D2jsp is AMAZING(ly Awful)

Broadcasted live on Twitch -- Watch live at / mrllamasc

[@kevinoneil5120]

First there was KZbin voice, now he's doing KZbin *face* 😮

[@MrLlamaSC]

It's the same face

[@iamatlantis1]

i call it "youtube googley eyes" he's smitten by us.

[@zachray3798]

Even if it is. This method proven to work here, why mess with the formula.

[@turbo_brian]

​@@MrLlamaSCexcellent, he's taken the bait :)

[@KxNGFeel]

@@turbo_brianall i see is a black screen. Maybe i have to pay ever more

[@zaug1561]

I don't think Blizzard has the know-how to fix trading. This company is in a death spiral of incompetence.

[@Bugeaters]

A toxic wasteland of necessity is maybe the best way I've ever heard jsp described

[@canton444]

Been a JSP member since 2007, I have never been scammed. Follow the 2/3 rule on who gives first OR just always use a JSP Mediator (Its free). You will never get scammed using the mediator on JSP. As for the wealth that crosses over to Ladder reset, it is just part of the trade off. It is no different then someone with 20x Ber Runes from NL and trading it for a week 1 Vex Rune on Ladder. I personally avoid using FG at the start of the reset just because I enjoy the grind. I do though take advantage of the "investment trading" in JSP, sell everything for the first 2 weeks and then buy it all back 3 weeks later. Week 1 Ber on HC Ladder, sold it for 7k FG. Then 2-3 weeks later use that same FG and buy back 2x Ber and a Jah Rune. Sell that day 1 Shako for 2k FG and buy it back a week later for 500fg. My favorite is selling a Sol rune an hour into Ladder reset for 300fg.

[@DALESPEER2]

i used jsp for years and only got scammed once. my literal first ever trade. 4 plain fire gcs and the other person stole them lmfao. it was funny bc my friend spent like a week convicning me that i wouldnt get scammed and it happened on my first trade. he had a bunch of his friends dump their mules on me bc they all found it hilarious/sad for me

[@vominh8872]

i just started using it around 2 months into season 4 and got scammed with Nx Set keys for only around a hundred fg. It's so sad to see people lose their personalities for some cheap virtual coin.

[@schprimas]

Good old days... getting rich by selling ingame gold, pgs, spirit or insight rune packs. Then returning after 2 months to buy high runes for the same price :)

[@JJ3nkins89]

@@schprimas Forum selling simulator, real fun.

[@oyeahisbest123]

​@@JJ3nkins89 every game has the same thing, POE, last epoch,d4,guildwars,wolcen, AND Thousands of other games sell items,boosting and currency on g2g

[@GravyIzSicK]

I've played ladders without jsp, ladders with jsp, now with the shared stash i just play single player. most fulfilling d2 experience after all these years.

[@aleksanderfidelus]

same

[@nanolathe1193]

ive yet to try it. besides baal runs and getting rushed, most of my mf was by myself. been hearing this a lot tho. maybe ill give it a try

[@nikolaydimitrov7701]

best HC experience as well - no more dieing to de-sync which is like 90% of deaths anyway

[@MrGWAMPO]

aight

[@hotpancakes9814]

i like using JSP strictly for assigning in game value to my items. for example, how many HRs should i charge for x item? i go to jsp and get the FG value for the item and compare it to the FG value for the runes, then charge that many runes lol

[@d8l835]

The problem with that is that a ridiculous amount of people don't know, or don't care what jsp is, what their made up price of their made up gold is and therefore will not pay the price you ask. The only way you get these astronomical prices is from other people with said made up gold

[@iroxudont]

I don't think it needs a separate currency, just make HRs and gems stackable.

[@Dunkelelf3]

that would be so great. or just simply make this currency tab in the stash already that is just for runes, keys, organs, gems etc. where you stack them on top of each other. i have like mules over mules for gems and runes and items. it's just dumb. especially for torches and annys that basically force you to clutter up the shared stash because you can't dump multiple on a single char. at least you should be able to have multiple in the personal stash and keep the 1 per char limit only for the inventory. i understand the limit makes sense so you can't load up the char with 40 annys but it could be done better imho. just count the first one and "deactivate" the others. so you can have as many as you want but only the first that goes inside the inventory counts.

[@Scorch428]

just make two servers, one for ppl who dont care about pay to win and just want to trade, and a solo-self found servers. We actually tried this experiment in 2016, when half the player based cried they wanted D3 solo self found. So it was made solo-self found. And everyone quit within 6 months. Even the ones who cried for it.

[@kovarny88]

at first I was against jsp, but when I started playing actively I needed a place to trade and jsp turned out to be the only place where I can buy and sell in a few seconds. jsp is a part of d2

[@SuperZakaru]

I can farm up fg, ladder reset hits, day 1, i buy a shako,. nigma with currency from the previous season, completely removing the whole reason to play the game which is to slowly get stornger with the gear progression system, not start with end game gear instantly.

[@MoseTM]

Comparatively, a Shako on launch week is probably 1000ish or so FG, compared to the 40 it drops down to within a month, so the question is: who is really winning here? @@SuperZakaru

[@SuperZakaru]

@Dark_side9999 you say this like people can't buy fg directly from the site or even cheaper method from the jsp back market where 1k fg is 10 bucks. Or even cheaper in bulk. Also, I can make over 100kfg in the first week almost every ladder reset selling Classic Rushes on hardcore.

[@rocketits5518]

When you farm for 10 hours with no results, trading the occy for a shako lookin real good.

[@CockMcBallsddd]

You guys who think 10 hours is enough to get something good should find another game.

[@frankenstein3163]

@@LetsPlayBojangles You mean 15+ years ago

[@ManchmalGaming]

No I will continue to farm.

[@unsane604]

That doesn't require d2jsp in any way though.

[@admiralbone8075]

Project Diablo 2's economy isn't perfec, but it feels soo much better knowing jspers and botters aren't running rampant devaluing everything. Ladder resets actually force you to grind for gear and currency, and even weeks into the reset you know your drops will still have value. I've also never been scammed on PD2, people for the most part are a pleasure to trade with. There's so much trust in the community people don't even use the trade window, just drop your items and runes and go on your merry way.

[@Iffy50]

I've been trading on jsp since 2008. jsp doesn't ruin the value of things, botters do. Items maintained their value VERY well when D2R came out. In season 2 values plummeted compared to season 1. The bot programs were written and were being used. I hated it. I have 100's of trades on jsp and I can't remember being scammed. It does happen, but it's usually on absurdly expensive gear. If you trade properly using recommended practices, jsp has an excellent recovery system. The mods can just refund your forum gold and take it away from the scammer.

[@Dr.GreenThumb666]

you drastically underestimate how much stronger/faster/better botters are compared to the average d2jsp user...

[@jnf1283]

@@Iffy50This was mostly my experience. I think I've only ever been scammed once out of thousands of trades. I just followed the 2/3 rule. Only once did that ever fail. Most people aren't going to risk losing an '08 jsp account over a low value scam. People will more likely go scam in the poker forum...lol

[@umbhunk1]

Blizzard will never be able to solve this problem for D2. Look at World of Warcraft. They have an in game currency that is useful, and it results in mass botting and gold buying which would ruin the Diablo 2 Ladder's same way JSP does. I don't mind people having mass wealth going into a ladder season because if you take away D2Jsp currency, it just goes back to real life money becoming the wealth people have going into a season when they can buy a Jah rune for USD instead of forum gold. Regulating that is very difficult, as look at WoW and their gold buying and mass botting issue. I think solving the botting issue would be the best thing to do for the economy (easier said than done), whereas limiting pay 2 win is basically impossible in a system of trading due to IRL money existing. PD2 could add a currency that drops from boss kills or terror zones or some well thought out system, but they would have to give the currency value other than trade because otherwise it is worthless currency.

[@DeathSeaTV]

All of this was really well thought out which is no surprise coming from MrLlamaSC. One counterpoint I'd make from a business standpoint, D2R was meant primarily to bring in old players for the nostalgia. The resources required to overhaul the lobby and implement a trading system the way you described won't be worth the financial investment from Blizzard when the playerbase has already been established. Blizzard isn't going to bring in millions of new players (and the corresponding revenue) by improving the existing game. They'd have a lot more fiscal success making these changes in a new game and then marketing that game. The only way I can see them making these improvements in D2R would be if they wrap them in some kind of new expansion for D2/D2R that they can then market to new players (which would be absolutely fantastic) but now you're talking years of development and a ton more resources

[@DoubleBilly]

I've been saying a similar thing. Great point Deathsea

[@Icybluechill]

Blizzard tried to make a d2jsp with early D3. I thought it was great! I could make a living just playing video games. I play and have fun sell gg items to some dude that doesn’t have time to find them. Also every game with trading has RMT. Because of rmt blizzard makes stricter and stricter restrictions on trading in their games which doesn’t feel good at all. If I see a good item I’ll never use I just have to trash it. For d2r I don’t think d2jsp ruines the game, instead of trading my corn for your potatoes like less developed countries I sell the corn for 1 currency and I can do whatever I want with that. Sure they have roll over fg but if you find something good you could make a lot of fg early on in the season for items later down the line if you want. Or never trade but do the online experience. There’s tons of ways to play and I think d2jsp helped a lot keep the game alive. Effective trading keeps games alive

[@wispgb_]

1 Key thing you missed is that it allows you to accumulate larger amounts of wealth with much smaller trades. For example someone could farm spirit or insight packs and sell them for 1 or 2fg until they have enough to buy a Ber rune. Do the same for a Jah and it enables someone who couldn't otherwise afford it to trade for an Enigma. Also JSP does offer mediators to keep trades safe.

[@Killa162]

I feel like adding a diablo style forum gold into the game directly serves no purpose. If you wanted to trade for items using another currency, literally everyone can start using in-game gold to start trading right now. Least gold has little value to the game, repairing items, buying ship items like pots, scrolls, socket items, etc, and can't forget about gambling, and lastly, hiring and resurrecting your merc. But adding in Blizzards' own forum gold will just be the same problem now. It's a 3rd party currency that has no real value in the game other than facilitating trades larger than 40 Jah. It can't be crafted into anything, can't be a rune or a gem to be socketed, it's not an ite., it's just vaporware currency in a game that has finicky trading as is. The real solution and everyone knows this is to add stackable runes and gems. Literally, with this one change, it would fix trading. Blizzard would just have to enable the stackable runes and gems to be tradable while stacked. The system would have to be very clear and concise so you could tell how many runes or gems are in the stack. There's no need to go down this rabbit hole of making Blizzard create a currency that has no use in the game other than to just make big trades. I do, however, agree they need a better lobby system or a different tab or something that acts as a "trade lobby." So instead of seeing other games and the chat on the left. Make a button to click that takes you to a whole new window with a dedicated UI like an auctionhouse with different chat channels for different item categories. And have these trades be able to sit there while you're logged off. Either leave a bidding system or have a good PM/in-game mail system to contact players while their offline or in games farming.

[@oguzcanoguz5977]

Hundreds of highrunes... Dude, if there wasnt the rampant duping and botting, no one would have a hundred highrunes. I absolutely hate it when people speak of highrunes as if they are some once in a while rare drops. They are almost impossibly rare, it is unfathomable for someone that plays diablo 2 a few hours a day to reliably get any that they want. I sincerely want them to just make a ladder with no trading between others and increased drop rates to reasonable numbers. I despise trading in D2, partially because I know most of the things other people are selling are not earned.

[@DanielgunKim]

Both trading in either the game itself and on d2jsp has risks and issues. However, I still think trading in d2jsp is far superior. You can post old items in greater quantity, you can see the current value for more fairer pricing, there can be a universal currency, find more venues to trade, and so forth. Also, some people may not have the time to mf ber runes. This is what makes ladder resets fun for me. It’s not perfect but it’s a better alternative than sitting in game to wait for someone to trade saying, “My Ist for your Jah” games.

[@Fingolfin3423]

The simple solution is to not use D2jsp. I never have and never will. The problem is that not enough people do that, and thus it lives on, further damaging the D2 economy through inflation. Also, that Grief Berserker Axe @ 10:07 is painful to see due to the 26 durability on it. That person is going to be repairing it all of the time. One huge disagreement I have with you is that the creation of a new "currency" you build on ladder should NOT transfer over to the "eternal" realm. What you suggested there just creates the same problem on D2jsp - the transfer of wealth, which creates inflation and devalues everything, ruining trading. We don't want that on eternal realm. Also, I'm against the creation of a new type of "currency" to help simplify trading. One of the fun things about trading and economy in D2 is that you have to stay somewhat current and do a little bit of homework in order to know the value of things via various monies/currencies that already exist in the game, such as high runes, crafting runes, junk jewels, charms, misc pgems, higher-value pgems for crafting and rolling, tokens, keys, specific uniques and greens, the list goes on. I don't want some new overarching currency to replace all of this.

[@oyeahisbest123]

every game has the same thing, POE, last epoch,d4,guildwars,wolcen, AND Thousands of other games sell items, boosting and currency on g2g the difference between those and d2jsp is that on d2jsp you never have to spend a dime of your own money, you can trade it for forum gold and sell to those who would use real currency to buy fg. They are buying from you instead of the botters if you offer a good price. You avoiding jsp didnt help a danm thing it just made them more likely to buy from a botter.

[@MrHowzat123]

Great video. I only use Traderie and find it pretty good. Haven't found anything worth more than 40 Jah yet so no issues with trading. I don't want to use D2JSP because I honestly think I'd find the game boring, especially for ladder. If I was fully specked on day 3 of ladder I'd probably stop playing. I start ladder with a particular end game build in mind that I want to achieve, and it usually takes me 3 months to get there. When I do get there though I find it extremely rewarding, feels like I earned it.

[@rafaelsimao6383]

Nowadays, what I do to avoid that is just spend all my fg every end of season and deck out the chharacters, then get a fresh start.

[@duncanedgin9433]

Traderie seems just as sketchy and exploitable lol

[@MAarshall]

@@duncanedgin9433 Unless something has changed it's just a listing site where you trade items for items. Instead of sitting in game waiting forever you put up an advert and people can contact you with offers. No forum gold or anything like that.

[@Gauldoth06]

@@duncanedgin9433 🤡no

[@grog189]

The transfer of wealth between ladders is EXACTLY why I personally dislike it. I'd even prefer people have to go spend money every season to get more fg instead of just starting with wealth would help prolong the time it takes for people to get stuff. RMT is still bad but at least it would hurt peoples wallets. Not just sell off all your stuff when you are done for the season and then use it to purchase what you need next season early on.

[@Chris-ee5xg]

Yeah it is the reason i haven't taken D2 ladder seriously. I have played a few ladders for fun but i always know people will buy items for FG while im spending a whole day mfing for junk

[@Iffy50]

I've done about 10+ D2 ladders. (not just D2R) I have 7442 fg right now, but I always write down what my total is before I start the new season and I don't use any legacy fg. It's still MUCH better to trade through jsp. I can find what I need fast and I can sell what I have to sell fast.

[@Scottosaur]

I certainly don't disagree that there can be a transfer of wealth but it's not as useful as you might think. Towards the end of ladder, items are worth peanuts (let's say for example a shako would sell for 10fg) and when a ladder begins, a shako will start around 3,000fg. Now you can definitely accrue enough wealth to get a shako much faster at the start of ladder, but your wealth is tanked for wanting to buy something so quickly. So unless you're willing to farm and sell 300 shakos at end of ladder value to buy one new shako, you wait for prices to drop to reasonable levels and have probably found enough other items in the meantime that would have equaled a trade for a shako in-game. To me, it's just a better barter/trading system that saves you time and effort rather than trying to communicate through D2's clunky comms.

[@MrJosa82]

Yes that broke it for me.

[@awbobsagetable]

the fact that you prefer rmt over someone playing the game consistently over time, accumulating wealth, is hilarious.

[@Roolenstein]

It's amazing that d2jsp is still going after all these years, with its forum gold economy

[@korlic9]

the the values have remained pretty stable over like what 18 years its nuts

[@Iffy50]

@@korlic9 Are you talking about the non-ladder? The ladder values change like crazy at the beginning of the ladder.

[@frankenstein3163]

@@Iffy50 No. just saying the currencies. It's like crypto.

[@korlic9]

@@Iffy50 yeah ladder and they do but if i find say an ist rune start of ladder if i want to trade that for a shako they are both hyper inflated so as a trader it makes no difference. Its only external currencies traded does it make any sort of difference

[@Leon-yg5gm]

the founders raked in that money.

[@clon8888]

Funny how streamer accepts “donation” during new ladders but doesn’t support d2jsp. I wonder where their viewers got their bers and jahs from 🤔.

[@ChizFreak]

The whole point is that you never know where ANYONE got their item from. If we went by what you say then we wouldn't be able to trade at all with anyone ever unless we support d2jsp, which is a ridiculous argument. If anything, your statement proves that d2jsp shouldn't exist, so we can be less distrustful on the origin of items.

[@clon8888]

@@ChizFreak I never said trade man. I am just staying viewers are donating their gear to stream which they gladly accepted.

[@monarchistdesade6989]

It's bad faith, usually he uses community to push a certain special event. A big part of his content is solo self found. Heck, not even a fan of him and I'm somewhat aware what's his content is about.

[@danplath1]

It's not bad faith. If he mentions he needs something during stream there will always be people willing to give it to him. And this is for all streamers, not just him.

[@JaGGeR-]

​@@danplath1yet if you or I mention we need something we get shamed for it and told "go MF". Oh, like your botting program does for you?!

[@smalps-gaming]

I totally agree with you with all this. As a NON Ladder player, since I don’t have the time to compete in a ladder, I have been playing D2R non Ladder since the game launched. 3000 hours into the game all 100% Non Ladder. I use traderie which I like because it just facilitating normal person trades. The issue I have now is that because JSP exists, there are items that are in the 40 jah range. And like the only way a normal player would have that many Jah runes would be from making trades with JSP users. And for sure ladder is not attractive to me because its not really a true economy reset, because people on JSP carry their wealth from ladder to ladder. Like if you want that, then play non ladder. I get that JSP works for a lot of pvp players. Its where people trade for these GG items, but if there was another widely adopted system, if blizzard made their own auction house, it would be just as good.

[@WeedNoTobbaco]

yup jsp make the game worst for sure i saw a dude with enigma first day d2r was lauched, i asked how and he said jsp lul

[@NofirstnameNolastname]

​​@@WeedNoTobbacoooh no Really!?! that must have ruined your experience. Did you quit the game.

[@Scorch428]

i use ladder to MAKE fg, not trade it. Stuff goes for massive prices the first 2 or 3 days.

[@smalps-gaming]

@@Scorch428 what would you need to make FG if it didn’t exist? And all you could do was trade items?

[@princetolten4403]

Just a correction that a perfect grief pb sold for 150k fg. So a ba base will sell more. Also ChocolateCoveredGummyBears is damn hot.

[@masterfoxx5545]

That's actually a good idea with the ingame store. The currency might be collectable while playing, just small amounts from random drops from bosses, or as rewards for events that pop up randomly few times a day.

[@xBDE]

This ladder season was the worst ever for botting. The rarest items in the game were tanking by 20-50% everyday from day 1. Never ever have we seen Shaco @ 100Fg on Day 2, it was absolute madness. Definitely an eye opener

[@thekillawookie7104]

The game going to roughly $15 for a copy during black friday sales aren't going to help:(

[@UnStop4ble]

@@thekillawookie7104 yep, even if they would actually do banwaves, botters for sure stocked up immensly on copys. I hope they will introduce an ai learning ban program as they did with ow. But its definately not worth it for them so i guess that will never happen :D

[@frankenstein3163]

"The rarest items in the game were tanking by 20-50% everyday from day 1" is this true n hard core ?

[@frankenstein3163]

@@thekillawookie7104 I don't think bot'ers need keys as I have not heard of a ban. It's odd as a theory in the past was that the more key banning the more moony they make

[@lasersoft120]

I think the biggest issue for this is because its not just 1 realm, its the whole world that can share items. Used to be US West only. Or US East only. europe only. couldn't trade between them. now it doesn't matter, they can just swap realms and trade.

[@hollowedout510]

d2 jsp, specifically forum gold and its dominance of trading is the second worst thing to happen to d2 online for all the points you accurately mentioned. The worst thing being blizzards neglect. i.e. gold RMT bots constantly spamming and bots in general, which does tie into jsps toxicity. People saying that d2 JSP is the reason D2 is stil so popular are doing the community a disservice, its not d2 jsp thats kept it alive, it is the players themselves, if JSP wasn't there we would default to the next easiest system of trading. There is no point sugar coating it JSP is a cancer on the game and its commendable that the community and players managed to play with or without it ruining the experience, because they enjoy the game. If you dispute it you can look at private servers and game mods and see that enjoyment of the game comes first over having a perfect currency and outlet to trade with, the community just adapts and uses the best option available. Giving d2jsp any credit beyond crediting them perpetuating botting, rmt and making new ladders less of a challenge is kidding yourselves.

[@oyeahisbest123]

Pretty bad argument i would sell item on g2g and save the money in my paypal balance..... this isnt a jsp issue. infact g2g is way bigger and has 1000's of games. Before that way ebay etc. Think outside the box mate. I actually sell items on many private servers on g2g.... Where d2jsp is different from other RMT sites is that any normal user can collect fg without spending a dime of their own money.

[@arjensmit6684]

So true. I would say problem number 4 is that because the currency exists outside of the ladder season, the inflation is beyond enormous. That of course is a good thing for issue 3, at least if you want to buy a decent item on day one of the ladder, you are paying a fortune for it, but it does screw the economy a bunch. You have to just sell everything you find and dont use asap before it loses 95% of its value. Biggest different experience is that i used jsp extensively and never had any issues with scammers whatsoever.

[@yibrahimovic569]

the currency in that "perfect solution" is the most important factor in that equation, and the value that is attached to it

[@PlayJAKPlays]

If blizzard wants to get rid of third party trading sites, and doesn't want to spend time/money adding a better trading system into an old game (via patch or expansion), blizz could just come up with their own trading site, and make the site cover all ARPGs and Looter-shooters they have and/or might dream up in the future. it wouldn't eliminate third party sites, but it might help them cut off some amount of future business from being sent to third party sites. if it covers all tradeable items across all past and future blizzard games, they wouldn't just be doing it for "this old game" they'd be doing it to help support and sell future games, they could also advertise other games and merch there... it's a win-win, more money for blizz.

[@MrLlamaSC]

probably the most likely chance we have

[@boocethebooce838]

or at least an api like poe has... poe lets you list items for sale directly from your stash and lets trade sites pick it up via api, so multiple trading sites can pick up the same items, meaning the market is more consolidated and prices make more sense. this + better trade system would be huge

[@EMTgamer]

@@boocethebooce838 Huge sections of POE trading are operated by RMT. I would caution against holding up POE's framework as a model.

[@filipposvavaletskos3085]

Didn't Blizzard use their own version D2JSP in D3 called "The Aution House"? Didn't Blizzard think it made finding items to easy so they shut it down for that reason? Am I the one missing something here?

[@MichaelPohoreski]

They shut the RMAH down because most people DON’T want scummy Pay-to-Win in their games. Blizzard also *intentionally nerfed the drop rate* to “incentivize” people to use it.

[@GO-nf5bp]

The problem in traderie and d2jsp is fake bids. People use multiple accs to push the price. Real worth of 20/5 is 1k. Is very complicate to explain the system and strategie of this people. By careful in tradeing.

[@greggen63]

I think the idea is sound but the idea of Blizzard investing substantial time into new D2R features at this stage feels like a fantasy to me.

[@erikc6952]

Man do I hate d2jsp. So much that I don't want to play ladder or online in general because wealth transfers between ladders and has been around for some for nearly 2 decades. Plus can 'donate' and get the forum gold that way too. I always refuse to trade with people who admit to using it. It's so widespread though it's almost impossible to escape. Recently tried D2R classic to see if I could switch to it and get rid of the majority of the power of runes and runewords on d2jsp but went as a throwing barbarian and found out quickly in classic that only white throwing weapons exist. Really ruins the competitive spirit of the game and I hate it so much.

[@MrLlamaSC]

One of my biggest reasons for playing ssf mostly!

[@therebelofchaos1674]

Eh, agree to disagree. I still play solo self found and sell valuable stuff I find there because I just like the idea of showcasing and/or pawning off valuable items that I find, and it's the best way to do it. I've rarely bought anything there, and usually it's with fg that I've earned off my trades in Non ladder and it's usually stuff I can't be assed to go get myself (tons of pskulls to reroll diadems, larzuk services, etc.). You do you though boo.

[@Mp3BuRn420]

They can't fix the chat system and you want them to handle trading? Lol...I agree it should be in game, but, Big Business is exponentially disappointing. The greed is real!

[@SlimStarCraft]

I find it funny how everyone was so but hurt about the D3 auction house that blizzard had to remove it but everyone seems to be fine with D2JSP... i dont get it

[@Flemeth85]

A small, vocal minority shouted with amplified voices (like MrLlamaSC) so Blizzard removed it. Most people were perfectly fine with the AH in Diablo 3. This world has become run by minorities that shout.

[@Horus137]

I hate D2jsp, I blame them for corrupting Diablo II. Not wealth reseting with ladder reset, being real-money auction house (thing that we hated in Diablo III), gatekeeping new users from earning fg because of massive bot farms and fg-millioners, ability to earn fg from other games (e.g. Runescape) and use it in Diablo II, also security and privacy issues. The answer for this problems is Blizzard-backed in-game non-real-money Auction House like in Oldschool Runescape. For me it's a perfect solution. They can even create iron-man mode like in OSRS, where iron-man players can play alongside normal players, but can't trade with them, actually can't trade with anyone (tbh ultimate iron-man where players can't use their chest would be fun too).

[@MrLlamaSC]

Yeah the true solution really just lies with blizzard implementing something in game

[@iamatlantis1]

The gate keeping, ahh indeed. I dont even have a D2JSP account and I could tell that people were doing that. Things like buying up every last griffons eye and hording them all to control the price. Its also made people infinitely greedy and prone to cheating with controller and scripts to loot things etc.

[@marckybase]

@@MrLlamaSC so you want trading bots instead of mf bots?

[@czypher]

The problem is boting, not d2jsp.

[@iamatlantis1]

@@czypher valid point

[@Dimitryvv]

If they made vendor prices lower and made gold a lot more scares. As rare as like some of the lower runes. It might help than it would take a really long time to generate gold and you could hold a lot more gold.

[@DrewDalasta]

and this is why i just play single player

[@oyeahisbest123]

pretty bad excuse mate. its fine to play single player but even if you played online its not like they will affect your characters. You just cucked yourself from being able to make friends or join a legit discord trade community.

[@danielfavino9537]

I hear all of this. Even the most recent bots from OG D2 run off of JSP script Even still says By: Njaguar. And once they went trading. Same issue geared up super quickly and left feeling like "what do i do now?" and taking a 2 year break. So these days i avoid it all and it feels great to find stuff.

[@aaronbiglow6573]

100% would love a proper in game trading system.

[@swadlol]

This is all built-in in POE. 1. Right click item, set price 2. … 3. Profit But you have to buy a premium (shop) stash tab for like $5 or post your items manually on the official forum (they still show up in all searches)

[@jblps]

The currency could be gold or 1b gold=1 That way it resets but you can still farm it in game. Might solve the whole gold is worthless thing

[@invoker5632]

Hey, I am thinking about getting back to D2 and wanted to purchase D2R, but have few questions since I will be playing only single player, is D2R like original DIablo were best rune words were blocked for Ladder only? I used to play pluggy mode where all rune words where avaiable for single player, also can you swap items in single player between your characters like in pluggy mode?

[@MichaelPohoreski]

All runewords are unlocked in D2R single player. There are 4 stash tabs in D2R. Each character has 1 private stash tab and 3 shared stash tabs which are shared among ALL characters. It makes it easier to mule than vanilla but harder than PlugY. The stash size also got increased to 10x10. D2R is a mixed bag. The graphics are gorgeous along with the silky smooth 60 FPS but PlugY does NOT work with it. Thankfully _most_ of the QoL PlugY fixes ARE in D2R such as fixing the cow king portal bug. Probably the only thing you will miss from PlugY is being capped at 3 stash tabs and not being able rename them. LAN play being gone is the other one. I’ve been playing D2 for 23 years and still miss PlugY but D2R is a great remaster.

[@invoker5632]

@@MichaelPohoreski Thanks for info, last thing I wanted to ask, are you still able to reset your skills like in plugy? or like in the original you can do it in total 3 times, 1 per normal/nightmare/hell play thro?

[@MichaelPohoreski]

@@invoker5632 D2R has D2’s original skill reset system: farmable essences to craft a Token of Absolution along with Akira’s single use reset per difficulty. If you play D2R single player there is an online character editor to edit skills if farming essences is too time consuming for trying out builds.

[@87539319]

pretty glaring to leave out your ladder race groups taking the first torch you find straight to d2jsp LOL

[@mikesgtag9188]

I think running bots at a small personal level to find loot and level is fun but some people do it on a huge scale to make it a job and that just kills it.

[@jnf1283]

I used d2jsp heavily back around '09, but it was very different back then. My experiences back then were great, but I've tried it more recently and it's changed a lot and not for the better.

[@notjoeyg666]

Dueling is the best part of d2 and jsp gets me the specific gear I need for my build wo it id have no chance of getting specific equipment and inventory Id need to be competitive

[@JoKa313]

Ladder Slasher is what d2jsp is all about.

[@Volvesite]

While i do agree with this, i believe they tried something similar with the auction house in D3. Pretty sure now that its microsoft owned, they would see dollar signs and would be more inclined to do pay to win.

[@ClericPreston_]

whilethe real money auction house in d3 was a bad move I honestly loved the regular auction house

[@LaPoubelle42]

D2Jsp helped me a lot in my first d2r ladder season. I found a Griffons on day 2 of ladder and traded it for a bunch of forum gold as my first ever trade on Jsp. I was then able to farm for the first week, wait for prices to go down, and then convert all of that value off of an early griffons into a bunch of high runes to gear up my characters. Jsp is really the only way to take advantage of the inflated value of early drops.

[@JoblessPunk]

100% with your number 5 point, D2jsp really does take a bit of fun out of the game. When I used D2jsp for a bit I felt like I was playing the "D2jsp market" instead of actually playing D2 and that really wasn't much fun.

[@chocolatecoveredgummybears]

lmao cry more

[@sakaraist]

@@chocolatecoveredgummybears damn homie, didn't know you were so invested in how someone else plays a video game.

[@chocolatecoveredgummybears]

@@sakaraist imagine defending not using jsp

[@MaTTer1235]

It ruins the game for non JSP users and devalues items. People with accumulated FG can get fully geared with GG gear in less than 3 days at the start of ladder. It's absolutely unfair and it's not even debatable. @@chocolatecoveredgummybears

[@fepethepenguin8287]

Yes... but that can be a whole other part of the game... easy to not use. Iv never traded a thing in my life. But for some people, searching those valuable items knowing there is a place to sell them. That's a whole new dimension

[@josephsnyder1694]

Disagree. I think using JSP (and traderie even) help new players identify what items are good/useful/sought after and not just chuck em on the ground when they see a blue monarch with some sockets and block chance. It also lends to making any play style more fun. Rune farming/leveling/gold finding/rare jewel hunting crafting, so many more drops mean something when you can assign value to it. And if anything a NEW NEW player? They benefit the most from any of this. With or without JSP they’re starting with nothing. Without JSP they’re stuck holding the bag if they find a gfg item at the start of ladder. With JSP they get paid off. I played d2 single player for about 6 years on and off throughout my life, and the most fun I’ve ever had with this game has been when the drops were this meaningful

[@oyeahisbest123]

Pretty bad argument if there was not d2jsp i would sell item on g2g and save the money in my paypal balance..... this isnt a jsp issue. infact g2g is way bigger and has 1000's of games.

[@KSechrist]

You know you can search the games to join, right? You can put in "Shako" and it'll only show games with "Shako" in the title.

[@LetsPlayBojangles]

It only displays from the 16 games you had listed in the first plays. Not the entire realm you're on

[@Lok-TM]

d2jsp is the only thing that has kept LoD going for 20+ years.

[@marc-etiennemercier6584]

If you can call that LoD or just some marketing game. You spend more time browsing a website than actually playing the game. And this is an ex jsp user speaking. At some point I had a perfect LLD zon with 4 bots running and somehow it was the most boring experience I had. My best experience has been to mf it all myself when d2r came out. Now I just got into hardcore and I'm having even more fun.

[@Lok-TM]

​@@marc-etiennemercier6584that's cool, to each their own. I've been playing since launch, took a good 10 year break, but I'm into competitive melee, and I find a lot of fun in being a tier 1 dueler. Without jsp, it would take years to get gear in that echelon, and as an adult with a kid, I simply don't have that kind of time.

[@oyeahisbest123]

@@marc-etiennemercier6584 sounds like you were just trying to get rich rather than playing the game and I would say is a personal issue really..... Keep a screen open make a big post and just have fun....

[@marc-etiennemercier6584]

@@oyeahisbest123 You're probably right. I did spend more time making signatures for jsp users than playing d2 actually.

[@LassetUnsSpielen]

Some people play D2 for the PVP part of the game. Not everyone wants to spend over 1000 hours farming for that Enigma just to have a sliver of a chance in competetive PVP. If you make things like high runes so unlikely to drop, trading and scamming are bound to happen. Also D3 had an auction house, if you remember. For some reason it got removed. Everything the game needs is a double inventory window of both players, both can see the content, both have to agree on the trade. Maybe something like a "Horadric Trading Cube"

[@ksven]

For an in-game currency to work for trading, I think you would need a "central bank" within the game that always lets you exchange the currency for something with in-game value. Let's say 100 units of the currency always gets you an ist rune from the central bank, for example (Or, if you are afraid of flooding the game with ists, maybe just 40 pgems). Then it would be easy for people to assess what the currency is actually worth and prevent the value from dropping.

[@ischju]

Hence I love single player !

[@TheRustyPlace]

I miss the old active trading channels in game.

[@lassej5653]

12:11 poisoning the well fallacy. What a Strange way to try and discredit a site that clearly is no longer about that (botting). The "items are from bots" argument would apply to every single trade outlet you could think of.

[@unsane604]

There's optimism, and then there's realism. They haven't solved this in >20 years. It is what it is. It's an SSF life for me.

[@oyeahisbest123]

pretty bad excuse mate. its fine to play single player but even if you played online its not like they will affect your characters. You just cucked yourself from being able to make friends or join a legit discord trade community

[@bigzlowered]

I was hacked years ago while being a active member of the community but was never able to recover my account. Lost trust in the site after that.

[@CcMan91]

So how do we topple the Patriarchy known as D2JSP?

[@johnniiee146]

Can you trade your way up to the best rune from like the most basic trash item with trading value?

[@fisherj5087]

Sort of. Save up Rals and Pgems. Rich mofos will occasionally trade puls for bulks of them.

[@waltlock8805]

Late reply, but since a new ladder is about to start: Yes, yes you can. Trade low runes for spirit and insight in early ladder - along with other useful items like keys. A few weeks later, when prices drop, you can buy your high runes. Or just trade a lot of spirit packs and do it that way.

[@AkRogueToe]

Hey, this new series of videos made me think about LAN offline. Why is there no LAN Offline? Thanks for the videos, I also love the new play through series.

[@SealionPrime]

Blizzard doesn’t want people playing online in a forum they don’t control and don’t want mods

[@gerggergungson7885]

fun police. i understand a few points you made, pretty much the only two negatives i see is that; 1 the average player who doesnt use jsp might have a harder time trading because the economy is flooded. if trading in game was improved, this wouldnt really change though, JSP just streamlines that. 2 if you are trying to break records or get top of ladder or some other competetive goal, you have a disadvantage not using it. so, kind of sounds like "nooo! i grinded for 3 days to get here and you shortcut!" is it the crying wojak meme i'm picturing

[@AaronJLong]

I've thought myself, wouldn't it be nice to have a system as convenient as D2JSP, but without people bringing in FG from older seasons or different games, etc. But then, new season drops, no one can purchase or import FG into the system, so how do people people buy/sell things without currency, and we arrive back at having to use ingame items as currency.

[@jlchausse909]

I’ve never been scammed in 14 years using it, having an older account help since people usually give 1st but I also don’t fall for new accounts offering deals too good to be true or give 1st to people who look shady but when you’re not sure you can always use a moderator eliminating the scam aspect of it.

[@Stavroization]

Also been using it since 06, never been scammed

[@blackaspitch631]

As much as I like this idea and agree the major downside is that it blizzard takes over a d2jsp type system inside the game what's stopping them from being the ones that sell the FG. They won't build a new part of the game just to support trading in the game for free they will need to make money somehow. Either they will sell the FG like they do in Diablo immortal or start charging a monthly service fee just to access the game. They can't put labor into a system without it making them money somehow.

[@tev984]

I do believe JSP ruins the "spirit" of ladder. The fact that a new ladder starts is a clean slate. If you're sitting on 50k FG you can essentially just buy a whole characters worth of gear. It also fuels the botting

[@SaveTheSunF1R3x]

I think runescape has has the perfect solution for this for quite some time in the form of platinum tokens and spirit shards. basically easily convertible stackable trade currency that has a set conversation rate. 25 gold per spirit shard both ways and 1,000 gold per plat token both ways.

[@DesroTy]

The problem is Diablo 2 devs have given up on this game, it means that someone has had to take matters in their own hands. They refuse to listen to their player base which has lead to a loss of revenue on their behalf. As far as JSP goes, I think it's quite effective - I personally have never been scammed by trading with trusted players who are conscious of their account being banned. The ladder resets are disappointing but realistically very few people are actually going to invest the time to rush to 99. I do agree that buying full characters can take the fun out of the game but at the same time, as a solo online player who doesn't use the trade feature, it can be incredibly frustrating to level up and find gear just to do some basic magic finding

[@imonyourside8376]

I've been using Jsp since early D2 20 years ago, I miss trading and wish D4 had all items tradeable. It was more than half the fun of the game and a solution to RNG when I don't have hundreds/thousands of hours to farm. I have friends who have such bad RNG luck they quit, and this helps out with that. It doesn't bother me what someone else has in a game or how they got it, I'm here to have fun that's it!

[@MrJosa82]

I wouldn’t mind jsp but what about new ladders? You don’t start with zero currency. You start with the gold from the last season. This felt super wrong to me.

[@Victor-sm6vr]

Let's be honest, not being able to trade at all would be heaps and bounds better than playing a P2W game like D2R. A solution to this problem would be to shut down any website that acts like a store of wealth with a lifecycle longer than the D2R season. I don't know if people realize just how much did d2jsp hurt the game that they love.

[@thestabbinhob0986]

Jsp ruined diablo for me. Never imagined how horribly cancer that community is. I thankfully was able to enjoy a massive offline run since then.

[@MrLlamaSC]

Thank goodness offline is an amazing experience

[@oyeahisbest123]

Pretty bad argument Considering you are not forced to interact with them and could just play with a select group of friends or a private trade community. You cucked yourself into playing alone is all. if there was not d2jsp i would sell item on g2g and save the money in my paypal balance..... this isnt a jsp issue. infact g2g is way bigger and has 1000's of games. Before that way ebay etc. Think outside the box mate. I actually sell items on many private servers on g2g.... Where d2jsp is different from other RMT sites is that any normal user can collect fg without spending a dime of their own money.

[@skyhighmaximilian]

Great video. You explain the problems with D2JSP well. I agree. However, your solution wouldn't work. This is because those who are already accustomed to using D2JSP wouldn't completely switch over to a new in-game trading platform; even if Blizzard were to implement one. They might trade on it, but come new ladder they'd be back in D2JSP for that start-of-the-ladder power boost anyway. And then they'd continue trading there to make sure their next ladder experience would be "smoother" as well. What I'm saying is this: it is too late to implement the fix you're suggesting (even though it is a good idea). It simply isn't worth it to do it for such an old game. A new game with a built-in trading solution is required.

[@DDadams0]

Item rarity is what makes D2 as good as it is. LoD also benefited IMMENSELY from older patches and glitched items. Without these incredibly rare items to chase but never be able to just 'find' them people played much longer than they would have in another game. I really think the trading system in D2 is better than any other rpg except for PoE in some ways. PoE has TOO many currencies now though, and being able to essentially create perfect or near perfect rares on demand (if you have enough currency) ruins the chase.

[@capemron6330]

PoE has a ton of "legacy" gear AKA old patch gear you can't get anymore, just like old .08 gear. The gear is also insane, so sometimes it makes sense when they nerf them. Ashes of the Stars just got nerfed this new expansion, so now the only way to get the old one is to get a "legacy" one on Standard league, or non ladder for D2. Just like with D2 I'd play ladder to get currency/gear just to pimp out my non ladder or Standard characters more, as these games are at the most fun for me when my characters are the most broken they can be.

[@Setixir]

Saying if you have enough currency is a wild thing to say. The amount of currency you need is really quite high. I don't enjoy PoE because they balance it like a damn esport. The items aren't the problem.

[@DDadams0]

@Setixir But there is a path to DO IT. That's what I don't like. Even if you don't want a 100% perfect Belton-esque rare to sell as a mirror service you could come fairly close with t2 mods for a small small fraction of the price. In D2 the rares that are anywhere even near perfect are all trophies in their own right and are extremely expensive and RARE. In PoE there's an "easy" path to it, it just involves currency. The only way in D2 similar would be rushing characters / leveling them and constantly doing Charsi imbue quests with the base you wanted - that's the closest thing and it's completely unviable as a real strategy. I like the lotto odds of D2 better, it just makes seeing those items so much cooler.

[@JGComments]

Traderie is good, but the best part of JSP is that you can trade 20 items worth 5 for one item worth 100.

[@JGComments]

Blizzard should add a "Trade" difficulty that is just Normal, so that all the trade games could be made there. Would be a simple thing to add.

[@clownbabydragon]

Well-thought out analysis, too bad activision-blizzard-microsoft-ubisoft-myspace -bethesda doesn't care about D2R since it most-likely has generated mere pennies compared to D4

[@goindowno3]

A special currency might not be totally necessary if you can specify what your item(s) trades for. Naturally players would figure out their own currency. You sell your listed Shako for one Ist, or reverse. A rune / charm / jewel based currency economy would probably naturally form. The ease and instant automatic transactions could help with what is annoying about this in website trading.

[@askmedov]

What about trades for unspecified items? I.e. I am willing to buy the best tri-res boots for my budget. This kind of trade is only possible on a forum-like trading ground

[@HonoluluBlueKirby]

While it has its downfalls, the ease of access and ability to make quick trades makes JSP necessary. I agree the best solution would be for Blizzard to create an in game system, but we have to roll with what we got for now.

[@AltFFearYT]

I like d2jsp and won't change my mind. I never had much luck mfing, but I loved to convert lower crap items (junk jewels, pgs, lower runes, bases) to fg und shop items I really need. I started at 0. If you are against trading ingame items vs time(=money), you are against Traderie aswell. Same goes for secondary market (itemshops, ebay). It's always exchange time=money=other stuff(ingame items). It's for EVERYthing on earth. It's called capitalism.

[@SoundboundOfficial]

The d2jsp UI is a crime by itself. It makes my eyes bleed, it was inexcusable even in 2002, but now it's just madness to even think that such a putrid site still exists, let alone thrives, to this day. It all comes from that stupid idea from back in the 2000s that you can build ANY kind of site using a bulletin board engine. Well yeah, you COULD... but that doesn't mean you SHOULD. It's an abominable, fugly patchwork at best.

[@NovocaineTV]

I original found d2jsp back in the day looking for a bot like 2003ish? But also does not support botting since around 2005 and any mention of it on its forums gets you instantly banned.

[@BengaIaas]

The problem is that having an in-game trade system requires having a meaningful in-game currency. But if you create a farmable in-game currency, then botting becomes an even bigger plague.

[@MrLlamaSC]

Yeah they gotta fight vs bots more

[@lazylautrec6933]

Yea theres a bout 6 of us that still play together and one of our friends just wait a few weeks each reset then full kits out a hammerdin with his FG he has saved up and doesn't understand why none of us wanna play with him.

[@billjonesnation]

Did D2JSP always sell gold? I don't remember this. I just logged in and the last time I played was 2009.

[@thanks4272]

I never thought I would ever see this video considering any post I made regarding JSP trading in the Llama discord was always deleted

[@WAstateofmind]

Trading is rooted in the players too. How often does a player find a Ber rune? So you're telling me something it worth 20 Ber runes? It doesn't even make sense.

[@LosLangkos]

MS/Blizz wont do anything like that ingame again. They did it in D3 and failed miserably. Probably because they wanted to earn off of it. PoE is my prime example how to do trading ingame: Have different "currencies" ingame which can as itself be used to create items and so have a certain value attached to their "ability", which are pretty stable. As long as a dev doesnt want to support a community but earn off of a feature its gonna suck.

[@FabriceNormandin95]

What do you think of the trading mechanics in Path of Exile, in comparison?

[@jblps]

100% agree and you're right the only thing that stops d2jsp is a proper in-game system

[@broogul7335]

if blizzard made a PoE trade type site JSP wouldn't need to exist I agree with some of your points in theory, but I work 50+ hours a week, so being able to bank up FG over the course of a few ladders to say go hard on a PoE league is a great feature for me... some people may disagree, but I can do say 3X D2R ladder resets, end up with 4-5k FG, and now be able to get a pretty solid char up and running in a PoE league (be careful trading for FG on PoE, that's a quick ban)

[@macjj1733]

Traderie has prolonged D2R playtimw for me exponentially and i have only had 1 issue after about 200 trades. I dont feel dirty using it like with JSP.

[@quidal84]

The new currency could be just convertible back and forth from e.g. IST rune (e.g. 20 diablo dollars for 1 IST). It may not be perfect, but it allows to do it without creating a new item in the game (which brings a whole can of risks with it like changing meta etc.).

[@MaaaaaaaDeeeeeeee]

That's why a ingame (nonrealmoney) Trading House bound to the played on ladder/nonladder would be the greatest.

[@brandoom4996]

having a long term place to build up D2 income season after season so that you can get those crazy chase items worth more than 40ber runes. there are trades so valuable you can fit that many HR in one window .. so how do you do it ? jsp .. i like jsp

[@MySweetShadow138]

You're the first streamer/youtuber that I've seen actually pronounce Ber the right way, and doesnt say "bear". I like you already

[@Texuh]

The best way to improve a game is to copy the QoL of other games, I can't understand why Blizzard doesn't create a trade mode on the site like PoE

[@MichaelPohoreski]

Small indie company and it would take “work”. /s