Ryzen 7000 Delidding - Unreal Temperature improvement with Direct-Die Cooling

[@lordseph]

Everyone's doing performance reviews and Roman goes straight for the delid. So awesome.

[@Pilleet]

I was thinking exactly same.

[@TheOmei]

He knows his audience

[@marcogenovesi8570]

when you see 90 degrees with a beefy watercooling like that, delidding is a natural consequence

[@th3master]

Maybe LN2 next video hehe i would love that

[@KenshiroPlayDotA]

A 7900X got beheaded, but it was worth it ! köpfen = behead in German, but it's the verb used for delidding :D

[@naaitsab]

This does prove that upgrading to a thicker IHS to maintain very questionable cooler compatibility is indeed a huge mistake and kneecaps the newer lineup. Roman knows his stuff and deserves way more views with content like this.

[@der8auer-en]

Thanks a lot

[@matthuntelaar8486]

Amd had to make coolers compatible because customers are already forced to buy expensive motherboards and DDR5.

[@darkpitt1]

It's for when they sell the "upgraded" gen 2 AM5. They have to leave some easy room for improvements on the table xD

[@Archer_Legend]

@@matthuntelaar8486 But then AMD will pay this choice for as long as AM5 gets cpus... they might have shot themselves in the foot for the future generations with this choice.

[@erkinalp]

​@@darkpitt1 There is already a room left for AM5r2, such as increasing PCIe lanes from 28 to 64.

[@CatheteriZedEYE]

i wonder if there are companies that would sell de-lidded CPU's with blocks and brackets as a package, those temps are insane

[@guily6669]

Most likely not worth it at least judging people's price on delidded intel CPUs... Even used they sell old CPUs delidded at such high prices that a lot of times we can now buy something much newer and better for the same price sadly... I wish was that intel and AMD would sell a slightly cheaper CPU without IHS cause it's sad paying for something that I don't want and much less something pointless that makes the product much worse 🙁

[@bloodybucket213]

You just watch a video from one !!!😀

[@CrimsonDay92ShaDow6iX]

Right! 95 to low 70 is indeed impressive! Debauer u should update amd of the IHS thickness issues or maybe release a delid kit into mainstream damn impressive ! 😱

[@RYU47376]

@@guily6669 problem is when people tighten it too much and destroy their cpu it will be amd and intel problem... If they release it like that there wouldn't be a warranty

[@jammdoe1873]

They should make the ihs more thinner

[@DrewTeter]

Everyone: "Delidding will be extremely difficult" derBaur: "Actually it's super easy, barely an inconcenience."

[@ole86]

oh really?

[@kaihG]

SO you have a new delidding for me??

[@volundrfrey896]

Love the reference

[@kaihG]

@@volundrfrey896 References are TIGHT

[@Real_MisterSir]

I want the warranty team to get all the way off my back about delidding their product!

[@ronny332]

Delided my 7950x minutes ago. Very cool to see how the product was created, that I used seconds ago. Very easy to use and well designed product. Thanks a lot!

[@HiltonHeslop]

Hey Roman After delidding to get the chip to get dies flat and clean of all indium, after using the blade… Put a piece of paper down on a granite counter and rub the chip upside-down like lapping on the page. The indium does “what lead does” and will rub off on to the page until just the die is exposed and no indium is left and it will be nice and shiny… stay safe man

[@wololo10]

It was a wrong decision from AMD to keep the same total CPU height from last generations to keep cooler compatibility, the IHS is way too thick now and can't transfer the heat of the silicon to the water block.

[@Sam_Saraguy]

It does seem likely that they have given up some clock frequency at thermal throttling temps. How much, is an open question.

[@luigius8590]

I wonder why they didn't thicken the substrate beneath the dies with more layers of pcb

[@wololo10]

@justinthor delusional, reasearch more about the industry

[@Dsaubt]

@@justinthor yeah this is completely wrong

[@HouseOfFunQM]

They can probably get much higher yields through forcing us to run lower voltage. That could partly be why they did.

[@SamanthaVimes177]

My theory is that the IHS was kept super thick for 3D V-Cache yields. IIRC AMD was having lower than desired yields on the lapping process to make the 5800X3D because they had to make it so thin to fit the existing socket specifications. So I think the thick IHS might just be extra thick to give them more room to play with when tuning tolerances and yields for next gen 3D stacked CPUs.

[@Nunkuruji]

Thinking the same thing. Though still curious how much further the cpu can go with the extra thermal headroom.

[@maximus3294]

that's a super interesting and very plausible hypothesis. gonna remember this when r7k x3d CPUs come out next year

[@legros731]

It jus to keep compatibility with am4 cooler the switch to land grid array (LGA) changer the cpu height vs (PGA)

[@orangepacker7479]

Thought the die size was the same for 5800x and 5800x3d? Didn't know about these manufacturing issues.

[@legros731]

@@orangepacker7479 there are no issue the guy only assuming It was to keep the same height as am4 for cooler compatibility

[@cts006]

As a happy owner of a Delid-Die-Mate 2 and a direct die frame for my 9900K. I am super excited for the new delid tool and die frame.

[@RyanEllerbe]

I have a 9900k and wonder if it’s still worth doing this if I plan to upgrade soon since it’s getting old now.

[@Dude-xv4os]

@@RyanEllerbenahhh you dont need to upgrade till zen 5 brother maybe even zen 6

[@yoshika.kuzunoha]

Would be interesting to compare direct die vs delid + LM to see how much of that difference is due to solder joint limiting thermal conductivity

[@TechLevelUpOfficial]

If done right, This might end up being your most successful deliding and direct die cooling product. Will see how you are going to improve it, and if AIO manufacturers will end up adding some proper backplates to make things easier.

[@S3V3RI7Y]

Id like to see more nickel plated AIO offerings to maybe make this direct die cooling a bit easier to do without a fully custom loop!

[@TechLevelUpOfficial]

@@S3V3RI7Y Yes exactly.

[@zkilla4611]

@@S3V3RI7Y If you're going to delid. You may as well have a custom loop. It can be cleaned and reused for many generations. If maintenance is done properly.

[@smileysan9261]

I mean dropping the temps 20°C... i am gonna buy it!

[@fredEVOIX]

was never interested in delidding but 20 is just too big to ignore

[@hquest]

Mixing mechanical engineering with computers is what marvels me in the industry. Kudos Roman for sharing those - even if not all your audience can appreciate it in full.

[@thepopeofkeke]

They been doing it in Japan since forever. You would love a trip to Akihabara

[@myairspace121]

@@thepopeofkeke I was amazed when I visited. As a mechanical engineer, I will certainly be going back to Japan.

[@siontheodorus1501]

@@thepopeofkeke What is there on akihabara? Most of the time it is famous for selling a lot of anime stuff and computer parts, but i never know about this thing. Tell me more about it

[@arko612]

I was going to congratulate AMD for letting a lot of consumers keep using their old cooler, especially if they had high end coolers but now it is confusing whether the 'goodwill' decision was a worthy trade off over such a big difference in temperature.

[@WaterZer0]

Hopefully they'll offer a shorter version for zen 5.

[@sonicbroom8522]

@@WaterZer0 What about Zen 4 3D?

[@WaterZer0]

@@sonicbroom8522 I don't see why it would be shorter, but they could I suppose.

[@DxCBuG]

i wish you could order the CPU from AMD with an incompatible spreader for better performance - so a High Performance Skew. Because the benefits are so huge i would definitly buy a new cooler. You have to get a new board, DDR5 and possibly a power supply anyways

[@Varangian_af_Scaniae]

@@DxCBuG With the price of electricity now, those 15W saved will pay for the cooler in just a few month😉😆

[@pr0xZen]

*der8auer!* If making these bare-die kits, please consider including a _closed (!)_ cell foam "frame" with edge adhesive to install around the dies, to form a sealed barrier between the die and IHS when using liquid metal TIM. Make sure thrøe foam selected can tolerate the heat exposure. Without the IHS there to form a closed cavity, and most users having their MB mounted vertically inside a case - the risk of some LM escaping and shorting something is much greater. Still a somewhat minor risk, but now very much increased, the resulting damage can be very expensive, and this risk can be mitigated without much added work or cost if done at (your) series production level.

[@jierenzheng7670]

Maybe for the 3D V Cache variants, the increased Z height will result in them shaving down the IHS to maintain compatibility. Perhaps this was intended. I wonder if the 95C cap is due to the thicker IHS.

[@slavefeet57]

The thicker IHS is the reason for the temps, however the thicker IHS had nothing to do with the 3D V cache; It's to make the coolers from am4 and am5 compatible and it really blew up in their face imo.

[@oliverwilton5389]

As a CNC machinist and a PC enthusiast, and some one used your 7700k delid kit, this is amazing content 👌 👏 🙌

[@Fenix1861]

As a CNC machinist, how simple do you think it would be to mill out say 1.2mm of IHS thickness (leaving a 1mm border around the outside)?

[@oliverwilton5389]

@@Fenix1861 with the machines in the video, easy. Should work to with in 0.01mm, as long as its set up correctly by the operator.

[@Fenix1861]

@@oliverwilton5389 what about on a manual vertical mill? I am thinking it might be a viable alternate solution (when combined with altering the cooler contact plate) that minimizes the inherent risks of delidding a soldered IHS while drastically improving overall thermal transfer.

[@iemozzomei]

@@oliverwilton5389 hitting 0.02mm pretty easy with an 80+ year old Bridgeport, I'd be more worried about clamping and flatness here.

[@oliverwilton5389]

@@iemozzomei very true, however, I would be machining the IHS with the CPI still attached. It could easily get damages some how. It might take a while, but lapping the 2mm off the top of the IHS, then skim the stand offs down on a laith by 2mm might be the best option.

[@mindtreat]

You are the missing link between the manufacturers and the consumers. Thank you for everything you're doing!

[@tutoriais5266]

Sht up

[@static7985]

@@tutoriais5266 *Shut up

[@trytoclutch9450]

Gamersnexus has entered the chat...

[@wololo10]

He's the chosen one

[@thatsgottahurt]

The flood of reviews today was great, but this type of video is what I really wanted to see. Thanks for always having interesting content thats not the same thing over and over like other channels. I also appreciate having your videos in English as well - I would be fine with closed captions, but having this second channel is very nice, thanks again!

[@chosen1one930]

I can't wait for the stacked cache models early next year or so etime in 2023. As good as Ryzen is now it's only going to get better. Has anyone done a full custom loop yet? Interested to see what how far you can push an all core overclock

[@JockoFlocko]

Wow, that's an EPIC cooling increase. Might be a good idea for AMD to sell delid 'd cores with no warranty through specialty suppliers. That is just insane how much these die covers are interfering with heat transfer... Great video!

[@vaulics]

Excellent video as usual, thank you. Very informative and encompassing much more material than the topic, including all of the findings on the way to delidding the thing like cooler concerns, IHS height, etc. Always the scientist, adding data to the pool. We appreciate you!

[@lennard9331]

This is one of the things I've been most excited about. Thanks for keeping direct die alive Roman 💚

[@TheDemocrab]

It's only just launched and you're already modding it? Never change

[@Oz-gv5fz]

And killed the 7700x 😭

[@Jjanssoni]

Oh my, thats insane how much direct die lowered temps. It would be nice to see 7600x or 7700x overclocking with direct die cooling solution.

[@Morpheus-pt3wq]

Agreed. It´s either about solder bad quality or too thick IHS - or both. Possible cut-cost measure.

[@TroublesomeOwl]

@@Morpheus-pt3wq he explained its because of the thick IHS which was done to keep cooler compatibility with previous gens.

[@Morpheus-pt3wq]

​@@TroublesomeOwl honestly, that´s so stupid. Typical example of a company saving money in a place, where they shouldn´t be saved.

[@PhazerTech]

@@Morpheus-pt3wq Is it really to save money though? Seems to me they didn't want people to be angry about not being able to use their existing coolers. Maybe they could have figured out a better solution, I don't know.

[@Morpheus-pt3wq]

​@@PhazerTech most cooling manufacturers are able to sell brackets for new sockets separately. Or, as in case of Noctua, send them to existing customers for free. But a company thinking about their customer´s convenience? Don´t make me laugh, or i´m gonna go ROFL.

[@symbally]

That temperature difference is incredible. I totally understand CPUs won't ever ship de-lidded for good reason but, it seems like a no brainer to do better here (IHS) considering most people to buy this generation will be needing a whole new rig. I guess they don't really need it just at the moment and can save that efficiency improvement for later. Thanks for the video!

[@rockl79]

I think that at least for enthusiasts they should make a delidded version, for years back in the early 2000s many cpus didnt come with an ihs (granted, this also ended with many cpus dying from chipped or cracked dies). But having a cpu advertised as meant for enthusiasts and also make consumers aware of the risks, I think it could end up working out

[@bschwand]

they used to ship without lid. My AMD athlon had the cooler directly applied to the chip...

[@GoonyMclinux]

Back in the day they didn't have lids, it was good times. 😂

[@JobeStroud]

Was waiting for this. You just can't help yourself delidding every CPU you get your hands on.

[@lIIllIllIlllIlIl]

I can't wait for a delid tool and the Direct Die frame (maybe sold together in a kit?) to come out from you, hopefully later this fall/year! This seems amazing!

[@shayeladshayelad2416]

I dont think tou need the bracket diy modding will make same result you only need to find something to glow to the mobo instead the bracket that will hold the cooling block and fit the cpu if we can buy somewhere this bracket it will be awesome

[@Kknewkles]

@@shayeladshayelad2416 no way in hell I personally would try to manufacture any part of the process myself xD

[@shayeladshayelad2416]

@@Kknewkles lol for me it all the fun im trying to find some 3d printer that will make me something after this vid for my ryzen 3600 i will try to check what i can glue to fit with mu current cpu to direct cool it like this vid

[@SWEJmeister]

I love your dedication for this kind of stuff. The delidding videos are some of the most interesting launch content.

[@Andy61880]

I have so much respect for you for being so honest with your videos. Nothings clickbatey. Even when you promote something you are honest about it. Keep up the good work bro.

[@AMDRyzenEnthusiastGroup]

I'd be SUPER interested to see what direct die delta looks like with conventional thermal paste (Kryonaut) for those who are a bit scared of Liquid metal.

[@montymousester]

@@cbtorture69 if you're scared of liquid metal, then you're terrified of delidding so.... what's the point?

[@chrism65]

@@cbtorture69 I actually used liquid metal in a gaming laptop I had. Took that thing to work with me and frequently had it in a backpack. As long as LM is applied correctly you really don't have too much to worry about.

[@chrism65]

@Kadd enjoyer what do you mean?

[@rdablock]

@Kadd enjoyer just spread it

[@Wrtvrxgvcf55]

@@chrism65 holy shit, you've got guts lol

[@NinjaForHire]

That radiator needs to be elevated off of the table so that the air can pass through, right now your fans are blowing against a wall. However that is an excellent credit for getting the job done that removal tool is great. Another point the fixed screws inside the socket bracket is an actual good thing.

[@Luckyn00bOC]

Whoa that's SERIOUS gain for direct die - I was not expecting that. Really nice work Roman!

[@rafiqulhuda7793]

ada bang alva

[@iikatinggangsengii2471]

so kenal

[@ivovass195]

Awesome stuff here, straight up deliting the new process, big props for fast prototyping and getting great results already. Looking forward to seeing the overclocked performance gains vs standard

[@drdfunk]

The world needs more of this! thank you so so so so much. Please don't ever stop or give up on this!

[@eflarsen]

even though i'm going to be running it standard (no overclocking, no real messing around with the stuff like that) i love all the information i get out of your videos! really interesting to see the kind of engineering that goes into the real enthusiast product market.

[@LayerZeroDesign]

Where can those of us in the US buy the 7000 delid tool and direct die frame?

[@puciohenzap891]

Yeah, this is an early adopter launch, the X3D's will be the ones to have

[@sbrader97]

Yeah those should be insane in gaming probably enough to keep up with 14th gen in games before amd can get zen 5 out hopefully with zen 5 they just make them 3d vcache by default or launch the 3d models at the same time

[@Xfade81]

as if they won't run hot.

[@DuBstep115]

@@Xfade81 They will have to go all in for X3d cpus because Intel will release 14 gen next year and AMD won't release 9000 series until 2024

[@jessesmidt734]

@@DuBstep115 I love how we already assume they're going to skip another number. Maybe we will see 8000 series als the 1000 series as also followed up by the 2000

[@DuBstep115]

@@jessesmidt734 I really don't understand who tech companies can screw up the naming scheme so bad. AMD is not the only one who can't decide their numbers or names.

[@halrichard1969]

I really like your engineering ideas. I would definitely have gone for the Pry attempt first. Your solution is so novel. Get a complete kit work up plus the CPU. I will buy it all. I want a V-cache version.

[@SquintyGears]

This is when it's really fun to be really deep in this hobby. There are so many things you can do after just buying the parts to get better numbers

[@anhiirr]

yep i look at it the same way i look at cars....some "BUILDS" are purely/merely for show....others really build tune a powertrain get an ideal differential and gear ratio for MAXIMIZED power paired with suspension and tire grip thats perfectly engineered for fun/performnace....others just an aesthetic shit show...much like PC build methodology and enthusiasts.

[@seoulfinn]

Thanks for another interesting video! What will happen if you de-lid and PBO2 finetune these new CPUs? Just by finetuning PBO2 some have reported lowering temps and shaving off 50 watts without losing any performance. Combining these two approaches to battle temps should have some spectacular results.

[@SuperDzban]

There is an error in the graph on the lgend i says 7950 stock and 7950 delidded. But the headline above the graph correctly states it is 7900X.

[@LordHypnosis]

I love it. Reviews galore and here Roman is with a delidding tool and direct-die cooling. Mad man!

[@BBWahoo]

This is a big relief, I don't go over 65° on my 3950X at around 4.5, so the fact that you can edge out 70° on 5.5ghz on the 7950X is seriously killer!!! I'm not upgrading this generation, but now I'm ready to get into delidding when Zen 5+ is out

[@kingofstrike1234]

well, there's a coverage done by pcworld that many media doesn't talk about, it's about eco mode in the new zen 4 cpus which limit the tdp to 105 / 65 w, instead of using the 95 ° temp as a limiter

[@BBWahoo]

@@kingofstrike1234 Will check it out, thanks for the info!

[@anhiirr]

only issue i had with the 3950x or from an "upgrade" standpoint was ccx and per ccx cache, zen3 was quite the leap since they did away with ccx and brought upon the zencore/integration of a shared cache pool and simultaneous access/computing/ipc from core to cache vs the ccx design which led to voltage jumps/clock bouncing/spikes ultimately latency issues based on those characteristics. Which even the 5950x SHOWS compared to a voltage tightened/OC 5800x or 5900x by comparison which run games better 5800x>5900x even in some cases where scheduling becomes an issue with less than optimized engines/games FC6 being a more recent example.....BC MY FC6 Came free with my 5900x was delayed 1 year from launch....and yet UBISOFT/AMD lobby yields a scheduling issue for r9 cpus in the FC5-FC6 "MADE FOR RYZEN" franchise....granted 12900k also sees the same issue. Also owning a 3950x led to clock tuner ryzen, Dram calculator, ryzen master being used as well as switching things like SMT off for games like escape from tarkov, cs:go, valorant, siege....among others. Which constituted reboots etc forgetting which setting is enabled for which use/case etc. Looking up your board/bios to see which ryzen power profile is most ideal for your specific build bc its non specific and even bios updates could mean you have to switch power profiles to sustain original OCS/stability or lead to crashes which is a nice ADDITION of work load on a random day

[@Naraayanay]

@@anhiirr kya kehna chahte ho

[@forum42087]

That 7700X gave its life so others may live!👍

[@TiDliDa1]

F 🫡

[@Ambandion]

Love seeing the manufacturing part, since I’m a toolmaker myself and uses those kind of machines

[@knightsljx]

Am I missing something? Dropping 20C is kind of to be expected for direct die cooling? Especially when AMD has tuned the 7000 series to run hot. For those asking why AMD doesn't do this? Because if you crank down on the CPU cooler, you can crack the actual CPU die, cause it's no longer protected by the IHS

[@LucasFS_]

Well, AMD loves when the customer causes physical damage to the chip, that's why they took so long to remove the damn pins.

[@burnsyd17]

I suspect the IHS is so thick to maintain a common overall Z height for when 3D vcache chips come later. Assuming you fully inspected the IHS after delid for consistent thickness, I wonder about the possibility of rather than delid could you lap 1mm off the stock IHS and find some cooler mount that allowed lowering it's contact plate by the same 1mm?

[@anhiirr]

im sure in the coming months there will be a company/group selling lil spacers/washers so you can essentially shim/mount based on MILLS with said spacer kit...for ideal mounting clearance post lap. Like A custom mounting kit with said spacers the way in the past there were cpu "brackets" for the same concept for lapped cpus and lower mounting than stock.

[@paulking4908]

Jayztwocents did exactly that. Look for his video.

[@slavefeet57]

@@anhiirr Honestly if you're going to do all of that. Delid it... It was pretty simple process. I bought an EKWB water block. Took the standoffs they gave me for the block, stuck it in a drill and spun it against a steel file to grind the stand off down. This allowed the CPU cooler to sit against the direct die mate plate Der Bauer sells. I'm running a 7900x3D and at load in cyberpunk it hits 75-77c. That's the highest I've seen it get.

[@DigitalJedi]

With how thick the IHS is, I think you could get a lot of improvement without delidding by just shaving down the IHS and then lapping it flat. You could make a nice kit with a 2-step lapping kit and blocks along with some shortened mounting hardware. Step1: Insert CPU into "tall" guide block. Step2: Use the coarse portion of the lapping block to quickly grind away a good portion of the IHS thickness. The tall block will bottom out on the plate and stop you from grinding down too far. Step3: Insert the CPU into the "short" guide block. Step4: Use the fine portion of the lapping block to get a flat finish on the new top surface of the IHS. The block should again bottom out to prevent you from going through the IHS completely.

[@tuco3148]

JUST DO IT BROOOO.....you will be rich!!

[@5federline]

you're more brilliant than AMD Scientists or Engineers who engineered AMD CPU for years. Success is upon you brother. You & Roman can take lead AMD CPU engineering department.

[@LennertK]

@@5federline The engineers are not necessarily at fault as they are more than likely well aware of the negative impact this thicker IHS is having. It is their management who decided that this generation needs to be made compatible with existing coolers by having the same z-height as AM4 cpus. You don't need to be smarter than the AMD engineers to improve on their design, you just need to be smarter than their management.

[@Wheres_my_Dragonator]

To be fair, pc gamers are easily anally devastated when it comes to compatibility. The backlash from them not wanting to support 5000 series on older boards probably made them reconsider cooler compatibility. So you really have no one to blame but yourselves.

[@DigitalJedi]

@@Wheres_my_Dragonator This solution does in theory allow for cooler compatibility by providing physically shorter mounting hardware. My question is why AMD didn't do this. There is clearly room above the motherboard for it to be lowered.

[@magnetron2.049]

Those are some 7700K's temperature improvements at 20C it's just awesome , as a delliding enthousiast !

[@stephenkent9308]

the reason the IHS is thicker is to accommodate the 3D versions they haven't released yet

[@Redman147]

THANK YOU for this. Deliding was the first thing I thought of when I heard about the 170 watt TDP and 95C temperatures off the bat.

[@tbrayden3694]

Great video Roman! Love how you’re able to figure out the problems with the latest CPUs, like the bending correction frame for Intel 12th gen and the IHS/z height problem with Ryzen 7000.

[@HackoDis]

Is it really a problem though? I need to see more videos on thermals and etc. For me a little tuning and tweaking and i think you could get it running cooler.

[@slavefeet57]

@@HackoDis it may not be a "problem" for the average consumer. However, if you want to tweak and tune the CPU to squeak out as much performance as possible, you're immediately limited to your cooling solution. So it would be a problem if you didn't hit the lottery on a silicon this would fix it.

[@ryzenforce]

It is the 8700k days all over again. When I used your delidding kit for it, the temps lowered by 25C. Seems the 7000s series will enjoy the same threatment perhaps!

[@HellGatefr2]

Ah, what a great CPU that was !

[@JosiahBradley]

Thank you for your continuous double effort in producing videos in English as well. You could just type up the subtitles, but you go the extra step. Great content as usual and please release a new case soon :D

[@rodrimora]

The last time I delidded was a 6700K that i had used for years and didn't mind to break it. I didn't used it for direct die, just to add liquid metal instead. Worked like a charm, still using it today for a NAS, it has travelled and the liquid metal is still going strong. Doing it on brand new CPUs still scares me though, I don't think I could stomach it.

[@waitandhope]

Delidded a 3770k with a razor nearly cut myself never again without a tool

[@rENEGADE666JEDI]

Very interesting stuff! I think a lot of geeks will do it, the gains are huge.

[@psiah9889]

I thought the IHS looked unusually thick... But I *really* didn't expect such a huge difference. Wow. This is gonna end up bein' like, step one to OCing these things, isn't it?

[@momchil_v]

it`s like AMD is trying to convince ppl to buy Intel and tbh if 13th gen has similar performance at lower temps, i am buying intel cpu

[@psiah9889]

@@momchil_v to be fair, if the temp's a concern, you can set a slight power limit or undervolt, which should bring the temps down to sane under load (they're already sane in gaming loads) and at like, half the power draw you generally only lose, like, 1-3% performance, or in the case of the undervolt, sometimes you *gain* a small amount of performance. Not quite to the extent of this delid, but it'll be worth keeping in mind for when intel releases and we can actually compare them.

[@abnormallynormal8823]

@@psiah9889 no matter what you try and do, 7000 series is targeting 95C, so it’s gonna run hot, pretty much always

[@vespa7961]

@@abnormallynormal8823 you can turn this off

[@CptPatch]

Given the aggressive boost profiles being reported by other outlets I'd be really curious to see what stock settings would deliver with this temperature improvement.

[@hateWinVista]

Reviewers: The Zen 4 is so hot! der8auer: haha delid tool go zrrrrrrr

[@Joe_DeSantis]

When will DER8AUER's AM5 specific delid tool and direct die frame be made available for purchase? In addition, which website(s) will it be available for purchase on?

[@der8auer-en]

Working hard on it. I will post an update video soon on the parts.

[@agoogleuser2369]

Kids asking for AMD to sell delidded chips are too young to remember the time when Intel and AMD all did it. It was stressful having to be extremely careful not to chip the edges of the die. Companies like Thermaltake used to sell thin copper shims to place in between the CPU and the heavy copper heat sink. I'm glad those days are long behind us now. The cooler bracket and plastic mounting points off the CPU socket were outrageous too. I remember the time when CPU coolers were mounted directly to the CPU socket. There were no 4 bolts or latches around the CPU socket to mount the CPU cooler like we've had for decades. One time I ended chipping off the edges of the brittle mounting points off the white plastic CPU socket (Socket A) when installing a new Athlon XP CPU. That mistake almost ruined my motherboard. There were no metal CPU brackets like we have today. Thank you Intel and AMD for fixing these design problems.

[@teemu3370]

Lost my Barton to cracked die..... Might still have it....

[@eventslooped]

Athlon Thunderbird good memories

[@Hypnodog_]

Amazing work! Initially, I wasn't too interested in delidding Zen 4 due to how complex the soldered IHS looked. If your kit works out, I may actually go ahead and delid my 7950X!

[@Owenzzz777]

Awesome to see day 1 de-lid and direct die cooling videos 😂 A wild guess on the thick IHS, maybe they’re planning for future SKUs (Zen 5 or Zen 6?) with thicker dies, either with 3D V-Cache, or possibly even stacked cores

[@YouCanHasAccount]

They could go for a thicker substrate as well when the z-space is not needed. Don't know what that does to the manufacturing cost but it's good that the platform literally has room to grow.

[@DigitalJedi]

My personal hope is for some Xilinx chiplets to find their way into these chips. They might end up needing that extra Z-height for thicker dies or linking the CPU chiplets with something like the Infinity Fabric in the GPUs.

[@orangepacker7479]

v-cache didn't make the 5800x3d's dies any thicker... I have hope for zen 5 and 6 though. Stacked cores would mean getting threadripper core counts on consumer chips, which would eat into their HEDT market share, so we propably won't see expanded core counts until at the earliest zen 6. My guess is they will use their zen 5c (the c stands for cloud btw) cores on their HEDTS for zen 5 to experiment and then bump the core counts for consumer chips at zen 6.

[@orangepacker7479]

@@cheshirster Then I'm wrong I guess. Derbauer commented elsewhere on this video (scroll until you see Rabbit's comment) that it didn't so I was emboldened I guess. The other things I said should still be true though.

[@slavefeet57]

@@cheshirster no Vcache didn't make it thicker. They explained it when they rolled it out, and debauer also states there's no difference.

[@rickyma646]

The 7700x you could potentially still use it and it would be fine from that damage. Worth trying it out. I wouldn't put circuit that close to the edge when I'm designing.

[@jameshorourke2]

Great video. It reminds me of the same type of mods I used to do back in the late 80's, 90's and 2k's. I think is time to get back into the fun. Thanks.

[@darthfigures5395]

I can't wait to get the tool and bracket. So many of us are eagerly awaiting these items to be available for purchase worldwide.

[@tiagomnm]

It is also possible the IHS is also thicker to compensate the lack of all around, IHS mounting support. Either way, this is probably ok if it is sacrificing overclocking but making it easier for most users to upgrade. These are already at insane amounts of power and extreme OC users can go the extra mile.

[@kowalski3892]

Damn. Makes me pretty excited about new Ryzens. Hopefully X3D versions will have improved IHS's. I've got a feeling x3d's will stay relevant for nice couple of years to come. Amazing business opportunity for thermal grizzly. Looks like Your contact frame and delidding tools will be must have for Ryzen 7000's ;)

[@user-wc3tz3be1j]

When is this product gonna be for sale?

[@technologylord4017]

Excellent Production Value and Very Well Spoken which makes this a Great Channel !

[@KrisLyubenov]

Amazing review really! I regret not watching it as soon as it aired .. Watched so many reviews from popular youtubers and tbh yours is on another level.

[@blindsay]

Huge temp improvement, that's a big enough improvement that it might finally tempt me into direct-die haha

[@Dan-Simms]

Wow 20° is kinda nuts, maybe they should have just went with new cooler mounts and shaved down that IHS 1mm.

[@mitchk]

Fantastic work Roman... I wouldn't buy this new series AMD unless I could de-lid it and run it with proper thermals as you did. IF you sold these processors already delided, I'd be ordering from YOU.

[@necrossisnk1]

Me too

[@DungNguyen-to1kj]

wow wonderful performance and temperature. This is cooling solution like VGA. Thank you for video.

[@P34kyBlind3rs]

When is the direct die available for 7000 series? You should make a new delid video with 7950x and show progress of your development.

[@JMurph2015]

I want to see the numbers for a 7950X, that one probably has even more boost headroom since it is getting the best silicon and is the most thermally constrained model of this generation!

[@playerzero0000]

Can you do a video on ihs lapping and how that would affect cooler compatibility? And by lapping I mean getting rid of that extra 1.2mm or so of thickness. Not everyone is comfortable with delidding, but if there was a way to reduce the ihs thickness and use an adapter or something for the coolers to maintain the proper mounting pressure, I think that would be beneficial to a larger percentage of am5 owners

[@dawienel1142]

This needs more up votes, delidding and liquid metal is off the table for me personally.

[@samuel238]

JayZtwoCents has made a video about this

[@Ediranii]

I'm interested in seeing what lapping the IHS would yield in terms of temp reduction. And how far do you have to go for it to be viable.

[@mddunlap03]

Like 1.2mm that's a ton

[@amineabdz]

@@mddunlap03 Holly shit, 1mm is a LOT for an IHS, I hope that the refresh of Zen4 will sort that out.

[@wayland7150]

With the CNC machine.

[@ZverevDG]

Mein Gott! Such a brilliant devices, top cpus, professional content and a great english! It's a shame, that I haven't seen you before. Viel Gluck und shoene Grusse aus Ru.

[@richardhunter9779]

It absolutely is the right move to maintain cooler compatibility. We don't need more e-waste just so CPUs can waste 20% more electricity to run 5% faster.

[@Joe-wk9ow]

Hey Roman for those who feel uncomfortable delidding CPUs, can you shave some of the IHS off or Lap the IHS to see how much temperatures improve? I think it would be interesting to see.

[@dei_stroyer]

You don't need to be comfortable delididng, that's why he literally makes a device that does it for you, all you do is turn a screw. So easy a caveman could do it.

[@starkistuna]

@@dei_stroyer is not that ez since the 7700x died

[@WaterZer0]

Yeah I wanna see 1mm shaved off the top and see if you can get 10C off the temps.

[@platinums99]

@@WaterZer0 yah me also, but would you need a custom cooler to compensate?

[@WaterZer0]

@@platinums99 Seems like it or at least a custom backplate.

[@glsracer]

Did you perform any tests with PBO enabled and non-fixed clocks to see what kind of gains people may get by delidding and using direct die for mixed workloads such as gaming where allowing higher single thread boost may be desirable?

[@zkilla4611]

This ☝️.

[@andersonfrans]

Damn, that was crazy temps! But in the end, I feel bad for 7700x, that's really unfortunate.

[@Dan-Simms]

Awe it was just a kid, it didn't' even get a chance to walk yet!

[@itIsI988]

Doesn't even look like the traces are damaged though. Wonder if it still works.

[@falcoquroni1371]

@@itIsI988 If he resurrects, he could.

[@Serachja]

I love direct die cooling, great job! Thanks for the upload

[@madfrosty5228]

Love the workshop Roman , good machining skills 👍

[@Phil-D83]

One guy on youtube recently figured out how to turn an old k6-2+ to k6-3+ with a delid and mod to the connectors under the ihs lid. No one really did deluding back then, so the secret remained for 20 years or so

[@Bayonet1809]

link?

[@sbrader97]

@@Bayonet1809 bits und bolts is the channel

[@Bayonet1809]

@@sbrader97 Thanks.

[@Strykenine]

Roman, I was wondering if you were running the 7950X or the 7900X? It seems like you are running the 7900X since you have 12 cores, but the charts @ 18:50 indicate a 7950X. Thanks for this - I may try my first delid with one of these chips.

[@Wooskii1]

Awesome video! After watching your analysis, I agree that AMD should have ditched the cooler compatibility, it's just going to add unnecessary confusion for the few people that really want to use their old AM4 cooler on AM5... Well, it looks like my EK AIO should fit, but I'm very interested in going the delided + open loop route on the next go around (soft tubes so I can swap parts) tho that's not goinna be anytime soon- I'm absolutely thrilled with my AM4 system, it does everything I can throw at it with plenty of headroom.

[@orangepacker7479]

Unfortunately there a lot of people who just want it to work immediately, and AMD can't ignore them to make those who are more knowledgeable happy

[@majed1000000]

The thick IHS is because they’re planning for the next Ryzen 8000 with thicker dies that use 3D V-Cache to be compatible with AM5.

[@stennan]

Very cool. Maybe you can send some prototype delidding tools to other channels like LTT, GN, HUB, JAY2C (with some prototype liquid metal). Good advertising and you can have a overclocking race.

[@JonLake]

put an non delided cpu in the cnc and thin out the ihs to see if thermals are affected!

[@jake20479]

that is insane frequency for 12 cores on water.. wow.

[@mikep1212]

So is the supplied IHS and AMD solder job bad? 20C difference is nuts!

[@WayStedYou]

No it just doesnt have to also transfer through the massive IHS anymore

[@jamescoon9950]

I did the liquid metal mod to my 8700k the other night. The temps dropped 30c clock to 4.8ghz a500 corsair air cooler solid as a rock. I didn't do direct die though just with IHS. Great product can vouch for it really works.

[@leflavius_nl5370]

Impressive to me that you choose to machine it in tabs, resulting in 1 setup. I've made similar parts, we'd always have to set em up with multiple operations. Pocket milling + drill in the first operation, then add workholding screws into a fixture plate, then machine the rest in a second operation. The guys in my shop don't seem to be fond of tabs.

[@scotthassel8124]

Derbauer, do you have any idea of how much z height difference there will be between the 3D Vcache and straight dies? More importantly, could the excess height/thickness of the IHS be partially designed there with the idea of future growth space? Could the implementation of the cache on top reduce the IHS thickness from 2mm down to a more common 1.5 mm?

[@zyz6325]

10:46 when will this backplate be available?

[@wololo10]

Roman you have to convince AMD and Intel to go back to direct die CPUs from the factory, at least for the top ones, with only that metal ring that GPUs and mobile CPUs come nowadays to prevent misalignemt of the cooler block.

[@TheHighborn]

i have no idea why that's not a thing.

[@karehaqt]

@@TheHighborn It's niche and niche for huge companies like Intel and AMD just isn't worth it. Plus they would have to cover them under warranty which would be a huge hassle.

[@TheHighborn]

@@karehaqt no, i mean i don't get why that's not baseline. GPUs don't have that shit either.

[@MarcABrown-tt1fp]

@@TheHighborn Indeed. GPU's seem to be fine without an Ihs, especially the small dies like 6500xt. I can see a future of CPUs without the IHS. seems like its more for show then anything these days, which is fine I suppose.

[@2ndtwo1]

@@MarcABrown-tt1fp You buy a completed GPU so the die is coming with a heat spreader, aka the cooling solution. Few people open up their GPUs. The CPU is sold but itself, the heat spreader is the only protection from damage. It is not cost effective to warranty more than 5% of a product and without the heat spreader it would be more likely to be about 15% warrantied. This would be from people dropping them, knocking off smds, over tightening coolers, shorting them, and the many other issues with selling to people that have no idea what they are doing.

[@kalonsamulonis5782]

As always... you bring it across the finish line. Thanks

Temps are ok but I would like to see the CPU OCed so we can measure the performance gain and tell if that was worth it. Could it make 5.7mhz all core on manual oc? What would be the max all core clock (as Pbo is limited to +200mhz)?

[@iamdmc]

I like the ethos behind thermal grizzly, but got very pissed off by your response to kryonaut drying out and being basically useless for modern CPUs that run hotter than 80C. Your LGA1700 frame also is crazy in price (in spite of materials and development cost) compared to thermalright which works just as well... and it is still impossible to find in stock anywhere Still, I appreciate overengineering and might buy your stuff in the future. Just not TIM or thermal pads... maybe carbonaut