Debating the Wing Chun Chain Punch with Dave North-Martino

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Can Wing Chun work with Wrestling? Absolutely it can. Let's talk about principles and concepts vs techniques and work off of the Wrestling Russian Tie Up!
Wing Chun Kung Fu taught by Retired Police Officer and Tactics Expert, Dominick Izzo.
Dominick Izzo has been training Wing Chun since 1998 and has been teaching in the Chicago area since 2008. He was the first American Wing Chun instructor to be published and published in back to back issues in Wing Chun Illustrated.
He is known for his realistic, aggressive and combative approach to Wing Chun Kung Fu. Wing Chun Kung Fu taught by Retired Police Officer and Tactics Expert, Dominick Izzo.
Dominick Izzo has been training Wing Chun since 1998 and has been teaching in the Chicago area since 2008. He was the first American Wing Chun instructor to be published and published in back to back issues in Wing Chun Illustrated.
He is known for his realistic, aggressive and combative approach to Wing Chun Kung Fu.
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#WingChun #MartialArts #SelfDefense

[@stratagem-riseoftheshadow9558]

I've been watching your videos for a while now, Great stuff! 👍 The time of the foot, body, hand is from George Silver's Paradoxes of Defense 1599. I have studied this key science (and ancient warfare) for a long while now....it's very interesting and are key elements that are vital to know in combat. All the best Robert James

[@IzzoWingChun]

That's it! Thank you!

[@stratagem-riseoftheshadow9558]

@@IzzoWingChun you are welcome. All the best. Cheers

[@stratagem-riseoftheshadow9558]

@@IzzoWingChun , I'm intrigued how George Silver's principles were included into your Wing Chun training. In the early 1990's, I trained at Bill Newman's club and was John Dovey's (one of Bill's instructors in Latosa Escrima) close student for 15 years. Bill was a close friend of Keith R. Kernspecht (Wing Tsun) who was the head of the EWTO - which we were associated with through the weapons. In the mid 1990's, Bill and his students started teaching medieval weapons within the Escrima system starting with Talhoffer and George Silver, plus many others. I was introduced mostly to George Silver through training in English Martial arts. After training with them privately for ten years, I then started to study and look deeper into 14th and 15th century sword fencing and ancient combat. I never pursued the Wing Chun side as I just trained in the weapons (even though they linked the both under EWTO) but its interesting you were taught George Silver's time of the hand as well. 😁 👍

[@jangiel3103]

I've seen that same problem with Wing Chun people trying to impress viewers with super fast continuous punches - circling the hands versus driving them. Circling, especially when staying very relaxed, allows for a blurring motion that looks really fast and impressive, but causes the hands to scrape or hammer the target instead of punching into it.

[@Aniontedone]

Proper chain punching is a punch coupled with a trapping controlling motion. Combining them destroys the adversary’s structure and allows a higher chance of connecting.

[@kuo.taichi]

I agree with what you're saying, and I'm from a Wong Sheung-leung lineage, but the other aspect of performing a straight punch which he omits is that it utilizes energy from snapping your forearm out and flicking your bottom three knuckles so that they're flush with the target surface. And he also doesn't pull the retreating hand back in Wu Sao and use that pulling energy to enhance the following punch.

[@webherring]

Many people think this. Actually, the fist stays level and aimed forward at the target from start to finish but the angle of the forearm changes as it extends out, so it feels like you're flicking the wrist. The wrist thing can be a way to add inch power / fajin but when your target is moving, it's impractical to try to time it with the moment of impact. And if you tense up at the last moment, it could break the chain of relaxation that links your punch to the rest of your mass.

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

The chain punch is truly just an exercise, to develop the muscles used for bringing your arms up, punching etc and their coordination, that and a drill to get your nervous system etc more used to follow up attacks , combos etc.

[@ziggydog5091]

Love you Izzo! George Silver is the man! Power starts from the ground, true time, or speed, starts with the hand. Understanding how to apply the two is how we do effective technique.

[@simonalpin2365]

Spot on Mr izzo, I'm a jkd man myself but have trained wing chun before for many years and the punches are extremely powerful and penetrating, unless you've trained wc you won't understand ,

[@ricksterdrummer2170]

The problem is a lot of Wing Chun schools teach bullshit. I started with Wing Chun and did it about a year and what I learned was awful. I switched to Original JKD and fell for the ''Wing Chun doesn't work''. Fast forward 13 years and I didn't give Wing Chun another chance until I discovered Izzo's way of doing it.

[@sergiobatista2272]

@@ricksterdrummer2170 if you only found Izzo way of doing it...then you are limited in the way of applying wing Chun. Izzo is overall good, but he only uses his hands and totally forget to use the legs...i never saw him launch a single kick in any of his videos (maybe I'm doing a bad judgment, because I didn't watch all his videos, especially older videos...so, maybe he uses kicks, but I never saw him use them)... You should watch Victor Gutierrez and Emin Boztep from Leung Ting Wing Tsung lineage (Izzo also recommended to watch this guys), you will see that this guys use almost only kicks to deflect any coming attack from the medium and long distance... They also use hands a lot, chi sao, etc...but that is only for advanced practitioners to be fighting in the close distance against another good opponent. In the close distance, we should use both hands and kicks, knees, etc, all in sincronicity (almost simultaneously)...but how many times do we see wing Chun practitioners do that on KZbin? 98% of them never uses kicks. And that's one of many reasons why wing Chun practitioners are bad fighters. It's not the art that is bad (actually it's the best system ever invented), but the practitioners that suck at wing Chun and also suck at fighting in general.

[@ricksterdrummer2170]

@@sergiobatista2272 I agree with you! I'm not saying Izzo is the only good Wing Chun guy. I'm saying Izzo made me realize good Wing Chun exist. I'll check out the guys you mentioned. And thanks!

[@magvs_mæstro216]

You are on fire 🔥 Mr. Dom

[@glynhannaford7332]

Brilliant critique! 👏

[@MartialArtsViking]

in oir hunggar sparring i have experienced that a short blast of chainpunches works perfectly to get my hands pass the guard. so one application of it for me is to prepair a throw because the with a short chainpunch blast i can get behind my opponents guard easily and then with a stance switch i execute a throw, works nicely😊

[@williamsmith8790]

Vunak runs his in to generate power. He doesn’t use the WC structure. He use the Straight Blast as a distraction to get to clinch and use knees, elbows, and head butts to finish. A chain punch with good structure should not require an overwhelming flurry to distract, it should hit hard enough to finish the guy in a few beats. The late Dr Y.Q. Wong of Bak Mei, who hit like a mule kick, said all the old WC guys he knew had that power when he was coming up in Taiwan, but most don’t seem to teach it anymore.

[@JunJonz]

With the mechanics of the punching, you have to learn the bodies Elasticity peaks Do it very slow, get used to it. Cause once the punch is done, the arm relax is back to position. Which leaves space for the next punch the launch instead of these circular super fast punches. You see, this is why all of the higher level stuff is not all over the internet.

[@sandblastskin]

Exactly. Those super fast circular punches are actually more like a hammer fist. The proper fist should come straight from the center, then relax and drop allowing the next punch to come out from the center.

[@yisraelaker6825]

This is great

[@JKDVIPER]

2:56 That dude is such a good dude. 💥😉 he stops by faithfully supporting my progress. ✅🐉

[@ziggydog5091]

Izzo is re inventing Xing Yi, love it!

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

And really I was taught to do both ways over the top/under mostly just for exercise tho, for an actual effective punch you would typically punch with the lower hand(especially when using the knives which is mainly where I did the straight blast tbh)

[@igotbluesdevils]

How can you even compare the sheer force produced by your triceps, with the force produced by your triceps+abs (obliques also)+lumbars+hips and legs+rotation? It's basic physiology and physics.

[@mattbugg4568]

The chain punch is super important because it holds a hidden meaning. If you actually do the chain punch with your forward hand turning back towards you when you do it. While you're forward hand goes forward. In a bicycle motion. You can see it is the same motion as bong sau to tan sau and that circle opens up double rolling of the arms you pluck the elbow on the reverse side bong side and you parry the arm outward with the forward fist or tan sau. Why is this movement important. Because it opens up the inside line most techniques are done from the outside corner and when you go to strike the points of the gates you have to flip between inside and outside the arm. Without this movement you are stuck on the outside of the arm and close off the lower and upper gates so you effectively have the center gate to shoot at.

[@KurtisJoseph]

See, I come from a Concepts school but I blast way wrong apparently. I run down the effers throat like Vunak because I am from that school of thought. The "over the top" is an illusion in my opinion. I keep my hands at center and the "rolling' is actually straight punches coming. It looks like "over the top" because of the kinetic chain. Due to the sprint the hips are engaging, and pressure is building up at lightning speed from the ground. You are correct though. A hand has to drop to get tf out of the way and make space for the next one. This HAS TO BE TRUE IF THE FIST IS ACTUALLY MAINTAINING CENTERLINE! Bringing the fist up lacks efficiency. His elbows seem a bit wide too, but I won't nit pick. That is what the channel is for. LMAO! It's Izzo's show.

[@larrygibson9273]

I agree with your analysis of David's technique. He's doing more of a bicycle move, circular as opposed to a piston. His root needs a lot of work too

[@juliansawyer9845]

I agree the Wing Chin straight punch delivered with the tricep drives the punch

[@jjooeegg1]

Good video

[@williamsmith8790]

True time, false time, etc was Master at Arms George Silver Paradoxes of Defense. Elizabethan time frame

[@hannuvalasmo5439]

I wouldn't downgrade chain punch totally as a self defence technique. It can be a good technique especially when you get ambushed. You counter attack with a flurry (3-6) of chain punches while stepping towards the attacker. The punches come straight in the middle, hard to see, hard to deflect. The stepping motion moves your weight forward and gives chain punch power which it lacks if your hips are not turning. If the attackers arms come in the way your low elbow of the striking hand wedges away the attackers arms and when you retract the punching hand you can trap the opponents arms. At least the attacker probably stops the attack and has to retreat which is a win for the self defender.

[@florisvanlingen]

I'm just going to drop this statement here... "People should spend less time punching on centre and should learn to punch towards centre".

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

But oh yeah, what and how you are hitting really depends. But either are fine, it's just the top two knuckles hitting a heavy solid object is likely to break a wrist, if you hit with just the bottom two you will break your hand. But if you use a truly straight punch flat onto the bottom 3 you will likely never break your hand. But yes exactly as you say it's structure and alignment. Also the intent thing is very important , turns out that "ancient Chinese secret" stuff really works lol. (been doing qi gong for like 15years now, siu nim Tao /siu lim tao whichever technically is a qi gong exercise)

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

The chain punch is 1st of all a training exercise, for the multiple things you explained, as well as just the general concept of chaining attacks together. A really good person could apply it in the perfect circumstances, saenchai in Muay Thai has done it twice in a fight before , won the fight with it actually lol. But no it really wasn't intended to be a combat technique. There really aren't "techniques" in the forms of wing Chun. (yes they are literally there but that's not the actual point of the forms)

[@Juergen0202]

Punch over the top? My old Sifu called this a "Mickey-Mouse-Punch." Also a reason why I don't like the JDK-version kind of backfist. Thank you for demonstrating the piston movement which I prefer more.

[@paklee630]

If you can finish your opponent in one or two punch, why do you need a chain punch?🙃 Many people misunderstand the ving tsun punch. Chain punches only reminds you that you need to defend and attack at the same time.

[@JKDVIPER]

19:50 The way we use it. I’ll catch a good snuff, n then we straight blast from an angle. Where he can’t see it coming. He’s stunned anyways.

[@day304productions]

25:16 there is no connection to the ground there. He's just hopping along and punching

[@chrisgermann6658]

From my experience WC is very much an "elbow" art. Its very much about controlling yours and the opponents elbows everything else after that just follows. But i must add the punch energy comes from a good planted structure and strong hips otherwise its just arm power. And for the nay Sayer's that wouldn't agree try your arm power against someone double your weight then come back and tell me how you got on.

[@florisvanlingen]

You are aware there is a principal in wing-chun called the Fixed elbow position?

[@Vinnay94]

Lol, that's rich of you to criticize JKD which I have no issues with, but in the same breath think Wing Chun is better.

[@ziggydog5091]

True time George Silver.

[@danielteixeira309]

I practiced Sanda and I can assure you I can knock you out cold bareknucle 1000%

[@JKDVIPER]

24:10 ya.. that’s no good. The way I do mine. I drive n use my body but my shoulder gives it an extra boost. You can’t allow yourself to get in the way of those things. 😂they cause cuts big time. 😂

[@JKDVIPER]

28:19 you seen mine. 😂

[@ziggydog5091]

Study Xing Yi Beng Chaun it is the hammer of doom. 😊

[@oldschoolkarate-5o]

🤔. 👍🏽

[@igotbluesdevils]

Have you guys ever seen Mike Tyson, Mayweather, even James Toney in his prime punch? What are we even talking about here? Boxing perfected the only 3 basic necessary trajectories to a tee. Notable exceptions could be the backside punch, or the descending punch, as outliers. All else is wishful thinking.

[@stuarthughes3747]

mmm then he drops into classic zenkustu dachi

[@davidnorth-martino]

I have a Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan/Tang Soo Do background.

[@JKDVIPER]

17:54 WE DONT TEACH IT THAT WAY. TAKI WOULDNT HAVE TAUGHT it like that.

[@davidnorth-martino]

Absolutely. All Mistakes are my own.

[@JKDVIPER]

@@davidnorth-martino no.. I’m not saying anything is wrong per say. I did find value in what you were doing. I liked the push step and your speed was good. I never knock people. Unfortunately.. I didn’t realize you’d see this. My apologies. 🐉💯🤛💥just try to shoot it more straight. No problem bud.

[@davidnorth-martino]

@@JKDVIPER No worries! I appreciate your input! Thanks for watching!

[@JKDVIPER]

@@davidnorth-martino no problem. I’ll stop by n take a look around.

[@davidnorth-martino]

@@JKDVIPER Cool! Thanks, man! I'll do the same.

[@JKDVIPER]

27:36 Oh GAO CHOY

[@JKDVIPER]

Hi Dom. Could you please address once n for all. Do you, or would you compete? If the guys, the NAYSAYERS wanna talk talk talk... if we set something up where we could all possibly meet and maybe square off with a couple of these dudes who wanna be critical all the time. The braggers. The idiots who ruin the arts. ❤😂

[@jacoblookenbill7045]

Lol....I just watched some of "the thinkers" content... that's all grade A meme material... and so many arts to choose from🤔.... does this guy teach? Like for real living people?

[@KristerBarrabasWadstedt]

hahah it not super effectiv , if you do it is really not beacuse you sucksm, thats is the true, you are no warrior, figter

[@rjsantos1551]

Watched my instructor cave in a person's window pipe with sut sao in 1985. Dude tried to cut his face with a broken beer bottle. Deflection then sut sao/da to throat. The dude died. Jury didn't believe it was self defense. My instructor went to jail for 8 years. Chain punch is for fights of dominance. People are debating who is in charge. Dude that can capture the centerline and blast the other person. Clearly won. For self defense?? I'd never use it as a finishing move. It's a machine gun of shut the hell up. That's it.