Why VTubers Are Leaving Their Agencies

[@DepressedNousagi]

Comment down why you think VTubers are leaving their agencies!

[@AndeKanata]

Vtubing industry is dying, Sagi. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 L F G ! ! ! Party! Party!

[@gokbay3057]

I mean, kind of obvious for Niji EN. As for Hololive, I think for both Aqua and Ame it was mostly their own personal decisions/reasons and not necessarily a sign of a trend that will happen. There are definitely some things about Hololive that a number of talents criticize but it doesn't seem that widespread to me. (For example, I don't think Aqua is planning to do anything much different than she did in Hololive. She simply wanted to have a more laid back experience and even mentioned being overwhelmed by her incredibly quick growth back into the big leagues. And she mentioned having tons of meetings.) (And no, at least for Aqua it isn't not wanting to be an idol. Her introduction video on Twitter has her call herself "everyone's idol", she has talked about her ideal vision of an idol on scream as well as talk about singing on a big stage as a goal.)

[@sambuddy4465]

For Holo...They made too much money and now they just want to chill and not worry about Idol stuff or now just want to go at their own pace

[@SubliminaIMessages]

to go indie.

[@HyattHyatt3179]

(Apart from Niji) Some probably do it because they just wanted to see how it would be to join an agency, and they didn't like it or prefer being indie (be it due to low pay or suffocating environment). Some probably just aren't big fans of the direction the agency is going in and feel like they'd rather work at their own pace. I don't think it has to do with the industry dying or anything like that, but rather that people have been in their agencies for long enough to see whether they like it or not, and some agencies have been active for long enough to fall apart, and seeing a lot of other people go indie made people realize that it's possible to do well as an indie too.

[@arthurshangareev7202]

From consumer point of view, I think large collab events, like hologta/enreco/etc, are the edge of agencies. Centralization has its benefits

[@EmhyrvarSpice]

Can't help but agree. I mostly watch twitch indies now, but even if big indies can do some really cool stuff you won't see them do a lot of giant collab events like that. Some like Filian or Dokibird might arrange one now and then, but it's a lot more rare and limited in scope.

[@kuhaku9635]

​@@EmhyrvarSpicealso even if organized by someone else, i think the atmosphere can't match something like hololive. there's something intriguing about like friends interacting with each other in like indie vtuber collab. but something is just different when they're in like the same org. Idk. for example the Subaru and kanade in hologta. i dont see it possible or kinda as appealing as it is,if they're not in the same org. the senior - junior thing i think is what makes it more interesting, and a positive senior - junior relation is actually a really good comedy esp since they literally are.

[@clorkmagnus]

Being solo is like running your own business. It is an ok option if you are as big as Aqua, Ame etc. but if you start solo it’s like an elo hell.

[@PurplesttCoffee]

@@EmhyrvarSpice I think indie and corpo collabs will become their own niches as time goes on. I really like some people at Hololive (especially Nerissa, since she makes me feel less weird about being both a weeb and into Jane Austen lmao), but when I watch a collab including people like Doki, Minto, and 🅱in 🅱enrose (when the stars align, hope she's invited to more stuff), I enjoy their bits way more, though I can't exactly say why.

[@ErgoProxy12345]

​@kuhaku9635 some would likely never seek collabs if they were not in an agency together, then they realise their interactions are strangely very fun! Kaela as an indie ID would likely never have heard of Biboo as an indie yet here we are with Grindstone collabs

[@afikkusan]

To make things clear : Aqua, Doob : Exit with good terms, because they wanted new adventures Mel : Unfortunate circumstances and Hololive forced to terminate due to policy. (They didn't want to let her go but forced by their own policy) Ex-Kurosanji : Escaping modern day slavery. Rin Penrose : RIN-DEPENDENCE

[@tsugumorihoney2288]

I guess Mel also left cuz she wanted independence, I don't think that it were so big rule breaking to terminate her contract, also I remember that BOTH sides decide to terminate contract, not only Holo, Mel also wanted it

[@gamerguy425]

Rin probably outgrew Idol honestly. Just left everyone else there in the DUST with subscribers and has even overtaken some of Holo EN. Mel I don't know why they had to immediately BAN her on the spot instead of suspend her or something but they're really strict when it comes to contract breaches.

[@periodicdragonflare5572]

Oh no, the Rin is free..😦

[@Kold-Kanadian]

unlike a certain mike cat, Mel still left on good terms with Hololive too😔

[@pineconekun9627]

Mel, Aqua and Ame all left in circumstances related to their new contracts. Mel showed it to somebody she wasn't supposed to to see if it was "ok" and Aqua and Ame left after they saw it and decided it wasn't worth it. Hololive lost 3 old talents due to that. Now that its shown you can make it outside it seems a lot more might be up next year.

[@denniseggert211]

Why Dooby left is clear. She has the cloud, her own Studio the technical know how and the ambitions to do everything herself. She really doesnt need a Corpo except for maybe the group Dynamics. Honestly you can argue she has done more studio work for her corpo then her corpo did for her. With the experience she gained over the last years she is simply going her own way now.

[@Thunderbolt22A10]

I'm sad she's left but I wish her the best!

[@andrwarrior]

I was deeply sad about Ame, for a time, because I could tell there was so much personal interest in streaming unique content and experimenting with 3D. It didn't take me long to realize there was NO way she would leave the streaming space for good with what she put into it regarding the studio expenses she had already invested in, and it was only a matter of time before we saw her again doing her own thing in a solo manner. Plus, she's a long-time PC gamer, how would you ever stop playing CS and making sick plays if you were once doing it on a stream with thousands of viewers? I imagine the highs of streaming when it's going well are really hard to shelf forever

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

Dooby hasn't streamed in, what, elven days? Maybe she needs more help than she thought.

[@yurisei6732]

She didn't even leave, did she? Just moved into a more "consultant" type role, while continuing streaming activities as the equivalent of a private citizen.

[@andrwarrior]

@@bubbasbigblast8563 could say the same for gura

[@darksableye]

Its a bit....not fair putting Aqua and Ame with Selene and Pomu, 2 very VERY different circunstances

[@EmhyrvarSpice]

All are examples of company Vtubers doing well as indies. If anything it proves that the circumstances don't matter, the fans will follow anyway.

[@darksableye]

@@EmhyrvarSpice while thats fair, the content of the video is "why are they leaving" where we know one of them was not she leaving but being terminated and a lot of nonsense

[@Mentaljedi]

@@EmhyrvarSpice True, at the same time, many of those fans only discovered them because of the corporation

[@jdthebud]

@@Mentaljediyou can count me in that audience. Dokibird is the first vtuber I started watching outside of occasionally seeing Lopo and Rin’s shorts in my feed. Now I’m fully in the rabbit hole.

[@Prinny.]

@@EmhyrvarSpiceare they doing well because they are indies or they doing well because they now have following when going indie?

[@satriaamiluhur622]

Some of them left after working for 3+ years in the agencies. They might want to try something new, it doesn't have to be very complicated reason. I mean i left my well paying job after working with the company for 5 years simply because i got bored with the same routine and waking up at the same hour

[@conspiracyspider]

True boredom and repetitiveness can make someone go insane. I should know I quit many jobs because of that.

[@khristopherkomodoensis4734]

Yep, Ame and Akutan both cited creative differences as a big part of why they were leaving. Cover was taking Hololive in a different direction than Ame and Akutan wanted, with Hololive steering more towards idol activities (therefore more off-stream appearances) while Ame and Akutan preferred the streamer-entertainer side of things.

[@Eis_]

Or maybe they just wanted to go out because of the shitty work environment (ahem Kurosanji).

[@DawnAfternoon]

@@Eis_ Yes, that's the point he's making. Some of them left because of shitty work environment. Some of them left because doing the same routine over and over is boring.

[@CapsLock690]

​@@Eis_ just a reminder that kurosanji have 20 possibly 21 livers graduating this year.

[@aparctias]

0:18 Vesper, Magni and Vesper's chin

[@SethSalkin-Weiss]

Vesper, Magni, and Magmo Dezmo

[@MARfilms]

Vesper's remodel was such a turn off for me, I still loved my boy but mad did it lose a lot of soul.

[@electricwindgodfist777]

I thought he was talking about Gamma as the 3rd, but that's 2024 lol RIP the GOATS of holostars

[@unpopularweeb8535]

@@electricwindgodfist777 All three of them.

[@GoodOleDFT]

@@MARfilms For me it was a case of him not having time to settle into it and make it shine.

[@MARfilms]

Hololive will be fine, I see more damage will happen to Niji.

[@iiiiiiiiiiiiililiiiiio]

thats what people thought about Machinima , Linus Tech Tips and Maker Studios

[@VeRG1L_47]

​@iiiiiiiiiiiiililiiiiio everything is possible. But hololive and vshojo have improved on their mistakes and transgressions, while some can only ACCELERATE!!!!!

[@darkevilazn]

@@VeRG1L_47 But hololive is heading away from live streaming though, which is basically what some talents want more than the idol stuff. I expect those who don't like the idol stuff are going to start leaving, because that stuff is hard and time consuming.

[@VeRG1L_47]

@@darkevilazn sure. But they still improved upon their mistakes. If they want more pre-recorded stuff - it's their choice) their talent will strive regardless

[@TheGreatMaou]

​@@darkevilaznno they aren't, the only thing the talents are REQUIRED to attend are FES and for the EN girls they have to do the En concerts. That's it.

[@fallenecrolyc5992]

I'm speculating hololive and ame, specifically the "ame's" way of graduating is hololive's answer. Basically talents grew big enough to thrive on their own. But instead of just graduating and closing the door, they want to keep their connections with their talents open with the new rising stars. Talents gets their independence free from investors and suits demands, and holo gets to keep the door open for future opportunities/collabs/comebacks. In theory everybody stands to gain. In theory

[@leandroiuki4337]

This is a way to protect and keep the IP growing.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

i guess thats why Hololive Kept Hiring more talents cause they know that one day, some of the talents will leave due to Directions not aligned to each other and this is the result. but at the same time, they dont want to lose their money maker so yeah Affiliate might be their only answer to solve their Financial Problems.

[@crazy338866]

Ame's way of "graduating" is most likely a unique exception, due to her being tech savy as well as having professional experience in sound post production work. I don't see this kind of thing happening regularly.

[@mrparkx2]

​@Otoshi_Gami any agency needs more talent... that's business for babies .... wtf bro

[@kroanius8808]

ames way of graduating could also be just a japanese corp trying not to loose face and telling the world everything is fine between them and the talent

[@NeoArcon]

I rarely watch any of these vtuber solo and only watch them when they collab for their chemistry. So when Kson went indie, her interaction with vshojo wasn't the same experience as her interaction with the holo girls, and of course I know they are different group of people and there is no way that the chemistry would be the same. Recently Kson collab with Gyutara and I thought this was great and brought back some nostogia. When Vesper and Magni left, I thought it was a lost of cover because they brought in a different chemistry with holostar and the en hololive girls. I actually really like watching Doki and Maidmint together now, probably because of the chemistry they had built before and it carries over very well now. If anymore agency vtuber graduate, they would all do great financially but it would suck because the lost of their interactions on screen would be lost.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

thats what indie Collab is there for. New people, New Chemistry both old and new. Vtuber Indies have the right to Collab with Anybody both Flesh and Vtuber so that they can open a Brand New possibility on what they can do with that Collab person and see what sticks out for them unlike Corpos who rely on their Inner circle of members to collab each other and Rarely collab outside of the corpos, Preventing them meeting new people to have chemistry with.

[@NeoArcon]

@@Otoshi_Gami are there any indie vtuber that is on youtube that collab often like doki and maidmint? I know on the JP side they collab with a tons of people, indie and corpo depending who you watch.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

@@NeoArcon theres nyanners and Aethelstan. Veibae and Sodapoppin(fleshtuber) but they collab often. Sayu and Rae. thats all the top of my head so far but all of them are on Twitch as indies so if you want to see their chemistry, feel free to check it out.

[@yaboileeroy3038]

Vesper still streams (Randon the Orc) and did a couple of collabs with Magni (Professor Lando) immediately after they left. If anything, they’re more unhinged than when they were in HoloEN, and Randon’s collabs have been great so far. The magic’s still there; You just gotta look for it.

[@Ikkanoa]

I still remember HoloSALT fondly to this very day. That group dynamic was the most unhinged, wild fucking thing ever. Legends say that Vesper's dick is still somewhere in that tall grass....

[@n0w0va]

I am not a fan of how this video portraits the Doki situation as a "she just left Niji and proved how easy it is now for Agency VTubers to go indie!". She suffered so much and was terminated out of the agency and had to deal with legal trouble surrounding it way after she left. Completely disregarding the absurd amounts of mental stress she had gone through. Doesnt sit quite right with me, even though I'm not a big fan of her at all

[@mrparkx2]

Yeah, this video is just bad

[@n0w0va]

@mrparkx2 yeah I don't really agree with anything brought up in this video, but it's too exhausting to bring all that up in a comment. The Doki stuff was just frustrating to listen to

[@mrparkx2]

@n0w0va yeah. Seems like he just made a below average video for views

[@PatchouliKnowledge22]

@@mrparkx2 Doxagi making a bad video, shocking.

[@mrparkx2]

@@PatchouliKnowledge22 sorry, just came up in my feeds. Don't know this guy. Kinda sad since he is a nousagi

[@tapout928]

I don't think Gura is going anywhere. Afaik her not streaming has nothing (or very little) to do with differences with management, and leaving Hololive won't fix any of her issues. If both parties are ok with her really just coming out for big events and occasional streams I don't see why either would end the relationship.

[@2d_enjoyer]

Yeah shes literally the show horse they bring out when they need a lil push. Everyone knows of the shark

[@Philweasel]

Yeah, I do wonder why exactly people think being in a corp stops people from streaming. Sakuna isn't exactly any more prolific than before, I really don't believe Gura would be either. As long as she makes them money, Cover are find with keeping Gura on. And Gura earns more than enough to live on, while she's busy with whatever she's doing.

[@mrparkx2]

​@@Philweaselgura has mental health issues. From the things I heard from ame and calling, gura is a huge introvert and she has a delicate mind. That's why I hate it when people diss her for her absence

[@saulinvictus9274]

I dont get why people still confused why gura is not streaming she already tweeted shes in a rough health situation, also her past streams are all collabs her last solo stream was 3 months ago.

[@felisconcolori]

Gura already had a fairly popular stream when she joined Hololive. Even the first channel she created (afaik), considering audience and the content, was more successful than I think people might be aware. It's a bit paradoxical. She is really under a spotlight and has a large community that seems to be non-toxic. She can entertain them. But it's taxing because she is a more introverted person in nature. If she needs time to heal, deal with health issues, or anything else at all, Hololive is a good place to be. Cover aren't clue deficient when it comes to supporting the talent. I sincerely hope that Gura comes back when she feels she can do so.

[@1000shadowmario]

Thank you for showing me Dooby. You were right in the fact that not all of us follow them once they leave. But now that I know where she is now, I am now watching her again. Thanks again for this.

[@yufeng1707]

Some of these companies going public also means a new set of rules come in and a new batch of people to kowtow to. Not everybody is onboard with that. Having your hands tied on the types of things you'd like to do makes it hard to remain loyal even if you want to be loyal.

[@hoppy8008]

Yeah, Holo going public may eventually cause issues outside of a few talents today. Niji going public has made their multitude of issues much worse. I can also see Phase going public (if it ever does) causing a huge rift in the fanbase.

[@trajectoryunown]

Public trading shifts the focus away from customer relations to investor relations. The stock market inherently discourages good business practice, which includes offering quality goods at competitive rates and providing long-term support for existing products.

[@TheNobody1324]

Public trading was the worst thing ever invented

[@zeux5583]

​@@TheNobody1324it depends, if it is a company only providing services or goods to other companies and are seperated by at least 2 degrees from the mainstream natural person customer market (meaning a market of primarily human customers trading for everyday use goods and services), like the companies that build the tools that ie samsung uses to build your smartphone then it may be a good move to go public. Then you have a smaller customer base and if the decisions of your shareholders upset those few customers, the impact of them, leaving, will be much greater than if some nobody person stops buying your goods

[@rafaelcalmon2858]

Might as well add one thing that was left out: I think the live shows can also play a factor. It's probably nearly impossible for an indie vtuber to get live shows like Holo does, so I imagine if that's one of the things the talent wants, they might rather stick around. Going indie is probably a prospect mainly for when the talent wants to focus exclusively on streaming.

[@hammadfaizan7184]

cough* fantome thief

[@Winters004]

@@hammadfaizan7184Mint is a bit of an outlier since she’s close enough to some small/medium corpos that they are willing to let her guest star in their concerts. At the end of the day she is still beholden to them. And if you want to stand as a vtuber in a BIG stage like Budokan? Hololive is pretty much your only shot.

[@LopsidedMoz]

Holo caters to the "idol" experience, but certain talents (like Ame) prefer to focus on streaming and general entertainment. The singers and dancers are less likely to leave imo.

[@TsurugiMatsuda]

@@Winters004VSinger "KAF" from Kamitsubaki Project says hi. She landed the Tokyo Budokan concert gig 2 years before Suisei is getting her chance.

[@gokbay3057]

@@TsurugiMatsuda Kamitsubaki are more vsingers than streamer vtubers as understood in the West though. (afaik, at least) (That said yeah, Kamitsubaki and especially Kaf are massive.)

[@scalien225]

I agree you are doom posting. At least for Hololive, I honestly see Hololive balancing out with a new gen a year balancing 4 to 5 graduations a year. As long as vtubers are popular. I actually think Hololive will open an irl streamer/entertainer division if vtubing does fade in popularity. Unless Sony buys them... then it will become a weird content farm.

[@gabetalks9275]

Sony buying Hololive would ruin the entire industry. A mass exodus from the company would follow if God forbid that ever did happen.

[@scalien225]

@gabetalks9275 my nightmare.

[@Artista_Frustrado]

"Balancing to 5 graduations a year"... bruh 5 Graduations is what Hololive had TOTAL

[@gabetalks9275]

@@Artista_Frustrado That's an entire generation per year too lmao

[@Artista_Frustrado]

@@gabetalks9275 yeah, that's why im making fun of it. it's such an out of touch statement to make

[@Mimirsand]

The doomposting part doesn't make complete sense imo, just because it "looks" like someone is inactive or "dissociating", certainly does not mean they may have lost interest or are even planning to graduate. Aqua was SUPER active prior to her graduation announcement. In fact she streamed just a day before or so before that graduation notice came out, so she clearly had it planned quite some time ago. Same with Ame, she was just participating in the 4th Anniversary of myth before she too posted a notice. It just goes to show that a Corpo Vtuber can graduate pretty much anytime regardless of "activity". EDIT: I should also like to just say we shouldn't always worry and speculate about who's going to graduate next or why and when. No talent of any agency would probably want such worries for their fanbase, just enjoy whoever it is you watch to the fullest

[@alexmercer5965]

Nah man, both Aqua and Ame had signs on the wall well over a year before they left with a noticeable dip in activity for quite sometime. Sure there can be spontaneous slaps in the face like what happened with Magni and Vesper, but 2 common signs a talent is on the way out is when they have a bit of an uptick in activity after being mostly absent for months or even years, and they are suddenly taking part in a bunch of collabs. Coco, Sana, Ame, Aqua, one or both signs happened with each of them.

[@yamada_rob]

and we have to add the fact that there's always a huge time gap between the decision of graduating and the announcement of said graduation. Mumei exemple is kinda bad bc Promise has an fucking Musical announced so her inactivity might as well be her prioritizing the musical and other related "homework" than streaming on her channel. Even during the announcement of the musical they already sounded exhausted from all the thing they needed to do. And as far i know, gura always have moments of absolute silence and even posting on her PL but she's still kicking in holo. Aqua's graduation and Ame's "graduation" were not because they were unhappy, but simply because they did what they wanted and now they wanted to do things that they felt like holo couldn't give them.

[@creeperkun4040]

@@yamada_rob Isn't Mumei a college student? Her being inactive could also just mean that she has to study for a test or something like that. And even if she really likes streaming, finishing college would probably take a higher priority than streaming

[@kaiselplay4681]

​@@creeperkun4040 Yes but people like spread things you know...

[@Philweasel]

​@@creeperkun4040 Mumei and Gura I feel have to be taken in context, they were ALWAYS famous for often disappearing for weeks or months at a time. Gura's social media presence before joining Cover was... lacking. An unusual drop off in activity is a bit worrying, but for talents that have always been spotty streaming once a month is hardly surprising. Mumei has been open about how her ADHD makes things challenging for her.

[@francocentrone197]

If Mumei leaves Hololive I'm gonna be so fucking depressed

[@Martynde]

For some reason I don’t see Mumei on the Hololive clippers I subscribe to and they often clip EN Hololive videos. I see a whole load of Biboo, Calli, Raora, Gigi, Fuwamoco, Kronii, Elizabeth, Kiara and Nerissa from the EN side but no Mumei.

[@azelynhirano]

@@Martynde Mumei's last stream was a month age, afterall.

[@Rezuvious]

At least she would be easy to find if she went Indie, 100% guaranteed to show up in a dokibird stream.

[@GoodOleDFT]

Why? You'll have Shachimu to brighten up your day with cuteness and edgy humor.

[@GoodOleDFT]

​@@RezuviousThere's no need to identify those we already know where to find.

[@kurb0]

Doom posting about Hololive never feels valid, people have been saying X member is gonna graduate for literal years and it just never pans out. Out of Myth, Ame was probably the bottom rung to who was gonna graduate.

[@DeltaCortis]

And Ame didn't even graduate.

[@kylewood4488-b9r]

Ame technically is still apart of Holo but doesn't stream anymore.

[@BioMatic2]

As a deathbeat i've been hearing that for years. They finally started shuting up after she got with Universal jp.

[@singularleaf3895]

Ame herself said she only was going to be around for 2-3 years and she lasted 4 and is still an associate... and she only left to so that she could further pursue her other job.

[@Homiloko2]

Hololive haters keep doomposting and Yagoo keeps winning like eating breakfast

[@MadobeNanao]

Let's just hope people don't start trying to "min max" joining a corpo just so they can leave ASAP to gain enough of an audience to skip over the initial growth stage as an indie. Otherwise these companies are going to have to change, and not for the better... People like doki would still be tiny if it weren't for things going the way they did.

[@icarue993]

Doubt it. Auditioning is not like applying to your local supermarket. Its a long process like any other job. So quitting that is a waste, specially if you haven't learn anything. The reason why people work for 3 years before quitting is to learn what the company can teach them (speaking of "normal" jobs). Talents might start to do what people in "normal" jobs do and apply, be there for 3-5 years and quit to become indie. And I think that's fine. Some may not make it, but that is the risk of going indie.

[@Philweasel]

I think they would be in for a rude awakening, because a lot of corpo graduations just drop in numbers quite heavily after leaving. Doki is somewhat of the exception honestly, because of course her graduation was content in itself and she could never be accused of leaving for clout.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

@@icarue993 Pretty much in general. you cant just join for 1 year and then Quit Unless Corruption is involved then yeah you can leave. Joining Corpo is there to teach people many things that any Indie cannot do and once they're done for 3 years after joining that corpo, they have the option to Leave if they want to with a Corpo Experience or just stick with them a little longer for their own benefit.

[@1mikeap4]

It’s also kinda scummy imo. Don’t get me wrong, vtubers absolutely have a right to leave any agency if they don’t like the conditions there. But leaving with the full intention of redebuting shortly after, sometimes even in another company in direct opposition to the one that gave you the connections that allowed you to flourish, just feels ungrateful. Especially if your decision screws over future talents at the company you’re leaving by harming the group you yourself inspired them to strive for.

[@ayakiria]

Hololive's still going very strong, but they do need to navigate around their shareholders carefully.

[@beatnik11]

I find it funny how Aqua and Ame are basically the same characters. Aqua essentially just did a palette swap and Ame went from an autistic detective to an autistic train engineer.

[@SliceLeedice]

Also it feels like V-Shoujo and Hololive is kind of the reason why some talents feel "safe" and content on agencies since they don't strangle their talents with too much rules. Yes, there are still rules to follow but not something that would hinder what a talent wants to do for content to a crawl. A good example of this is Okayu(Hololive) and Shiina(Niji) discussing their experiences in GTAV. Okayu shows yabai things Holo talents did and said in HoloGTA and the Holo management just allowed it because that's who their talents are known for but Shiina said that those things would've been impossible in Niji due to how strict their rules are and Niji management would've stopped it immediately. For Dooby, it felt like her past experience inside a corpo plus the technical skills of having her own homebuilt studio that was actually used or some events of other members meant that she could survive on her own. Not to mention that she didn't leave on any bad note means that the community/fan openly support her. She kept that partnership open is also a big plus as well. It really felt like someone becoming successful then leaving on her own BUT hasn't forgotten who supported her growth and where she came from. Hololive was pretty smart on keeping their connection with Ame, they probably foresaw that some V-Tuber in agencies would eventually do their own thing and leave. Seeing that a V-Tuber can leave but still *partner* or collab with an agency is pretty big. Both Hololive or any talent that leaves them wins

[@hobojoe285]

Small note, hololive members seems to be savvy on who can be more yabai than others. I really apricate from a viewer side of things, that a streamer like marine for example can lean into lewdness to her hearts content, as that is her appeal and the management only steps in to prevent youtube being a butt-head rather than anything more.

[@TheGreatMaou]

​@@hobojoe285yeah, I feel like people that complain about corpos having too many restrictions haven't seen what happens when they aren't. I'd much rather some restrictions than them running the risk of being banned, especially here lately where it seems like youtube and twitch are going extra hard on vtubers.

[@PlutopianSociety]

I think that since the ideal moneymaking strategy for vtubers is to join an agency, turn agency fans into personal fans, and then leave the agency and take their fans with them. Agencies are going to start greatly shrinking if they can't adapt and that's going to be harmful to the entire scene as a whole down the line.

[@Exaar]

For what it's worth, I think there's benefits to both styles and I hope that both can continue to co-exist. For me personally, the highlights of this past year in terms of Vtuber content were HoloArk, 7Days, and especially HoloGTA, the latter probably being the single best Vtuber-related 'thing' I have ever experienced. It was a week of pure joy that continues to produce new clips and content I hadn't previously seen. That sort of massive content tornado is never going to be achievable by an indie and its for that reason I hope the corpos (especially Holo) continue to occupy a space in the industry. That said bear no ill will for those like Aqua and Ame who chose to go their own way, or Gura etc should they choose to follow. The simple fact is you can't please everyone, and no situation is going to be right for every talent. The freedom to choose, to move to where you can be the most happy and most fulfilled, is the real benefit to these developments.

[@cleareye_]

I think talents leaving their agencies should be completely expected, especially in the case of Western talents. How many people stick to their first job longer than 5 years? Especially in non-Asian communities. Most of these talents are young, they have goals that don't align with the tough schedule that goes along with content creation. Your favorite talent might have just graduated college with their degree in marine biology and is now agonizing whether they want to take the opportunity to use their degree or if they want to continue pretending to be an anime girl.

[@SariusxX]

Why do I feel like this seems pretty specific? :D

[@Prich319]

Also consider the similarities between Vtuber and Idol culture. Even in Japan, most idol singers rarely continue their career longer than 5-6 years. Only the truly absurdly talented stay longer, and usually because they expand their horizons beyond song and dance.

[@cleareye_]

@@Prich319 I think that content creation in KZbin and Twitch in general is such a relatively new thing that we're unsure what the future holds. Like, if someone has been a KZbinr for 10 years, they are old guard. It hasn't proven yet to be a future friendly profession.

[@cleareye_]

@@SariusxX I'm sure I don't know what you mean :D

[@mandorkuil7236]

​@@cleareye_ I don't know how to put it, your statement to me just felt... bizarre.

[@zurajanaikatsura7398]

In case of Ame and Aqua, i think it has to do with the direction which hololive as a company is heading. I believe, their main passion was streaming and such, but no matter what, hololive's identity was a virtual idol group. And thus, the shareholder would be more leaning into the group's idol activity rather than streaming. This is a homework for yagoo-san. But i think both of them just felt like it's inevitable and choose to leave instead. In a way, it could be said that their decision was egoist and we all heartbroken. But what can we do, other than supporting them in their new endeavor? It's not like hololive, and by extension, cover corp, do bad things to them and force them to leave either. It's a matter of destination. You won't take a train to new york when your destination is manhattan right?

[@mrparkx2]

Why is it a homework for yahoo? He made a virtual idol company. Idk which part he is messing up?

[@TheUncleRuckus]

@@mrparkx2 I believe he meant passion project not homework just a guess.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Yes you would take a train to New York if your destination is Manhattan bc Manhattan is New York. 😂

[@mrparkx2]

@@TheUncleRuckus oh ok. That makes more sense

[@zurajanaikatsura7398]

I'm sorryyy ToT , i thought it's different city lmaoo

[@mouseii88]

It's just the common workplace reasons: Income, work environment, or not what you want to deal with anymore. Although the talents hold a lot more leverage against agencies now, going indie is still a huge risks for the majority of vtubers. The main value of an agencies is its marketing power. Current Nijisanji and Hololive members are already well known, but not for smaller agencies vtubers. Ex-member before the golden era like Otogibara Era, even members who left during the era like Warabeda Meiji from Nijisanji, they are out of the sight of most vtuber fans. You just can't take successful indie debut and assume agency is doomed, especially Hololive had been pretty successful on building new brand, and their new members are no joke. As long as agency don't be too greedy and go stupid, it is very hard to beat their network and marketing power. There will always have some space for agencies to dominate certain aspect of Vtubing.

[@akumuryuu]

What is ironic is that in a long-term, going against what shareholders want is actually way more profitable. They're in a popularity-based business, so screwing over your talents is going to give you some petty change in exchange for losing a lot of fans and even partnerships.

[@GoodOleDFT]

Look no further than what happened to Nijisanji.

[@1mikeap4]

@@GoodOleDFT By their CEOs own admission, Nijisanji essentially operates as a get rich quick scheme. Chasing whatever is popular in the moment and trying to get maximum profit out of minimum short term investment.

[@Marky-Mark1337]

Unfortunately they are many shareholders that are short sighted. Heck I seen some reports in other companies and how brazen on how shareholders can be.

[@GoodOleDFT]

@@Marky-Mark1337 Because they're gamblers, not real businessmen.

[@Marky-Mark1337]

@@GoodOleDFT i see it that way too. And people just look at the "numbers" and trends.

[@TheGreatMaou]

This video is definitely going to be good for the community and definitely wont lead to more idiots doomposting, thanks!

[@darkshaman98]

Most of them are nijisanji members tired of being mistreated, dooby left I think because hololive wouldn't be able to give her the creative freedom she needs to really shine but she chose to remain partly with the company which shows good relations

[@Vandalieu]

I don't really trust the 50% hololive cut you have down, for example we don't know if that's before or after KZbin's cut so tge may just take 50% of the remaining money so it would technically be 35% of the total that Cover is taking. Not to mention we don't know if that changes as the talent gets more famous and they renegotiate their contract after a year leading to better cuts for the talent, there is also the fact that its been over 4 years since that statement so tge percentage might have been changed. Then there's the fact they get paid a salary on top of that.

[@daedrascrolls]

It also leaves out the context of Cover basically paying for their models, rigging, equipment and eventually the 3d model for free. They also pay for every project the talent plans to do in advance, plus providing all necessary connections with directors, producers, artists, animators and Studios. These are all things you would just not have available as an Indie.

[@-Raylight]

8:36 What did you say? 😭🤣🤣 Maybe some of them just want to play games and chat... Life a quiet life No drama, no idol lesson, dancing or singing lessons. Most importantly no bullying... Guess it's a good idea when you're small to gather your own fans that will follow you anywhere. Glad many who graduated from agencies became more successful

[@lleom7838]

2024 has been one hell of a ride; full of exilerating highs, terrifying lows, and everything in between

[@SecretIdentityStudio]

The thing about 2024 is that there really haven't been any popular debuts who are actually new. Every big indie was a popular corporate talent, and every big corporate talent was a popular indie. The only exception might be NEXAS's debut waves, and 1) no individual talent except maybe Poette got numbers and hype as themselves and not "part of their gen", 2) a lot of it was less hype and more skepticism at the "class" system (popularly compared to a "battle royale") so only Genesis and Nebulink really got much discussion. And I say that as a fan of multiple of their talents -- but the ones I'm really into, I followed when they were indies!

[@scyfrix]

The vtubing scene is just too big for debut numbers to be a meaningful metric any longer, imo. There was a window where you could legitimately show up to every new vtuber debut, agency or indie, and they were generally known events within the sphere. That was 4 years ago though. Nowadays, the landscape is a lot closer to streamers in general. New streamers are unlikely to blow up overnight, and if they grow large enough to be noteworthy, it's usually over time.

[@yeshevishman]

VTuber agencies are discovering what talent agencies, record companies, and every type of entertainment industry has known for a while: entertainment is a messy business where terms like "ego" and "loyalty" will ultimately be abused.

[@TheRealVordox]

15:20 *Looks at Ayame, Shion, Roboco, Noel, Luna etc etc who doesn't stream often (Often enough in this case) but they've been doing it for years.*

[@Daniel-jz9td]

In short, I would say: Corpo: Publicity and Networking Indie: Freedom

[@1mikeap4]

It seems in this case the best option is to use corpo to get well known using their connections then ditch them and take your fans with you.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

in a nutshell yeah. gotta take advantage on what you can get until you're full before leaving Corpo

[@mrparkx2]

Corpo also brings concert and sponsorship

[@BDK86]

It's not that black and white

[@Daniel-jz9td]

@@BDK86 It's oversimplified, of course is not that simple

[@sidneyadnopoz3427]

A year in vtuber is a decade irl

[@tk-5268]

A year online is like 5 years irl

[@Tarodenaro]

Don't let anyone doomposting or rratposting on the internet distract you from the fact that we never really know what happened behind the curtain, because the point of vtubing is anonymity in the first place.

[@Black_company101]

Hololive has been doing great considering outside pressure and a-chan leaving although to personal circumstance and the way aqua and ame wanted to go just didn't align with the direction the company was going, which doesn't mean anything bad at all its just they have different goals than hololive does, but aside from that hololive has been doing great with suisei achieving her dream of becoming an idol, mori got one her dreams which is to sing for an anime, justice debuted which has been a big thing for them, not mention hologta or enreco too

[@rugino3614]

"Why don't you expand into china?" "Suo desu nee..... (flashbacks)"

[@smokyjo5245]

Another reason that ties into fear, but wasn't explicitly stated in the video, is legal blowback. Talents are locked into contracts upon joining a corpo, and some have made it clear that breaking said contract during or even after leaving can have dire consequences

[@dariuspemula]

What you are talking here is basically just a lifecycle of every corpo in existence. While some changes are pretty much necessary evils, some companies are just truly evil *coughcoughEAtencentnotblizzardapplekurosanjicoughcough*. So yeah, it's not surprising that a lot of their employees are going to leave.

[@ArcaneMaiden]

A little too early to make a video like this. _Sample size is too minimal_ to make/create comparisons in regards to corpo-vtubers & their personal reasons. So I agree: This is a doompost. ;/

[@pxrmoto]

2023-2024-> the Carpo nightmare year that never ends

[@Primal2229]

Fuck me... all that was 2023? This last year has been such a shit show that wizard gate feels like it was 2-3 years ago o_o

[@ZxosGamer]

But be warned Corpos: Shareholders come and go when they don't get their numbers, fans otherwise will be with you tooth and nail if you treat them well. After all, you're in the entertainment industry ...And _who_ do you entertain?

[@Arvynm]

it's like how many journalist and content creator joining BuzzFeed and after they got big they left the company and their follower following they journey going independent

[@muffinhydra]

The easiest way for Big corporations to retain talent is to gradually increase the talenmt cut.

[@ps4pro668]

I just think it’s (somewhat) because of the restrictions. Dooby is able to do a lot more than she was able to inside hololive, same with Kson. The freedom is restricted, which is both good and bad. Edit: Also,may I ask why people think Mumei might graduate soon? He talked about this in the last stream, but I don’t get why. Is it because she was active on her PL recently? Is it because of something she said? Or are there some subtle signs in her streams?

[@businessgoose123t9b]

I think because she streams less? But I think people forget that she's actually a student so that's understandable.

[@Winters004]

Pretty sure Mumei mentioned she was focusing on college for now. Hiatuses are nothing new for Hololive talents. They all do it pretty regularly. As for Dooby, it for sure was she wanted to stream exclusively in 3D like Fillian. I doubt Hololive was ready for that.

[@gokbay3057]

​@@Winters004 Gen 0 other than Suisei are exclusively 3D already but I guess it could have been more difficult to transition a regular Live2D talent into a full 3D talent like them.

[@businessgoose123t9b]

@@Winters004 It's funny that people doompost about how Mumei is going to graduate because she doesn't stream as much as before but forget about Haachama. You know, the other college student who also doesn't stream often.

[@fablami]

In her PL account she mentioned she's going back to drawing for herself next year.

[@backgroundnoise9310]

Things really are changing. Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[@therealyoshicrazy7618]

When Dokibird broke the birdcage and let fly her wings, she exposed Nijisanji, as they were trying to break her wings from freedom. But she even if she was injuried in the journey and negleted, she later flew away with her wings, even if broken.

[@Ladyラヴェジャー]

This a journey, and eventually will come to an end, but a least we get the memories we enjoy, and we support this industry to the end

[@takenname8053]

With December and January coming up, it wouldn't be a good idea to jump ship yet because Christmas and New Years are big events that will earn a lot of money. But just like this February, next February could yield some big changes...

[@ealberty610]

Losing Ame was devastating this year. I know the talent behind her is now Dooby, and I'm excited to see where she goes from here, but I loved Ame as a character. She was my oshi. 💛

[@dougcummings5686]

So you only liked her for her character cringe

[@purebaldness]

​@@dougcummings5686Less parasocial fans are good to have around, too. Also, you're in the vtubing space, it's inherently cringe.

[@tyran5996]

@dougcummings5686 Nah what’s cringe is shaming people for what drew them in. Let’s not pretend you know these talents personally IRL.

[@dragonbretheren]

@@dougcummings5686 It's a bit more nuanced than that. As DN mentioned in the video (if you even watched it), a big consequence of graduating from a big corpo is not being able to collab within the corpo. Dooby can't collab with Gura, because there's no good way from Gura's kayfabe perspective to reconcile the fact that this dooby person acts like Ame and sounds like Ame (and even looks like Ame), but isn't Ame. No more Ame means no more AmeSame, even if the talent is still basically doing Ame things. Yes, I know Ame/Dooby was an exception that intentionally left themselves an open legal backdoor in their "technically not a graduation", but the same goes for others. Kson will never be able to goof off on stream with Amane Kanata ever again - perhaps with the talent _behind_ Kanata, but never _with_ Kanata. Sana's PL (which I will keep more private, because she specifically requested not to draw the connection) can't keep annoying Ina, or celebrate openly with the rest of Promise. Losing Sana wasn't just losing Sana, but losing a part of everyone that Sana brought out. There was a bit of Ina that Sana brought out as her childhood friend that nobody else has been able to tap into since. Thus, it's not as superficial as "we only liked her for her design", it's also "we liked the chemistry she had with the others that we'll never be able to see again".

[@sampeter1471]

same bro I also miss coco

[@KirbyNPenguins]

6:24 not sure what happened here, but the audio quality dropped here for a bit

[@shayoko6]

when you mention videos. links to them in the description would be nice. that aside, money is definitely a factor. high quality rigged models cost a lot! and you would lose all the fan art made for you. a hard reset definitely would be scary. easier to do when it is a real person on screen. since people know they are the same person.

[@JubalVoid]

Honestly this video is kind of bad. Nearly everyone who left niji is on the record saying they didnt (or in victoria's case doesn't) know if they ever wanted to stream again. Ame had ambitions that involve a lot of off screen time so she didnt have time or interest in being an idol. Aqua just wanted a more low key experience without the idol pressure. No one did this for a shared reason (other than niji trauma i guess) and no one seems to have done it as a path to more money. Nearly everything you said in this has zero backing by any actual evidence or statements

[@ElliotKeaton]

_"Aqua just wanted a more low key experience without the idol pressure."_ Saying this about Aqua is insanity.

[@Drakarys]

I'm very interested in what will happen with Ame since technically she didn't "graduate". She doing the thing "The Ame Way" again may actually be yet another thing she revolutionized in the whole industry. I mean even Yagoo himself confirmed it on Twitter that they are "looking forward to working with her again in the future", something that has never happened before, not even with Aqua. I suppose it will take some time for her to settle in her new identity so we will see. My guess would be that both Ame and Hololive agreed to this "experiment" in order to expand the opportunity for various Holomems and also indies. I don't know if she will "collab" with Holo using her new identity or even as Amelia Watson (that will be hilarious). Only time will tell what exactly Ame and Yagoo cooked. But judging by her track record of constant innovations something tells me that in very near future the industry and us fans will have yet another thing to thank Ame for. This just might be the thing that pushes the industry forward and benefits both corpos and indies. For corpos this means loosen the grip over their talents but more opportunity to collab with various indies and new identities of former members. And for indies to benefit from being boosted by collabing and participating in projects with corpo vtubers. It's not like Hololive isn't collabing with indies but this just may lead to more frequent collabs and projects. I mean who doesn't want to see Nerissa being unhinged and traumatizing not just Bao but all of the Bikini Bottoms. Or Shylily having a monthly meeting with Kobo. Or the mother/daughter duos Kaela/Biboo vs Zen/Henya. 🤣Or Dooby and... Gura? 😳 Or after that surprising recent stream of Nami... can you imagine her visiting Promise for a collab? 🤯

[@tonyfava2944]

lol after reading this all i could think about was amelia coming back for collabs with a steam whistle on her head like dooby so we cant tell who it really is

[@hirotanaka9080]

TBH, the pastlive disclosure abuse rn is the problem, as it was before, and to me all this indie rise-up will get to do is to up the agencies wariness and probably make the contracts way more strict. Yep, pastlife exploit great shine was really bringing matara, doki and mint out of shadows and made the community happy by flaming a certain colorless agency. But now dooby and Sakuna? Welp, as a vtuber enjoyer all i can do is to wish'em happiness and hope that thing do not get even more fkd because of decisions.

[@CSLucasEpic]

SVA is a new agency that started this year with three talents, two were previous indies that joined, and one is a new talent from the agency. The indies said that they liked to join because SVA gives them 100% of the money they get from streams. SVA makes its money by selling merchandise that the talents promote in their streams and social media accounts. So yes, there are new start up companies that offer better deals. However, SVA is a minuscule company with a very, very, VERY small infrastructure. So, until these small new startups get bigger and more popular, I don't think that the bigger ones like Hololive or Vshojo, should worry about them stealing their talents.

[@kayschut9327]

Not to mention that once the agency gets bigger, contracts will be adjusted. They can only really offer what they are offering because they are so small. Because of it's size Hololive has an issue with talents feeling restricted in what they can do (Ame, Coco), or other projects taking up too much time so they can't actually stream what they want to stream to the extent that they want (Aqua). The more popular a VTuber gets the more work they will have, just like anyone signed under a talent agency. Smaller agencies also don't catch the eyes of publishers and record labels. Hololive found out when they got big enough how bad it can be if there are next to no rules in place. On the other hand they provide a certain kind of safety, both legally and financially.

[@treebush]

vtuber is just going through a "death of Machinima"

[@daocvet]

It amazes me how you people think that when a vtuber leaves the rest of us just magically should know who they are or where they go or what new model/id they have. I found Ame as dooby3d by accident, I thought she was gone forever, Ame was one of the Hololive girls I really like but that doesn't mean I am watching every stream. I remember seeing youtube recommend her with her debut stream, and I was like, who the heck is this...oh wait she has a TON of live viewers, but I didn't pay it much attention at the time because I was busy with something else, if I knew it was her I would have dropped what I was doing and watched live. I didn't even know Aqua left, so I didn't know who that pink little kitty girl was you were showing, and if it wasn't for the comments I still wouldn't know because people like you assume every fan has to know everything about what is going on with vtubers. It's super annoying, we aren't all stalkers knowing every little detail, we watch them because they are entertaining and can be some people's form of escape, quit making it like Voldenmort, just tell us for christ's sake!

[@PEDROGARCIA-qj3gr]

They also assume everyone leaving the company is gonna be successful... For a ex Holo or even Niji of course for any other company... Well.

[@CT68]

13:20 Reminds me of how Henry Ford waaay back in the day decided to lower the price of his cars, and raise the pay of his workers, because the corp would still be making a lot of money. But then he got sued by the investors. And the investors leading the lawsuit were the Dodge brothers. Yeah, the same Dodge brothers who started Dodge Motor corp. That story says so much about life, they should teach it in schools.

[@DarthABBA]

There was no containing Ame, she just had way too many ideas and it was just so different then the hololive brand. Also random thought, if Suisei leaves hololive does she still get to be Suisei? I mean I assume so since she came up with the name and look (though I imagine cover owns the models, besides the one she drew herself)

[@mdb45424]

Unless it's in her contract probly not. Ip is massive

[@conspiracyspider]

I mean it is her IP she fought hard to make sure that she would debut as her character rather than someone Holo wanted so more than likely yeah.

[@gokbay3057]

Whether she would be able to take her IP/Channel if she were able to leave is a massive question. Honestly, we can't do anything but speculate. It is not something Holo does so sounds unlikely. But she was an indie beforehand so perhaps she has kept the option open in her contract? Maybe not a guarantee to keep it but possibly a chance to buy it from Cover? On the other hand she was quite desperate to join an agency as an indie (being initially rejected by Hololive before asking again and being directed to INNK) so while I think pretty highly of her intelligence, professionalism and ability to get a good deal she might have full on given it up all to Cover. (As for her original model she drew herself, I am pretty sure she lost it in a computer mishap, unfortunately. Though she probably could do like Sakuna and commission models like her current ones if she were to leave. But I think for Suisei keeping her name and achievements would be the main thing. So imo she's both very unlikely to graduate and that if she did she would be quite adamant in trying to keep her channel/name over choosing the reincarnation and quick growth experience Doki and Sakuna exhibited.)

[@natiusjoshua55]

A retiring suisei seems more plausible than a suisei that leaves to become indie in my opinion

[@PoisonWolf]

Not sure I'd have used the phrase "before dokibird decided to check out" all things considered. But this is a very well laid out explanation of recent events with a plausible tint to it. Thanks for the video nousagi.

[@00Morm00]

The #1 reason why vtubers join agencies is because getting out of 30 viewers hell as an indie can be almost impossible if you're a nobody. The cost of that, even in a non-toxic company, is loss of creative freedom and having to share revenue. But if you can reach the same numbers as an indie that you had as a corpo, staying corpo doesn't seem that worthwhile anymore...

[@GameFuMaster]

Vtuber agencies is basically exactly like record labels. There are millions of music artists, but if no one knows who you are, it doesn't matter how great your songs are, or what your "potential" audience is, because they simply don't know you exist

[@ElliotKeaton]

Record labels if record labels could claim ownership of your likeness.

[@GameFuMaster]

@@ElliotKeaton but it isn't "your likeness". You're literally playing someone else's character. That's like Daniel Radcliffe trying to claim Harry Potter, just because he played the role

[@ElliotKeaton]

@@GameFuMaster You know they're not reading off scripts, right?

[@GameFuMaster]

@@ElliotKeaton no, but you're literally using the assets already made by the company. Why do you think vtubers who retire use A DIFFERENT model?

[@TheBlackSheepBoy]

10:36 TOO REAL TOO REAL but also SAME

[@ghostdragon4164]

That hit me sooo hard cos I was exactly in that position right before the pandemic hit. Thank God that isn't my life anymore

[@luki7614]

Autonomy and centralization? When independent -freedom, go ball, cuss, manage yourself with creaticity When centralized -big event handled easy, management, marketing, dont worry we ball. This is yet another unorthodoxly idol activity

[@risktorise2103]

Many of successful ex-corpo are well established back in their time as corporate talent. They by themselves become a brand. When they become a brand,not much corpo can offer but well established network and possibilities to be featured in big events more likely.

[@G_Yuu_FemBoi]

"Their Agencies" well in case of Nijisanji it's more like they own the vtuber and the person behind it and they turn their live into hell if the person behind vtuber wants to get their own free will and decisions

[@pulledporc5334]

For vtubers who primarily want to focus on streaming games and such, going to indie definitely offers and advantage once they have a fanbase. But making music and doing performances, is something big corpo has such an advantage for. Someone like Calli would be a fool to leave Holo bc she has so many corporate ties directly linked to her brand as Calliope Mori which would get thrown away.

[@KiraAsakura14]

When he just straight up called Henya "Pikamee" I switched to the Gamer Pose. He's not messing around.

[@yumyumeatemup]

Honestly, cant see Gwumbus leaving. She is their top talent in terms of visibility on a global stage. If theyre smart they probably value her higher than a majority of their other talents so it wouldnt surprise me if she got special treatment. She hasnt streamed as much as of late, but that is usually because shes busy doing big projects for Hololive such as the Aquarium recordings for Sendai, or the Sushis promotion collab in Taiwan, and any kind of marketing lead up to said events.

[@alexmercer5965]

Imo Gura is effectively retired as a streamer, she’s really just an IP mascot now. I don’t expect her to outright graduate but I also frankly don’t expect her to ever be a regular anymore. Her growth was so substantial though that I guess both Gura and Cover don’t want to throw that away so she sticks around more for the merch perks and business collabs.

[@businessgoose123t9b]

If in terms of making money, it would be a bad decision if Gura leaves. She's probably making a good chunk of money from the partnerships, promotions, and merch sales. Not to mention, if she decides to stream, she's going to earn more money due to superchats since Twitter and Reddit blow up every time she makes a post or is going to be live. She'll probably be like Shion and Ayame now in terms of streaming. Officially employed but effectively retired, only streaming if she feels like it or is obligated to do so (Ame's last week for example).

[@electricwindgodfist777]

Her IP is insanely valuable. She just has to show up for stuff and makes bank lol. Just sucks for chumbuds who prefer her streams over everything else.

[@DawnAfternoon]

Plus even if she ever decides to officially retire I can see Cover trying to cut an affiliate deal like Ame. Gura is just too valuable to lose as an IP.

[@Zrynnn]

I was also in the same mindset about Gura as what was mentioned at the end of the video. She is pretty inactive and has been for like a year or so now, she already has a huge community waiting for her as Senzawa, i think itll happen soon.

[@riczycortez7742]

The market is so dried up that we've come full circle, where leaving an agency gives you more attention and therefore dominos to other vtubers because they see the potential

[@Bobby-ls4sk]

Maybe it's the whole "kurosanji" trend who makes me think that, but to me holos are leaving to have more freedom or new adventures (don't know about the guys tho), while nijis leaving cause they're unhappy with the company or coworkers. I mean, there is so many clips of ex niji talking about disagreement with the company, management issues or them being treated like shit. Even some of them don't want to stream anymore as if they were traumatized. I know holo surely isn't all good but man, at least ex talents seemed to enjoy their time there

[@PEDROGARCIA-qj3gr]

It's not all black and white, well in the case of Niji yeah is a $hi" company but in the case of Hololive it depends the talent Suisei is gonna stay in Hololive for a log time, she got a career she wouldn't ever dream as indie, the same to Irys and Calli, I don't believe Aqua did it cause she was mistreat I believe she wasn't comfortable by being as big as she got.

[@aguscm4175]

What's the doomposting around Mumei? never watched her but she looks/sounds CUTE.

[@gamezonehungary8512]

doomposters likely ( have not encountered any if they exist ) not understanding she is a colledge student -> Moom is prioritizing her civilization duties over streaming the video could have mentioned any other members with 0 indicators they wish to leave Hololive, like Kronii or Fauna and it would have been an equaly baseless idea. Like woundering if the sun might explode tomorrow the owl is cute indeed :D

[@Avenaur]

Bro why are you putting holo and niji on equal footing. Aqua left after 6 Fuckinh years. That's an insane amount of time at most jobs nowadays. Ame left after 4 years. This is very normal. If people leave within a year like Vivi/Kunai there'a big issues at hand.

[@echosoundz0324]

I think faunas alt shrimp miku post was her testing the water and seeing if ppl would recongize or care it was her

[@TheGreatMaou]

Or it was her wanting to do a silly song without having to go through all the stuff she would have had to as Fauna.

[@echosoundz0324]

@TheGreatMaou yeah u probably right but... iam trying to breed rats down here

[@CapsLock690]

13:20 Base Yagoo as always.

[@Kurtlorinz]

15:08 trying to traumatize us

[@Compa_Doom]

there are a number of reasons why they leave that I think you covered welll. But the main one of "goals don't align anymore" is probably top of the list " well leaving on good terms anyways". at the end of the day vtubing is still a job they do and if they feel held back for whatever reason at the agency then it might be time to bounce

[@Killoer]

10:28 - Mood

[@e-madart9420]

I don't think we're seeing the fall of big corpos, we're just seeing the rise of endies, it's kinda like how the anime industry is, everything started with TOEI, and then stuff happened and big animators and directors left the company and made names for themselves wether as freelancers or in new studios. But them leaving didn't distroy Toei, it actually got better and thriving more than ever to this day. So yeah, the endies will thrive and the Corpos will thrive as well

[@dougcummings5686]

Who's the gray and yellow haired vtuber? 2:05 in

[@kaiselplay4681]

@@dougcummings5686 sunnysplosion vtuber

[@cullanmiller7492]

Sunnysplosion (formerly Kunai from NijiEN).

[@TenkuHorai]

Ame decided a cease of streaming activities in general. She's not graduating anyway as she's still an affiliate to Hololive.

[@itsmeyaboi2768]

Uncalled for Filipino call center slander but accurate asf 😭

[@St33ldancer]

Ya know its funny, i never would have checked out dokibird if it werent for the insane drama around her. But once i did i realized that she's extremely entertaining to watch. So while the situation sucked, I'm glad it led me to find her

[@ATBZ]

Its funny how bieng ex Niji is better for your numbers than bieng a part of the company in the first place.

[@gamerguy425]

I feel like agencies are really good at coming up with character theming, memorable character designs, bringing talented people together and creating big events like concerts, but the lack of freedom, the management and censorship, having to get perms etc. is a huge pain in the ass to both the talents and fans. It's kind of understandable some want to get their break that way and move on. Vshojo is a nice middle ground but I've never followed any of them.

[@georgepatton93]

They stayed with corpo for public notice, advertisement, testing out the water with new shits etc, once they have established fanbases, they become indi for more freedom, nothing wrong with that, it is basically work culture

[@SirDakk]

I have always thought it was interesting that vtubing is following the same path as early youtubers. Before youtubers would be part of multi channel networks, like Maker Studio, until that bubble exploded and everyone went independent which is just the norm now.

[@EmuEmuchu]

Regual Idol industry has been through this same thing back then

[@Ritchael]

I think the main reason why mostly of their fans doesn't follow them in their new form or channel is not only because of the company, but most likely their fans are loving the character that those Vtubers are played and not the person who's playing the characters. It's kinda sad for them to know the person who pilots the avatar are no longer there. It's just like the death of their favorite characters.

[@aquarake.]

Theres blood in the water. The rrats were right.

[@BigNothingMonsterMan]

I just hope people realize dokis success wasn't normal, and was very heavily tied into (i'm not saying was only or even mostly) the bandwagoning of hating niji.

[@alineylikwes]

if you leave your agency then come back with a model made by the same artist that's basically a colorswap of your agency model then did anything change at all from the POV of a viewer?

[@ichiroutakami4189]

yes. it's not the same content in terms of collab at least

[@gokbay3057]

If all you watched (or rather what you liked) out of that vtuber was just their solo content then yeah, there probably isn't much of a change for you as a viewer. If one of the things that made you like them were their relationship and interactions with other talents in their agency however then you have pretty much lost it. It might come back I guess if the talents they were closest to in the agency also graduate and reincarnate like Mint and Doki. But if the talents they mostly interacted with remain in the agency then you as a viewer lose these interactions.

[@HyattHyatt3179]

Depends. Some people came back with models that appealed to the same demographic (Recolour, or kept the colour but changed concept, still mommy type, still loli etc) but with changed content, this is especially true for the ones who went back to their PL's. If we look at Yuko Yurei she still has a loli model and still has the same personality, but the content she does is vastly different and barely any of her fans followed her over.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

@@gokbay3057 i guess that those who followed Sakuna are into Solo Contents and nothing else. its why over 2 Million aqua followers didnt follow her alt Model, they're probably into corpo collabs and idol/streaming events.

[@YuzuFizzu_]

I feel so seen about the call center joke- the high of streaming/making videos can really save