Debate w/ Award Winning Pro Debate Coach (Wisecrack Director Lux)

[@destiny]

Unfair 2v1 Israel Debate DERAILS Into Insanity And Turns Destiny Pro-Palestine kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2bIY6l6drB9gdU

[@JustinRose11]

😂😂😂

[@NinjaOnANinja]

Look at it like I do. The world punches down. Then they meet you. Suddenly, it’s punching across or up, and they can’t handle that. That’s what it is. That’s it.

[@FordThunderCougarFalconBird]

Destiny are you on crack or speed or something?? That’s the only way I could possibly understand a word Dave Smith said. At least have your “editors” slow that stuff down in post.

[@Ligby]

Holy shit he’s just coping the entire time and struggling to find a way to defend himself in a defenseless position. You can see him agree and then try and do the mental gymnastics to crawl out of being wrong about Destiny in his “flippant” reaction

[@miketo201]

Dude destiny needs to chill out. He does not come off great in this interview. I know yall stan for him but come on, I like both wisecrack and destiny and this just makes me feel like I've been wasting my time watching them

[@therepublicofdave1498]

you know the debate is gonna be unhinged when they start nervously giggling to themselves after every sentence

[@Drdirtydee]

We need a heehee supercut on the debate coach debate heehee tactics

[@achmadaffandi7053]

Fake laugh. very annoyed me

[@GKJusticar55]

Bro his tone was insane.

[@Yrgzip0]

He started doing it when he realized he was going to have to give actual examples of what he was talking about 😂

[@kielsambajon3416]

its a good way to make everything seem "unserious" so when he eventually say something to offend someone or make someone angry, he just can easily fall back to the good ol' "why are you so mad?"

[@bread4393]

Liberal gets owned in debate: "Wow I suck" Tankie gets owned in debate: "Wow debates suck"

[@ghhh9012]

😂

[@Ihatemyusernamemore]

It do be that way

[@BrendanBeckett]

Conservatives too.

[@rexvectum]

​@BrendanBeckett are conservatives saying this now too? I didn't know this was a position literally anyone but Hasan held until today lol

[@Ihatemyusernamemore]

@@rexvectum Jordan Peterson kinda did, he had a debate with Destiny and then he's like "Destiny doesn't seek truth, he just tries to be right" he didn't say debate as a whole is bad, but he had some very Hasan, very Noah Samsen sounding rationalizations of his debate loss

[@Aaennon]

The next innovation in debates: silent debates where you make up each party's positions in your head

[@TurtleChad1]

Destiny has literally come out as pro ethnic cleansing

[@TurtleChad1]

Destiny supporting Israel's crimes isn't making up party positions. It's just the truth.

[@garywebb2432]

@@TurtleChad1 name some examples

[@noterrormanagement]

​@@TurtleChad1I think the rage bait would be more effective on Hassan's comment section

[@danielrafferty4108]

Would improve the rhetoric of 90% of the debate bro's to be sure 😅

[@Kyotosomo]

These clowns have to constantly cry about how bad debate is because they know their entire world view immediately crumples under the slightest bit of critical analysis.

[@Flame-ci7fw]

First good genshin fan

[@evanr5871]

@@Flame-ci7fwno such thing as a good genshin fan

[@Yrgzip0]

Says he’s a master debate coach, top 10 in the nation, but he’s also “not a big rememberer”. 😂

[@danielj7958]

Probably cause he's not super unhinged and triggered by what people say about him.

[@Yrgzip0]

@@danielj7958 If he didn’t care what people said or thought about him he wouldn’t need to make up such a crazy lie. The National ranked debater can’t remember a single sentence from the talk show he was on less than 24 hours ago. I can remember random conversations from yesterday, and none of them were broadcasted to tens of thousands….if it were you best believe I’d be able to recall parts of the conversation, especially if I were a “nationally ranked master coach” at something like debate.

[@LL-wc4wn]

He also debated Destiny online about debates online being worthless

[@rtmordecai1]

@@Yrgzip0he wouldn’t even admit that the recorded video evidence of him ad homing Destiny was even him and threw his cohost straight where the friends of leftist go; under the bus they’re shipping their enemies to the gulags in.

[@GreyKnight7777]

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

[@fiachracasey7625]

Love how the guy is against debating "just to be right" and 20mins later he's like "unwilling and failure are kinda the same but whatever" then loses all memory of the last 3 months

[@marxcherry]

leftist video essayists still bitching about debate being bad in 2024 was not on the bingo card

[@koolarooo]

It should have been lol

[@rocketrelm1125]

@@koolarooo It's not on the bingo card because it's the free space at the center.

[@RabidCupcake2010]

Of course it was on the bingo card, that never changed lmao

[@Kelvasisthebest]

This argument in a nutshell: "Why don't you hold me to the low standard that I hold myself to?"

[@enlightenednormie242]

True😂😂😂

[@Boswd]

If i paid money for lux to be my debate coach, i would request a refund...

[@howdareyou41]

he could be a vocal fry coach.

[@OlYables]

Dude seems like the Big Lebowski version of Matt Christman.

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

Every debate coach has an ego. This guy doesn’t just have an ego though he’s an impressive idiot. (Coming from someone who placed top 3 in the city of nyc)

[@Deathwhitch]

I was hoping when he said he paid big bucks for improv classes destiny was going to tell him to request a refund. It would have been the perfect response

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

He mentioned his credentials. You can be a good coach and just a mediocre player.

[@Schizo_Mystic]

The fake laughing and refusal to take anything seriously, constantly deflecting away to irony and condescension, was ridiculous.

[@keggerous]

The left in a nutshell... Seriously unserious people.

[@hata6290]

dude its not fake laughing his brain is just actually cooked lmao

[@Drewe223]

This guy is insufferable to listen to. I know this is shallow but the constant fake laughing coupled with vocal fry is very off putting. He’s like a cartoon version of what conservatives think progressives are.

[@ilyarake9844]

literally, i moved to LA from philly 3 years ago. Im pretty left leaning myself and so is my friend group out here but good lord nobody ive met is this insufferable and cartoonish. Totally agree it's like the idea of the snarky progressive who looks like a reddit lord and hides behind the keyboard came to life and it's such a terrible look for wisecrack or any ideas they have as whole. L mans.

[@jasondavis7913]

I was checking comments to see if people were pointing this out. The smugness is the cherry on top that makes him completely insufferable

[@asimplewizard]

​@@ilyarake9844to be fair, I moved to Portland and most of the people I've met have been cartoonish in one way or another. LA might have the chill progressives. Take me with you 😭

[@parsafakhar]

that's actually what progressives are

[@asimplewizard]

@@parsafakhar that's not true. Just like most conservatives aren't hillbilly morons or grifters, most progressives are just normal people. Don't let vocal minorities paint reality for you.

[@MetalJams]

“I’m not a big rememberer” Sick quality in a debate coach. 1:57:30

[@dxd15-u1j]

I endured both videos, and you can tell Destiny didn't watch the Wisecrack video. So this video goes something like Destiny saying they said X but either they didn't say X or they didn't mean what Destiny think they meant.

[@sgtduckduck]

LMAO. August did it. "Award Winning Debate Coach" 💀

[@justinr1513]

-The constant nervous laughter -Walking in circles -Smoking -Avoiding eye contact with the camera This “Pro debater” was about to have a whole panic attack. Id like to see these debates he was in, everyone mustve had blindfolds and read off every statement from a piece of paper.

[@Amick2003]

How many of us were impacted by the Jon Tron debate? Or the Skeptic Community debates? Those first Destiny convos I watched were the moments I started seriously questioning my positions on the right. It has an impact! I think these people have just never had moments of questioning their political alignment. They can’t conceive of open, curious people in the middle who are genuinely willing to listen.

[@sliceoflife4068]

The nervous chuckling killed me. Like he didn't really believe that anyone would take his point seriously.

[@OlYables]

I think it was more, with the laugh, that he was trying to show that he was above it all, and that he found talking with Destiny an amusing distraction.

[@PONCHOGUY100]

was probably just nervous dawg i would be haha

[@yaomingos2660]

The nervous laughter, pacing back and forth, back to back cigarettes, he realized he has no argument but must keep arguing. Spineless

[@GreyKnight7777]

I'm pretty sure he's laughing because he has to break down his explanations for Mr. Bologna the same way one would need to in order to provide a rationale to a 6 year old.

[@strajkz]

​@@GreyKnight7777nice bait /cope

[@milsimnthangs7087]

“Bro can I like smoke cigs on your stream? Aha sick dude.” > peaked in high school mentality

[@rexvectum]

He had to interrupt destiny to tell him about a sick prank call he made lmao

[@Jake-bt3fc]

If you think smoking is for children then you must have grown up somewhere pretty rough, lmao.

[@mkkpt]

Destiny finally got a debate with Everything Everywhere All At Once. He held all positions and none, simultaneously.

[@kazekagekid]

Wisecrack isn’t famous, btw, the channel only has numbers because it used to be Thug Notes, a Spark’s Notes channel doing reports on the typical mandatory high school reading books in an urban style using slang and humor while still discussing the actual plot and analysis well enough to get an A on your english test.

[@garywebb2432]

People only hate debates cause they can't defend their positions end of story

[@TurtleChad1]

When you encounter a destiny cult member on a comment section, you can sense how filthy and greasy their keyboards are, just by the way they formulate sentences.

[@ajax4676]

@@TurtleChad1idk if I just read a troll but why are you even here if you think this lmao. Cuz there is no way you watched the video right?

[@garywebb2432]

@@TurtleChad1 you literally copy and pasted this comment from a hasan clips channel good job

[@kopekopekop]

@@TurtleChad1even if it’s a troll we got some major projection here

[@theluchakabuto5206]

@@TurtleChad1 Lil bro is copy pasting comment in replies now

[@icowrich]

The strategy of calling Destiny Hamilton is a pretty common one. It's like when Dan Quayle cited JFK's age and his debate opponent replied "You, sir, are no Jack Kennedy." Quayle's point was sound: presidents can be young. Kennedy was elected at 43; Quayle would be 42 in his first full month as VP. But none of that mattered. Bentsen scored his point with the quip.

[@YuriDSC]

Wisecrack is such a great example of your brain inside an echo-chamber.

[@SpaceMen508]

This guy should not be anywhere near a debate. No shit he’s a *former* debate coach.

[@Senorbenignhillarity]

Lol I love the "former". Like how'd you leave? Are you shit at your job like this guy or did you crash the company car high on meth and then snort a line on a cops leg while in a chokehold? There's so many possibilities.

[@jdjenk04]

The “talking too fast” is just a cope. If people sincerely cannot understand you, they would ask for you to slow down or take a breather. The fact that it’s always brought up AFTER a conversation/debate is just a way to write off the substance of what is being said 10/10 times.

[@Senorbenignhillarity]

Yup. Saying after the fact he was talking too fast is wild as a defense. Can't think of e one other field of discussion where "im dumb" is an excuse to belittle others or walk away from discussions/dbates after lol

[@Cixtrist]

Exactly. There's SEVERAL EXAMPLES of people mentioning this mid debate with him, and he just immediately breaks it down barney style, for them to get them on the same page. And talks at a typical human pace, unless they start wildin. When the person he's talking to is staying genuinely open to a real back and forth, he's one of the most patient people in this space.

[@ekaterinastaneva9922]

Unrelated, but I didn't have my glasses and I thought your avatar is Trump. It's a ginger ca. Lol

[@cody967]

It's possible they're too embarrassed or nervous in the moment to say it. Worried they'll look dumb. Agreed that ppl annoyingly use it as cope post convo quite often tho.

[@oidokun]

Destiny could slow down when he talks, and he slurs his words together when he gets really excited

[@JazerMedia]

God this reminded me of the Ludwig shit. They're always down to shit on Destiny, but when they're pressed it's always, "Oh it wasn't that big of a deal. I just said that in passing. You're being mean."

[@XRayC4]

Unreal conversation. I can't understand how Lux didn't know his own position the entire conversation, and then got mad at Destiny "for being bad faith"

[@AMIDH12]

Dont think he wanted to be bad faith. Just think he came from a position of wanting to defend his friends a bit and was struggling to fend of his own prejudice against the gnome. But then again bro was not prepared at all.

[@howdareyou41]

every time Desinty: facts facts facts facts facts facts facts facts facts facts facts facts Opponent: Wikipedia over here lol Destiny: what did I say that was wrong Opponent: lOL hahaha you read that on wikipedia! hahaha you learned about it yesterday Destiny: what's inaccurate about what I said? Opponent: Mr Morelli you wiki[pedia hack I'm not wasting my time with you

[@jocksharerock7318]

@@howdareyou41the Finkelstein/BJG discussion was so embarrassing and so lacking self awareness. It seems that the Destiny haters give themselves away in their lack of substantive anti Destiny content. The mean girl giggling was an incredible low in a sea of them

[@wesomek]

Bad faith is just used as a shitty red hearing to avoid accountability. Worst he tried to pretend he didn't say or that wasn't his stance like a coward. I have some respect for someone I disagree with taking a stance, but thus guy is an invertebrate soon as he has to defend his own stance and opinion.

[@Dogan_TM]

@AMIDH12 Man, shut the fuck up. He 100% acted in bad faith. Any time Destiny gave him an out, he took it, ran with it, and tried to turn it around on him like a scumbag prick.

[@sigigle]

15:24 "The point of a comparison, is to compare two dissimilar things, and to compare a similar quality. It's not to draw a one to one parallel between those two things." That's been one of things that I've been most shocked to learn just how many people don't understand that. You'll make an analogy like: "Me fighting Mike Tyson would be like a poodle fighting a gorilla". And a staggering percent of people will be like: "It's ridiculous that you think humans are comparable to animals, they're different in so many ways." Like they completely miss the point of what's being compared and what isn't, and think you're making an equivocation between the two. It's wild how many people don't understand it.

[@pablo_sanchez479]

I used to be an anti-debate bro tankie fuck a while back. When you really think about being “anti-debate” it’s the biggest self-report a person can make, and is actually pretty depressingly reflective of the current state of online political discourse. Debate is literally explaining why you hold the beliefs that you have and putting in the effort to express and defend important ideas. Having a high level debate on the issues important to you in front of an audience of millions is legitimately of the most significant methods of activism you can do. If a person is anti-debate, they are against critical thinking and truth, and the only logical reason is that they don’t genuinely believe the shit that they preach and have no fucking idea what they’re talking about. It’s the most blatant sign that a persons entire ideology is a virtue-signal. If you are physically incapable of defending your positions and just cry about how “they just want to be right” at the slightest pushback, then YOU are the one that just wants to be right and you’re projecting.

[@henrytep8884]

You can actually have a discussion based off trying to understand one another versus having a debate. This is called dialogos, something John Vervaeke actually engages in alot to cultivate meaningful conversation. Debate is only one type of conversation to get clarity, it’s not the only one. Dialogue and dialogos is a discussion that is more mindful and gets into the flow state much better.

[@henrytep8884]

One good example is watching Jordan Peterson and destiny versus watching Alex O’ Conner and Jordan Peterson. At the same time watching Destiny on Alex O’ Connor or Chris Williamson, you can see the difference between him being in debate mode versus being in dialogos.

[@TheRedHaze3]

@@henrytep8884 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think dialogue requires both parties to be acting in good faith. 90% of the time not possible with an anti-debate tankie fuck like Hasan, for example.

[@roberteriksen6434]

You gotta admit, 99.99% of debates revolve around both parties speaking past each other because ever actually engaging with the opponent is a pure losing move. I get being against the concepts themselves is a red flag, but in practice it's garbage

[@Nitrolibit]

The problem with debates is that someone with good debating skills can "win" without their position being the truth, as well as the idea of who is right in the debate is often subjective based on the inherent beliefs of the listener. While I do not agree on a anti-debate position, I believe debates are just overrated as the most productive and high quality dialogue is made in the field of research, which is the true definition of critical thinking truth, and scientists do not really go and debate bro each other, they peer review and critique in, often, written format as you have more time to analyze the content. A debate is just a glorified performative act of the ideas that had been established in writing by others.

[@tannerteague4595]

I always love when people casually take shots at Destiny and are joking around, but then agree to actually talk. They think it's going to be like a content collab or maybe even a shitshow discussion, but then Destiny is so concise and reasonable while giving severe pushback so they're like oh fuck what do I even do? It's a great illustration of Destiny's newer talking point of constellation of beliefs/social pressures influencing political activity. Face to face with the D-man they all crumble. Homie ain't too bad though, he'd probably be fine to be around irl which is more than I can say for 90% of these progressives.

[@nocuh]

This convo gave us the glorious quote, “I’m not a big rememberer” 😂

[@hrolfthestrange]

'Debate coach responds to all arguments with embarrassed gibberish' this guy looks like he would've been a bard debate coach btw.

[@faketheo3432]

he was

[@hrolfthestrange]

@@faketheo3432 exactly

[@areliablesource7733]

"You didn't frame the entire history in a way that helps my narrative so you failed to engage"

[@RonMi95]

He did not have the presupposition that Jews bad 🤷‍♂️

[@JoeMama-gi1so]

Destiny will frame people and make a narrative all the time. Funny how he does the exact thing you will criticize other people for

[@doofy3111]

@@JoeMama-gi1soany examples?

[@deadzoneternity]

​@@doofy311110 hours later no response, I think not.

[@GreyKnight7777]

Pretty wild that the same people who screech "context matters!" when defending his Rittenhouse takes are the ones trying to abandon context when it makes their parasocial fave look bad.

[@supermike6519]

Why didn’t he just say that he is ideologically opposed to Destiny and he is unwilling to be charitable and would rather be flippant, and was too much of a dumbass to not go on D’s show and try to defend his poorly thought out positions.

[@SlimeDadUltra]

“My section wasn’t about you” lol

[@achmadaffandi7053]

‌“Well, this stream wasn’t about destiny…” Mentions him every other sentence and misrepresents him the majority of the time with no substantive evidence. Then shocked that he gets a negative response… Destiny’s conversation about rap music was about an hour into yesterday’s stream.

[@Oldhandlewasabitcringe]

Well the majority of it wasn’t if you watch the whole thing

[@GameSquad306]

@@Oldhandlewasabitcringe yeah, well, I feel like you still have a right to respond even in that case. if you talk about someone publically you should be prepared, to a certain degree, for them to talk back.

[@joonamannonen2270]

Peter Coffin reference😂

[@asimplewizard]

​@@Oldhandlewasabitcringe "Hey what was up with the hour and a half of you hardcore bashing me?" "Bro It was a 10 hour stream, it wasn't even all about you." Can you see the problem there?

[@EE-jp5ev]

If it wasn't for debate content, i would still be a super far right person. I was like JQ levels of extreme far right until i started watching my right wing content creators get fucking wrecked in debates. That was literally the thing that pulled me left. Hasan and his braindead ilk, including the dude from this video, would definitely have pushed me further right lol

[@korithex]

>wisecrack director >literally nothing wise about him

[@ronishamay]

More Wack than crack

[@TurtleChad1]

Nothing wise about a guy who shared his wife and abandoned his child 😂

[@theluchakabuto5206]

@@TurtleChad1 Steven's hard work in streaming will give Nathan a better life than anything you could ever hope to muster as a father without a stroke of luck. I'm convinced everyone complaining about his child is projecting feelings of their own parents who did a poor job raising them.

[@NekoViper]

@@TurtleChad1 Nothing wise about a guy who copy pastes unsubstantial insults.

[@tayw6466]

plenty of crack though

[@carrtmannnn]

Lux was pretty chill and he was so high he didn't even know what he said the day before

[@Lobeezy_n_Friends]

Wisecrack fell off when they let go of their og guys

[@benross9174]

I miss Jared Bauer so much

[@Lobeezy_n_Friends]

@@benross9174 he has his own youtube channel that feels like old wisecrack minus the production value. Highly recommend

[@megadong2398]

Agreed, they were such good videos, now it's just unwatchable shit.

[@AntiJovian]

It's so obvious these hosts are trying to worm their way into the whole political sphere, using the zombie subscriber numbers on their yt channel

[@HeatMiserr]

So true. Their film And media analysis was so good back in the day. I don’t know what happened lately. Been a while since I watched them. Used to love the channel

[@richboii6597]

Debate is important bc it’s the best way to stress test your positions and see how they hold up to scrutiny. That’s why it’s so important to debate in good faith and why it’s imperative that people debate people who are well versed in the subject matter.

[@Skratch63]

Those snarky awkward giggles gave me Katie vibes and damn near made me jump off my ladder at work.

[@AspiringDevil]

The blood will be on your hands Lux & Katie😅

[@Bilbo122333]

Same

[@Dyl_Pyckled]

Wisecrack was way better with Jared. His own content since leaving is pretty solid.

[@damx9385]

lmao i love how after 1.5 hours of debate the wisecrack guy casually reveals that he isnt the guy speaking in the background during the critique segment

[@RaijinProductions]

He also tries to walk back the founding father’s shit by claiming he mentioned them too, but earlier Destiny literally told him word for word what the comment was and he engaged with it. So spineless…

[@nickkarrick]

He's full of shit

[@roz9315]

I was a competitive debater many years ago - its a VERY small community. Im a little older than this guy so I dont know him personally but I knew his older brother. 2 important things to understand about competitive debate is that 1. literally anything goes. there are rules but you can argue that the rules are bad and they shouldnt be followed. and 2. there is a counter culture element to it. Most people show up to debate government policy. But some people will literally show up and say "debate is stupid so we should win." Many years ago some friends of mine dressed up as pirates for debate tournaments. They would steal judge ballots, vote for themselves as the winning team, and turn the ballots into the tournament directors. They just had to justify their actions in the debate round, which they were very successful at.

[@senortonyful]

The absolute cowardice of this guy

[@mentalglitch9603]

And you know he will be talking like a tough guy in the next few days when we recalls this conversation.

[@jimmytheenlightenedcentrist]

Just leaving a comment that Wisecrack has been absolute D O G S H I T. For years. They used to have a guy named Jared who still makes videos himself. His videos aren’t terrible and you can tell he’s trying to be a reasonable person. Wisecrack used to be like philosophy and now it’s like lefty content. You can tell who the brains behind the operation was. Legitimately would have to go years back to find a video worth listening to on that channel.

[@wesomek]

So basically it's one of the last of bread tube where they think it's still 2015 and lefty grifting keeps the money rolling in.

[@millionsbillionsnc]

some of the old "philosophy of x piece of media" was a really good introduction to different schools of philosophy and it got me into kierkegaard. Now it is awful dogshit full of philosophy buzz words

[@Catzbe]

Rip Thug Notes 😢

[@kazekagekid]

RIP Thug Notes. Typical leftist hypocrite exploiting black people, I guess.

[@kazekagekid]

RIP Thug Notes. Typical leftist exploitation of people of color.

[@wingobabingo1616]

i love how one of his chatters says "destiny sells the idea of being an intellectual" meanwhile wisecracks chat font is in Times new Roman. real nice pog

[@rationalbimbo8811]

im a musician in an alternative music scene in calfornia and this lux dude acts like basically every guy i know. listening to this convo was painful bc i know basically everyone i know would think lux was based. i hate my life

[@bluishweeg]

Yeah a lot of the leftist space is shallow dudes who think being punk-rock is an enlightening political ideology, but don't care to read books or think analytical thoughts, and think in bumper stickers and rock lyrics.

[@AspiringDevil]

It's hard to be into alt & indie rock sometimes... & Metal, & goth, & punk, or country music... Humans ruin everything I guess? Lol

[@Bilbo122333]

Hope it gets better man

[@Cixtrist]

Ah yes. The progressive perma-fried armchair philosopher musician. Definitely a California specialty 😂

[@CyberGirl1234]

I love and relate to your username

[@AnEnemyAnenome]

Destinty says wisecrack video argues against "shitty debate bro" behavior not being good to come to philosophical solutions, especially this guy who spouts off typical twitter anti destiny takes. Another guy who is apparently not that guy comes in saying Destiny is being bad faith in describing his views. Destiny uses specific examples and the guy says "I don't remember saying that but I agree with it and more". Destiny realizes this isn't even the guy he was referencing. "Who are you and why are you here then" moment. Guy calls Destiny bad faith for not representing him correctly again, rips his 23rd cig, and leaves. Destiny then looks up video with this guy and turns our he is just as bad if not worse than the other guy and constant uses vague destiny references to example bad debate behavior. What a wild ride.

[@Reesezhatena]

The wisecrack kid unironically won the debate by not engaging with anything. He proved once and for all debate is useless because no one is truly willing to engage with anything in any meaningful or substantive way. Which sucks for people like Destiny who are trying to have a real discussion

[@0redfr0g0]

By what metric are you judging Lux as having won the debate?

[@Reesezhatena]

@@0redfr0g0 the metric I’m using is the one that I provided in my comment? Like it’s mostly a joke but I literally provide the metric. Debate is useless if one or both debaters are refusing to engage with each other in any substantive way. Obviously he didn’t make that argument he lived it which is why the comment is more a joke if anything

[@blamous]

Unironically this

[@blamous]

​@@0redfr0g0as he explained - he didn't engage in the substantive part of the conversation, proving by example that the conversation was not worth having by doing all the things that he says make debates useless. If he was doing it on purpose, it's absolute gigachad meta roflstomping... But he's clearly not that smart and far more likely was floundering and using sophistry to not own any of his positions.

[@0redfr0g0]

@@blamous So...he won by showing that he was a sophist? I thought a large motivator for debate in Destiny's mind is that he wants to show a large audience that his ideas have merit and can withstand criticism...which is exactly what just happened right? Isn't there a reason a lot of comments are "I used to watch these guys years ago, wow they really fell off." Hell even the fact that we all just watched 4 hours of debate and are now debating what happened in the debate is like...the whole point?

[@aguspuig6615]

34:18 ngl its pretty impressive rethoric wise that hes able to use the word pathetic real quick, without a change in inflection, and then inmediately bring it down to ''pathetic, as in pathos related'' its pretty impressive as an off the cuff veiled insult

[@ek5273]

Wisecrack used to have really interesting content like "Thug notes" and "Earthling Cinema" when Jared was in charge. When Michael Burns took control it devolved into Breadtube brain rot

[@HeatMiserr]

I know, it sucks. I used to watch a lot of their old stuff. Used to be really interesting useful content. Surprised to see what they’ve devolved into.

[@meteorwalkergg]

Yeah sadge

[@kazekagekid]

It’s telling how they exploit people of color

[@chriscueva1866]

Jared was great, it feels like they got rid of him cause he wasn’t far left enough. He still makes good content on his own channel.

[@Imperial_Squid]

@@chriscueva1866 Jared did a stream on his channel where he goes over the timeline of how the channel was formed and why he left (it's nothing hugely spicy, mostly that they missed out on some opportunities, other people crowded the market, they failed to innovate enough and he got _massively_ burned out in the process, still worth a watch though)

[@rapaore]

"Wisecrack Director Lux" is so bad faith

[@rexvectum]

Why?

[@awsomeboy360]

Some grown ass school debater who hates online debates and use incredibly bad faith arguments are what I got from this guy

[@jamesvick6070]

People go to college for debating doesn't did not he's not smart 😅

[@mr.v8467]

Dear God -_- it is so irritating to translate someone's intellectual jargon to time and time again realize they're saying almost nothing. If you have a good argument you don't need to dance around avoiding saying anything substantial. Sam Seder is a great example of how you can use jargon and ACTUALLY make a point. You take 5 minutes to listen to Sam ramble on in a weird disjointed way but at the end HE HAS AN ACTUAL POINT he's not always right, all of his arguments aren't great but he's at least saying something. This guy just says words until you're exhausted, and at the end you're left with a gem like "it's my opinion that this thing isn't as good as this other thing" -_- so irritating

[@icareg]

Well put

[@cristinal919]

Very well said There’s a rhetorical analysis to be had within our current socioeconomic circumstances, there are ideological beliefs and people either align or don’t align and you like the N word and … My comment wasn’t as good as yours. Wisecrack is better at long form *gibberish* than I am!

[@kainoizking]

A debate champion and coach’s analysis of Destiny: “yeah idk man *nervous giggle* like I didn’t watch the whole thing *nervous giggle* I mean yeah idk *nervous giggle*”.

[@caledonk]

Gotta love these sophtist progressive guys basically just getting made that destiny doesn’t say “America bad” every day. God forbid they had a thought of their own

[@damienlmoore]

Damn, what the hell did I just watch!? Why lower yourself to even talk to this crowd? You cannot convince sophists that you too aren't a sophist because they literally cannot tell the difference.

[@RaijinProductions]

I didnt know nervous laughter was a debate tactic. He must be a pro

[@AspiringDevil]

Nervous or fake laughter needs to be added to debate pervertry

[@bartoszkrawczyk5921]

Yeah, it should absolutely be added to debate pervetry. Only issue is how to name it. I would offer a spin on Duper's delight (the unintended smile after small dopamine kick from lying) and call it "Duper's chuckle". Or "Chuckler's delight".

[@johnschauder]

Did you not hear his resume? He was a HS debater and a college debate coach…so of corse he is a pro. 😂😂

[@elproject3343]

Wisecrack is the type of Chanel where people talks a bunch and through lots of philosophical terms but at the end it feels like they are talking to each other and mirroring each others point of view. I study philosophy and these guys represent everything I DO NO want to be as a philosopher. You are doing way better Destiny.

[@helnkellrfresh2deaf]

Before clicking on the video, and during the into, I was trying to remember why i unsubscribed from Wisecrack. I'm 12 min in and it is all coming back to me.

[@ItsUhMeIbraheem]

the chat made this legitimately one of the most hilarious experiences ever

[@Defstar920]

TIL I could be a professional debate coach

[@Senorbenignhillarity]

Dude you could be top ten in the nation!

[@nickfontano9890]

"im not a big rememberer"

[@VexxatuVexx]

No wonder he's the debate master coach. "It wasn't me"

[@xerxes5785]

I genuinely think this guy lied from the very beginning. He jumps and says “Oh I love debates, my girlfriend and I constantly fight about how disagreeable I am.” But from the very moment he started talking he sounded awkward, introverted and super agreeable which is the exact opposite of how he described himself, and he constantly feel the need to justify his debating skills through out this whole conversation without actually demonstrating them. I don’t know if this is coming from a place of insecurity that he has describe himself opposite of the way he actually is or something else but by no means this is a personal attack on him, just an obvious observation.

[@xmaniack2]

How many times do you think his girlfriend gets the non-apology apology? Or hears “that’s fine, but..” or claims half way though a disagreement that he already said “my bad. Why is she still bringing this up?”. Or that he can’t remember cause he’s “a bad remember.”? Whoever she is, she needs a medal.

[@fungdark8270]

This dude preached about Socratic dialogue and somehow forgot that they mostly just dudes sitting around talking shite. The Republic literally starts with Polemarchus and crew essentially coercing Plato and Socrates to come to Cephalus’ house

[@ginxxxxx]

you seem literate, can you share of clip of destiny "winning" or looking good in any way.

[@Eridu]

​@@ginxxxxx Huh

[@skellymen2395]

​@@ginxxxxx are you okay?

[@paxelysia8202]

@@ginxxxxx “He couldnt stop insulting destiny in frustrating israel debate” from 13 days ago at time of comment on the clip channel. Hope this helps.

[@ginxxxxx]

@@paxelysia8202 after 47 secs of the video i am getting a bad feeling that destiny's master debate skills are the same as ben shapiros

[@ethakis]

Part of me thinks that Destiny should actually go back to college and earn a degree in philosophy, or history, or political science just to be able to flex that and add a bit more institutional credibility to his name. It's a bit silly, but at this point it seems like one of the few ways that he could actually head off a lot of these arguments. That said, Jordan Peterson is a PhD, and people have no problem just sweeping PhD's they disagree with under the rug. Hell, there was that discussion Destiny recently had with that history PhD who made up that bullshit about Israel planning to betray the 1948 UN partition plan.

[@danielrafferty4108]

Damn, wisecrack. A channel I gave up on close to ten years ago. It will be interesting to see how deluded their performative philosophical musings are these days

[@brianmangan15]

Makes sense that they don't respect debate. They aren't liberals. They're reds.

[@aSSGoblin1488]

i only watch that for Thug Notes(?), the classic books part playlist. its wisecrack youtube channel confirmed.

[@CoachOg2u335]

Wisecrack Director is the epitome of Bad Faith.

[@saltymcnaulty9927]

The whole "technology is different than it was when they were handing out pamplhets" argument actually lends itself to Destiny being more like the founding fathers not less. Destiny's out here being the modern day Paul Revere, but instead of a bell he's got a youtube channel. THE TANKIES ARE COMING THE TANKIES ARE COMING!

[@krishanchadda9196]

Dope. A debate about debating.

[@ant3k971]

In Audit the audit voice: "I commend Destiny's patience in this discussion, she gets A+"

[@TevelDrinkwater]

In all seriousness, Destiny's ability to ignore inflamatory remarks and stay on topic are what I've come to appreciate. All the critics of "debate as spectical" seem legit criticisms to me, and ironically Destiny and JJ McColough's discussion on the Bridges poscast a cxouple of weeks back encapsulated that so well. Destiny articulated the same things that Wisecrack is trying to, but more genuinely. Also, in Audit-The_Audit voice, "I comend Destiny for knowing his rights and firmly yet respectfully defending his position".

[@Deathwhitch]

So he's the director but not reasonable for anything in the videos not said directly by him. Got it

[@olemanyounger5040]

It needs to be pointed out. In Mel Brooks, "Blazing Saddles" almost everyone used the N word. Not just the bad guys, but the townsfolk too. Ironically, for bread tube types, the black sheriff protagonist was uneffected by the N word and performed his duties professionally with a smile. The N word had no power because it was character that was important, not ignorant labels.

[@MDoorpsy]

The real point is that Blazing Saddles isn't a documentary. Those were actors playing characters. If the claim of the Wisecrack guy is to be taken at face value, that no white person should ever say the n word, for any reason, then that goes for actors on a set, too. This is comparable to a white person singing along to a rap, because in both instances, we know from the context that the person is not necessarily using the word with racist intent, they're just quoting a black person/reading out a script.

[@DharkMode]

Wisecrack guys avoiding every question, making things up, lying, trying to be nice to deflect the entire time pretty embarassing

[@zobdog205]

"The founding fathers were actually involved in the government" You mean like every citizen of the state?

[@SDREHXC]

This dude calling himself a debate coach is like me calling myself a high schooler because I went to high school at one point in my life. If you’re like 35 you don’t get to call yourself a debate anything when the last time you debated was senior year of high school.

[@Toanleigh]

This guy is the fellow that never shuts up about being the starter quarterback...in high school. He peaked there and it's all he has.

[@Reesezhatena]

First off Debate brings awareness to a topic. Secondly even if it doesn’t change your mind it at least strengthens your opinion through applications of History and logic. Third it makes you aware of the oppositions beliefs and argumentation But most importantly in a debate you can’t just lie or make stuff up without being called out

[@cristinal919]

Very well saiiddd yeessss

[@obbymelons]

What a loser. He's just deflecting at every turn. Don't say stuff if you won't back it

[@costomame3895]

It's not wise to do crack. Destiny: Unless its your mom's!

[@ggrrm]

Thats so funny hahahah

[@jdjenk04]

Boom, gottem, roasted

[@secondengineer9814]

Honestly, this guy actually seems like he could be a pretty good interlocutor. I feel like Destiny should try to have a convo with him in maximal generosity. Go on his show and talk about other stuff for a half hour to build rapport then dig into the attack. With reciepts

[@erkkidreiak6533]

Participation Award Winning Self-proclaimed "Pro Debate Coach"*

[@chickenandksivideoreviewer9739]

Do people not know that Norman finklestien has dropped N's multiple times? Its one of the few things i respect about him

[@percilenis8464]

Holy shit. Comparison: to evaluate the similarities or dissimilarities of two or more things. Simile: to point out similarities between two or more things. Analogy: to point out a similar quality in an otherwise dissimilar thing. It’s not that fucking hard.

[@Awaken_To_0]

I swear, people seem to think Comparison just means Tautology now. Apples are just like apples cuz apples are apples.

[@Bilbo122333]

Isn’t a simile more a figure of speech than a actual comparison. ie Brave as a lion or I’m as big as a house

[@Awaken_To_0]

@@Bilbo122333 No, Simile relies on comparison to highlight the traits of the subject in an interesting way. "Her eyes are like the ocean... " as opposed to a Metaphor which does so through equation or substitution " Her eyes are a deep stormy ocean..." Simile still requires comparison else it would stop making sense. We're still saying as is the case in X, so too in Y. We're just doing so in a nonliteral subtextual sense.

[@allrequiredfields]

27:49 - that was truly, objectively some of the most evil shit I've ever heard come out of a well-intentioned mouth.

[@MegaMrASD]

1:21:06 by that logic the federalist papers where also performative because they where written for an audience to engage with specifically

[@inplfw]

Online debates can change peoples minds. For instance, I started this debate thinking that Lux was an accomplished debater and professional debate coach and I ended this debate with a higher understanding that he is a sophist that refuses to recognize his cognitive biases.

[@RossMellow]

Debate formats where you give your opponent a letter with your point in full, have them respond to it in full and send a letter back. Like the chess format where you get up to a day to make your move.

[@0redfr0g0]

So...Reddit?

[@jacobfrye996]

Destiny was too mean to Lux, specifically the "i hate people like you" about studies. I know he expected more from Lux, but he burned that bridge hard. Seems like a more level headed Destiny would have come out of this conversation helping Lux learn more about him. But also, how TF did Lux go along the whole time when they weren't even his quotes

[@aidanrock8719]

Are the entirety of the deaf Daliban coming together to gaslight me I was here the same time as everyone else and the entire vid has audio

[@garywebb2432]

they were just too early lmaoo

[@Alex-kr5vx]

As a former competitor, I am embarrassed to see this "college coach" debate. It needs to be clarified that there are three major college debate associations in America which are the National Parliamentary Debate Association, International Public Debate Association, and the Cross-Examination Debate Association (CEDA). He only represents CEDA, not the other communities. This guy is what is considered in the college debate community as a "K" debater which is short for Kritik. For context many of the major formats of college debates are about whether the U.S government should pass a policy. A Kritik is when a debater on the negative side of a topic advocating a non-state alternative to the U.S government passing policy. So how this relates to this "debate coach" is that he is way too deep on his critical theory which makes him forgo the basics of debate such as a claim, warrant, and data

[@whileistaysecluded]

“My point is that” *lights cigarette* lmfao

[@unconcernedcitizen4092]

I hate how many times I've done this. I hadn't realized how insufferable it is, and I'm so sorry to everyone.

[@whileistaysecluded]

@@unconcernedcitizen4092 dont worry, im unfortunately guilty too 😂

[@thesleepybardalwayswaiting5260]

Gaslighting destiny is a AAA teir 1 debate tactic

[@lampad4549]

Destiny's only mistake he should have watched the whole video it would made his approach in the conversation a bit better and also would look optically better towards the end, the other dude dont know why he wouldnt deny saying those things or that he wasnt in the first 35 mins of the video?

[@awsomeboy360]

I feel like EVEN if Destiny watched the whole debate the dude would still try to say "I forgot what I said", etc.

[@rrrrr.55555]

​@@awsomeboy360Yeah but now Destiny could've cornered him (like Destiny did the times the "master debater" wasn't a "rememberer" lol)

[@ericamessics5871]

debate coach couldn't stop laughing during the debate great rhetoric bro

[@nathanhargenrader645]

There is something weird that happens when people like this hear someone speak. The dude hears Hassan say that Destiny is all rhetoric and it's not that he doesn't think about it, he does. He spends a few minutes exploring the idea however it's not in a productive way at all. He doesn't stop when he hears the statement and think about whether its true or merit, that he takes at face value and assumes its true and then explores that truth. There are a ton of people like this and I always find them so frustrating.

[@MagneVikjord]

This is sounds like what’s happening

[@WhisperXK]

The amount of dishonesty going on with them is crazy. You shouldn't use slurs to hurt others, you should be able to use slurs as a common expletive as the "N-Word" has become. I personally think either everyone stops saying slurs or let everyone use slurs. At least if everyone can use them it'll lose it's meaning.

[@alexandrudin6339]

I just love watchign destiny calmly and systematically dismantle the other interlocutors arguments at every step. I feel he should lean a bit harder into holding them accountable. meaning, having them state, "ok I was wrong here"

[@BER4L4I]

He's mentioned before that he knows people want him to hold people to a fire but it immediately triggers people and halts conversations. It doesn't help that the people he debates are often unhinged from the start.

[@raindropbebop]

2-time high school debate champion says online debates are worthless.

[@Gabreyes093]

With the prevalence of algorithms reinforcing echo chambers and isolating us into ideological silos, any way in which those mental cages are cracked, be it through conversation, lectures, or watching online content, is extremely important. Especially for groups that are pushed to fringe groups that propagate misinformation or promote violence