Dear Rudy: A store DESTROYED my magic cards

[@BraniusBalki]

Unless they kept the real cards, and sent back cut fake cards...

[@GM-rs2fv]

BraniusBalki big brain move on their part if so.

[@salrusso8768]

@@GM-rs2fv I'd go back to the card shop to see if they were dumb enough to put the real ones in the display case...

[@Postmann88]

BraniusBalki this is what I would be afraid of.

[@hEXordo]

He shouldve sent them to psa or beckett

[@KidGlo]

Benalish the lotus is from a completely different person..

[@Toshiro4619]

Moral of the story: Don't send thousands of dollars worth of cards to people you don't know through the mail

[@ChakatNightspark]

Never heard of such law where they were required to cut up the cards. I suggest for that person to get into Contact with a lawyer at least.

[@DanknDerpyGamer]

(to my knowledge, at least) there is no law, the shop was full of shit, and this guy should lawyer up if able.

[@levant5378]

That law pertains to counterfeit currency, not commodities. They destroyed his property, and while that property was worthless, they still had no right to destroy it. The best he could do would be to sue for sentimental value or bring criminal charges against them.

[@christianbarnay2499]

In my country, only police forces are allowed to destroy counterfeit goods. If you spot a fake, you must report it to the police. They will get hold of the evidence, verify them and interrogate the owner to find out if he was aware of the counterfeit or a victim himself. Then prosecute. And destroy the evidence after the case is closed.

[@RedsHitpostMedia]

Here it is U.S trading card penal code 3.696969 all fake mtg cards must be destroyed on sight whether in a store,game,or when in a pack, to not disturb the nerd economy

[@williamwatson9781]

​@@RedsHitpostMedia Thats not even a real thing first off, secondly penal codes are state issued, not federal as they go by a different name, thirdly state penal codes that refer to cards refer to ones that store electronic money such as gift or credit cards, not game cards.

[@Vixikats]

Speaking as someone who is NOT a lawyer or legal expert, even if the cards were counterfeit, the owner sent them to the store in order to perform an evaluation on their authenticity. They did not belong to the store, so the store had zero rights to alter or destroy the cards. It's not a crime to get counterfeit cards evaluated and the fact that he was getting them evaluated for authenticity is proof that the owner probably had no intention of selling counterfeit cards. As powerless as it might make stores feel when dealing with obvious scammers, the reality is that destroying fake cards that don't belong to you is still destruction of property. Only if the individual makes an attempt to sell counterfeit cards do they actually break the law by committing attempted fraud. This is very different from Rudy getting fan mail and cards, because there's no service contract there. There's no expectation of fulfilling some service of signing cards or whatever. It's just something nice. In this instance, I would assume that since there's a clear service contract between the owner and store on evaluating the cards, the store destroying them is extremely shady business practice that's very likely illegal. The likelihood that the store did in fact pocket real cards and send back destroyed fakes is worrisome because the likelihood that another store would randomly do a minimal evaluation on cards and pass fakes and offer a large sum of money is basically zero. Most stores I would assume have some pipeline or dedicated procedures for evaluating card authenticity well before making an offer. I'm not saying misidentification of counterfeits isn't possible, but if several stores made these offers, then that's several pairs of eyes who have independently evaluated the authenticity of those cards, there's probably enough opinions there to safely assume that the cards are indeed real. Now, when going to a different store asking for authenticity and they claim that they're fake, then we have a problem. Someone here is wrong and it would be very smart to get a second opinion, at this point probably from an actual card grader, before making and irrational decisions like destroying the cards. The fact that this store claimed the cards were fake after several other stores validated the authenticity are one thing, but immediately moving to shove everything under the rug and destroy the cards so the owner can never get a second opinion is beyond horrifying. And only after much fighting with the store did he finally get the destroyed fakes back, but as Rudy points out, these were obvious fakes. These weren't good enough to fool probably a dozen store owners at once. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. But it's extremely improbable that such bad fakes would fool experienced card store owners. If this guy's story is true, and this entire argument relies on him actually telling the truth, then I would bet a large sum of money that this last store took the cards and sent back destroyed fakes in order to pocket a huge profit. I have no idea what kind of legal recourse the owner can take in this situation, but given the fact that he potentially lost tens of thousands of dollars to a store scamming him by sending him back destroyed fakes, I would definitely be looking for something. So many facts don't add up and it all revolves around the store's "quick let's destroy it and say there's nothing we can do" attitude is so far beyond suspicious that it's probably criminal.

[@vats386]

In all honesty if they wanted to take legal action if they took the cards to any previously store (bonus points for multiple stores) they likely could take back the returned cut ones to those stores and ask them "can you confirm if these were the same cards you saw before or if you cant can you tell me if you would pass these as real?" If they are a store worth there salt and the cards are as fake as Rudy said it's likely the store would say "no, if you walked in with these cards I would have denied you right out". If they then take that in writting that should be enough to get a court case moving, this is potentially 12k worth of thief all they really have to do is prove that and I'm sure they would have enough for a case

[@SHMITTYPOWER]

To my knowledge (as someone who has had to deal with fake goods before) legally the only thing you can destroy when presented with something by one party to another is money, because trying to pass off counterfeit money is a federal crime and legally you have to hold it and report it to the police to have it destroyed. Card, Comics, and Artwork is not legal tender in any country and is not legally able to be destroyed by a party to take them out of circulation as they are private property of one party and the only instance I know of that you could destroy these items without consent of the owner is if you state that you will destroy fakes if sent in for authenticity basically a policy of a private company (but i don't know any place that does this) or if they attempt to pass them off as real with intent to sell them to you and not a third party (even this is a little odd as most people just wont buy it from you and tell you to leave). In all honesty I would consult a legal expert, and if this place suddenly starts selling Recalls and Walks you can send someone to prison for grand theft.

[@JarodMoonchild1975]

@@vats386 @Vats 3 *Theft, thief is the person doing the stealing.

[@christianbarnay2499]

@@SHMITTYPOWER You are not allowed to destroy counterfeit money either. The correct course of action is to report it to the bank or police so they can analyze it and try to trace back its origin and/or link it to other legal cases. Destroying it is destroying evidence in a legal case.

[@Segphalt]

@@SHMITTYPOWER The thing is even in the case of money you are requited to hold it and report it. Not destroy it it's never legal to destroy property that isn't yours.

[@implode3]

My concern is the store sent him back different cards that were fake...pocketed the real ones. How do you prove the returned cards are the same ones?

[@themonkeyhand]

A camera and a bit of foresight.

[@Tosmasta00]

Fingerprints on card.

[@christianbarnay2499]

The person says several other stores made offers to buy these cards. So they should at least have emails or letters from those stores saying how much they were ready to pay for them. That could be enough evidence to file a lawsuit against the destroyer for swapping the cards. Of course having high res photos of the good cards before they were sent to the store would be a bonus to confirm the swap.

[@prollyjusyellin]

Oh snap...

[@kiowaharrell]

@@christianbarnay2499 he says that he talked to other LGSs but for all we know he didn't also unless Rudy didn't read it in the letter they guy never says anything about them being different I can't just believe he had NM cards and that match what these cards look like

[@breakingaustin]

*Plot Twist* The Lotus kid is trying to make realistic fakes and just sent it to Rudy to be appraised :D

[@andrewr135791]

As far fetched as it is, a crumpled paper from a kid that world builds a scene of playing a school cop who got mad at a child for no reason over a game they shouldnt have ever been playing that sends him on this journey to discover that a card he found on the ground thats worth a lot just seems even more far fetched. I think youre 100% right.

[@owlsayssouth]

nah, it's just a card Rudy made, and faked up to see what it would look like and be part of a fun video.

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

I’ve had both fake GOLD and fake cards evaluated several dozen times. I sent them in for that exact reason, I needed to know if the items I was working with was authentic. I have NEVER EVER HAD ANY OF MY MERCHANDISE REFUSED TO BE RETURNED FOR ANY REASON. Even before I developed good working relations several shops. Every single item was returned to me to do with as I saw fit. If that store had sent me back $12000 in fake destroyed cards that I was very positive were real, simply put I would kill them, slow.

[@luckydapirate]

fuck yeah. people are too comfortable fucking others over and not getting their ass kicked in real life.

[@josephs.4813]

“Found on the ground” Little does Rudy know this guy was testing his fake worn cards to see if Rudy would think it’s real.

[@damiennewman1992]

The twist is it's the police officer who sent it!

[@furydeath]

he just wanted to see the tool

[@NolalanD]

@@damiennewman1992 the twist is its Richard Garfield disguised as a cop

[@humphrex]

the twist is rudy read it like he was illiterate

[@joex222]

The card is real, he tried to make it look fake. Rudy was fooled.

[@christophfischer2773]

So I'm not in this scene, but how does it sound like a good idea to *send expensive items, of over $10k in value, via mail to someone, who specialises in selling said items?*

[@techno_tuna]

It doesn't. They should have taken the cards to get graded, or just sold locally. At the very least, he could have taken detailed photos of the cards before mailing them. This is how you get hosed.

[@Me2893me]

This. I feel bad for him regardless of whether they were fakes or got switched for fakes but sending property potentially worth thousands to an unknown entity is a foolish move also that shouldn't be ignored.

[@woodsjon2812]

yeah its a massive failure of common sense

[@emperortbw402]

If I were cynical, I would fear that they might sell my real deal cards and replace them with fakes that they cut in half claiming it was what I sent in originally, I'm not saying that they did, or that it is likely anyone would, but the moral hazard is there.

[@Zeigren]

@ Thanks Jesus!

[@dantediss1]

Issue with those cut cards is that the cards he sent could have been 100% legit. The place could have just said what they said and just cut and returned the fake cards..keeping the REAL ones. Since he is not there while the process takes place it is fishy as eff

[@northerncrozz8449]

Id have never sent them off. I would have only gotten them appraised in person..if u think u got 6k..u dont send 6k in cash through the mail for a reason

[@JosePineda-jn8jk]

@@northerncrozz8449I guess that also depends on where they live though.

[@JanusXX]

I remember when I was a kid a long time ago. I played with counterfeit decks with my friends. We all knew they were conterfeit, but it did not make it less fun. We were pretty broke and legit magic cards did cost a fortune in Brazil back then.

[@Rabiiid]

i can imagine. In mexico a booster pack of $5 for pokemon is $100mxn which is waaaay to much for a kid to buy multiple and collect.

[@armacham]

The idea that you have to pay full price to ride the MTG train is a psyop. People who "enforce" the rules on other players are suckers.

[@trill1987]

We use to also do this as kids "proxies" we all knew most of the expensive ones where proxied by our friends but you get to play the same game without paying a fortune which not everyone growing up had the pleasure of doing.

[@luckydapirate]

pirate everything. why should a small piece of cardboard with a picture on it be worth thousands? i can get a small piece of cardboard that has the same picture and does the same thing for less than 1$ and have just as much fun. all the crying about stores blah blah i dont care a piece of cardboard shouldnt gatekeep me from having fun with the game. so ill just find a copy that looks like the exacty same thing and does the exact same thing and illl have fun while "collectors" seethe and try to cut my cards in half wich will result in an almost to de*th beating.

[@GM-rs2fv]

I found a taco on the ground outside Taco Bell. Is it an authentic 1980’s taco from Mexico?

[@Zidern]

Five second rule!

[@Magistarorian]

i got a taco bell ad right as i was reading this

[@lambchop518]

not if it's rubbed on the ground, it needs authentic fingernail imprints

[@somedrunkdude5728]

No. Somebody wiped their butt with a warm flour tortilla and discarded it.

[@peterkatulin8399]

@@Zidern 1980 was more than 5 secods ago i think :D

[@Case2_0]

My LGS told a guy all his cards are fake based on a light test and then showed him a real one… and it did the same thing. Then they pulled out another card from the same set… and it did the same thing. On the third card it actually did what they said and tried to act like the first two didn’t happen. They then tried to cut them in half but stopped when he threatened to call the cops for property destruction. There were like 6 real duel lands, and a few cards from the older sets like legends and Revised/beta. The biggest problem is that that store doesn’t have any singles competition in my city of over 2 million people.

[@jaskiniamestwa]

"Is my Black Lotus real?" *sees the card: "It doesn't matter at this point.."

[@ManaDrain315]

It does matter, a real black bordered lotus in damaged condition could probably still fetch a few thousand. That badly damaged would be much less, but probably not 0.

[@GM-rs2fv]

Bill Smith I think OP was making a joke but honestly even if it was real what would it be worth? Like maybe $100? I don’t think a lot of reserved list collectors focus on PSA 0.5 type cards

[@autumnalgloom5360]

@@GM-rs2fv I assume it would be worth way more. For some folks all that counts is, if it is tournament legal.

[@GM-rs2fv]

Autumnal Gloom if someone would save up all their money to spend on a single garbage black lotus (for hundreds or thousands) to try and get tournament props then...we got a Timmy

[@rakiest]

@@autumnalgloom5360 that's people that play vs collectors

[@leeh6317]

But were they the same cards they sent in? What if they kept the real ones and sent back the cut up counterfeits

[@kigirudrewko4767]

This. Also simple "COUNTERFEIT" with permament market across the card would still make them unsellable, but also still playable in some casual enviroments. Tearing them was absolutely unnecessary form of being a huge jerk and personaly i think that people from that shop should be ashamed of it.

[@Altorin]

@@kigirudrewko4767 any casual environment that would let you play a fake ancestral recsll with COUNTERFEIT scrawled across it is going to let you play an Island with ANCESTRAL RECALL scrawled across it

[@fabianha8463]

@@kigirudrewko4767 it's pretty easy to remove permanent marker from cards. Any mild alcohol would do. You should use a ball pen or something that leaves a permanent imprint on the card.

[@Altorin]

@@fabianha8463 or just cut the card in half Then tape it back together if you really want to use a proxy ancestral recall for some reason

[@Chrisisthefattest]

@digital1911 are you saying that you sent a fake watch? I'm confused...

[@conflictmagazine]

So this is how stores are able to get their money back when they buy fakes...when real cards show up destroy the fakes and mail them out and keep the real cards. Point: NEVER send cards out in the mail. Sell your cards for cash only locally...got it.

[@randywissler9923]

I was just getting ready to comment the same thing. Cuz you know there's some shady places out there that do that! Especially when your talking that kind of money.

[@conflictmagazine]

Yeah, I've learned one thing when it comes to money: trust nothing and never let your product leave your sight.

[@Sluppie]

@@conflictmagazine Especially not when it's $2k per card.

[@RamzaBeoulves]

For that to be the case a guy would need to send 12k worth of cards through the mail without any documentation and the store would need those exact fakes on hand with the same wear and be willing to gamble their store and reputation as well as face legal trouble. It's 100x times as likely that the kid sending the letter is just super ignorant or made sh*t up. Probably both.

[@KitNeedsCoffee]

@@RamzaBeoulves There is documentation (they emailed him back about the cards, it just wasn't asked for but can be pulled up), the store doesn't need them on hand- no store would do this sort of thing if they weren't 100% sure of what they were doing so assuming it is real which I am not saying it is then they would most likely have their own method of making really good fakes, but also easy to tell they are fakes, as for reputation... nothing gets affected. There isn't enough evidence to prove they did it even if they did. Plus, it may not even be the company but just the person who received those cards banking them for themselves. The bottom line is whether this was real or not, without the ability to keep your eye on an item or prove it's legitamate after you send it off in mail, someone being able to do this without being caught is too easy. If anything, this is a moral story on how to not get cheated out of because we as people who weren't there to see everything happen, can't tell if the story is legit or bs- so we assume both. If it's fake, then whatever screw that guy. If it's real, a guy going through a hard time divorce etc got cheated out of thousands by someone who won't ever be caught & when he sent in his story to someone he hoped would understand, instead he got told the company did no wrong as far as he knows & that the guys sending stuff in was unwitedly going to commit fraud & ruin the lives of others by possible bankruptcy & that it's good they caught the fake ones without once even considering his story. Everyone assumes people are constantly trying to cheat & get money out of a company that is held to such a high standard... but companies are also made out of people just the same as those sending stuff in.

[@Tentacl]

Sue them. Simple as that. They don't have the right even if they are not original. Your property.

[@goreobsessed2308]

Exactly

[@aria8928]

No but they do have the $$$$ and if the case went anywhere wotc would back destroying fakes and you'd be a medium sized home in legal debt...

[@Tentacl]

@@aria8928 wotc and this store both are not the government and have no right to destroy people's property. Magic is not currency either and they would have to activate legal agencies with police powers to seize and destroy counterfeit merchandise - and cards in the secondary market are bot even WoTC business to begin with.

[@aria8928]

@@Tentacl ok... but wotc has more $$$ and will just keep court proceedings going till your average person is bled dry. If you have a spare million to take them on go ahead.

[@Tentacl]

@@aria8928 but WOTC is NOT a part. An abusive store owner with god - or worst, police - complex is.

[@meikvincenco1584]

In Germany counterfeits must be destroyed by government entities but a privat company would not be allowed to do so on its own. They would have to file a complaint with customs which then decides and carries out the task.

[@Zretgul_timerunner]

Most of europe works along that for that matter

[@dom19945]

It's not legal to do this in America either. Destruction of other's property is illegal.

[@LordMegatherium]

@@dom19945 Customs will gladly feed fake Guccis and Rolexs to the shredder. All you'll get is a notice of destruction.

[@adventuress904]

@@LordMegatherium US customs is never going to deal with Magic cards bro

[@LordMegatherium]

@@adventuress904 Probably yes but that's more to do with counterfeits affecting the secondary market. If some kind of Chinese entity were to spam the market with Neon Dynasty cards right here and now you could bet your ass on the government buying extra coolant für their shredders because Hasbro is basically THE player in non digital games

[@mirrs]

Rudy out here teaching people how to do fake wear and tear

[@KingBobXVI]

The trick to faking that authentic wear is to put it in an unsleeved deck and play with it for 20 years. They'll never see it coming.

[@IHateGoogleHandles]

KingBobXIV LUL 500QI ,but its still possible to see with macro lens no one can replicate that much print pattern and even if someone is doing that is not one people in the moms basement is really fucking expensive to make to be close to perfect looking in macro lens . Im thinking here if u have that much understanding of print and also have giant places with a bunch of professional printers and people to run thoses printers then why the hell you are not having a real company? Its like you have the best space engineers and equipment to make a space rocket company but you are spending the resource in making realistic rocket toys 🤔 So i thinking it will never be printed a perfect fake card.

[@samurottninjawaterdragon]

@@KingBobXVI 20 years too long, Lets play 200 games instead but every time we do something I flick one of my cards and every time I shuffle I shuffle 3 times.

[@ninjamania]

Easy precaution: take high resolution scans of what you’re sending in. Then you can verify the ones sent back are the same ones. Hell, I video the few payments I send in with money orders, right up to the moment I’ve sealed them in the envelope and drop them into the slot.

[@LaserPenguinGames]

You could say they really cut corners on that fake Black Lotus lol

[@wookiebush7449]

what am I doing here, I've never even played MtG

[@goldenrule3264]

Me either but here em I.

[@residentcuck9082]

DO NOT OPPOSE THE RUDY

[@Malcadicta]

KZbin algorithm at its finest! (I'm not complaining, strangely enough I usually end up liking whatever it throws at me, like here - even if I never played MtG)

[@Mirrie08]

Same, random KZbin

[@Burnul]

yall should find a local game shop and get a free welcome deck and learn to play usually the communities are great

[@drewjn]

Honestly, those stores got lucky. Waiting for unset Owner of Timmy's Emporium, planeswalker card.

[@Altorin]

Honestly the guy who sent the power nines to them got lucky If he was truly an honest actor (and the fact that he sent 6 good quality power nines in to get appraised tells me he probably was), then he could have been sued as soon as someone he sold them to figured out they were fake and he wouldn't really have a leg to stand on.

[@GussR9]

That card made for you is wicked cool. Well done. Sad that stuff like this happens to people.

[@benhaney9629]

A little hint... Don’t send 10k worth of stuff through the mail. And definitely don’t send it to strangers. Especially especially strangers who make a living off of selling such stuff. Not smart.

[@notgaea5834]

Destroying something that's someone's is definitely wrong, doesn't matter fake or real

[@jfast8256]

Including counterfeit cash that can be used as legal tender screwing people out of money? What about counterfeit collectibles that can be sold to people who get screwed? While I was in Korea, once I was given fake money back. I wasn't paying attention. I was just looking to make sure the amount was correct. Well when I checked how much cash I had on me, I noticed what some of the 5000s looked like and I wasn't happy. I had 3 strips of paper that was worth 0 and some asshole turned 3 fakes into a real 15000 won. Personally, I would cut them up too. I won't even go into the amount of times I was paying in US dollars or Euros and given a cheaper, mostly worthless, quarter sized foreign currency because I never look at the change, only the shape.

[@aennaenn7468]

If you think something is counterfeit, you call the police, not take matters into your own hands.

[@Vermino]

So my replica 69 camaro SS should be torn in half and sent back to me? Wouldn't want me to sell it like it's an original I think police should've been involved and came up with a solution for the owner to keep the cards intact but not be able to put for resale without disclosure. I would feel bad for a store to buy something like that and lose their ass BUT if I bought those cards for a cheap amount, I would just use them for decoration in my gameroom.

[@sylvainh2o]

anyone know where you can buy decent fake cards just to play with friends?

[@roren091]

What if the ones he sent was real, but they switched em to these "fake" cards, and sent that back?. Now that is also a scenario i could imagine couldv happened,

[@NuminorTheFool]

12K worth of cards is a lot to be messing around with. It's also a huge amount to send via the mail and trust that someone along the lines isn't going to try and screw you. So duel perspectives here. 1st - Dude did send in fake cards, store rightly tries to get them out of circulation so that no one else is screwed by this, the email argument was legit and they did right to stand their ground on the issue. 2nd - Dude sent in real cards, store seeing how much they're worth claims they're fake and that they've been destroyed, store has just conned someone out of 12k. Email back and forth goes on for a long time while store gets set of fake cards ready to send back to back up their claim. That's both of what I think could have happened. Though things to note with this. First, with the amount of money in play here NEVER let the items out of your sight. You need to protect your investment because as much as we would love everyone to be on the up and up that just isn't the case and as soon as they leave your sight you've lost all control over your own property. Second, the store needs it to be video documented from the moment they receive the cards to the moment they can be seen as fake and clearly show the seller why they're fake. In most cases this will elminate the sellers feelings that they're being screwed over.

[@huot2012]

If it was the 2nd option then you would keep the destroyed cards and sue the buyer in small claims court, you wouldn't send them to some random person online.

[@wizardsmix7961]

@@huot2012 theres literally nothing you can do in that situation.

[@huot2012]

​@@wizardsmix7961 You document every square inch of the card before shipping them, you have proof of the condition of the cards prior to shipping them. After the email chain of them saying they are going to destroy them and the seller protesting it you would record the opening the package to show the new condition. if the cards condition don't match up you would be pretty likely to win in small claims court as you only have to be 51% likely. As now you have condition of the cards prior to selling, you have proof the cards aren't the same after getting returned, as well as email proof of you requesting them not destroy the cards.

[@wizardsmix7961]

@@huot2012 Well yes, but the guy doesnt have that proof so hes fucked

[@JarodMoonchild1975]

@Numinor The Fool *Dual, if you meant as in TWO perspectives. A duel, is a historical way of settling a score, usually by swords or with pistols.

[@iananddani]

I have to wonder if the shop switched the cards for counterfeits and now have original cards and sent back counterfeits

[@flips9047]

there is literally no way to prove this either way

[@SK8R43]

@@flips9047 theres also no proof that they didnt....

[@iananddani]

Yeah its also possible

[@iananddani]

Why is rudy the only one that can claim a card is fake or real?

[@sad10promo]

That’s what I was thinking

[@micahriddle2369]

Rudy, mom said to stop making videos and come upstairs for dinner.

[@GM-rs2fv]

micah riddle 🤣🤣🤣

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

You know when i seen the name of Rudy i thought of chalk zone and man that is one old show

[@TheWizard856]

The takeaway is never send valuable cards to a store over the internet. I'd imagine a decent percentage of stores will keep the cards and send back fakes.

[@RogueScholarMDC]

"Found it on the ground" is kid-speak for "I stole this"

[@jessehall6651]

Stole it and didn't want that person to know I stole their card so I altered it heavily to make it seem like I found a different one.

[@JarodMoonchild1975]

Tell that to my Bacho wrench, and the Olfa carpet knife, I found outside, as well as a jacket, foldable pilot sunglasses, a pouch of makeup stuff, et cetera. You can actually find things outside on the ground, and all these things, I've found over the years. Even a couple of those mats you sleep on in a tent, when you're hiking/camping. So there, it's not impossible, just a rare thing to happen.

[@aria8928]

That's my pencil gib it bak

[@sparxtheknight]

I’ll never forgive Kelsey for swapping mechanical pencils with me just because her eraser was worn down and mine was new...hoping that karma comes back full circle (20 years later that still pisses me off she used that same exact excuse too of “oh, I found it”)

[@NerdOracle]

while you might be correct in your assumption, i don't think it's fair to right off the possibility that he really did find it abandoned. i happened upon 3 battered cards at the side of the road 5 years ago when i was on a walk

[@Tr3v0ne]

Big money to be had if a store in Texas destroyed the cards. It is illegal to destroy any personal property without permission or court order, Unless you agree to some terms that are binding upon sending in the cards. Always read fine print.

[@NekoSauce]

Yea us Texans take money seriously

[@NekoSauce]

Even more so we like our stuff more than money

[@Figgy20000]

You're an idiot. Resellers always make you sign an agreement ahead of time. 100% it's in the fine print that they destroy counterfeit items that are probably sent to them from hundreds of scammers on a daily basis.

[@kingkrypto7729]

woo! Texas! fuck ya if Someone cut up my broke ass only decent card I'd have to probably shoot at them or just shoot em with my ol breach load sawed-off scatter gun savage 12 ga

[@luckyskin09]

so what if they just kept the actual real beta cards that he actually did hit the jackpot and they sent him back some fakes they already had, this is why i would never see big cards through mail lol

[@WildBluntHickok]

It's like that "cash for gold" scam that was on tv years ago. If you pay attention to the details you get quoted a price for your gold AFTER you've already sent it in. I heard they always offer one tenth what the current value of gold is.

[@RamzaBeoulves]

Yeah because people just send 12k worth of cards through the mail without any documentation and stores ahve fakes of those cards with the same wear on hand. Let's be real, most of these stories are complete BS and that guy never was offered 2k by other stores.

[@magiccollector]

Hmm, what if he send real cards and the store claims them fake keeping the real ones, send back fake ones and just fraud your subscribers by 12000$

[@Mallhall85]

Obv!👍

[@christianbarnay2499]

First thing you don't send 12k worth of goods per mail to a random store you don't know without some kind of insurance. So many bad things can happen on the way or in the store. This story seems really fishy. Almost as fishy as the kid who "found a black lotus in the street" that is so obviously fake. But that doesn't give the right to the store to destroy them. In my opinion the store should report the fakes and hand them to the police and let them handle the counterfeit case with the owner.

[@omikronweapon]

@@christianbarnay2499 that wóuld make more sense than to cut up just six cards and e-mail the guy "we destroyed them dude, you want em back?". First of all, he possibly tried to fuck over your store. Second if he's an actual scammer, he's probably got tons more and those six won't make a dent in his pocket, plus he's still free to try that shit again and again.

@@omikronweapon gay

[@kobaine4486]

@@christianbarnay2499 police arent gonna give a shit about magic cards. its not illegal just a douche move to make em.

[@stevenvang267]

Be careful when ripping other peoples “property”

[@MTGUnpacked]

Did anyone notice that troll card had an uncanny resemblance to Rudy? Nobody could fake that!🤑

[@chickennoggets6000]

Mtg unpacked hi big fan o and lol he got his own card

[@FearlessDemise]

If those cut cards had been real I would have cried.

[@tobiasstenklyft9783]

I just dont get how you could be allowed to destroy someone else's property. So it was fakes, but he could use them as proxies. If you wanna do that quality proxies on your own they are gonna be quite expensive unless you work in a printing shop.

[@NaZtRdAmUs]

I really like that basement troll card.

[@Modiggidy790]

NaZtRdAmUs lol, yeah it’s so bad it’s good haha

[@Joker-no1fz]

@Tommaso Grillo they are butt hurt cause they think its investors fault cards cost to much when its actually wizards fault.

[@JustinWedekind]

I'd take one, and I'm surprised I had to scroll this far to find this comment

[@jackwirth351]

I feel like any online store can be untrustworthy especially around cards like the power nine. I mean they could literally have like hundreds of counterfeits on hand so they can get free $2,000 cards.

[@Rhoney716]

the basement troll card made this video! lmfao I have not played this game in years but love your videos. I enjoy the artwork and your humor lmao

[@aviv4263]

I have a feeling that the company he sent them to sent back fake cards and kept the real ones

[@shadowviruz]

Reminds me of the time I saw a picture of Chaos Orb in a magazine, I cut It out and tapped it onto a plains. It was so obvious it was fake lol.

[@cosmicvines]

Now you have to wonder if the store sent back the original cards or just cut up fakes

[@Last_Resort991]

That Lotus is what you would get send on Ebay declared as Near Mint condition.

[@jameshoneycutt785]

I would have tempted to open up a case with the people who destroyed the cards saying "I gave you real cards, you swapped them wtih fakes, and sent me back destoryed fakes." Worth a shot.

[@draconicsonofodin5040]

just letting people know a lot of the time when people cut the corners on cards it's used a lot by magicians use it for slight of hand or magic tricks its known as trimming the deck or card so if you put it in a dec there will be a slight indent in the deck telling you exactly where that key card is in the deck at any time

[@Buffy111000]

thats true! in this case its done to conceal that the corners are not quite rounded like a legitimate mtg card but the magician trick stuff is a good cover story for them haha

[@dj4rapz]

Dont you just love it when you are walking down the street and see a MTG card lying on the ground?

[@animoshho]

Nice account photo. Can i cut you in half you "counterfit"

[@dj4rapz]

@@animoshho Dad?

[@simoncenteno2755]

I actually throw everything but the rare or foil from the pack on the ground, no kidding.

[@patrikpass2962]

@@simoncenteno2755 thats littering, fuck you

[@guidologo]

I once found a backpack with decks. Found the owner on fb. Knowing what I know now... Ill probably try to find the owner again.

[@jneb5979]

What if he got hosed? What if they sent him fake cards back and kept the real ones 😳

[@omegaweapon5684]

I had a teacher rip up my magic cards back in the 90s. She thought us that played were satan worshipers.

[@DM-qm5sc]

Should have sacrificed her!

[@harrowed777]

I almost got expelled for "playing that black magic game again."

[@rwxstudio7173]

@@harrowed777 Yep. Back then there was a lot of satanic/devil imagery on the cards. Magic became the new D&D of devil worship unfortunately 😔

[@RedPlaystationController]

@@harrowed777 That didn’t happen.

[@neroxheronix3571]

I have to say that I love the Look of worn cards. Just warms my heart from all the nice memories...

[@patmacrotch5611]

There is no way he tested those with a loupe. Any fake card under a loupe is obvious.

[@Joker-no1fz]

probably a completely made up story to get on a KZbin video.

[@fsmoura]

yea everything is made up these days, for instance i just made up this comment and no one is the wiser

[@WestonEvans]

Have some faith man. Occam’s razor says what would even be the point of that. Have you even ever had so much of an inkling to lie to make yourself feel better? One so that you’d perform various tasks just to make sure your lie was believable as possible? People only do that when it’s necessary to cover their own rear (or on reddit lol). It’s so easy to say that’s not real when there’s not a ton of proof but there’s nothing wrong with these stories. They could really happen as im sure they have happened in the past. So if nothing else if you still refuse to believe them, you can still just say that the anonymous Timmy that sent it in was the one who had exact thing happen to them.

[@TheNatester222]

This is my second video I have watched of yours and I'm already hooked, Love these videos

[@m0istm3m33]

0:23 - Damn Rudy, comin out with the roast. Someone's taco is extra hard today...

[@TheBoxBreakers]

Rudy’s basement troll as requested watched till the end. Always appreciate the long form thank you.

[@allenmitchell7865]

Hear me out. What stops a company from keeping your real cards worth thousands then sending you back cut up counterfeits. How can you prove what happened and protect yourself?

[@joeyzucchini]

You could sue

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

By being cautious and recording the state of the cards like quality condition and record you putting them in the box to be shipped off and record the ones you get back but turn the camera on before you open it noting the condition and all of the cards to make sure they are the same that way you have legal grounds if they actually send you back fakes however them destroying them is a different story which could also get them in trouble depending on the state they are in allowing that or not. And mind you it has to be a good quality camera to make sure the claim is good. Also backup the recordings and backup the backup of the recordings the same with your emails and calls as you never know what could happen mostly when you are talking about that level of money. A lot of people would call that over cautious and not be doing even a little of a screenshot even if the cards were real as usually they would trust the stores to be honest but you have to be over cautious when it comes to that kind of money and not a lot of people realize that.

[@Born_Stellar]

@Brett Hazelton I'm a simple man, someone offers me 12k for some cardboard, I take it.

[@rickross9829]

@Brett Hazelton cardd

[@allenmitchell7865]

@Brett Hazelton how dumb can you be for your comment. Answer really dumb.

[@SwizZLe333]

Rudy, your awesome for doing these videos about cards etc. I don't even play Magic, well back in the day once or twice with a basic deck from a friend with a friend....but its cool, I'm 39 now and wish we had this platform to share etc back in the late 80s early 90s about cards in general

[@cutlass1234]

What if someone who bought a fake wanted to sue who they bought it from? How can they do that if the grading companies are destroying evidence?

[@Twinrehz]

From what I can tell from the law that's referenced (disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or anything), it refers to the governments responsibilities in a court of law to determine whether there was actual criminal intent behind the sale of a counterfeit product. I could be wrong in my interpretation (I'm not even sure that I found the law itself, or just a reference to it), so I'll post what it says, verbatim from the department of justice website: In order to establish the criminal offense under 18 U.S.C. § 2320, the government must prove: (1) that the defendant trafficked or attempted to traffic in goods or services; (2) that such trafficking, or attempt to traffic, was intentional; (3) that the defendant used a "counterfeit mark" on or in connection with such goods or services; and (4) that the defendant knew that the mark so used was counterfeit.

[@carls.6746]

this had to be a bait and switch. no store would offer so much for obvious fakes.

[@givemeaforkingname]

Two different stores the way I understood it. A local store that offered the $2K (who may not have been qualified to spot fake and genuinely believed they were legit) and a different outfit the guy sent them to for valuation (and probably proper grading) so he could sell them himself for much more when he got them back. And even though he suspected they may be fake he went ahead and did that. I can't believe all the people here who are so convinced it's a big bait and switch rip-off conspiracy.

[@omikronweapon]

@@givemeaforkingname That's a LOT of speculation for someone who dismisses other people's so easily.

[@b-man341]

“Looks a teenager in middle school” nah that looks like pre-school handwriting

[@leodouskyron5671]

9:35 Not a lawyer but this is pretty clear. Still theft to keep anything you do not own. And it is illegal to destroy property you do not own. So you would have to pay for the destroyed property and if it is fake then it is worth only the paper it is made of and usually that is about nothing. This is a loss that is unrecoverable because there is no actual value to the item. And the maximum reward would be the value of the paper and ink - basically nothing. I can’t see any way to recover and you NEVER would get the value of the real card. However never destroy anything someone gives you to evaluate unless you tell them up front that you may destroy it. You owe a duty of care when you do that kind of service and so it is reasonable that the person may want it back to get a second opinion (even when that is not going to change anything). The only possible way this kind of thing goes to court is if the person tried to sell you the card (that is fraudulent) and that can cause a case with penalties that they would have to deal with that could be fines or even possible jail time. Ripping the card is the least thing to worry about there.

[@tattoomaniacsalina]

They may be fake, but it has to be illegal to destroy someone else’s property.

[@howieewalt1322]

Weird, how I literally think about MTG for the first time in my entire life outside casually hearing/knowing about it, and I am bombarded by ads/recommendations.

[@Nytequiller]

Wow, that unreleased card looks like terrible print quality. The foiling and art are so nice though, what a shame.

[@Nildread]

This reminds me of a classmate when I was in highschool, they loudly proclaimed that it was -0 out side. Another time they said "it isn't rocket scientists" so golden.

[@MrLazyleader]

I think minus 0 means below 0 in that context.

[@hcmtnbiker]

Side note: It is illegal to knowingly ship counterfeit items of any kind through the postal service. Asside from that, with stories like this I always wonder if the place he sent them didnt switch his cards with fakes. Especially when they're so reluctant to ship them back. Whenever I work with anything like this I make very detailed logs with pictures detailing every single imperfection in the card to be sure what they send was in fact the same one back. I was burned once with an online purchaser swapping my goyf I knew was real, I pulled from a booster back durring Time Spiral, with fakes and claiming that's what I sent them, never going to let that happen again.

[@linhaohoward]

The key word in question of being illegal is “knowingly” and this is really hard to prove unless you can assess a individual’s knowledge and expertise on the product.

[@hcmtnbiker]

@@linhaohoward the point is if you receive counterfeit products and know that they are its actually illegal for you to return them through the mail.

[@BarginsGalore]

Hao Lin also counterfeit is a tricky term because if both parties acknowledge that the card is not genuine it would be a proxy. Which is perfectly legal

[@sanjicook08]

@@hcmtnbiker that's what people don't understand. The shop COULD NOT mail them back without destroying them. There were emails and everything proving the shop knew they were fakes.

[@lilyliao9521]

@@sanjicook08 no

[@Chpow01]

The dots on the back of the lotus are from fingertips pressing on the card, even if you think you are 'aging' the card you are simply sanding in 3-5 spots. VERY easy to recognize sign of intentionally damaged card

[@RagsLighthouses]

Rudys really desperate for views if hes putting out someones fake story

[@Joker-no1fz]

lol so fake both of them imo.

[@palopinto8897]

That Rudy Troll Foil is probably the best thing i have seen on this channel to date!

[@BigMikePlays]

He got hosed they kept the real cards... sent the counterfeits back to him.... dont trust online.

[@alexwest2573]

I get cutting them up to prevent people from being scammed but couldn’t they just hole punch the cards like a expired drivers license? The real cards are expensive at least with a hole punched fake card you can use it for kitchen table Magic unlike one cut in half so I see why the guy would be upset if he might’ve wanted to play them in that regard

[@prollyjusyellin]

God my hatred of counterfeits and my love of individual rights is is at such a war right now.

[@BR-dy1ie]

I have to ask why are counterfeits bad exactly? I get it for stores and such but I don’t actually understand how a counterfeit hurts a game if they’re the same card with everything else being the same.

[@-gnicE-]

@@BR-dy1ie proxies and counterfeits are two different ballparks. One is for play testing, the others intent to scam a ton of cash. Proxies are often basic lands with a card names written on them in sharpie or super fake looking joke cards. If its trying to resemble a real mtg card that's where I draw the line. If some dude cant afford snapcasters and wants to use a basic island with a picture glued to it to playset I'm all for it.

[@kedolan4992]

@@BR-dy1ie As Trava there pointed out, it's down to intent: If you want to use a cool rare card in your deck, and your opponent is fine with you using a fake, game on. If you want to turn around and try to sell that card to someone who doesn't know it's fake for huge sums of money, that's where the issue is. In this particular case, he could have sold them to that earlier store for $12k+ cash, but decided to try to get more since he thought the store offered him a lowball price. If the cards were indeed fake, that store would be out $12,000 which could be enough to ruin a store.

[@BR-dy1ie]

Kedolan ahhhh now I see the issue. I never even think about the idea of selling them because I don’t buy trading cards as is. I thought there was something specific wrong with using counterfeit cards in a general match

[@kedolan4992]

@@BR-dy1ie It's a bit of a grey area there: if the opponent knows and are fine with it, game on as I said, but on the other hand, collecting the cards IS part of the game, so the other guy might be a little miffed if he spent a lot of time/money getting his deck together, and the other guy shows up with a photocopied deck or something and didn't tell him, for instance. Minor gripe, but still legit, and most people would probably be fine if you only have a couple "fake" cards so long as you tell them going in.

[@stephensimpson8981]

I have acquired 1500 Basment trolls and each has a different variant of worms on his face I'll take 25 draino boxes for them.

[@headwrinkle9896]

Yea, pretty sure it's illegal to destroy someone's private property. I can't see there being a legal exception for dorks with stores

[@godlee4888]

But there is in many states. Lol Maybe if you educated yourself instead of trying (and failing) putting down other people, maybe you would know that.

[@georgeasimakos1744]

The easiest way to spot the new fakes, if they're minty, is by looking at the way they were cut from the back. The entire edge of the card around the back side is slightly upturned, whereas normal magic cards only have a slight upturn on the very corners and the rest of the edges are completely flat on both the front and back sides. If they get a bunch of natural wear, though, it can become difficult to spot some of them. I got a fake Firestorm from Weatherlight the other day that literally looks exactly like the real Firestorm aside from the way the card was cut - that was the only way I could tell them apart without destroying both cards to see the core. Kinda freaky.

[@michaelschuler2711]

Dam rudy finally got a card made with his mug on it

[@killafrog124]

Early on he had one sent to him during his card shop life series he did for a while. It was a planeswalker card. Either way its fun seeing these rudy made cards.

[@y2j1490yahoo]

Damn not dam .

[@jessehall6651]

For some reason I thought that was Kripp lol

[@Daerioz]

Absolutely love your attention to detail in this channel.

[@Nethezbet]

Found it on the ground? Kid speak for "I made it." lol

[@NerdOracle]

not really. back in 2014 i happened upon 3 magic cards laying at the side of the road in roughly the same condition as that lotus

[@NerdOracle]

@War Zone k

[@AudioAndroid]

My Wife shows all these classic signs of self inflicted ware and tear I knew she was fake thanks Rudy I sub.

[@Ucceah]

my expert advice: OP should pay a local junkie, to burn down the store he's sent those cards to. whether the cards were fake or not , or he didnt know. 10% up front, the rest upon quest completion.

[@omikronweapon]

paying in crack, exp, or just cash?

[@devoted2thaentertainment207]

Rudy I always watch your videos from beginning to end, I never skip through 😎

[@Modiggidy790]

Devoted2ThaEntertainment yeah it would be smart to throw a giveaway secretly away in a video at the end. Not a bad way to get full videos watched on KZbin.

[@laylen245]

i remember back when Pokemon cards 1st came out i had a 1st edition Charizard i had every shiny in 1st set so i took them it into a card shop to see how much they would give me for the whole set the guy said he would give me 150$ but he just wanted to go get his glasses to check something he took my Charizard with him and tried to replace it with a normal one i was only 13 i got to the door and was about to walk out when i realized and i fucking went nuts he wasnt going to give it back till my dad jump the counter and all most snapped his neck he went out of business 3months later. there is some dodgy people out there.

[@gregoryjames7696]

If I sent some cards to be authenticated(not sold per say) and the store decided to destroy my property without warning me beforehand that fakes are destroyed I would certainly exact punishment. Without question.

[@korytoombs886]

I'm not sure there's a law that would allow a company to destroy the cards, sounds like something an agency should do on their behalf. I would go to the store and rip of their cards in half and say its your policy to rip cards in half if they do it to you first.

[@Bearrden]

Again, I haven no interest in playing or investing in Magic but love watching these videos!

[@JarodMoonchild1975]

@Alpha Investments As a bunch of viewers of this video already has pointed out, what if the store in question, kept the real cards, and returned cut fakes to the sender? I'm not trying to steal their point, but I'm curious why that point is never brought up by YOU. Are you (indirectly) saying that you think the person was trying to scam the store, or did the whole "shady store"-concept, never enter your mind? Genuinely curious about that, no hate on my part.

[@jasonl3445]

Thanks for shareing rudy!

[@zoeymara]

never heard of a law that allows that , in fact most laws disallow it , you cant not destroy another persons private property regardless of the reason , if it was me id get a lawyer

[@Mythryl12]

Ok, say you get a lawyer...and you sue them and win. What are your damages? Oh yeah...some fake worthless cards. They can replace them with other fake cards, or a few bucks. Meanwhile you've spent much more money on that lawyer. You won't get attorney's fees for that either. In fact the judge would probably laugh at you asking for it when it turns out you wasted the court's time on a lawsuit over five bucks worth of fake cards.

[@mmjcmusic]

@@Mythryl12 The store is in all kinds of trouble if the guy sues. Even if the damages are minimal or the judge will laugh at him lol. I'd lawyer up immediately.

[@zoeymara]

@@Mythryl12 damages would be more than value of some fake worthless cards. in most states mine included allows a judge to require attorneys' fees to be paid to the winning party. plus you can win compensatory, general, and punitive damages that far out strip the price of the cards. if you think all they will get is replace of fake cards your dreaming. What they did in most states if not all states is illegal and will be assessed in the punitive damages , and yes they will get slapped hard by a judge.

[@Mythryl12]

@@zoeymara Illegal, perhaps. But that does not enhance civil damages. Punitive damages are generally calculated as multiplications of actual damages, so again...not even close to the value of an attorney's fees. It's nice to fantasize that this person could get vindication in a civil court but it's not going to happen. The only way they could get some measure of justice is if the filing party does not care how much it costs and is willing to go out of pocket, in which case the store too will have to pay those same exorbitant fees to defend themselves - far beyond any value they might get out of cutting up someone's fake cards. As far as 'awarding attorneys fees', that is almost always due to a frivolous filing or something that 'shocks the conscience'. All this store would have to do to avoid that is to say that they did what they did to protect some other future potential victim who might be tricked into buying the fake cards. That doesn't give them the legal right to destroy the property, but it does protect them against a claim that they destroyed the cards out of pure malice towards the owner.

[@Mythryl12]

@@mmjcmusic Trouble, yes. At least in the sense that the store will also have to hire an attorney to defend itself, or else risk that the owner's lawyer will take them to the cleaners. Assuming they both have attorneys the damages will be very small but the store will also lose a ton of money paying its lawyer which is worth much more to them than cutting up someone's fake cards. As long as the owner is willing to spend his own money, it would probably motivate the store to cease that practice.

[@just_ruby_fps]

Yeah my attorney would had already called the store telling them they are screwed

[@Mister_HULK]

I see a few comments and I agree what if the store scammed him and kept the real ones

[@RamzaBeoulves]

For that to be the case the store would need to have fakes of the cards on hand and the guy would need to send 12k worth of cards through the mail without first documenting them or having any kind of proof.

[@omikronweapon]

@@RamzaBeoulves why on hand? The dude wrote that they had emailed back and forth for a while with the store going back on their story. Maybe to buy some time to get fakes made or shipped? I don't know or care, but it's a possibility.

[@Kokonutzlz]

3:09 you can also see that the wear has what looks like the fingers of the person who scratched the card up

[@DaGraveCrowder]

Imagine you just *find* a Lotus on the ground lol

[@addonexus2656]

Me and my buddy actually used to play on the concrete part of our playground in the shade and our cards were rubbed like that from taps and attack motions. I had some cards get bent like that too where we just kept our decks in our backpacks. But those cut corners are strange, and the edges would be more frayed.

[@mmjcmusic]

Dude please, I'm not from the states but even I know you can't just go and destroy someone else's property without consent. There's also the possibility the dude was duped and robbed from real cards. If he has some extra cash, he should lawyer up and tear that store to the ground. Counterfeit or not, it was his property that got destroyed.

[@sailingdede]

That basement troll is the bomb! I would definitely play it in all my decks :)

[@McTripsRipz]

"found on the ground" lol

[@Monkeyman12534]

I found a $50 bill on the ground as a kid.

[@McTripsRipz]

@@Monkeyman12534 congrats. I've only found a single once.

[@antonioamato3309]

I’m a Sanatation worker in downtown Manhattan and when they kick people out they usually just put everything on curb .. a apartment got cleared so i rummaged found a Rolex jewelr said he was dumb founded

[@McTripsRipz]

@@antonioamato3309 now that's interesting. Great pull!

[@antonioamato3309]

ST4Y D33P dude I of course thought was fake but when jeweler told me was real I asked him how much to clean it up 😂

[@pokepersonzach8574]

The reason I’d be pissed is because that store took away your ability to get a second experts opinion while retaining value. That would make me unimaginably angry

[@eric4946]

Those cards weren’t even close though , you can see on camera they’re fake. Think the real concern is them not having sent back the real deal…

[@HerbaceousM8]

did he send legit cards, have them traded with destroyed fakes?