Surviving The Shiny Happy People Cult (Part 3) - Handmaid’s Tale | Friends With Davey

"Shiny Happy People" set the record for the largest documentary series debut of all time for Prime Video. Viewers around the world have been shocked by the dark history of one of the most mysterious cults in America--and it just so happens that Davey Jackson grew up in this cult!
Former cult member, Grace, joins Davey to give her unique perspective on what it was like for a female growing up in the world of IBLP, Bill Gothard, and the Shiny Happy People cult.
Listen to Davey Jackson and Producer Josh, livestreaming with a new friend every Wednesday at 8:00PM CST.
Podcast audio available on Spotify, iTunes, and all streaming platforms.

[@tinyordinarydays]

This is a truly amazing episode. I really appreciated Grace articulating what it was like for women in this cult, and you are absolutely right that the fruit is rotten. Thank you so much for doing this series. As one of the 'lawsuit girls' I find it really healing and cathartic to listen to you and Bryce. Really proud of you all. Looking forward to the episode on ALERT and the other programmes.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for the kind words. Would love to talk with you more about your experience! Had a convo today with John Cornish from Recovering Grace and he still talks about how much he admires y’all. Your bravery is legitimately inspiring 🙏🏻❤️

[@Samantha-zu3qe]

I have been a snarker since the early Duggar days when it was difficult to find connections between them and IBLP. I still take in as much content about IBLP and the Duggars as I can possibly find and everything new I learn fascinates me. I appreciate y’all’s sense of humor about IBLP and the way you present your stories. They echo everything else I’ve heard, seen, and read but add new context and details. One small correction though-the Holts did not house Josh during his trial. In 2021 he was staying with the Reber family (whose daughter then married one of Anna’s brothers). Josh had stayed with the Holts back in 2003, around the time he confessed to them. Then from there Josh went to the Arkansas training center or with the guy who had him dig a pond.

[@gracemorton8383]

Hey! Ahhh you’re right, I got the timeline messed up. I knew he was staying with another family during the trial and confused that with the other time he stayed with the Holts. Thank you for that!

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you for clarifying!

[@RomanNavy87]

This Shiny Happy People information made me actually thankful I had a really passive dad. My mom was into Vision Forum and some of Gothard's teachings. She homeschooled and secluded me and wanted me to do the whole purity ball, not wear shorts or 2 piece swimsuits, not show shoulders etc. I refused to listen and my dad was way too passive to follow through what my mom wanted. My childhood could've been way more messed up than it was 😳

[@daveyjaxx]

It’s wild how different everyone’s experience was. Glad you made it out with limited trauma 🙏🏻❤️

[@homesteaderfiftywmartha603]

So ur mom was modest

[@Emilymk97]

I came from a high control fundie group that adopted some of the teachings. I didn't realize until this episode that I compliment in that way, it's very specific to an act or characteristic. And, the lack of purpose thing outside of god is a beast! Five years out and I'm still struggling with that. Thanks for choosing to talk about the recovery in addition to the abuse.

[@sheilawatson3886]

Just wanted to add......you have my support. Keep on telling your story. Because like the very last thing that was said in the documentary....all you had to do was talk.....keep talking and pardon me while I stand up and applaud ALL of you for taking your life back. Bravo.

[@CarolChillsCasually]

This Grace woman is awesome. So glad y’all can find humor in yalls terrible up bringing. It’s lovely to see people, especially women, who suffered coming out so strong and going forward with their stories!!

[@daveyjaxx]

So grateful that she had the courage to share her experience. We’ll be doing a live show in austin for the final episode and we’re to have her there!

[@CarolChillsCasually]

@@daveyjaxx that’s amazing!

[@MutterallerDrachen2087]

As someone who has watched the change of how more and more Scientology/ist are being held accountable for their SA and other abuses, a big part of that has been the education of people in general through documentaries & into the KZbin era. I feel like this cult is in the baby days of education to the public in the same way. Ty for starting the change that could help other victims find a voice and have back up.

[@sherip9854]

I’ve been down this Duggar snark rabbit hole a few years now and I’m really glad to see men giving a male view on all this. The more you talk the more encouraged others are to find their voice too. Keep up the great work. Glad you can find some comedy in the tough conversations. Wishing you all well. You have a community of supports out here in the world. 💕

[@daveyjaxx]

Appreciate this feedback so much. I had a convo with John Cornish from recovering grace yesterday and can’t wait for you to hear his perspective!

[@katefriend4085]

47:31 I humbly recommend the hashtag, #that'snotevenhowumbrellaswork! Because that famous graphic with the stacked umbrellas? Super insane!

[@chusha08]

I went to Verity! It was very difficult to get my IBLP parents to allow me as a girl, to get a college education. They sent me to Verity as a compromise. It had it’s own set of tyrannical teachings and expectations, but it was freedom compared to life at home.

[@leannedietrich7884]

This episode was as amazing and eye opening as the first two! Thanks to Grace for coming on and sharing her story. I am so proud of all 3 of you for how strong you are! Love and hugs! 🤗❤️

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much Leanne 🙏🏻❤️ proud of you too for making it out of that mentality

[@leannedietrich7884]

@@daveyjaxx what mentality?

[@sherrywallace2279]

Thank you for continuing to share. This episode is amazing! I appreciate Grace coming on to recount her experience. I’m so glad you all ( and countless others) found your way out of the cult. I pray that everyone continues to heal.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@leeanncornett5246]

I have 6 daughters and I agree it's terrifying with how this world is

[@laurettaleone6482]

thanks for talking about these patriarchal oppressive things openly and honestly. I saw the connection to the 1950s way of living in the show...in so many ways. Thanks for talking about how it affected the mom's, the girls; the womyn, too. Thanks for allowing her to interrupt!!!!! And be a more full human being; included and free. Such an impactful series you are doing on this. Thanks for daring to be compassionate and vulnerable in this patriarchal cult-ure that pushes this down in boys by age 5...and as Dr. Carol Gilligan's research revealed...girls lost the resonance of their voice by 11..and stopped saying what they REALLY thought and felt...so they would not be ostracized and punished. And this is just the regular patriarchal society that is global, and every day. So grateful for brave people like you all that expose this.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank so you much for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@annaeftink7061]

I am so, so sorry that these things happened to you all. Thank you for sharing your hearts.

[@christymarsh3363]

When Bill invited me to work for him I had very short hair and he asked me to grow it out. He actually said," you're beautiful from the front, but could you grow your hair out?" 😳 Naively I agreed, but I did it as absolutely slowly as I possibly could so it never really got long.

[@Itsme60804]

This sounds so similar to the stories I’ve seen on KZbin about Mormon Fundamentalist groups as well. They take the Bible and the Book of Mormon very literally as well it seems. When I watched Shiny Happy People, I immediately thought of Sam’s story (growing up in polygamy KZbin channel) about his experience in the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints; the LDS denomination is Mormonism). Shiny Happy People is comparatively similar to the FLDS documentary called “Keep Sweet, Pray, and Obey”. It’s very cultural, and creates an environment that is very harmful to men and especially harmful to women.

[@daveyjaxx]

I have a friend in NY who grew up in FLDS and I’m hoping to get him on a future episode so we can talk about some of the similarities between his childhood and mine!

[@angienichols1248]

These episodes have been so informative. I personally have not had to endure any of this but definitely have learned a lot from this!! Thank you for sharing.

[@purpleprose78]

Hey, There may be about 1000 people in your comments telling you this. But Josh didn't stay with the Holts during the trial because they disliked Jim Bob intensely by that time. Josh stayed with another friend Lacount and Maria Reber. Really enjoying this series. Grew up standard issue SBC, but the ideas still infected my church too. My dad would have died before he followed anyone that said he couldn't watch detective shows or listen to secular music so I was lucky, but still experienced purity culture and that nonsense.

[@daveyjaxx]

Yes thanks for clarifying! Grace mentioned she got mixed up on her timeline and that Josh stayed with the Holts in 2003, not during the trial. But glad to hear you dodged that crazy bullet! 🙏🏻❤️

[@darlingnickles]

This series is amazing! I went to some pretty weird non-denominational Christian churches. The puka shell necklace story (I think it was in part 1) reminds me of the time that my parents destroyed all of my peace sign and ying yang jewelry because it was making me rebellious…and a peace sign is an upside down, broken cross 🤦🏼‍♀️ Thanks for sharing your stories!

[@daveyjaxx]

“Making me rebellious” 😂😂😂 I had that exact same experience and was forced to throw away all of my necklaces 😓

[@darlingnickles]

@@daveyjaxx but were you less rebellious after the necklaces were gone? 🤣

[@baemaxbby]

Grace is amazing and her perspective and humor added in is so great 💗 You all are so incredibly strong and amazing for sharing your stories and for how far you’ve come. When Bryce broke down speaking about the new documentary, I wanted to reach across the screen and hug you all. It’s not your fault and thank you all for strength for sharing and I’ll be around to listen to your stories for as long as you’re willing to share 💗

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️ thank you so much!

[@debrastrayer8600]

Great show for part 3. Thanks for the good work you're doing. Congratulations on your recovery. Looking forward to part 4.❤

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much 🥹🙏🏻❤️

[@janishuey3639]

Is it ok to say I find these episodes both informative and enjoyable? I wasn’t raised by fundamentalist “Christians”(which I consider an oxymoron) but there is definitely much of my upbringing that overlaps with your recollections. Grace was spot on that absolute power corrupts absolutely. That Got Hard either didn’t see it or didn’t care is astounding. I guess as long as the money kept pouring in, the number of fiefdoms he created didn’t matter.

[@daveyjaxx]

We absolutely intended for these episodes to enjoyable while exposing the corruption and evil of the cult! Thank you so much for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@lindabishop7824]

I also have to say that I have watched all the episodes that you have put out so far regarding Shiny Happy People. I really appreciate the way that you have gone deep into what this cult was like. Keep up the good work.

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️

[@josephguenther4775]

4:50 Thank you so much for this. My parents fall into the second category, but no one ever talks about it. I always wondered why they bought into it when they were so nice; I worried I was overlooking some vile part of their nature.

[@daveyjaxx]

Yes! My parents were the same. Just looking for answers and support and wound up at a basic seminar. Not a malicious bone in their bodies. Of course their are evil people that saw an opportunity for exploitation in this cult but I think most of our parents wouldn’t fall into that category at all. Thank you for the support🙏🏻❤️

[@cblazgoogle3844]

Great show again! Loved the pic at the end!.. Grace, really, has it together! Enjoyed her take so much!

[@daveyjaxx]

She was great right! Thanks so much for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@glendacox6540]

So fascinating a story! I’m so sad thinking of the loss of your childhood. You all deserved better..☮️☮️☮️

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️

[@allisongoodman4806]

Thank you all for sharing your stories. I am grateful that you are willing to do this and I hope it will continue to shine a bright light onto the darkness of this cult. ❤ from AL. I look forward to the next episode.

[@daveyjaxx]

Watching the outpouring of support has been such an inspiration 🙏🏻❤️ thank you so much!

[@EytsirhcChristye]

Thank you for doing this, guys. ❤

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you for supporting! ❤️

[@Boahemaa]

The Holts had an interesting dynamic in the documentary. She let him drown explaining going after a 14 year old while he was 19. Made him seem creepy. He also lied about having 2 children and she corrected it and said 11. There were signs Mrs. Holt was trying to break free.

[@daveyjaxx]

I got weird vibes from him every time he was on screen. Just seemed very disingenuous and now I know he was just evil.

[@janishuey3639]

@@daveyjaxxI’m grateful to Bobbye for testifying so that Jill didn’t have to, but there are many holes in their story and parts of it don’t ring true, imo. They and so many others failed to do the right thing and report Josh and get him out of the home permanently. We may not have known it then, but we know now that predators cannot be rehabilitated.

[@iw9338]

Thanks very much, praying for continued healing for all Y'all 🙏💜😅

[@digitalHistorian]

Thank you for sharing. I know it can't be easy but for everyone who is still in and everyone who came through, your voices matter. ♥️

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️

[@coachraylo]

I am sad that all of this happened with Gothard and Doug Phillips. When people read less of the Bible and prioritize a man's preferences and opinions over it, this unfortunately happens.

[@daveyjaxx]

I think it’s more they read into the Bible too much and create false narratives to fit their extreme views. Gothard and Phillips just capitalized on it and exploited thousands of people.

[@jamiemcvay130]

The really sad thing is that Gothard still has not repented. He has never taken responsibility for what he did. He will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ.

[@Dulcimertunes]

Like Ravi

[@melissawickersham9912]

Cult leaders and sexual abusers like Gothard are likely to be incapable of feeling remorse or guilt for what they do. They are likely to have narcissistic personality disorder and/or at least one or more of the psychological traits of the Dark Triad: Machiavellianism, malignant narcissism, and psychopathy.

[@pollsfriend]

Once again a great episode! Thanks for what you’re doing. I commented and mentioned Teen Challenge before- the Pentecostal rehab program. Something mentioned reminded me of them again. All of the peripheral IBLP programs that were “severed” was exactly how Teen Challenge was with the Assembly of God and Pentecostal churches. They technically severed from the AOG in the 80’s, and they will tell you this. What they won’t say is their main support comes from Pentecostal churches and the program is still very much Pentecostal.

[@daveyjaxx]

That’s what I keep trying to explain to people who say ALERT cut ties with IBLP or that IBLP is not connected to Bill Gothard anymore. They’re intrinsically linked.

[@pollsfriend]

@@daveyjaxx Right. These kinds of programs are almost impossible to understand unless you've been on the inside

[@legallyoverton]

Fascinating content and well done, even despite the annoying amount of “like” and “uh” usage. Still love it.❤

[@barbarabrooks4747]

If the IRS would just go after financial irregularities and fraud in religious groups, most cults could be weakened into insignificance. There's always financial malfeasance in cults.

[@daveyjaxx]

Absolutely true!

[@nurserobin]

I'm so thankful I found you. I really appreciate all your episodes on SHP. A new subscriber. Thank you.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@nancykuykendall1341]

OFFS, which god is not mad at you? Y'all are almost there. I do fully support you for your courage for breaking loose of the madness and helping others do so.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you 🙏🏻❤️

[@Alphacat1100]

What an amazing show! Thank you for sharing so honestly.

[@leslieh3686]

Great episode just wanted to correct something the family that Josh stayed with during his trial was lacount and maria Reber. However Maria did say she was not comfortable after hearing his charges .

[@leslieh3686]

Also fun fact Anna's brother ended up marrying the rebers daughter. And I believe I'm correct in saying that they new friends to Jim bob

[@daveyjaxx]

Yes you’re absolutely right and we’ll correct that in Episode 4! Thank you 🙏🏻❤️

[@mothersgauri4137]

Excellent. Super important information. People need to hear this.👍

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much 🙏🏻❤️

[@Doe808eoD]

Keep up the good work! You are more than what happened to you, but it’s so important to talk about it.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for the support 🙏🏻❤️ and absolutely people need to acknowledge their trauma to move past it.

[@lizhoward9754]

You three are hilarious! Very quick witted! I would love to know how Bryce and Dave got out of the cult. You guys all seem so rational and “normal” for people raised in cults.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much! Episode 5 and 6 and the live show we do at the end of July in Austin, TX will be devoted in large part to leaving the cult and life after 🙏🏻❤️

[@laurenturner3578]

What's amazing listening is that I grew up similarly - very conservative Christian homeschooled - but while many families were large, I also knew multiple families who stopped having children because the mom's health had become less good. Never once heard some glorifying death in childbirth. That would be horrifying. We did not go to college because my family concluded it would be a lot of time and money without a lot of return. My siblings immediately started working their way into their careers and taking more targeted education rather than automatic college. Modesty was really not a big issue to us either. My parents didn't really have a standard and we sort of formulated our own and there was as much for the boys as the girls. My dad pretty much took his hands completely off the decisions of us getting married. He wouldn't read any of the courtship stuff either, because he thought when he heard the concepts it was a little excessive and he didn't think it was going to help us any.

[@daveyjaxx]

There is definitely a spectrum on the Christian homeschool experience. I actually think most homeschoolers are doing it the right way and for the right reasons and facilitating a great education for their kids.

[@janishuey3639]

Your dad is smart. College is a lot of time and money with little return. I have a niece who got married with thousands and thousands of dollars of college debt. She and her husband are both elementary school teachers and I don’t see them ever getting out of debt unless that college loan is forgiven. They are not good money managers, imo, and although my niece would love to stay home with their preschool age daughter, their lifestyle and their debt makes that improbable.

[@liseklerekoper2441]

Excellent episode to go with the other 3 & appreciate all that you’re sharing & your guests as I know it must be triggering in parts. I wish you all continued healing. There is 1 piece bit of information your guest on this episode gave that’s incorrect. Josh did not stay w/ the Holt’s during the trial, because by then, which was just last October 2022, the Holts had distanced themselves completely from the Duggars. I heard that from multiple sources & Josh was ordered by the court not to be w/ any minor children. The Holts still had a minor child or two still in the home so that’s just another reason it wasn’t true that Josh stayed there. Josh could only see his own kids w/ Anna present, which is a scary thought given how much in denial she remains. Josh stayed w/ the Reebers who were church friends. Not sure if I’m spelling that correctly, but their daughter Hannah ended up marrying one of the Bates’ boys shortly after the new year.

[@susanwragg937]

I woke up to find part 3 released, you’ve made my day! You’re all so candid about your experiences and open about your lives in IBLP. It’s incredible to see how you’ve all adjusted into ‘normal’ life after leaving. I would be really curious to find out how it all impacted on your faith, do you still have any degree of faith or are you now all true atheist? Xx

[@daveyjaxx]

Aww thank you! I still consider myself very spiritual, just not in the traditional sense at all. We’ll definitely be getting into more of that in episodes 5 & 6 🙏🏻❤️

[@susanwragg937]

Thank you so much for sharing your lives with us Davey, you’ve raised so much awareness of the struggles you’ve all faced and also for taking the time to reply to each of us leaving comments. You’re an incredibly strong and inspiring group of people ❤

[@mitochondria558]

The closest my church would come to trying to justify fatphobia was "you have to take care of your temple" or "you're not honoring your husband by letting yourself go". And we all got shamed by our ex military pastor and his wife, who were in great shape. It was pretty cruel seeing as food was the only earthly pleasure we were allowed lol

[@daveyjaxx]

Shame and guilt are very common tactics used in fundamental Christian organizations so that doesn’t surprise me at all. So sorry you had to experience that ❤️

[@user61512]

Do you think it was to blame, out of shape women for husbands cheating?

[@mitochondria558]

The part about having to marry who the dad says is wild - I was raised super fundamentalist but my mom would NEVER let that happen, thank goodness. She was telling my sister up until the last second that she didn't have to marry her first husband.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank god for reasonable parents 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@janishuey3639]

“First” husband. That speaks volumes. My parents definitely had thoughts about who my two brothers and I dated, but they didn’t interfere with our choices.

[@amylink7199]

We had an IFB church in our community. I hate to say that my mother despised them, but… She despised what they were doing. She always said that the women grew their hair long so that their husbands could drag them around by it.

[@goodkarna]

Omg, love the photo,! You're so Kevin Max!

[@daveyjaxx]

😂😂😂 it was my best attempt at being emo Kurt Cobain

[@chadmccoy8032]

It’s creepy hearing “pursue”. That is predatory.

[@amycasey821]

Josh stayed with the Rebers during the trial . Not the Holts

[@hollywebster6844]

Does Grace have a podcast or KZbin channel? Sorry if this is mentioned later, but I don't want to forget to ask. I am enjoying how she shares information.

[@daveyjaxx]

I don’t think she has her own podcast (yet) but she’s definitely on IG!

[@hippymusicgirl8672]

I was not in the iblp but my non demoniational church followed so much of the books and rules. I had a two month old baby and my ex husband was really mentally abusive. Keeping me up sometimes 36-48 hours i went to the pastor who married us and he said to me that i should treat him as a nonbelieving husband and win him over without a word unless he physically hurts u with marks then go to the police. It did happen and i went to the police but dod not get a final restraining order because i have bipolar and he wouldnt let me take my meds when pregnaunt and i breastfed. He came back home and i submitted. Soon after my son came. Now we always wanted whatever the lord would give us as we believed back then. He was so wanted believe me. I do not regret him at all. But because of the beluefs i had nerous restraining orders and then they expired. I lost every friend except one as they said non believer. Everyone else was either i shouldnt have ever got a restraining order from my godly husband or you should have never dropped the restraining order. Or if it was true on the restraing order you should have gotten it earlier. That one was fun. Damnded either way. I was married 16 years. I stopped him from divorce two times finally he forced me to sign. Now he has a utube chanel with over 28000 subscribers while all he does it talk about him. Oh yeah one subscriber left a comment that i wouldhve been better off dead than what i did to my Godly husband for divorcing him and being crazy. All nasty comments are left on his channel. I have found peace finally. I have become a secular buddist and if science proves what i believe then the belief is changed by science. I am way better off thats for sure. Well thanks for listening to me and for sharing your heartaches so others can heal

[@daveyjaxx]

Thanks so much for sharing. I’m sorry you were stuck in that nightmare for so long but happy you escaped and found a way of life that works for you 🙏🏻❤️

[@hippymusicgirl8672]

@@daveyjaxx ty. It took years to realize and now i am moving asap to my 22 yr old daughter who married a man worse than my ex. Although not religious my biggest regret was not protecting them as much as a mom could. I tried so hard yet this.... im dishearted but i know how she should be treated and hopefully she will listen to me not her father ugh. Again. Ty for putting this out there and for listening i cannot imagine the trials and hell u guys went through with training centers and all. Man. My ex wouldhve been there to disipline you guys as kids. Its such a disgrace.. hugs to you all....

[@SunshineRox007]

The Proverbs 31 woman worked in and out of the home. But the IBLP fails to mention that.

[@daveyjaxx]

Not to mention cultural norms have evolved dramatically since the time of king Solomon 😂😂

[@Dulcimertunes]

Right!

[@L.Akosua]

Another great episode 😊 When you mentioned Doug Philips, I thought of a "Doug" from the Netflix documentary "The Family". Different Doug (Coe), but I wonder if IBLP and The Family are connected, as they both seek conservative, right wing "Christian" world domination? Netflix also features a disturbing documentary - "Our Father" - about a fertility doctor who insiminated hundreds of women with his own semen to fulfill the quiverfull mission. God bless you for continuing to address these issues 💜

[@iw9338]

Bryce, I feel you about not knowing Davey was drunk or high, I had same issue with older brother, who eventually took his life.

[@allisonfranks661]

I don't know if someone has already commented on this but the pest did NOT stay at the Holts while he was awaiting trial. He was at another families home and that wife did state in the preliminary hearing that she was uncomfortable but the judge granted the bail and so he went there. He had stayed at the Holts tho yrs before AFTER they knew what he had done because they were counseling him. 🙄

[@lindasoderberg9477]

Looking forward to vlogs describing how the deconstructing/disentangling journey was/is for them.

[@daveyjaxx]

We’ll be covering that in depth in episode 5 & 6 and in the live show we’re doing at the end of July in Austin, TX.

[@karinglowski9391]

I want to share w u guys. Yes the girls suffered but so did you young men. My heart breaks for my boys. I hope I can figure out how to help them understand what I did might be part of the struggles they face now.

[@ALSN317]

The ever-changing rules were hard to take. One person gets in trouble for bare feet. I was in the first EQUIP. We had one instructor that had everyone go barefoot (for some reason I've blocked from my mind.) I put my shoes back on during the break. We were hanging out outside. My group leader did not approve. What ever we were told to do was as a treated as if it was straight from God. It was exhausting.

[@daveyjaxx]

I’d love to hear more about your experience in EQUIP. I’ve talked a lot with the ALERT graduates but haven’t heard much about the women’s program.

[@ALSN317]

I’m happy to share what I haven’t blocked from my memory. My experience was different in some ways. I wasn’t raised in ATI. I came in as an apprenticeship student. I lasted that year in EQUIP. I came home wanting nothing more to do with that experience.

[@homesteaderfiftywmartha603]

@@daveyjaxxyou need Jesus

[@gaylemacdonell104]

Recovery is the hardest part & still going thru it. How do I raise my kids? So many things are triggering. Dealing with after cult.

[@stephaniehenderson6631]

Great video! I would love to know more about the 'it really means do not sleep with prostitutes' comment from the lovely Grace. It is important to me as a 'committed christian' ( I do not like the words 'born again' due to the way their meaning and associations have changed). It is vital that we understand the how of the way that Scriture has been translated and interpreted to be used for control and coercive purposes so that we can recognise it for ourselves. Bobye Holt did speak out to convict Joshua Duggar, for that I totally applaud her, her personal contribution was enormously important in that case. In terms of the restraining order she has against Jim Holt, she may well have been legally separated and take out a restraining order to avoid being implicated in any abuse herself, allegedly.

[@daveyjaxx]

I’m not a biblical scholar by any means so I’d have to let Grace elaborate on that. I think the larger point is there are some things we interpret too literally in the Bible and I think you’re exactly right about so many verses being misapplied in order to coerce and control 🙏🏻❤️

[@DawnKratzer]

thank you for sharing you are all stupid strong to do this

[@daveyjaxx]

Appreciate you g 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@RussianJen]

Thank you for this! I gotta know - is there any information about the Russian orphans that were brought over, what happened to them? My best friend and I went to Russia and lived as volunteers in an orphanage for a few yrs, and several times people asked us if we were with the "orphan stealing cult". I was super confused what in the world they were talking about, but putting all this together - they were talking about IBLP! We were literally living there just helping and doing what we could to love the kids, but there was SO much suspicion because they'd all heard of this American "Christian" group that took orphans to Moscow and then they were never seen again 😳

[@r.j.miller]

Verity grad here. I have an accredited degree BS in “independent studies in nutritional science.” from charter oak state college. I have lots of regrets about college, but it was a fully accredited degree

[@daveyjaxx]

Does Verity essentially just route your degree through an accredited institution? I got my degree from thomas edition university which is similar to charter oak college. So I don’t think the degrees are coming from Verity right? It’s basically just a place to study for standardized testing and then all the credits are compiled at a 3rd party institution (e.g. charter oak).

[@r.j.miller]

@@daveyjaxx The degree is not from Verity. Yeah verity is homeschooling college. Lol 🤮 I was spared from gothard but the damage was done and extremely complicated as you are showing so extremely well thanks!

[@jerpica.d6735]

Grace doing the Michelle voice seductively to Jim bob was side splitting funny oh my god. I need more.

[@daveyjaxx]

She had us cackling with that one 😂😂😂

[@naomidehaan1589]

Will you have any podcast on the STEP program (aka girl's ALERT)? Would love to hear from some other STEP graduates about their stories.

[@daveyjaxx]

I’m just now learning about this wow!! Had no idea 🤯 we’ll definitely mention it in episode 5 and I’ll see if I can find someone with experience

[@JenniferMillerjaneofalltrades]

Courtship in our house was different. If a guy came to my dad, my dad asked my opinion. If I wasn't for the guy, my dad wasn't for the guy. At one point at the ITC, we were forced to diet using Gwen Shambiln's Weigh Down Workshop. Why? Because Mr. Gothard said that the staff was getting fat. Do you know that storage room on the west end of the building where they stored extra tables and chairs for the dining room? Well, that's where we had to report each Saturday evening to be weighed, proving we were losing weight. Defrauding dress meant that no one was to see a panty line through a skirt. All the female staff members were called into the Equip room and told what style panties we were and were not allowed to wear.

[@daveyjaxx]

I mean technically the only way to eliminate a panty line is to not wear panties 👀 I wonder how they would have reacted to that logic 😂😂

[@sewingintrifocals-alisonde7778]

@@daveyjaxx, K started thinking about the Mormon “holy underwear “ when I read the above posts! 😅

[@1951kvk]

Gil Bates is still on the Board at IBPL???? He seemed much more reasonable than Jim Bob Duggar.

[@ndisfoshiz]

Just to comment on grace’s comment about josh not being in jail during the trial. It wasn’t the Holts he stayed with it was another family friend who have two adult children. They’re daughter later went on to marry one of Josh’s wife,Ana, brother.

[@HeidiSue60]

The foolishness of not allowing children to let off steam. I saw it in the homeschooling group I hung around with (not IBLP at all, but some families followed the modesty/purity stuff and dominion theology held sway) ... kids that sheltered will NOT know what to do when they see the real world. I knew of families where the girls went haywire, sleeping around. Boys who attempted s**cide, kids who got into cutting. One family who I was really close with, we were visiting one evening, all of my kids, and their kids, and they had company...the leader of a homeschooling group across the state from us. His main business was delivering for a food co-op and he was in our area delivering. Azure Standard. They're a great co-op. Anyway, this quite strict, upright, uptight dad and some of his kids were there. My kids (of course) started a fun game with a flattened cardboard box and their stairs hahahaha. My oldest (of course) started it and everyone was having so much fun...except this strict dad's kids. While everyone else was romping, sliding down the stairs, being a little bit like CHILDREN, these kids stood and watched. I felt so bad for them. We didn't let it go on very long, because we weren't there for the kids to turn the house into a gymnasium, but it settled the kids down as well and no harm done. Anyway...watching these interviews and hearing how Gothardism infiltrated Evangelical Xtianity via homeschooling...feeling triggered because my family were exploring the fringes of it when they were little...it's been healing for me. You don't have to be "in the cult" for the stiff, strict "biblical" teachings to hammer your own faith and practices.

[@mariaziajor5219]

Thank you ❤️

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻❤️

[@lindabishop7824]

Josh did not stay in the home of the Holts he stayed with the Rebers who's daughter is now married to Anna Duggar's brother. Mrs. Reber did not want Josh in her home. she did not know about his abuse of his sisters until the bail hearing. But it is true that the Holts let Josh stay in their home after they knew that he had abused his sisters and they knew that he had a porn issue as well. They are not the saints that they now portray themselves as. They still wanted to see if Josh and their daughter could continue to marriage. Apparently he did something else while he was there and they sent him home.

[@daveyjaxx]

Yes you’re absolutely correct! Apparently Josh wasn’t welcome at a lot of homes.

[@StephanieMiller-om3dw]

Keep going guys Well done

[@daveyjaxx]

Much appreciated 🙏🏻❤️

[@jamieohare5096]

Josh didn’t stay with the Holts during the trial. He stayed with the Rebers, and Hannah Reber is now married to Anna Duggar’s little brother.

[@julielehman4159]

Exactly. They got that part wrong.

[@daveyjaxx]

That’s correct thank you!

[@Crusaders76]

I BLP IS A CASH COW - HOWEVER BILL WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT TO THE LORD -

[@goodkarna]

PTL!

[@marionmoulton5847]

The Holts were not the family that housed Josh during the trail.

[@juliewood4282]

He did counter sue them. But the women won, in that case.

[@daveyjaxx]

I knew Gothard filed sanctions that were denied by the court but I wasn’t aware he actually went through with a counter suit against the women. I do know that he sued IBLP to try to regain control of the cult.

[@JoannesWeb]

Thank you for sharing all of your experiences. It has brought some clarity and perspective to people like me, who know people who were involved in this. _ana

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for supporting this series and supporting your friends 🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️

[@MarthaReagan-o2f]

Thanks!!!

[@mermaidlilyrose]

41:20 I resonate with what she is saying so much. I spent my adolescence in a very religious mega church southern culture. I was groomed to be a wife and a devout servant to my future husband. That is all I thought about as a teenager; that and saving the world for Christ. Decades & one divorce later, I am very much anti-Abrahamic religion & I stay out of conventional relationships for this reason. Even outside of extreme religious circles, this programing is deeply embedded in us all. I am so afraid that my old programming will kick back in and I will allow myself to be an object or a possession or property of the guy who I commit to. It's a programming so deep in us all in a society that values men above the woman. Even "progressive" people fall into this trap. I don't know how to reconcile that within myself, so I just stick to situationships, lol🤦🏾‍♀️🤣. At least I have freedom & I typically don't activate the possiveness in the guy cause I never agreed to anything past the moments we share together. And I don't activate the knee-jerking subservience I was trained to have when I am committed. Not saying my way is right, because I do want more devotion in my partnerships. But I don't want to deal with the crappy programming that's so deep with us all 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@legallyoverton]

If you study th3 etymology of “virgin” it meant unwed woman, not chaste.

[@williamcarr6181]

I have that same Gerber multi tool on my belt. Right now. In a custom holster.

[@daveyjaxx]

Damn dude how do you keep the ladies off of you??

[@ElevenBird]

I've told fellas I don't want to hear about "proverbs 31" if they aren't prepared to pay for the hand maidens

[@daveyjaxx]

😂😂😂 if we’re going to take those verses literally we have to take them ALL literally

[@Crusaders76]

OK HOW ABOUT RAZI Zacharias,

[@auntredbee]

Your coverage is amazing! So glad to hear y’all share your stories. Question-were y’all taught that people outside the IBLP were dangerous & not to be trusted? If so, how long did it take to start trusting & step out from that umbrella?

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much! I was taught that anything/anyone “worldly” was dangerous but growing up I did have friends that weren’t part of the cult. For me I already didn’t trust the umbrella mentality after spending time at the Indianapolis compound so rejected everything in pretty short order. It was more the guilt associated with religious indoctrination that took a long time for me to get over.

[@brickwitheyes1710]

The word used for Mary doesn't mean virgin either, it's a mistranslation, it means young women. There is a different Greek word that specifies virgin

[@elizabethwillis885]

Bobye and Jim Holt DID NOT have Josh in their home during the trial. That is a different family. Whose daughter married Anna Duggar’s youngest brother.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you for clarifying 🙏🏻 someone in the live chat mentioned that as well so we’ll correct it in Episode 4! Much appreciated ❤️

[@elizabethwillis885]

@@daveyjaxx no problem. The Reber Family had to deal with Josh living at their house during the trial and the wife wasn’t comfortable with it. Their adult daughter Hannah Reber was living there at the time. I assume that’s how she met Anna Duggar’s youngest brother David. Hannah and David are now married. I believe the Holts distanced themselves from the Duggars years ago. I also believe Bobye testifying against Josh meant Jill Duggar Dillard didn’t have to. Which saved Jill from reliving her trauma in front of everyone yet again.

[@christinedaileywalck]

Aww I love how he talks about is sisters.

[@daveyjaxx]

Brice is one of the best dudes I know 🙏🏻❤️

[@christinedaileywalck]

@daveyjaxx you both are amazing. Im glad I stumbled across this. 💙🙏

[@Dulcimertunes]

Can anyone elaborate on Doug Philips photographing in Europe?

[@StephanieMiller-om3dw]

One family in the Church named their Kids faith grace hope joy mercy lol

[@daveyjaxx]

That’s a fundamental Christian hat trick 😂

[@AngryPug76]

As a former teacher I assure you that’s very common in Christian Southern families regardless of their denomination.

[@helenr4300]

It is absolutely vital that those who suffered SA get heard to the extent they choose. And that those horrors are exposed. But need to expose the impact of those brought up in such a toxic teaching. Is there even a way to estimate the number of people under IBLP and other programmes., and what percentage have struggled in adulthood as a dire t result. And how many are a generation or more in? That is also abuse as your sharing recognises. It is appalling that material and org still out there

[@daveyjaxx]

You’re absolutely right and thank you for pointing this out. Obviously what these women went through is tragic and evil but it was symptomatic of the environment of manipulation and exploitation that was enabled by the belief systems and ideologies of the cult. Unfortunately there aren’t many statistics available on the impact that IBLP had, but it’s estimated that over 3 million people have been affiliated in some form or another over the years the cult has been active.

[@helenr4300]

@@daveyjaxx 3 million - yikes

[@Dulcimertunes]

Why is there a statue of limitations on SA?😡

[@billiewilliams523]

Can anyone post a link to the documentary Until the Truth?

[@Dulcimertunes]

Still in progress

[@StephanieMiller-om3dw]

I was raised in this junk plus baptist Amish Mennonite mix a mess

[@daveyjaxx]

Whoaaa that’s a wild mix 🤯

[@missshaq6086]

Josh Duggar did not stay with the holts during his trial. He stayed with the Reber family.

[@daveyjaxx]

Yes you’re correct thank you!

[@homesteaderfiftywmartha603]

😂😂😂oh my gosh- y’all need to address the ADULT parents- not IBLP / ATII.. I guess if you make it a cult it is YOUR cult- because we didn’t do all this!! Poor people can’t afford to get involved 🎉

[@huntersabol8472]

Question- were women allowed to have credit cards or bank accounts etc. in their name?

[@daveyjaxx]

It really just depended on the family. The dad was considered the “ultimate authority” and whatever he decided about the finances was law.

[@rhondadearborn3265]

If Alert and IBLP are still going, what is their response to this documentary and the wrath of the media, etc.?

[@daveyjaxx]

I haven’t reached out to them directly for comments, etc. but it seems like they’ve tried to distance themselves from all the scandals as much as possible-but we know the truth.

[@rhondadearborn3265]

@@daveyjaxx I thought they would make some kind of ridiculous press release filled with lies like Scientology just did with the Danny Masterson verdict.