DEBATE with a chatter over my "dangerous" ideas

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[@CH4R10T_TV]

For someone so obsessed with optics and bigotry, this person sure feels comfortable telling an entire demographic of a minority community what's good for them. It doesn't come off particularly self-aware. I'm trans, if I want to make an educated, informed decision to keep a firearm I don't think I should be treated to this special flavor of paternalistic sealioning about my own potential mental well-being. We're not even the only demographic of person with an inflated suicidality level and we certainly aren't even close to being the most likely to die by gun violence in particular. But even if we were, frankly this is How Not To Talk To Minorities 101.

[@uli11]

I feel like this is an entire hour of someone screaming plainly "I've never been a victim of a hate crime and have no concept of the experience of those victims!" I wanted him to shut his mouth five minutes in.

[@calebharris292]

I didn't know what sealioning meant and my mind went to you flop toward someone and yell WARK WARK

[@stabbymcpokey5901]

@@calebharris292 same

[@RJCain]

@@calebharris292 That's the based sealioning. I'll let the minorities decide how best to advocate for their rights. I'll WARK WARK at the bigots when they come with the ropes.

[@dblock20]

@@uli11 exactly

[@Mr.Silence.]

This caller is basically the frog in the slowly heating pot of water, vaush is saying jump out or you'll die and he's just repeating "yikes I don't really think we're at that point yet yunno, maybe if you didn't talk in such extremes I might jump out but I dunno, if I stay in here and be calm the chef might turn the heat down yunno?"

[@Star-pl1xs]

im stealing this one

[@rainbowkrampus]

And just like the frog in the actual experiment, the caller has had his brain removed.

[@Noschool100]

tbf jumping out would only make the person boiling more pissed, better to stay in the pot and hope he changes his mind

[@peeeetah87]

@@Noschool100 Or. You could be a frog with a gun.

[@derdurstbursch]

I'm only at 22 mins rn but he seems to be reasonable and respectful though

[@uli11]

Hot take- this guy is exactly the kind of person who would have been against black liberation and civil rights in the 60s because of the "unrest" it "causes"...

[@uli11]

Unequivocally- this guy's beliefs, and him by proxy, are contributing to the harm done to marginalized people.

[@uli11]

Final thought: this shitstain better be eager and willing to be a human shield putting himself between Trans people and far right militias when they come to mow us down. If you talk like this- you better be willing to be the first to die.

[@Bravepotato1]

So you think the violence black people felt in the 60s is equivalent to the treatment of trans people in 2022?! You reductionist fool.

[@end.olives]

Yes of course, ill state a totally speculative thing with no basis on nothing but "thats what i think" to label a guy i dont agree with racism. Because thats all i can do when im a mouth breather. I love vauch but his community is so goddamn insuferable, all u guys can do is call everyone reprehensible labels. Like srsly wtf is wrong with u all... Is it a university thing? Vauch also calls people nazis for nothing too. I guess in your minds youre wrecking the argument lol. To me it just sounds that youre mentally unnable to argument things besides just calling people nazis racists or whatever... And almost always for nothing too which deturpates the horror and the cruelty of the concepts the words truly should represent, as they were... just sickening.

[@end.olives]

I really try to emphatize with u lefties, but most of you are just consumed by a very much larger intelectual monster and just cant really understand the nature of things nor how to change them besides demonizing stuff u dont like by characterizing then in the worst light possible as the "ultimate cheat" which obviously dont work, since nobody literally gives a shit anymore and you've just blown that economy out of proportion

[@chocolatedoughnut1305]

Vaush: I think it’s generally a good thing for mentally healthy trans people to own guns This guy: so how do you define genocide

[@General_Tso762]

I'm not a leftist but I completely agree with this.

[@verager2493]

He agreed it's a genocide right off. It's even worse. Guess we need to sit down and let the white knights handle it

[@Kuhanapomaranca]

@@General_Tso762 maybe you should be a leftist

[@AB-zl4nh]

The US Civil Rights biggest legal & economic achievements were not because of guns.

[@verager2493]

@@AB-zl4nh Who are you arguing with, that said that?

[@Ojja78]

Vaush: I advocate drinking water to stay hydrated. Caller: Why do want people to starve? If people only drink water, then they're going to starve.

[@millennialmongoose3392]

This conversation: "Have you tried being less mean and problematic?" "Yes, it doesn't work" "......could you try again" "No."

[@AB-zl4nh]

If a White/Euro-American is ignorant to structural racism then a Black/Afro-American can be too. Vaush is demanding ethnic minorities to be more educated on discrimination & that's unfair. All must be treated equal & be expected to learn.

[@eXcommunicate1979]

@@AB-zl4nh I don't know how a black American can't be aware of structural racism when it is directed at them almost everyday. One can be more insulated against it by attaining a higher economic class, but even then the structural racism encountered during the attainment has got to be less than subtle. I think if a black man cannot sense the structural racism inherent in our cultural environment, then he must be neurodivergent (understandable), an idiot, or benefiting in some way (immoral).

[@briankochanski1442]

“Why should I get car insurance? I’m not at the point of needing it.”

[@luna-p]

Good one. And that is a conservative argument - "I don't need affordable healthcare, I'm healthy!"

[@vesaryn]

"They don't want you dead, they just want to strip you of all your rights and socially ostracize you!" ...what does he think happens to people with no rights who are socially ostracized?

[@jordanwilson4735]

Vaush specifically advocates for the ostracization of right wingers

[@cr-nd8qh]

They die and commit crime

[@savannarbananar]

@@cr-nd8qhthey die _and_ commit crime? How? With their ghosts? The Great Polter-heist!

[@hatientacetlen4246]

They're not trying to kill you. They're just saying the things you do should be crimes and that those crimes should carry the death sentence. Totally different from wanting you dead.

[@herb4n7egend]

@@savannarbananarduh, they all become terrorists

[@theorangeninja6486]

"never stick up for yourself ever, they'll beat you up harder if you do that" - this absolute lump

[@uli11]

This is a perfect example of when the "eye for an eye makes the world blind" mindset turns cancerous. His brain is completely rotten.

[@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869]

This Kenny guy has definitely been shoved in a locker

[@AB-zl4nh]

If a White/Euro-American is ignorant to structural racism then a Black/Afro-American can be too. Vaush is demanding ethnic minorities to be more educated on discrimination & that's unfair. All must be treated equal & be expected to learn.

[@theorangeninja6486]

@@AB-zl4nh what are you talking about

[@miskatonic_alumni]

@@AB-zl4nh Would you like some ham with that spam?

[@christianna4404]

You don't wait to buy fire insurance until after your house is already on fire.

[@42percenthealth]

Imagine spending money on fire insurance when you're not even on fire tho.

[@VeProducctions]

Wow, what a truly terrible analogy. Fire insurance is to help rebuild, your house will burn whether you have it or not. If you truly believe that stockpiling guns will increase your odds of survival in a pogrom, think again. Nazi Germany had incredibly liberal gun laws but Kristallnacht still happened.

[@kingpest13]

I do... Did.

[@reverseaimbot2509]

*dying of cancer and is on death bed, seconds to live* “damn I really should do chemotherapy” *dies*

[@herb4n7egend]

the game of life taught us this. well, some of us

[@jugganaut26]

This chatter exemplifies what I find really frustrating about liberals.

[@YokaiX]

What I learned from this is, having Liberal fans isn't so bad... until they show up like this to remind you why they're still annoying, naive, fascist enabling, Libtards; not reliable as comrades.

[@nobleradical2158]

I hate the fact that he can’t actually spit in it his point directly. He keeps going “don’t you see…” instead of just making an argument.

[@ilyana1126]

I’ve bonded with Conservatives at the shooting range over our shared interest in guns. It gives us something to talk about, a shared interest. It also broke a stereotype that Conservatives have, that people on the Left are anti-guns. If you break one stereotype, that is an opportunity to break more and reach common ground. That the chatter can’t imagine that happening is very telling.

[@nickelbutt]

You are 100% right. It’s so sad how often the left actively debates this point.

[@nathanpapp432]

The guy has a point. When your message is, "Buy guns because conservatives are coming to put you in camps." You arent going to win over many conservatives, or rational centrists for that matter.

[@Dazzle-Delight]

It just sounds a lot like tone policing and fear of upsetting people's feelings. That just does more harm than good. Plus this guy didn't really offer any real solutions of his own on how fix any of the concerns he's talking about. A lot of "I don't like this" and "I don't like that", "don't do this" or "stop doing that". Like okay dude we get it that you personally don't like it when Vaush is mean to conservatives or recommends people buys guns, but complaining about his rhetoric when the problem of creeping fascism is more real than ever does nothing to solve the growing hatred from far right nutjobs taking over the Republican Party, thus inching closer to their real goal of cruelty and oppression against marginalized groups they don't like.

[@General_Tso762]

Far right nutjobs taking over the Republican party lol. Personal responsibility, freedom, anti war/foreign intervention, free speech, right to self defense, decentralization. That is the "nutjobs" your talking about dude....

[@MrHodoAstartes]

Yeah. The straight white lib whinging was strong with him. Rightoids don't even understand what bottoms are.

[@FelisImpurrator]

That's because it is. It is literally just people being uncomfortable with impoliteness and thinking that appeasement works to stop unprompted aggression.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@Ass_of_Amalek Bigotry against what? Against whom? Death cultists?

[@therandomoguy3809]

Mean to conservatives, that's a nice dumbing down his literal call to arms to a group who famously commit suicide at an increased rate, maybe it's a problem to encourage that group to have the thing that's then also most commonly used for suicide and unironically say but it's for the militias that aren't there, it's possibly irresponsible at best, actively being a factor to create higher rates of suicide to the group he claims to be preparing to defend with said arms at worst. The guys feelings about it being bad have evidence of suicide likelihood statistics involved, vaush can point at two incidents of militias in many many years, in a country that's recently has THE president call out said groups, saying we are on the brink of roaming militias to target minorities is again as best irresponsible

[@mally6101]

this guy really said "leftism is when NO fun and absolutely NO JOKES 😤"

[@christianna4404]

This guy sounds like he personally advised Hillary Clinton's campaign on all their worst decisions.

[@michaelwerkov3438]

And like he asked them permission to wreckkkk vaush

[@rawbebaba]

Lol nah he sounds like HE WISHES he advised her campaign lol

[@goldenmemes51]

Sounds super white as well lmao

[@IAMSONICTH3H3DG3H0G]

@@goldenmemes51 how do you sound white

[@catrielmarignaclionti4518]

@@IAMSONICTH3H3DG3H0G listen to a black person, and then a white person, it does sound diferent

[@faestark4898]

This dude: "not to lib out but..." Proceeds to lib out for an hour straight

[@mikeyfisher4256]

Bro libbed out from the start.

[@Stable_Genius]

With pearls firmly clutched in his hands.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

He's libbing all over the debate

[@Nersius]

Cut a lib, a fascist bleeds.

[@EyeonthePrize247]

@@Stable_Genius Those pearls were crushed into dust, lol.

[@pocketzed3481]

I'm trans and I've had too many bouts of serious depression to trust myself with a gun. That makes me nervous sometimes, but then I remember the time I thought there was someone trying to break into my house - I called my friend/neighbor and he showed up 10 seconds later, armed. That's a ride-or-die ally right there.

[@Fluttersniper]

“Don’t you think it’s a little extreme to shoot at the nazis with guns when they shoot at us with guns?” NO. I DON’T.

[@Saurawr]

"Shouldn't we wait until Nazis are marching down the streets with guns and putting people in camps before we begin the process to start to consider the possibility of the option of debating the efficaccy of thinking about perhaps purchasing (but perhaps not) a knife, and following a means testing of that procedure embark on the endeavor to examine charts about having guns?" No "Doesn't that sound a little crazy though?" No "Uh... okay then... that sounds extreme"

[@BaronVonQuiply]

The rising possibility of Nazis shooting at me is the reason why I own guns.

[@whiscashofficial9325]

When they go low, we go high or something. Liberals need to understand that it won’t stop them from killing you

[@WiiFan20XX]

Does he actually say that?

[@mcnoodles3010]

Timestamp?

[@dblock20]

I think what pisses me off the most about the conversations that Vaush has with liberals over topics like this is that "liberals" like this guest, will complain to Vaush about his rhetoric, (which is very similar to movements like the Black Panthers) but will never try to speak to conservatives who push the GOP rhetoric and/or complain to them.

[@siaj92]

Well It’s simple, they know most of The conservatives won’t listen

[@lucasb.v.9348]

@@siaj92 That's part of the irony, right? Exactly because they won't listen to dialog it's necessary to prepare for the worse.

[@michaelwerkov3438]

@@siaj92 lol. I had to do a double take before it sunk in that you had a european last name. I kept thinking it said "bucko" and that it was a jordan peterson reference

[@trianglemoebius]

​@@siaj92 No, it's that they know Vaush isn't likely to physically attack them, or group them into the untermensch thus depriving them of safety. They want to be seen doing *something*, but don't have the balls to do it to anyone who could and would actually harm them. "I'll fight for people, as long as this 'fighting' thing doesn't inconvenience me in any way!"

[@marthancrowl1674]

A minute in, and I’m already losing brain cells. “You should learn how to use guns to defend yourself.” “UhM, WelL D!d yOu KNoW SuiCidal pEoPLE EXIST!?”

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

As someone who is suicidal, *I fucking hate this logic.* I have a right to healthcare and a right to my own life, regardless of if it's to end it or keep it going. And everyone around me has a right to self defense. You want to help me? *Get me Healthcare or give me something to live for.* Taking away my right to die and other's rights to defend themselves doesn't do shit for my mental health. This is how people get locked away in abusive situations where they have no control over their own lives where they're just being kept alive, not ACTUALLY being treated. anti-conflict, not anti-abuse and anti-death but not pro-health.

[@kevinjohnanand]

​@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty you can be both pro-healthcare and anti giving suicidal people guns.

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

@@kevinjohnanand except people seem to be a WHOLE HELL of lot more likely to vote based on guns than healthcare. And the amount of reactionary shit I've seen about guns. I legit had a conversation with a woman who compared a dog eating a white chocolate peanut butter bar to a toddler getting ahold of a gun. It's not even CLOSE. And frankly, just like abortion it's my right to decide what happens to my body. Just because you don't like it because "death bad" doesn't mean it's not something I should be allowed to do, especially as a grown woman. That being said, I'm on both birth control AND anti-depressants for a reason. I don't WANT to exercise those rights unless I feel I HAVE to, so stop trying to take away my options and start giving me better ones. Forcing others to live miserably because you're uncomfortable with THEIR suffering rather than just giving them a better life is peak controlling behavior.

[@hysloth3137]

@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty sorry you're suicidal, chatter says your life and opinion don't matter /s

[@hysloth3137]

@@kevinjohnanand this is the point... . . This is your head

[@Retorix303]

I never realized defending ourselves collectively against a tyrannical government was a conservative ideal. Fuck me.

[@pchavez8833]

That’s the thing though, trans people can’t really defend themselves collectively. That’s why this narrative that trans people need to buy guns is just dumb and more harmful than helpful.

[@Necroskull388]

@@ceptonte It's funny, you would call the Nazis LARPers all the way up until, during, and after they killed tens of millions of people. Very funny. You're a very funny and not at all serious human being.

[@melaniey.5596]

Specially when it is passing legislation that actively targets minorities like trans people (or not actually minorities like the ban on abortions that target women) while literally terrorism threats are being made against those groups...

[@jackiealexander92530]

@@ceptonte keep crying

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@@ceptonte Probably not feeling like a larp in Russia right now, huh?

[@sunnijo]

Regarding the guest’s point about black conservatives: does the guest think it’s inherently racist to acknowledge race at all? That’s the impression I’m getting from him. The vibe I’m getting from the guest is that he’s just getting into left-wing ideas and is overly influenced by twitter leftists. My guy, I promise you that people outside the internet aren’t nearly as uptight about language as chronically online leftists. Vaush’s slightly edgy language gives a sense of authenticity to regular people just learning about leftist ideas. It’s literally part of his appeal. The left needs all types if we want to grow as a movement. All this tone policing just excludes people.

[@IMelkor42]

How something 'looks' is of prime importance to this guy. It doesn't matter that the particular person you're calling stupid, is indeed stupid, and you don't think they're stupid *because* they're black. But optically, you're calling a black person stupid, and that's a no-no.

[@Ar1AnX1x]

you need balance for everything caring that much about optics is not good specially when you exclude someone that agrees with you on policy over optics that's not how you grow

[@SS-xr7jf]

Yeah I got major ‘we have to be race blind/ I don’t see race’ Vibes when he was talking about that.

[@LDIndustries]

Perfect counter to the majority of this guy’s jabs would be saying “you’re enabling the abusive behavior of conservatives by hand wringing about my optics”. He’s engaging in the same tactics that people do to downplay when someone is abused by a partner. That our behavior is what is actually the cause of the abuse as opposed to the abuser’s willingness to abuse.

[@kandices]

As someone who was vehemently on the right until this past year …… I appreciate your point of view for real. It was the blatantly racist boomers & your pov that brought me over the line. Thank u 🙏🏼 Also appreciate your 2a thing …. Because as a woman, a 9mm Saved. My. Life. Once. From an sa & certain death. I KNOW how well that thing can protect you in dire need. Also. Psa. Ppl will commit s anyway. The fact that dude could say; with a straight face, he doesn’t want me / us to protect ourselves from literal nazis because ppl may unalive themselves …… is wild to me

[@stang9806]

saying that people will just commit suicide anyways as a rebuttal feels super gross

[@MrHodoAstartes]

@@stang9806 It's true, though. The statistics are just skewed against guns there because they are super easy to use for the purpose and will be used, if not purchased for the explicit reason. They can't make you want to do it. They are just convenient. Trains don't service your house.

[@dwhoker8284]

@@MrHodoAstartes people who want to kill themselves are by no means guaranteed to do it, guns make the path from wanting to kill yourself to successfully killing yourself very quick and easy and appear relatively painless, like people are more likely to unalive themselves if it's just a button press away and present at all times In their house. So ye it does make killing yourself more likely. even with that though I still think minorities/left leaning people generally, who can handle firearms, should be armed and ready to defend themselves when shit hits.

[@asherroodcreel640]

The way you type scares me

[@stang9806]

@@MrHodoAstartes it’s just the type callousness you expect out of conservatives is all

[@LDIndustries]

This guy definitely gassed himself up before the debate and thought HE would be the one to get a concession out of Vaush. Considering he didn’t have any actual arguments and just kept saying “don’t you seeeeeeeeeeee…?” this guy has always won arguments through guilting people. I love how he said “not to lib out on you” but did nothing but appeal to identity, civility, and bad optics.

[@nackskott12]

I think it's kind of telling about people's own mental state when they're basically arguing “well if it comes to that, why wouldn't you just game-end?” People who argue against sensible gun ownership literally can't imagine fighting for their life because if things got too scary they'd just give up, and project that onto everyone else. I'm sorry chatter is in a bad place, but encouraging self-defense is actually more likely to give people hope as opposed to “run or die.”

[@FelisImpurrator]

I mean, their entire political ideology is built on anxiety-driven appeasement behavior. What do you expect? That's the fawn response in a nutshell. People thinking they can just "keep sweet" and the instigators of unprovoked, targeted violence will leave them alone. Unfortunately, while it is true that no people are inherently evil or motivated by essentially bad character, it is also true that Republicans are a fucking death cult and that it's functionally impossible to reason with cultists until and unless they break free of the cult.

[@nackskott12]

@@FelisImpurrator One of the truest comments I've read in months, you've hit it on the head 👍

[@ethan6627]

armchair therapist cringe

[@nackskott12]

@@ethan6627 Explain to me where exactly the “s*icide is a bigger threat than gen*cide” take comes from then? He admitted things could get to that level, but that it wouldn't be worth owning a firearm for self-defense because they'd probably harm themselves instead of self-defense. Where does that come from other than 1) the bigoted assumption that trans people wouldn't bother fighting to live, or 2) projection based off their own mental weakness? I can't imagine another explanation for that sort of belief.

[@pissfather6798]

@@ethan6627 i mean theyre right

[@aceofsharks9837]

To say that dude was optimistic/unaware to a dangerous degree would be like saying Space is kinda big.

[@asherroodcreel640]

It's not that large

[@WiloPolis03]

"What would you define as gen0cide?" *chat freaks out* "Because I would define what's going on now as gen0cide." *chat relaxes*

[@verager2493]

Except he wants us to lay back and take it

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

If you agree to the premise of a valid argument then you inescapably accept the conclusion. I thought he was going to spend his time arguing about whether there's a genocide taking place.

[@tsims093]

“Not to lib out on you…” Libs out

[@goldsea1678]

“A wise king never seeks out war. But should always be prepared for it.”

[@grimmrgoodbar6401]

This callers continued use of “yikes-y” tells you everything you need to know about this debate

[@hibarikyoya854]

As someone who somewhat uses yiksey frequently we do not claim him

[@Sustenance21]

"Can you not see..." is now my most hated phrase. Thanks!

[@dyer4677]

If this dude got more hand wring-y he'd be yanking off fingers christ.

[@maxgustafsson7802]

This is a new insuult, I like it

[@maxgustafsson7802]

This is a new insuult, I like it

[@LDIndustries]

@rambunctiousvegetable That the chatter is so caught up in the worry that how Vaush says things will offend sensibilities he forgets to actually think about what is being said. The amount of times Vaush ends a statement and the guy just says “yeah I guess” is all the evidence you need to prove that.

[@JSmusiqalthinka]

20:45 "You're outing people as dumb" The way this guy reaches, he must be Mr. Fantastic's alter ego.

[@DarkEyedBlues]

"I agree with what you're saying, I just don't want you to say it."

[@spectrephantom607]

Liberal word police is here guys,these guys will walk themselves and us into the burning fire and tell us not to struggle because it upsets the vibes

[@ralphcoryeaiv3963]

“I see your arguments but I just can’t wrap my head around-“ okay so it’s clear this guy has no counter argument is just complacent at this point

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

You look really good in that pp man

[@young9534]

56:00 he talked earlier how most gun deaths are suicides and then talks about how Japan basically has no gun deaths because they banned them. But Doesn’t Japan have a crazy high suicide rate? Seems like those gun laws aren’t great at preventing people from killing themselves

[@zacheryeckard3051]

I've tried to have this argument with many, many liberals. They are utterly unwilling to entertain the conversations.

[@enlightenednormie242]

Summary : Chatter- "Vaush Alarmism" Vaush - "Nuanced Alarmism Justified" Chatter-.......

[@strayy1554]

Chatter: mkay

[@trianglemoebius]

@@strayy1554 More like Chatter: I do not have a response, so I'm going to bring up self-die. Again.

[@Dr.depression516]

"In this debate I advocate for buying the G word. Biiiig ones hard AR. We should do this to show our interlocutors that their munitions don't impress us. That their militias do no not frighten or intimidate us. . ."

[@markd.s.8625]

my brain unhelpfully provided "GENGAR" when reading this

[@pixeldeath5846]

This entire conversation consisted of "You're wrong" but also "you're right".

[@trashgaming3756]

This guy doesn't own a fire extinguisher because he is waiting for his house to be on fire first

[@FrostXFire]

Tone-policing man got his back blown out in minute 5 getting shown that being a civil lib and not wanting to offend the Repubs is useless because they'll hate us no matter what we do. The rest of the debate was just a spiral of him refusing to just concede that he hasn't actually thought any of his points through beyond "but this makes me feeeeeeeeel bad and might make us loooooook bad wah wah ;(".

[@Eyrie007]

The entire argument here was "I don't like your tone". Ok, cool random dude.

[@LimeyLassen]

Can tell someone spends every waking moment on Twitter from the way they talk

[@Rhodair]

17:30 "don't you see how people could be turned off by hearing you say something like that" this boy came on just to tell Vaush he's not using enough euphemisms 🙃

[@Derchlands]

This guy doesn't understand "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

[@alexandredesouza3692]

Sorry, Vaush, but the Chatter is absolutely right on this one. You're ideas are extremely dangerous. I've seen you describe how you fix your car.

[@josh-oo]

Hasn't he said he doesn't fix his own car because he knows he doesn't have the skills and/or knowledge required to do so, and he's man enough to admit it?

[@jackiealexander92530]

Not me about to reply all salty 😂😂

[@Sotryn_Fox]

*insert they really had us in the first half meme here*

[@MatPost]

Moderates in politics (centrists/centre-leaning) have shown time-to-time again that they aren't excluded from having a hollowed idealistic belief that is not only devoid of any pragmatism but their solution can also lead to the consolidation of power led by right-wingers.

[@ZachRM95]

Isnt the guy debating Vaush a leftist? Majority of moderates are for pro responsible gun ownership especially for minority communities.

[@jascu4251]

This is a great point, I think in some ways self-described 'centrists' are often too in thrall to the idea of centering without really realising that they are replicating what the left and right are both prone to. The "I'm not on a team team", which is often just as anti-pragmatic as any other ideology (ie they want people to compromise with them, they have no plans to compromise themselves!)

[@jascu4251]

@@Ass_of_Amalek Well isn't the description of ANY political group which doesn't believe in compromise?

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

Centrists and conservatives both defend the status quo. Centrists concern troll and gaslight people who actually want change. So they benefit the right that wants to maintain institutional power and social hierarchies.

[@jascu4251]

@@unslaadkrosis3489 Conservatives don't want to maintain the status quo! They have big plan

[@scifisyko]

“But don’t you think it’s bad that X?” “No.” “Okay but don’t you think it’s bad that Y?” “No.” “Okay but…”

[@matthewdavis3014]

This guy was insufferable. He made me feel sympathetic to the conservatives who complain about thought police and timid finger wagging

[@redneckcommie]

This is purely anecdotal but my dad keeps a plate carrier full of mags and ar15 next to his bed at all times in preparation for “when the shooting starts” because Dan bongino said so. Vaush is 100% right about them being prepared for decades

[@888fluffy]

I don't think this guy understands. If vaush was less controversial on the left, he would not be a more effective public figure. Vaush is purposely appealing to the section of the left that has progressive social and economic values, but are put off by soap box virtue rhetoric. Vaush himself thinks this rhetoric is damaging to the left, and purposely cultivates his audience to recognise and reject it. If he were to become more preachy and virtuous, he would not only lose the audience he has, he would start competing with the other leftists who already appeal to the more preachy virtuous types.

[@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869]

My problem with Kenny's argument is that it's more of a feelings over facts thing

[@weebgrinder-AIArtistPro]

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary." - Karl Marx

[@spectrephantom607]

This guy is living in some beautiful fantasy

[@lordiromusic8550]

Bro might have actually been the most annoying chatter he's ever debated

[@robbiekop7]

Vaush loves low hanging fruit 🍎🍎🍌🍊🍋🍑🍐🍈..that's why

[@jackiealexander92530]

@@robbiekop7 and we love it too

[@DUWANGlai_kangyi]

@@robbiekop7 the low-hanging fruit comes to him tho...

[@matomask3574]

Vaush: I'm sorry, I can't be your comfort streamer.

[@indoorpark6577]

I would like to personally thank this guy for so thoroughly explaining what a wokescold is.

[@clovergamingssbu3287]

It's been 10 minutes and this guy has yet to tell us how preparing is bad... edit: halfway in and I'm realizing this guy is literally just speed running every bad criticism of Vaush that there has been lmao

[@ZoeySaysTransRights]

So a huge part of this arrugment is essentially just civility politics. The positions matter less than the way in which they are delivered. Beta stuff.

[@uli11]

Let's not forget a good sprinkling of "vote harder" thrown in.

[@b00psn00t]

You just described how debates work

[@ZoeySaysTransRights]

@@b00psn00t Do you have a study to support that claim?

[@grizzleknowsbest]

Don't try to cover your face or fight back when they're punching you..... that will only make them punch you harder

[@d0ntfeedphil447]

I can smell the liberal off of him through the screen

[@nackskott12]

Whatever the voice equivalent of phrenology is betrays his I'm With Her bumper sticker

[@Daydream355]

This dude is just way too soy.

[@camdenquick6071]

I literally had a conservative teacher in highschool tell me that our side has guns and your side doesn't because i said something mean about Trump.

[@luna-p]

I hope you reported them because that was a direct threat. And then I hope you got 5 guns.

[@miskatonic_alumni]

And that is why anti-gun libs are spineless cowards that should be ignored.

[@Ellipsis115]

Woah, a chatter thinks Vaush is dangerous?!? No way!

[@Grim_Dank_Future]

My god this guy is the personification of everything I can't stand about liberals, and I am a liberal. Thank you for calling this shit out Vaush.

[@Scooter_Alice]

DON'T YOU SEE

[@Gloomdrake]

😑

[@eldritchhero8120]

She is dead! Smoking on that Queen pack.

[@slowloris2894]

I DIDNT DO IT BUT I WISH I DID

[@eldritchhero8120]

@@slowloris2894 Based

[@d0ntfeedphil447]

Irish Dark Brandon strikes again

[@system0fadowner251]

Rest in piss she won't be missed. Now if Kissenger or Cheney could just croak then my 2022 will be pretty damn positive.

[@Necroskull388]

I'm lighting up a nice cigar tomorrow in her dishonor.

[@gabbie07]

Just listening to him talk made me grow out a wrinkled tumor that says "I'm still with her"

[@Razgriz09]

Just right from the beginning, haven't we been here before? I swear I've heard this exact argument recently.

[@rawbebaba]

Okay and then he called Tim Pool a centrist 😂😆😂😆 I'm dead.

[@Nillllllllllllll]

All of these points he's trying to make are just showing why he's the chatter and not the person with a youtube channel. I just imagine him carefully writing a script for months and trashing the whole thing every time something seems too entertaining

[@slimjim1104]

By this dudes logic let's just have all the mentally I'll right wingers have guns breh....0_o

[@slimjim1104]

I dont own a gun but I've got a few very liberal friends like myself that have arsenals you would make fun of right wing gun nuts for but most people have no clue because they dont dick wave with them constantly.

[@slimjim1104]

@@somad6997 thanks for adding some substance to the convo breh

[@dannysdungareedanceoff8481]

Literally just proves no matter what you say or do people will always try to make you sound bad

[@WhiffenC]

"Luckly, we still have a democracy" Roe vs wade was 60%+ are not in favor right, huh?

[@BiPolarUrsus]

At 6:38 his only response to V just said was yeah those Republicans suck. Not internalizing anything V said. He's either dumb or lying. This is my guess for now.

[@BiPolarUrsus]

14:00 people use guns for suicide. My guy V isn't just talking about trans people, all minorities. And by that extent the highest amount of people that die by gun suicide is probably white cis men. So if anything where is the problem? He also brought up the optics. But dude jan 6 happened, some guys planed to kidnapp some Michigan senator or state rep. Thier call outs mean nothing in the face of that hypocracy. The craziest thing the left or far left has done. Is try to get Bernie Sanders elected, and advocated police reform. Wow crazy stuff I know.

[@LDIndustries]

It feels like this person is a recent convert to the left and is still wading in the Twitter kiddie pool.

[@BiPolarUrsus]

@@LDIndustries i tapped out like at 15 mins. Cuz I was just so over the fear of looking bad to the poeple who's response to Biden saying "MAGA are anit democracy and pro violence" is. "Oh how dare you, you haven't even seem how violent we can get." Like yeah a minor optics gaff is really comparable.

[@aldenkahl8703]

Using suicide as an argument against any gun ownership is completely infantile. You have a right to your own life and that includes ending it. I'm not here about to argue for the removal of the most effective way for a person to take their own lives.

[@Marcela-tx7gh]

I don't think that's a great defense, since people who have attempted suicide and survived overwhelmingly regret it after the fact. Of course, Vaush isn't advocating for people who aren't in a good mental space to go and get guns, and there are better ways to help these people than just say that guns are never acceptable.

[@wonder6835]

True we all have the right to die.

[@wonder6835]

@@Marcela-tx7gh the regret of suicide thing is kinda survivorship bias, and the problem with the media only focusing on those who do regret it. Some dont regret suicide and try again. Others are prevented against their will. I do agree that though a lot of people dont actually wanna kill themselves, and that arming mentally unwell trans people can end up hurting them. I agree with your points, its just I still believe in the right to die.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

Yep. We don't like talking about suicide as a good thing because we don't like the whole dying thing. But without mental health support suicidal people will try doing either way with less safe options. It's very similar to abortion - it's an issue easier to prevent than treat

[@aldenkahl8703]

@@Marcela-tx7gh the main problem with people regretting it is that attempting suicide often just makes your life worse. I'm not really talking about what Voosh is advocating for I'm talking about how generally suicide as an anti-gun premise is just fuckin bunk

[@moejuggler6033]

When he point blank compared Vaush with Rogan and said he thought Vaush says stupid shit.... Feels bad man; not the way to debate.

[@nobleradical2158]

I’d be okay with him saying Vaush said stupid shit if he could defend even one example of it.

[@addisonvigil163]

This conversation reminds me of a quote from shortly after WWII. "Nice people make the best Nazis, assholes and radicals made the best resistance."

[@EclipseNine]

This guy is so fucking pathetic. "dont you see how.." "Don't you see..." "Don't you think..." No! It's your job to make a case for that position, not just ask if the other person holds it and shrug with no response when he gives you a very clear reason why your position isn't appealing.

[@grandmatrain1352]

"I just think/feel like..." "I can't see how/don't know..." "wouldn't you say..." "can't you be..."

[@FelisImpurrator]

"No, I don't see your argument because you haven't made it."

[@chesthoIe]

Yeah, how dare he not know how to debate as a random chatter.

[@EclipseNine]

@@chesthoIe This isn't a lack of debate skill, it's spinelessness. He's terrified to even claim his own positions as his own.

[@nobleradical2158]

@@chesthoIe he was supposed to learn how to write a topic sentence in high school.

[@lallig8860]

i was losing my mind when he was questioning Vaush's right to joke about queerness like, HE'S GAY DUDE

[@oliviabean8264]

People like this are literally the reason people tend to not like people who can't stick to their guns when it comes to ANY disagreeable opinion or belief.

[@5TailFox]

This coward has obviously never heard of Tulsa, or Rosewood, before. 😕

[@samclemens6613]

Genuinely can’t tell if it’s that I’ve heard this guy’s arguments (and by extension, Vaush’s responses) like 5 times now, or his insufferable liberal bias but I think this guy might be one of the most annoying Vaush has ever had on

[@EVanimations]

To me it's the way he responds to everything vaush says with this really condescending "okay, but I think..."

[@jaybee27D]

Yeah I swear we already had a debate a month or two ago that was like word for word identical to this

[@d3l3tes00n]

@@jaybee27D Yeah another debater had this same argument.. I was wondering if it was the same person or not.

[@redneckcommie]

@@jaybee27D we really need to touch grass cause I was thinking the exact same

[@jaybee27D]

@@d3l3tes00n are we 100% sure it’s not?

[@nickjanecke6688]

Hearing a lot of “Ok. Yah.” out of this guy once Vaush makes his point 😆

[@lallig8860]

10th tier insufferability, impressive

[@dildonius]

Chatter is in such fear of Vaush's dangerous speakwords that it makes his teefs chatter.

[@hibarikyoya854]

I mean can you blame him? Vaush saying conservatives are homo/trans phobes? I'm literally shaking from his extreme rhetoric

[@Rhodair]

Funny how often this guy presses over the JK Rowling content when that's what got me subscribed

[@12DAMDO]

i can't believe Vaush committed a thought crime ;_;

[@themajesticspider-man6116]

You could not ever convince that this type of person is not a fucking psy-op given how he somehow finds a way to disagree with the most simple yet correct points Vaush was making in defense of trans people NEEDING to defend themselves with guns.

[@camdenquick6071]

I was loading my handgun while he was getting shaken up over the word "gun" lol

[@pallasriot6542]

Pro tip; it's actually not reasonable or cool to argue that the suicide rate of trans people means we should have less autonomy. It is up to each of us to make determinations about our own risk and to mitigate that risk how we see fit. Wanting us to not possess the means of defense for our communities is just going to bat for right-wing militants. If you actually care about the suicide rate of trans people, then supporting us when we build alternative social structures, like our own community defense capabilities, is important; no marginalized group can fully rely on security from the state as is, nevermind in the future.

[@pallasriot6542]

Wow this guest is actually an awful human being. Pearl clutching about how "taking away all your rights and ostracizing you" is somehow totally distinct from hating you and wanting you dead is collaborator garbage. Being a second class citizen targeted for stochastic violence withe the implicit approval of the state kills people, you goon

[@luna-p]

Agreed

[@hysloth3137]

Is it me or do neurotypicals not actually hear the words coming out of our mouths, I'm ~10 minutes in and the whole time its been nothing but "I don't get what you mean, these sound bad together"

[@Reticentone]

Hour long tone policing sesh

[@Lambda_Ovine]

people like him spend 0 time within the communities they say they advocate for.

[@revelaitons3959]

"Why should I buy a fire extinguisher? My house isn't on fire."

[@fuzzyface1507]

I love these conversations with Vaush arguing my old brain.

[@maxsmart9116]

Vaush is right though

[@imperatusmauser7096]

@@Mr.Coffee576 -🤓

[@scslre]

@@Mr.Coffee576 this is a clip from a livestream

[@slowloris2894]

@@Mr.Coffee576 r/woooosh

[@julsthejedi2646]

I actually think this dude was acting in pretty bad faith at least at some points. Like when he walked back some of his points and then just says: “your gun rhetoric is bad” even after walking that back like three times.