Destiny And David Pakman CLASH In Rittenhouse Debate

DEBATE: Destiny and David Pakman clash in Rittenhouse debate...
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Date: 18 Nov, 2021
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0:00 - Teasers / Intro
0:40 - Rittenhouse trial context
15:15 - Destiny talks to David Pakman
1:05:05 - Post debate Q&A
1:10:37 - Surfshark VPN
#Destiny

[@destiny]

surfshark.deals/Destiny Kenny and Dpak debate about the Rittenhouse judge and trial | check out David Pakman ►kzbin.info Destiny's Rittenhosue playlist ►kzbin.info/aero/PLFs19LVskfNyAurk3ukoZCLicrPIyPw7j Destiny Surprised By David Pakman's Take ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/mp7OZICveperrsU

[@paultoc2657]

Okay whatever bro

[@aserabus]

Destiny, there are many things that i disagree with you. However, Watching you literally rip these idiots to shreds based upon facts is truly a site to behold. MUCH RESPECT TO YOU AND I HAVE SUBBED AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR RIPPING PACKMAN TO SHREDS.

[@j2a2m]

Is Pakman gaslighting? Psychopathy?

[@Wowwhataswing]

@@aserabus He’s much better at decimating republicans. Those are top tier this was kinda dumb honeslty.

[@mypartyisprivate8693]

@@Wowwhataswing Don't be sad he's still on your team. We know that's all that matters lol

[@moonlightrouge3956]

I feel as if this conversation would have gone a whole lot better if they just dropped the tension and called each other psychotic a couple of times.

[@mariomario1462]

@@user-gc1wj8tt2p uh destiny talked about it all the time and pakman said it might be in inappropriate but destiny was fine with it.

[@squeakypistonproductions2228]

Yeah because packman is on trial for being a grifter so of course hes bitter.

[@880330145789]

Destiny did a good job here.

[@godiebeard]

@@user-gc1wj8tt2p maybe the true autistics were the friends Destiny made a long the way (specifically D Pakman)

[@matangox]

Destiny was acting like he always does. Pakman was the one with srange vibes. I never heard him using so many ad hominems. But Destiny still wasn't able to capitalize on it.

[@JoshuaStranger]

This is like watching a normal human being try and debate a politician.

[@Achillusgaming]

Legit though LOL. David is actually just a politician operating as a pundit. Just pathetic performance by him.

[@joshuabray37]

That's a great way of putting it.

[@amandarios448]

40 minutes, that would have fit in 5 minutes over that exhibit

[@hunkallgood73]

Yeah destiny can be insufferable for sure but not nearly as insufferable as his unhinged, incel-heavy following.

[@upsidedownamerica]

0 common sense when these 2 talk. Cant stand either one.

[@realranger6297]

David walks in asking if hes mentally well, ends it asking if hes autistic. David seems nice.

[@gangster125]

Given Destiny’s childish tweets, it was a fair question to ask. I would have too.

[@markfregly4148]

Ha!

[@callum6224]

Are you seriously calling David Pakman mean? Destiny’s tweet was really weird and rude and then he was super shitty in their conversation.

[@realranger6297]

@@callum6224 yeah asking people if they are mentally well as a conversation opener is mean and passive aggressive behaviour.

[@callum6224]

@@realranger6297 And like I said in my last comment, Destiny was a dick before even that, in his tweet. So he was the one being a dick

[@doingthings5735]

This was an exercise in gaslighting. Destiny is honest in how he feels, and doesn’t misrepresent himself. I don’t agree with Destiny a lot of the time but I would never mischaracterize his position like David did here. It’s pathetic.

[@plaguepug2091]

Exactly, and then accuse Destiny of mischaracterizing and strawmanning him the whole time. The projection is strong in this one.

[@michaelrandall7667]

That guy Packman is a sleezebag. I have a love/hate opinion of Destiny. When he's speaking on objective subjects, he's great. I agree with him 100% of the time. When it gets into subjective topics like politics, he's the absolute worst, but he is at least genuine.

[@Azzury.]

He came in crying off the bat “it might be shorter than you think” what a perpetually offended, outrage mongering little crybaby.

[@gangster125]

@@Azzury.😂wtf. This entire conversation started with Destiny posting tweets saying Copium and stuff. But sure it’s the other guy that’s the crybaby.

[@jacobosborn8584]

lmaoo this comment thread is pure cope…destiny reached out to david to have the debate practically begged him to have a convo then proceeded to accuse david of being a debatelord?!?! 😂😂😂 You guys are lost in the sauce Go outside

[@Jay-eb7ik]

The fact that David's chat thinks Destiny, of all people, is right wing for opposing his argument is scary shit.

[@adamkingston2231]

Lol look at Destiny’s level of scrutiny for anything a lefty says vs what say … Lauren Southern.

[@edwardhim2276]

@@adamkingston2231 He's usually cool with lefties, unless it's vaush and demonmama

[@brotbrotsen1100]

@@adamkingston2231 So you actually think he is right wing? Destiny, really??

[@adamkingston2231]

@@brotbrotsen1100 no, but he acts like one. I’ve watched him long enough to understand that he is left wing on most issues. It’s similar to the way people call Jimmy Dore right wing because he only criticizes democrats.

[@brotbrotsen1100]

@@adamkingston2231 To make the side you support the best it can be you have to hold them to higher standards. I rarely care what the right is doing but i will call out the left when i feel like they shine a bad light on everyone else. Just accepting everything won't help.

[@Derpadeedooda]

Pakman is so good at gas lighting and passive aggressiveness. It's rather impressive.

[@judah970]

Not only is Pakman an exceptional gaslighter, but an extremely talented “victim” as well. Pakman: “Very surprising that there would be a mass shooting at a Christian school, given that lack of prayer is often blamed for these horrible events. Is it possible they weren’t praying enough, or correctly, despite being a Christian school?” Pakman, after people called him out about his bigoted tweet: “Alright, too many antisemitic attacks and threats to my family. I’ve delete the tweet.”

[@bobbyboywonder12]

PaKyman puts off big time narcissistic vibes.

[@steven1479]

​@@judah970 Many such cases.

[@hmd6202]

Pakman is so impressed by his perceived high level of intellect, he is incapable of zooming out and realizing he is nothing more, than a misinformed, self absorbed, vapid, hyperbolic, circular talking strawman, with not an once of actual life experiences. Pakman is the literal 🤡 of the left. As disingenuous as it gets.

[@victorvanvolt8425]

​@@judah970 I wanted to say something but now I'm fascinated by writing from right to left.

[@gerhitchman]

pakman: "hey man its just my opinion its not serious or anything" destiny: "ok so then this whole thing is a joke and we shouldn't justify our opinions on anything?" pakman: "whoaaa chill out man you're trivializing me"

[@gangster125]

Oh wait. So I’m wrong then. Destiny isn’t the only one in the world who couldn’t understand a simple thing David said. Ok, well I stand corrected. It was apparently too complicated to at least one other person then

[@slaapliedje]

​@gangster125 Pakman is... one of those who uses big words and makes him sound really intelligent... but it is all a farse. I don't always agree with Destiny, but usually, his arguments are fairly sound.

[@gangster125]

@@slaapliedje I mostly agree with Destiny but his arguments were way too silly here.

[@jacobosborn8584]

@@gangster125these comments are just sad. Like this community thinks that because destiny calls himself a liberal and puts rittenhouse up on a pedestal that that makes them special. When it just means they’re cringe. Destiny was clearly in debatelord mode with that tweet practically begging DPak to come on stream and then when he couldn’t get what he wanted out of him he gets butthurt and tries playing the victim. Naturally his community follows suit. Pretty depressing honestly.

[@suarezguy]

Destiny did, likely disingenuously, exaggerate I am trying to be entertaining into I'm just entertainment.

[@cqpzg]

The fact that David can't understand why someone would become frustrated when talking to him show just how out of touch with reality he is.

[@rexnemovi6061]

@cqpzg Sorry but you're way too trusting. David not only understands perfectly well why people would become frustrated when talking to him. He knows how to - and intentionally does - irritate and frustrate people to get them angry and emotionally off-balance which both distracts them from focusing on logical arguments and steers them towards responding to distracting insults, and at the same time, it makes them look less rational and thus undermines their credibility. He is in excellent touch in reality - just not for the purpose you would be in touch with reality. He is not innocently mistaken, he knows exactly what he does and why. And it's no good.

[@smashedxtomatoes3267]

@@rexnemovi6061 he seems very interested in keeping his internet audience in favor of him by making outlandish commentary on political topics while playing the "its just a joke" card. on one hand he admits to being sensationalist to be entertaining and then asks for his "opinions" to not be trivialized. this was a silly little word game to get views. pretty scummy.

[@rexnemovi6061]

@@smashedxtomatoes3267 Absolutely. But it is true that he is pretty good at doing all the bad things he does. He knows his bag of dirty rhetorical sophist tricks and he is quite quick on his feet deploying them.

[@zhugh9556]

Personally my biggest issue with Pakman is his condescending passive-aggressive nature. Starting out making fun of Destiny misusing a word when Pakman knew exactly what he was trying to say.

[@MrFrussel]

Yeah exactly. I think it's his way of trying to make his debate/conversation partner lose grip on the conversation. Ok for online debate stuff I guess. However, IRL I would drop someone pulling that kind of shit on me without thinking twice about it. This kind of behavior brings really negative vibes to any kind of interaction.

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

Yeah he was very rude and condescending to Destiny in this discussion

[@markzuckergecko621]

You can see why Pakman appeals to stupid people who like to pretend like they're smart.

[@freeman7079]

That’s what Pakman does, he focuses on non issues when he’s losing a debate. He condescends to his own discord callers. He’s a master at it. His fan base is so brainwashed it’s sad,

[@drearmouse9510]

As opposed to Destiny who's a sparkling example of being reserved and mindful? ..what a laugh. To be honest, they're both dickheads in their own special way, so good stuff all in all.

[@Superabound2]

As soon as Pakman realized he was losing the argument, he IMMEDIATELY stopped even talking about the Rittenhouse trial and talked EXCLUSIVELY about Destiny being "mad". He's a snake. A snake who lost the debate.

[@livingter5079]

He can't help it.

[@jackreacher4297]

‘It’s Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled’

[@tunasandwich8049]

Basically a classic debate tactic done by sociopaths: gaslighting

[@dickmonkey-king1271]

So strange. A while ago i got a recc for Pakman, watched 2 minutes of it and thought... 'this dude is a snake '

[@polish2x91]

Thank you, been saying that for years. He’s a total snake, and that bogging down the first part of the conversation (which usually works for him) and getting beat there was just beautiful

[@SpikyAsian]

Gotta commend Destiny here for being able to be calm and reasonable in these frustratingly hard conversations

[@Marco_Fabian37]

He was neither calm nor reasonable. He literally watched two clips of the court case before this debate and did a 20 second research and claims asking the loony judge for a mistrial becuse of a blurry video is reasonable? And where does he get that this judge was normal? And the courts processing was normal? Granted the prosecution was unprepared and a bit loony as well but the whole thing was very unorthodox to say the least. Nothing compared to or appeared normal.

[@heinshaaine8153]

@@Marco_Fabian37 Do you have evidence that the judge normally judges a different way? Or is it just conjecture on your part? But hey if you gone so out of normal social parameters that you deny people the right to self defence, then trying to undermine the legitimacy of the people telling you are crazy is the only thing left, even if it is the whole judikative of a country...

[@daveonezero6258]

It wasn't a hard conversation. Either you have a right to life property and defense, or you do not.

[@Sparrows1121]

@@Marco_Fabian37 I mean when you hear idealogue like NPC Pakman talk nonsense and cant work with facts. Its easy to just go Uuuurgh with these people

[@giorgisabashvili2664]

you now understand what right wingers have to deal with and you are surprised they also become bad faith

[@sydhamelin1265]

Pakman is burying objectively false information inside subjective opinions, and then trying to excuse the factual mistruth under the umbrella of opinion, and Destiny calls him out IMMEDIATELY for that slippery tactic.

[@Worgen33]

This is the most polite insulting conversation I've seen Destiny have in a long time.

[@kendallmiller9135]

I feel like there's a tweet I haven't seen

[@saotomebuster]

Yeah very slimey

[@jasandrea7034]

This was not polite at all lol. Pakman was very clearly offended. This shit is gold.

[@shockwavesyndrome6433]

@@jasandrea7034 destiny was being polite, polite for him at least

[@jasandrea7034]

@@shockwavesyndrome6433 Lmfao no Destiny was calling him out.

[@TheGravityAxe]

Pakman didn't want to admit he was spreading misinformation. "That's just my opinion, not misinformation" if it's wrong information David... it's misinformation.

[@Superabound2]

Leftists literally don't believe in objective facts

[@johnnycaralta]

People still believe "opinions can't be wrong", which is absurd.

[@lesolstice_3sahb367]

entertainment for the sake of entertainment will always cause misinformation. Its not pakman fault youtube is like this

[@johnnycaralta]

@@lesolstice_3sahb367 It's his fault that he partakes in it.

[@lesolstice_3sahb367]

@@johnnycaralta but hes got the best excuse wich is everyone else does it like why would he stop when destiny does the same shit just with the drama farmin. what is your problem

[@catatafish22]

David: Parses his own comment out into at least 5 layers of abstraction Also David: "Woah woah woah, we've got to take a step back here. Now we've gone about 5 layers deep and we're moving way off topic"

[@jacobosborn8584]

@@SteliosKantos for real this community lives for the rittenhouse drama it's like half of destiny's subscribers are closet-right wingers/ centrists who just feel emboldened by the fact that destiny is the only liberal putting kyle up on a pedestal. Not to mention they have an insane parasocial attachment to him where they feel they have to defend him at all costs. Scary like you know these people never go outside.

[@catatafish22]

@@SteliosKantos You realise that if no one argued our democracy and justice system would fail right? Societies morals would disintegrate too. If no one argued points over morality, justice, politics etc. our society would be based on completely faulty ideals because there would be no one to contest horrible ideas. Think about how elections would go if no one argued... Trump would probably still be president because everyone would just accept his lunatic behaviour, no one would call him out on his fuckery and the populous would just vote for the person who makes the biggest noise. Innocent people would go to jail because all of our lawyers would be spineless cowards who can't defend a case. Morals in society would also be based off of unfounded bullshit ideals because there would be no one to contest shitty ideas Pacifism is cowardice

[@ChaniTsunami229]

Destiny, I am going back and watching this a year later... and just so happy to see not everybody is completely effing insane... thank you for being a real person and not a mindless drone

[@gangster125]

Not everybody. But conservatives are all totally insane indeed. Or maybe just dumb. Tough choice between the two.

[@BGWhite-sb8is]

“I want to go to Japan for the trains” AND “Did Pakman just ask me if I’m autistic?”

[@BattieGames]

Top shelf meme

[@AllenHavens_sax]

The trains here are super convenient. Lol

[@hian]

Who wouldn't want to go to Japan for the trains? Trains are awesome. Come on.

[@AapoJoki]

Least autistic reason to go to Japan.

[@Trappu-]

Still better than going to japan to see anime girls

[@hjge1012]

David comes across as pretty unreasonable and honestly just straight up condescending in a lot of this discussion. Pretty disappointing.

[@GuibsonGuitar]

They both do that in this convo to each other. They both had disappointing moments.

[@inquisitorofkek2472]

I made a Twitter account to specifically evaluate people about their understanding of the laws in question and exactly what happened in the trial. I would only state absolute and undeniable fact. I'd even blast people about bringing up Rosenbaums criminal history as if it's relevant to the immediate issue. I was just kind of probing. I was absolutely shocked at the pure amount of misinformation and tribalistic bias. I had one guy actually tell me that the Kenosha Protests began in May, when a simple Google search says it was Sunday August 23'rd. I had only two people get defeated when I provided proof and admit it and actually change their mind. Out of so many. I know it's not the real world, it's just Twitter, but I lean Left is it's particularly egregious, and whatever is invading it with this mindset is without an open mind and hardened mentally, which is what I prided the Left on since I was a kid. It's not making me think differently as far as values, but it seriously made me feel disconnected from either group. It's isolating.

[@Brettwbeyer14]

Destiny's framing of David's tweet was dishonest from the get go.

[@bruteboy123]

He's a liberal Democrat, that's how they typically come across.

[@flain283]

@@inquisitorofkek2472 I've witnessed a similar thing, and it's disturbing. Now many months later, many people still do not get simple facts right. Just a few days ago, i was talking to a friend in real life (on the left, as most my friends are), and he still thought that Rittenhouse should be guilty because he crossed state lines, deliberately provoked people and that his life was never threatened and was never attacked. He also believed that the FBI footage proved it. My friend is very intelligent we both work as colleagues in a mentally demanding job, yet he has been sucked in by all of the reporting (or lack of) on this particular case. I pointed out none of his news sources had made any effort that is visible to their regular audience to correct factual inaccuracies. When i raised this with him, he went away and came back a couple of hours later with 2 correction articles. When i said "if your sources are honest, why then, did you not know this before now?" we had a bit of a falling out which I'm working on repairing.

[@Chrisfragger1]

Imagine, you live in a country where you are SUPPOSED to be PRESUMED Innocent until you are PROVEN Guilty, a judge might be concerned with the safety and fairness of the prosecution of an Innocent person.

[@FknAzzMuncher]

I love how david saying destiny has autism backfired immediately as he was the one who couldn't read the vibe of the conversation 😂

[@rustyshackleford8370]

I genuinely thought Pakman has some form of autism. The guy is very weird.

[@pepelechad536]

It was genuinely a disgusting thing to say. Not sure how it was swept under the rug so easily.

[@nigelbrayshaw2709]

It was a clear case of projection.

[@joshuaallen9501]

​@@pepelechad536was David saying it as a joke or was he trying to insult destiny?

[@cherylpatton1977]

​@@joshuaallen9501maybe he is just mean and hurt.

[@dougdozier8782]

"Your not in a good place and I'm worried about you" This is pathetic and is a tactic used when your points are failing.

[@Joe1twloha]

It’s called poisoning the well. Make you think of the opponent as bad before they even get in a word

[@valuedCustomer2929]

Fake empathy to distract from substance is a popular tactic these days.

[@MiikeyLawless]

It's also highly manipulative and typical behavior for people who are emotionally abusive.

[@gerabadillo7889]

It was obviously manipulative and lame

[@usucdik]

He always does that though because by comparison Pakman is an emotionless robot, so he calls Destiny unhinged in almost any encounter. But it was kinda weaselly when he tried to use it against Destiny's "people who seem mad are the most misinformed" thing. The "copium and F-bomb" point was completely baseless and didn't indicate anything.

[@jgrafton2182]

It really feels like David is gaslighting hard the whole conversation.

[@tubesockvii2351]

Pakman 1 Destiny 0

[@tomtom3576]

Gaslighting??? What u talking about Willis?

[@openmind2464]

You’re confusing gaslighting with Davis being stupid

[@ReignOfCurtis]

He literally started the whole conversation with saying he thinks destiny is unwell and needs help. He pushed that narrative multiple times. He was definitely gaslighting and not even in a subtle manner.

[@viper2785]

@@ReignOfCurtis Absolutely, not to mention the whole autism thing. This whole conversation just came off as he doesn't want to look bad on his show or to his viewers but doesn't want to associate with Destiny anymore and is trying to make him burn the bridge with him, as long as it doesn't in any way look like his fault or make him look any less like Mr Rogers or whatever the fuck his branding is, lol.

[@DeltaLead65]

David Packman and Sam Seder are absolute weasels.

[@tylere.8436]

Sam Seder and David Packman would make an insufferable gay couple.

[@sydhamelin1265]

Steven can be rough around the edges with how he talks to people, but I don't recall ever seeing him act dishonestly, or use theatrics. Pakman starts talking about fractals, then complains they've gotten off topic?

[@Achillusgaming]

This was insane. David was UBER Defensive, incredibly condescending, and also just completely factually in the wrong. This is what happens when you just say things for entertainment, then someone comes and holds you to task, and you’re pretending you’re a serious political commentator, so you have to respond to the substance, even when you have no response. David won’t be doing this again any time soon.

[@jpkm123g9]

Packman has always been a dishonest seeyounexttuesday

[@jonathancoryell7232]

Plot twist: David is *always UBER defensive and condescending

[@afroprince5262]

@@jonathancoryell7232I was coming to say this , I’m noticing a lot of so called progressives act like that. Niko house, and Anna what’s her face from tyt being other examples.

[@godbyone]

David actually believes the world thinks Biden is great that he has respect it’s kind of funny

[@rickyhits6547]

So Destiny isn't condescending? That's hilarious 😂

[@chronographer]

First half of debate: Pakman: _I'm trying really hard to imply the trial is not fair and the judge is putting on a show._ Destiny: Are you implying the trial is not fair? _I didn't SAY that._ But do you acknowledge its the implication you're trying to elicit? _It's entertainment Kenny!_ It's just entertainment? It's all a meme? _I didn't SAY that either._

[@nickgardner1408]

Why are you so angry!?!?

[@chronographer]

Second half of debate when we get into specifics I really think Pakman showed his bias. Destiny asks "do you think he's favored the defense in a fair way or an unfair way" a very pertinent question. Lets break down Pakman's _first and best_ example of clear bias in favor of the defence and show why his characterization is pretty much entirely wrong. 41:19 _I believe that the defense has been able to take advantage of the judge's technological incompetence by introducing arguments about pixels algorithms logarithms etc_ - The judge heard the defences objection, that's his job, not being 'taken advantage of'. Judge: "I have to have an objection. I get an objection and then I rule on it". 41:38 _put the prosecution in a position to basically have to try to explain to a guy that doesn't understand any of this why everything is okay_ - The judge referenced previous expert testimony (for a different exhibit) why it *could* be an issue: "I heard the experts say, that you brought down from the crime lab, that in fact that there were alterations made by adding pixels", seems like he understands the potential issues. 41:47 _and the judge is simply out of incompetence erring on the side of accepting what the defense say_ - Wrong, the judge explicitly said he wasn't siding with the defence, and that he wanted expert testimony on the record so they wouldn't have to just accept the defence argument *nor* the 'common sense' of the prosecution. Judge: "I'm not gonna accept as accurate what richards is saying and I'm not gonna accept what you're telling me." 41:54 _assuming the prosecution is doing tricky things with exhibits_ - Wrong, as the judge rightly says "If it doesn't enhance the image, why do you want to do it [zoom in]?" It's not an assumption it's based on sound reasoning. All the other zoomed images did have expert testimony about the enhancements. 41:59 _when it's really just the the defense using the judges and technological incompetence to their favor_ - Wrong again, the state was allowed to present the zoomed in thing as they wanted to in the end. Judge again: "I don't have any problem with it being received" and "what I usually do is to have to admit the evidence but I make sure that the finder of facts is aware of the fact that it is not the original image" Every statement Pakman makes is proved wrong just using the judges own quotes during that brief exchange Pakman is referencing! Now it's true the defence's initial objection in the moment is quite technically poor, but that's the defence's incompetence not the Judge. And after destiny rebuts this bit we get the complete deflection: _yeah uh I just don't I mean listen you're you're arguing that a guy who _*_looked dazed_*_ and called pixels pickles had a perfect understanding of the technology_ . Uh no, we were talking about if his ruling was *fair* or not. Now you're trying to say because he 'looked dazed' while giving a fair and nuanced legal ruling is enough to prove your point. And then we deflect and walk back a second time: _if you were impressed by this judge's technological comprehension that's that's scary to me_ Destiny hits back with a 'but was the judge incorrect?' and we get a third deflection _it is not incorrect to say that ... but the fact that you were impressed by the judge's technological competences is - that's concerning to me_ Destiny hits him with the sarcastic 'so there's nothing he was out of his element on then' and DPak only has one option, keep up the deflection: _really... you're flopping... you're contradicting yourself_ And we devolve into the stupid got'cha for the rest of the time to try to save face. It's also the prosecutor Binger who first calls them "pickles"! Which is probably why the judge repeats that later. The judge calls them pixels during the initial objection discussion. So he's wrong about that too!

[@chronographer]

And then remember we are framing the whole thing with: _where I'm having a problem is you seem unable to just be like 'oh someone has a different opinion and it's essentially meaningless either of our lives_ *but I feel the need to go completely bonkers and like attack people and use the term copium* _like I'm just wondering why you have this tendency it has nothing really to do with the trial. It's like I think the guy's wacky it's just my opinion what's the big deal?_ The irony of deflecting everything as 'just my opinion, it doesn't even matter if I mischaracterise the trial' but yet 'one mean comment towards me is you being completely bonkers and autistic and very problematic. I'm worried about you!'

[@Sakuya_Moon]

jesus christ, i hate people like Pakman that tries to dance around the words when it get caught and cornered and then start trying to spin things to make you look bad in return like a crusade, he really is a dishonest person

[@TheBizzerker]

TheChronographer He also seems to have missed how often the judge would act like he was going to rule against the prosecution in something, think about it for a while, and then get talked out of it.

[@clickbaitrater8945]

This aged so badly for Pakman. This video has become the absolute best reference point to see just how slimy, fake and bad faith Pakman is. He really went all in permanently with the obfuscation, fake concern, and a BUCKET LOAD of condescension - That fake, psychotic smile is everything you need to know about a person.

[@cherylpatton1977]

Well said

[@codywebb2768]

This wasn’t even a debate…. This was Destiny destroying a punching bag with a M240B.

[@FriedHedgehogBalls]

The way the subreddit was spamming that destiny was too mean and cruel to Pakman has me so confused. Pakman came across much more hostile and aggressive than Destiny here. I think Destiny came in hot but he toned that down very quickly and only raised it up again when Pakman had been constantly throwing snide remarks and digs at him.

[@hazzardalsohazzard2624]

I think this because Destiny uses a lot of questions and I think his tone and voice can sound accusatory if you haven't listened to him a lot.

[@hazzardalsohazzard2624]

@@alisaforster28691 Now I've been paying attention, Pakman seems a lot ruder than I previously thought. I think the words people use matter a lot less than tone in many cases of people interacting.

[@monkeydotbizness]

Pakman is aggressively passive aggressive and plays dumb all the time.

[@NoShotTwoKill]

@@monkeydotbizness „Aggressively passive aggressive“ Lmao imma steal that one

[@aperson2943]

It's cope

[@celestial5236]

I know pakman has already stated he wasn't joking about the autism question but asking that directly after a disagreement is in very poor taste. It was obvious why he was doing it.

[@gg-uq6zm]

What's your icon photo?

[@MrRazmut]

Honestly after watching D for a couple years now I understand what Pakman means when he asks if D is autistic. But FOR SURE it's feels fucking yikes-y to do it live on stream after an argument

[@78skj]

Not just that, but to do so publicly when he could have done so privately, given that they are friends, was pretty tactless.

[@echo5226]

@@MrRazmut why do you think he is autistic? I understood autistics to be awkward socially. Destiny seems very colorful in how he speaks.

[@idonotmakevidsyet]

As if Destiny doesn't name call people too

[@oosn0b0ardroo]

Generally speaking, I'm slightly right of center where politics are concerned and have a good amount of disdain for lefties and their ridiculous arguments... But I've got to say, Destiny completely destroying Pakman was very satisfying to watch. His approach here was spot on and exposed the petty, bad-faith slimy approach that Pakman constantly employs when "opining" and "entertaining" (ie. What he calls debate when he's losing miserably).

[@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING]

Pakman's live chat actively proving Destiny's point as he's making it is absolutely amazing. Lol

[@jacobosborn8584]

What was the point again? That David’s audience thinks the judge engaged in whacky behavior and acted unceremoniously unprofessional at times?? Yeah so lol Ask anybody even tangentially related to law or litigation and they’ll all tell you the same thing: the judge’s behavior was weird and at times unprofessional. Oh but of course everybody else talking about it, the thousands and thousands people all seeing the same thing must be wrong and legal expert destiny has the correct answer lol Besides I bet 85% of destinys audience thinks rittenhouse is a model citizen. Destiny is the only liberal that feels the need to constantly defend rittenhouse so much. You ever ask why??? Because there is a viewer market for it dumass. Right wingers crave the existence of someone ostensibly on the left claiming that their hero who killed two people and got away with it acted like a perfect little angel Maybe dgg can contribute to kyles new career in the right wing grift media landscape because that’s the only way the kids going to make a living without changing his name: cozying up to right wing psychos who worship him for killing people ideologically different from themselves.

[@mxyplex]

David:"Its already in evidence" Destiny:"No its not" David:"well its my opinion that it is" Destiny:"thats factually incorrect" David:"in my opinion facts dont matter" .... Basically this conversation...

[@I_Get_Computers_Puting]

That would be a great argument if that's what he was saying but he didn't. He was being too nice. He was trying so hard not to say "what I'm saying is fact" also, just like Destiny repeated over and over

[@wvance0316]

@@I_Get_Computers_Puting but it wasn't fact in good faith, it's called lying by omission. The media does it will soundbites all the time and people walk away forming incorrect understandings based on quoted words all the time. I'll point some out for you so you see what I mean. In the mid 1940's a lot of Germans migrated to Argentina. Also, slavery was abolished in the South by the late 1800s. Those are both facts, but not giving context allows you to get the wrong understanding of reality. Say you knew nothing about these situations, you might think average Germans just moved because Argentina seemed nice or that the South just agreed to get rid of slavery. Nothing I said was a lie, but I left room for people to fill in incorrect assumptions based on what they wanted to believe. Like how CNN cuts the tape after a grieving sister says to not bring violence to their community, there's already been enough, and we need to be able to get our weaves and stuff. CNN cuts tape and you walk away thinking she called for reason. Then the full clip gets out and you hear her say, go to the rich suburbs and smash and steal their stuff, don't bring that violence here. This is a true story where CNN didn't "lie" but they edited the facts to present a false reality. This is how you get tribes that can't coexist because the truly believe we live in different worlds and that there side has all the facts and the other just lies and is delusional. That is what Destiny was trying explain before David started belittling him. Which to be fair, I can see why he looks down on others. David got some very "pure" genes from his Argentinian parents. Some might even look at his intelligence and call him a Wunderkind. But this is all just my opinion of course.

[@I_Get_Computers_Puting]

@@wvance0316 What David was saying was also fact: the judge was acting silly, he wasn't being professional, that optically, can also affect the case, and you, me, nor Destiny know if that's how he acts in other cases. All we can do is judge him by how he acted in this one. This is why jurors are vetted before a case starts, to see if they have certain biases or opinions. A judge reprimanding a prosecutor over and over gives the perception that said prosecutor, is wrong, being dishonest, and trying to not play by the rules.

[@DoctorSantaPhD]

@@I_Get_Computers_Puting the prosecutor was being dishonest though. He attempted to use the fifth amendment against the defendant. That is an absolute abuse of the defendant's constitutional right in a criminal trial. There is no room for interpretation there.

[@I_Get_Computers_Puting]

@@DoctorSantaPhD thats for the defense attorney to object and argue. Not for a judge to act like daddy and reprimand. We're gonna pretend that lawyers are nice people now?

[@poloniumdoor294]

You can tell David is arguing in bad faith when he takes destiny saying "wow this 75 y/o man had a fantastic understanding of digital zoom" as "wow this 75 y/o judge is literally a senior software engineer"

[@jeffwallace673]

I don't know what you watched but Destiny was on his heels about halfway through this debate and David pakman had better points and Destiny seemingly kept trying to Pivot

[@poloniumdoor294]

@@jeffwallace673 you're right I thought the judge was a software engineer as well

[@Kyle-pj2vc]

Yeah he drove me up the damn wall with that. Destiny meant it in a way where the judge had better understanding than an average person on image upscaling, and Pak interpreted that as "oh he thinks the judge is an expert" Plus, you need an expert on this subject always if the prosecution wanted to push back because the defendant's life and freedom depends on it. Pak the wack quack.

[@Biggiiful]

@@jeffwallace673 you're delusional dude

[@Kyle-pj2vc]

​@@jeffwallace673 Name one valid point pakman made, all I heard was.. "but he pronounced x word wrong" "he favored the defense more" "he's old and doesn't understand technology" this pak guy said nothing of substance, conceded to destiny multiple times, and downplayed his misleading tweets as "but they're just opinions not rooted in reality" just another shit lib take, making actual liberals look bad.

[@empiretradingacademy3866]

David Pakman is easily the most dishonest person I’ve ever seen

[@JammingJ12]

Motion sustained 👏

[@hunkallgood73]

Really? You've obviously never heard of Donald J. Trump or anyone on fox news apparently. Maybe it's you who is dishonest?

[@youwatch2muchtv]

Really? Cmon. Just because youre a destiny fan, which is fine, and it appears that pakman won the debate, you think pakman is dishonest? Cmon

[@randomuruk7230]

@@youwatch2muchtv delusional

[@aarondavis8943]

For David to go full Picard putting his hand to his forehead in frustration every 10 seconds and _then_ to essentially ask "You mad bro?" was pretty amazing stuff. And then the old "Are you autistic" when Destiny was being perfectly calm. Gee wiz David.

[@squidly2112]

I am over 50 years old, and I have been a software engineer for over 30 years! .. The judge was absolutely 100% correct about the "zooming" or "enhancing" of images. I have been doing these things the overwhelming majority of my life. ANY time you alter your view of an image that is at a different dot pitch (pixels per inch) than the original, whether zooming or shrinking, doesn't matter, both methods ALTER the pixel representation. period!

[@Saboteur4]

There's something in the manual of the FBI drone camera that says you can't use enhanced images in a trial since it's technically altering evidence.

[@ExsoLam]

@@Saboteur4 you can, but the software has to give an automatic accounting of all changes made and such, which the prosecution couldn't do, which is why the judge required an expert opinion. Super reasonable

[@angrydwarf4224]

do alot of work with CCTV cameras. they generally have 30X optical zoom they can go to 270. but after 30 its digital so image quality turns to garbage because each pixel is inflated. making stuff very hard to identify.

[@Expertspecter]

@@ExsoLam It also depends on if they image needs to be pixel perfect or not. If Kyle took up 25% of the screen and with no zoom needed you can see what they are saying by just screen clipping... No one would argue. When he's the size of a dime and looks like slenderman and needs a zoom to "see" anything... You need an expert and evaluation of all points and algorithms used.

[@Superabound2]

Anyone who has ever resized an image in Photoshop knows that anything other than a straight up 1 to 1 bitmap zoom (which makes the image look "blocky" or pixelated) literally invents and deletes pixels and inherently changes the quality and substance of the image

[@Stylonuum]

I like how he opened with "I don't think we disagree, I just think you're on an anti-lefty crusade" meme, instantly poisoning the well for him and the audience. These people have brainworms bro lmfao.

[@Brettwbeyer14]

Destiny's tweet was poisoning the well. It definitely was a dishonest way of putting David in a box with how destiny personally view leftists. It was a sort of ad homenim.

[@historybuff1483]

If you disagree with that comment, you don’t watch any Destiny. He’s always contrarian for the sake of being contrarian…like most conservatives are.

[@skuzzlebutt9745]

@@historybuff1483pakman fan spotted 🤡

[@historybuff1483]

@@skuzzlebutt9745 bro, you’re a fan of a grifter. I know you’re like 13, but over the last 10 years Ive watched him and his audience slowly move from left to right.

[@estebanss4]

​@@historybuff1483 People change their political beliefs over time, How is that grifting?

[@yomamma.ismydaddy216]

Lmao destiny trolling him while at the same time David is pretty much oblivious to destiny’s sarcasm while saying destiny may be bad at picking up social cues 😂

[@red-Rx]

Man, Destiny is the only one on the left I can tolerate. I don’t hate him.

[@bobowon5450]

agreed. He doesn't come across as tribalist or up his own butt. I don't agree with everything he says but its because of a different perspective rather than a difference in facts.

[@SuperKpill]

I’m shocked. I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with Destiny’s view on anything important and I’ve always considered David Pakman one of the more reasonable and intellectually honest people on the left. Yet in this conversation, Destiny was desperately trying in vain to have a reasonable discussion and Pakman did nothing but strawman and make extremely dishonest statements about the case.

[@MO-zk8qs]

I don't trust any of these types of comments here as people who've actually never agreed with destiny lol

[@RohoSombrero]

Wow, you watched a completely different argument I did! Destiny constantly attacked David for doing exactly what he’s been doing every time he discusses the trial, calling him a liar and bad faith actor and David stayed calm through the entire sordid ordeal. I think he made Stephen (who I generally like) like Dave Rubin, dishonest and disingenuous.

[@asnalem4391]

@@RohoSombrero Pakman was excruciatingly passive aggressive what do you mean calm?

[@gkoogz9877]

@Don K have fun

[@desecrator8979]

Pakman litterally blatantly lies to his honest. He's a total fraud just like Hassan

[@SpitFireDebates]

Pakman is disingenuous and ridiculous... He was triggered because you called him out and triggered his narcissistic shame. Tons of gaslighting from Pak. Great job calling out him out and not giving in to his tactics, Destiny! Even if I don't agree with some of what you say, you handled him well 👍

[@joegasparro2395]

I'm a lawyer. When we're arguing motions, there is no set time limit where each side gets to speak. If your point is shit, if you're rambling, if your line of argument is unconvincing, judges cut us off all the time. And also, every judge is different . Some will engage with the parties during breaks and small talk and some are all business

[@StankMasterZ]

I really appreciate your honesty in all of your content. I really feel like I can trust that you show the facts a proof to your statements. Whether or not I agree with your opinion or not. You do great solid work.

[@Xmundos]

"I'm worried about you..." Packman, what a little weasel.

[@sitonmuhdeckasshole]

Most of them are

[@mikem4481]

What he means is "I'm worried ur leaving the cult"

[@judah970]

Be kind to weasels. They don’t deserve to be in the same sentence as Pakman.

[@LaptopmenaceMTK]

Everytime Pakman gets called out and can't give a proper answer, he reverts back to having technical issues to sway the conversation. He did this the last time they disagreed

[@thekamotodragon]

The amount of people in David's chat who think Destiny must be right wing just because he either disagrees with him or just wants to get the facts of the case straight is very telling. They're basically convinced that this entire case is on ideological lines and supporting Destiny is like supporting Rittenhouse and supporting David is like supporting the prosecution. The most disturbing part of that being the idea that; if you're left leaning, you can't support the defense winning even if it's objectively the right decision based on evidence. These partisan hacks have to make everything a left vs right issue instead of just what's objectively true and false.

[@pixl2286]

Every time I heard David rattle off Stephens entire legal name I slammed my face into my desk and gave myself a nose bleed

[@westernartifact4163]

I feel Anna Kasparian has outpaced DPak intellectually.

[@defaultlogos2976]

Why?

[@EskiLdn]

In this case she funnily has. The thing with ana you can tell shes dishonest and doing it for the money. You can sort of get that from her ben debate. Pakman is rather braindead left though, fully in a bubble. I reckon he'll admit this soon.

[@punchout2418]

@@defaultlogos2976 lmao

[@defaultlogos2976]

@@punchout2418 I barely know Ana and I haven't heard of her till now. Based on your response and the one above, I'm guessing she is either an idiot or the OP is just joking.

[@lancevance6346]

@@defaultlogos2976 Only thing you need to know about Ana is that she's better than you.

[@VET-gl5kp]

Reading the chat in Packmans channel just destroys his entire “just my opinion” argument. They believe everything he said about the trial.

[@mysticmarble94]

Hold up ... How does that principally counter that those statements are just his opinion ?

[@tugboat2030]

You've figured it out. Pakman influences all of my opinions and I believe everything he says all the time when he says it. What's Twitter again?

[@VET-gl5kp]

@@mysticmarble94 His entire argument was he didn’t influence anyone it was just his opinions, “Everything’s a Meme”. But as he says false statements about the trial his chat agrees with every single false point. His “just my opinion” argument falls flat when his entire chat parrots his false points. He influences them through his commentary which was the entire argument against him.

[@zbigniewp1810]

@@mysticmarble94 yeach, that's the same argument guys like Stefan Mollyneux make when they are called out. It might be an opinion, but the implication is clear (also the opinion is supported with factual errors but who cares about that, right?)

[@eli469]

I could copy paste this comment and replace pakman with destiny and it would still be true.

[@MattKaspar]

I have never seen a more patronizing admission to being proved wrong. NEVER!

[@kchart47]

David Pakman is a sophisticated gaslighter. Destiny has TOTALLY earned my respect by the way he calls DP’s bs.

[@JammingJ12]

Totally agree, david side steps and sounds so unreasonable.

[@MrSumone]

That judge showed a bias towards the constitution and the defendant's Civil rights. That's actually what the judge is supposed to be there to enforce.

[@ericlefeld8059]

Well this is the "innocent til proven guilty" United States of America, I don't know what you all expect. So if there was a bias, I would expect the defendant to be more biased by judges.

[@ellencox8415]

But when your goal is to "dismantle the system"... the judge is clearly right wing 🙄

[@ellencox8415]

@Nicholas Ramirez Haltenhof ... I'm quoting people from Twitter... then rolling my eyes at them.

[@trailerparksupervisor5378]

@@ellencox8415 The judge is a registered Democrat lmfao

[@MrSumone]

@Lick Tasty exactly. Kyle even said himself in his tucker Carlson interview "If they do this to me, imagine if a person of color was in the same situation". The left is always talking about reforming the criminal justice system, but apparently not when it would benefit someone they feel doesn't align with their values.

[@Hamppdur]

The “are you mad, you seem mad” portion of this debate was so infuriating to listen to. I don’t really know why David pivoted to that in the first place. The emotional response a person has to an observation bears no weight when it comes to the observation’s legitimacy.

[@ThenDarknessFalls]

It's just a convenient way to spin to his audience that Destiny is some angry malcontent instead of a rightfully angry individual who's attempting to keep his side honest.

[@randomuserame]

That's precisely why. It's an indirect character assassination attempt that seeks to discredit the speaker when the merits of their argument are objectively true and cannot be challenged without dipping your toes into a significant amount of psychosis. "I couldn't beat your argument, so now i'm going to "poison the well" and make people throw your entire argument out under the presumption that you aren't emotionally or psychologically stable enough to be fair and equitable in your argumentative stance. It's taking "you're not acting in good faith" claim and changing the fuel from logic to emotion, then firing it back at him. Ironically, this just gives more evidence that dickpack is *not* acting in good faith.

[@Treycarello]

In a debate the first person to have an emotional response is the loser of the debate

[@atarithepaladin1821]

It’s called gaslighting. Pakman did it the ENTIRE. Conversation.

[@WNShadow814]

@@randomuserame perfectly put

[@jordanvannortwick9426]

My two favorite KZbinrs debating. I can’t believe I’m seeing it for the first time 2 years after it came out.

[@F.Diesel]

If you disagree with Pakman in any way, you're on the other side.. no ability to compromise and has an attitude of my way or the highway.. Remember kids, only Sith deal in absolutes.

[@teddyeastside8051]

This is interesting because David is being really condescending while being stupid. Knowing your limitations on a subject is impressive. Destiny wasn’t claiming the judge was a genius, he was claiming that he was right in the situation. But when David argues back he has no other examples despite being actively asked and he characterises Destiny’s whole argument as either the judge knows everything or he knows nothing and then acts smug about it? I think he’s actually really stupid tbh.

[@dmvbawse4265]

Pakman gets slaughtered for a bad take and he runs to the “I was joking” argument lmao. Then goes right to looking at this viewership numbers after the debate LOL.

[@Dismuth]

This is actually true. Immediately after the debate he was like "wow I have over 10k viewers" and said nothing was gained from the conversation.

[@dmvbawse4265]

@@Dismuth I saw that and was like wtf

[@Daye04]

You think it's weird to be aware of your viewer count? I take it you've never streamed in your life?

[@dmvbawse4265]

@@Daye04 totally missed my point

[@YoungGzBlitz]

@@Daye04 Don't pretend to be a valid news source if you are just doing memes for the views then

[@tedd5361]

Watching this helped me realize that sometimes debate provides absolutely 0 usefulness or substance and people can just get bogged down on arguing about each others sentence structures in infinite layers for hours.

[@potentiallyacommentor5648]

You should have taken away that the journalism professor just doesn't care about factually, and ethically, covering a hight profile trial.

[@Sunamigun]

What you should be realizing is this what debates look like when one side is gaslighting

[@jacobosborn8584]

⁠”durr what u should realize is that my favorite stream daddy is always right because i say so” -the two clowns above me

[@Sunamigun]

@@jacobosborn8584 Where did I say that Destiny was right about anything?

[@mack8154]

Nope, that's pakman every single debate... He's incapable of being genuine or ever able to have a good faith conversation

[@SUBZER0GREEN]

Seeing both chats right next to each other is really eye-opening.

[@zenleeparadise]

“I think the judge is kind of a doofus.” “Why?” Let’s be real. It’s because the judge is from Wisconsin. People from the Midwest just seem goofy to everyone else

[@dr.mansdoodeph.d.2421]

TRUE!

[@mtp1213]

As someone from iowa this is 100% true

[@mrpopo4294]

Does that include Destiny?

[@the88mph]

Oh its cause they are, believe me im in mb and we are basically wisconson canadians

[@rousseaufishing3795]

Believe that was the point of the comment

[@apfeiffer7606]

David Pakman in this conversation is the perfect example of what happens when you buy into a narrative too hard and too early and then the facts don’t back that narrative up and it show so, so hard, right here.

[@syn8666]

Yea, that's pretty much all the left is these days, lol

[@J.C.3]

Did he ever backtrack during trial ?

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

He has zero credibility, I mean this was just so embarrassing for him.

[@ELI_TMWSTW]

He did the same with Russia gate

[@ACEDshooter]

Is sad he had somewhat of a cult following. If you go on his comment videos all they do is just shit talk the opposition and never once made a coherent argument

[@jmc04200]

David is incredibly disingenious. He admitted that he was wrong intially then proceeded to falsely qualify what destiny's point was. I was incredibly impressed with Destiny's self-control as he really could've ended David's career if he wanted too.

[@ExilixE]

LOL I just want the judge to send an innocent boy to life in prison. It's just not a big deal what I say. It's just for entertainment 🤡🤡🤡

[@Williamsdshs11]

A lie is a lie, and Pakman was straight up lying when he said, "it wasn't clear" what happened with the low quality/high quality file debacle. It's wild to watch people lie about reality in real time, get called on it, and not acknowledge it.

[@mariomario1462]

Except he didnt lie and clearly explained what he was referring to.

[@TheJordanK]

Felt like we was just saying “I’m wrong” so they could move along. Did not feel genuine. But I also am not familiar with him so don’t know if that is just how he talks. I’m a peon.

[@onlyeveryone2253]

@@mariomario1462 can you explain what he was referring to since he did it so clearly

[@nickgardner1408]

I loved how Destiny didn’t let him get away with that.

[@weebtrash6119]

Because Pakman is a bad faith ideologue, who gaslights his audience to fit his perspective on the world. He can’t see through his own cognitive dissonance, let alone accepting he was wrong and got caught in a lie.

[@holdenstave52]

Destiny and Pakman are “destined” to be enemies. Both are intelligent and more prideful than they’d like to admit, but Destiny is blunt as hell while Pakman is unworldly passive aggressive when he disagrees with someone. Type of dude who will have you neck deep in dirt before he tells you he’s trying to bury you. Their personalities will never mesh well

[@UniversalMysteries343]

Pun intended?

[@paunaic5460]

@@UniversalMysteries343 omg

[@geneberrocal3220]

They also both have that Latino fiery blood.

[@Jaryism]

I think the word you’re looking for is psychotic

[@rustyshackleford8370]

I think pakman is just desperate for constant affirmation of his intelligence. He's a textbook "midwit". That's why he loves academia and talks down to people.

[@MegaCystic]

I can't believe I have been missing the 10/10 drama that is a Destiny debate. 🤣

[@MarSin]

Thank you for your attempt at intellectual honesty. Truly appreciated. Let the truth land where it may.

[@ThankYouStayedHere]

This is the maddest "I'm not mad" conversation I've watched in a while. Why are some people unable to have a conversation? Just defaulting to "I'm concerned about you buddy" whenever there's pushback on their opinion

[@carvedwood1953]

It's almost like you didn't watch the video at all.

[@POOKR]

@@carvedwood1953 David to Destiny at 16:14 "I'm worried about you." when referring to Destiny's nonstandard lefty takes. ...And again at 52:18 I'm starting to think you didn't watch the video at all...

[@carvedwood1953]

@@POOKR I don't think he is worried about the non standard takes, or should I say "non standard takes." He is worried that destiny is losing it bc he gets so butt hurt about things and is always and seemingly more frequently losing his cool. Which Destiny explains is just the way him and his family are.

[@POOKR]

@@carvedwood1953 I can see your perspective. I think more often lately when engaged in online discourse when there’s a disagreement lately I’ve seen people respond with ‘are you ok man?’ Rather than engage in civil discussion, some are diverting the conversation with that type of condescending behavior.

[@carvedwood1953]

@@POOKR Totally possible. I might not subject myself to enough internet drama to know to be honest haha. I guess "are you okay man?" is better than "your a piece of shit moron." lol. Or maybe its the same thing like saying bless your heart in the south.

[@right8630]

Pakman’s goal was to go in circles and not take a stance on literally anything.

[@michaelarmijo4112]

Yup, I watched him on the ROGIN show where he throws his clowns under the bus. NO NO Joe that's not my personal belief, no my audience ask me to talk about those issues. Just serving them. I mean Joe watch the show sometime, those Jack offs believe every thing I say. Joe, hey who cuts your hair. Dave why mom of course, yiu like ? Joe, who the f... Pic ks out your Brady Bunch clothes? Dave why mom of course, want me to have mom pick you up a couple. Joe ahhhh no thanks.

[@Christpuncher138]

You watched a different discussion.

[@right8630]

@@Christpuncher138 Parkman always talks in maybes ifs and buts never the facts always some twisted version of the truth to fit his narrative when grown men who know what they are talking about pacwoman over here shrivels.

[@tylere.8436]

​@@Christpuncher138 Idk how watching a different debate with Pakman would change that, but ok lol

[@alexsklavenitis302]

I had no idea about the intricacies of how a camera can handle zoom. Fascinating and educational.

[@seanmcerini]

Destiny nailed it with one word dealing with Pakman...DISHONEST.

[@MSculls19]

Destiny argued facts, Dave argued semantics, Dave was the most condescending person I've seen in a while

[@jtstevenson81]

That's how he always argues. Whenever he is getting his head kicked in in an argument, he pivots to condescension. Complete jerk.

[@ahmadmikhail9187]

have you seen the video where HealthygamerGG where hosted David and this conservative guy which tbh kinda looks pretty "out there" or in simple terms... kinda bonkers lol. But the conservative guy, in the end, opens up his past history and actually shows kinda how he became that way meanwhile David just keeps trying to condescend to the guy the whole time.

[@Yourmomazz]

When did Destiny argue facts? When he claimed the judge had a perfect understanding of video manipulation when he called pixels, pickles? Or when he stupidly tries to imply the judge was fair, when in fact, the judge shifted the burden of proof on the defence behalf. Defence: The video is manipulated Judge: The prosecution has to prove its not. See anything wrong with this?

[@MSculls19]

@@Yourmomazz Yes, i see alot wrong with your understanding of events. If the video is not original, if it is not the exact thing that was filmed there, be it zoomed in, cleared up, anything, it is manipulated Did the judge understand exactly how so? I don't know, but he understood the concept, which you're missing. Also, you literally cherry picked the one thing you could possibly argue because the rest is indeed cold hard facts.

[@Yourmomazz]

​@@MSculls19 The thing is, i hate the fact that the prosecution didnt ask the video evidence the defence used, to be tossed out, due to them zooming in on it. They should have demanded the defence to prove its not tampered with or manipulated.

[@Daedrex]

If he's technologically illiterate wouldn't that be even more reason to require an expert witness?

[@nickgardner1408]

It’s like Dunning-Krueger Effect. The judge is smart enough about a topic to know that he doesn’t know it completely, so he proceeds with caution by requiring an expert witness whereas a dumb person who knows very little would be confident/cavalier and disregard the need for an expert witness.

[@TheObicobiHD]

@@nickgardner1408 ^This exactly. Agreed

[@umgeburstet8161]

6:10 file labels shouldn't matter file content is important, i doubt there was relevant exclusive data in the title. Also precise language is important, zooming is not upscaling one changes image data one doesn't (or only changes the way it is displayed/ upscales temporarily and fairly primitively on higher resulutions) was this clarified in court ?

[@wizwizington1758]

what david meant with "are you autistic?" is "do you think having your own perspective on a socially agreed moral bad is okay?"

[@nws6146]

Pakman thinks that the judge understanding that different softwares enhance video differently is irrelevant because the judge actually needs to be an expert on the specific coding of the specific software used in the case or he’s still technologically incompetent. When in reality, the judge’s consciousness and humbleness towards video enhancement obviously bolsters the exact opposite.

[@keto3883]

yeah, someone claiming he is impressed with a 75year olds understanding of the video software doesn t mean he claims the 75year old is a software engineer. pakman desperatly trys to make up contradictions multiple times.

[@GameCriticNoob]

I think the de-facto take is the Judge actually doesn't know anything about software enhancement. But, he made a sound decision as an arbitrator to not allow the prosecution to suddenly introduce altered evidence without expert testimony. He did his job effectively.

[@Bai_Su_Zhen]

He would claim he's not saying that and that Steven actually said that by calling the judge tech competent. What a disingenuous fuck.

[@markesssssss]

This conversation was so painful to watch, I really used to like pakman but he's so bad faith here. I don't believe for a second that he struggles to understand that you need some technological knowledge to see why zooming in on pixelated footage can possibly alter the footage.

[@jmxtoob]

@@Murderbits you're right. I mean the judge was wrong in fact, the resampling when zooming is well understood and I'm amazed it has never come up before. An expert testifying would have been able to demonstrate what exactly the "new information", the resampling, introduced would do to e.g. a thin black line like a gun barrel. Or they could have just scaled the photo nearest-neighbor. If I'm being generous to Pakman, I'm surprised this isn't just one of the rules that has come up 1000 times since the advent of the smartphone, and that applies to evidence provided digitally. But the judge was right not to allow something he didn't understand and Destiny said it well: "if the difference between self defence and life in presence comes down to 6 pixels..."

[@DinosaurKale]

34:29 Destiny: “People look to online commentators to get their opinion about how the trial is going.” David: “Oh, God…..” I feel like that sums up the whole argument.

[@ataridc]

If David doesn't realize this he is as far removed from reality in 2021 as a person in his position can be. Where else does he think people get their opinions from? They're carefully cross referencing sources on multiple news site? No they are turning on Tim Pool, Destiny or Pakman and just getting their opinions from them.

[@DinosaurKale]

@@ataridc He actually has expressed a literally higher expectation several times in the years I’ve listened. He suggests that his show should be the last bit of extra “at the top of a pyramid”, with a base built up of books and journalists.

[@ataridc]

@@DinosaurKale yeah that just doesn't reflect reality as nice as that would be

[@axle84]

@@ataridc I'd have to respectfully disagree or at least ask for a clarification. I think there are alot of people who just regurgitate their favourite commentators opinion no doubt this happens usually due to intellectual lazyness. However I also think there are people myself included that watch multiple sources from different political and ideological sources and whilst you can probably find people who have similar opinions to my own that doesn't mean I simply copied their opinion.

[@LeiRaion]

@@axle84 The overall point of this entire conversation was that David is saying things that are demonstrably untrue about the case... these things, whether he believes it or not, poison his audience. Maybe not all of them, but enough of them. Saying FACTUALLY INCORRECT things about the case is extremely irresponsible for a content creator, even more so for people with large platforms. There is *a massive amount of misinformation* floating around about this case. People are even still making the claim that the people who were shot were black. There is always some amount of a community that will blindly follow what the content creator is saying and if he is saying very irresponsible things (which he was in this case) then he is helping to spread misinformation. I would assume anyone would want to avoid that...

[@cotyb5028]

"you don't know what it means to zoom in" 🤣🤣

[@WhyiLikeLife]

@destiny I saw you on jesse lee peterson. I searched because of confirmation bias during your breakup and a few of your videos have came up after. I enjoy your content and seem very fair. Keep it up.

[@BlueDirt_ProAggressive]

Destiny wasn't saying Judge would be a tech expert, he is saying as an old person he understands what he doesn't understand. That he wants an expert to explain this to court what is going on. Very reasonable

[@watzimagiga]

He was also saying its impressive that he doesn't assume that pixels aren't being created, when most of the zoomers in his chat assumed they weren't being created and thought the judge was dumb for reserving judgement

[@synlion]

@@watzimagiga yeah pakman did a weird gotcha that steven unfortunately then accepted. very weird behavior from pakman.

[@yurei_12]

This part triggered the hell out of me. Not only did people misunderstood what Destiny meant by being impressed with the Judge's reservation about how the pinch&zoom worked, but they then go on to flaunt that they have no idea how pinch&zoom works, thinking that they are right.

[@synlion]

@@yurei_12 i think its essential how the judge decided on that. seems like the prosecution would have gotten away with their "its simple, everyone does it all the time" argumentation.

[@GR33TINGSEARTHL1NGS]

This is super basic shit. I don't actually think DPak was being bad faith, but I understand why Steven thought he was since it's a super basic premise to wrap his head around, and it seemed like DPak was using it to weasel out of having a meaningful disagreement, "I don't actually think we can continue this conversation if you're impressed by the judges understanding when even the judge says he doesn't understand". Like fuck, DPak seems like a nice guy but damn that is another level of stupid, assuming he's being good faith.

[@REN3GADE1]

This David Pakman guy is incredibly dishonest. The worst was asking Destiny if he was “ok”. What a snake. He was trying to completely discredit Destiny by feigning friendship while implying mental instability. Disgusting

[@judah970]

Be nice to snakes. At least they’re not passive-aggressive bigots like Pakman.

[@boliussa]

well I think it's quite reasonable actually. Destiny had misrepresented him so much that it was getting ridiculous. Even at 52:40 Destiny is still misrepresenting what Pakman said and saying that Pakman said it's "just for entertainment" when Pakman said no such thing. Normal conversation became impossible and it became more appropriate to turn to Destiny's mental health.

[@ramy9103]

⁠@@boliussaHe did say the whole case was entertainment. He conceded the fact the whole thing was a farce in the sense of entertainment and not in a serious political way. He called the judge wacky and technologically illiterate and then conceded AGAIN that he was wasn’t incorrect, just not mentioned previously by the defense before the trial.

[@boliussa]

@@ramy9103 I gave a timeframe what Destiny misrepresenting Pakman, on what Pakman said about his(Pakman's) tweet, and Pakman giving up on trying to have an intelligent conversation with Destiny at that point after Destiny had misrepresented him even after almost an hour. You haven't addressed that. As for what you claim Pakman said, can you give the timeframe? And let's suppose Pakman said there was entertainment throughout the case. So what. What's your point? And I doubt Pakman would have worded things as sloppily as you have so i'd like to see the timeframe. And even if he had worded things sloppily, one can look at what he meant 'cos he describes what he meant when asked. Give timeframes.

[@ramy9103]

@@boliussa bro zip his pants up after your done blowing him Jesus. If you watched the video you see david gets defensive when destiny says he thinks that David is memeing to which David replying something along the lines of “no as a political commentator this is serious” . But as soon as destiny calls him out for calling the judge wacky and the whole trial a farce, David switches up and says “woah woah woah I can’t joke about it now?” He’s acting in such bad faith it’s honestly infuriating listening to this guy talk. Him trying to separate his personal beliefs and his political commentator image makes ZERO senses. I got bad news they go hand in hand when you are publicly tweeting something.

[@erikwulfrik1934]

19:06 david that was one of the mistrial requests they did one before they even closed the defense case. This request cane through the states rebuttal and closing argument in that they provided the defense with one video and got it published and admitted but then sub used a second enhanced video that had not been properly admitted into evidence in an effort to win their case. And before anyone asks for my credentials i watched the trial from bell to bell with live commentary from a panel of lawyers from all over the world.

[@joeyp978]

This was amazing lmfao. Absolutely crushing.

[@severedbeliefs]

Lost a ton of respect for Pakman here. He's clearly arguing in bad faith because he knows he's completely wrong.

[@DivaD-nk2bj]

Yeah, same. He came across really badly here 😬

[@Bolivia2010100]

Nah he conceded some points that's a lot more than most of these commentators And it's more than ppl irl admit It was a little hard to watch tho

[@markzuckergecko621]

I think the problem is that you had respect for Pakman.

[@biggydx]

@@markzuckergecko621 David's probably one of the most rational people on the left, and I don't know why people are completely riding him off because of one bad take.

[@juice17776]

@@biggydx it’s not a TAKE, it’s reality. He’s lying about reality. I don’t understand how he is so delusional.

[@elonmusk439]

It's pretty clear that Pakman is a disingenuous PoS. Unfortunately there isn't a simple way to deal with bad faith debaters besides ending the conversation. Destiny has the patience of a saint and the endurance of a marathon runner.

[@GreyKnight7777]

Then why was Pakman correct?

[@Biggiiful]

@@GreyKnight7777 he wasn't. You're delusional

[@bruceree5623]

David never stood a chance 😂

[@robbiemedica2652]

The concern trolling from Pakman at the start really sets the tone for this one.

[@ogjessep6152]

“So your saying the judge is taking the defensive side? “No I’m saying the judge is against the prosecution” That’s how this went, your welcome I saved your time

[@ronniekregar3482]

Pretty much

[@Swoop187OG187]

OMG, lol.. I love how Pakman says: "your desire to denounce the left seems to me that you're not really in a great place, and I'm worried about you".... Seriously?.. What is this an intervention?.......... Yea, like subscribing to objective truth and reality instead of subjective nonsense like the judges animated personality and sociable conduct is somehow "concerning"?...... I swear.. Pakman is trying to portray Destiny as "irrational", or even "mentally ill".... It's disgusting.. Once again if you don't tow the neo-leftist narrative then you're "ill" in one way or an other.. smh... Look, it's quite clear what's going on.. Kyle was rightly acquitted but these neo-leftists just cant let it be - they need to get in the last word to give themselves some sort of sense of a moral victory...smh...

[@S.A.N.503]

Watching this back and seeing Pakmans chat having a melt down, was genuinely amusing, lol

[@gregtidrow7717]

Considering the recent stuff Destiny has dealt with, I'm super curious to hear if his opinions have changed any.

[@Matt-wm1bf]

I owe you apology I always assumed you where like these crazy far right and far left grifters. Good job trying to debate someone who will never tell the truth. Pakman is a prime example of people viewing politics as a religion.

[@martymcfly88mph35]

David Pakman, Sam Seder, Kyle Kulinski are all the exact same person. Change my mind.

[@EddieMachetti]

Everyone treats politics like religion nowadays.

[@Matt-wm1bf]

@@EddieMachetti unfortunately you are correct, it's pretty sad in my opinion.

[@josheller541]

@@martymcfly88mph35 Kyle KulinskiIt’s just a Cenk clone,And humanist report it’s just a clone of Kyle.

[@josheller541]

@@martymcfly88mph35 Sam cedar is by far the worst out of those three, but yeah David and Kyle are still pretty bad.

[@offBeatRock777]

Destiny: 70 year old man understanding that “zooming” is actually image processing and not magnifying is very impressive. Pakman: I can’t believe you’re impressed. He doesn’t have a PHD in image processing. That’s outrageous.

[@offBeatRock777]

@Don falacy Basic knowledge does not equal expertise.

[@offBeatRock777]

@Don you don’t have a PhD in English so I disagree with your spellcheck

[@FatherManus]

Prove that pinching and zooming is image processing and adds something that wasnt there. You guys are repeaing this nonsense without providing any evidence whatsoever.

[@shanemoody529]

@@FatherManus The point the defense made to the judge was merely that it was possible that the pinch and zoom feature of an ipad includes utilizes interpolation which could introduce artifacts into the original image. It is on the prosecution at that point to demonstrate that it doesn't do that, likely through the use of an expert witness.

[@Plasmon19]

@Don "*You *spellcheck." You just played yourself.

[@AlGhoul]

I love that Pakman kept saying Destiny was super triggered, but brought up "copium" so many times. Projection much?

[@hatenbacon8306]

Both mistrials have to be asked for by a responsible attorney so that it can be part of consideration in an appeal process. It has nothing to do with how long the jury has deliberated it has to do with this case has gone through the whole case the judge isn’t going to stop anything at this point but the fact there are very serious disclosure issues and the request needs to be on the record

[@williambarnes3021]

55:25 "My audience, on the same basis of fact, are FILLED with people that think that I am being honest and you are being dishonest." That is EXACTLY the issue. David was not at all in good faith here.

[@jeremyfoster8944]

And Destiny was in good faith lying about how he appraised the judge's technological acumen. OK . Destiny is a 'progressivism for gen Z" -- nothing more

[@undeadman7676]

Destiny: “I think you mischaracterized a” Pakman: “But a and b both happened” Destiny: “I don’t care whether or not a and b both happened, i want to talk about a” Pakman: “so you concede that I’m talking about a, thank you” This made me unreasonably angry. Pakman is really, unironically stupid.

[@boliussa]

Actually Pakman is spot on that Destiny is misrepresenting him.. Even at 52:40 Destiny is still misrepresenting what Pakman said and saying that Pakman said it's "just for entertainment". Can you give the timeframe for what you are talking about?

[@realranger6297]

​@@boliussaPackman just got done saying he uses clickbait titles to draw in viewers. So yes, he said he makes his video for entertainment.

[@boliussa]

@@realranger6297 Dude Destiny is using clickbait too, look at his title with clash in capital letters. Look at his thumbnails, and how they focus on faces reacting, look how combative his titles are, he's clearly trying to draw in viewers. Besides tricks like destroying rollo tomassi in the context of a tweet (and he did it very well), but crediting sneako saying sneako destroyed rollo when sneako was just repeating destiny's point. Destiny is trying to turn sneako round and using some condescending psychological tactics in his title. People like destiny or anybody doing clickbait is doing it for entertainment, to draw in viewers. Think about it. Try reformulating your argument into something that makes sense and doesn't apply a double standard.

[@realranger6297]

@@boliussa my formulated argument is Packman argues in bad faith and is extremely passive aggressive. Starts the call telling Destiny he's worried about his mental health and ends it asking him if he's autistic.

[@boliussa]

@@realranger6297 well now you've given up your argument! I went into detail re clickbait, and the hypocrisy of your claim, and you just ignored it! IF pakman started ths convo asking him if he's autistic then it's likely Destiny said similar crazy things in a prior video that led to that one . So really, you're just going all over the place. You were talking about the clickbait subject but you seem t ohave given up on that.

[@HandyTot]

You called it.