HEATED Rittenhouse Debate w/ Sam Seder

DEBATE: Destiny and Sam Seder debate Kyle Rittenhouse, misinformation and citizens united...
Date: 7 Jul, 2022
▼Follow Destiny▼
►STREAM - www.destiny.gg/...
►DISCORD - discordapp.com...
►REDDIT - / destiny
►INSTAGRAM - / destiny
►MERCH - shop.destiny.gg/
Sam Seder
► / samseder
Check Out My Amazon: www.amazon.com...
Buy My Merch: shop.destiny.gg/
#Destiny

[@destiny]

HE KILLED 2 PEOPLE - Destiny Challenges Sam Seder To A Debate ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIaQgqSeh7aiors RITTENHOUSE COVERAGE ►kzbin.info/aero/PLFs19LVskfNyAurk3ukoZCLicrPIyPw7j Destiny Debates Sam Seder From The Majority Report. ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2LTqpR_brqWY5Y

[@bengreen171]

Isn't there a big difference between left wing/liberal media putting out news of a police shooting - an actual event that happened - and the way right wing media invents stories like voter fraud, trans agendas, post birth abortions etc? I think that difference is very important to remember, beyond the argument about what stories get coverage. I don't think you can have a world where every story receives a proportional share of coverage and still have news channels/programmes as we know it. You would have to reduce all news coverage to simple paragraphs in newspapers, with every story written once and once only (plus extra words for developments in the story), and I don't think that's tenable.

[@bengreen171]

your assertion that 'the left' pushed Rittenhouse to the Right because they demonised him is weak. It assumes he wasn't already entranced by the sort of propaganda Fox News had been selling. But it's pretty clear he went to the protest with a picture in his mind about the BLM supporters - that they were dangerous, out of control, and morally wrong. You don't freak out and start shooting people unless you had already been primed to expect to come face to face with 'monsters'. And you're acting like he had no choice but to curry favour with Tucker Carlson and the rest of them. He did have a choice. And yes - he could have stepped away from the limelight appearing on Hannity doesn't actually change his day to day life. It doesn't make him invisible and it certainly doesn't give him any protection in the street. It's a false dichotomy to claim he had to go to the right because the left demonised him. He could have just kept his head down and avoided all media. People protect their property all the time without the need for weapons. Rittenhouse could have stood in front of the building he wanted to protect with a fire extinguisher. He could have brought his granny down there with all her friends and I guarantee you that any rioter who attempted anything would have been taken down by the rest of the protesters. He didn't kill people who were trying to kill him. He killed people who he thought were trying to kill him. That's a very big difference.

[@ravenecho2410]

whats interesting is that destiny buys stochastic terrorism and their arguments - but doesn't buy that bringing a gun while counter protesting like wise can be a risk so large that the decision to bring it can be seen as a causal factor i think that's a bit of missed consistency, and just as people who speak of the great replacement commit moral wrongs - even though its probabilistically causal in causing violence is a direct parallel to kyle rittenhouse and bringing a gub.

[@ickyfist]

@@bengreen171 That's not a good argument. Imagine if a business basically hired no black people and were like, "Well there are only so many jobs to give out to people...if we had to hire more black people we'd have to reduce everyone's hours by a lot." The question still remains: why are you disproportionately hiring certain people. Applying that to this case, why are they disproportionately covering one type of issue over another? Usually the only difference is race and that's a problem. It's not about how newsworthy something is but how valuable it is to helping them push their agenda.

[@bengreen171]

@@ravenecho2410 and arguably, it's stochastic terrorism to whip up enough fear about the downfall of society, and rage about 'muh guns' and patriotism that has led to all the little Rittenhouses 'Ramboing' around with their AR-15's like there's a war on. And if that's the cause - the effect is Rittenhouse using his weapon. The idea that Kyle was some simple 'do-gooding' kid who just thought he was one of the Goonies is very hard to believe.

[@MasterOfInfinity]

Seeing Sam Seder yell 'guzzling buckets of come' is the greatest thing that has happened in the Debatebro sphere this month. No wonder Steven decided to drop the manifesto and retire after that.

[@acutecloudd7970]

I hope he makes it a dono sound

[@sjewitt22]

what do you mean retire?

[@eshaybah5581]

Its was soo funny when he kept mentioning those buckets, why is he so obsessed with these buckets i will never know.

[@metalmythology6282]

Is he legit done with politics after the manifesto?

[@qactus4031]

hold the fk up wdym retire

[@rossmanngroup]

The citizens united back and forth I got his point on but the entirety of the Rittenhouse debate had me raging in my car

[@jettcs3218]

my man louis is a ddger the more you know

[@politicalandy]

yeah even if I still don't agree with his framing I understand how seder was taking issue with it; I just agree with Destiny that the supreme court is literally there with the understanding that sometimes we have to make these watershed rulings that will effect more than just the case being ruled on at the moment by virtue of valuing consistency in law

[@Delta169]

Love your content Louis! I'm sure you enjoy listening on these on those long drives.

[@randomboii9166]

@@jettcs3218 yea he has based comments on a lot of vids

[@JellothePallascat]

I was just thinking how your appearance on Seder’s show changed my opinion of him. After you gave him an answer he didn’t want. But couldn’t not agree with. He seemed angry and frustrated that was the case. And I couldn’t trust him fully anymore. Cheers!!!

[@obitosensei9365]

Gained my respect for defending Rittenhouse. My mind is blown at the amount of people still calling him a cold blooded murderer with all the video evidence available. I literally can’t process how someone could think it wasn’t self defense other than hating him for his political affiliation, which is just sad.

[@griffinforberg9147]

I watching a clip of Christian Walker where Emma Vigeland and another one of them casually brought up Rittenhouse being a murderer. It speaks volumes to the kind of people they are. I feel like Destiny is one the few real ones left out there for online politics.

[@pnwpariah8691]

@B H agreed, I think he was definitely in the right to shoot, but it is kind of scummy how he has grifted off of the event afterwards. That being said with how politicized the case was, I don’t know if there is another way forward for him.

[@pnwpariah8691]

@B H 100%

[@OGgluttonoustoad]

He also put himself in that situation. Sure, I guess it was self-defense after he drove from hours away and started patrolling the streets with a large firearm

[@pnwpariah8691]

@@OGgluttonoustoad I think he was more like 15-20 minutes away, from what I’ve seen Kenosha was his community. His dad lives there I think

[@SmilingStoic]

"Crossed state lines" on Rittenhouse is a straight up tell for someone who doesn't want to frame the issue honestly.

[@SmilingStoic]

@@goblin6587 it is literally true, yes.

[@TYBG85]

​​@@goblin6587 yes it is but when people were saying that they were doing it to imply it's another of many laws he supposedly broke. When people typically hear the phrase "crossed state lines" it's in reference to drug runners and gun runners. So because Rittenhouse legally owned a gun media and online commenters just threw the phrase around knowing what it implies to the uneducated. Kinda like how most people I ran into online and off assumed Rittenhouse killed two black people because the media referred to the deceased as "BLM protestors" which is true but they knew people who aren't paying close attention will assume he killed two innocent black protesters which I believe significantly contributed to how bad it got. The Blake case itself has turned out to be not what everyone thought it was. At the time it wasn't mainstream news that at the time of that stop he had two of his kids in the backseat who were reported kidnapped and Blake has just assaulted the mother of his kids. And they didn't often show the beginning of the video where Blake wrestled the cops off of him evading arrest and only showed when he got back to his car to reach under the seat. Which was for a knife supposedly.

[@matts1166]

Hell, three weeks AFTER the trial ended Cenk fron the Young Turks was still describing how Rittenhouse chased his first victim down to execute him.

[@19e-k2m]

@@goblin6587 It literally has nothing more to do with the case then him crossing the sidewalk. But go on parrot away🦜

[@shanepurcell8116]

@@19e-k2m There's not a legal distinction there?

[@carnivorous_vegan]

The most hilarious part is that Sam Seder KNEW about the guzzling buckets of coom, he even had it written down... and he STILL talked with destiny with a calm tone in the beginning.

[@killzone866]

thats why Sams great

[@teewhyeee]

@@killzone866 no he's not

[@gaelmoreno4818]

@@teewhyeee why

[@magusd123]

@@gaelmoreno4818 because he is a liar. i don’t beleive for 1 minute that he never read anything about rittenhouse or never saw the videos.

[@yautjacetanu]

I'm not going to lie it's change my view on Sam a bit. And the fact he kept repeating buckets of cum over and over was hilarious. I feel like Sam was genuinely annoyed at what he thought was destiny's misrepresentation of his position but also finding it hilarious at the same time.

[@slurve0h]

You know Destiny getting serious with a debate when he actually focuses on his guests and doesn't multitask.

[@enlightenednormie242]

Destiny is OPM of debating Confirmed!🤣😄

[@solangegregory4810]

Yeah, he saw he was getting his ass kicked rhetorically by Sam.

[@chaddyheals4035]

I’m not a Majority Report simp but Sam Seder is a strong debater

[@bradders9743]

He has a lot of respect for Sam

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

Yeah I can't stand 8 people talking at once

[@MarieAntoinetteandherlittlesis]

There’s nothing worse than having a strong opinion on something that you know nothing about. I was heavily disappointed when Sam Cedar said he didn’t watch the trial. A trial is the laying out of facts and evidence. How can you make a decision if YOU DON’T GATHER FACTS FIRST??

[@capitalist4life]

That’s the thing about being ignorant… you can’t appreciate how flawed your opinions might be.

[@mynameisamon]

its seems more that seder was implying he doesnt watch televised court trials because of the media circus/spectacle they can become - he can still be well informed of the facts of a trial by reading court documents and reports since thats what we have done and still do with past trials before cameras in courts were a thing - what do you think? and is there something i might be missing or not understanding?

[@cameronfair2397]

You obviously missed what the debate was about. Sam didnt come on to debate about Rittenhouse, he said repeatedly you will find no videos about the case he has made because he doesnt care. He came to debate Destiny saying he would guzzle buckets of cum if Rittenhouse was black and was creating outrage. Sams one and only point(and what they were supposed to be debating) was that Destiny was creating a strawman and doing exactly what he was accusing sam of by saying that. Destiny conceded that point almost immediately debate over, Sam won. Everything after was just a discussion about a subject Sam doesnt care about, doesnt usually debate about but made an exception because he was having fun talking to Destiny.

[@stanislovBrown]

The kid was looking for an opportunity to use his gun and he made that happen. That’s all you need to know. You just like that he shot a racial justice protester (you’d call all of them rioters)

[@ImortalZeus13]

He said it himself: he wants to discourage as many people from confronting protestors with guns as possible. It didn’t matter how good Kyle behaved because Sam’s only interest is in getting more people to do things he wants, and not the more valuable and useful ability to make moral judgments on when violence is and is not an acceptable form of self defense.

[@hsharma3933]

When you can keep changing your argument on the fly and refuse to account for it, you’re never wrong.

[@CthulhuTheory]

Dude waffles harder than Lav ever did.

[@joshuajgrillot]

And that My friend is Sam Seder

[@katloranger8300]

Hilarious

[@trewthhip-hop1858]

When did he change his argument?

[@YoutubeLovesCowards]

@@trewthhip-hop1858 anytime he is faced with a logical point of view that proves his point wrong.

[@ezsteezy1222]

he didn’t watch the trial but he surely has strong opinions about it. makes sense

[@FirstLast-dh8ks]

plausible deniability. You have your cake and eat it too

[@travis6339]

In context of this discussion Sam was referring to trials like the Rittenhouse Trial and the OJ Trial, and I've heard him talk about it on his show before as well. There's truth to the fact that those cases are more so spectacles and their outcomes usually don't have a broader impact on legislation and it's judicial interpretation later on. In fact, the Supreme Court has a policy NOT to record their cases on video, although C-SPAN's started to stream the audio of the oral arguments as of late. Sam does keep his finger on the pulse of the SCOTUS though, wherein the importance of the case typically can't be assessed until the ruling is revealed to the public. Once the cases are accepted for the next SC term, Sam will occasionally speak on the background of the case. After the ruling, Sam will usually have legal experts come on, sometimes going so far as to speak with the Amicus Curiae or pertinent actors in these cases (like Russ Feingold for Citizen's United)

[@thomasmacisaac1503]

@@travis6339 That's hardly the point. Sam mischaracterizes the entire Rittenhouse event through lies of omission any time he talks about it when being familiar with the details of the case would disabuse him and his audience of those notions. He wouldn't even have to watch the trial when the video was available online hours after it happened and showed without any ambiguity that Rittenhouse was in the right. Sam is a hack.

[@ramigilneas9274]

@@thomasmacisaac1503 That’s the thing… this was one of the clearest cases of self defense in history. Most of the facts were already known within days of the event… and people like Sam kept lying about the facts for a year… some even kept lying after the verdict. So I really hope that Kyle can sue a few of those dangerous ideologues.😉

[@thomasmacisaac1503]

@@ramigilneas9274 🤞

[@AmonGus-mi4rz]

Destiny’s rhetoric has really improved. He was really composed and structured his arguments in a really non-aggressive, conversational way. The rhetoric arc is working.

[@williamwayne4043]

I mean there some buckets that might disagree with you.

[@yoboiboy4182]

I think it’s cuz he’s debating Sam Seder, a guy who he respects. Normally he’d half-ass the convo while playing video games

[@qactus4031]

Yea guy above me nailed it. He surely made a lot fo progress, but he was being extra friendly and patient because of their shared history and who Sam used to be.

[@YouJGSousa]

@@qactus4031 the problem is that it ends up being super boring. There is a difference between being a shouting unhinged and pushing back.

[@kylewilliamholdsworth3737]

He was composed but wrong.

[@militaryman9638]

If it takes a rittenhouse level defense for self defense justification in anyone's mind, you have no idea what's realistic.

[@FirstLast-dh8ks]

a distorted version of reality, couldn't ask for a more clear cut case

[@aaronpaul6601]

You mean how he went there to be a vigilant? That draws no red flags in your mind?

[@jimismacho]

@@aaronpaul6601 red flags do not a murderer make.

[@demon3203]

Suggest you all look into the vegas riots. There were a bunch of asian dudes sitting on rooftops with guns threatening and in some cases shooting people who would come to their business. Everyone understood that is okay and unlike what happened in this case they are just protecting property. While rittenhouse was protecting life... If this isn't a no brainer thing to you then thank god none of you create laws or enforce them.

[@jseden]

@@euphegenia yet the prosecutor still felt the need to lie and cross legal lines at every opportunity... But sure, they had a solid case 🙄

[@zacshifler]

He keeps saying Rittenhouse is untrained. One thing is certain; his aim and trigger discipline while running backwards/ laying on his back/ hitting moving targets, was totally exceptional. He is definitely well trained with that firearm

[@19e-k2m]

The ncp’s seem to love trained professionals who do horrible and are 180 degrees wrong(like Fauci on several occasions) and hate anyone who actually gets it right and does the right thing that is proven right in time.

[@MidgetPunter]

Not to mention ability to clear a malfunction, chamber a round and put a shot on target while on his ass being attacked. Most grown men in law enforcement wouldn't of been able to manipulate the firearm the way Kyle did and to still put the next shot on target.

[@jasonmorgan27]

Bro, how fast reaction to that forward assist under extreme chaos was something that most special forces could not not execute . It was an absolute clinic in as a weapons operator.

[@danzeljohnson3341]

@@MidgetPunterjust to not get flustered and fire was impressive enough for me. I don’t think people understand he would have been justified letting off more shots because a crowd was chasing him at one point and not just a couple guys

[@shape4234]

Dude he shot the guys arm the SECOND he pulled out his pistol to try and kill him Kyle 100% was very well trained

[@Ekitchi0]

39:00 The mistake that cost two people their lives wasn’t done by Rittenhouse, it was done by the people attacking him.That’s why he was exonerated.

[@solangegregory4810]

Who gets to decide self defense? Only the person that survives the shoot out, apparently. The second two could easily argue they were trying to defend themselves and the crowd from a mass shooter. Do you not see how insane this whole idea is, that everyone shows up armed to a confrontation and decides everyone else is a threat ?

[@mezmerizer0266]

@@solangegregory4810 did any, literally anyone else in the crowd show up to testify they felt scared by Rittenhouse? No. Because everyone who was there on scene knew what was going on, and with their own eyes saw the self defense, heard what was happening as well.

[@solangegregory4810]

@@mezmerizer0266 Are you joking lol? So pray tell, why did two random people try to take down Kyle? Just for shits and giggles? Why would a guy armed with only a skateboard try to disarm an armed person, if not for fear he would shoot someone else? They didn't have anyone testify to something fucking OBVIOUS because they thought it was implied. Apparently they overestimated people's intelligence vastly.

[@deeznutz8320]

@@solangegregory4810 Sit down femoid

[@endermugen]

@@solangegregory4810 there is literally video of both deaths. There is no need to speculate as to how the dead pedophile and domestic abuser would argue their defense. There is clear video.

[@anthonyrose2232]

Wrongful death ? They literally chased him and attacked him 😂

[@ImortalZeus13]

Lefties think every loss of human life is a “tragic wrongful death :(“ unless you’re a rich person in a submarine

[@jackshepherd93]

But you are missing the point, you are not allowed to stop rioters doing anything including killing you Or you are a racist Checkmate

[@Prometheus4096]

And he killed them.

[@Sparrows1121]

Sam is a bad faith debater, so no wonder why he always is a loser

[@rogerdodger4212]

@@Prometheus4096 Yes…and?

[@FailosHD]

the best kind of truth: technically the truth

[@DocOrtmeyer]

*LAWYERS*

[@TheUncheckedComments]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@hcnuup]

"You went to the woods, took bear mace with you, and ended up macing a bear. You went to the woods to mace bears. You are a psychopath"

[@roscodogg]

Who maced bears? Whose a psychopath?

[@hcnuup]

@@roscodogg Kyle Rittenhouse. I don't know you could get confused about this.

[@roscodogg]

@@hcnuup Kyle went to a community literally being destroyed... by humans He didn't go there to destroy humans! He went there to stop them from destroying some of what was left and protect innocent people (mostly himself) in the process. If anyone is a psychopath in the scenario, it's the people acting like bears. And the people on tv and in gov't lying about statistics and the specifics of cases to GET them to act like bears. You know- the stochastic terr.or.ism that was briefly mentioned- yet for unknown reasons oddly attributed (incorrectly) to Tucker Carlson 🤔

[@Crypt0rkid]

@@roscodoggyou

[@frankn5812]

@@roscodoggIt’s an analogy bruther.

[@bobsmith4226]

Rittenhouse could've been a neo nazi who went there with bad intentions. That doesn't really matter when all the guys he shot go about forcing him into situations where he can justifiably use lethal force in self defense because they're presenting a believable imminent threat of bodily harm or death to him. Being an asshole and all round bad guy doesn't mean you lose the ability to defend yourself and should just let others do you harm or try to kill you. I have no doubt his feelings were inflamed when he saw the destruction of property on TV like many others. Does that mean he can kill them for it? No, and he didn't. He killed and maimed only persons that tried to do him harm.

[@metaempiricist]

Its like Sam Hyde said: Looks like you boys just put yourself right in the middle of a self defense situation.

[@adityaray86]

looks like you are intentionally missing the point about Rittenhouse being an asshole - it is not about his character but how an untrained overzealous kid wth a gun in a dynamic protest situation is more likely to get himself and other around him in right clusterfuck, than those more experienced.

[@adityaray86]

just cuz you know how to shoot does not make you less of danger to yourself and others - in fact the more crazy you are the more unpredictable the situation. This ironically seems to guns rights americans/ and destiny's favourite blindspot. question is why.

[@metaempiricist]

@@adityaray86 The fact that you think it doesn't make you less of a danger to yourself and others to know how to safely and accurately handle and shoot a gun is insanely stupid of you.

[@gogeta667]

Kyle Rittenhouse openly supported BLM, just not the objective and overt destruction of the town his dad lived in and he worked in. He went out to clean graffiti and basically volunteered as protection. As did many others. He was attacked for his troubles, putting a fire out, by a pedophile who had driven there to riot after being let out of a mental facility. He was then assaulted multiple times in his attempts to flee the dangerous scene. Even the dude that survived, Guage somethin, admitted in court Kyle shot him only AFTER he aimed his gun. The amount of people I see who still think Kyle killed two black dudes just really is demoralizing. Those people vote and they're equal to your vote.

[@Blankfbuser]

Hes taking the Vaush approach "he just should have submitted to mob rule"

[@NicoNL]

They’re unironically pro lynching

[@roguewasbanned4746]

Yeah the pro lynching view lmao

[@danielshepard1449]

I love how Sam didn't even say anything close to this in the video but you are programmed to use the buzzword phrases

[@dillonnauta8601]

Sam said he defended himself if you were listening. He's using the 'shouldn't have been there' argument.

[@tripledigit4835]

That’s not a fair interpretation of what Sam said. Even if you disagree with Sam on Rittenhouse he never said and implied “Rittenhouse should submit to mob rule”

[@actualperson9628]

Let’s ignore he shot someone who was chasing him for putting out a literal dumpster fire he was pushing into a gas station.. After shots went off behind him and rossenbaum grabbed for his gun… After rossenbaum threatened to kill him and others that night..

[@micahatkins5286]

……as was his his claim in court. But, let’s not ignore that none of the sh*t would’ve happened if he’d stayed his underaged a** at home.

[@uppercutgrandma4425]

It takes an academic mind to see being chased down by a mob as a peaceful demonstration.

[@danielshepard1449]

Interesting, so you are saying Kyle started this confrontation by putting out fires and confronting people over property damage during a riot? Hmm I wonder why he would do that....almost as if he purposely put himself in a scenario where he could shoot people who were rioting or something.

[@Voltroc]

@@danielshepard1449 Nah fam, it's cause he's a white supremacist looking for white people to shoot, duh.

[@DB1Dragoon]

@@danielshepard1449 Over property he and his friends were asked to protect, there are multiple pictures of Kyle and others with the owners of the property, the owners even admitted to driving the guy who helped organize the people who arrived that night, stop being dishonest.

[@daxisperry7644]

He conceded that Rittenhouse traveling isn't really an issue...then later yells "He drove 20 minutes across state lines!"

[@Mr_Paulino]

@31:45 That guzzler’s comment was hilarious 😂

[@Thenumber12pwns]

Yeah especially when Sam kept repeating it and destiny would just start laughing lol

[@shipwreckeddemon1943]

To me, it showed me that maybe it is time our boy left the political sphere. That petty little comment was so not needed. From a guy, I respect for seeking to be more rhetorically effective to do something like that and just snicker every time afterwards told me Stephen is a child at heart. Kinda broke my heart actually. Sad to see those you respect act in such a way.

[@wakkablockablaw6025]

It's funny because it's true

[@stanleyelnats]

@@shipwreckeddemon1943 it was obviously a joke and meant to be taken as such unlike many of Sams points which were conpletely disingenuous and meant to pander to left leaning listeners. Also if Destiny left then we would just be left with people like Sam who thunks that burning down a building is the same as stealing a pack of skittles.

[@ronmexico7256]

@@shipwreckeddemon1943 Yeah just when you think he’s so close he falls back into this behaviour 😢

[@zarka223]

That George Floyd framing Destiny used to prove his point was *chef’s kiss* BEAUTIFUL!

[@michaeldromes3948]

Yeah that was a massive L on Seder's part. "Just frame things however you want" is such a self sabotaging thing to say for a political commentator.

[@cabbytabby]

Can you give me the time stamp?

[@zarka223]

@@cabbytabby 40:07

[@cabbytabby]

@@zarka223 thank you

[@Matt-tr7sx]

Merely pointing out that something is framed a certain way isn’t a gotcha. Framing things in a particular way is what political commentators do. The issue is the underlying intent. The Floyd example serves an indefensible underlying intent.

[@Vic2point0]

Only criticism is you really should've forced Sam to admit the Kenosha rioting was also bullshit. WTF are the police supposed to do, let him take off with two little kids in the back seat, potentially killing them all while fleeing from the cops?

[@Reignor99]

hi again

[@igotadildoinmyassrnbut8104]

how does that change anything lmao

[@maxmensch8910]

Wasn't the guy shot by the police the father of those kids?

[@Vic2point0]

@@maxmensch8910 They were, but he was violating a restraining order just by being there. Suffice to say it had been determined he had no right to take off with three of their children.

[@maxmensch8910]

​@@Vic2point0 Shooting someone over violating a restraining order seems a little bit out of proportion, to put it mildly.

[@trevorandrade]

The situation was basically that a kid was being pursued by a mob because he put out a fire. They DIDN"T like the fact that he was putting out fires. That is what started this whole thing. All you need to know is that one side supports the kid putting out fires. The other side supports the mob that got angry that the kid was putting out fires.

[@pheebs818]

Facts

[@OIOOOIOOOOOOO]

They were chasing him because he had just shot somone with an assault rifle lmao

[@thejuniorseas7683]

​@@OIOOOIOOOOOOORosenbaum chased Kyle because he put out the fire that Rosenbaum and a group of rioters ignited. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

[@OIOOOIOOOOOOO]

@@thejuniorseas7683 the original comment said "chased by a mob", clearly referring to the crowd that was chasing him after he shot Rosenbaum. I'm not even anti Rittenhouse, the original comment was just wrong.

[@domquinnchandler]

@@OIOOOIOOOOOOOcringe

[@ianmoone6562]

Past the fact that dude only reacted to agression... Kyle, the koreans in LA, the mexicans in chicago they are all the same. Got beef with the government go handle it but if you decide to pick on the communities 11/10 you deserve whatever they got reserved for you.

[@OttisR0t]

The Koreans in LA were protecting their property

[@mitchjames9350]

@@OttisR0t and rightfully so, Kyle was putting out fires and attending to injured before he was set upon by scumbags.

[@OttisR0t]

@@mitchjames9350 I wasn't sure 2hqt direction OP was going. But the Rittenhouse case was one of the most insane things I've ever watched minus OJ and Casey Anthony. But honestly, Rittenhouse case was worse than Casey because of the lies, deceit and hypocrisy. Casey was the only one lying but in Rittenhouses case, the world was lying

[@dylan-5287]

@@OttisR0t the Koreans were protecting their community property, not necessarily their personal property. Similar to rittenhouse. When the riots broke out the local Korean radio station basically became the HQ. Many of those Korean Americans had fought in the Korean War. So the veterans with experience were sent out to the areas where riots were occurring to protect property. So not necessarily their personal property but rather the community they didn't want destroyed.

[@kukuyeah]

Rittenhouse didn't "roam the streets". He was on the lot of a car dealership and only left it to put out a fire. That's when he was attacked and pursued through the streets. This debate feels like I fell into a wormhole into 2021. All of this stuff was talked about at length in the trial.

[@mattt9187]

The only mistake Grosskreutz made was not shooting first. If he had this would be a non-issue. But he was a mature man with a gun and little Kyle was a teenager who's parents dropped him off in a dangerous situation he lacked the ability to deal with. Child abuse by any other name.

[@explosivez1]

Yes let me go out with a AR, in a riot….

[@razacosmicapilled]

@@explosivez1 based

[@MrMCN1963]

@@explosivez1right? how is it so difficult for the small penis crowd to understand that guns are for self defense. you aren’t defensive when leading with the chin

[@basedbrit4206]

@@explosivez1 Yeah man you should just let people riot and kill indiscriminately

[@hunter3551]

Destiny is missing the part about how Kyle Rittenhouse was in Kenosha the day before and how he was a volunteer EMT and he was carrying a medkit and the gun was secondary to defend himself. There's pictures of him doing volunteer work in kenosha

[@guyfanno1]

He actually took 2 medkits with him, a big one and one he could carry on his person. But people get triggered because he called himself an EMT and ignore the medkits. Technically no he was not a fully qualified EMT but he was more than qualified to do more than basic first aid with all his training. l think he just used EMT as it was easier to yell out. And most of the time he just yelled medical anyway. I dont see how saying you are an EMT negates your right to defend yourself. .

[@aydan910]

the guy he shot in the hand and permanently paralyzed was also an EMT helping protesters in kenosha.

[@hunter3551]

@@aydan910 both of the guys he shot attacked him so it doesn't matter what he was, rittenhouse protected himself

[@mitchjames9350]

There are videos of him putting out fires and attending to the injured before he was set upon by leftist goons.

[@mitchjames9350]

@@aydan910 your lying, kyle killed two and the third wasn’t paralysed. He was a criminal who crossed state lines carrying an illegally obtained gun and had pulled it on Kyle which is why he got shot. Where do you get that he was an EMT helping people?

[@RivetCityRamsey]

"I don't watch trials, I just give I give misinformed opinions on them"

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

No

[@RivetCityRamsey]

@@JohnSmith-yd5wq What?

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

@@RivetCityRamsey Seder said he read the most comprehensive reporting on Rittenhouse. Which was the GQ article. He just doesn't watch or cover trials. Practice your listening comprehension. BTW Destiny said that Sam was factually correct.

[@RivetCityRamsey]

@@JohnSmith-yd5wq What makes you think anyone asked?

[@vercengetorixrex5953]

If that Blake guy killed those kids and another family in a crash and was taken into custody without incident, theyd be more outraged at him not getting BK than the deaths. Pretending to care about black ppl theyd be terrified of in any other context is like fantasy football to this sect.

[@Wingster]

I literally just opened KZbin

[@gilbertoperalta2172]

Bro the exact same feeling you are having right now I have to every time I open Twitter

[@j.c.jeggis1818]

Take a shot every time Sam gets heated about Rittenhouse and then throws his hands up and says that he doesn't care as soon as Destiny pins him on something

[@caseypdx503]

Sam "he's an asshole" Seder

[@feliz2564]

You're asking me to get wasted there buddy🤣

[@danielshepard1449]

I took 0 shots

[@CumSmuggler]

@@danielshepard1449 GUZZLING

[@Cannablisst]

I wish I could feel a buzz we need a lower bar here

[@troll707]

Wow I'm glad Sam dropped out of law school. Actually embarrassing the distances he'll go to smear someone who defended themselves

[@amandanorris8]

You sure he dropped out? Or flunked out?

[@jackshepherd93]

Was he right about one think in this entire video ?

[@Prometheus4096]

Sam isn't making any legal arguments, lol. At least Sam flunked out of prestigious law school, after already getting his BSc. And not flunking out of community college music degree to play video games.

[@Sparrows1121]

@@Prometheus4096 So flunking out to smoke loser weed is better? Ok whatever liberals -_-

[@NotThePoint-r7n]

@@Prometheus4096 At least he is guzzling the c*m of black men :D

[@Rofel_Wodring]

Did Destiny forget the term "lying by omission"? When Seder cherry-picks his "facts" about Rittenhouse while ignoring others and even then still get one or two wrong. Easy example of this happened as soon as the trial began and a lot of people came out on social media stating they didn't even know the people who got shot were white, which considering the context the shooting should be an important information specially since it was in the summer of love of 2020.

[@HolyCanoley]

Does Destiny not do the same thing? Forget the legal, moral, etc. points about this situation that Destiny (inexplicably in my opinion) keeps hitting his viewers and everyone he talks to about this situation over the head with...what about the common sense aspects of Kyles decisions? Is it so hard to simply say "ya, this kid was kind of a moron....and most reasonable people who not have made the decisions he did."?

[@dfmrcv862]

@@HolyCanoley if Kyle was a moron for being there with a rifle what does that say of the people that caused him to actually decide to be there? You know... The rioters setting everything on fire? If you think Kyle is a moron then you also have to agree he was at least smarter than everyone that showed up to riot over a good police shooting.

[@tb8654]

@@HolyCanoley have you watched any of Destiny's videos on this topic? He has stated exactly that a multitude of times

[@tb8654]

@@HolyCanoley have you watched any of Destiny's videos on this topic or are you just biased as hell and are trying to speak on this without even knowing anything beyond a surface level? He has stated exactly that a multitude of times

[@AkaiKnight]

@@HolyCanoley He's said that several times, but its literally never good enough for you people.

[@edcaous]

It's weird to see progressives embracing the "she was asking for it" argument.

[@BruskPoet]

GUZZLERS UNITE 🥛

[@omis6610]

Google translates this to: UNITED GUZZLERS 🥛

[@sladewilson3362]

@@omis6610 GOOGLE TRANSLATE GIGACHAD

[@ataridc]

guzzle gang

[@JamiesonA1987]

Yes king

[@MistaaPep]

*Drinks buckets and smiles*

[@KoryFPV]

So Sam doesnt even watch the trial, yet feels Kyle was not justified in protecting his own life? This dude is a joke.

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

That's not what Seder said.

[@holidaytrout5174]

Completely irrelevant to Rittenhouse, but if people are rioting, why the hell shouldn't you be able to protect your property with lethal force? Why do rioters have a right to destroy? But suddenly people who defend their property (and more likely their lives) shouldn't do that?

[@francisxavier8374]

being unable to protect your property with lethal force would not, in any way, give rioters a right to destroy, that's fucking retarded also i think he said he was fine with people protecting their own business ( i think he mmentioned bodegas ) also with guns

[@danielshepard1449]

Because it's 1. Illegal and 2. Immoral. Property isn't a person, so why should you be able to take someone's life over it? Why do you property owners have a right to kill for their property? They don't, not in America or any other place I know of. That's why Destiny avoids directly saying he wants to kill people for property damage, but we all know that's what this is really about, so I appreciated your honesty. This debate would be much easier if conservatives just admitted they wanted to shoot people for breaking stuff.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Because my team good, capitalism bad

[@holidaytrout5174]

@@danielshepard1449 why would you risk your life to attack people's property? People's property is what makes their living. It's what they invest their money and time into. Why wouldn't they want to defend it? And why wouldn't you want to encourage this kinda wretched behavior by standing down? I don't want people to die, but they should be able to defend property destruction with lethal force

[@Fingolfin30]

@@danielshepard1449 It’s immoral to protect someone’s livelihood? That’s probably the dumbest thing I’ve heard. Kyle shot people because they attacked him, not because they were destroying property.

[@Tangerinian]

he will never live down the jizzler stuff

[@TheAbsoluteSir]

He made that so much worse for himself. Clipped lmao.

[@Mremsee90]

You think he’d run from that? I think he said it multiple times about himself for a laugh. He quoted it a few times on his own show while chuckling

[@Tangerinian]

@@Mremsee90 well he said it completely red in the face. And people on twitter will constantly be in his comments saying "JIZZLER JIZZLER JIZZLER" for years

[@danielshepard1449]

Wow a "you like jizz" joke? You really GOT HIM bro! How will Sam ever recover?

[@danielkrcmar5395]

"Wrongful death" is still downplaying the fact that it was in self-defence and has been decided at court that it was self-defence.

[@HistoricaHungarica]

And lynching black people in the 19th century was a-okay i guess. After all, the judges believed so.

[@danielkrcmar5395]

@@HistoricaHungarica Absolutely irrelevant and a non-comparable.

[@bbegins10]

He wouldn’t have been there, it was totally irresponsible of him.

[@TheSundayShooter]

@@bbegins10 Nobody was supposed to be there after curfew

[@dragames]

it wasn't even ruled wrongful death. So he's actually telling a lie.

[@hardknoxblount]

Thank you Destiny! I laughed my arse off every time Sam said "guzzling buckets of cum". Besides you having the superior argument here, Sam repeating that line over and over again was the best part of this debate. 😂 And for the record, I think you were correct in describing how Sam would react had the roles been reversed.

[@IamCanadian3333]

Lmao right? I was like, "Damn Sam is really stuck on that isn't he? What's with his weird obsession with that?" 🤣🤣

[@mt1990sweg]

Sam’s right, that’s why.

[@abbeyprice7413]

​@@mt1990sweghe's not and his voice is annoying

[@KinoTechUSA69]

​@@mt1990swegSam is objectively wrong. We have video evidence of the entire altercation. Take the L

[@sc3609]

the saying - thou protest too much. lol

[@Septurez]

props to Seder for actually talking to you

[@yoboiboy4182]

Seder talks to just about anyone lol. He lets randoms phone into his show to debate all the time.

[@henhousecannibalstudios310]

Yeah man, thanks for making that comment , I’m a fan of Seders and learned about destiny a few years back through his show… reading through the comments in this stuff is driving me nuts.. people calling Seder the “slipperiest liar they’ve ever seen” the dude comes on Destinys stream to have a discussion about a disagreement the way he does every single day on his show with live calls .. I think these idiots have no idea that none of the political commentators they listen to would ever do that..

[@yermil890]

Yeah man props to seder for being open to aggressively lying to all kinds people and acting like hes angry/offended when they say he's a liar

[@PrimoPete]

He is only talking to Destiny coz they share an audience, of course he feels he needs to defend him fallacious arguments.

[@yermil890]

@@PrimoPete theyre not fallacious if theyre true. He only cares cuz hes like hasan or vaush. They only care cuz they want money

[@snowballeffect7812]

destiny straight up wrong on citizens united. "this will be argued every time!" no it won't and it literally was not. it was "just fine" until citizen's united. pretty bad faith, tbh.

[@megaton2169]

How is that bad faith? Not trying to be aggressive here just wondering

[@snowballeffect7812]

@@megaton2169 sam described how it was. destiny is acting like if they didn't make the broad ruling on citizen's united, literally every media company will have to justify themselves in court. obviously that wasn't the case since if it was, we would have had this decision immediately after campaign finance reform and not wait until citizens united to appeal up to SCOTUS. it's a slippery slope strawman that is debunked prehoc. I haven't seen something so puerile from destiny in a long while.

[@megaton2169]

@@snowballeffect7812 alright i can see that thx

[@snowballeffect7812]

@@megaton2169 no problem. happy to clarify.

[@undeadman7676]

It's INCREDIBLY bad faith to start up a conversation about Citizen's United for dunking points in a debate about Kyle Rittenhouse. Of course Destiny isn't going to get it right. He wrote all of his notes for Kyle Rittenhouse. Not giving your opponent prep time is a super dick move.

[@TigerTzu]

The final cope of someone who's Dead. Fucking. Wrong. is to say, "Well, he may not have done anything illegal, or even necessarily immoral... but... he's just such a jerk!"

[@zhengyingli]

It's like Matt Braunger being exposed live on Joe Rogan for admitting not knowing anything about the Covington kids situation. In the end, knowing he has made a fool of himself, Matt keeps harping on the MAGA hat.

[@danielshepard1449]

Good thing no one in this conversation said that

[@TigerTzu]

@@danielshepard1449 You must not have watched it then

[@chaoscreations9744]

Apparently, at the time of this debate, neither one of you had the fundamental facts Rittenhouse was staying at a friends house the night Blake was shot He was already there. He didn’t go to Kenosha because he heard about the riots. He spent more than 50% of his time in Kenosha. He worked in Kenosha his dad lives in Kenosha. His dad owns a business in Kenosha. Kenosha is definitely his community. He originally went there during the day, and there’s video evidence of him offering assistance to protesters. No weapon. He was not roaming the streets that is a false narrative . He was in one location noticed people starting a fire, grab the fire extinguisher, went to put it out. When he did, he was threatened with violence and being chased down and told he was going to be killed if he was caught. That’s when Kyle Rittenhouse shot his first attacker. When Rittenhouse heard people saying get him, he decided to run towards the police. As running toward the police down the street, he was then starting to be attacked by several others. People who he hesitated to shoot at. The only three people he actually shot were the three people that were will being life-threatening violent towards him. Imagine that? being chased down by more than a dozen people, and attacked by more than 6 and in fear of your life, you managed to only shoot the three people that were being life-threatening violent to you. Sam admits that he doesn’t know all the facts because he didn’t watch the case. He literally has no clue what he’s talking about here, and he’s formed an opinion based on his own ignorance. That should tell you a lot about Sam. He is intellectually dishonest.

[@jf1341]

Sam says his only issue is Rittenhouse monetization, then immediately brings up John Doyle giving showing his prejudice

[@erica.7231]

I just think its funny he gets seder's undies in such a twist. He should stick to playing with crowder lol

[@MrGohanwill]

I mean I think he revealed his prejudice when he said he thought the kid was an a****le. Don't think he was trying to hide.

[@jacksyoutubechannel4045]

My favorite part is when he says, "John Doyle [...] is [...] a white nationalist, we know this," and then later says, "I don't know much about John Doyle." (@ 0:33:24 & @ 0:45:13)

[@hughquigley5337]

@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 You don't have to know much about John Doyle to know that he is a white nationalist and a conservative Catholic.

[@hughquigley5337]

@@MrGohanwill People who show up to civil unrest with a firearm are the biggest assholes. They're like walking, talking, aggression inciting assholes

[@MegaIronica]

Sam Seder : "he was an ass hole" Destiny : "he has the right to be so" No one said he doesn't have the right to be an ass hole.

[@HistoricaHungarica]

Buddy, in Destiny’s mind morals ARE the rights. And vice versa.

[@wisemage0]

Ok. Then all of the rioters are also assholes. Especially the ones who brought firearms.

[@MegaIronica]

@@HistoricaHungarica so according to you or you assessment of Destiny's position "because people have the right to be ass holes, it is moral to be an ass hole"

[@bryced7633]

dont act like thats the only thing Sam said.....

[@goodmonson9903]

Sam wanted him convicted lmao, you're right that he does have the right to be an asshole but everyone who was rooting against him in the court case is rooting for that right to be taken away

[@shizuoheiw]

So Sam's postion is that bad things shouldn't happen? Ground breaking

[@KingstonHawke]

No. Sam's position is that Kyle is a gross idiot. And he's clearly right.

[@TheHybrid350]

It's funny to me people are critical of this being Sam's point after claiming he's wrong and factually incorrect about Rittenhouse. Then when he says what he believes, people just say oh who cares its boring bro

[@shizuoheiw]

@@TheHybrid350 it is funny, because he thinks people dieing is morally bad therefor Kyle Rittenhouse is bad because he killed people, it's literally the morality a child would have

[@shizuoheiw]

@@novelas3536 are you a fed?

[@yoboiboy4182]

@@shizuoheiw no he thinks making money off of ppls deaths is what’s morally wrong

[@mitchellgaston2043]

Sam is such a clown “I didn’t watch the trial and I don’t watch any media about the topic” “Here’s my very strong opinion even though I don’t know anything about the issue” Lmao

[@vincenzonapoles4371]

He never mentioned anything about the self defense aspect or trial.

[@hippipdip]

Henceforth i will only refer to Sam Seder as Ryan Guzzling.

[@westingtyler1]

8:00 it is SUPER clever and smart that Destiny has started this convo with 8 minutes of saying "here's a problem we agree on, and here's the culprit we agree on." so that later when Destiny says "and here's examples of YOU doing this bad thing, too." he looks super fair.

[@theprofesionalist7927]

I honestly think that's the best way U can start any debate/convo in gud faith.

[@RohoSombrero]

Looked super fair? Seder showed very clearly Destiny’s hypocrisy. Destiny was doing EXACTLY what he accused Seder of doing- and Seder was not. He was able to easily justify everything he said and Destiny even admitted his facts were accurate. Destiny lost this one badly.

[@Falroth]

@@RohoSombrero only if you failed to follow the conversation. Seder's framing of the situation is untenable.

[@MMAGamblingTips]

@@Falroth How’s so?

[@Falroth]

@@MMAGamblingTips lying by omission regarding getting attacked unprovoked, saying things like "he killed people to defend property". See Destiny's George Floyd fentanyl example to see why this is is dishonest

[@Tooncow2]

I love when Destiny talks to Seder or Palkman types because outside of their little editorial style videos they come off truly unhinged lol

[@alazymango5511]

I’ve been listening to MR for years and you couldn’t be more wrong. Honestly, always wanting to be correct on a technicality is so fucking childish like yea Kyle did what he did in self defense but only because his stupid ass went to a racially tense protest hoping to fulfill his fantasy of killing ppl

[@maverick9708]

@@mattbailey8599 TRUE

[@barahng]

@@mattbailey8599 "I didn't watch the trial, but I feel eminently qualified to comment on it". Totally hinged, what do you mean? 😂

[@Daniel-rh7gw]

Sam Seder is daytime television, Destiny is nighttime television. They were never gonna agree.

[@danielshepard1449]

Yes the "unhinged" take of "Taking Ar-15's downtown to defend the local burger king during a BLM protest is bad"

[@scrufinator1]

Destiny gives a masterclass in exposing hypocrisy.

[@Alaric11]

The sequal to Vaushs "Just let the mob hang you", now we have Sam "Let mobs burn your town down" Seder.

[@xbabu142x]

Man Rittenhouse was a trip. I am not even US born and I thought that seemed pretty normal for the region. How do people think the US has homogeneous values and laws when the laws vary by county and cops are decided by State? Yeah Rittenhouse doing that in Los Angeles would've been weird, in Kenosha it made sense to me.

[@Gerald-of-Riviera]

@@xbabu142x Damn for someone not from the States you have a pretty general grasp on this topic which I commend you for. Solid comment

[@stephenlott6968]

Holy sh*t! I can't believe Seder agreed to this.

[@TravelsTTG]

Why?

[@S3aCa1mRa1n]

He agrees when it’s convenient for him, he doesn’t want to be on Tim’s podcast.

[@Axolotlian]

@@S3aCa1mRa1n Wasn't tim the one that backed out or am I thinking of crowder?

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

@@Axolotlian Crowder, for sure. Tim, maybe IDK

[@ogzombieblunt4626]

@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor Crowder never agreed to debate him...? You seem to be remembering a bad faith manuever by h3h3 and seder

[@TwentyPercentDash]

Destiny dominated this debate. Kyle only killed in self-defense.

[@mr.negativenancy5751]

You heard what you wanted. Sam doesn't think Kyle is a murderer. He thinks he's an asshole. Destiny thinks he's foolish. What a stupid debate tbh. Destiny pretending like he didn't say Sam would celebrate someone's getting shot.

[@TwentyPercentDash]

@@mr.negativenancy5751 - Sam repeatedly phrases his arguments against Kyle as if Kyle didn't kill in self-defense.

[@mr.negativenancy5751]

@@TwentyPercentDash For real? If you think Destiny cares about framing then you need to take a break. He totally misrepresented Sam, and it had a real impact on y'all

[@TwentyPercentDash]

@@mr.negativenancy5751 - We're not discussing whether Destiny "cares" about something. I'm saying Sam is framing the Kyle situation in a really dishonest way.

[@mr.negativenancy5751]

@@TwentyPercentDash No he's not dude. He just has a different perspective. Sam doesn't care about Rittenhouse. He probably talked more about Rittenhouse in this one debate than since the initial shooting happened. Sam doesn't cover small cases like this. I know it matters a lot to you, but no one needs to know the minutia. It's a waste time. Kyle killed two people and maimed another. It was legal. As someone who doesn't like AR-15's on the street, this is bad. I don't need details about what he was doing beyond showing up to a riot with a gun. That was idiotic of him to do. Sam cares about tort law and, as far as this case, gun control. It's not dishonest to not care.

[@starhawks1]

Seder is an absolute god at weaseling out of situations where he is obviously wrong. He's such a rat in these debates

[@philipmason5547]

It’s not very nice to rats to compare them to Sam.

[@pank3245]

Bring back August; I have taken his timestamps for granted.

[@bliss7470]

What happened to August?

[@dawnwatching6382]

@@bliss7470 the incident

[@VerGiLL1]

@@dawnwatching6382 incident ? Plz do share with the class.

[@TeraByteify]

'50 million dollars of damage' 'So you have a problem with me saying skittles' smh

[@Joshuar1971]

"We have a disagreement on whether or not we want to promote vigilantism with guns, for people who are untrained"-

[@AB-zl4nh]

This boils down to Destiny just not appreciating the difference between what is legally right & what is, for some, ethically right. What Sam is saying is perfectly normal here in the UK. We lock people up for carrying knifes in public & have very strong anti-gun laws. We don't want teens walking around with guns, that's the police's job.

[@williehellenbach8273]

@@AB-zl4nh Yea but we don't pummel each other to death over futbol games mate.

[@DavidHeffron78]

@@neglectfulsausage7689 fortunately no one is arguing that.

[@DavidHeffron78]

@@neglectfulsausage7689 lol. no.

[@Joshuar1971]

@@neglectfulsausage7689 this though experiment relies in quite a bit of reductio ad hitlerum- and is often cited as an example of a moral hazard that “actually happened”. But you needed half a dozen “and if” clauses here- making it a pretty poor equivalency. The anti-semitism of the relatively new modern state of Germany could stretch back to the blood libel pogroms a century and more earlier- not something Mr Rittenhouse could claim as a reason to travel to another town to protect someone else’s property- for your equivalency to work- if anything is more appropriate for us in this nation it would be black folks arming themselves to shoot…Rittenhouse? I guess?

[@clthornsbury4192]

Ask the guy who lost his bicep how many more protests he will attend.

[@themallenman]

Going off your comment, you seem to be against free speech. Wow.

[@clthornsbury4192]

@@themallenman do you even know who I am referring to here?

[@nunya2076]

The second he said he didn't watch the trial I knew I wouldn't be able take anything he said seriously. What a joke.

[@theaviationist.5719]

But the trial was irrelevant.. The point they were arguing was not a legal or constitutional one. It was about Kyle turning up with a gun at a highly and emotionally charged riot. Tempers were very high but he drove for 20 minutes into another town with a gun.. That was stupid. That's like a Leftist turning up with a gun at the Right Wing Capitol Hill riot (amateuristic insurrection of January 6th). That would be a recipe for disaster.. It's better to stay away from such stuff and let the police or trained security personnel deal with such.. Trying to play superhero RAMBO or CHUCK NORRIS here to save the world is stupid.. Isn't it?

[@misssummersalt]

So you like to jump to conclusions. You do you Mr. Hop.

[@madara211000]

@@misssummersalt If you admit to not watching the trial which gave multiple angles and stills from the incident; AND, with the bicep guy admitting he pointed his gun at Kyle's head prior to Kyle shooting him, then it really does show that your opinions on this don't need to be taken seriously

[@Gravioli.]

@@misssummersalt watching the trial means you actually know the facts as opposed to just what was on the media and your own feelings

[@albertbecerra]

You honestly don't even have to watch the trial, just watch the literal footage of the incident.

[@blakemccartney1068]

Sam moved his goalposts so many times, it is in the parking lot now.

[@illshot2785]

Your brain is so smooth it's a fucking egg.

[@demarcusmalarcus425]

Sam actually makes a fair point 32:46

[@dmon7056]

Thank ypu

[@GeometryDashKenaz]

lmaooo

[@andrenal3609]

bruh i was choking on my pasta

[@ts4gv]

lmao

[@adeptgopnik]

he made a really fair point when he points out Destinys absolute lack of knowledge on C.U. the fact that he thought it was appropriate to say anyone else knows nothing about the case is laughable. This proved something Ive always thought about Destiny. He likes to just say people dont know about things to essentially put himself over them on said topic. All out of laziness and not wanting to actually learn a topic himself he will put someone else down to make it seem he knows all about it. Kind of scummy.

[@fettbub92]

The point regarding Kyle using this for fame, is moot. You nailed it. He didn't seek fame, he was made famous by people like Sam. They wanted to make him a public enemy, they wanted to make him infamous. You can't spell infamous without famous children.

[@raymondjones616]

Exactly. It was media(ESPECIALLY left wing media) that made Rittenhouse famous. He was immediately declared the villain. He was already famous before the full facts of the case even came out. Sam has no basis to criticize him for embracing the right.

[@credman]

He's George Zimmerman, another right-wing loser who was looking for trouble and desperate for his Dirty Harry moment so he could feel like a real man instead of a prepubescent baby-faced virgin. It shows how immature and narcissistic Destiny's fans are that they think this is a serious debate and their side is bringing nothing but facts and logic when it's just a trivial disagreement about subjective gut feelings about Rittenhouse's character.

[@macaron3141592653]

No that's unfair. Just because the left was shitting on Kyle doesn't require him to monetize using the other extreme. He doesn't have to stay a public figure if he doesn't want, but he's reveling in attention from the worst media figures in the country and he deserves criticism for that.

[@fettbub92]

@@macaron3141592653 I don't disagree that he deserves criticism for milking this, but if the left didn't want him to be famous, they shouldnt have tried to make him infamous. Especially lying about the facts and misconstruing the case. They shouldn't be surprised he has such fame.

[@raymondjones616]

@@macaron3141592653 No it doesn't "require" him to embrace the right. But it does put him on that path. I mean, 1 whole party says he is evil Nazi scum and tells their voters this for over a year, while the other side says he is not...most teenagers in his position would do exactly the same.

[@wil404]

Why is it literally perfectly reasonable for everyone else to make money off of the Kyle Rittenhouse story, but as soon as he does he's a total scumbag, when he probably doesn't have many other opportunities to make a living now.

[@eyeam9305]

I know when seder said that he was being incredibly hypocritical

[@cwingnam]

Also, it is his right to speak out and defend himself from media misinformation and should be encouraged by any sane person. Nobody want to be the next kyle rittenhouse, being ruined and villainise by the media.

[@mekullag]

Do have an issue with people making money off the OJ case? Documentaries, podcasts, news articles etc.? I mostly think it‘s fine. But when I heard that OJ himself tried to get rich off the case by writing this “(if) I did it“ book, yeah I got pissed at that (he failed though, money went elsewhere). So to me it feels very natural to draw the line at “the killer“. Of course he was also a victim that night, but considering his own fault he should not be doing anything but keeping his head down and ask to be forgotten. He‘s a dumb kid who got himself into deep shit and had to kill people to get back out. The right celebrating him as some kind of hero for that is disgusting and if he willingly participates in it for financial benefit then so is he. We don‘t know if he does or doesn‘t have many other opportunities, but evidently half the country has decided to idolize him for being dumb, impressionable and armed, so there‘s gotta be a lot of conservative store owners who‘d still be willing to hire him right now.

[@dustinschimmel9152]

Kyle's little victory parade he's been on is cringe but he deserves the money he's has/going to receive.

[@kdoe85]

All the media appearances iv seen are just Kyle defending his character after being slandered in the media by dishonest people (like Sam). I dont think hes benifiting much financially for going on Tucker, or Charlie Kirks show.

[@DSPHistoricalSociety]

Yeah Sam, that's _literally_ what the Senate was created for- to keep that branch equal among small & large states.

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

That doesn't necessarily mean that the party that's constantly getting screwed over by it should just take it. Nor does it mean that it's necessarily any less of an undemocratic system.

[@DSPHistoricalSociety]

@@mielipuolisiili7240 damn democratically elected undemocratic representatives

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

@@DSPHistoricalSociety That's a weird reading of what I said. If you can't see why someone could ever consider it to be undemocratic when some people's votes matter more than others', I don't know what to tell you.

[@DSPHistoricalSociety]

@@mielipuolisiili7240 that's why we have a senate and a house

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

@@DSPHistoricalSociety Mind explaining how the existence of house and senate makes it any better?

[@SomeGuy-fh5ds]

🥛GUZZLERS UNITED 🥛

[@cubsfan2929]

Holy hell sam is so dishonest...

[@mr.mclibtard5015]

But muh skittles

[@achabotte]

"HE WAS ROAMING THE STREETS LIKE SOME KIND OF GUARDIAN ANGEL!?!?!" Like a fucking American Citizen? Offering first aid and extinguishing (Potentially) dangerous fires?

[@TierDvik]

Cant do that according to Sam Seder.... unless you are non-white which he refused to answer and instead played word games

[@danielshepard1449]

Yeah like an American citizen who purposely put himself in a situation so he could shoot someone

[@xbabu142x]

Man Rittenhouse was a trip. I am not even US born and I thought that seemed pretty normal for the region. How do people think the US has homogeneous values and laws when the laws vary by county and cops are decided by State? Yeah Rittenhouse doing that in Los Angeles would've been weird, in Kenosha it made sense to me.

[@codbeast914]

I'd argue it was dangerous or at least one of the fires was being actively pushed towards a has station . take that how you will but I wouldn't like a gas station to blowup anywhere near me

[@TierDvik]

@@xbabu142x Its not even weird in Los Angeles. There is something called the Rootop Koreans. During the Rodney King riots Koreans gathered armed friend and family to protect their community from being destroyed, some of them came from other areas. The leftists then were and still will ignore the Rootop Koreans... but some white kid do the same thing... "NAZI!"

[@ThePigeStrangler]

“Vigilante justice is never okay, but him having the gun is enough reason for those people to understandable attack him to try and remove the gun from him!”

[@danielshepard1449]

No one said that, nice try though. It must be nice to make up strawmen and put them in quotes.

[@elihfisher1059]

@@danielshepard1449 *doesn’t explain why it’s a strawman*

[@danielshepard1449]

@@elihfisher1059 Buddy....it's a strawman because nowhere in this conversation did Sam Seder claim that.

[@XSpamDragonX]

@@dresk2380 none of them were ever charged... not the felons illegally carrying firearm

[@elihfisher1059]

@@dresk2380 Sam Seder is not committing to any hard positions on this case, except for the villain status of Kyle here. The point is, Sam was severely downplaying the existence of an altercation in which self defense is unarguable. Sam repeatedly mentioned that Kyle was “brandishing” his firearm- the implication being that Kyle was the one taking escalatory measures. Do you see how that downplays the warning shots and legitimate perceived threat for his life posed by rossenbaum and the others?

[@Counterpoints]

Awwwww man, I can’t even watch it now because I felt my blood pressure spike in the opening. It’s gonna be goooood

[@oscarosborn121]

it should spike!

[@deadteddybears_7302]

Same bro, same

[@kidathlete]

Who'd make your blood pressure spike more in a debate Sam or Tale of Twin Rabbits?

[@thedarkknight221]

It's not even that crazy. Pretty tame, actually.

[@deadteddybears_7302]

@@kidathlete that rabbits guys was something else… 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@metalcadude2]

"I'm not saying they should leave, I'm saying that no one should go and help them and just let their town burn!"

[@nicholaswatson2725]

38:40 Sam WANTS Kyle to be broke and starving. There is no forgiveness because Kyle broke this invisible moral line of Sam's that he created yesterday. It is the same shit with Keffles

[@ronmexico7256]

Yes there’s only 2 options going on TV or starving. I couldnt care less about what Kyle does but this narrative is crazy

[@TheKomentor]

By Sam's logic it is disgusting that George Floyd's family filed lawsuits and accepted millions of dollars in compensation for his death. They should never have monetised such a tragic event.

[@ronmexico7256]

@@TheKomentor I don’t agree with Sams take but what you’re saying is pretty moronic

[@dfmrcv862]

"John Doyle is a white nationalist". ...Sam Seder do your FREAKING research! John Doyle is far right. Arguably a literal monarchist as of late. But I've never heard John argue for white nationalism, just American nationalism. Even in his dumb "MLK was secretly a communist" video he never goes after the civil rights movement because of race, despite all the egregious errors in that video (and do NOT get me started on Doyle's Ukraine video). But hey, what can you expect of a guy who admits he doesn't do research on what he opines on?

[@TheButterAnvil]

There's plenty of reason to hate john Doyle without lying lol

[@dfmrcv862]

@@TheButterAnvil Exactly. Used to like his earlier stuff, but recently he's been mirroring Nick Fuentes a bit too much... I don't like his implication that the US needs to get rid of the Constitution or that we're an "evil empire".

[@daddyfuse50]

Monarchy is the only worthwhile form of governance for the current populace.

[@dfmrcv862]

@@daddyfuse50 we didn't beat Britain twice to have a freaking Monarchy again, *JOSH.*

[@TheButterAnvil]

@@daddyfuse50 k

[@shrisiva4016]

What is Sam's problem with Kyle? He says he didn't watch the trial, why is he talking so passionately wrong about someone he hasn't researched properly? He's just spreading misinformation

[@danielshepard1449]

He pretty clearly explained why Kyle is an asshole for his role in causing and monetizing the situation. That has nothing to do with the trial.

[@theprofesionalist7927]

@@danielshepard1449 And constantly talking shit about him being an asshole and saying that the results of the trial show the problems in our system on your show also doesn't have anything to do with the trial? Face it dude, if this kid rightfully claiming that has life has been ruined by lefty media is "grifting" than the bigger grifters are all of these people complaining about the verdict of a trial they didn't watch without even doing an ounce of research about self-defense laws.

[@chronographer]

@@danielshepard1449 'Yeah, I think more women who wear short skirts should own up to their role in being raped, and then monetizing the situation with the metoo movement? Such assholes.' - Is exactly how Seeder and you sound to anyone who saw even 15 seconds of the trial.

[@lennysmileyface]

@@danielshepard1449 That's retarded though. You wouldn't say a black person can't "monetize" their experience with racism to raise awareness.

[@nickydee569]

@@danielshepard1449 Who cares. Might as well call him a poop nose too

[@Jeremy-th5pt]

If the races were reversed, Sam would be defending Kyle. Simple as that.

[@Flashyfinancier]

Agreed 💯

[@Flashyfinancier]

Not just Sam. All leftists

[@barrylorand5349]

The races reversed? Do you mean the roles reversed? The Kyle is white , the people who were shot were white .

[@The2012Aceman]

Rich Lefties be like “Defending property? Don’t you have insurance? They should replace everything for you.”

[@danielshepard1449]

I love how you think it's the rich people who are AGAINST shooting people in defense of property. You honestly have it so backwards it's hilarious.

[@barahng]

@@danielshepard1449 He specified rich *lefties.* You know, Hollywood types who oppose gun ownership and self defense, while living in gated communities and protected by private security.

[@bobsmith4226]

@@danielshepard1449 Yes it's also entitled poor people who think their anger over certain issues is justification enough for them to go about destroying the property and livelihoods of others as they "peacefully protest".

[@pierredelecto7069]

@@danielshepard1449 it literally is the mega corporations who have the policy of allowing shoplifting and theft because insurance just covers it. It's small family businesses that can't afford this. Target doesn't care if people steal sneakers or loot the store.

[@x_12unknown10]

@@bobsmith4226 I think any poor person cannot be entitled

[@MandyRosko]

This is enough Sam for me, holy shit. I always wondered why people hated this guy. Like Destiny is talking to a dumb rock, handholding him through all the points, but it always goes back to "We don't know why he was there." Yes we do, his dad lived there, his friends, and his job. "He killed people!" Who were attacking him with deadly force, yes. "He's an asshole!" Well, why should he play nice with your team when you demonize him? Like, how many times Can Destiny spoon feed things to you? And there are millions of self righteous, pompous pricks like this out there. Unreal

[@traviswall1982]

The BEST way to win a debate against Sam Seder is to say the name "Jimmy Dore" and Sam will go off on a tangent for the next 40 minutes.

[@danielshepard1449]

Are you a Dorecel? You realize Destiny hates Jimmy Dore just as much if not more than Seder?

[@itsyaboydanno7143]

Holy shit I just searched "Sam Seder Jimmy Dore" and damn, Sam is obsessed!

[@famalam943]

@@f4rt989 not on the way Sam has the hatred of Dore.

[@francisxavier8374]

he is seder's vaush

[@traviswall1982]

@@danielshepard1449 all 3 have MAJOR biases, but I love to get a range of views from people I may like theoretically, but with a grain of salt.

[@ronaldc9071]

He wasn't on trial for vigilantism or was he suppose to be there or not. He was on trial for murder and the jury said no murder was committed cause it was self defense. It's literally that's simple

[@xiomanaxoxoxo3212]

He should have been on trial for vigilantism . It’s why he went there I’m sure of it .

[@HowardxDuck]

I love that Sam Seder coined the term “Jizzling”

[@wellthissucks112]

this made me laugh out loud.

[@christxervixian8538]

@@wellthissucks112 You could tell he was looking for the word "guzzling" (like used 2-3 mins before) but he couldnt find it

[@collinblatchford]

When Sam isn't on his own show with backup laughs it hits different.

[@Rem_NL]

I didn't fully understand why Crowder didn't want him on his show, but I get a clearer picture now. Ceder is furious that Kyle is getting more traction than him. That is his full motivation.

[@artexjay]

@@Rem_NL Seder is the definition of low-brow grifter. He cannot for the life of him debate in good faith.

[@blakeb9964]

Sam owns everyone, no matter where. Deal with it.

[@blakeb9964]

​@@artexjayare.yoy mad he owned your idol Tim pool? 😂

[@lilben4184]

​@@blakeb9964 ez ratio 🤗

[@TheAbsoluteSir]

The Rittenhouse conversation really made Sam look unfathomably dishonest. His pretentiousness, dishonest framing, strawman arguments, and ego is why I quit watching him years ago. Michael Brooks was the only thing good about his show, and I'll go as far as to say that Michael Brooks was one of the only honest socialists I've ever listened to.

[@drinkswatere]

@Silent Man he doesn’t need to make one. That’s why we’re watching someone make them. Watch this and destiny’s other video commenting over sams initial take.

[@Hustler_state]

Two men debating and talking about subjects openly is how things can get accomplished and society has worked for a very long time. And without it, we wouldn't be in great condition.

[@ericp166]

Destiny needs to drop this “Kyle is only far right because the left pushed him there” bullshit. It just makes him sound stubborn to the point of delusional.

[@TheCrappyRobot]

Destiny literally said Kyle COULD be a conservative...But it was that lefty's need to stop acting shocked when Kyle runs to the right... Because the LEFT want him fucking dead or behind bars...It's not rocket science

[@shokosugi2346]

@C K "Far right" can just as accurately describe cultural inclinations/customs and the views that come with them - even if they're attached to pseudo political nonsense like "culture war" artifacts, and don't have any specific policy positions attached to them. I don't need to hear a right winger sitting at the bar and complaining about black people share their views on regulation or taxation to know where they fall on the political spectrum. When your first display of political activism is to go police a BLM protest with an AR-15, your politics are pretty clear. Maybe you think someone making that connection is going off half-cocked, but it happens to be correct in this case, so maybe this isn't the best place to try to make the point you're trying to make. Also, wasn't he caught on camera a few months earlier punching a girl while wearing American flag Crocs? Yeah, this kid was a total leftie.

[@pipinghotarbys3079]

Now I finally understand why Crowder peaced out on him during the Ethan Klein fiasco. Sam has a black belt in deflecting and dishonesty

[@mikepilkington2156]

Lmao, i commented this too. Now we know why Crowder was like "fk that guy!" 🤣

[@ryanhall5360]

Everyone clowned on Crowder when it happened, but those who knew, *knew*

[@danielshepard1449]

Uh oh the Crowder/Destiny fanbase is getting more crossover.

[@killzone866]

@@ryanhall5360 that crowder will only debate children?

[@mikepilkington2156]

@@danielshepard1449 I'm mostly just a Rittenhouse/Ar15 fan! And if he protected a Burger King I'd give him a medal of honor! 😎

[@wretchedrabbit]

"I guess he's paralyzed" meaning he has been pushing the lie that Jacob Blake got killed so much and it became so natural that even after learning he was only paralyzed he still has to consciously think about it to not say he got killed... That is fucking sad

[@pepesilvia3827]

........what?

[@wretchedrabbit]

@@pepesilvia3827 what are you confused about?

[@maxvoloshin_nefariousaquarius]

He really wants to believe that Blake was killed and that Rittenhouse was in the area to commit cold blooded murder.

[@Invertedworldx]

As I rabbit hole my way more and more of destiny's content and truly like him more each day while on the opposite side of political views. I can't help but enjoy his intelligence and thoughtful perspectives. This debate literally got handed on a platter when destiny brought up the L.A riots and how the asians protected their property that is the ultimate take away from the red herring argument and ignorance of well "Kyle" could have just stayed home while K burned down. 24:12

[@michaelrandall7667]

I always say when it comes to objective matters like Rittenhouse he is great. He does his research and sticks to the facts. When it comes to anything subjective, usually political, he's a fool. He's the equivalent of a random Twitter person. It's odd that he's the same person sometimes.

[@VanRants]

"Blake's killing" The first thing out of this guy's mouth was a lie.

[@htown11465]

"Blake's killing" wasn't the first thing out of his mouth. Your post is literally a lie....

[@VanRants]

@@htown11465 incorrect

[@jrisbak]

Haha I like how Sam immediately turns Destiny’s call of them riots and says protests

[@Thethinker6141]

Destiny took it easy on Sam Destiny could have torn him to pieces

[@supahdupah207]

24:15 you know how black people can protect themselves from cops? Don't go outside. Come on bruh, it sounds stupid doesn't it?

[@dfmrcv862]

Dude... Destiny has the patience of a saint with this guy.

[@kambion]

this guy is right.

[@tb8654]

@@kambion Seder is right? About what? He claimed that Rittenhouse shot someone to defend property, that's such a sh*t news network level of framing an event

[@marcusreq22]

@@kambion except he's not.

[@thedarkknight221]

How so? There was nothing really to debate here. It was just two people highlighting different aspects and framing, and then arguing that the other person's framing wasn't the most productive. There were no gotchas or anything. I can see value to both sides easily.

[@dfmrcv862]

@@thedarkknight221 Seder basically doesn't want to admit he screwed up on Rittenhouse while admitting he does no research on the topic.

[@YoutubeStyleChannel]

First time I've seen Sam debating, thought he was good at this. Really showed his bias when he tried to label someone as a republican if they live in a rural area and own a gun.

[@danielshepard1449]

Sorry your triggered by the fact that rural gun owners (especially wanna be cops who post things like "all lives matter" AKA Kyle) are overwhelmingly republican.

[@mr.negativenancy5751]

Uh rural, owns gun, AND polices BLM riots with an AR-15. That last one is pretty key in the formula.

[@TheBrownNote420]

@@mr.negativenancy5751it's rough out their being a simple gamer

[@mr.negativenancy5751]

@@TheBrownNote420 it's true man. I'm about to close youtube and do some gaming. I'm feeling Bannerlord or Dying Light 2. Kinda strategized my head off lately.

[@kevinholmes1048]

@@notadam7016 I wouldn't say overwhelmingly. I live in one of those communities and it's a little more complicated than that. To a large degree the characterization is a liberal media construction for propaganda. It helps though to define properly what two people consider rural before starting any conversation. The suburbs are very neo-liberal and right wing authoritarian. So if you include the suburbs as rural then yes rural areas are majority, though often not overwhelmingly republican. If you mean rural as in corn fields, then they are far more religious conservative and they are more locally and community minded. So on their own they tend to be republican, but they are more libertarian and just culturally isolated. They don't tend to be neo-liberal and are definitely not authoritarian. Even their religious foundations tend to be more accepting in practice, even if they can be a bit fire and brimstone. So if you consider rural as agricultural than it's a bit republican leaning, but less so in the way that's hostile to democracy and the people in it and it's less an identity. In both cases they are not usually overwhelmingly republican in the sense that 80% of people identify as such, just that the majority of areas are consistently so. You'll still have a great diversity of what that means and how exactly they identify, and even if an area votes 60% republican that means 40% don't despite living surrounded by a contrary hegemonic ideology. It's a big mistake to right off "rural areas" because of an overblown stereotype. Especially because the problem comes when the two different types, suburban and rural, get lumped together. That's what the democrats have done to take advantage of the backwater racist hick stereotype and that's why were fucked. The rural communities don't have the votes or money to affect any power at all in this country. By pretending they are the problem it just gives Democrats defenseless people to shit on and scapegoat as the problem. So they align with the suburban conservatives. Suburban conservatives are a far greater number of people, especially the way america is laid out. That's where the newer religious fascist and neo-nazi types are coming from. They're the ones with the money and votes. And they have no culture of community and libertarianism except when it comes to avoiding taxes. It's the suburbs that sit at lunch with democratic liberals and agree to fuck the poor and working class. Democrats made up the voting block that is defeating them by relying on the stereotype of "rural voters" and ignoring their fascist suburban neighbors. There is no overwhelming conservative base in rural areas, just a terrible overlap of interest as truly rural communities get sidelined and attacked by urban liberals. So a tight circle of urban blue is surrounded by a sea of red, in spite of the fact that red sea has very different values within it and a significant minority (or even majority) of would be democratic voters and non-voters who just don't have a reason to vote democrat.

[@kevinclause4p55p5]

if it's relevant that Kyle consumed John Doyle content, then the criminal history of Kyle's attackers is also relevant.

[@theaviationist.5719]

So what would you say if a Leftist turned up at a Right wing riot like that at the Capitol? Remember that January the 6th amateuristic insurrection by your fellow Right Wingers? If a Leftist turned up with a gun at that capitol riot and got shot by the lunatic rioters or he shot a right wing rioter I would have absolutely condemning that Leftist for being an idiot in turning up with a gun at a highly charged Right wing riot at the capitol..

[@pheebs818]

People to this day still think that Rittenhouse killed a black man.

[@Hi-Scores]

Thats not even relevant to anything that happened with his case

[@tpav5563]

Destiny won this debate when intellectually forced Sam to talk about buckets of cuume. LOL

[@whitejosh444]

He doesn't find watching criminal trials helps form his opinion? WTF.. he gets his information only on what people send him so you're saying you live in an echo chamber ?

[@mikegriego3671]

Or, maybe he has seen clips of the trial but is a complete dishonest hack and a huge weasel.

[@whitejosh444]

@@mikegriego3671 or that. 😂

[@FirstLast-dh8ks]

eyes wide shut

[@mikewarner3597]

God help me never become someone who sticks to positions for emotional reasons in the face of fair arguments against them like Sam is doing here.

[@Battlefox64_RL]

17:14 ^^^^^^ When he said he went there patrolling the streets I almost exited the video. What an emotionally charged statement. He absolutely knows that Rittenhouse didn't go there _patrolling._ Is the first I've heard of sam sedar and I'm glad, because I won't be putting myself through that torture willingly.

[@matthewpiggott3468]

@@Battlefox64_RL he was there patrolling lol. He thought he was law enforcement.

[@pffpffovich2398]

@@matthewpiggott3468 Aaaand here we got another one who didn't watch the trial nor any video evidence from that day

[@matthewpiggott3468]

@@pffpffovich2398 I dont see how that matters, I cant just save time and read about it?

[@pffpffovich2398]

@@matthewpiggott3468 there are a bunch of records even on KZbin for everyone to see but you just refuse to watch it and chose to parrot msnbc.