David Duval Golf Swing Analysis

[@chadb2738]

This is a great video. I have a swing very similar to Duval and I've ran into the same problems of getting the club stuck too far behind myself. This is a phenomenal reference for me when I'm running into issues to come back to this.

[@jeffcaminiti162]

Such a great and spot on analysis here. Loved how with his strong grip he had more of a shut face going back and it would square back up as he would shallow and rotate. Like you said as he got more underneath however that stalled his rotation in turn led to clubface issues. Good analysis here!

[@pwbnola]

First off, I want to tell you how impressed I've always been with your videos and your swing observations. They truly are top notch and I wish you got more recognition as a teacher. However, for this video, I do want to point something out. The swing on the left side of the screen in the first half of the video was actually taken in 1998. You said in the video that it was shot five of six years ago (which based on the date of this youtube post would mean the swing was supposedly from 2004 or 2005). He was starting to play great golf in 1998 so obviously, the move he made at the time of that swing was still very effective.

[@ColbyStewart1965]

Wayne, this is great. I always loved DD swing; and enjoyed your analysis! Thank you

[@bjnwright]

Duval was awesome in his day. Overtook Tiger as number one player in the world. Shot 59 in a competitive round! Strong strong left hand grip really sets the scene for his swing, then he has to clear everything, including his head early, on the way down to square the club face. Luv it.

[@tomnelson8515]

Great analysis.

[@stackleft8998]

what a great golf swing. people forget just how good he was in his prime. that rotation through the ball back in the 90's is pure perfection.

[@stackleft2925]

Wayne... good stuff here. People just forget how good Duval was. This is the swing that I have basically copied with the head movement through the ball.

[@mobydoug]

Nice job, Wayne, showing how David gets stuck on the downswing.... He was such a wonderful golfer around 1999. He has since famously found personal happiness with a fine wife and children.......but fans like me still miss his former golf brilliance. Duval, had he sustained the level he was playing at in '99, would have become one of the greatest golfers of all time, right up there with Nicklaus and Woods. If only he could return, in the twilight of his career, to his former greatness.

[@Nightwing690]

Wayne, you are the one person who can make David the golfer he once was, the fairway splitting, laser guided iron and magical short game destructive force he once was, please get in touch with him and help him, it'd mean a lot to your fans that are also fans of duval

[@samuelhoward7213]

lol

[@johnnynight2301]

One of the Greatest all time swings, amazing how his head comes up way before ball is struck just like Annika...

[@kyleroar]

Great stuff Wayne...I hope you get that page set up soon on your website so I can send you my swing.

[@bradcarter6286]

It wasn’t a meltdown. Golf is tough for everyone. Even tour pros.. things happen. I don’t think anyone with the talent and game Duval has should ever be considered a meltdown.

[@dougstofelonline3710]

The title that came up showed “1999 vs 2010” and the picture on the right looks more modern so I’m assuming the swing on the right is the 2010 swing. However, you also talk about his “meltdown” (ie he used to be a top golfer and then declined). But it seems you’re also speaking to the swing on the right being the better swing. So, I’m really confused. Is the old/good Duval swing the one on the right or the one on the left?

[@meetMr7]

Wayne He's much slower (lethargic) getting off of his right side, raising the right foot. This could be the easy fix, since he can't clear his hips fast enough to free up the arms when he's hanging back like this. If he gets athletic again, I think David's well on his way back. Enjoy your vids. Duval fan here too.

[@GKSireland]

Wayne, this angle you talk about post-impact with David Duval, is similar to that of Furyk. Can you explain why this is so good? Its such a "look" to the more orthodox swings... Thanks, gks

[@goodgirlkay]

One day they have to make a movie about this guy. As a little girl, I used to love him. he seemed so cool and he almost never took off his sunglasses. Now that I am older, I wonder if he has Asperger's or something like that, he always seemed so detached or unable to connect with people...So sad that he imploded (golf wise). Would love to see him revive his game.

[@Msalera77]

I always thought this was a great, underrated swing. One question Wayne, any chance you could do a video on Jeev Milkha Singh? I swear he gets that club much lower than address, and it shouldn't be a huge surprise as he's won a ton of cash. He also lowers a decent amount on the way down, so when you throw it all together it seems surprisingly like Hogan...would love to hear your thoughts.

[@trublood6985]

The vid on the left was taken on a practice range, where David may have been working on drawing the ball with his driver, hence inside out. The one on the right was better form I agree, but it was during a round and he was purposely hitting a fade with a fairway metal.

[@dr.reidsheftalltruthinscie2007]

The swings are very different. No wonder David started losing it left a little... He's coming way more from the inside as you point out Wayne... David's father Bob Duval was a teacher and a VERY good player as you know (won an event on the Champion's Tour). I mention this because even with a teacher/player father, David did it HIS way (meaning a lot of teachers would have tried to change him and get rid of the idiosyncracies). Good thing Bob was smart enough to let David hit the ball the way he was most comfortable. I was told by a mutual friend that what hurt David later was that he lost accuracy on his driver and he was known as one of the greatest drivers of the ball , if not the greatest , in the lalte 90s; every one 285 yds with a 5 yard fade right down the middle. David is still a great player and could come back because he still can putt lights out.. We're from the same town but I was gone by the time he came through.. I would tell him to forget going to a bunch of teachers who will want to "fix" him and just re-connect with your youth... Almost everyone who starts hooking the ball falls down in the rankings Monty had enough sense to abort when he was looking for more distance... Look at Lydia Ko last year; fell out of the top ten when Led tried to get her to hook the ball for more distance.. David as far as I know didn't do it on purpose of course like so many others...

[@jimmya67]

Looks like he was taking the club back outside the line in '99 which set the club more in front of his body at the top. This combined with an aggressive clearing of the body made for a nice power fade move ala Trevino. With the more current swing he is bringing it back inside the line and gets trapped. He needs to work on getting the width back in his swing and also like to see more hip turn with a more solid brace against the left side.

[@Goontrader2]

Shoulders open at address when he was playing well. Made it easy for him to cover the ball and work the power fade. Now David's shoulders are square, he gets underneath the ball.

[@Nightwing690]

so with any good swing, the right arm will never drop straight down as well?

[@kiwijohn01]

Over the top from the inside?

[@Jim_Harwood]

Wayne-- do you think David could overcome some of the swing faults you have identified? Secondly at age 43 years old does he even want to grind on tour anymore?

[@Robert-ts2ef]

He makes my back twinge just looking at him swinging.

[@sco3putt]

Wayne did you see his take on his swing with Rymer in playing lessons?

[@sco3putt]

Yes. I agree. That's why for the most part instruction from top PGA tour players is close to worthless. They only give you feels that work for them.

[@norrispg]

Wayne, you whiffed on this one...there's two months time separating these two if in fact the one on the right is from August 1999...the one on the left is the 1999 Tour Championship at Champions Golf Club...also, you're looking at a driver swing (teed up) on the left and a fairway wood on the right...DD worked harder left when fading the ball (like the one on the right) and it is appears to me that he was not trying to fade the driver swing...he needed to draw 3 or 4 drivers per round that week

[@FredCDobbs-er4qd]

I assume that David injured his lower back somewhere along the way. Is that true? If so, sooner or later, a golfer has to figure a way to get around it to stay competitive at the PGA Tour level. That is very difficult. The swing changes he has made between these swings seems to be of the type to try and protect the lower back. But like you say here, he is getting stuck behind his right side by trying not to make that fast turn with his hips into the ball. Now, I have had the same trouble in having that bad back. The only thing I could do was to slow everything up. In other words, same motion without the huge torque in my spine. It works but the ball will never go as far as it used to go. I know that you can't lose a lot of distance and still stay on tour. He seems to be trying to find a way but I don't think it exists. Poor guy. I feel for him but there will come a time when he will have to find another avenue if he wants to stay around golf. He's a good analyst and that may be his path. Competitive golf, I think, may be beyond his physical ability. He could easily be the next Ken Venturi and that wouldn't be bad.

[@Nightwing690]

@wdefrancesco and you?

[@jpkircherhcglf]

how much does the camera angle have to do with these videos?

[@fondu321]

was it just me or did David look with his eyes toward the target prior to striking the ball on the last swing that was shown in this video?

[@kevinrochelle6353]

Really seems like DD moved 4-6 inches farther from the ball, and the backing off and changed club path is from that....the ball position is quite noticeably different

[@Ajaxspank]

The interesting thing to me is that he almost looks as though his head is facing the target as he makes contact with the ball; for certain, he's no longer looking at the ball.

[@Nightwing690]

what did David shoot that day wayne?

[@A-FrameWedge]

Nightwing690 I think he was like 8 under after 12 holes and shot a 61.

[@MrFahnatic]

i thought the exact same thing and i would have to agree with you and i thought that was different lol

[@jbsg01]

The only player to take over world #1 WHILE Tiger was in his prime

[@bjackson81]

Well, him and Vijay.

[@ScratchArkkitehti]

No one wanna give the BIG Fijian Credit.

[@maninblack9850]

Well...the only time any player overtook tiger for #1 was when tiger was going through a major swing change(98' and 04'). He reestablished his dominance pretty quickly once the swing changes took effect, although Duval and Singh did play great golf to overtake Tiger those years.

[@norrispg]

@wdefrancesco well then, be surprised...that's Champions, and not 2001 (the last time they played the Tour Championship there)...they look different due to the camera angle and the fact that he's hitting two completely different shots with two different clubs...personally, I wouldn't judge a person's struggles based on one videotaped golf swing especially since Duval's been pretty candid about what he went through at that time... I'd take him at his word, but that's just me....

[@agfi88]

i use to love his swing man how can you go from being up there with tiger to just a complete nobody :(

[@andrewmalley4717]

Really Respect you and your knowledge Wayne but this analysis is basedon completely different camera angles actually it’s so close it must be similar timelines

[@moreneck1]

It is obvious that the swing in the brown pants is not from 2010. He's playing Titleist for a start. Camera angle is way off with the driver down the line as well. Really like looking at the swings you took of him though Wayne. All the talk of how much better PGA swing is is moot however because I think the other swing is actually older. The Bob Hope iron swing DOES look pretty poor w a lot of separation coming down.

[@andrewmalley4717]

Truth is a unbelievable player like Duval ,with what is a beautiful matching moves home made swing, Is unlikely to change very much . It’s probably more reasonable to assume injuries then confidence is more the culprit for his decline as a player .Just sayin

[@SammySnead]

Duval’s swing was really complicated.

[@Nightwing690]

@jpkircherhcglf a lot, to quote Wayne, "if the camera moves, this analysis is a total waste of time"

[@piffpete420]

Not really a melt down, he started a family his focus moved away from the game and he returned a much more overweight golfer which altered his swing. If he loses weight i see him dominating again.

[@hotroute]

"Where he almost won the tournament." Missed the cut, same thing.

[@Robert-ts2ef]

A Ben Hogan copy swing. 👍

[@wx811]

I basically say that golf swing technique fucked with his natural style, and that's what messed him up. I don't care how "talented" you are, you can't consciously control your swing. He swung better when he swung subconsciously, and with his own style, rather than an unnatural move some idiot teachers taught him. The main reason he failed to continue in his natural brilliance was because of the instruction, not because his swing was wrong. When you try to manipulate the swing manually, not only is it impossible to strike the ball well, but it incurs injury, especially since most of what the PGA Manual says is completely INCORRECT, not only from an anatomical viewpoint but also from a practical point. Chipping is not putting, so don't teach how to chip with a putting stroke, and the muscles in the back don't work like a spring, because muscles don't have the consistency of a rubber band, it's fragile tissue. No wonder David became injured, and failed to improve his game using modern technique. It's not only incorrect, it doesn't allow for natural motor function. Motor function is always subconscious. When you learn to strike a ball, which by the way doesn't come from technique, but natural learning principles, it should always be subconscious. Learning a skill like striking a golf ball requires an understanding of how the human brain functions. Most people start off terribly, but through practicing deeply, and making mistakes through struggle, they eventually learn the skill. It should only take a year to play decent golf, maybe not scratch, but good enough to shoot some satisfying scores. But once you learn the skill, it becomes subconscious. You don't have to think about it anymore. You mentioned that he played well effortlessly in this video. This means he was purely subconscious, and not manipulating. Later, when he changed his swing, he failed to understand that he had already mastered the skill, and began to manipulate and steer, he failed. And trying to do what the PGA Manual tells you where it says to restrict hip turn will certainly cause injury, because the body isn't built like that. In summary, golf swing technique ruined him. I know this because I've studied learning, and how we perform skills. Trust me, i'm well qualified to tell you all this because I learned so many skills, like martial arts, piano (completely self taught), clarinet, guitar, playing card flourishes and magic tricks, writing, and much more, all to very high levels, and none of them, besides a few, have the same skillsets as others. Playing card fans have nothing to do with martial arts, and martial arts has nothing to do with music, and music and writing, and so on. People thought i was talented, but I know better. I know how skills happen, so I'm well qualified to tell you what I've told you. Sorry to take up so much of your time, but you really need to figure out that golf swing technique helps no one. And maybe if you study learning and skill acquisition, you'd never teach swing again.

[@wdefrancesco]

Sounds like you're an expert at a lot of things. How have you done with golf?

[@wx811]

I'm a self taught 6 handicap. I've only played for 6 years, so that seems about right. Of course, some learn quicker, but since I don't practice but maybe once a month and play once every week I don't expect much more. If I had more time to practice and play I'd easily make scratch or better. But what I've said is backed with science, it's not just me. If you want to disagree, that's fine. but know that I'm well qualified to say what I've said.

[@wdefrancesco]

I doubt if David thought much about what he was doing until he experienced an extended period of time with less than adequate results. At that point the idea of relying on the subconscious means just hitting more balls and playing until the game returns to form. But what if that doesn't happen? And yes, injuries always play a role. Players who have been to the top and find themselves unable to maintain their excellence usually try to find ways to get it back. I think you have it backwards when you say that instruction caused his problems. He really didn't get much instruction because he was always good and didn't need it. Instruction is voluntary. Teachers don't force students to take lessons. You may disagree with any particular teacher's methods or beliefs about the golf swing and how to help players who come to them, but I don't see how you can blame instruction for his demise as a top player. It would seem that the instruction he sought didn't help him get out of his prolonged slump, but it didn't cause it in the first place. There is a huge difference between your level of play and that of a top player, a difference you can't even comprehend as a 6 handicap. It would be the same if you were a scratch. You will find that as you go it alone you will get to a point where you cannot advance. At that point you would seek out knowledge that might propel you forward. If "not thinking" doesn't keep making you successful, what do you do after that? A competent teacher will simply analyze, diagnose, and suggest what might be the problem and what might fix it. A doctor is no different. Again, no one is forced to take a lesson. It is entirely up to the player to decide how they go about improving and when they stop and move on to something else.

[@kenlines6866]

If you do not factor injuries into swing technique, you are full of it. David has stated injuries wore him down. I guess every pro golfer that gets sidelined with injuries just needs to draw more lines on the computer screen then they will be good again.

[@kenlines6866]

***** "Meldown" is so vague like the rest of your descriptions ( do not worry; I will send you a free copy of my golf instruction). SHOW US YOUR GAME AND COMMENT IN EXACTING DETAIL ABOUT INJURIES AND THE GOLF SWING). Full of it if you think you have some great advice on David's situation. David said his back gave out. So, he needed to know exactly what to do to play without causing more damage. He , like everyone else, loses some hand-eye coordination with age so the whole move needs to be understood for mid thirties and up stages of his career. I stand by my criticism of you because you he had to make some changes and there is no way he could stay in 1999 form forever. I appreciate your timely response, but these things work best when the instructor demonstrates some different technique and explains how it relates to injuries.

[@gsapp59]

" SHOW US YOUR GAME AND COMMENT" I just Googled Wayne Defrancesco. Here is what I got. members.wayned.com/about/career-history/ Looks like he is a pretty darn good player. He is certainly better than 99.5% of teaching pros.

[@MrLuigiFercotti]

That WD guy is a total hack. LOL

[@A-FrameWedge]

Ken Lines You have no idea of how good a teacher Mr Defrancesco and how good a player he was/is and his teaching is solid IMO and lot of other players who are tour players and other PGA professional teachers think so also. He explains what got Duval off track in his swing which maybe caused by his back but some it, like his club head position at P2 show how anybody back problem or not could get that position right.

[@NocyMusic]

Once you start explaining his golf swing in details and every single move by the second you kill the most simple move that David describes in his own video stop making it too complicated people like you are killing the golf swing