Paglia & Faludi on Donahue (1992)

[@LucasGonzalez-rj9bk]

Wow, I can not believe how horribly everyone treated Camille Paglia on this program! They can’t stand to let her speak! The host completely dismisses anyone who agrees with her. Camille is such a role model and did not allow herself to be bullied by these intellectual imps. She is so insightful and a true path to understanding between the sexes.

[@johnpatrickhale5101]

You can feel the potential energy building up in Camille as Faludi talks.

[@omalone1169]

12:00 Kennedy Smith

[@saucyjk6453]

2017.Susan who?Camille is a giant. A treasure.This woman faludi is the worst of academias indulgences and irrelevance.Viva la Camille.

[@Clirene]

Analogous to Tower 7 : EPSTEIN 2020 you make no sense

[@omalone1169]

@@Clirene MGTOW it is red pill

[@Clirene]

omalone11 MGTOW is a black pill masquerading as a red pill. Hope your mother is having a lovely Mother’s Day and isn’t it lucky for you that YOUR father wasn’t MGTOW

[@GoldenArtsOnline]

One thing that keeps popuing up in my head is why is there no shows like this today? Where people can talk about their most honest feelings and taughts.

[@piemakerproductions]

The average person could't handle opinions outside of their myopic, delusional, self centered existence.

[@tektako]

You said this only 4 yrs ago here we are in 2022 and it’s a million times worse

[@VoorTrekker88]

For anyone who hasn't checked it out since 1992, turns out that everything Paglia said was true.

[@omalone1169]

Real Talk In terms of study Material Charles Mills writes well in his 1997 text as does George Subira in 1996. In terms of the ink perhaps explore: Anatomy of female power: A Masculinist Dissection of Matriarchy (1990) Chinweizu The Forms of Power: From Domination to Transformation (1990) By Thomas E. Wartenberg. www.academia.edu/1099381/The_forms_of_power It ought to be remembered that "The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them." This gem might also help correct distorted perceptions: Women on the Couch: An Analysis of Female Psychopathology (1987) Pacheco, Claudia Read "The Silent War"(1998) by Frank Furedi along with "The Racial Contract"(1997) by Charles Mills I also link in these two Frank Wilderson clips kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4qzZ6l7rbelfLs Alongside Tommy Curry he is altering the conversational landscape kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaHOdXRnbpx9bck There is also this longer essay on black nationalists x white radicals which it seems Wilderson better conceptualized much later: www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/isr/vol25/no01/vernon1.htm This 20 minite KZbin video on Race and Communism explains lots kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5fFYXVmgLmCftk In it Deadman Animations breaks down white antiracism, essentially applying The 8 white identities theory of Barnor Hesse. Check out their archive.org page at the bottom: archive.org/details/interviewkimdawn And of course learn from the amazing resource which is the COWS media archive. Maybe add George Subira Trower "Money Issues in Black Male Female Relationships" (1996) to the aforementioned list. It completes a disinherited trilogy [e-mail] "Women think that all men are the same, and this is their strength; men think that alll women are different - it destroys them." GOMEZ de la SERNA Learn to deconstruct power Nomasons.wordpress.com

[@NervaTraian11]

@@omalone1169 commenting for future reference

[@amadeusamadeus7896]

Not really

[@chrisjr6535]

@@amadeusamadeus7896why do you say that

[@RobertMJohnson]

@@amadeusamadeus7896 awww. are you jealous you don't have similar prescience?

[@Salmagundiii]

It's incredible to think there was even a time these two could appear on an hour-long syndicated, daytime talk show program; nowadays you'd only see something like this on CSPAN.

[@irenemax3574]

They were part of the zeitgeist.

[@ahmedmahon2022]

Fuck this is like a prayer meeting compared to the crazy shit that goes on today.

[@Muonium1]

I forgot how annoying Donahue was, thanks for reminding me.

[@omalone1169]

Her book sexual personae

[@ts121084]

Obnoxious!

[@Thomas-fu8vp]

Faludi is an inarticulate schoolgirl.Paglia does her homework, she's smart, she's fearless, she's critical, she stands alone.Philll took a knee.And his virtue signaling is false.He went on to marry Marlo the witch.

[@MrLeoYaus]

Decades later, she's the giant standing (Paglia).

[@artyom108]

She is. And Sexual Personae is a tour de force of humanities scholarship that hasn't aged a bit! May she live long and strong. We need her more than ever now.

[@patriciax3677]

That's because the country has changed and not enough in a good way. In my opinion, we've gone backward for both men and women. Americans are notorious for not knowing their history and it's to women's peril that they don't know enough of it. Paglia's been the darling of wronged, angry men and women who don't care enough or know enough about their history. The backlash just grew because ....well, who's had and still has MOST of the power. If you are able to be honest, you'd see that but men who adore Paglia don't want to see it. They love a good girl fight and this was one. Her characterizations of feminism is not one I, at 77, recognize at all. Nevertheless, she makes important points of girls and women needing to learn not to trust men. And my husband, who is a strong, smart, good human being thinks the same way on this issue.

[@artyom108]

So guilt by association basically... I'm 49 and I recognize the moment she describes very well, since I was in university in the late 80s. Also, have you actually studied her work, like Sexual Personae, or are you just interested in the shallow associative politics of it all?

[@robinsss]

Camille Paglia's defense of date rape and statement that gang rape is erotic is disturbing and indefensible ..................she has zero credibility

[@robinsss]

construction is an inherently male endeavor ?...........ridiculous

[@notgerhardnotrichter4951]

Dear God, thank you for blessing us with one of Your marvels - Camille Paglia! 🙏😆😆 She is phenomenal!

[@ComfyCozyShelle]

They didn't let Camille talk enough, damnit!!

[@Rochelle937]

Agree. Faludi kept interrupting Paglia. So rude.

[@jonathankieranwriter]

Notice how, as Faludi begins losing the argument, she reverts to the “wounded little princess” persona, with the shy, wallflower little glances, the fluttering eyes toward Daddy-figure Phil Donahue, as if to say, “The other girl is being mean to me … please protect me.” And Donahue falls for it, responding with the protective male impulse, clearly trying to fortify a Faludi who clearly can’t stand on her own against Paglia.

[@Mark-Smeaton]

Faludi is famously very shy. Cut her a little slack.

[@Rochelle937]

Very well put. Paglia is the feminism of the working class woman, the streets. Faludi is upper middle class, pampered, and expecting the world to take care of her. She calls Paglia embittered, although Paglia is funny, self-deprecating and sassy, while Faludi is a sour puss.

[@thedolphin5428]

@@Mark-Smeaton Well then she should stay home and bake cookies.

[@pianoman551000]

accurate take on this interview.

[@fuentesdevida1106]

I think people see what they want to see. i thought Camille sounded like she was a bit of a mess and all over the place. Anyone can see that and only someone who has seething partisan hate of "libs" would not notice that. I could not really understand all Camille was saying. Susan was classy and erudite. I think few people including us men know or understand little about what feminism is and yet we are knee-jerk reacting to it. with something akin to quiet vitriol. Regardless, I can say with certainty these feminists won the culture wars after all. Everything else we call backlash is really just resentment women didn't stay in "their place". Also, it is obvious how resentful Camille is towards other feminists she feels kicked out or berayed by other women in 1969. This "betrayal" may have influenced Camille's position against other feminists.

[@rabidanimals478]

My love for this woman will never die

[@wasnt_it]

grateful for this upload, its such an intriguing artifact for so many reasons.

[@bradbarnes1839]

Why the F is he quoting and explaining paglia's position to faludi instead of letting paglia do it. She is right there!

[@ManInTheBigHat]

Faludi was wrong way ahead of her time.

[@omalone1169]

22:00 she is running

[@dariodelolmogarrido4045]

@@omalone1169 good spot

[@Redrosewitch]

Go Camille ! Listen to how many women not only agree with her. But who welcome her viewpoint.

[@sxnico]

I love Camille.xo

[@Littlegoatpaws]

Too often did Donahue have to interject about how he believes in equality and this and that, typically after Paglia said something and rarely after Faludi said something, and to the point very little actual debate between the two guests was had and clearly not to offend the sensibilities of his audience too much who clearly fell by great majority into Faludi's political camp. He constantly does what my fellow Liberals do far too often, constantly remind everyone exactly how progressive they are in detail and that they don't mean to ruffle any tail feathers. It gets on my nerves!

[@montycantsin8861]

To be fair to Susan Faludi, she does bring up some things you may even call "men's rights issue" in her 1999 book "Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man". Clearly she was younger and had just published her feminsit book. She still considers herself a feminist, from what I understand. She still has the air of the ivory tower pontificator, though. I blame that on East Coast intellectualism.

[@seancrapola]

Faludi and her book faced a media backlash so profound she was celebrated relentlessly in the media for a year before she was eventually given the their highest award: A Pulitzer Prize.

[@artyom108]

Despite the numerous factual errors therein perpetuated, as documented clearly and rigorously by Christina Hoff Sommers.

With 27 years since this broadcast, it's interesting to look back. Susan has been proven wrong and incredibly wrong. So many women listened to her and wrecked their lives. I just wish these women on the left would acknowledge their stupidity. But they won't.

[@johnscanlan6337]

NO ONE on the Left ever acknowledges their failures!

[@andrewhay2241]

The personal life police out in force. Hatred of freedom

[@raynaclarke3488]

How can any woman get mad about Camille's "we would be living in huts if women ran the world statement." How many women do you see building skyscrapers? Or bridges? Or anything? We would still be living in huts.

[@patriciax3677]

You need to learn more about women's history, then see if you still think this way. Read (as only one example of many) .. www.amazon.com/Longest-War-Sex-Differences-Perspective/dp/0155511866

[@davidhimself2699]

@@patriciax3677 What makes you and your reference irrelevant is the modern world, where women CHOOSE not to be construction workers...

[@luciaom9929]

I am not a feminist, but I thought I would comment on this one. I think women would not need to actually physically build anything if they ran the world statement. It does not make any sense after all, since they are physically weaker. They would just be DIRECTING everything, and that’s the difference. They would, for example, decide what KIND of a building they would like, how the building should merge in the environment, etc…, and then other people (men or women) would make projects, and then men (or machines) would build it. Or, in case of a more spiritually-advanced culture (that could possibly arise as a result of a non-combative matriarchy), we could use things like levitation and other things to move and build things. That’s not possible today though, due to our spiritual degeneration.

[@davidhimself2699]

@@luciaom9929 Oh poop you're a idiot....you've got HILLARY as example of modern "feminism", as corrupt a politician as you can find in any of the men with her fake "charity", taking bribes for favors and half million dollar speakers fees for her husband...worse, a warmonger, with the mistaken "regime change" in Libya, and also Syria..gave us a huge humanitarian crisis resulting in the exodus of Muslims to Europe and all the problems that caused...and of course the rise of ISIS, and all the money the US had to spend to defeat them....sorry, you're an idiot...modern feminism is not gentle or peaceful, it's not any different then the worst of the male chauvinism.

[@d.dedrick7991]

@@davidhimself2699 REALLY⁉️ YOU'RE an utterly delusional, IN-DENIAL, hysterically, hyper-partisan, infantile HYPOCRITE‼️Screw HRC, NOT a fan, nor dem or lib, just a REALIST, however, at LEAST old hag bag Hillary, ALWAYS, & willingly, released HER tax returns, AND, actually PAID SOME, unlike TRUMP‼️ Pathetic, obviously, desperately overcompensating, misogynistic, frustrated, probably CLOSETED💅 'lil mama's boy, LOL‼️

[@TV-fu1ec]

Thanks. Great Piece if history. Love camille Paglia. Nice to see her back then saying the same things.

[@andrefinger5124]

How could anyone think a woman as headstrong and accomplished as Paglia would mean "women can't lead or achieve" when she uses her grass huts analogy?

[@philipschuster6557]

She is obviously talking about the drive to create, rather than the ability to do so. This distinction, of course, is lost on the likes of Faludi.

[@cbrend22]

You obviously didn't read her book. Her point is that genius that pushes the envelop of innovation, is a very rare outlier and men tend to have a greater dispersion of intellect than women, so they populate both ends of spectrum( genius and idiot) far more than women. That is born out in every kind of IQ test, SATs, etc. it's not overall performance, it's statistical distribution. The great geniuses and great destroyers are practically all men, in every society, every race, all throughout history. The premise that women weren't "allowed" is telling in and of itself. Men have rebelled with their lives all throughout history, they never accepted being told no. Great male minds have risked being burned at the stake, not merely condemnation, and did it anyway. Geniuses such as Einstein, Shakespeare, DaVinci, etc weren't even formally educated ( at least the the time of some of their greats works), so it has nothing to do encouragement or opportunity, it's. gift

[@robinsss]

Camille Paglia's defense of date rape and statement that gang rape is erotic is disturbing and indefensible ..................she has zero credibility

[@edwardjohn5]

@@robinsss yes. Zero. Hence her career as a professor in the University of the Arts, since 1984. Even with zero, she still has more credibility than you. ;)

[@robinsss]

well she destroyed her own credibility by saying no doesn't mean no then claiming to be a libertarian…………….…………………………………………………..reserving the power to agree to participate or refusing to participate in anything even up to the last minute is a right that a true libertarian holds as sacred

[@SOS-ct9mv]

At 20 I was all about Faludi at 40 I'm all about Paglia. lol

[@johnadams9280]

Yeah, me too. How embarrassing that I actually bought this book and gave it as a Christmas present to my sister. What an idiot! I cringe thinking about my former naivete. I was the typical brainwashed white knight, ashamed of my gender, felt women were oppressed, you get the picture. Paglia was so prescient. Can't believe there was someone saying all this back in 1992.

[@wolfwind1]

People comment on Donahue's conversational style. It was always a hazard with Donahue. What is important about Donahue is that he would have a weekday afternoon network talk show with Paglia and Faludi on his show and have a serious conversation. Now we have Ellen He was amazing, and transformative for a generation, for his obvious faults. It is a shame his shows aren't available to stream. He was smart, canny, engaging, self-deprecating as well as self-important, funny, had amazing guests, and guests almost uniformly responded positively to him because for all his foibles he treats people with respect, no matter who they are, and comes from a place of genuine thoughtful curiosity and questioning.

[@nunyadambidniss]

Hear Hear !!

[@Teclo25]

The Basic Instinct commercial at the end is pure perfection because Prof. Paglia did the DVD commentary for it!

[@derekdenton]

I also roared with laughter at that. Adds to the time capsule element!

[@BlueSkies32]

Hats off to CP for handling with eloquence and insight decades of harsh criticisms for her viewpoint, can’t say I agree with all or most of he views. But it is of tremendous importance to try to restore the appropriate intellectual perspective of detached discourse in American education. I have two kids in college and to me it seems that intellectual curiosity been crowded out of the university experience with core requirements, the marginalization of the Humanities, and an inordinate focus on fancy meal plans. The Humanities allow us to understand life, the human experience, at a deeper level. Muy importante.

[@giowop58]

I'm glad Donahue is off the air. He missed a good opportunity to have Paglia and Faludi to exchange ideas. Instead Donahue spent the hour being the protective of Faludi's simpering.

[@irenemax3574]

Camille Paglia had the courage to express her opinions honestly at all times, to her own detriment frequently.

[@rewtnode]

Great reminder and reality check about how much and how little this debate has changed in 25 years or so.

[@lnb29]

Paglia is such a boss

[@omalone1169]

24:00 mothers of invention

[@RaffertyMBTI]

Paglia deserves all the happiness and safety in the world.

[@ratso69ful81]

I like her, Camille is a visionary!

[@bensimpson9175]

Donahue was scintillating. I remember him RUNNING up and down the steps to get the mic to audience members.

[@elgeneralxx]

Running around with the microphone ARE YA THERE CALLER?? And we'll be back in just a moment

[@sxnico]

this is great, thank you for uploading. I miss Donahue. Don't make them like that anymore.

[@derekdenton]

Agreed. He acts like a buffoon at many points here, but his style was provocative and he was good at giving controversial topics a decent airing. Something sorely missing from the media today.

[@ahighhorseman]

Watching Donahue in this gave me a new appreciation for the term "mansplaining" .

[@DavidAKJohnson]

Donahuesplaining

[@CanadianMonarchist]

I think he did that with everybody.

[@jimbones155]

Would you tell your daughter to go into the ring with Tyson.

[@andrefinger5124]

When will people understand that saying "you did something stupid that invited harm to come your way" is not the same as saying "you deserve everything bad that happened to you and you are the only one at fault". If I told you to lock your front door, because otherwise you would be stupid and essentially inviting in a burglar, does that mean I blame you for being burgled? No! Does that mean we shouldn't try to get you your stuff back and get the burglar to court? No! I just point out that, had you been smarter, you could have prevented it.

[@gantmj]

Expecting Western women to be at all responsible is unacceptable and sexist to them.

[@philipschuster6557]

I have gotten into so many arguments with feminists over this simple distinction that conversation is impossible. All they hear is "victim blaming".

[@cbrend22]

+gantmj no one is suggesting that rape is ok, or that the man isn't responsible. Ms Paglia wants women to be responsible for their own safety and recognize danger. You're not going to stop rape by telling rapists it's unacceptable, that's idiotic, they know that. The intention is help women prevent rape. Faludi's approach prevents nothing. Having everyone agree that no means no doesn't help someone who's been raped. If women truly understand the danger, they are more likely to make decisions that might help. It won't stop all rape, but it may prevent some, and that's a good thing.

[@gantmj]

cbrend22 Nothing you said differs from my own point of view. I was saying that if you even suggest that a woman should be responsible for their body and their actions, and not expect to be able to do anything they want without ever seeing any negative consequences, that feminists will see it as sexist.

[@cbrend22]

+gantmj got it, I agree

[@robr.5044]

Excellent debate! Camille destroyed Susan.

[@bradbarnes1839]

Omg Donohue is so condescending about the magazine covers. Also the way he asked a very long rambling first question to faludi about paglia.... When you coudl have asked paglia to explain ber point herself and then let faludi respond

[@incredibleXMan]

Imagine trying to have this discussion now.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

I wish this had just been the two of them going at it. In this the case the male presence was truly redundant.

[@swipesomething]

20:38 what kind of host insults his audience by interrupting them in such a dismissive way?

[@GerBarne]

22:15 'perhaps Hillary should run for president' I would love to see Faludi watch this now. It'd be entertaining to say the least. Miss Camille is an absolute. Pleasure to listen to, and she's not bad to look at either.

[@jamestyler7697]

The big surprise for me anyway is that Paglia is seen to be very openly pro-Hillary, here; a big surprise considering how adamantly she's been against her as long as I've been following her. My guess is that her view changed somewhere between the Lewinsky scandal and the Senate win in 2000.

[@juliencastle2953]

That's one more sign of intelligence from Paglia. She challenged her original views along her career, something many famous intellectuals are sadly too proud to do.

[@phryxolydian]

Camille is pro-Hilary? She destroyed her on spiked's interview with Ella Whelan and I think that's from 2016.

[@derekdenton]

@@jamestyler7697 That's exactly right. She was appalled by mainstream feminism's pass given to Bill Clinton's abuse of power that he had over his intern, Monica Lewinski. They should have sided with Lewinski instead of excoriating her, as Hillary Clinton herself did. Paglia by then was also dismayed by Hillary, as First Lady, attempting to get massive healthcare reform rolling in the early Clinton administration then Hillary projecting entitlement to a Presidential candidacy because of proximity and desire and not merit. I disagree with Paglia when in an interview with Andy Cohen and Frank Bruni "I would never vote for Hillary!" (I voted for her in the general election, and for Bernie Sanders in his successful Oregon primary) but it's easy to understand where Paglia is coming from.

[@ledhicks]

At times it's uncomfortable to watch how condescending, arrogant and ludicrous Donahue was. He and Faludi and the audience jumping on Paglia's throat (not getting the broad perspective of her ideas) . But she held her own gracefully--feisty as always and grounded in common sense.

[@asielnorton345]

The difficulty of these discussions is that both women are right. Society has historically oppressed women and should be more open. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. There are legitimate differences between the sexes. But it’s also true that men have used the differences to exploit women.

[@asielnorton345]

elrynx2 I’m not going to write a novel on human history in the comment section of KZbin. But if that’s a real question you have, then my honest opinion is to check it out in some history books. Voting, land ownership, basic civil liberties, rights over their own children and bodies have consistently been denied women throughout history. But to give a common every day example of how men have used those differences to this day, I’d say rape is a fairly blatant example of using the differences in strength and body size as means of exploitation.

[@chumbucket66]

Wow ... when television programming was actually GOOD.

[@seemoretoys5944]

This was back in the time of pre WWW. Only Prodigy, CompuServe, and many many dial into BBS's. Fun times.

[@timb9257]

Just an FYI, when I attend engineering schools in the 80s, I wish there were women in the class. Female engineers I work with now, need help on technical stuff, though they are really good at organization, and cross functional teamwork. So I agree with Camille, based on my experiences, women and men are nuerologically (biologically) wired differently.

[@noellawr]

thanks for posting this

[@elgeneralxx]

2:22 THEY CUT OFF THE DAMN DONAHUE THEME SONG HOW COULD YOU?

[@wadeq926]

The reaction shots of the audience, my god... This is better than Tim and Eric (and fifteen years earlier) because it's not even satire. THIS IS WHAT TV WAS LIKE

[@ThatKillerQuote]

Yes 😂

[@YungM.D.]

I found it really ironic that they had the trailer for Basic Instinct playing during this program

[@Ludo2300]

Thanks for posting!

[@marydougans8211]

Paglia remains undefeated

[@cobraflunkie]

This is the most frustrating thing to watch. He talks more than his two hosts combined.

[@thedolphin5428]

My god, Faludi is a cream puff. And that is even WITHOUT any comparison to Paglia!

[@MaryBrace]

Both of these women are smart and wonderful contributors, and I'd love to see a rematch, now that Faludi has more media time under her belt and might be as entertaining as Paglia in public debate.

[@gg_rider]

I didn't remember the Tyson v Washington case, but there's common slang used by women and men for an adult woman going to a man's hotel room late at night or early morning, and that's "booty call". It's not "a date". A date is when you meet for lunch or dinner and/or movie or a couple drinks, or even dinner inside his or her apartment. Three in the morning at a stranger's hotel room - in the absence of some clear and compelling exception or emergency - is widely understood to be driven by sexual hunger or "sexual emergency" as it has been called in verse.

[@armedpartisan]

What a difference a quarter-century makes. Faludi seems entirely reasonable, and argues her case eloquently, rationally, and with facts and statistics; completely and wholly different from how feminists have opperated ever since. Paglia, however, has the better end of the argument, and time has proven her views to be wholly correct.

[@hectormata449]

I posit that Ms Faludi was collating into her book all the fake feminist data and statistics to promote her anti-male bias.

[@robinsss]

women shouldn't complain about date rape?................Camille Paglia's defense of date rape and statement that gang rape is erotic is disturbing and indefensible ..................she has zero credibility

[@robinsss]

construction is an inherently male endeavor ? ...........ridiculous

[@adamkatz6532]

my favorite aspect of paglia in this video is that she isn't interested in stopping the argument for the cameras.. she's leaping into another discussion during the breaks... which I love because she's itching get this stuff out to someone somewhere, to hear what the consequences of her thoughts are in the minds of the people she's reaching.. i think that is something to pay attention to because it suggests that she's attempting to seek truth (whereas i watch most intelligent people debating and interviewing only as a source to glean brief moments of efficacy and talent and tangential implicit knowledge without expecting that they'll knowingly or deliberately express their actual viewpoints).

[@patriciax3677]

Adam, that's an interesting point...but I don't think I see it the same way. To me, she is like a machine gun that doesn't really care much about any particular point whereas Faludi appears to be someone who cares less about winning and more about understanding.

[@markobrien3859]

What on earth does "glean brief moments of efficacy and talent and tangential implicit knowledge without expecting that they'll knowingly or deliberately express their actual viewpoints" mean?

[@thedolphin5428]

The short cut-aways to Camille, while Faludi is talking, shows her ready to pounce and EAT Faludi!

[@Mark-Smeaton]

"Backlash" was one of the most brilliant feminist books of the so-called third wave. Brilliantly researched and she debunked so many myths. Her chapter on how the backlash extended to Hollywood films and tv shows was so insightful and very funny too. Not quite sure what happened to Faludi after that. Don't get me wrong. I do love Paglia too but more as a provocateur and a personality - in fairness, I haven't read much of her work.

[@omalone1169]

15:30 Tysoe again

[@josephmercado9435]

I've never felt this before..

[@TheJamesroy3]

FALUDI---looks like a melting candle. Camille is just dynamic! There's a strong anti-male currant in the gay community-- intertwined with current feminist ideology- As a gay men I was just miserable ....it fed upon, demonized & contradicted my natural desires. As gay men we must reconcile our connection with straight men. I haven't changed myself for doing such, in fact I've accepted more of myself.

[@philipschuster6557]

There is a very anti-male tone to the radical lesbian feminist click. There is an anti-hetero bias among the more extreme ones. So they will tolerate gay men who accept their feminism by checking their "male privilege" and who distance themselves from the arch enemy - STRAIGHT MEN. Check out "The Woman Identified Woman" by the RadicalLesbianCollective 1970. library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/wlmpc_wlmms01011/

[@sayalip4222]

philip schuster that sounds abominable. And who fights their wars? Who patrols the borders? Can they even call themselves women anymore or are they robots?

[@GerBarne]

james gammage Gay and straight men have very similar thought processes. Except for when it comes to sex and relationships, but that's because gay men interact with other men in such situations. We've to deal with women! Who are really the crazy ones? Haha

[@djanitatiana]

Dude, there never has been a stronger impetus driving an alliance between gay and hetero men than third wave feminism. Two things: the taboo of gay sex amongst hetero has declined massively (viz: "no homo" tongue in cheek gags, widespread embrace of gay social icons representing male interest) and second: The blitzkrieg on masculinity hasn't stopped at overt he-man behaviour but is a relentless push to invalidate any masculinity not defined by women. Straight & gay alike, that is a soul destroying (literally in many cases) attack on identity and no wonder so many gay men are antifeminist. Or as I like to call it "feminist". You don't call a person who doesn't believe in divinity an anti-theist.

[@juliencastle2953]

bad mojo: Gosh I'm so glad to read that! I'm gay and I see plenty of people assuming gays are all extreme leftist/ Hillary Clinton fans/ feminists "in a Faludi style" / SJWs etc because medias mainly show these ones... What you describe is exactly what I see rising and way closer to the truth. :à

[@lancedukel3436]

Ask Camille what she thinks of Mrs Clinton now.

[@B-WEW]

Oh the good ole 90s when conversations of opposing views were the norm!

[@elgeneralxx]

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE CUTTING OFF THE DONAHUE THEME SONG??

[@raynaclarke3488]

Single women are happier, bwahhahaha! No, thats what they tell themselves.

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

Rayna Clarke I am a male, and let me tell ya, its not that great being single...so I agree with your statement.

[@Ella-vo6jo]

The "wooo!" Girls

[@tapasyatyaga4041]

Level headed woman alert

[@Sophie_kent]

Rayna Clarke very happy. No drama. No need to show off fake happiness on Instagram. The only people who have issues with single women are married women.

[@amadeusamadeus7896]

Can anybody tell me where can I find the study mentioned here 28:34?

[@adamsasso1]

My goodness the hair styles in the audience...

[@nateninkourouma5874]

Do you mind if I ask where you get these old episodes of the Dominguez sho? I’m trying to look for an episode that aired in 1989. It’s called “wilding” episode it talks about the rape in glen ridge . I’m trying to use a snippet for research .

[@derekdenton]

This was serendipitous that I caught this. I was a Paglia fan, turned on the tv, saw she was on and got a VHS tape into the VCR as soon as I could. I don't have good advice on how to get archived episodes. Maybe some media company holds the rights that you could contact?

[@ladanmahgoub4769]

What got cut off at 28 min

[@fdpcompdm]

18:23 haha paglia is telling the truth

[@lizardpeoplepoetry]

I'd say Faludi was hotter at this point than Paglia, but Paglia has def aged better than Faludi.

[@azngoku666]

the basic instinct commercial at the end really capped it off nicely

[@unfortunatebeam]

Also some of those hidden female inventors Faludi mentions (when she references the book Mothers of Invention) are debatable and dubious. For instance, there's no solid evidence except for one person's claim that Catherine Littlefield Greene provided a crucial idea to the development of the cotton gin. Even if she did, that would seem to make her more co-inventor than the sole inventor. And Lise Meitner didn't soley come up the the theory of nuclear fission on her own, she was part of a team of four people, and it's not like she was pushed to the side either, she was always given full credit for being one of the formulaters of the theory. Same for Rosalind Franklin, she wasn't marginalized, she simply died 4 years before the others involved in the discovery of the DNA structure won the nobel prizes, and the rules were that they could not award people who died, whether male or female. There was another woman who won the noble prize in physics right around the same time Franklin could have won for chemistry if she were still alive, so you can't say they discriminated against women or tried to keep them hidden. Anyway, whatever.

[@patriciax3677]

you've proven you're a guy and one who's part of the problem...and proof that as the old saying goes "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing"...you don't know enough, but you're too emotional on this issue, so I doubt you'll put any effort into educating yourself further...you enjoy your prejudice too much

[@vince7735]

What happened to Part II of Sexual Personae 32:13 ?

[@timb9257]

Faludi, "women invented the ironing board" about 24:15

[@greywinters4801]

By I forgot just how arrogant Donahue is, was ,has been.

[@drjohnson7820]

Is that Phil Hartman ?

[@jon4139]

The quality of the call-ins is really kind of impressive. Were normies always this well-spoken and coherent in the pre-internet age? Just the vocabulary seems a step above average.

[@joaquinvargas3915]

Yes. Diction and vocabulary has plummeted in quality in the past 30 years.

[@fuentesdevida1106]

I think people see what they want to see. i thought Camille sounded like she was a bit of a mess and all over the place. Anyone can see that and only someone who has seething partisan hate of "libs" would not notice that. I could not really understand all Camille was saying. Susan was classy and erudite. I think few people including us men know or understand little about what feminism is and yet we are knee-jerk reacting to it. with something akin to quiet vitriol. Regardless, I can say with certainty these feminists won the culture wars after all. Everything else we call backlash is really just resentment women didn't stay in "their place". Also, it is obvious how resentful Camille is towards other feminists she feels kicked out or berayed by other women in 1969. This "betrayal" may have influenced Camille's position against other feminists.

[@corbielentertainment]

Hey a nuanced view

[@russellgrant1535]

26:41 Poor Susan. Bless her heart.

[@belleofkilronan8565]

YAS!

[@vince7735]

Why would anyone need a transcript of the program?

[@derekdenton]

Quoting for later use in articles, help for the hearing impaired, lots of reasons. These episodes aired once and then were gone. Transcript was the only real way to get a record.

[@darrelhicks9034]

Beauty is a mind set and lifestyle not just looks

[@tag7299]

Watching the younger Camille made me realise the similarities between her and Milo Yiannopoulos.

[@haakonkarlsen4065]

this is really good. love paglia

[@avantgardenovelist]

26:42 dude's got the whole clap for the camera thing nailed.

[@srijanagrawal255]

Camille paglia is just a million leagues above susie here

[@chopin65]

Picture him saying those misogynist things today as he did in jest (Donahue was not a misogynist) today, and he would have been off the air in a week's time.

[@rhino79]

Faludi looks so gloomy and sad. She looks like Sissy Spacek in Carrie.

[@jonathankieranwriter]

rhino79 Faludi is playing the sweet little delicate girl-flower. Her ideas are dead dead dead. And Phil Donahue was one of the greatest old ladies ever. Phil Donahue was an old biddy. Camille rocks FOREVER.

[@rkrw576]

I think Faludi is getting comfortable as a speaker, she was new to the scene and young. Paglia is comfortable already with her public persona.

[@sxnico]

I think she looks beautiful. They both do.

[@davelind3177]

gloria steinham worked for the cia thats why her particular iteration of feminism is so divisive and infantilizing

[@Rochelle937]

Thank you for saying this. You are right on. Same with Betty Friedan, who twisted and distorted her statistics. Actually, the 50s women were very happy and satisfied. I grew up at this time and saw it for myself. The women were treated as queens and the husbands were kings. It was a relaxed time, without both parents working, stressed, and barely

[@caedmonsdream]

Fascinating discussion. But feminist discourse needs more Paglia thinkers!!!

[@tektako]

Any fool knows when yes means yes and no means no but it takes real skill to know when no means maybe and yes means fine then.

[@kahwigulum]

"My penis, my choice!" -Donahue, 1992

[@andyk6792]

IT'S A PENIS, NOT A CHOICE!

[@m3rbs]

wtf is that stat faludi gives at 13:38

[@derekdenton]

I genuinely missed that for all the times I've watched this. Thanks for mentioning it. Holy moley, that's a daffy claim.

[@BeholdItKnits]

@@derekdenton Nah. www.huffpost.com/entry/men-killing-women-domesti_n_5927140 and www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides-women/534306/