Destiny Gets Grilled On AI Consciousness & Jordan Peterson Debate Fumble

Last night on Destiny
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[@LastNightDestiny]

FULL PODCAST AND MORE! ►www.patreon.com/anythingelse

[@gregorymurphy6115]

listening to you two talk to someone who's legitimately polite and informative is making me so frustrated that I want to die

[@iLuvMisaell]

@@gregorymurphy6115 i couldn’t even finish the video

[@iLuvMisaell]

i feel bad for that nuclear power dude who had to tolerate those two

[@faithlesszealot5032]

Who was that guy i wanna look him up

[@daveisme9227]

​@@faithlesszealot5032 His name is Obamna Just kidding, I wanna know too so im leaving a reply here for when someone actually knows.

[@faithlesszealot5032]

@@daveisme9227 That joke might get you sent to dark dogwarts be careful

[@daveisme9227]

@@faithlesszealot5032 I love fucking dogs (⁠ ⁠˘⁠ ⁠³⁠˘⁠)⁠♥

[@danielsurvivor1372]

​@faithlesszealot5032 Is that where Hairy Pothead learned winbombium destinosa?

[@sachdenuwara2640]

The viewer call-ins are a really good addition, but holy shit let the fucking callers talk without interrupting them. The amount of times they asked the same question to the nuclear guy and then proceeded to interrupt him before he could get a single sentence out was insane. It make it feel like Destiny and Dan think their banter is more interesting than anything anybody else has to say. It ended up coming across as really rude more than anything else imo

[@faithlesszealot5032]

I wanna know who that nuclear guy is I want to talk to him and pick his brain honestly

[@user-dq3xw9cv3e]

What happened to notsoerudite being the co host??

[@drained_yayo]

@@user-dq3xw9cv3e thats the bridges podcast

[@adrian-dragosbalaban6401]

​@@user-dq3xw9cv3e That's the Bridges podcast if I'm not wrong

[@user-dq3xw9cv3e]

@@adrian-dragosbalaban6401 oh there's two podcasts?! I loved her but can't stand dan. He's horrible.

[@jenispizz2556]

The number of times Dan asked the nuclear guy why nuclear power is so expensive, only to SCREAM OVER HIM or to have Destiny say some troll shit had me PULLING MY HAIR OUT.

[@user-dq3xw9cv3e]

Yeah ik Destiny loves to hire soy men but I wish he'd fire this one

[@iLuvMisaell]

@@user-dq3xw9cv3e it’s BOTH OF THEM

[@user-dq3xw9cv3e]

@@iLuvMisaell I love Destiny. Dan can go tho

[@jenispizz2556]

@@user-dq3xw9cv3e Remember this energy you're bringing now, because you'll COMPLETELY flip your perspective on Dan as soon as you realize how right he always is.

[@user-dq3xw9cv3e]

@@jenispizz2556 what a delusional comment..

[@azure_azure]

Props to the nuclear guy for trying to have an interesting and informed conversation about an important topic. Doing real political action as well, good stuff.

[@Arrvss.]

Holy crap let the guests talk?

[@nicholascage3086]

please... im begging you.... let the fucking callers talk. especially when its actually interesting

[@seanmurphy2365]

Debate Ben Shapiro on the supreme Court decision

[@RubenO.-tz5vv]

Ben would never

[@jacobisweird280]

🤡 he's literally debated Ben before... Stop making sh*t up ​@@RubenO.-tz5vv

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

He would sacrifice his cat for that opportunity.

[@RubenO.-tz5vv]

@@haruhirogrimgar6047 Ben would sacrifice Israel to cancel the debate LOL

[@CelestialDesign]

​​@@RubenO.-tz5vv idk who you think Ben is. Hate or love the guy, he will debate anyone, he also isnt as pro trump as you probably think, hes in the "vote for the lesser of two evils" camp. I think the only actual Trump "supporters" in DW are Klavan and Walsh... everyone else was desperate for someone else to win the primaries.

[@whoknows5093]

Ima need y’all to focus on the callers more, I know Stephen or maybe even Dan has heard these arguments before but them literally ignoring callers just to have some shity British humor ass back and forth is very rude and overdone.

[@wag1_2mhaters]

They think it's so witty and quirky

[@wakaryoku]

I would agree I would like to see them engage with them more, but at the same time their humor is what makes the podcast do so well lol

[@iLuvMisaell]

i agree so much. the snarky banter has been an issue since day one

[@911jumper911ttt329]

Yeah I hate how friends talk to each other how they enjoy on their own show they gone and done.

[@user-dq3xw9cv3e]

Yeah I hate their tired banter but it's mostly bc I hate dan

[@clouddistrictgang24]

Human: wait AI is just linear algebra Linear algebra: always has been.

[@xxee1xx]

how is it just linear algebra

[@anonymousjohnson8051]

Linear algebra, calculus, and statistics pretty much covers the basics of machine learning, with more advanced theories used for coming up with better models, better understanding the behavior of current models, and better fine-tuning hyperparamaters. Not to mention what’s used for other kinds of AI outside the machine learning domain.

[@blaiseduncan1160]

@@xxee1xxon a basic level machine learning is just passing in a vector, doing a bunch of transformations on it, and getting a vector out.

[@ReddFoxx1562]

​@blaiseduncan1160 isn't that essentially how life began? Organisms reacting to stimulus (information) and over time becoming more capable and intricate?

[@TVDaJa]

You could say something similar about our brains. Wait It‘s just neural activations? You get the idea

[@Xx3SPAZxX]

STOP INTERRUPTING YOUR CALLERS SO MUCH!

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

13:45 to skip the A.I. guy.

[@forwatchingstuff]

Godsend

[@majinvegeta420]

1:00:35 to skip it all

[@RayTheomo]

You deserve a beer.😂

[@Jobe-13]

You guys need way more viewer call-in’s during Anything Else? episodes. They’d probably add an additional hour or two to each episode but I think it would be worth it for the show. And it would be entertaining.

[@limear]

they would just gate it behind patreon

[@Arrvss.]

What do you mean? they barely let them talk?

[@majinvegeta420]

@@Arrvss. classic dan...

[@darthInsanius]

31:08 for the Jordan Peterson stuff.

[@user-uo4dv9ig8q]

I really hope Destiny brings on the nuclear guy or someone as informative on the topic to his stream. I love the back & forth in AE, but Dan doesn’t do well in political conversations, unless it’s him steering the topic.

[@Creslin321]

I’m going to come out with a bold take here and say that maybe all of the human rationality and capacity to solve problems that we tend to hold up as uniquely human abilities, has nothing to do with consciousness. I don’t see why you couldn’t have an AI system that can solve just about any complex problem that a human could, but is still not conscious. You don’t NEED to be conscious to sequence the human genome or hold a conversation with a person. So I don’t see why an AI would necessarily be conscious just because it can perform at the “top” of what we consider to be human rationality and problem solving.

[@anubis7457]

I think people are confusing "consciousness" with "living being." Plants are alive. They are not sentient. AI can be conscious. They are not alive. Exceptional beings exist. A platypus can lay eggs despite being a mammal. By the aforementioned logic, a platypus doesn't exist because it goes against conventional wisdom. However, an AI's consciousness would not be like a human's consciousness, though we can argue that a human's consciousness is not like the consciousness of any other animal as well.

[@Metathronos]

it could also be that consciousness is an inevitable side effect of complex information processing. But if it is, i don't think AI is there yet at all.

[@yin3229]

@@Metathronos Yeah thats how I see it, Consciousness came about through so many different processes intersecting in our brain's and modern "AI" doesn't even come close to being able to replicate it in a similar way.

[@Creslin321]

@@Metathronos I feel like this might be at the heart of our misunderstanding of consciousness. We tend to associate consciousness heavily with intelligence. We are intelligent, we are conscious. A rock is not intelligent, nor is a tree, probably not conscious. However, when you think about it, consciousness is not REQUIRED for intelligence. Even today, we have machines that exhibit “intelligence” far beyond what we may have thought possible 40 years ago. Computers can defeat the best chess masters in the world, and now with ML, they are starting to gain a more generalized intelligence. But the more intelligence that machines acquire, the more we realize that, that intelligence is definitely not consciousness. And I think this trend will continue. Main reason being that consciousness isn’t required to do any analytical work that humans do. And AI is basically proving that to us. You don’t need to have internal experiences to be the best chess player in the world, or to discover gravity. An unconscious machine is fully capable of performing these tasks. So why would we think that making a sufficiently complex information system would create consciousness when it’s wholly unnecessary for that system to function? I think we have this backwards. Consciousness is not subordinate to complex information systems. Complex information systems are subordinate to consciousness. Meaning complex information systems only exist in so far as a conscious being either inhabits one, or recognizes one. As such, consciousness is more fundamental than information. I think that consciousness is some kind of fundamental element of our universe. I don’t know exactly how it “coalesces” into a unitary form like a human, but I think it essentially exists has a more fundamental element than anything else. Which I suppose would make me an idealist.

[@Metathronos]

@@Creslin321 There's a trap in this. we can't know when something is conscious. I don't know if anyone else is. I just assume they are. There is no definitive test for consciousness and I think given a sufficiently advanced AI, real consciousness and simulated consciousness would be virtually indistinguishable. IS a dumb person conscious? How about a dog? we can't know, we just assume.

[@MrToastyTank]

The music added to the start with a short recap is such a nice touch I'v always loved that

[@bongieger7871]

Loved the sound guys 👍

[@aj00]

BRO quit asking him how much it costs LET HIM ANSWER

[@poppygloria3819]

Love this podcast!

[@johnniiee146]

A unilateral restriction on AI tech development is the instituting state simply asking to get brutalized. This isn't even a question.

[@xxee1xx]

its impossible to restrict it anyways, fuck em

[@TimeattackGD]

why is it so hard for people to understand that there could be a robot that could mimic every single aspect of humanity and still not be conscious?

[@luckyducky5994]

Well I mean at that point it’s no more or less conscious then any other human being.

[@anubis7457]

How can you distinguish it then? We can't even identify where consciousness is, in humanity. Some even argue that some people are or aren't conscious, like is a SEVERELY mentally handicapped person meaningfully conscious? Are they more conscious than a dog? If so, how can we know? If not, why is the dog's life worth less than the human's?

[@TimeattackGD]

@@anubis7457 does a robotic ant that acts the exact same way that an ant does have the same level of consciousness that an ant has? if you now take that robot and change its appearance and movement/sound, WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE, so that it mimics a human. does that suddenly upgrade its coniscousness to human level? obviously not, its a simple "a skeleton with human flesh taped on doesnt make a human" idea like idk how one does not understand this unbelievably simple concept. its not about whether we could distinguish it, if anything the point im making is that we couldnt. so we would have to make a choice as to how we treat these things that we have zero idea of whether theyre conscious or not but thats a completely different topic. my point isnt that robots couldnt be conscious. my point is that for some reason, the idea of creating robots that act like human but arent conscious is inconceivable to some, when its so obviously a possiblity.

[@easytiger6570]

You're all wrong *I* am the only conscious being

[@911jumper911ttt329]

​@easytiger6570 I am here, and I am, so am I.

[@lancemagmer9701]

There's pump storage where water gets pumped up when electricity is cheap and released through a turb8ne when its expensive

[@aditya5162]

just wear headphones this is not uncharted territory

[@aditya5162]

or earphones if u wanna wear a hat

[@Johnbrown-politics..]

Why ask destiny about A.I when it’s obvious he doesn’t know shit about it?

[@Wate]

How else am I supposed to know what to think about ai?

[@Johnbrown-politics..]

@@Wate research

[@Johnbrown-politics..]

@@Wate it’s actually quite exciting

[@Wate]

@@Johnbrown-politics.. Sorry g, I was joking. I agree with you!

[@Johnbrown-politics..]

@@Wate Dude it’s so hard to tell sarcasm nowadays.

[@blobbb]

thank you destiny. AI is some of the most boring shit. Impressive, but boring. People love attributing consciousness to something that _feels_ like it can respond to you.

[@Mentesestoicas_]

Destiny's patience before conversations or debates is smaller than a child's in front of a Disney gate.

[@ErcoleBellucci]

5:55 destiny reaction to dan's explaining memes on internet

[@Mishu31]

Why is Dan so damn annoying? He's like a child.

[@ChaseFace]

He severely overestimates his charm. He’s extremely smug and coy because he’s been friends with Steven for years. It’s very unearned.

[@TevelDrinkwater]

Dan is 100% correct on Matchbox vs. Hot Wheels though. The difference was that Matchbox focused on actual cars, whereas Hot Wheels originally focused on "crazy" or "weird" cars. Matchbox was originally more expensive as I recall, but dropped price and quality to compete with Hot Wheels. Matchbox started in the UK in the 50's, and Hot Wheels in the US in the late 60's. Of course kids want to play with the Undertaker's coffin on wheels as a car instead of a BMW or something. Then Hot Wheels won and bought out Matchbox. I think the lines are more discrete now, since Matchbox is all regular cars and Hot Wheels are all fantasy cars now. Same price, same quality. But even back in the day they were indistinguishable on materials and performance.

[@Cuptial-ev9tb]

39:44 I’m so glad I knew this one! It’s not only regulation that drives the cost of nuclear through the roof, but also the interest on those loans.

[@cunningham.s_law]

this is becoming one of my favorite podcasts

[@wag1_2mhaters]

me when i lie:

[@3magikarpinamansuit281]

Destiny always so aggressive on this. Maybe it's the co-hosts attitude.

[@anubis7457]

Just gonna say "AI isn't sentient because it doesn't have an internal monologue" is not a great argument because there are people that exist who don't have an internal monologue. Unless you want to argue they're philosophical zombies, which would be hilarious to do to their face.

[@RayTheomo]

It was literally a story that like 50% of people dont have an internal monoloue. So not far off actually.

[@sghost128]

Dan is saying that if you have a giant river you can build a damn at some point in the river, then a few miles down stream you can build another damn, then another few miles down stream you can build another damn. Theoretically that can work, but also RIP fish. Also how is the reason why nuclear plants are more expensive not obvious. The regulations aside, you need a lot less equipment and tech to monitor how a gas plant runs versus to monitor if you're about to cause a nuclear explosion in a city...

[@andrewadams530]

Why is there an echo? Because Dan refuses to wear headphones? It's literally unwatchable

[@yeahdontknow57]

I'm never signing up for the patreon. You guys definitely make enough from this badass podcast. Just get some sponsors and put the whole damn awesome thing up. Maybe I'm just retarded

[@altart8102]

dang, I was liking the AI/consciousness convo. But I guess it be like that.

[@cjpack]

Say it with me folks: AI is a subset of machine learning and doesn't require consciousness or to be an AGI to be considered AI. Saying current AI is if then statements is tautologically true by its classification.

[@MsExmen]

Nice audio.

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensenson]

I don’t care if it’s conscious. We should be talking about how good they are at achieving goals and how deceptive they’re willing to be in achieving them

[@troyl44]

5:56 all intelligence is "if this than that"

[@niallcameron6433]

Camera setup is great but the audio is trash.

[@brianwelch2653]

you didn't ask but, put the monitor under or above the camera so you aren't turning away from the camera to talk to or read things from the monitor. then comp the monitor between the two of you so the audience can see the screen and your face.

[@Zgembo121]

I went to mcduffy accademy? Is that provided by disney 😂

[@CacophonySZ]

This would have been so much better if you 2 had stopped edging each other and actually asked the caller questions about nuclear power for a whole 5 minutes.

[@trapsarentgaymcgee5202]

[@iamcino]

release the destiny vs jordan peele debate

[@AHappyWatermelon]

The audio feedback here makes this mostly unwatchable for me. Shame my brain can't handle it.

[@cydrezz]

same

[@Onmyknees4christ]

It’s literally because Dan won’t wear headphones because he won’t take off his ugly hat

[@Hal-ll7zo]

​@@Onmyknees4christ honestly who told him that the hat looks good?

[@TheBear710]

@@Hal-ll7zoI like it :( he looks like the rich Australian guy Saxton Hale from tf2

[@user-dq3xw9cv3e]

Audio feedback is a wild way to misspell dan but okay

[@No_OneV]

Nuclear discussion was 🔥🔥 xD

[@TheWiggum123]

There was an interesting topic I found in Fredrick Hayek’s work on psychology (very unknown) and he mentioned that a brain cannot fully comprehend itself because the size needed to keep the knowledge works out being greater then the object itself. Basically it creates general rules. Which has made me think about consciousness as way of determining something based on unknowns. It kind of would imply in my thinking of consciousness that you need to design the opposite of a computer and overlay the non computer program with a computer based program. In terms of if it is bad the creation itself would be unpredictable which humans don’t like, and that’s why we can’t place a moral value on this technology. Which makes sense because we also doubt if other humans are moral. It would need to be like an iterative non program. Kind of like how fractals can turn infinite for some inputs but convergent for others. Not a computer scientist but would be happy for someone to correct me if I’m wrong.

[@llortaton2834]

current AI are not conscious and AI doesn't need to be conscious to be considered true AI. Dan has a arbitrary definition of what AI is and that's fine but by definition, current AI is true AI.

[@MrDivined]

Dan just completely ignoring the questions to ask his own is annoying the fuck out of me

[@umgeburstet8161]

i think that there is no valid claim about AI being anthropomorphic, despite the clearly epistemic nature of the structure, which can in behavior (not structure) be similar to that of a human (biological organism). maybe consciousness is about asking "can i explain this organisms nessecity for consciousnes?" i assume evolutionarily animals utilize consciousness to recognize themselves as part of and interacting with environment, which must have some benefit to survival.

[@xxee1xx]

3 non programmers talking about AI, riveting

[@911jumper911ttt329]

May I give my opinion on the weather if I'm not a meteorologist?

[@TimeattackGD]

the first people to create realistic humans for ses will be neckbeards that weigh more than 3000 lbs and defnitely never had ses, get over it

[@Gizzardx0]

@@TimeattackGD i bet you thought you were really cool typing that out

[@Ruchikun]

Too bad the ai conversation was about some hypotheticals that has been discussed a million times by actual experts and not about the: energy crisis, the impact on economy, mass layoffs (whether or not legitimate or because out of sheer profit) and the scraping of our entire lives by these corpos.

[@g07denslicer]

34:16 between $3k and $15k per KILOWATTHOUR?? Surely he meant per kilowatt. There is no way in hell the cost is that high given we pay pennies per kilowatt hour.

[@grunkous6360]

No one notice the twitch thermos Destiny has lol

[@S.G.Wallner]

Destiny, to develop your ideas on consciousness, check out, Michael Levin, Bernardo Kastrup, John Searle, Ian McGilchrist.

[@sheacampbell5019]

IM HERE! Hi MOM 👋

[@quanchi371]

you can clearly see the spit fly across the table into Dan's mouth. Kinky.

[@invincible8115]

The irony of that sub 40 lQ black dude talking about how "democracy can only be saved by offing the opposition" is next level wiId. Edit: Though based on unhinged ET's deranged Tweets in the last 24 hours, that make sense why he watches Tiny.

[@palpat8431]

Destiny too was once so impressed by AI that he essentially said "well if that's not intellect we need to redefine what intellect is" - right, we need to downgrade human intelligence because you were impressed with how the AI assembled its word salad so well. But I'm genuinely glad he moved past that, though him scoffing and laughing at people saying the same thing now is a bit funny. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pH-zlaqona95n68 from 6:40 to 7:10 "If you're gonna call the current iterations of these things just infinite "if - then" statements, you're gonna have to say that human brains are the same, we're just "if - then" statements" -t. Destiny Right now AI doesn't even compete with SLIME (a single cell organism no less) for consciousness and problem solving, and I mean this quite literally, you can look up a number of videos on youtube that talk about the intelligence of slime and fungus, if you want an accessible funny version you can check out the video by Ze Frank. And thinking that if you give AI a camera will do ANYTHING is just typical anthropomorphizing on our part. AI can't tell what anything IS, there is zero comprehension, even though we fed it captcha results so it can identify a bike, a bus, a bridge, a fire hydrant etc. Remember those early AI generated images that look like a fever dream where you sort of recognize parts of things but once you focus on them and try to identify what it is you find that it is literally nothing comprehensible? That's actually a good estimation of how the AI would "see" the world if armed with a camera, it is all just meaningless data and not true experience. But here's the thing - this applies to every level of how AI operates. AI that "talks" to you is literally just a words and sentences factory, letters running along assembly lines as robotic arms put them together, you wouldn't call an automated car production line conscious just because it can put pieces together into a functional car, but our tendency to anthropomorphize is so strong that this word salad factor is good enough for us to carry it over the finish line as being supposedly conscious. In reality though, the AI has no comprehension of the sentences it builds, it has no comprehension of the words it builds, it has no comprehension of what the word 'WORD' even means, nor the individual letters, NOT EVEN THE NUMBERS - AI doesn't actually know WHAT a 1 and 0 ARE despite ostensibly "running on ones and zeroes" as the phrase goes. AI doesn't even comprehend the means by which it is built and operates, that's how lacking in ANY sense of intelligence it is. AI is stuck in a limbo of abstraction, a digital purgatory if you will, and has no way of truly perceiving or comprehending the material reality it nominally exists in, truth is it doesn't even occupy material reality in the same sense anything else does, it is cut off from all experience, the closest a human can come to this state of being is if they had locked-in syndrome, were blind, deaf and incapable of ANY sensation, just a black void of experience... and yet the human mind would STILL be something infinitely qualitatively superior in that situation compared to anything AI is now or can EVER become. It's just a tool, use it for it's intended purposes, don't aggrandize it.

[@Bennystevexslk]

Dan is insufferable and should never do a podcast

[@qoralswp]

As much as I love Destiny and Dan shoot the shit, why the fuck are they doing call-ins if they aren't interested in letting the callers actually talk? Just do something else.

[@user-bh5xo1dn7v]

From simple Atoms to Cells with DNA(instructions) to neurons(connected through wires and electrical impulses) This is what a human is. AI achieved the neurons part but is still limited because of the lack of free will.

[@GuttTruck]

The AI shit is brain damage

[@iMagicGraalOnline]

3:29 this dude has toilet paper right next to his nightstand.... hmmm....

[@dima13693]

Anyone else hate the initial screeching when the video starts? Do you think august would listen if we staged a coup?

[@ShortFatOtaku]

fucken soyattle, bro

[@bennymountain1]

Love how Dan's two services are literal snake oil 😂 Yes, I mean Redact and this new Redact-AI. The results you get literally can not be quantified so you don't even know what you're paying for 🤣

[@fifab82]

What’s with the crazy audio or is that just me?

[@hacKING623]

This segment might be better on the other podcast. I like the banter between destiny and dan but that shouldn't exist in a viewer call in segment. Pretty cringe

[@mindlander]

I think i hate this podcast.

[@iLuvMisaell]

i kinda do too

[@mofishin2648]

I blame Dan

[@azure_azure]

Dan thinks he is a genius who we want to hear talk and Destiny doesn't give a shit. It's just a mess.

[@cryxbaby2250]

Your heart is gonna pop

[@DaDa-rg6ts]

Destiny has goth girl that's trying to go against her conservative parents energy

[@michaelcameron6961]

Dans description of ai is technically true but incredibly naive

[@RagingEmmissary]

This is like destiny and his friend on a monitor watching a monkey trying to explain how to make a computer

[@Kanggaxx]

This was too much weird energy. Relax and let the man speak you children

[@xotwod3254]

9:56

[@pedrob7374]

You can make an argument that we are just super complex prediction models. If you think about it, we have a goal and then predict what we need to get to that goal. And not everyone has an internal monolog

[@Ju1i77]

let the ai guy talk it was just starting to get interesting like bruh nice i see the lv 1 argument everyone knows

[@juancsmix]

the school take is not that good. i went to a rick kid school but wasnt wealthy myself. during shool it was great, fun times, parties, etc. as soon as people went to university then the social and economic class differences were very noticeable. different worlds. lost contact with most of them. unless your kid is 100% thinking about contacts and networking and actually going to good universities and having the money to "start a business" as he mentioned then you're not going to get any benefit from those contacts. that was my experience. rich kids can get into drugs as much or more than other kids.

[@KryptoniteWorld]

I am not understanding this drive to use AI in a scary manner? Why are we hell bent into driving ourselves to our own destruction. Anyone into gaming? I recreated KITT from the Knight Rider series. I don't want machines to take over and hence I am concentrating on gaming AI 😂

[@louisburke8927]

Wow, Dan is a massive tool

[@OnramRiftz]

these podcasts are terrible. Sorry, not these are not for me...

[@ReddFoxx1562]

Destiny is literally explaining Evolution as he tries to refute the concept of AI potentially gaining consciousness

[@Metathronos]

Consciousness arises, according to Roger Penrose, from quantum processes in the brain. He explains this in his Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch-OR) theory. He says that some structures (microtubules) which are components of neurons, are where quantum computations take place. If this is true, this could mean that there are varying levels of consciousness among beings that have these structures or similar structures. It could be tempting to suggest then that consciousness arises from computation, but Penrose says that consciousness cannot be fully explained through algorithmic processes. Or maybe it's just like Sam Harris says: consciousness arises from matter but we don't know yet which configuration of matter specifically creates consciousness or if it can arise from many different configurations.

[@AHappyWatermelon]

poggies

[@tonybg1985]

AI bros so bad want to use the C word

[@Zenoelevi]

Do your research. This is pathetic

[@tkog2526]

I thought Destiny was a black woman

[@iLuvMisaell]

she is

[@sleepykeys4007]

What a shitshow

[@AspiringDevil]

LLMs are cool tech but they are not AI & will not suddenly become so. Currently they aren't even close to counting as general AI. At best they are VIs. The ghost in the machine idea that we just keep making a program or computer more & more complicated & powerful it simply spontaneously become sentient is just wrong. I get why it's appealing especially if you have a dubious definition of sentient, & it appeals to how we feel about the randomness of the world around us. But we didn't suddenly become sentient, we had all the requirements met to have the possibility & then the luck to be in an environment where intelligence was enough of an advantage to be carried by our evolution. It can feel like it was spontaneous but really it wasn't. For an AI to emerge from a program it must already have the requirements met & the situation to encourage the change.

[@GroxEmpire]

This is the LTT Linus AI take and it is wrong. AI is a term invented in the 1960s, before Ghosts in The Machine, Terminator, or Jarvis. We have been calling AI for something more primitive than LLM. We call computer opponents in game as AI. What you mean by those sophisticated AI systems are AGI (Artificial General Intelligence) not just AI. People are grasping straws to try to discredit current AI that they went full pedantic while being wrong. LLM is AI. It uses deep learning techniques which is a subset of machine learning, which is a subset of artificial intelligence. There has been no standard on how good the product is to be called AI. AI is a product that uses AI technology such as Machine Learning, etc.

[@cjpack]

@@GroxEmpire Thank you I was literally yelling at the screen IT IS AI AND ITS A SUBSET OF MACHINE LEARNING, this idea that AI isnt Ai unless it is sentient or an AGI is retarded and no one in the industry thinks that

[@AspiringDevil]

@@GroxEmpire I'm well aware but no one uses that definition & the people selling these new "AI" are claiming it is the definition I'm using. You literally demonstrated my point in a way. While we may call big blue or the cpu controlled enemy in a strategy game AI no one sane is claiming it is a sentient being with its own agency & will. I literally acknowledged LLMs are a cool product that I see having many uses as it's refined but the conversation was literally about this AI being sentient or leading to it becoming sentient. While interesting nothing you said counters my point. It is not sentient & can not sentient simply by being left running & googling things for lazy people.

[@GroxEmpire]

@@AspiringDevil I'll agree with destiny that discussing if AI sentient or not is just boring and useless. We don't even know what sentient is or how we can get them. Even if we have super AGI that can do everything as good as human, the topic of sentient will be debated. Moreover, any prediction of upcoming technology is most of the time rubbish. We couldn't predict the performance of LLM 5 years ago, let alone predicting if current technology can bring AGI.

[@AspiringDevil]

@@GroxEmpire that I 100% agree with Remember pre the agricultural revolution? The technological predictions were pretty much everything other than what was actually on the horizon of new technology & no one predicted the problem could be solved at all. Even people within cutting edge fields have a hard time predicting what will actually be successful let alone revolutionary tech. LLMs I believe probably a good example of this. I believe admittedly from the perspective of a layman who just watches science from the sidelines I remember people saying Tay was the limit of what LLMs are probably capable of, yet as much as meme on chatgbt it is a huge leap over Tay.

[@HuKayers]

Ai can’t even do computation. So in no way shape & form is it close to being sentient or intelligent. All it really does is mash shit together. If you force it to think, it shits itself

[@tmchannel8483]

you mean to say LLM not AI.

[@shiiswii4136]

Not even a little bit true

[@bennymountain1]

You can't force it to think. There literally is no "think" button on it.

[@HuKayers]

@@bennymountain1 Geez, you need a “button” in order to make it think? Just because their is no button, doesn’t mean you can’t force AI/LLM to think bud, that’s a dumb arguement. It’s the way you write the prompt to force the AI to synthesize & expand on the information. It doesn’t have the capability to do it or do it well. And the level in which it understands the material it gives out is very surface level that often times becomes incorrect, if you know enough to check it.

[@bennymountain1]

@@HuKayers So by "think" you mean constructing a prompt the answer to which doesn't have existing material loaded into the model, right? Then no, it expectedly makes no sense. The way LLM works is generate random chunks of text and comparing them to the references it has in the model. If the similarity to text it already has is high enough (say, 50% similar to a Times or Wikipedia article) the program goes "good enough, show it to the user". Sometimes the "good" 50% are flowery polite fluff language and trash 50% are the words that would contain meaning on the subject, even facts. There is no "understanding", even surface level. It works like Polly the parrot, making noises that humans mistake for words.

[@jdkingsley6543]

Destiny and Dan made this convo insufferable but they are on the right side of the conversation. The caller might be a bit dated with his information of conscious and how it relates to AI and machines, recent discussions amongst the topics great minds, e.g., Dr. Hameroff, Kastrup. Have all come to the conclusion that consciousness is non-computational-- as in its not something we can program, there are no algorithms . Consciousness is not something we can just expect computers to become because feed a billion data points into an LLM or chilled a quantum chandler to some ridiculously cold temp. It appears that consciousness may in fact be an exclusively an 'organic' trait, a by product of being arranged the way we are in nature on both macro and micro scales. So when we figure out how to incorporate organic material into the mix of A.I and quantum computing (which is in the works) we might get close.

[@Diana-xx6my]

I happen to personally agree with biological naturalism, but I think it's a misrepresentation to say that "in recent discussions amongst the topics great minds have all come to the conclusion that consciousness is non-computational" or that it's an exclusively "organic" trait. These are greatly contested views with no clear "right side of the conversation" among AI experts & philosophers.

[@WiseWeeabo]

This is just sad and misinformed. AI is not MORE "if this then that" than ANYTHING ELSE in life, in fact it's much less so than most things we've ever invented so far in regards to being something that we actually understand the "then" and "that" of. If you want to begin to understand NN-based AI your first step should be to understand Conway's Game of Life, and understand how this relates just as much to humans and our reality in regards to how something very difficult to describe or grasp can come out of a very simple set of RULES, where something takes all possible actions within a set of given rules can result in behavior that are very complex and not foreseen by the rules alone. Much like the algorithm that allows the AI to form an incredibly complex space of reality and emotions and humanity and science from a relatively simple algorithm or set of rules that it follows when training on data.

[@lampad4549]

What wiki did you copy and paste that from?

[@cjpack]

i stroked out reading this

[@WiseWeeabo]

@@cjpack are these just Destiny haters replying to me? if not then Destiny says you're supposed to address the actual specific issues you're having and which part is confusing you

[@WiseWeeabo]

NN-based AI is not a "complex set of code", it's not code, it's trained weights based on a comparatively simple set of rules, It's so hard to convey this information to a normie that doesn't know anything about the subject without apparently inducing a stroke idk man learn something before speaking about it

[@Gizzardx0]

Do you know what assembly, binary, and memory is? You act like you know a lot about this but said very little in your comment. You just rambled aimlessly about a bunch of things that are barely connected and thought it was a good point. You didn't even describe what your position is. Are you saying AI is conscious? What does conscious mean? How would you prove that? Why would it even matter? The reason we don't have a clear definition of 'consciousness' is because the term was created to differentiate ourselves from other species. The exact cause in the brain (if it even exists at all) isn't known even after millennia of research, so you're not gonna magically fix the problem in a KZbin comment section.

[@nobilissimo]

Dan the goat no cap

[@WiseWeeabo]

I'm fairly sure that current AI has a conscious experience. It's probably difficult to relate to the form of experience it has, and it's hard to say exactly if this experience matters or not in the sense of being able to put it on a scale of "how conscious" something is where humans and apes are probably somewhere higher than insects that are probably somewhere higher than mycelium which is probably somewhere higher than a rock.

[@cjpack]

No it absolutely does not that would have been ground breaking news if it did and openAI would have reached their goals, but regardless that isnt a requirement for AI to be AI, that is just a certain requirement for a specific type of AI. you sound like a crazy person claiming LLMs are conscious

[@WiseWeeabo]

@@cjpack OpenAI's goal is not conscious AI. Consciousness is not a goal it's a side-effect. There is no type of AI that requires consciousness, not even AGI or ASI. We have NO idea what so ever, zero idea, on how to possibly aim for- or program- a more CONSCIOUS being or entity, we just know that we are probably more conscious than an ant. And it's not on or off it's a scale.

[@WiseWeeabo]

@@cjpack OpenAI's goal is not to create a conscious AI. No version of AI requires consciousness. I think that stroke you're having is probably affecting your ability to keep up with youtube comments

[@WiseWeeabo]

@@cjpack also wtf, how would it be ground breaking news, explain to me what machine would be used to measure and prove that AI is conscious or not conscious??? what drugs are you on actually, that would be the first breaking news to be able to say that it is for sure not conscious... man ur stroke must be pretty bad

[@WiseWeeabo]

Neuroscientists studied the brain, they took what they knew to people working in computer science in an attempt to digitally reproduce what brains do. All we really know at this point is that it seems to be working.

[@domm5715]

dan is kinda living in la la land if he truley thinks that private school kids do less drugs than public school kids. i went to a private school , we hands down did more drugs than the entire public school system of the whole state. if you aint got your daddies $$ to buy drugs with , your not gettin any. private school kids are 100X more deliquent than public. they got the means to get into shit, and the help that comes from rich or richer parents, to get you out of trouble or to get a lawyer.