Debate: Anthony Buzzard vs Drew Ayers

[@michaelwall4022]

Anthony Buzzard is an absolute gentleman here. I'm sure he could have demolished Drew Ayers, but instead he argued very agreeably. Drew was an agreeable debater also. The tragedy is that he and probably many others will hold on to their trinitarian beliefs that cause them to worship a false triune god and to have a savior who could not have died, and there fore they are still in their sins.

[@seeeoneself]

I am seriously concerned that people like Mr. Drew Ayers could possible minister anybody. His elementary lack of logic and the ability to comprehend the whole verses instead of cutting them to pieces without any respect for God's word and the context in which it appears is seriously worrying me. The most terrifying is the fact that this kind of people are leading others into deception of this false belief of trinity. I am very glad to see that Mr Anthony Buzzard gave so amazing testimony on the subject. This trinity issue has already caused so many casualties and is so dividing for all the Christianity that it can have its roots ONLY in Devil's teaching. Didn't Jesus prayed for us to be ONE? And just look at the Christianity now ? TWO WORLD WARS - both fought by the great Christian nations with over 60,000 ,000 dead - that is the way nearly whole nominal Christianity has been led astray .... Aren't Catholics and Protestants all are trinitarians ? enough said

[@winstonchurchill7005]

seeeoneself I agree. The Jesuits have turned him into a mental midget. Guess he doesn't understand Deuteronomy 18:18 or those many verses in John where Jesus states they are the Father's words and works and not his. So sad he believes the lies. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12.

[@winstonchurchill7005]

Drew, you are blind.

[@ianpaul7895]

Sadly, true.

[@ken440]

final comment. I notice Buzzard constantly points out "the Bible says..." and Ayers constantly says "I believe..." (big difference!) and then near the end Mr. Ayers modifies the statement "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus (Christ) is Lord," and he changes it to "....Jesus Christ is God!!!" which is NOT what the Bible says.!!!!!! Wake up deluded masses!! This chap Ayers is talking conjecture. Has he never heard that Jesus has been "made Lord and Christ" (of heaven and earth) as proclaimed by Peter in Acts2 and Jesus himself in Matt. And Paul tells us over and over that Jesus is Lord and head of the body, the church? Its in every epistle. Every Epistle starts with greetings in the name of "God the Father...AND... the Lord Jesus Christ!!!" The AND means something. Hats off to Sir Anthony for a polite though necessarily rushed exposition on the word. His point mentioned a few times is that of the Hebrew understanding of 'Representation' and its explained under the dictionary word 'Plenipotentiary.' Go look it up!! That was Jesus representing his Father. That is now also us representing Jesus our Lord and head. As for Jn1 and the Word... go read Prov8, you will find there a lady called wisdom who was also there in the creation times, with God, making stuff..... A quartet now instead of a trio?

[@heatcliffxjosu4413]

I agree with Anthony Buzzard

[@VennGamesMoreDoBeWeirdThoLol]

Well said

[@SoftBreadSoft]

Titus 2:13 "The appearing of the Glory of the great God and savior of us, Jesus Christ" Jesus is not being called God, but the Glory of God, which is the Glory of Israel, which Christ comes to fulfill. Luke 2:32 Hebrews 1:3 1 Corinthians 2:8 As for Acts 20:28 I see no kind of 'misinterpretability' that Christ is God here. "the blood of the own/with His own blood." As Jesus is God's begotten/made Son, Christ is His blood in a familial/spiritual sense but not fleshly sense of DNA and literal blood.

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

The people's questions to Anthony at the end and their remarks to the answers he gave demonstrated the effects of dogma on the mind of an individual. I personally don't think they got it, especially in the case of Psalm 110 that was consistently brought up... It is not "YHWH said unto YHWH" , or "YHWH said unto Adonai (Lord)" , rather and truly it is "YHWH said unto my lord (adoni)". This shows to me the gullible nature of man, in that just playing with one letter like the " l (L)" in the word lord/Lord can totally distort a person's preception. They were unwilling or unable to see that it was supposed to be "lord" in their bogus translation and overlooked the perfectly viable evidence to show such, the Trinitarian even tried to make a case that it had been tapered with by the niqqud ( vowel markers) in the Hebrew text and that it should of been "Adonai" not "Adoni" , yet his whole translation and understanding of ALL the Hebrew words depends upon the masoretic text, in which the words where given there proper understanding and pronunciation by the masorites.

[@JN-or1zr]

Well, the Trinitarian does point out why they refuse to believe sound reasoning or even the scriptures themselves: in their religion trinity is the God you must confess or perish.

[@tomasw6985]

This just hit me this morning. Has anyone heard the question "What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" The answer is there is one irresistible force and that is God. And there is one immovable object and that is God. And thus there is one God. His will is the irresistible force. And no one can move Him. Isaiah 55:11 "so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."

[@ken440]

Our man Ayers speaker says at 1 minute interval that Paul is saying there is one God and one Lord (correct) and that that Lord is the lord of the Shema. Incorrect! See Acts2.36..!!! "This jesus who you crucified has been MADE Lord and Christ" says Peter. In reference to Jusus crucifixion! Thats the context. Jesus himself appears to the disciples (end of Mathew I think) and says "I have been GIVEN all authority in heaven and earth!" Didnt he already have it in the trinnie understanding? Surely if Jesus is incarnate God then he was already Lord and already had authority!!!

[@pekde]

Good point this also.

[@ianpaul7895]

I have heard it said that you can't choose to believe an idea, that faith comes naturally when one is persuaded. But, it seems to me, from observing Trinitarians, that one can be unpersuaded of their doctrine and yet still choose to believe the lie. I don't think Buzzard's argument, about Psalm 110, is that it proves Jesus is not God, so much as that it does NOT prove that Jesus is God. And THAT point is exactly right. It would be great if there were a transcript of these lectures.

[@rev.billyvaughn1704]

What modern Bible translation would you recommend that does not have Trinitarian leaning mistranslation?

[@biblicalunitarianchris1447]

All of them have errors and their own agendas even those written by biblical Unitarians. I use the NKJV Bible as even though many of the KJV translators were trinitarian they kept very closely faithful and true to the original Greek and Hebrew texts, more so than I have seen any other Bible do the same except the NKJV which I believe is even more faithful and easier to read. I would urge you to check what each translation says against the Greek and Hebrew base texts and avoid bibles that don't have the Textus Receptus as their base as it has been trusted for over 400 years to be accurate in the form of the KJV. To help you out I will give you a link to both the Greek and the Hebrew for you to check your bibles against to see how much their are trying to mislead you or preserve the truth. www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm (Above is the Greek base text for the KJV) (Below is the Hebrew base text for the old testament) www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm Any questions just contact me at [e-mail]

[@jcobs5608]

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Download free version on JW.org

[@neftalis1thintersectionbau369]

@@jcobs5608 I am a unitarian and even I know that the NWT is corrupted and bias. Complete butchering of the Bible. Jesus the Messiah is a man, not a god, not an angel. GOD Is His Father.

[@jcobs5608]

@@neftalis1thintersectionbau369 I just responded to Universal Spiritual Paths’s question.

[@seeeoneself]

I forgot to mention that the only point I am not with Unitarians entirely is about the fact that I indeed lean somehow towards the idea of Jesus being earlier with God, in spiritual form as angels are, and then being stripped off his glorious form , becoming man and serving God and Humanity as a sacrificial lamb.. That will definitely be in line with some difficult for Unitarians passages, such as John 17:5 or Philippians 2:5-7 ( this one by the way is easily understandable if we understand how Jesus was an entirely opposite of Satan - who also was in God's form /spiritual / , but decided to become God's adversary and tried to grasp the power for himself). Of course Jesus wasn't just an angel who got incarnated - that would be very simple and he couldn't offer himself as a sacrificial lamb - you can be sure that Satan would quickly point that flaw out ! In His wisdom , God instead made him a man through the womb of Mary and act of birth, His personality stayed the same but he was stripped off all his glory (John 17:5 ) and power (Philippians 2:7) and become a 100% MAN so hi stood up to the challenge of surviving the Devil's attempt at his life in the same manner as the first Man, Adam could have done with first temptation. Unitarians (Anthony did that ) always refer to the fact that Jesus was begotten and so he started to exist when he got in Mary's womb. That is wrong - God CAN, DID that and will DO again - give body that he pleases to his servants. He can give us new , spiritual body, and he COULD transfer/transform the life of His son into embryo of human life of Jesus. This way Jesus could become worthy sacrificial lamb at the same having his origin in Heaven. This is how I believe but I am going to study this subject further, although I don't consider this to be something very crucial to clarify. Thank you again for uploading this video - very informative and helpful !

[@discipleshipwithdavid]

+seeeoneself You may have moved on from this topic, but I thought to give you a strategy that has helped me to read the bible. I was saturated in the trinity doctrine all through early church and christian hs. Just recently I have understood the truth of biblical unitarianism, only through many hours of diligent study and prayer. I think it is very hard to read the bible without a bias. So, what I did was figuratively put on trinity glasses, and then read a section of scripture such as Philippians 2. Then I put on the unitarian glasses and read the same passage. Then I will take both perspectives and put them up against the entire Gospel and see which one fits. I clearly see unitarianism in Philippians 2. This decision must be done with reason. Evaluating the evidence, and working really hard to not be deceived. Consider this. In Genesis 1:26, the Father was speaking to His Son, Jesus, prophetically. When Jesus read that Scripture when he was first learning Judaism, he understood what his Father meant by that. Jesus was to be the clay that the Potter made into His exact image. God created man "in the image of Himself" and that is what He expects in our lives. Another way to say that is this. The Gospel is that God wanted to make a people that become his image. His image is Jesus Christ. When we become like Jesus and say, "not my will but Your will be done" 100% of the time, we have become the will of the Father. We think we can't be completely like Jesus because we all still think that Jesus had some genetic advantage over us. And he did. The Spirit of his Father was in him from conception. We get the Spirit later in our lives after sin has taken its hold. If Jesus was God, of course he had no sin, he physically could not sin. But look at what God did with a man when He puts His Spirit within him. The men whom allow God's Spirit to move in them become like Jesus.

[@JN-or1zr]

@seeeoneself, that sounds like Unitarian to me. Your view is along the lines of the early logos theologians, before they abandoned reason and became trinitarians. Like Arian. I held your view for a long time and now and then still think how plausible it would be to have a truly human Messiah but with pre-existence. The more I learn the less it seems to fit to full witness of scripture... But it looks plausible from several NT passages. Unlike trinity which is totally out of thin air 😂

[@Backswell]

I agree, Jesus also said he saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven and that was a long long while ago

[@emmanuelyahaya-nh9fq]

I agree I believe he is the creation the literal Frist born of creation

[@seeeoneself]

@@emmanuelyahaya-nh9fq Someone had to be the first one to be created, right..? elemental logic :D

[@rickyzoe1]

With regard to Isaiah 43:11 where YHVH says " beside me there is no savior" and then Jesus being referred to as the savior in the New Testament therefore Jesus has to be God; It's quite simple when you really think about it. Jesus is the instrument God uses to save his people. God is the ONLY savior and he sent Jesus to do it. Jesus saved us because IT WAS GOD'S LOGOS. If i need a heart transplant and the good Doctor says " I am the only one who can save you" but we cannot find a donor. Then, in the fulness of time someone comes forward to donate their heart for me to live. The good Doctor performs the surgery and I live. Who saved my life? Of course the Doctor did but so did the Donor. Without the Doctor the heart would have been useless and I would have died. Without the heart the Doctors hands would have been tied and I would have died.

[@baubljos103]

Personally I found you line of reasoning rather interesting, although you seem to have twisted the text because you added a "YHVH" which does not appear in the actual text. (Thanks for adding your own translation to the confusion that already exists due to previous translator input. However, If I understand your claim, Jesus must be "the Lord" alluded to in IS 43:11 because that Lord said "beside me there is no savior". Interesting, but there's a couple problems with your claim. 1. Neither "the Lord" nor your "YYHW" actually directly said "beside me there is no Jesus". As such, you must infer that the "savior" referred to in IS 43:11 is Jesus. 2. Your claim neglected to dispose of the possibility that at the time Isaiah made his prophecy, that Jesus did not exist, or that Jesus did not exist as the savior. Problem #2 above may be a defect that is fatal to your reason (i'm not sure) because the NT seems to indicate that Jesus was "begotten" long after Isaiah made his prophecy. If that's true - (if Jesus was the savior and came into existence at the time he was born by Mary) - then it may stand to reason that prior to that time he was NOT the savior. In that event, the Lord thy God (the Father) would have been the only savior. If that were true, then his claim in Isaiah43 that there is no savior beside himself would be true even if Jesus did not exist.

[@rickyzoe1]

@@baubljos103 I think you're confused. I did not assert that Jesus must be the "Lord" of Isaiah 43. Actually quite the opposite. Also in the "actual text" of Isaiah 43 I count the word Yaweh 8 times. I'm not sure if you realize that when ever you see " LORD" in all caps in the old testament the actual word there is Yaweh. So yes YHVH does appear ( 8 times) and no it most certainly does not refer to Jesus.

[@baubljos103]

@@rickyzoe1 Yeah, I got confused because your citation to Is 43:11 did not specify any particular translation. So I went to the KJV version which alludes to "LORD" (not "YHVH"). But now that I review the Interlinear version I see and I concur with your original claim to the extent that prophet Isaiah described "YHVH" as the being who claimed to be the savior. You also wrote, "Jesus being referred to as the savior in the New Testament therefore Jesus has to be God;..." On the face of that claim as you wrote it, it seems to me that you are claiming that "jesus has to be god" because that is what you wrote. But now you say, "I did not assert that Jesus must be the "Lord..." Yes, I read what you wrote and as a result I was confused. Seems contradictory. First you claim "Jesus has to be god" but then you claim "I did not assert that Jesus must be the LORD". I recall in freshman english course in college the instructor said that if people get confused by what you compose then it's your fault - not theirs. May I please suggest that you consider composing your comments with more care? Unless I'm still confused about what you wrote, but didn't assert, I think that I agree with you.

[@rickyzoe1]

@@baubljos103 yeah I said "therefore Jesus has to be God" I think I was actually quoting someone in the comments. I forgot to use quotation marks. So yeah my fault. God raised me up out of the ghetto. I wasted much of my life. Unlike you, I never got the chance to go to college.

[@upclosepersonal]

Go watch more Sam Shamoun. Your lost like him​@rickyzoe1

[@DP-mj2dw]

Jesus is Lord God

[@jonathan-bo8kh]

To d.p. so in acts when it says Jesus was made Christ and Lord by God the Father .. Jesus is God in that scripture ? Lol hahaha you said Lord God read chapter 1 genisis then chapter 2 .. who tells the serpent to decieve Eve? Jesus you said Jesus did that .. so your saying Jesus is Satan oh wait back that up with Corinthians 2 chapter 4 verse 4 " the god of this world blinds mankind from knowing Jesus Christ is the image of God the Father " then back that up with Romans chapter 8 Paul says " to worship the image of God is not worshipping God " oh wait Jesus is Lord God . 1+1+1 is 3 learn math .. God is one .. backing it up .. Jesus says my father your father . My God your God .. so if Jesus is God then God has a God ? I'm confused .. is anyone else ?

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

@D P , unfortunately for your statement and position that phrase is found NOWHERE in the holy writ.

[@beverleyhealy3775]

Unfortunately Unitarians seem to still be deceived. They still believe in two Gods - one for the Jews and one for the Christians! Perry

[@dianaabraham1462]

May God almighty lead u in to all truth in the name of jesus christ our Lord Amen .

[@rev.billyvaughn1704]

Wrong, Unitarian Christians worship the Father only, the God of Jesus, who is the God of the Jews also.

[@raya7052]

Beverley Healy Unitarians only worship one God. Isn’t that the point of the word “Unitarian”? One God, one person, one being as opposed to “Trinitarian” which is supposedly one God but in three persons? The God of the Jews is the same God of the Christians. The Father. Jesus, a devout Jew, worshipped his Father as the one true God and asked that all of his followers worship God in the same way. It’s the same God. There is no trinity taught by Jesus or his apostles

[@ahmahtiyehudim7307]

@Beverley Healy , it wasn't possible to get that understanding from Anthony's position and argument. It is clear to myself you didn't listen attentively or grasp at all the point he was making, otherwise you wouldn't of left such an absurd comment for all to see.

[@driller7714]

If that were true it would still be one less than a trinitarian. Fact of the matter is, we believe in one God. The father. We worship one God. Jesus the son is lord as appointed by God. We honor Jesus as lord and not God. God doesn’t share his Glory as God. Honor to Jesus authority as lord is honoring the authority of God that gave it to him. Trinitarians give Gods glory to three.