the next one until the next safe place and so on until I have passed them all. A "group" can be as few as two.

[@TravisandSigrid]

When I cycle in secondary, I do it because I don't want the cognitive load of deciding if it's safe for whoever is behind me to overtake - I'm essentially handing that responsibility to them (which is where it belongs, really). When I know it's not safe, I take primary to protect myself. Over time I've come to distrust driver's judgement, so I mostly just stick to primary these days. It's not common to have safe places to overtake in London anyways. I hadn't really considered that secondary would be an invitation to overtake. It SHOULDN'T be, which I think is why people are complaining here, but in reality as you point out many drivers will take it that way. Interesting observation.

[@worldfire956]

Okay so i just went out for a long cycle on some rural roads to implement this. Most of the passes were aokay up until the very end. I was approaching a roundabout and took primary and a great big honking SUV passes within a metre of me into the roundabout. Felt quite nasty tbh. And this is my problem with it, people will bully you regardless.

[@TheMirrorGuy]

You are spot on Ashley, take prime to *discourage* an overtate (not stop). Then take secondary when not required to discourage. I made a video about this myself many years ago.

[@AshleyNeal-JustCycling]

I'm really surprised how many cyclists don't use this mindset.

[@TheMirrorGuy]

@AshleyNeal-JustCycling What is more concerning is the total contempt you get should you dare offer sensible advice. The one thing I often point out is, that I'm not the person who is regularly coming into conflict with other road users. 👍🏻

[@peterwillson1355]

We can tell you're not a cyclist: you get out of breath riding an E-bike....😂😂😂

[@grimmar80]

Precisely! I get the feeling he only got the bike to appear less prejudice toward cyclist. He travels occasional, short stint trips on wee roads, on an electric bike. I've cycled between 3-6 days a week for the last 30 years and I know a poser when I see one. Him and a bicycle is a PR stunt.

[@AshleyNeal-JustCycling]

Lol. Cycle snobbery at its finest. I thought cycling should be for everyone. 4:38 what speed am I doing and is electrical assistance still active? And I'm doing that speed on a 20+ kg e-bike. What type of bikes do you two ride? Strava roadies by any chance?

[@badabing8884]

The issue for me is that cyclists on the road have to keep making decisions: where they are cycling, whether to go primary or secondary, especially when passing junctions, avoiding potholes and drainage covers. The duty of care is still on the driver behind to take care of the more vulnerable road user and give them the space of 1.5m., they are protected in 1 and half tonnes of metal. Cyclists are not.

[@wibbley1]

@badabing8884 duty of care is on the bikey to ride safely and not like a knobber. Do you not think that a car driver is not constantly making decisions when they are driving?

[@badabing8884]

@@wibbley1 there’s a hierarchy of road users now. Cyclists are above car drivers in the hierarchy. Go update your knowledge. FYI I drive as well as cycle.

[@wibbley1]

@@badabing8884 Typical arrogant bikey comment, somehow thinking that they entitled. Somehow this hierarchy allows them to run red lights, weave around peds on zebra crossings and generally be as lawless as possible on the roads. duty of care is on the bikey to ride safely and not like a knobber. Do you not think that a car driver is not constantly making decisions when they are driving?

[@matthewdray83]

there is one thing in your demonstration here which i think is misleading. you are riding an e-bike your speed matches the traffic quite well. a pedal cyclist will be going quite a bit slower. you are less likely to get an impatient driver force pass whilst you are in primary . however i agree with your message here, when i ride secondary i am making a conscious indication that i am happy with you passing.

[@laurencestubbs5531]

I don’t really understand what your bugbear is and why you perceive that the videos you receive show a degree of entrapment. I think it is fair to say that most close passes happen when the cyclist is in secondary but often the most dangerous are when in primary and the driver is undeterred. It really is hard to know what to do at times. I do find your videos about correct road positioning helpful however.

[@timothywiles6752]

I think that its some what of an unfair expectation to put that on new cyclists. It can feel bery confrontational to go into primary position and ive found its lot more likely to lead to impatient and andry road use to honk and shout at you for not being over to the left. I think it takes time to develop that confidence and take your place in the road (ive got subjact access request on going for an incident I had recently with a bus driver who thpughh cyclists needed to be in secondary at all times, ill pass it on for your thoughts when ive got it)

[@wibbley1]

@timothywiles6752 ....which is exactly why there should be a riding test for all bike risers, so they are given the correct tuition to ride safely and confidently on the road.

[@russellalexander5800]

​@wibbley1 did you see the bit at the end of Timothy's post where he said the bus driver (presumably well trained and licensed) thought that cyclists should always be in secondary position. No amout of cyclist training can safeguard against punishment from bullies in busses.

[@mm3nrx]

Close pass nearly 50% of the time, people BOMBING down the outside lane to cut me up on roundabout's. Yes I have a gopro on my bike but the police do nothing when I send evidence. I am also insured due to the amount of stupid and crazy driving I witness.

[@scottvessey915]

Primary or secondary, social media user or not, a vulnerable cyclist still deserves to be given the correct amount of passing space by overtaking vehicles. Moving back into secondary isn't "inviting" an overtake in the black and white way that you describe.

[@PleiadesImprezaT2000AWD-l4l]

Drive, ride, walk or run like you're on camera, you probably are.

[@calvinjonesyoutube]

Its basically body language. Secondary is being submissive and ceding space. Primary is being assertive and commanding space. I think for a lot of people its unconscious, not deliberate and it represents a lack of training or experiance. It is unfortunate as generally the more scared you are by heavy traffic, big vehicles etc., the more you end up in the gutter being close passed. I think education is the only solution. You are helping with this.

[@Tailspin80]

It’s like a chihuahua being assertive to a Bully XL. It doesn’t always end well ☠️

[@billycompston5260]

I don't have a camera recording when I cycle. But sometimes I wish I did. My most regular route is through Kilwinning and then up through "The Three Towns" and finishing in Largs. Fantastic road with magnificent scenery. The last little climb up Irvine Road to the Haylie lights is right at the end of my almost 40k run. Strava has it as 8.4% at it's steepest dropping to 3.5% for the last 150-200 metres. So I am in secondary as I am very slow up this stretch. In fact, I'm usually fairly knackered at this point. The top of the hill is a junction that is also a blind summit. Most drivers give me a decent amount of space but on 4th September this year a car started passing me just at the lights, they didn't see the other car coming in the opposite direction. Instead of abandoning they closed to within a few inches of me. I honestly thought I was going to be pushed right off the road. In years of road cycling this was the closest pass I have ever experienced. I caught up with the driver opposite Largs station (they gained no ground on me whatsoever at the risk of injuring me) and I indicated to the passenger that I wanted "a word" and they obliging put their window down. The driver wouldn't even look at me or acknowledge me in any way. I was as invisible there as I was at the Haylie lights. From now on I will ride this section in primary no matter how slowly or how much I hold up the traffic flow. Some drivers simply cannot be trusted to behave responsibly. And most drivers have no realistic sense of how much physical effort is required when cycling uphill. And I do need to get a helmet cam. I don't want to be "that guy" making a fuss but some drivers need the fine and the points before the injure or kill someone.

[@PleiadesImprezaT2000AWD-l4l]

Difficult hill that. In honesty, I'm usually on the pavement up the S if its clear. I don't know if you go through that junction from the other direction, I can never decide whether to move out early and block the straight on lane or keep in the left turn lane until near the top.

[@billycompston5260]

@@PleiadesImprezaT2000AWD-l4l I don't often go the other way. (Train home is too tempting) But when I have I start looking for a gap quite early and then move out into primary when the lights have just turned red. That way drivers are less triggered as they are going to be held up at the light anyway. But once over the hill I give it as much as I can down the other side and I hold primary through the bends.

[@gm_matthew]

I’m not a cyclist myself but I think this is a good idea, using primary to discourage overtaking when it is not safe to do so. Sure there’ll be some motorists that get annoyed by you “hogging the road”, but they’re exactly the sort of people that would pass you too closely if you were in secondary anyway. Personally I don’t think most cyclists that make social media content are riding in secondary on purpose to encourage close passes from motorists, I think more likely it’s that they don’t know any better.

[@defragsbin]

It makes sense, but there's a flip-side to it: when you transition from secondary back to primary, I'd be worried about cars overtaking as I do it. If you're frequently swapping from primary to secondary and back due to road conditions (junctions, potholes, parked cars) I wonder what the point is. In this clip, Ashley moves back to secondary to allow cars to overtake him, then he immediately catches them at a junction. At that point, why not stay in primary? The answer is sadly that many motorists are very impatient and think you're holding them up, even when that's not the case.

[@mikewade777]

I literally only use secondary to allow passing space. Not have them follow behind me for nearly a a mile, with numerous opportunities to pass. Not to long ago I ended up stopping in a lay-by because the car behind was building up traffic, and at a point six inches from the kerb with a clear passing space!!!

[@grahambonner508]

I do agree that some cyclists and motorists with cameras ride/drive a certain way to get content.

[@jacobsolomon7785]

I just hate how some cyclists deliberately put themseleves in danger. I drive home often at night in a road with no street lighting which is 60mph, theres often a cyclist or two cycling along, sometimes with only reflectors and a tiny light in front, when the pedestrian path next to the road is a shared cycling and pedestrian path and it would be much safer for them to go on there. I really dont understand it, its like they're trying to get hurt.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

I ride pretty much identically to Ashley. If the road is narrowing, dangerous to pass from behind, I take up primary. When its OK for cars to pass, I take secondary and thank them.

[@Faluzeer]

There will always be some people willing to get exposure / clout by doing outrageous things on social media, however I do not believe that the majority of cyclists fall in to this category. Sadly it seems that a considerable amount of motorists believe / expect that a cyclist should/must always be in secondary and are not shy on voicing that opinion.

[@GMBasix]

In some lanes there is little difference between primary and secondary because the lane is narrow. The Highway Code advises at least 50cm from the kerb. It doesn’t specify centred (front wheel), and like any other vehicle, I take that to be from my left-most part (elbow/handlebar). There are lots of reasons for this minimum - debris, defects, space to negotiate the unexpected… I take the view that I should be able to signal left at any time without having to move further out or put a pedestrian in the footway at risk of a punch.

[@ianclunie9753]

Most drivers understand cyclists can and should take primary sometimes, but there’s a significant and intimidating minority who view this as cyclists being selfish or entitled and then drive aggressively as a reaction. It’s not easy being in the right when you’ve got some nutjob on your back wheel tailgating and beeping their horn.

[@Tailspin80]

I rarely ride on multi lane roads. It’s too dangerous and you can’t control the behaviour of cars which are likely to pass at 60+ mph. Switching frequently between secondary and primary in this situation just adds to the danger when bad drivers come up to pass. And yes, there are a lot of bad drivers that don’t give a sh*t about pesky cyclists.

[@bromptinowner763]

I remember councils would sweep up the kerbs back in the day, now riding to avoid all the crap that accumulate there, that could well put me in a primary position but so be it !!! Drivers do exactly what they want these days !!

[@PedroConejo1939]

I think the key here is not to watch the videos of those who seem to exist in a state of perpetual conflict with other road-users. Everyone has the occasional incident, but if you're getting enough footage to keep a channel going, you're almost certainly doing something wrong.

[@smilerbob]

Speaking of people in perpetual conflict, have you seen the footage of a taxi driver moving into a cycle lane to allow a fire engine to pass and the cyclist getting all narked about it?

[@QiuEnnan]

Not in London where the number of incidents is ridiculous

[@GiraffeCubed]

I'm guilty of watching some of these people semi-regularly, even though I disagree with the way the ride sometimes (more than sometimes for some). You can't knock them in the comments because the viewer base is usually a bit of an echo chamber. I suppose even a dislike and moving along is still giving them views. The best solution is probably not to bother watching them at all. If nobody's watching -- they've got nobody to bait reactions for.

[@PedroConejo1939]

@@smilerbob No, I'm really going cold turkey on the genre.

[@smilerbob]

@@PedroConejo1939 Understood and was only wondering as it has been retweeted / reposted quite a few times over the last 24-48 hours I am trying to refrain from watching them but occasionally one catches my eye…I’ll go hang my head in shame

[@IThinkItsMe]

Ashley I feel like we need to add into the conversation that road surfaces may also detemine your position albeit momentarily and offer a cue to motorists. Just to be clear I am not advocating for poor overtaking. Also having passed my bike test a year ago I find myself doing overshoulder checks in my car. How has your recent return to motorcycling affected your cycling? Are you doing your life savers more often?

[@michaelgurd7477]

For motorists doing a close pass is a bit like speeding, both are a choice they make and both can get them points and a fine.

[@peterwillson1355]

Don't agree with you at all. And you need to do many more shoulder-checks. You are clearly not an experienced cyclist.

[@bigted1347]

What a load of tosh . Cycling in secondary still means someone passing has to pass a cyclist in a safe manner and ONLY when it is safe to do so . There is a inference when someone holds a drivers license that they understand this basic information as contained in the Highway code . Stop giving your opinion and stick to stating facts .

[@cyclecam6328]

In primary position you're a red light and in secondary you're a green. But green does not mean go

[@maxkendal5152]

I try to take the secondary position and get cars past when I consider it safe. I don't like slowing down drivers when I don't need to and prefer to control when the pass me.

[@kenbrown2808]

when I was still able to cycle, I never had an issue with being passed, as long as there wasn't contact or a need for evasive action. subsequently, in my state, because of a number of unfortunate crashes - I don't know what that number is, but one happened in my hometown - a law was passed that a motorist cannot drive so close to a cyclist that if the cyclist has a spill, the motorist will be unable to avoid hitting them. I think it is a very good way to word the law.

[@TheSmallFrogs]

I tend to question Ashley's take on cycling behaviour a lot more than his take on driving behaviour, but in this case I think it's spot on. It's not got so much to do with cyclists "inviting" drivers to overtake, though, as the basic fact that motorists will try to squeeze through a gap they think they can fit through, but not through one they think they won't. Reduce the available gap and the problem decreases. It never goes away completely, because there are always going to be bellend drivers, just as there are always going to be bellend cyclists who get in the way for the sake of it. I actually don't see a fundamental problem with riding in primary in most urban situations. Drivers should treat cyclists as vehicles occupying a lane, and should overtake accordingly, by using the lane alongside. On most two-lane urban roads, that means that you can't safely overtake a cyclist at all (regardless of where they are in their lane) if there's oncoming traffic or you can't see far enough ahead. It doesn't really matter whether you cross the centre line with two wheels or four - if there's someone coming the other way, you'll hit them or cause them to swerve. The main exception is where you've got wide enough lanes to allow vehicles past safely without crossing lane markings. In this case, I agree it's important to use the road space with that in mind. Nevertheless, it's important to bear in mind what other people's perception of your behaviour may be. We don't have to agree with their perception, but we do have to accept that people have their perceptions. And if a following driver perceives that a cyclist is taking up "too much" road space, they are likely to behave in an undesirable way. This can be avoided by not taking up "too much" space in situations where it's safe to ride in secondary, even if your choice of primary or secondary makes no difference to whether the car can overtake.

[@tootles74]

100% some cyclist do it for clicks and entrapment,did you see the clip on x with the taxi moving into the cycle lane to let the fire engine past? The Taxi driver indicates in plenty of time what his intention is,The cyclist filming has plenty of time to brake and make it a non event but makes a big deal out of it by not slowing down and trying to berate the taxi driver for doing what the majority of people would have done in letting an emergency vehicle past safely.

[@WestYorkshireCycling]

To be charged and prosecuted in this country, it has to reach a very high bar including with driving offences. There has to be an 80% chance of being successful in court.

[@hicky62]

Was you expecting to get 'rained on' by the cycling community or the weather? As a cyclist of more years than I care to remember, I have since watching some of your videos, trying to use primary more often. I've always cycled further from the kerb than some, I now recognise its not far enough in some situations. However, the onus is on a following vehicle to overtake when it is clear and safe to do so. This has always been the case not just because of the new guidance of 1.5 meters. I live in a rural area and cycling along an A road in primary is not always possible, though I'm open to being educated if you wish to join me one day. The real issue I have with close passes here, is the speed that many overtake at. Being close passed at 50 or 60 mph or an HGV is not pleasant. The other issue is vehicles overtaking closely when the other lane is totally empty, or before/on a blind bend. I report many, though not all close passes, and my local force, Dyfyd Powys, have told me most result in driving courses. I know a couple have ended up in court because they contested the charge. But, I have never tried to entrap any driver. As an aside, I will be posting a close pass compilation this weekend.

[@tpfrobsonable]

I tend to think it's up to drivers to decide whether it's safe to overtake me or not and they nearly always get it right. On a winding country lane the opportunities might have passed in the second it takes for me to move to the left and for the driver to realise I am inviting an overtake. The only time I move into the centre of the the road is when an attempted overtake would positively endanger my life, if I'm about to turn right or am approaching yellow bollards in the middle of the road, for example.

[@1988dgs]

I drive a marked vehicle so have to take it to an extreme, I go right into the other lane, right at the far kerb. This means I am stuck behind bikes for longer than I would like in places, but don’t need a ticket or a visit to court. I have seen cyclists here sit close into the kerb then dive across the road as a vehicle is passing to claim a close pass. Also I have stopped riding on the road because I know the pressures it puts on vehicle drivers

[@shm5547]

I think you should just realise you're not cut-out to be a driver.

[@999wilf999]

It might be an age thing, the only formal cycle training I ever did was cycle proficiency at school in the eighties, and we were only ever taught to ride just beyond the edge of the drain covers. Once you've grown up being taught one thing, changing that can be a little tricky.

[@Jonc25]

Of course they are. So are car, truck, van and soon pedestrians with body cams.😮

[@MrTypo-kc6ib]

I've recently been nearly run over twice now while walking on the pavement. I'll be getting a body cam!! 😟😟

[@smilerbob]

No E-Scooters on the list I see 😉

[@smilerbob]

@@MrTypo-kc6ib I have been driven at twice while on the pavement. Once while walking back from my local drinking establishment and someone was “having a laugh” but failed to see the 6 inch wall and almost lost control avoiding it. The second time was a taxi driver trying to avoid a 5 second wait to turn left. Both times were not amusing in the slightest and wish I had a body cam for them

[@glenn1534]

@@smilerbob Frightening. several times I've had drivers mount the pavement and drive at me because they couldn't wait a couple of seconds for me to pass the part of the pavement they were trying to park on.

[@shm5547]

@@smilerbob try walking in primary - apparently that works! 😉

[@tomlawless4406]

Do enough people understand what a cyclist’s position even means though also you should try a mirror while cycling won’t hurt your neck as much ;)

[@cluckeroo]

I've been riding bikes 40+ years, I am a roadie, and I was a London bike messenger for 8 years - and I have to chime in - it's really changed since electric bikes came in. You can go primary/block/stop people overtaking and immediately turn left etc as long as you can go fast enough not to actually hold traffic up. Electric bikes are weird because they are quick off the mark but then suddenly become an obstical for other road users because of the 15mph restriction, pedal power is about maintaining some momentum (ride the line) but electric bikes have a wholly different stop/start characteristic. Accidents happen at junctions, so go before or after the cars.