DC Comics WON’T FIX Their Tim Drake Robin Problem

[@ryanclark6602]

He is definitely my favorite Robin. His Red Robin series was good as I recall. But alas, once you turn gay, that’s your entire personality. No hope for him as a character now.

[@sardomarcrowe5723]

@@ryanclark6602 just once I want to take a gay character and flip him back, but NOT change the writing style. So people would complain about these characteristics being immutable and not wanting to read a straight comic devoted to romance. They weren't immutable when he changed the first time, and NOBODY wants to read the romance comic, except YOU and ONLY if he's gay...

[@LigerFan]

I hope for a writer with serious nads to make the Tim we’ve known since Character Assassinator Megan Fitzmartin has written him into a Durlan agent who has been replacing Tim for reasons.

[@GeekpinEnt]

@@ryanclark6602 I think it's the costume I didn't like. Him with his Space Ghost looking mask lol

[@matthewbower2713]

I could see Damien or Jason being gay before Tim. Why don’t they get Tim and gay Superman together. Leave Conner/Kon-El alone though

[@rubenvideo3188]

Blame DC for hiring that SJW Scum

[@billybarnett2846]

Tim Drake was the best Robin. He was a natural detective that would a future Batman with no trauma. Then DC started messing with him. First they killed his mother and then his father.

[@matthewledbetter7818]

Chuck Dixion’s rejected concept of Tim becoming the next Blue Beetle would have been a perfect next step for the character!

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Wow yeah, that actually sounds awesome!

[@matthewledbetter7818]

@ it makes the most sense if you (DC) insists on Damien. Tim’s smart enough to take over, and still be a hero.

[@lordgonzo6611]

I've been saying this for years. He would have been perfect for this role. He could have supplied the other Robins with Kord tech and extended Batmans reach to Hub City

[@GeekpinEnt]

@@matthewledbetter7818 the whole purpose of Damian's existence was for Morrison to kill him but DC brought him back.

[@matthewledbetter7818]

@ That doesn’t surprise me at all. Morrison would kill a child in comics.

[@evilblackkitty]

Tim (after from Superman as Superboy) had the second longest run of any teenage character (183 issue plus annuals and specials) that stayed as teenager (Spider-Man started as a teen and grew up in the stories) Tim Drake was unique and was working up until DC started to take away his uniqueness. He was the Robin with a family and friends that he had to hide his secret from that lead to drama, he had a civilian supporting cast that fleshed him out. But DC killed off his dad and got rid off his friends which took away the things that made him stand out and made him another orphan that Bruce adopted

[@SparrowAaron]

Tim doesn’t need to separate himself from the Bat Family… DC needs to separate Tim Drake from Meghan Fitzmartin’s bean-flick fan-fic.

[@Arizona-ex5yt]

Tim Drake was the Robin during Batman's best period of storytelling-- the late 1980s to the mid-2000s. Everybody claims to like Grayson as Robin but most of his stories are from the 1940s-1970s; you don't regularly read comics from this era, because they're mostly junk. Tim Drake is by far the best Robin. However, they ruined him when they "twinkified" him. It's as simple as that. I'll never forgive DC for vandalizing this character.

[@jbbrolic]

Dick Grayson was Robin during Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams... There are good Dick Grayson Robin comics... I agree though, if you look at sheer volume there's a lot more great comic stories with Tim Drake as Robin (probably ten times as many or something.) Most of the Dick Grayson Robin people like would be things like Long Halloween which are set in a previous continuity.

[@sardomarcrowe5723]

Honestly IMHO Batman's best storytelling was Detective Comics 20c-25c era. They were compelling detective stories, and there was no Robin in those, at least in my collection. Old school Batman fans HATED the introduction of Robin as a teen marketing gimmick that always altered the writing to make Batman parental and felt more geriatric.

[@fm1668]

@@sardomarcrowe5723I agree with you, the best Batman stories have no Robin or very limited. It’s why I tend to like Bronze Age stories more.

[@tayojones9460]

@sardomarcrowe5723 Introducing Robin helped to develop Bruce but I guess you do not want your heroes 2 actually bloody develop as characters and just want them to be stagnat just like the idiots running dc!!!!

[@sardomarcrowe5723]

@tayojones9460 wow uhm YEAH... 'cause THATS TOTALLY what I said.... Way to completely put your own thoughts in somebody's mouth to construct a paper tiger argument. News flash, Bruce Wayne was developed long BEFORE Robin. His introduction was NOT to develop him, but it does, with each introduction of a Robin make him more of a paternal monster because bad writers cannot help themselves from making him a control freak or a dick in contrast to teenagers. This is not development, its contrivance.

[@notyouraverageharleyquinnstan]

DC Comics refuses to fix anything.

[@mohammadbashammakh]

They keep digging more holes for themselves

[@notyouraverageharleyquinnstan]

@@mohammadbashammakh ikr seriously

[@mohammadbashammakh]

@ they are now back doing yet another Bruce Wayne secret brother storyline, again

[@gojira387]

DC comics is dead. Holding out any hope it will change is just camping next to the grave because you are expecting the corpse to resurrect itself.

[@notyouraverageharleyquinnstan]

@@mohammadbashammakh it's getting old already

[@farrisward2211]

Marvel could fix Iceman pretty easy if they had the balls.

[@spinningtornado4543]

Yes but they lost those a while back. They lost their marbles now too.

[@aqdrobert]

Snow balls?

[@spinningtornado4543]

@@aqdrobert Marvel Comics will steal your joke, you know. They're that bankrupt in everything they make.

[@aqdrobert]

@@spinningtornado4543 I prefer online comic writers. They credit me and thank me for supporting them.

[@spinningtornado4543]

@@aqdrobert They're the only professionals left.

[@garywillig5143]

Tim was a huge success for DC because he was DC's version of Peter Parker. He was smart and a superhero, but he balanced that with a normal high school and social life and keeping his superheroics secret from his oblivious parental figure. Unfortunately for DC, they never understood that and decided he needed to have the same traumas as Bruce and Dick, so they killed off his father, killed or wrote out his entire supporting cast, and left him with nothing. This was 20 years ago, and it killed Tim as a character. Tim has never and will never recover from Identity Crisis and becoming just another boring Bat-orphan.

[@gojira387]

I hate to say it, because at the time I thought it was a well-executed story, but I don't think DC as a whole ever recovered from "Identity Crises." That book seems to be the patient zero for when DC started to die, just like how "Civil War" seems have been the point the Marvel Universe died. No character, hero, villain or supporting cast, seems to have been unscathed by those events and both continuities have simply gone further and further downhill into muddled dreck.

[@John-fk2ky]

I slightly disagree in that conceptually you can do a decent number of things with Tim being put through the wringer, and I have read a number of fanfics that have done that quite well. However, that’s not the best idea if you’re going with DC and Marvel’s “no ending” form of publishing. In the fics I read, they came to an end, with changed status quo that often ended certain problems for the characters. Continuing from that point would leave fewer options for storytelling with that character. That actually ties into something about comics that has always confused me and initially kept me out of comics. Actually, to this day I still prefer the various animated shows to the comics for the simple reason that they have a sense of progression. There’s no reboot that resets everything. In the DCAU, for example, I get to watch the same Bruce Wayne go from becoming Batman (shown in flashbacks in Mask of the Phantasm) to working with Dick Grayson and later Tim Drake then training Terry McGinnis as a new Batman. That, to me, is so much more satisfying than a bunch of reboots that shuffle the characters ages around a little bit but especially in Batman fics don’t change things drastically from the reboot point. Dick is still Nightwing. If I want to see him as Robin I have to go read much older stuff or something outside the main books. Same with Tim. Jason never gets a permanent resolution (at least not by the point I gave up and stopped tracking new issues). What’s the point of following their stories if they’re not allowed to go anywhere? Better yet, if you did a series that covered one version, such as (for simplicity’s sake) having the Bruce/Selina, Dick/Barbara, and Tim/Steph relationships all work out and actually show the younger ones as adults, you could later do a version with characters making different decisions and giving the writers different status quos to work with instead of inevitably doing the same things over and over again.

[@Dhampir101980]

@@garywillig5143 exactly this 100 percent!

[@mentvltrillness]

The majority of modern comic book writers need to realize they're the problem.

[@jaylucien669]

Too many narcissists. Other people are always the problem to those types.

[@jarwar263]

Just let Tim, Stephanie, and Cassandra make their own Bat trio put them in college in a completely different part of the country and let them solve crimes while featuring other sidekicks that were around the same time like Bart, Conner, and Cassie. I’d buy that book if there was a good writer on it.

[@brandonscott4808]

I can even see the three of them being in a three-way relationship to, given how close the three have been for years (especially during the event of Convergence in one of its tie-ins).

[@jackhowe6]

Damn, I would like this.

[@xadalau9758]

It is a good Idea, these three are the most neglected Bat family characters that never really became as popular outside of comics or something on their own like Dick, Jason and Barbara. Not to speak DC replaced Tim and Cassandra with Damian now.

[@EvandroACruz]

Cass works better like a solo character.

[@Dethjezter]

I like to believe that Connor and Cassie, along with Tim, were the Teen Trinity, just as Batman has his Trinity and Jason had the Dark Trinity

[@Vader_25]

4:18 was the whole Damian drama worth it for DC? They ruined Talia, Tim Drake, and Ra's Al Ghul. The Batman sales went from 120,000 to 57,000 on average, and all the stereotypes that started with Morrison on Talia. I will do an exposé video on this specific topic.

[@jeromemaida4933]

I would be interested in this.

[@jbbrolic]

I agree Grant Morrison is the foundation for all Batman that came after, and that is a bad bad thing (I do enjoy maybe a third of his run, mostly the end with Batman and Robin and Batman Inc.) Large parts of both his Batman run and X-men run were at the time the worst comics ever written. And I love late 80s and 90s Grant Morrison (JLA, Doom Patrol, Animal Man, Flash etc) but after 2000 he has been mostly awful.

[@waynetech10]

Talia, as a character, has never recovered. That was when I knew Morrison's run wasn't for me. I was a fan of that character, from way back.

[@jeromemaida4933]

@@waynetech10 You are correct. I remember when she was SO interesting... A seductress that made Catwoman and Poison Ivy look like Aunt May by comparison. Her being a mom...just doesn't work.

[@docfortune]

Tim Drake is the second best Robin after Dick Grayson, and I like him in the role as long as Dick Grayson has graduated to Nightwing. If they want to know how to fix him, reboot the universe and ditch all the penis kissing. They'll never do it.

[@omgaidebig4121]

You don't have to wait for them to do it. Fix their mistakes for them

[@alexandershepherd3540]

This thing is Meghan frizmartin absolutely doesn’t know Tim drake and literally didn’t deserve to write him She literally just used him for her own fanon fanfic ideas and ruin everything good about the character As a Tim drake robin fan that read his Chuck Dixon and Red Robin book,He does infact bring something to the table Tim in the Red Robin series was literally the robin that most similar with Batman but isn’t scared person like Bruce Tim is also probably the character who understands/most loyal to Batman the most, and was always there to help him overcome his scars Plus he has insane potential if Dc actually allowed him to progress or grow,I really wish they would continue the Red Robin storyline because that was the best direction fir his character Give him matured detective stories maybe something like deathnote(I always imagined Tim as L)he would be so amazing if he next book is mostly about solving mysteries with action here and there Ship him back with Stephanie brown and have her be his partner,I could throw in Cassandra too Everything must not be Batfam,they should all grown individually I’ll love a college arc that could bring back Tim’s relatability

[@themultiversalmagpie7827]

Dude was my favorite Robin until they ruined him, now he’s just gay Robin so now Dick is my favorite

[@walrusagent]

Tm Drake was fine and had gotten “over” for almost 20 years until Grant Morrison decided to make an Elseworld’s story canon. A decade long series, Young Justice, Teen Titans he was the face of all that shit. Damien and gay, that’s what fucked up his trajectory

[@lanceyoung9955]

I grew up with Tim Drake stories, so take an interest in what's happening with him. He had the advantage of being the only Robin for a long while and it seemed like he had the best relationship with Batman because he wanted to be there and Batman had learnt his lessons on what not to to with Dick and Jason. His problems began when they started bringing in Damian and Jason, he got a bit lost, but I still think his primary difference that he was the most loyal. I'm guessing that wasn't enough, but not sure with what they've done to him lately, it's going to improve the lot of the character.

[@wmwhitedevil]

So the history of male Robins is 1st there was a guy named Dick, 2nd was a guy with the opposite personality of Dick, 3rd is a guy that now loves dick, and 4th is Bruce's kid that was raised to be a dick, got it.

[@markriedel1977]

poor Spoiler, the forgotten Robin

[@wmwhitedevil]

@markriedel1977 not forgotten, just not included, I did say "male" Robins

[@xadalau9758]

This comment is great😂

[@spaceknight793]

I don't know why anyone is reading ANY dc comics anymore... How much abuse can a fanbase absorb and still want to give them money?

[@clab9041]

Damian Wayne was the worst thing to happen to Batman. Thanks Grant Morrison. Tim Drake was the best Robin. Perfect cross between Dick’s positive attitude and Bruce’s detective skills.

[@Vader_25]

Agree. Diddy Morrison.

[@valeriavitale1290]

I like Damian as a character (when he is written properly). I don’t think it’s his fault that DC forgot about Tim and gave him to awful writers such as Megan Fitzmartin

[@EvandroACruz]

Damian creation tarnished Batman mythos forever for me. I despise that character.

[@matthewbecker7389]

Wes, after the first Robin limited series, Tim Drake was wholeheartedly beloved by the comic reading community. True, the Brian Bolland covers helped, but people truly enjoyed this character. And continued to do so.... until he became a stranger. Not that one's sexuality makes one a stranger, unless the person in question has just woken up one day and this is all they bloody talk about.

[@incubustimelord5947]

Tim Drake is the best Robin and he has been ruined forever. Just like Iceman was fine the way he was, but unfortunately he has been damaged beyond repair. Now, Robin and Bobby Drake will always be associated with the same insane group of people who had infiltrated the American comic book industry.

[@mayotango1317]

Stephanie Brown is his true love.

[@PureMaddnessOne]

His "Lois Lane"/"Catwoman"/"MJ"/"Steve Trevor"/"Apollo" basically.

[@AlexKing-p2o]

Honestly not even a reader from back then Recently read all his comics last year to get into his character and his literally my fav robin It a shame none of his adaptations does justice to his character or I would have never liked him His 90s run was way too similar to how imagine Spider-Man stories to be A superhero that has to juggle his personal life with his life as robin aswell as also being Batman light to his darkness Yet he chose this life for himself and embrace it That why I love his character Dc did him really dirty when they pushed him aside to get replaced by Damien After everything he has lost and accomplished for the sake of the mission Then new 52 came and made it worst,giving him a long lasting scar that doesn’t seem to heal no matter what they try Meghan Fritmartin literally killed everything about him and the young justice with that her Robin run and dark crisis Re-retconing a lot in the young justice just to sale her agendas Tim and Steph were literally the best thing about his Robin run they literally get each other and compliment each other in the best ways Like you can’t even give me a valid reason Tim drake would live a girl like Stephanie brown for someone like Bernard that literally a washedup cardboard male version of her No buildup,I can remember never even liked around him because he was annoying and was simping over his step mom And he was much more fun than non he reduced to just an agenda

[@Slitheringpeanut]

We HAD Tim Drake for THIRTY years, Wes. They didn't have a problem with him then. The only time they had one was when Didio brought back Damien, the moment they did that and made Damien the new heir to the Batman, that's when they killed him forever. I think you might be delusional on this one. And I'm a Nightwing fanboy.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Yup that’s right especially when Dan didio was in charge because that man hated legacy characters.

[@James_Klein]

Yeah, he is automatically supporting it by glazing Damian.

[@christophertaylor9100]

Yeah Damien utterly sucks and should never, ever have been created or made into Robin.

[@RamManNo1]

Tim Drake had an ongoing that ran 183 issues plus the 3 minis! I’d say he WAS over. But then they “fixed” him.

[@lacolem1]

Tim was Bruce without the trauma and resources, and a living, loving father. He CHOSE the life, and brought out the best in Batman even more so than Dick. Dick is the most well respected former Robin, but Tim was the best actual Robin. He was Batman’s real partner, not his ward, son, or charity case. That’s why we loved him, and DC ruined it

[@razrentals8897]

I disagree with your assessment of Tim Drake as Robin. He was very popular and important in the comics for a long time. He had the longest running ongoing series out of any Robin (if you don’t count Nightwing as a Robin anymore). Anyone who read Batman until Damien pushed him out probably has a lot of love for the character. I would say Jason Todd’s time as Robin is easier to ignore since they quickly retconned it during the middle of his run. The best Todd stories were Killer Croc killing his parents, the story where he “killed” a woman’s abusive boyfriend and his death. I never cared for the Nocturna stuff that much. That’s only three I can think of. I could go on and on about Tim Drake in Batman comics. I could care less about Damian. Duck Grayson stopped being Robin so early into my life I think I’ve only read 2 issues with him in the role. He’s just lucky that he always gets used in cartoons and movies.

[@EvandroACruz]

I miss Pre-Crisis Jason.

[@ericburke9490]

Tim Drake is my favorite Robin. I liked when he became Red Robin, and he had a bad ass suit. I wish they’d kept Tim in that suit and maybe have him team up with Stephanie in their own series, in another city. Bobby Ewing Fitzmartin’s awful depiction and close the book on that regretful era.

[@jaylucien669]

He's mine too but after what Fitzmartin did to him he's dead. What's there now is just "Tim Drake" in name only.

[@lacolem1]

Completely disagree with Wes about Tim being held back. He was arguably the most popular Robin for 25 years. He was the Wally West for 90s Batman fans like me. He was smart, compassionate, and had the coolest Robin costume ever. DC ruined him prior to New 52 , convoluted his past with that relaunch, and then ruined him by defining him strictly by his sexuality.

[@oscarborjajr1176]

This is how they can fixed Tim Drake. Get rid of theforcing Tim Drake to be gay or bisexual because he was never meant to be that. Get rid of the guy who he was forced to be with ( Have him killed off ot make him a evil villian) . Have Tim Drake get with Stephane Brown again and make a comic series of Tim Drake as red robin and have it be Tim Drake and Stephanie Brown comic book series run where it them growing up, fighting crime and them being a couple. Because forcing Tim Drake being gay destroyed his character because he is now reduce as the gay robin it the same with multiple superman and women . It especially very insulting to anyone who were fans of tim drake and have him become that just to pander a group of people who were never fans of these charactersand just want every characterin media to be part of the alphabet community to be "seen" but these people never care other than taking an established character and forcing them to be that and by getting rid of that part he is back as Tim Drake and is with stephanie. Heck also why not make him as the leader of team titans also. But I especially want a Red Robin and Spoiler comic of these two together.

[@dontemorgan1517]

Tim Drake was one of the best Robin's in Batman history. I grew up with him, and he's personally my favorite. It's sicken me that they ruin his character by turning him into an lgbtq which they were no evidences in his history or was never approved by the creator. This is the same problem they did to Ice Man. They can easily fix this by retcon on this out, but they're too chicken shit to fix this.

[@PrivateCitizen84]

If they gaywashed Tim they need to bleach that out, because you can't bury your gays. Knowing he is invulnerable is boring and he's a literal human not a Superman/Immortal.

[@robertkulb6640]

They should make a team book starring all the Bronze Age characters they’ve ruined: Wally West, Tim Drake, Kyle Rayner, Donna Troy, Ted Kord. But actually pay for a real writer like Chuck Dixon to do it. That way I’d at least be reading one DC book for sure.

[@rocketraccoon1976]

They could fix him by making his boyfriend a secret telepath who forcibly changed Tim to gay. The boyfriend could become one of Tim's reoccurring villains, like Catwoman used to be with Batman, in a love/hate relationship.

[@caedrewan]

Tim Drake was always, to borrow an in-comic line by Chuck Dixon, the "cerebral" Robin. In as much as Dick Grayson started off as a character for little boys to project themselves onto, Tim was like if a fan had really projected themselves into the books. He had more self-awareness of anyone outside of a Deadpool, knowing the purpose of a Robin, and struggling to fit himself into that role. Obviously, I miss Dixon's Batman line of comics.

[@gentlesavage2068]

I feel like one of the reasons they're trying to ruin tim drake is cos they're trying to spite chuck dixon cos they don't like that chuck dixon is open conservative and is one of the most prolific writers whose written tim drake comics.

[@brandonscott4808]

I never liked it when DC made Tim Drake Red Robin because the change felt cheap, unoriginal, and unnecessary. If Grant Morrison hadn't made Damian the new Robin, we would still have Tim as the main Robin until DC decides to either make him the new Batman, retire from crime fighting, or have better code name.

[@Theodorwestermann]

I got the ideal solution! Retcon Damian out of continuity! No more bad writing for Tim Drake, Talia and Alfred would be automatically alive! DC could make us Batman fans the best gift for Christmas with this decision.

[@christophertaylor9100]

DC has done like 17 times too many reboots but... Batman really needs reset

[@michaelkpate]

I hated what Max Allen Collins did to Dick Grayson and Jason Todd. Even more so when he admitted that he never read any of the Titans stories he retconned. Dick chose to stop being Robin, Bruce didn't choose it for him.

[@mray4784]

He should be the Red Robin, not the Gay Robin.

[@eddierascalhaskell4954]

Agreed

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

Something many don't know, but with Damian Wayne becoming Robin they didn't just diss Tim Drake, but also the 'original' Damian. The one from 'Son of the Demon' (1987), where Batman nearly marries Talia al Ghul, she becomes pregnant and makes it look like she lost the baby. She doesn't just trick Batman, but her own father as well and secretly delivers the baby to an orphanage with a Wayne necklace as the only hint about his parentage. I've always wondered if this 'Damian' would ever come up in the comics, but that doesn't look likely any more. So much potential lost.

[@Vader_25]

6:46 Damian and Red Hood are basically Azrael rip offs, but okay.

[@EvandroACruz]

Except that Jean Paul grew up like character and become a more heroic figure.

[@treymykel]

There was nothing holding Tim Drake back DC was very successful with him he was the robin that made Robin a solo character The problem is that the new 52 got in the way and then Grant Morrison introduced Damian Wayne and forced out Tim Drake okay then he transitioned to Red Robin which still made him work then the new 52 came and act like they don't know what to do with him then they let some female in there who don't know anything about the characters and decided to make him gay and thought Yeah this works but the problem is every time the day do Robin in any media entertainment or whatever he's based off of Tim Drake they just used it Grayson because he was the first Robin but the problem is get Grayson didn't become interested and then become his own character until he became Nightwing DC could fix it but they don't want to fix it 30 years this man has been the most prominent Robin character of all time and been a straight character and then they said hey let's make him gay because that makes him interesting Don't nobody want that we want straight Tim Drake Robin being the Robin that we known him to be all these years with Stephanie Brown as his girlfriend and being one of the greatest detectives of all time just go and read his over 150 issue solo run and his Robin Red Robin solo run and you'll see DC never had a problem they just hired the wrong writers

[@jk6919]

I think DC has a perfect spot for Tim Drake, they just won't allow it. Tim would be a great lead for Batman Inc. It would give him his own "place" that leans into his intellect and gets him out of Gotham into a role that would be unique to the character. But, no, the character shouldn't be "Robin" anymore. The character is a grown man and is too old for a sidekick identity. If he's not an adult character, I really don't want to know about his sex life.

[@alexandershepherd3540]

They literally deaged him back to 17 and Damien is like 15 now Prë new 52 he was literally 19-20 while Damien was 12

[@BrianRidgway-u5g]

Thanks again, Wes! Keep up the common sense perspective!

[@Wes_From_TC]

Thanks, Brian!

[@CodyMello92]

If they were to do a palate cleanser and return Tim Drake to the one we all grew up loving, I would age him up a little more. Have him and Stephanie Brown rekindle their relationship and pursue being a cop. To differentiate him from the others, have him become a young father.

[@ChristineP223]

I think Tim Drake would be a more logical heir to the Commissioner Gordon role than Barbara would. He’s more geared to work within the system than she is and has expressed a desire to retire from the hero life. He could go to the police academy, rise up the detective ranks very quickly due to his abilities, and would be a valuable inside-ally to whoever was Batman. He and Stephanie could have a very fun dynamic as married detective partners in the same vein as Nick and Nora Charles or Hart to Hart. Imagine the havoc their kids would wreck on Gothams criminal class.

[@Dhampir101980]

The mistake started when DC killed Tim’s parents in an effort to make him more like Batman, even though Tim said several times in his solo and in Geoff Johns Teen Titans that he didn’t want to be Batman at all. What made Tim unique in the beginning was that he wasn’t driven by the death of a loved one like Richard and Jason. Tim just wanted to help bring Batman back to himself. Tim was DC’s young spider-man equivalent for the longest time. He would probably still be that way today if Damian had never been introduced. Having said that, I do think it’s time for him to move beyond the Robin mantle. Age him up to adulthood ( 22-24) since Tynion’s run ended with him considering applying to college. Give him a regular job and real world responsibilities outside of just wearing the suit. Allow him to develop his own rouges gallery. Let’s hear about the breakup from Stephanie’s point of view and address it in a respectful way. There. Done. Now, you can tell good Tim centered stories again.

[@ComicsForLife2023]

What you say makes no sense. Tim’s parents died much later after he became Robin. His mom killed by the Obeah Man in a very organic story. And years later his dad got killed in the Identity Crisis event. He did not become Robin because his parents got killed.

[@Dhampir101980]

@ I know. That’s my whole point, that he isn’t like Richard or Jason. He became Robin because he realized that Bruce was becoming too violent and loss in darkness after Jason’s death. Tim however, was upbeat, resourceful and wanting to help people right from the start. He didn’t have to suffer a tragedy or hardship to enter Batman’s world and join his mission

[@tayojones9460]

Tim Drake created his own hero ID but "fans" whine that he looked like a rip off of Dr Midnight and thought his name was lame. I never hated the name or costume but I guess I am the minority. Tim is just as unique and inam sick of "fans " putting him down and calling him "boring" just because he was not a conceived through SA!!! Damien is a arrogant pos who should not exist!!!! Jason should be dead and Dick Grayson.... He is ok. It is like no one bothered to read any of the Tim Drake comic books and completely ignored his own development just to justify their "criticism" of the character!!!@@@@ Tim deserves bloody better. Seriously DC has a bloody vendetta against Tim. Killed off his parents, threw his development out the window and gave him a stupid watered down version of his origin during new 52, gave him stupid new names and made him gay! DC has several prominent gay heroes (Renee and Osidian) but for some stupid reason, they changed Tim's sexuality in a pathetic attempt to pander to the gay community! The current regime needs to be bloody fired! They need to be replaced by someone who actually gives a F£^& about the characters and the fans!!!

[@GmanZer0]

It's sad too, because out of all the robins I thought could take up the mantle of Batman, it would be tim drake. He already had great detective skills at a young age when he found out dick grayson and bruce wayne was batman & robin. Brought back batman from a deep depression and gave him hope and a purpose again. I would love to see a run on tim drake being batman, maybe something similar to "superior spiderman". Expect the part where he trades consciousness with a villain and doesn't have as many dumbass dan slott mannerisms.

[@Blackmanta-d5o]

Hey Wes, defend this. "My first few issues are, I think, an attempt to rationalise and reframe this element - from the first pole-dancing appearance of Robin to the fruity relationship between Alfred and Bruce and the weird psychosexual desire of Damian to replace the jealous Tim Drake as the object of daddy's affections. To be honest, I was quite su by how camp it all was and tried hard to broaden the possibilities of beyond that seductive - if reductive - reading.“ ~ Grant Morrison

[@ComicBookMuscle]

Why would he defend that? Lol. Where did you dig that quote from?

[@Blackmanta-d5o]

@ Buzzfeed and TC always talks nonsense when he says "Tom King ruined Batman.“. It was the man hater Diddy Morrison.

[@Wes_From_TC]

Why would I need to defend Grant Morrison? His take on Batman sucks.

[@ddw1272]

Constantine wasn't gay until they brought him into the regular DC universe. Or else he was the worlds worst bisexual who only ever had straight relationships. Just hot chick after hot chick with a female demon in there to break things up sometimes

[@darkknightfan7520]

This whole tim drake situation is just so funny to me. I haven’t read his solo 90s series yet, but what I’ve seen in the old comics I have read he’s an almost spider-man light simple likable dude. Now he was briefly the poster gay boy, you got nothing else to do with him lol.

[@eddierascalhaskell4954]

Nothing to do til Pride Month anyway...😏

[@Reynardnoir]

Let's be real, Tim Drake was the first guy to EARN the Robin mantle with the fans. Sure, Dick had a great run under Wolfman's Titans, but that was him growing into who he'd become and ultimately rejecting that mantle. I read Death in the Family as a kid, and remember how hard it struck me. I'd only read a handful of Todd Robin stories, but I'd liked him, and now he was dead. DC weren't run by idiotic agenda zombies at the time, and realised they needed to put the time in to win over readers with another Robin. Tim's introduction saves Batman's shattered spirit, and it was years before he finally earned Bruce's approval, and his own costume. If you were there for that ride, the same age as Tim, that was a heck of an arc! Two solo series, him beating King Snake and ultimately the Joker solo, and finally his own book...wow. Loved it. And that solo Robin book went for a LONG time (and hit 185 issues, so we know it CAN be done). Unfortunately the arrival of Damien (yuk) and the return of Jason Todd (who SHOULD have died again and stayed dead at the end of UtRedHood), and the retcon of his, ummm, gen1tal interests, have poisoned the well. Seeley had him seemingly ended during his run, far as I'm concerned, the OG Robin never came back. This new one is a skin-suit at best. Vote with your wallets, people!

[@Marneus28]

They wrecked the character. Why should any of us ever care about him again at this point. Just like Iceman he might as well have died because his entire original personality simply vanished, now he's just the gay Robin and that is the entire focus of his character. It's just boring.

[@bsabruzzo]

Pardon me for not knowing this, but Tim Drake's boyfriend is named Bernard Dowd and that got me wondering if he was related to the character Nina Dowd who was the evil villain Mighty Endowed. The reason I ask is if Tim Drake is bi-sexual then it certainly would pose a big conflict to have a boyfriend of somebody who uses sex as her superpower. With that intro out of the way, I just want to say that I don't think it's wrong to give a Robin a section of the city, and I don't think it's wrong to have Tim Drake actually bi-sexual if a person who knows how to write superhero comics can actually write the superhero action and a compelling story. I was a little taken back do you have Tim Drake suddenly be not straight when you did not see him go through that in his life. I don't think real people who are bisexual asexual or gay just suddenly become that. They have to actually have a moment where they see the patterns in their lives and grow and understand these things. Just like a heterosexual has to go through their own life and grow. And we didn't see that with Tim which is why I didn't really like it. But a good writer can still make it work. As we've seen with Grayson though, there are very few good writers out there who want to focus on anybody but Batman or Superman or maybe they don't want to focus on Wonder Woman but you know what I mean.

[@EvandroACruz]

Tim is the best Robin until DC ruin him after the N52 to put Damian like the main Robin. Tim deserves more love and a new solo title again. DC never will be the same again like Pre-Flashpoint Era.

[@jamesroose4340]

Tim Drake was the best Robin, until DC ruined him.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Tim drake is my favorite robin growing up and honestly it’s simple to have Tim drake robin be the character we all know and love, and what that simple really have Tim drake robin go back to Stephanie brown and stop being with this terrible Bernard character nobody likes and boom problem solved everybody wins.

[@Avarn388]

@TenyaSmolka I would love that but I know DC will never allow that. Because as Just Some Guy aptly put, they made Tim Bisexual but they will never have him with Stephanie again. And that is a damn shame. Because they were one of my favorite couples in DC. But I guess we can’t have that.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@Avarn388 why that just sounds dumb to me or lazy in general because in all reality it simple really nothing complicated but that's just my opinion.

[@nightwishfan1991]

Tim Drake was always my favorite of the Robins. Such a shame what they did to him. Once he went gay all his personality got drained out of him and like Iceman before him just became a walking gay stereotype.

[@baki484]

I know people hate this version but Arkham verse and Young justice Tim Drake are my favorite versions since they tarnished the prime earth (comics) version who was my favorite.

[@tonygriego6382]

The only way to save DC is to reset everything to before the New 52. Though I doubt that the editorial department will ever have the stones to do it.

[@SolidGoldCEO]

Why shit on Tim? Tim carried being Robin for decades. He was Robin during Knightfall, he's held his own title for years. He is more established as Robin than Jason ever was, and honestly Damian is the Robin of DC's declining years. Jason 2.0 version lasted two years real time before he was done. Jason and Damian are both two damaged youths that need to be in Batman's world, Tim wanted to do good, he is the most unique Robin. Also for people younger than me, he is the Robin from the Teen Titans cartoon, and for people much younger than me he is the Robin of Teen Titans Go!*Apparently this isn't right*

[@ElChip5]

Exactly!

[@kelpietales4503]

Tim was not the Robin from the Teen Titans 03 cartoon. They never stated it but it was painfully obvious to be Dick. I gave up on TTG but that's just based off of the 03 show so yes he is Dick too.

[@alexandershepherd3540]

@@kelpietales4503they took way too many elements from Tim They also made the voice actor for robin in the 2003 teen titans show voice Tim drake robin in the Lego Batman game Plus the writer that wrote the young justice 1998 was called up to write the show that literally why they ended the young comics then and merged them with teen titans

[@kelpietales4503]

@alexandershepherd3540 most animated Robins are a mix of themselves and others from the comic already like BTAS Dick wore Tim's Robin suit, YJ Dick also had pants and tech knowledge like Tim, and none of the other Titans acted 100% like their comic selves anyway. Also, voice actors are even swapped around to voice different characters all the time. The same show also brought on Marv Wolfman who wrote Dick in NTT and made him Nightwing who this version of Robin eventually becomes. No many how many Tim qualities this Robin has he also has a lot of traits that are only exclusive to Dick. Hell we even see his parents fall from the trapeze in his memories and the tie in comic makes this painfully more obvious.

[@richardlloyd2354]

The amount of character development they made with Tim Drake in Batman RIP to Batman reborn all the way through to Red Robin. Was spectacular. Tim Drake shaped to be the best Robin the natural successor to Batman/ . However the new 52 fucked the character as did anything the new 52 touched, Batgirl Cassandra cain another example. They even tried to push Tim as Batman beyond, then rebirth they killed him to bring him back to then ride into the sunset with Spolier. But now like anything to do with DC and marvel. Is everything has to be gay. Everything has to fit the 0.000001% of the population. As they’ve no creativity behind it; they develop a gay character it’s rejected. So the way around it is make every existing character gay so you’ve got to accept it otherwise you’re a phobe or ist. No self respecting woman would hug the partner of the guy you’ve been fucking and saying this is the bestest day ever. However DC has to create the 1000% acceptance for everything. I’ve stopped buying comics as it’s a joke. Everything masculine. Anything fun. Anything that isn’t for everyone. Then it’s for no one. The creators have said it themselves. They don’t want any of this change, they want to see the industry burn to the ground, so let it. “If you don’t like my politics then don’t buy my book”

[@Kody1_Kenobi]

I think I’m alone on this hill but Tim should have had the spiral story line instead of dick. You plug in Tim in ever scene and it just makes sense. The clue master clues. The detective aspect. All of it. And then I would have liked him to take the midnighter mantle.

[@Wilahelm2]

They would have to do a total overhaul of the character to make him work. He needs a new superhero identity to really make his own. I suggest using the Red X brand. This identity is tied to the Robin's via Dick Grayson using it during the Teen Titan's animated series so its known but hasn't been run into the ground. I know they have one in the comics but he's a recent addition and I doubt it would take much work to have Tim take over the identity. Next have Tim go back to his roots be becoming a sidekick again but this time for Jason Todd/Red Hood. When Tim first teamed up with Batman it was because Bruce was becoming more violent and reckless and Tim realized he needs a partner to keep him balanced and from going over the edge. Jason is very much someone who much more prone to violence and brutal actions. Having him and Tim team up would help add dimensions to both characters. Having his younger 'brother' around would force Jason to start holding back more while Tim would have to learn to be a bit more ruthless in his actions. There is also the fact that while Jason is probably the better fighter Tim is the better detective so they would balance each other out in that respect. As for his relationship, torch it. None of the Bat family have really been able to manage successful long term relationships with civilians due to how dangerous and stressful their superhero lives are, why start now. Have the docks burned by some villain while fighting the Bat Clan and Tim realize a relationship with some guy who has the charisma of a cardboard cut out is not going to work out. He walks away and teams up with Red Hood because Tim feel that his harsher approach may be needed to deal with such threats. If Tim is going to have a relationship then declare that he's Bi and having go back to Stephanie but keep the whole thing low key. Romance in superhero stories are subplots, they should never be the main plot.

[@brianlabelle9543]

There are very few characters who were as over as Tim Drake Robin. They dragged out his introduction for 3 years, and he was getting multiple mini-series’ before his 183 issue run in his own series. How many books last 183 issues? They destroyed everything about him that made him “over”. :s

[@johnnycage112]

If I could buy DC I'd fire everyone, do a company wide reboot, and wait maybe a year before starting again so all this nonsense can be removed.

[@Groudon_official]

I like your videos, but it would be better for next time that you show panels from an issue to prove your point.

[@nobodyknowsforsure]

The idea of Tim being the extremely smart tactical one who is more contingency based made perfect sense. The only real problem is the crappy sh!t they did to him that has turned off fans.

[@lucymiau5700]

When a Comicbook character becomes gay, the individual characteristics get discarded and only a gay caricature remains.

[@danielgerena1263]

I started collecting comics in '91 so Tim Was my Robin.

[@VerneditheSnail]

I insist they must replace Damian with Helena Wayne. She would bring a unique dynamic to the Bat Family, which was already proven to work wonderfully in the Pre-Crisis Earth-Two comics from 1979-1984. Helena Wayne being Batman's only biological child would help Tim receive more focus as THE Robin, and would give Cassandra & Spoiler a new friend to complete their trio. It would also allow Catwoman to finally evolve properly & her relationship with Batman to mature much in the way Superman & Lois did.

[@christianstewart41]

Bro it really wasn't out of no where im I the only person that actually read the early 2000s comics he was literally hitting on kon el superboy all the time in fact i recall fans complaining about there extremely overly friendly relationship theres parts were tim randomly is hugging kon el and holding his hand google is literally free

[@Youngbladexyz]

I mean, Damian's origin isn't even chronologically possible. Ra's Al Ghul wanted Azrael as his heir in Denny O‘Neil‘s Azrael run (the 90s), until he found out about Jean Paul Valley's Gorilla genetics and Talia left the League of Assassins in the end of the 90s to 2006. Very bad takes, and it shows that you aren't critical enough.

[@garycannon4644]

Do you really show up just to talk shit? Lol

[@unodestosdiaz2998]

One of the greatests sins DC has done, has to turn Tim Drake gay, just for the clout and fashion. A fully fleshed character that was heroism before tragedy, and after, was turn into "pat in the back" character for diversity hires. Its sad because you already had representation in the Batman universe, but no, it had to be a Robin. For me, Drake story ended beautifully in the Red Robin series, just before flashpoint, then, the real farewell for the real Drake was in Detective comics when he "dies" defending the bat family.... NOW HEAR ME OUT ON THIS ONE: What if the Tim Drake that returned after the arc of the evil Jor-El, wasnt Tim DRake, an ALL THIS TIME IT HAS BEEN AN IMPOSTOR.... BOOM! Ther you go, DC. I'll send my adress for you to mail me the check.

[@lucaslabute8114]

They should have made Tim the new Question. Then create his own cast villains and supporting characters. I'm getting bored with Renee Montoya anyway.

[@alexandershepherd3540]

I’ll love a story line when the Tim drake we have now is actually an imposter and the real one from Prë new 52 that supposed to be 19-21 and has that awesome Red Robin suit is trapped in time somewhere and he finding a way to get out That way dc can have that gay ass Tim drake and we can get back the one we grew up with They literally took all his personality and reduced him to just the smart robin Because Tim was smart but not tech person type of smart….he was clever And literally thinks outside the box and always one step ahead of his foe No his reduced two a second option after Damien who lives a girl like Stephanie brown???? For a cardboard named Bernard???of all names out there

[@kenlsten4651]

19:28 WTF? Tim had 185 issues as Robin, Wes!! And 26 as Red Robin before flashpoint! Plus multiple mini series and headlining young justice and teen titans for over a decade. WTF are you talking about, Wes? Really need Josh or even Dok for these videos, man.

[@azuresaiyan9005]

Plus saying Iceman is more popular than Tim is very arguable. Within comic Circles Tim has historically been far more popular and notable than Bobby ever was on the X-men even during the height of their popularity. And to the general audience most of them don’t know the identities of the Robins besides Dick maybe, but the moniker of Robin is easily more recognizable than any X-men not named Wolverine and certainly more than Iceman.

[@madrex47]

Jason Todd should have stayed dead

[@verindictus3639]

13:30 Of course they can't have anyone be upset at a gay character for ANY reason. If they are gay, everything about them is wonderful, and everything they do is acceptable.

[@oldmandavid7944]

Chip zdardsky actually wrote time drake well over the last 2 years . I would take Chip off Batman and give him the Robin Tim Drake book . I don’t care if he’s gay , it By , so long as he is giving a good story .

[@brianbordon6419]

Tim Drake's Robin series lasted well over 100 issues. Jason Todd should have stayed dead and Damian never should have happened.

[@seabookfarno8656]

**Already done reading tim drake as a character in his comics by the time he FINALLY BECAME BATMAN BEYOND (Sorry Terry fans, I prefer Tim anyday). I did not like how Bruce timm made him into JJ in that one movie, because the REAL tim is the smartest and outplayed the joker in that christmas comic of his. Never would allowed himself to fall after Jason's death. Batman sees tim as the next in line to be donning the batsuit and someday he will be the world's greatest detective in batman's hush comic. His pre 52 red robin run definitely is his best. Sure the New 52 "changed/reboot" him but it ain't as bad he is in rebirth comics as of now. Again, I prefer his pre/new 52 anyday of the week (yes even the ridiculous RED WINGS of his but i much prefer that design over rebirth. Think of it as a prototype of him becoming batman beyond for a change. Pre/New 52 Tim anyday over REBIRTH

[@fred_flinstone8]

9:33 How were the docks bad?

[@amitypredator9385]

Just realized they like making Drakes gay...

[@rafferdx]

This makes me want to buckle down and’s put pen to paper on my “restore Time Drake” story idea and try a blind pitch to DC. Can’t get any worse than the status quo

[@KingNazaru]

I say the best way to get classic Tim back is to say this current Tim is a failed clone of him. Then we get rid of the clone and bring back classic Tim.

[@AnthonyXworld]

The genie is out the bottle already and to correct this you have to build a storyline for it. First part would be to tear everything down first you get him in a situation where he loses his memory put him in a coma in the hospital then you have a something going on villains kidnapped him and others from the hospital while blowing it up killing the boyfriend at the sametime. Find out months to a year later Batman figures out where the kidnapped victims were to come save them but Tim was not among the people saved. The reason why is that he escaped just before Batman and the Bat family showed up with these other people more importantly with this couple who sees him as their own son and he sees them as his parents. Now with this established you can rebuild his character before reintroduce him back into the Bat family.

[@markcoombs6750]

Tim and Stephanie ha e been together since the mid- to late 90's, around or a little before the time she became Robin. Closer to 20 something years

[@kendershot]

I really liked Tynions take on Tim. That he could do more than Batman with his potential. A great set up that went nowhere.

[@andresanguianozuniga6798]

I'm not a mega fan of Tim Drake, but he should be Red Robin again. If Damian still exists, being Red Robin is being Robin but with his identity. And the whole gay thing (he is mot bi, he is gay) needs to be retconed, he and Stephanie were fine. That was A MISTAKE.

[@josephbrown6906]

My solution to the Tim Drake problem is to make this "Tim Drake" a totally different character. I would have it revealed that he's a relative of the real Tim Drake who looks nearly identical to him. The real Tim Drake has gone deep undercover working a case and asked his relative the new "Tim Drake" to sub for him so the public wouldn't notice that he's gone.

[@ricky865]

If they actually do that, then they need to turn him into Red Robin again and give him that iconic costume.

[@nohero1339]

I had an idea what I'd do with Tim. You can't just kill him because you have zombie Jason walking around. I'd have him get brutally fucked up and have him in a super coma and hooked up to the bat computer give him a virtual construct body or whatever change his codename to Night Watch or something (haven't nailed that down yet but anything but Red Robin) have him take the place of Oracle and be the bat family info hacker member. You keep Jason Red Hood uniqueness. You keep Damian as Robin. And if you don't want Barbara as Batgirl, you can have her be Oracle, but keep her with the Birds of Prey and when she is involved have her and Tim be a good duo team working together doing the techy work

[@paultapner2769]

Him and Steph going off to college together at the end of James Tynion IV's detective run would have been a perfect end point for him as a character. But of course if they'd done that fans would be crying 'waah! we want Tim back!'. He needs to go the Nightwing route and go Red Robinining on his own.

[@gohanson27]

I love Tim just like anyone else, but he is the least interesting, Robin. The birth of Damien was the death of Tim Drake

[@robertfalcone3025]

The fact that in 2024 both Marvel & DC & the MCU are STILL pandering to an audience that does NOT exist is INSANE to me. 99.9% of ALL comic book readers are STRAIGHT men..& even tho the huge majority don't have a problem with LGBTQ characters being introduced..they do have a problem with characters they grew up with SUDDENLY announcing that theye LGBTQ .. I remember in the 80s 90s Alpha Flights Northstar was openly LGBTQ..as well as the Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants Destiny..& no one GAF.. but flash forward 30 years...& suddenly those SAME fans are now HOMOPHOBIC if they're unhappy about the HUGE retcon that made Iceman gay IMO the perfect LGBTQ character of the last 20 years was Wolverine's son Daken..in the early 2010s he was the BEST character in the Dark Avengers... actually in the entire Dark Reign era...but by the late 2010s he was DESTROYED during the Krakoa era...& Now hes what. ..HELLVERINE?!? ..& that's after a couple yeas of him being FANG?! Anyways great video brother.. looking forward to more of your Marvel & DC comics reviews 👑

[@namelesswhocares8648]

I'm still waiting for a comic book where a gay character decides to become straight for a change

[@anonymous_5016]

5:01 I don't understand this new characterization of Batman in comparison to Nightwing. Wasn't it always the case that Bruce primarily fought for justice and not just vengeance or trauma? The dark persona isn't emo. It's always been a tool to deter crime. His parent's death is just the motivation that kept him fighting to save lives.