DEBATE: What Relationship Should American Jews Have With Israel?

[@NoJusticeNoProfit24]

Mr Bernstein: You would benefit from recognizing the very telling unconscious tendency "Confession by Projection". Live and learn.

[@ahmedamin1454]

the Jewish Institute for Liberal Values' David L. Bernstein you speak of the arabic culture and Islam the way neo nazis speak of jews and judaism sir.

[@marthaworc7873]

Jews and Arabs and Christians used to live in the area that is now called Israel in total peace, surrounded by Arab countries, so I don't buy Jews and Arabs cannot live together in peace. I also believe there must be a 2 state solution.

[@JeffBerkman123]

Not true. Ottoman Empire imposed many laws and restrictions specifically against Jews and Christians - they were second class citizens, look it up. Also, there were several riots and pogroms of Arabs against Jews pre-1947.

[@JeffBerkman123]

Examples of Violence against Jews in Palestine: 1834 Safed Pogrom, 1858 Oranit Pogrom, 1895 Anti-Jewish Riots in Jaffa, and the 1929 Hebron Massacre.

[@JeffBerkman123]

Here are just some examples of how Jews were treated as second class citizens in Palestine: 1. Under the Ottoman millet system, Jews were subject to a range of discriminatory laws and regulations that restricted their rights and freedoms. Jewish men could not wear silk clothes, nor have gold jewelry, nor wear robes that dragged on the ground. 2. Jizya tax: The Ottoman Empire imposed a special tax on Jews as a form of tribute in exchange for protection. It was a clear indication of the subordinate status of non-Muslims within the empire. 3. Land ownership restrictions: Jews faced limitations on land ownership under Ottoman rule. This hindered their ability to acquire and develop property, which in turn affected their economic and social standing. 4. Legal and social restrictions: Non-Muslims were subject to various legal and social restrictions that affected their daily lives, such as limitations on clothing, building houses of worship, and participating in certain professions. They couldn't build new synagogues or repair old ones. A Muslim could marry a Jewish woman, but a Jewish man could not marry a Muslim woman.

[@marthaworc7873]

Nobody is living under the Ottoman empire anymore. Argument is null and void.

[@mauinix4563]

Why is this narrative that everything was peaceful before the creation of Israel so pervasive in the conversations about the conflict today?! I hear it every time I watch a debate on the conflict

[@ZenZaragoza]

The main difference is that Palestinian nationalism doesn't distinguish its nationals based on religion! Conflating Judaism with Israelism is patently false, particularly when the constitutions proclaims citizenship based on religion only. Just because your mother lost her home in Iraq doesn't morally justify your stealing a Palestinian home.

[@diegomattia4806]

Exactly so.

[@marthaworc7873]

That can not be said enough times.

[@jamesolam4487]

Hamas is not Islamic? Palestinian Islamic Jihad is not Islamic? Can you name one Christian leader that is part of the Palestinian nationalist movement?

[@diegomattia4806]

You pose a challenge impossible to meet: naming a leader of Palestine. Yet, Palestine's absence as a recognized state is not due to its non-existence but the overshadowing dominance of Israel. Its leadership isn't merely a political entity but a symbol of resistance against an oppressive regime. It's a response born from the collective suffering inflicted predominantly on Muslims, the majority in the region. To demand accountability from a leadership under such circumstances is to ignore the root cause. Grant them the right to self-determination, akin to what your state enjoys, before questioning their leadership. Until then, silence serves as a more fitting response than perpetuating the role of a puppet for an abhorrent system of oppression. @@jamesolam4487

[@diegomattia4806]

I regret to inform you that your statement reflects a grave misunderstanding and misrepresentation of both history and contemporary global affairs. These were 30 minutes of invented history. I hope you are just a troll and not an American citizen, because if you are you represent with your absolute ignorance the reasons and the causes of why the Western civilization is going downhill and unable to defend itself against the rise of dictatorships all over the world. Keep siding with your enemies and inform yourself on KZbin instead of going to school....intelligent man! :) @@jamesolam4487

[@TheDaveBarronBand]

It has to be true that many great numbers of Palestinians are descended from Jewish people. And there are clearly many genetic ingredients in Jews as there is even with the two people speaking here. It Could not be more plain. There are even Etheopian Jews - though shamefully, they are treated badly. There are Ginger Jews too which is quite anomolous for supposed Asians. So there is no basis for unique ethnicity. So, lets compare the logic of a common ancestry going back to Abraham (which the Arabs share sinultaneously). All Europeans are related to Charlmagne. Should we all claim that we are Holy Romans and fight for the kaiser's wreath? Do the English have a right to invade Saxony and reclaim ancestral lands? No. Quite simply. Because everything is transient. Nothing stays the same. And the entire planet is here for all not for just one section of humanity - which this section in particular needs to re join. By virtue of being human , we are all related. As an aside, I find it highly compelling that Abraham and Brahman are very similar names which both have 'Ra' in their contruction. Simultaneously , they both had wives called Sarah who was introduced as a sister not a wife for expedience at the time. Combine that with the elitist nature of both Hinduism and Judasim alongside the amount of Hebrew place names in India, the amount of Indian names ending in 'il' which could easily be a corrpution of 'el' therein could lie the solution to this puzzle. I agree with the first chap speaking entirely. Zionism does hurt Jews. I loathe antisemitism but zionism is antisemetic. Ultimately we are human and we need to live and let live. Human history has been one long Holocaust from the Irish to the native Americans to the Jews to the armenians to the Iraqis to the Palestinians. And for WHAT?! WHAT?! Physical / material gains are in utter violation of what religion and spirituality is about which is universal love. The pain all victims have endured has to be seen as martyrdom and in the honour of all these, IT HAS TO STOP!

[@WeTheBlackSheep]

Excellent points all around!

[@TheDaveBarronBand]

Thank you @@WeTheBlackSheep

[@GreekRican]

JAKE IS ON POINT

[@WeTheBlackSheep]

Thank you! 🥰

[@gotosave]

Wow .. very informative !! I never know that !! I learn from Jack a lot

[@WeTheBlackSheep]

Glad it was helpful!

[@GreekRican]

JAKE IS SO RIGHT AND CUTE

[@MeleanDialogue]

Jake is obviously a nice and rational guy. What planet does the other guy come from?

[@snizami]

Seriously some of the things he said are so unbelievably racist.

[@carolinespigelski8888]

Jake - what can I say, I agree 100% with you on all points - seems so obvious!!! LOL...thank you for putting this information out there 🙏

[@WeTheBlackSheep]

Thank you so much!!!

[@marwar819]

Any religion that believes and promotes the nonsense that they are god's favored people is asking for trouble.

[@janegardener1662]

Thank you for this debate. I have watched Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro's lectures about the difference between Judaism and Zionism and found them enlightening.

[@WeTheBlackSheep]

Thank you for watching!

[@lesweizman388]

and why do you believe anything that shapiro says are you aware that he is a member of the satmar sect, yet pretends not to be? what proofs does he bring down that supports any of his claims

[@cestmoifu1406]

Interesting that closing a gulf is an act of war when it comes to Israel/ Egypt. what do you think that laying total siege and shutting down essentially an entire border of Gaza is in the eyes of the Palestinians? Is this not war??? Again, is that not an act of war? Palestinians decided to wage a total war in response to the 6D level war they were alreadty in. The economic siege was still in active... a declaration of war, for 16 - 17 years in Gaza. Gaza & the Palestinian people were already at war on October 6th. On October 7th they decided to respond. With full force. If your claim that closing a gulf is an act of war (which I dont deny) then there's no doubt that laying siege to the entire Gaza Strip by the Israeli occupation force is indeed an act of war and the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves!

[@thedoctor.a.s1401]

You tell him joshua

[@ljubomirkopac94]

Compliments to both for polite and civilised debate - very interesting to watch from non -Jewish (and non - American) position. I understand more David's position, because it is much more common around us, also among other ethnicities and is often called patriotism, although can be also seen as light version of nationalism. However, I admire more Jake's point, because it shows intellectual and personal courage. Unfortunately, very rare, for now (again, I am not limiting this to Jews). Generally, it is easy to explain nationalism, because we are basically week and need something bigger to identify with - that helps in creating self confidence. And the idea of "keeping the race clean" ... doesn't is sounds familiar? Just one more comment, to something that David exposed with (understandable) great enthusiasm. It is more or less recognised by everybody that Jews are extraordinarily talented people and that they greatly contributed positively to humanity. The world would be different (worse) place without that. However, my feeling is that these were mostly Jews outside Israel and mostly people with non-Zionist positions.

[@WeTheBlackSheep]

Thank you for your encouraging feedback!!! I agree with David that people who happened to be Jews have contributed greatly to humanity and we would be worse off without them. However, I would disagree with him that their “Jewishness” generally had much to do with those contributions. Ashkenazi happen to be a high IQ population, so this is an easy to explain coincidence. And you are right that wanting to keep the “race” clean is a horribly racist perspective. And it’s not just racist against others, the in-breeding has led to horrible consequences for Jews themselves; see the existence of Tay Sachs disease. - Jake

[@nancyiaj]

🫡🔥💯

[@marthaworc7873]

80% of peoples' opinions? I doubt that.

[@WeTheBlackSheep]

It’s not particularly surprising given support for interracial marriage is now at 94%, up from only 4% at the beginning of the 1960’s: news.gallup.com/poll/354638/approval-interracial-marriage-new-high.aspx

[@Le0mas]

I was uncomfortable with the anti-zionist and wondered why... then he said he likes Rand and it all became clear😂

[@Lurch685]

That’s not an argument