Surviving The Shiny Happy People Cult (Part 2) - "Training Centers" | Friends With Davey

"Shiny Happy People" is the #1 documentary on Prime Video, taking an in-depth look at the dark history of one of the most mysterious cults in America--and it just so happens that Davey Jackson grew up in this cult!
Davey and his friend Brice (also a former cult member) explore the compounds that IBLP and cult founder, Bill Gothard, built all over the world to exploit followers. Brice shares his experience living at the "Training Centers" in Oklahoma and Australia and Davey remembers the time he was sent to the cult's most notorious compound in Indianapolis, IN.
Listen to Davey Jackson and Producer Josh, livestreaming with a new friend every Wednesday at 8:00PM CST.
Podcast audio available on Spotify, iTunes, and all streaming platforms.

[@lady8jane]

I really appreciate you speaking about this from a male perspective. The focus of these kind of documentaries is often on the girls and women, because they really have it the worst, but I think it's super important to show that these kind of systems are really bad for boys and men too.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much! Episode 3 we’re having a female ex-cult member to share and compare her experience 🙏🏻❤️ This cult was incredibly dangerous for anyone involved but even moreso for women and it’s heartbreaking to see a lot of the aftermath.

[@regenerated4life]

I'm not sure that I would agree that its worse for girls than for boys. Its a different focus. I have sons and daughters and I can imagine the abuse from both perspectives.

[@bestiesidk]

I don't know how people in high control religions like these convince themselves that they're good people while sweeping sm abuse and neglect under the rug and giving their own kids the kinda trauma they'll have to spend their entire lives unpacking. thankyou for talking about this and for sharing your experiences!!

[@daveyjaxx]

I honestly don’t know either. Some people are just genuinely evil.

[@UmbrellaRebellion]

It's a slow process and organizations like this feed off people's fears. They also attract people who were abused because they promise safety and "the answer" to keeping their children safe. I know a lot of adults who joined because of the promise of safety and keeping their kids safe. It also feeds into the patriarchy so it often turns not that great of parents into abusive dictators. It allows them to justify their abuse because there is a Bible verse they can quote for everything they do.

[@regenerated4life]

I don't think they are concerned about what is good. I think they are fully convinced that their evil is their pleasure.

[@UmbrellaRebellion]

@@regenerated4life some yes, but not all. Some genuinely thought what they were doing was the right thing and feel terrible for the harm they caused.

[@chadmccoy8032]

Psychopaths.

[@brigettereissig5254]

This is beyond awesome that y'all are sharing your stories!! I've been hoping for years that Mr. "Got hard" would be exposed! I realized that about his name on my own about 6 months ago! I was at headquarters for two years and also "worked" at Indianapolis and Oklahoma . The kicker is Got hard wanted me to move in with him to "take care of his mom" and write a counseling curriculum with him...I had just turned 16...i'm ready to tell my story and I would love to do it on your channel!

[@daveyjaxx]

I’d love to talk to you about your experience Bridgette! Please reach out (DM is probably easiest) and we’ll talk. Thank you so much for speaking out and supporting 🙏🏻❤️

[@brigettereissig5254]

This is just the tip of the cult iceberg...my younger sister and I were definitely child laborers and abused...but I feel understood just listening to you both share y'all's experiences❤

[@daveyjaxx]

Appreciate you speaking out 🙏🏻❤️

[@grainnelambert881]

I am completely hooked on this podcast. You three are very easy to listen to. It's just a shame the subject matter is horrific but needs to be spoken of. Hats off to you all excellent podcast

[@daveyjaxx]

Wow thank you so much 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@MJCargile-or9ln]

Thanks, guys. I can especially identify with this from an ATI parent perspective.

[@CarolChillsCasually]

Been following all this stuff for years even tho I was raised a liberal Catholic. It’s all so wild to me. Thank you to every survivor for sharing their stories and their commentary on the whole thing. Mad respect for y’all!!

[@daveyjaxx]

Appreciate it and glad it resonates 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@lizhoward9754]

I too was raised “liberal Catholic”. My family was/is pro-choice

[@CarolChillsCasually]

@@lizhoward9754 always nice when you get beaten as a child but they are still for choice as an adult 😂. Praise Jesus for “choices made”!

[@Palmbreezs1940]

Wow...after watching the Prime series and then diving deep into the IBLP I am realizing my upbringing in the Independent Baptist world of insular churches, Christian church schools, Abeka books, Pensacola Christian College may have been a cult. I've been through many years of therapy but just thought I had a unique, sheltered and fundamental upbringing but now I'm thinking all of that was part of this cult. The church schools I went to used ACE curriculum and abeka books but I do remember Wisdom books floating around and coming in the mail. This indoctrination really runs deep and wide (iykyk). 🙂 Certainly misogyny, abuse and manipulation was a part of my world as a child. My how things have come full circle. I think this documentary is just the beginning. I'm so sorry you gentlemen were subjected to the cruel and sociopathic world of the "training centers". Your discussion definitely brought a lot to light...such as the possible whereabouts of teenagers in the church who "went away" to camp.

[@daveyjaxx]

A lot of them are cut from the same cloth unfortunately. It’s the whole fundamental mentality and it’s so damaging.

[@cynthiaberry2019]

“We were working for Bill Gothard not for God, “perfect summary.

[@daveyjaxx]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@michelleparks6305]

I grew up as an Independent Fundamental Baptist and graduated from a Christian school. I think it triggered my mental illness. I felt guilty for just being human. It's like I walked on eggshells and was robbed of my full potential. I was told that I was demon possessed because I self harmed. So thankful for meds and therapy. I'm finally content with myself.

[@MyMerryMessyGermanLife]

((Hugs)) Being in a fundamentalist group can certainly cause mental illness. So sorry you suffered. Sharing these stories is so powerful!

[@daveyjaxx]

So sorry you had to experience this but glad you made it through to the other side!

[@TheGnomequeen1980]

The best part of this doc has to be the seeing other survivors of this cult who feel empowered enough to come out and share their stories. I can only imagine that there are many out there who feel a little less alone after hearing what everyone went through. I hope you're both continuing to find peace and healing. Looking forward to your next episode!

[@daveyjaxx]

It’s such a cool experience getting to talk to alot of the other ex-members and hear their stories

[@susanwragg937]

I watched part 1 yesterday and now I’m already looking forward to part 3!

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻❤️ next week same time same place

[@debbiescott6836]

@@daveyjaxxNo, you could have watched all four all back to back! I did!

[@sherrywallace2279]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, guys. I actually attended a couple of seminars in the late 70’s and early 80’s. I remember feeling like a Jezabel and nothing could have been further from reality. I’m glad my parents weren’t sucked in! Thank goodness for the truth coming to the surface.

[@daveyjaxx]

Guilt was one of their primary tactics so glad you didn’t fall for it!!

[@sewingintrifocals-alisonde7778]

I need to revisit the “Jezebel” part of the OT. Many organizations use her name to accuse a woman of being assertive, which is apparently a no-no!

[@debrastrayer8600]

Great show! Now for part 3. Thanks for posting!

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 part 3 we’ll be getting a female ex-member’s perspective on everything

[@kathrynmarie412]

Again, words can not express the gratitude I have for all of your incredible stories of survival. For the past decade I have tried to learn as much as I can regarding life in the IBLP, but your personal recall of the trauma and abuse truly brought it to light. You all are so brave: please continue to educate us on what you have endured.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much! It’s been an interesting process unlocking memories that Brice and I had buried for years

[@MJCargile-or9ln]

I am sharing this with our adult kids

[@StephanieMiller-om3dw]

Yes guys keep sharing ... Part 3 please ...

[@daveyjaxx]

Got you! 🙏🏻❤️

[@saraheklund1099]

I could listen to Brice talk all day. So freaking funny.

[@daveyjaxx]

That’s my guy! 👏🏻👏🏻

[@girlycat180]

thank you so much for sharing your experiences and speaking out against this cult. I’m so glad you guys got out and that you’ve started to heal. looking forward to part 3!!

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank YOU so much for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@badcad09]

This was a fantastic podcast I grew up in the training centers and was very involved even to the point of going out to dinner with Bill on many occasions.

[@daveyjaxx]

I only had the one meeting with him 😂 I saw your other comment too and 10 years wooowww 🤯

[@badcad09]

I worked at seven different training center and I was in Russia for two years. In Russia I mostly played hockey in the winter and soccer in the Summer with the my dad built a hockey rink for.

[@ChosenNightwolf]

Glad you guys are both out of IBLP. I actually went to one of the seminars when I was living in Pueblo, CO and attending Broadway Christian Church in the early 90's. I never bought into anything IBLP related, but it's influence is still felt to this day. Knowing what I know now, I'm glad I'm not in it. George (ChosenNightwolf)

[@daveyjaxx]

Glad you had the insight not to get involved 👏🏻👏🏻

[@ChosenNightwolf]

@@daveyjaxx Yeah, I was already out of high school and in college at that point. What did it for me was the "all rock music, including Christian rock and metal, is evil" and "the rock beat came straight out of western Africa". Crazy stuff. George (ChosenNightwolf)

[@JCScavage97]

Growing up in my version of things "UPCI" I saw similar undertones of this. It makes me wonder how much of the doctrine taught to us was pulled from Bill's teachings. I am grateful for a father who never entirely bought into it. After hearing some of your stories and knowing his background, I better understand why he was protective and cautious. Thank you both for sharing the male perspective. It is hard to explain this to people outside this bubble, but it is very real. I saw boys traumatized similarly during my youth.

[@daveyjaxx]

Oh yeah there’s definitely a common thread. Thanks so much for the support!

[@regenerated4life]

It broke my heart when I heard you say that it was 'only' a week in solitary confinement. I am so sorry that you faced such horrific abuse.

[@kristieryal8814]

I had friends that worked at the Riverfront Charactor Inn in Flint, Mi. I’m glad they are out of all of that mess now!

[@daveyjaxx]

That was the IBLP crown jewel for a hot minute

[@Jaebee2626]

Thanks for sharing this important info. Cult awareness!

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️

[@neognostics]

Having been born and raised in the same type of cult, this destroyed my entire life and family. The damage never leaves and sadly you loose everything. Its very real and this is happening even now in todays day and age to people just down your street....

[@tweetersmom567]

Locking a child in a room for a week worth just a Bible is child abuse not religion.... This is heartbreaking thank you for telling your story❤❤

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. This is Dominionism. Seven Mountains.

[@MrArdytube]

When cult discussions come up… we are reminded how abundant these cults are

[@daveyjaxx]

All over the place and often hidden in plain sight!

[@laurengarcia1023]

It's crazy how similar your stories at various centers are to Scientology's Sea org and children of Sea org members who also use minors for labor illegally and lots of weird rules.

[@daveyjaxx]

I’m hearing so much of that. Might have to do a follow up series on Scientology 😂

[@laurengarcia1023]

@@daveyjaxx The channel Growing up in Scientology had a lot of great interviews. It is crazy similar

[@bethcote9978]

Would love to see collab with A-A Ron !

[@UmbrellaRebellion]

I really want to do an IBLP vs. Scientology comparison. On the other episode when Brice mentioned the boat in Moscow, I was no shit! He must have taken some notes from Hubbard.

[@kathysarver3549]

And money

[@abigail9791]

Episode one was great. Partway through this episode, I would just like to thank you both for acknowledging what women went through in these groups. In many deconstruction spaces where white men are sharing their stories, this piece is glaringly absent or greatly minimized. I also appreciate the style of your chat, semistructured but conversational and you don't speak over each other. Very well done and a great listen. This documentary was incredibly triggering for me, but the healing comes through solidarity with others who have left fundamentalism. I was raised IBLP adjacent, with many of their materials being used in our youth groups, life (in home family prayer) groups, and sunday school lessons. Many of the modesty rules, the purity culture and pledges, the free labor was present. My church would have labeled themselves as nondenominational but they were blatantly pentecostal and encouraged dancing, flag waving, falling out for god, faith healings and speaking in tongues weekly. An odd mix with the "modern worship" songs we sang and the full band on stage wearing hipster fashions. I'm still healing from many toxic beliefs and now consider myself an atheist, it took until age 28 to say it openly, I am now 32 . As one of you stated in episode 1, I never bought into the idealogy/theology and often got in trouble for my strong will and honest questioning of teachings. I once told my pastor at age 8 that i felt like everyone was faking hearing gods voice and an exorcism was promptly attempted. 😂 i dont think it worked because my blasphemous thoughts persist to this day! 😂❤

[@daveyjaxx]

Thanks so much for sharing all this. It’s definitely been a difficult process even talking about some of this and it brings back a lot of unwanted memories but I think that’s just part of the healing journey. I tell all of my friends that have been through similar circumstances to get the help they need to address the trauma in a healthy and productive way 🙏🏻❤️

[@abigail9791]

@Davey Jackson yes talk therapy has been hugely helpful to me and I encourage everyone to try it, even just to give yourself a starting point for how healthy and "normal" families operate. I know for many years I accepted poor treatment from romantic partners because it was normal for me. I'd love to hear a follow up or episode 3 exploring how your romantic relationships in your 20s were affected, as a result of this indoctrination. Thanks for your content, which felt like exactly what was needed after viewing the doc. Edit: also exploring ( if either if you are parents), how becoming a parent has made you look at your upbringing in a new light. I know I was able to "get past" a lot of this trauma and relate to my parents on an okay level until becoming a parent myself , when I realized the "doing the best they could" was bullsh*t and I could never imagine treating my son the way I was treated.

[@liseklerekoper2441]

I thought it was notable when Brice made the comment that “unless you were under his eye,” meaning of Bill Gothard’s. You hear that expression all the time in The Handmaid’s Tale on Hulu, & the parallels w/ what goes on in that show & the fictitious Gilead have a lot of similarities to the IBLP. It’s part of why that show, portraying a dystopian society, feels real for many, especially w/ the rise of fundamentalist, Christian beliefs permeating politics these days. Excellent series w/ you & Brice!!! Thank both of you for being willing to share the ugly reality of your experiences. I have such admiration, respect & compassion for any young person previously or currently in this abusive cult.

[@daveyjaxx]

Oh so many of my female friends have made the comparison between handmaids tale and IBLP. Alot of scary similarities

[@liseklerekoper2441]

@@daveyjaxx - I’ve watched the whole series of Handmaid’s Tale to date, & I agree w/ your female friends 1,000%. It’s shocking at times. I read Margaret Atwood‘s book that the series is based on over 20 years ago w/ a book club& there wasn’t anyone who looked at Gilead as something that could be a real threat for America; yet here we are today.

[@glamourandhearts]

LOL that Hobby Lobby is the ad I’m getting for this video 😅

[@JenniferMillerjaneofalltrades]

Scientology and IBLP essentially have the same tag line. And yes, there are a lot of parallels between the two.

[@daveyjaxx]

I’d love to have a Scientologist on the podcast to get their insight!

[@JenniferMillerjaneofalltrades]

@@daveyjaxx, I'm sure you could find someone. Perhaps have one person from IBLP and one from Scientology to compare?

[@jerpica.d6735]

Hearing you guys talk about this is nuts for me - I didn't realize a lot of the stuff in my childhood was so closely linked to this. I know all the songs they sung in church by memory, I have dutch blitz at my house right now, my friends cousin's siblings werent allowed to swim in the pool at the same time as each other because NuDiTy

[@daveyjaxx]

Even being adjacent to IBLP was weird for a lot of my friends. My sister had to wear this one piece skirt thing in the pool and I had to quit the local swim team because of modesty issues 😂

[@lizhoward9754]

I never would have survived this as a child or adult. I have never, ever been “obedient” and “compliant.” Actually the only time I was obedient when my parents threatened to take away some privilege. That straightened me up faster than anything else

[@daveyjaxx]

That’s exactly why I ended up getting kicked out of the Indianapolis training center 😂

[@marczumhagen4149]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It is so crazy to remember all of them and that it even existed.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thanks for listening 🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️

[@stampinprn]

“Allegedly” and “in my opinion” are very helpful phrases 😅

[@daveyjaxx]

Trueeee 😂

[@goodkarna]

Exception coverage. I'm waiting for the episode "Where's Got-hard today?"

[@daveyjaxx]

Oh we’ll definitely get to that 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@goodkarna]

🥳 So glad I found you. Go find Bill! I had to sit through his stupid ass, blue balled, (long) skirt chasing, double standard, sexist, child molesting, hypocritical, umbrella of protection bullshit seminar before I was allowed to date. So I did it when I was 14. I met a cute boy on lunch hour the first day and...

[@stringtheories9820]

Thank you for sharing y’alls experiences. Keep talking about this.

[@daveyjaxx]

We’re recording Episode 3 tonight 🙏🏻

[@brendaechols5929]

The more i listen to your stories, the more angry it makes me. This cult is so abusive in so many ways. Im so glad you guys got out! That religion would drive me nuts ! Its physical, mental, and emotional abuse. God bless !!!

[@daveyjaxx]

I made peace with it along time ago and have come to realize that all those experiences made me the person I am today. But certainly don’t want to see anyone else have to go through it 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@Nkkdawson]

We use to do Dutch blitz tournaments among the girls because I loved the game. 4 guys?!? Wow! I was never on the guys floor. People have no idea all of the crap that went on//still going on, unless you were part of it.

[@smittykins]

Looking forward to Part 3!

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️

[@kyliethorsen6246]

Such a gripping show and chat...I wish they had a trigger warning at the beginning and ending of Shiny Happy People...and perhaps a phone number for lifeline (suicide prevention) hotline number ❤

[@liseklerekoper2441]

I thought I remembered seeing a phone number or website link for at least the group, Recovering Grace, that survivors could connect with, but yes, there should’ve been a trigger warning & more mental health resources discussed. I hope they do another season given there’s so much more to talk about.

[@daveyjaxx]

I know they had the little rating disclaimer thing at the top but yeah it was intense

[@karencramer6491]

The Yarra Training Centre is in Mt Evelyn in the Dandenongs, east of Melbourne. The area seems to attract a lot of fundamental, culty groups. Anne Hamilton-Byrne's 'The Family' cult was situated nearby. Beautiful tourist area, but scratch the surface and you'll find lots of hippie, happy-clappy alternative types.

[@daveyjaxx]

Shiny on the outside, ugly on the inside

[@middlesismonica]

Would love to hear from a woman who was raised in IBLP, if you can find someone comfortable with being on camera.

[@daveyjaxx]

Episode 3 is exactly that! 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@katiesnow396]

Speaking of one on one meetings with Bill Gothard… totally weirded my husband out when I told him that I had several of those meetings.

[@daveyjaxx]

Well Gothard was definitely being a creep in alot of those one on one meetings so probably justified 😂

[@blessedhitchhiker]

Bill Got Hard...the best yet!

[@daveyjaxx]

😂😂🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@blessedhitchhiker]

@@daveyjaxx actually "sick bastard" is more than he even deserves

[@danickamartin4135]

I loved when the Life Focus guys came, cuz it meant the workload of the rest of the staff was WAY lighter!! Even as a girl, the Life Focus guys came in and took many chores off our hands. I never realized that those kids were being sent to the prayer rooms, etc! 😳 Escaping from prayer rooms were all but impossible when I was there… cameras were trained on the doors of the rooms and were monitored at the front desk. You couldn’t leave through the outside doors without a button being pushed by the person behind the front desk, which was manned 24/7. I lived at ITC for 14 as a part of one of the last EQUIP programs to go through there.

[@daveyjaxx]

Lolol 😂😂 YOU’RE WELCOME!! I didn’t mind all the manual labor tbh it was the brainwashing, abuse, and isolation I had a problem with. But glad someone benefited from that nightmare of a program 😂😉

[@chadmccoy8032]

I’d like to know more about the Greens involvement.

[@fancynecromancy]

I'm going to the oddities expo in Austin on Saturday. This gonna be my listen. Come on out Dave. 💀💜💚🖤

[@daveyjaxx]

Ayyyy I’ve got shows all weekend in SA but have fun!!

[@lizwaggoner9291]

So interesting to hear directly from someone who experienced the IBLP. Can you share what happened to Davey's girlfriend (who's letters he never received) and to Brice's sister?

[@daveyjaxx]

Great suggestion! We’ll be addressing a lot of the “aftermath” stuff in episode 5 and 6 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@MutterallerDrachen2087]

Also, can we get a therapist to talk about how developmentally isolation is hard when you’re over the age of 16 anyway, but add in being under 16? That being added to the brain developmentally is insane.

[@alison2649]

Fascinating stuff! I was apart if the International Church of Christ back in the 90’s and it was definitely extreme and somewhat culty. In fact I’ve seen it on a list of biggest cults in America. Anyway it wasn’t too too bad. Looking back it was some of the best (4)years of my life

[@January14q]

Nancy French helped to expose Kanakuk Christian Camp in Branson for unreported abuse for decades. So many parents sent their children there thinking they’d be safe like Gothard’s training centers. To all who went through that my heart hurts for you.

[@janishuey3639]

My mom was raised in the Baptist church in a very small rural community in the 40’s. Her dad forbade them from dancing and playing cards (which , it turns out, he had actively participated in before marriage). Children were allowed to go to “play parties” which usually consisted of making taffy or other sweets. The cards were evil, allegedly, because you could GAMBLE with them. I think dice games were also forbidden. My mother never allowed those types of playing cards in our home, either.

[@Mushroompanda648]

Thank you again for sharing your stories. Im sure digging up old trauma is difficult but these stories need to be heard. I was raised Catholic until my parents got a divorce when I was eight and were ultimately shunned by the church. 😂 Im grateful that I was able to follow my own path after that because its traumatic to be told as a child that you are a sinner and must repent for just existing. I still shudder thinking about "confessing" my sins to the priest.

[@daveyjaxx]

Glad you came out on the other side and thank you for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@brandy4530]

Omg, when you were talking about going to these centers to train to be leaders, but it was like jail, there was no freedom. I had a friend who said growing up fundy was like being 40 growing on 5 your whole life. Even as a teenager they expected you to be as mature as a middle aged adult, but you had all the independence of a 5 year old. There was a fundamentalist mommy blogger, several years ago whose daughter ran away from home, only to realize her parents had never gotten her a birth certificate or social security card. She basically wasn’t recognized as a citizen of the United States. When regular people started storming that woman’s blog she had written posts about “raising her adult children.” They were in their 20s and didn’t even have driver’s licenses. Some of them were like 23-24 years old. Mom just didn’t think they were ready. I kept thinking, by the time I was 24 I was living in another country. Why are her kids not even ready to drive at 24 years old!

[@daveyjaxx]

It seems like a lot of these fundamental parents (not all of them mind you) have this mentality that they have to protect their kids as long as they can and as long as their kids will let them and often that’s well into adulthood

[@katwitanruna]

Break the silence. Break the cycle.

[@KatherineMartin502]

Dude broke out of the prayer room to go rollerblading. 😂😂😂

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you for understanding why this is so funny 😂😂 I mean still tragic but the rollerblading part cracked me up

[@KatherineMartin502]

@@daveyjaxx I’m not trying to downplay abuse in anyway. But kids have a way of breaking the pain and tension with simple solutions. God bless that child. Thank u for understanding. Kids like to rollerblade. Maybe the devil made him do it. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@tinyordinarydays]

@28:24 interesting fact: Gothard liked knee-length pencil skirts for the girls who worked in his office.

[@daveyjaxx]

Knowing about all of his “alleged” scandals probably preferred it for easier access

[@kateealer7]

"Make self cricisms" - Moa Zedong during the red revolution of China. Essentially, psychology speaking, if you make people be the arbituas of any act, they will feel fear and guilt just by publicly speaking that keeps them in line. Good on you for not budging.

[@jssheila]

Dr. L at Oklahoma treated us like humans. Unlike the directors at Flint and Indianapolis.

[@jssheila]

I have some really good pictures with Lindsey from Oklahoma. This is bringing back so many memories. Lindsey was able to be free and smile when we hung out together in our rooms in Oklahoma. None of us were able to put together the puzzle pieces like we are now, but we were all searching for our freedom and individuality.

[@jssheila]

Thank you for sharing your story even though it is traumatic. Just so many memories & the way you are telling it is exactly how it was. Just found a really good picture with Brice from 2004...one of the craziest mental things to work through is how the good times & good friends and the abuse were woven together in the same experiences.

[@jssheila]

Also, they definitely read our emails at Oklahoma.

[@kathrynmarie412]

Thanks!

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻❤️

[@shortybarnesyanik]

I spent time in the Indianapolis training center, Flint training center, and Big Sandy training center. I’m with Davey, I was there because I was “trouble”. Basically I wanted to date. 🙄

[@cyclespiff]

I think IBLP is why I think ankles are sexy.

[@daveyjaxx]

Oooo and shoulders!!

[@kvaldez82]

When Brice says he was at the training center for 2 years, does that mean 2 years consecutively or 2 summers? Because if he’s saying 24 months, that’s insane!

[@daveyjaxx]

From what he’s told me it was pretty consecutive. Obviously they would go home for vacations, holidays, breaks, etc. but they were at the compounds for months on end.

[@colette6984]

This is heartbreaking.

[@daveyjaxx]

It’s really sad what so many families had to go through. But for me personally I’m grateful for the experience and the person that it’s made me.

[@admin1815]

So sad. I was so confused about being a spiritual person and a religious person half of my life because of these crazy cult ideas. I know a lot of friends who suffered also. Glad I found my own path and got away from Man made rules.

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️

[@MutterallerDrachen2087]

Another Question: Do you know of any of the non born/raised-ins who went through these programs as a reform school situation who might be willing to share their perspective?

[@mothersgauri4137]

I haven't seen the documentary . I'm assuming that there may be some pretty deep, dark connections of this movement getting into government, / military, etc? Hope y'all are going to be getting into that ?

[@daveyjaxx]

Episode 3 is going to address some of that with their paramilitary program and we’ll get deeper into in another episode.

[@mothersgauri4137]

@@daveyjaxx Thanks so much.

[@MutterallerDrachen2087]

Question: Given how other similar high demand religions monitor former members, do you have any knowledge of or experience with the organization harassing and or monitoring former members?

[@melindafraser6392]

I notice Jim Bob doesn't have a happy face covering his face. Why?

[@JenniferMillerjaneofalltrades]

They read people's emails at ITC. We didnt have internet access, so we would type out our email, put it on a floppy disk, and turn it in with the email address that you wanted it sent to. When you received an email, it was to the training center's address, and it was printed off and given to us.

[@danickamartin4135]

I remember that!!

[@daveyjaxx]

Yeah that doesn’t surprise me at all 😂

[@catlover7166]

How can this treatment of minors even be legal? I know, because no one talks about it.

[@daveyjaxx]

A lot of times the parents would sign over rights

[@AmandaPaige71]

​@daveyjaxx that is insane. Holy Hell 😮

[@nomdeplume2213]

It masquerades as religion and we have freedom of religion in America

[@StephanieMiller-om3dw]

No u don't know unless u lived in it Yes a legit bad cult I grew up in and left

[@daveyjaxx]

So glad you’re out 👏🏻👏🏻

[@jennifercornman1291]

This is just like Scientology in so many ways

[@atha9056]

I attended a single's retreat at the Northwoods and got in trouble for taking my shoes off when I went running outside. I got caught in a downpour and didn't want to get the carpet wet...my toenails were not even painted😂. If only there had been O.F. pics for my wet feet...😂

[@daveyjaxx]

Lololol your bare feet were too tempting for those super spiritual god fearing men

[@liseklerekoper2441]

OMG!!! Your wet, dirty feet were too sexually stimulating for the boys there … WTF?! How, in this cult, they continually drilled into the heads of girls & women’s that they are responsible for any “lustful” feelings boys & men experience & must take responsibility for that behavior is incredibly sick & abusive.

[@merricat3025]

Is Northwoods in the UP of Michigan? I never been part of this cult. When they talked (think in docu)about place in UP I looked up where it was. I live about 100 miles from it. No idea cult compound was so close. I bet most people around there don't either.

[@atha9056]

@@merricat3025 it's in Watersmeet, MI.

[@merricat3025]

@@atha9056 thanks. I live about 100 miles from Watersmeet.

[@hollywebster6844]

I'm glad to hear about this cult from a male. I think it's easy to forget that patriarchal cults are abusive to everyone involved.

[@daveyjaxx]

Episode 3 we actually have a female ex-member and we had a really good convo about it the different experiences 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@thedustiswipedoffofourfeet3244]

Many destroyed by the deception & lies, all for greedy gain!😢

[@thedustiswipedoffofourfeet3244]

When anyone in government positions are lied to by "faith leaders" please listen to others that have been abused in these places while using the Bible to condone abuse. When a young boy is abused, dropped in the tub, bruised from head to toe, escaped by breaking the window on the 13th floor to jump from the 9th floor to run down the street in his underwear, after being stripped of all his clothes to be met by a man who was going to call the police to help & BEGGED not to call the police but his parents, to be taken to the hospital, where the young child was not only severely dehydrated but malnutritioned at 90 lbs😢 How many others that have been speaking The Truth for years, not only in this religious organization, many others that have not only committed suicide, have depression or many other physical and spiritual problems? More important, how many more children, women, families are "ordered" to learn from false teachers "character" to please men? It's sad how many use Jesus Precious Name to lord over those that have been given to them to feed tend feed not rob kill and destroy

[@sherip9854]

I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the cults attempt to change now. They seem to have revamp their website and materials to appear changed but will people follow?

[@daveyjaxx]

They have a pretty significant presence and Gothard is still active. We’ll definitely be getting into more of that!

[@taiwanaliens1675]

I'm curious how many ex IBLPers do or have done standup comedy. lol. Seems like a few of us have tried it at one time or other.

[@daveyjaxx]

Trauma breeds comedy 😂

[@daveyjaxx]

Hey DM me on IG I’d like to run a couple things past you about ITC

[@marczumhagen4149]

So the OKC thing was the sugar ban except for gothards diet coke. OKC also had a reputation for being strict but fair. Playing cards were banned at some training centers for many reasons that varied from they were "for gambling" to the face cards made a mockery of the holy family to they could use it to do tarot readings. Indianapolis TC was the worst and "Indy" was shorthand for hell and was made a swear word at most other training centers. The music was "triumphant music" were essentially hymns arranged in the style of John Phillip Susa (which is not classical music it is military band music) many times the music was even arranged and performed and recorded by ATI students. Playing cards were

[@daveyjaxx]

Indy is the only training center I ever spent time at since I was a “problem child” and it was definitely a hell hole 🔥 And you’re so right about the music lol maybe that’s why I get anxious around marching bands 😂😂

[@nedahansen3681]

Jackson Dugger is attending the ALERT Academy in Sandy Texas. I wonder if he is having discipline problems?

[@daveyjaxx]

They sent most of the Duggar boys to ALERT right?

[@valeriemoran842]

@@daveyjaxx yes, but oddly, NEVER Josh.

[@amandat7987]

​@valeriemoran842 , probably because his " indiscretions" were because of "temptrist girls." They weren't drawing enough attention to their Accountments and should stop defrauding boys in their community.

[@allisonbarbersek9246]

Was no one allowed a beard because Bill Gothard couldn't grow one?

[@delia_watercolors]

Film more of these, and get em out while it's still a hot topic 💛

[@daveyjaxx]

Episode 3 coming out Wednesday at 8pm with a female ex-member of IBLP

[@Lynxdoc]

I have heard of this and went to a Christian school for high school and followed a lot of the same ways but I always that it was a counter reaction to the hippie movement of the 60's - I always knew it was a bible study/seminar series/ etc. Didn't know it was a cult. I have seen churches incorporate other programs or seminars and I think it's an area Churches need to be very careful about I forget some of the other names but even kind scary when churches host semingly innocent things like Dave Ramsey seminars (which I don't have an issue with as long as it doesn't become an idol in of itself) Interesting how a cult can infiltrate established churches under the guise of seminars, etc. Kinda like Amway.... Every since college however I have been in stable Reformed background that places the essentials first and foremost.

[@daveyjaxx]

That was what made this cult so disturbingly successful-they weren’t interested in taking over your church, they just wanted to take over your life.

[@bubbacosta8758]

ROTC sent me this way..Quick question are you guys still Christians?

[@christineansorge5519]

I hope your homeschooling included 1984. Bring on Bryce’s sister.

[@daveyjaxx]

I read all kinds of classic literature but didn’t read 1984 or Animal Farm until much later on 😂 and she’ll be at the live event which we’ll also be streaming on KZbin 🙏🏻❤️

[@katelynbrown98]

If you want, see if you can do a collabs with both, Preacher Boys Podcast & Cults to Consciousness Channel. Preacher Boys Podcast focuses on sexual abuse in the IFB. And Cults to Consciousness has a few recent videos comparing the similarities between the IFB and the Fundamental Mormon Church.

[@daveyjaxx]

I’ll definitely check them out thank you so much 🙏🏻❤️

[@katelynbrown98]

@@daveyjaxx you're welcome!!

[@katelynbrown98]

@@daveyjaxx As someone from a liberal evangelical background-now-agnostic, seeing these conservative cults breaks my heart.

[@hull294]

This sounds sooooo like Scientology.

[@AmicaCream]

Never heard of IBLP or ATI and i am quite appalled by what the documentary is exposing

[@daveyjaxx]

It’s insane what they got away with

[@realhealthrealwealth]

What ya suppres, explodes.

[@daveyjaxx]

Feels good to get it out…also a little weird lol

[@mizzmary861]

Is it just me or does Mr. G not look embalmed?😂 complete creep vibe. So glad that people are speaking up and waking up from the cult nightmare. Please know that God is not nor ever has he been dangling anyone over Hells fire with gasoline britches on. He loves you more than you'll ever know, Thank God we're in this World but NOT of it 😉

[@daveyjaxx]

Appreciate the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@agentorange81]

Job corps was a breeze compared lol

[@daveyjaxx]

The manual labor at ITC was a special hell 😂

[@agentorange81]

@@daveyjaxx oh man I can imagine , at what point do you think they'd like to trade places ,my bets on no point

[@user-jw4fn6fh2x]

If it's a cult, it's not Christian.

[@daveyjaxx]

Hmmm not totally sure I agree with that because many of these cults would absolutely call themselves Christians and as soon as you say you have a monopoly in truth it pretty much becomes a cult of sorts.

[@mareikemuller5255]

promo sm

[@golightly5121]

Youth With A Mission is an abusive Christian cult also.

[@daveyjaxx]

Ooo haven’t heard of them I’ll have to look into it!

[@golightly5121]

The stories from the young YWAM victims are heartbreaking. There is a book highly recommended, The Subtle Power Of Spiritual Abuse, that could be helpful in understanding the dynamics of an organization that is abusive and controlling.

[@realhealthrealwealth]

ALL reLIEgions are the same. Sounds like Sciencetology with some twists.

[@daveyjaxx]

Very similar but primarily draws from fundamental Christianity/evangelicals

[@nikkio.9990]

For sure all fundamentalism/all cults follow the same pattern whether they are open cults, closed cults, commercial cults or religious cults. you probably are familiar with it, but if not I highly recommend looking into Stephen Hassan's research on cults and the BITE model he created. I left evangelicalism and also multi level marketing (a commercial cult) at two points in my life and they both fit the BITE model. My current experience as a progressive Christian in a Methodist church has been far from the control I once experienced. But I also completely understand why someone would want to stay away from all Christianity or religion.