DCS World SITREP #28: Eagle Dynamics to Drop Single Thread Version of DCS for Multi-threading

[@ivaniuk123]

Any upgrades to VR performance is welcomed by me. VR is so power hungry.

[@UkDave3856]

Third class VR beats first class flat screen everytime 👍

[@ladyhawk7408]

@@UkDave3856 I know right. I got more than enough pc to run dcs. but even on a i7 9700k and 3090ti Vr stutters like crazy even on small missions.

[@UkDave3856]

@@ladyhawk7408 A 3090 is a powerful card, but I upgraded from one to a 4090 because it struggled to drive my Varjo Aero. That being said though, so long as you’re not running the DCS graphics settings too high, it should be at least be smooth. Check out Steve (VR Flight Sim Guy) as he has loads of videos on how to properly set up your Nvidia settings to maximise your VR performance, it’s such a dark art it really is.

[@DaveMcRee]

@@ladyhawk7408 i run a 9th gen i7 with a 20 series gpu and quest2, runs quite well, haven't noticed anything immersion breaking.

[@dienicy]

@@DaveMcRee There are people who haven't experienced a bug while playing Cyberpunk 2077 - perception happens to be deceitful like that...

[@m16mojo]

"The eye can't detect 30fps from 60fps..." Bruh, I can tell when my monitor defaults back to 90 from 140. I can safely say ED is full of it on this one.

[@trevorphilips2090]

I stopped the video right there. To be frank for me anything beyond 60 is very much at diminishing returns (except in VR, there the threshold is much higher), but 30 feels downright choppy.

[@jarentz]

It’s so ridiculous when someone says “your eye can’t detect higher frame rates” That person must have a severe vision disorder 😮 Yes 60fps for most anyone is acceptable but saying the human eye can’t perceive more than this is rubbish. And 30 is downright horrible.

[@jarentz]

This presentation is confusing. ED isn’t “adding” multicore, it’s already in the game. What they’re doing is discontinuing the ST version.

[@aviationrambler]

6:23 Absolutely untrue. It varies person to person but on average it's very easy to tell the difference between 60hz or higher in a side by side comparison. This is especially true for higher end players with faster reaction times, and definitely true for most people once adrenaline enters the body. This also assumes smooth frame pacing as well which for some reason is just never discussed in flight simming despite it being just as, if not more important than frame rate. Really I don't think simulation players understand this stuff... just about at all, despite it typically being the primary topic of discussion. I say that not to be elitist or disparaging, but it's an observation I've had helping many, many people in the hobby. It's very much voodoo (old GPU pun not intended) to a lot of simmers when it shouldn't be. There is plenty of excellent resources when it comes to biology and technology. They're plenty of technical presentations offered by NVidia, AMD, Intel, well known developers from industry leaders like Unreal, Snowflake, and so on that details how this stuff works like multi-threading and asynchronous compute. I don't know if it's because of the decade where flight sim really struggled under Lockheed and Laminar or what the deal is but it's very noticeable.

[@fullyverified7491]

Agree entirely. 144hz is so smooth compared to 60hz. How anyone can still think otherwise in 2024 is insane???

[@AxiamWolfe]

Able to elaborate on this Lockheed and Laminar situation? I presume it’s related to the flight sim dark age of the 2000s, but I was just a kid back then enjoying my time with essentially just iL-2 1946.

[@icslowmo]

I also agree…!!! I’ll pose another question going back to earlier days, why did they make 75hz screens and advertise less eye strain at the time??? But yes put a locked 60hz/60fps screen next to a 120hz/120fps screen and play the same content… guess which one will be noticeable smoother…

[@loneirregular1280]

I personally dont think that DCS really needs higher refresh/frame rates. For a shooter Id say yeah sure I understand but for a sim, FPS are typically less important above a certain treshold.

[@CAL1MBO]

30 fps is unplayable for a dogfight. 60 fps is the minimum acceptable. He got confused with XP12 or MSFS, which are playable even with 20fps.

[@Bungo71]

The version that needs MT the most is the dedicated server. MT for that cannot come soon enough and is long overdue.

[@xxxautopsy99xxx]

Amen

[@michaelscott1199]

And it's so quite on that front, no mention of it being added on any time-line whatsoever

[@ivaniuk123]

An unexpected benefit of them dropping the single threaded version is it frees up resources for the development team. Instead of getting two buggy versions of DCS maybe we can get one optimized version of DCS. Who still uses a PC that's centered around single core anyway?

[@Duckfisher0222]

My buddy his performances drops when playing the MT version to an extend it becomes unplayable.

[@matthiusix]

@@Duckfisher0222 Same here! Regular frame rate dropped by about 30%. Sharp maneuvers and looking around make the game look like a slide show> The game literally freezes for a fraction of second.

[@imellor711]

Great to have you back, I am currently a Quest 2 VR user on an RTX3070 ans7 3700 multi thread COu and looking forward to Multi thread to se if I can increase VR quality. As it's like playing something from the 20000's at 800x 600 18:50 when it 1080p with no AA or smooth edges. A compete differ to £running on the screen, where I run in UHD 2k (1385 x 1440)

[@stevebarnett-f5o]

Good to have you back.

[@wyattdean5192]

Thanks for the update, great video as always!

[@Bulldog0086]

Always love your videos! I have always had the opposite effect with MT version, my settings are pretty much maxed out in ST and when I've tried MT it seems to stutter a lot with the same settings. Guess I finally need to figure out why. Thanks for all the content you bring with your videos. I really enjoy watching.

[@thunderace4588]

Thank you Prickly.

[@ricbish]

Nice update and glad to see you back at it! Great plug for the DCS for disability people. They are a great group and it’s a huge thing for people with extra challenges! I think DCS is a fantastic outlet for people and it’s helped me deal with living with constant back pain. It just helps you focus on something other than the pain and has helped me a lot. So I look forward to seeing DCS help others and watch that group grow!! Anyway, great update!! Have a great coming week…

[@SkyDawg91]

I just want to point out how absolutely wild of a mindset it is to think, "Hey, after we're done occupying this country, it would be a great tourist spot for enduro motorcycle rides!" LMAO.

[@johnselden9257]

Most recent update messed with my VR (quest 2) performance. The fog has bands in it and some of it has angular appearance. Also, I think my overall performance has decreased. Very….VERY annoying. Because I have it all balanced as best as possible and it’s delicate. So….I’m not happy with ED right now. I’m hoping this new update will correct these issues. PS: Why would I be excited about an Iraq map when they have 20% of Afghanistan finished? Wtf are these people doing?!

[@vampolascott36]

My understanding is that ED aren't improving multi-threading in the MT version, they just aren't supporting the single-threaded version of the game any longer. Since multi-core PC processing has been around for at least a quarter of a century, saying goodbye to the single-threaded version should have happened a long time ago.

[@takeoffwithjakesoft]

Anyone who didn't watch to the end missed out on some great eye candy.

[@nemisis_wolf]

Anyone expecting anything but minor performance uplift from the addition of Vulcan API in DCS is going to be severely disappointed. Vulcan API integration in itself doesn't improve performance at all. It is only the key to allow the use of multiprocessing abilities that will help performance. ED already have a fully working Vulcan API version of DCS and have had this for a while but it does not run DCS any better than Direct X 11 or 12. It simply opens the door to this possibility of using Multithreaded and multicore processing. IT's more likely that ED will slowly add additional Multiprocessing capability and performance piece by piece and we will see a gradual improvement overtime not some magical Vulcan is herer yippee we all have 200 FPS now improvement, Honestly we might get 10 FPS each time they add a few improvements to the core engines use of multicore CPU's

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

I'll take 10 frames, but, yes, good explanation.

[@kevinwinters4803]

It should also pave the way for supporting Linux - which would be nice after hearing Win11 with AMD runs games inconsistently at best

[@pethell448]

In VR 10fps are a lot. I will take it greatful. XD ST to MT was already a big jump. Half-Life Alyx already showed me how more efficient a PC can work with vulkan vs dx. The PC is much more calm.

[@simtaylor61]

Not necessarily looking for a quantum leap in SPEED, as I average 72 fps on the deck in VR. But SMOOTHER and more EFFICIENT (the occasional dips in FPS) going away would be nice

[@a5cent]

🙄 Maybe, just maybe... it's not primarily about GPU performance? How about portability (DirectX is not)? How about developer performance? The inability of consumers to understand anything that doesn't directly affect FPS is saddening.

[@rudlzavedno7279]

Locked 60 fps is a bare minimun for VR enjoyment imho. Still I can clearly see the difference between 60 and 90fps when kissing grass in jets. It gives me a feeling of speed 60 just doesn't.

[@ashlittle4545]

VR user- I was using multi core and game was awful in the F4 (amazing plane) and stuttering all over the place. Tried single core and it was instantly smooth again. This news scares me massively 😢

[@SuperYooper11]

I have the exact opposite issue. DCS is so weird that way. Talk about results may vary!

[@UkDave3856]

It sounds to me that you need to look carefully at your GPU settings (either Nvidia or the AMD version) as MT should be helping you greatly. I recommend VR Flight Sim Guy’s channel for general PC VR optimisation, as he’s really got his head around it, and I just copy his settings for the best effect.

[@BeefSupremeAviation]

OP, try using Process Lasso and disable one random core to see if that clears up your VR issue. I’ve read elsewhere that MT can not run well in VR with some setups, and this seemed to be the initial bandaid

[@ashlittle4545]

@@BeefSupremeAviation Appreciate the tip. I’ll definitely give that a go.

[@BeefSupremeAviation]

@@ashlittle4545 no guarantee it’ll work, but it has a free trial so there’s no risk in trying

[@SkateZillaSimulations]

MT Has already been in DCS for a Year +, The Change to make MT the default happened Months ago, ST was retained as a bug check/fail safe/ safe mode option, however with everything added after MT was introduced, running ST would mean anything coded to work with MT would not work, MT is stable enough now, to where ED can remove ST completely.

[@d9720267]

Wow, it's only taken 15 years!

[@Wardog-BRA]

What the community expects: dynamic campaigns, better AI, ATC with better interactivity... What ED delivers: single thread version for multithreaded DCS. thats sucks!

[@Duckfisher0222]

Then I hope there is a possibility to rollback the version of the server and the client. Because people are complaining about the performance drops using MT

[@DaveMcRee]

moving to a single binary is a good idea. focus development towards one version.

[@thelmaviaduct]

Could this be a clue about Dynamic Campaign being close or just wishful thinking? I assume ST would take a huge fps hit and MT is essential to it working, so it's not even worth carrying on with ST???

[@dienicy]

Two weeks (on a geological scale)

[@British_Dragon-4K-Simulations]

I hope they fix the multi-thread bugs like the camera not working in the F-14 before getting rid of single thread. I have this issue in VR. Reloading seems to be the only way to fix the screen.

[@lemonemmi]

Eye can't tell the difference? In 30 fps you are in a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage to an equally skilled pilot with 180 fps. Eye can tell the difference. Just wiggle your mouse on your desktop with 30, 60, 144 and 240 Hz and you can tell which is which 100% of the time.

[@Rikus1978]

See to believe...

[@markfowler9692]

Looking for the Dedicated Server version of MT... But anything is better than nothing... Ahem - Razbam.....

[@Smokeyr67]

Just going to be a bit pedantic for a second, but youdont "win" a decoration, you earn it.

[@zorbakaput8537]

Correct especially when a high percentage of VC given are posthumous.

[@scrag0416]

I had a problem the latest update trying to use single thread. I went to multi thread which fixed (using three screens, maps, mirrors). I am running a decent system with a RTX4090 video card.

[@m16mojo]

"Decent" you say... Oh ya, I'm running a 4090, no big deal, it's decent. lol

[@JSRJS]

I'm confused...ED released a multi-threaded version a long time ago......how is this new release different???

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

The early introduction of MT doesn't include all of the tweaks and improvements the team plans.

[@JSRJS]

@@Pricklyhedgehog72 Ah so it's basically a re-release of the multi-threaded version they relesased before (that you had to manually launch to use) AND they made some tweaks and made it the default so you don't have to launch it manually correct?

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

@@JSRJS ummm, I wouldn't call it a re-release, you just won't have to select the MT version like you do now. Based on the newsletter work has been done on this MT version which they said a while back was WiP as they unlocked more threading options in conjunction with better GPU utilization.

[@henryharvey6609]

I have DCS with a few aircraft andvthe F-14 and F-4, and have yet to use them in their fighting manners. Too much to learn. I hope my Gen 7 and 3050 graphics will still work!!!

[@orleansjunky4074]

the eye frame rate thing has been busted along time ago

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

@orleansjunky4074 so I'm realizing, so I stand corrected on that "myth" I'm advised.

[@nigelmorris4769]

Did not know there was help for the disabled. I have dcs and the free A29 super tucano. And thought the SIM was too hard for me as I have limited use of my legs and right arm.. can u post the link for the disabled discord would help me alot

[@matthiusix]

MT gives about 30% less performance on my PC, than plain old single threaded version. I'm not running a top of the line CPU (it's an i5 bought a few years ago), but it's not an ancient hardware, either. If the ST version is killed, I won't upgrade the PC just to play a single game. Spending 1000$ on hardware for a 100$ game? Nah, I'll pass.

[@generalgrevous2458]

I'm surprised this day and age that you believe gamers can't see more than 60 fps. Perhaps this 4 year old video will help with your misconception: Does High FPS make you a better gamer? Ft. Shroud - FINAL ANSWER (youtube/LinusTechTips).

[@_K22]

It’s worse than that, he said humans can’t tell the difference above 30 FPS which is just downright retarded.

[@humble_simracer]

MT doesn't work for me, the game freezes.

[@Lochaby]

Bro dont say we can't see higher FPS. It isnt true.

[@Stahlwollvieh]

Please stop propagating the myth that the human eye cannot detect more than 30 FPS/Hz. This is blatantly untrue and probably simply stems from the fact that this is about the range where chains of images start to be processed as a (reasonably) smooth video. After having played on a 144 Hz monitor for years now I can with absolute confidence say that, after initially getting used to it, frame drops below 100 FPS are somewhat unpleasent, and even such a minor difference as between 120 Hz and 144 Hz screens is absolutely noticeable to someone who is used to these refresh rates (which does not imply that someone who is not used to them won't benefit from increases past 30 or 60 Hz). What's more, this is not just a question of graphical elitism, it absolutely impacts your ability to precisely process the visual information your eyes are receiving (since you're simply getting less of it - try catching a ball thrown at you in a dark room with a strobe light on and you'll understand) and making predictions based on that. Now, if you're playing a civilian flight simulator with large aircraft and slow, gentle turns and rolls this likely has a pretty minor impact, but if we are talking about aerial gunnery, fast changes in direction or probably even something like formation flying/AAR your frame rate will *massively* impact how well you, as a human, perform and how accurately you can move and shoot. Simple shooter games (say, CS) make this very easily observable, but it equally applies to something like DCS. If I remember correctly estimates of what the maximum beneficial Hz/frame rate would be for the human eye range up to ~1000 Hz - although admittedly with rapidly diminishing returns after somewhere in the (probably) 100-200 Hz range.

[@kurt120032002]

1st, cut the crap with the "your ayes can see only 30 fps" That was to coping of console paesants in Xbox 360 era. Evveryone is way over that. 2nd. DCS entire color scheme is way too saturated. Falcon BMS colors are better. This is not overwatch , it is a military simulation, and military simulation is not a clown show to have saturated colors. 3rd. Our top computers are nowhere nier to really run dcs, and clearly not in VR. When you can get 8k. (just to include the ultra wide monitors) at MINIMUM 120 fps while fuggiong the ground at top speed while all AAA gets trigger happy, then we can say hardware can run DCS. 4th.If I am not mistaking they only implemented 4 cores a the moment as in the first attempt, but let's be realistic, to run this monster of a platform, we need 12-16 minimum, idealy 32 cores support.

[@louhodo5761]

I juat want ED to finish the features on the Mi-24. And updating the HIP and Huey.

[@croma81]

No one cares about spotting? Losing spotting planes away from half mile away isnt realistic imo.

[@nero995]

any news about ED dropping that money wire to RB :c

[@ImperatorTheodosius]

RB doesn't deserve any money until they get their contract violations sorted.

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

If that was revealed, it'd be covered. Even if it's resolved, I doubt very much we'll know much.

[@ligmasack9038]

Scambam should learn about meeting their Contractual obligations before demanding Money; as they pulled this same crap with the HAWX DLC.

[@nero995]

@@ligmasack9038 gosh …

[@nero995]

The controversy surrounding the Hawk T.1A module began when VEAO Simulations released a subpar product for DCS and abruptly stopped providing updates shortly after launch. This was due to VEAO withdrawing from DCS and discontinuing support for the module entirely. In contrast, RAZBAM’s situation is more complex, involving an ongoing dispute with ED over unpaid amounts, reportedly since the release of the F-15E. These disputes are tied to allegations of intellectual property (IP) breaches, which remain questionable. ED has offered little explanation, and RAZBAM’s 3D artist has denied the claims, suggesting that if ED’s accusations hold any truth, they likely stem from an overly cautious approach to RAZBAM’s Super Tucano module development. As a result, RAZBAM has paused all aircraft development until the issue is resolved, though they have expressed their intent to return to DCS once an agreement is reached. It’s not surprising that some, unwilling to conduct proper research or apply logical reasoning, would wholeheartedly assume that RAZBAM is entirely at fault. However, the evidence that has emerged has consistently supported RAZBAM’s original statements and significantly undermined ED’s credibility in this matter

[@BryanSears-n1o]

Jackson Susan Davis Sandra Thompson Larry

[@N172GB]

Will DCS f

[@dienicy]

It will f

[@Nero-Caesar]

The reason I don't use DCS is because they don't support those who don't use or want to use track IR or VR. In the sense that I can't look around the cockpit with my mouse and click buttons at the same time. The closest to that is activating mouse look deactivating it when looking at the button of choice then clicking it then repeating the steps. Every other flight sim I'm aware of and have used allows you to look around and click buttons. I'm not saying it's the best control scheme for DCS but having the option would allow for those who don't have or want to use track IR or VR. I have a basic flight stick so I can't map all the buttons needed so it'd be nice if I could mouse look to the button I need and just click it. I've raised my grievance with Eagle Dynamics but they essentially told me to kick rocks.

[@ligmasack9038]

says the guy that apparently hasn't learned how to program their Camera Controls...

[@Nero-Caesar]

@ligmasack9038 maybe somethings changed since I last used the sim or maybe I didn't explain myself correctly

[@Kdschaak]

You could use a hat switch to look around the cockpit. That is how we did it before head tracking was introduced. You are going to have to free up a 4 way hat switch though.

[@Nero-Caesar]

@Kdschaak I'm aware there are a few work arounds but for me they're just not cutting it

[@takeoffwithjakesoft]

You can use the number pad on your keyboard to look around. The 5 key centers your view. It's a default binding. Go ahead and try it next time you fly.