Debating Sargon About Coach Redpill, Men vs Women And Relationships

[@destiny]

Destiny debates Sargon and pushes back against conservative views on women and men, dating, traditional roles and more.

[@hoobadydoo4797]

This wasn't a debate haha, D: "yeah i agree" S: "no, i agree more"

[@OutdatedBeverage]

There were definitely some points where Destiny COULD have pushed back, but he let a lot slide. I actually think this convo was slightly irresponsible of him tbh

[@carlosallison8955]

Destiny mostly agrees with Sargon, with slight pushback in his anecdotal experience in his own relationships.

[@OutdatedBeverage]

@@carlosallison8955 when you find yourself mostly agreeing with Sargon of Akkad about women’s roles in relationships and broader society, maybe some introspection is required. I think destiny has become a little un-self aware at times tbh

[@carlosallison8955]

When a driving reason you disagree with something is the source of an idea, rather than an actual critique of the idea, I feel you need a bit more introspection. I say that as someone who both agreed with Destiny on his four reasons, and agree with Sargon that there are downstream impacts on culture promoting a no-consequences idea of do whatever you want sexually.

[@jordanblahblah5685]

Every time Destiny says"sexual " he really emphasizes it a and slightly raises his voice. SEXUAL!

[@toomuchmidi]

Destiny is a hornyboi. Vaush said so.

[@Margarinetaylorgrease]

@@toomuchmidi Aren't we all?

[@kevinaraque3100]

So cute

[@peffiSC2source]

It's a very emphasiseable word tbf.

[@gustercc]

@@peffiSC2source it’s got a nice arrangement of lingual accents. Kinda like fallacious.

[@mikesmith542]

I'm digging the hell out of these somewhat chill discussions/debates. I'm all for disagreement and different opinions but I just can't handle the constant passive aggressiveness, name-calling, sarcasm, and straw man nonsense that seems to permeate the debate bro environment.

[@trivialcomment8354]

Yeah I’m not a fan of Sargon, but the chill talk was nice for a change

[@scarlet8078]

Agreed. I find this topic to be sort of gross but Sargon is at least civil

[@justliving920]

@@trivialcomment8354 I'm a fan of Sargon, and I find these conversations much more interesting than the constant debate me bro bs. This was a nice change.

[@TNTspaz]

I think destiny is finally realizing he doesn't need to be a debate bro anymore to get views. A lot of his current viewership kind of despise the debate bro stuff now that Destiny has shown he doesn't need it to have a conversation His old justification for it was that it brought in views and caused discourse where there wouldn't be any. Think things are finally moving on though

[@justliving920]

@@TNTspaz I'd like to think things are moving on through, but we'll see. I never watched much of Destiny, but when I saw he wasn't as fanatical as the bread tube types, I thought he was at least worth giving a listen.

[@phantimboboto5333]

A big part of this is that nowadays a lot more women are getting degrees and jobs that can provide for them economically so the "standard" of men being marriage material for having a career has just become a baseline of being a member of society at all.

[@G.Giorgio]

Doesn't mean that his comment isn't applying to social reality today

[@visperad541]

@socially unacceptable im pretty sure marriage is originally about love, but for as long as humans have existed elites in society use it as a bargaining tool

[@faeiger9215]

No it wasn’t😂 stop watching Disney

[@visperad541]

@@faeiger9215 Ah, and I'm sure you know exactly what it was originally for

[@chi8514]

ahh yes the men are wallets arguments , if you dont have money boys what use are you as a wallet

[@murdoch3396]

This is why I like Destiny. He didn’t have Carl on just to treat him like an idiot and dunk on him like Vaush does with everyone he has on that he disagrees with. This is just two men having a productive, engaging conversation about something they disagree on in several ways but are mature enough to talk about in a civilized manner that isn’t painful to listen to. That’s why I’m convinced so many of these other streamers are just in it for the dopamine rush of dunking on someone in front of a hoard of sycophantic fans and don’t actually give a damn about anything they claim to stand for.

[@55S55]

watch his last debate with sargon, he was much more combatative and confrontation with sargon. this one was much more refreshing though, i agree

[@whatsgood6440]

Vaushs Chad Dunks are more entertaining though.

[@murdoch3396]

@@whatsgood6440 Maybe if I was 14 years old and obsessed with the word “poggies” that would be more my thing. I like the actual arguments.

[@whatsgood6440]

@@murdoch3396 Wait How? When I say dunking I mean he made them look foolish during an argument. It’s actually really good arguments.

[@Onthebrink5]

@@whatsgood6440 Making someone look foolish at an argument is not as good. Vaush accepted a debate with Sargon and when he was called on to debate he said that he was going to bed. Sargon sucks but Vaush did not want to debate with Sargon on should Socialist content creators help people.

[@Patrick-gy2qu]

Just wanna say that I like when the thumbnails and titles aren't the cringey exaggerated faces with clickbait capital titles. Makes your content match what's being watched. I know it's to game the algorithm but I think it's better this way.

[@alex-qd6of]

It was totally clickbait. They weren't debating about coachredpill

[@Landmarkmoon]

Exactly. This is high quality content bogged down by clickbait titles

[@entova]

I dont mind nor care. Youll nvr know if the videos good from the title anyways

[@gustercc]

Wait…there’s an algorithm that’s lead to all these ridiculous faces and poses people make on the thumbnails?? I’m honestly in the dark here.

[@bobguyson6151]

@@gustercc its more so that people are more likely to click it if its clickbait which then makes youtube recommend it to more people

[@avacyn2000]

Damn this was actually civil, like two mates talking. Love to see it.

[@Kilborns]

40:39 holy shit. I opened a monster hunched over a keyboard at this exact moment

[@carrier2823]

The new arc of right leaning people coming to the table to talk more cordially has started

[@Localpref416]

I mean Sargon was always a pretty relaxed guy. I feel like a lot of Destiny’s camp would inflate him with people like “No-bullshit” or “Naked Ape”. The first time they talked destiny had a nuclear melt down and start flailing around then Dmca’d a set of clips Sargon made of him contradicting himself.

[@xray5984]

@@Localpref416 I can see why anyone talking to carlgon would have a complete meltdown.

[@ungusjr9391]

@@Localpref416 Conflate

[@noided5599]

nah it s just that destiny just shifted to the right with them

[@RolaiEckolo]

@@noided5599 His lefty arc has buffed his economic concerns, so now he's fiscally conservative and socially liberal. /s

[@ShacoPL]

More like a chill convo

[@KaptajnKaffe]

I want more of does, it is just more usefull than the shouting matches....

[@kylenolan7400]

@@KaptajnKaffe see shouting matches are more fun to watch but convos like these get more done.

[@nefariousthings-v5e]

I like this about destiny. he's more interested in exploring topics than many others who rather than just have a win than anything else.

[@MrDagenham]

Yeah tbh I loved it , two streamers I watch and find myself somewhere between the 2 , to see them be so agreeable was really refreshing tbh

[@Lucabran9093]

@@KaptajnKaffe it’s so much more relaxing to see two people on separate sides just have a chill conversation. There’s so much more good faith and and moderation happening and you can actively see the other size actually take the other point into consideration. I’m probably a hard leftest, but seeing this happen just feels so refreshing.

[@Alexisking222]

Great conversation guys. It's nice hearing a no bullshit conversation where people take the time to understand and respond to each other's points

[@Journeyman2585]

Damn, I haven't seen Carl in a good while, and just found out who Destiny is very recently. I appreciate seeing this kind of calm discourse between people with opposing views, we need more of this.

[@MemekingSupreme]

I feel like I've gone back in time by a couple of years for this video

[@alex-qd6of]

Back to the 1950s, with boregone of oh gawd.

[@karimshebeika8010]

ye 2010 when sargon wasnt yet telling lies about my hometown...

[@laurenw4818]

i can't tell if i just live in a separate universe to the one sargon and coach red pill are in, but i feel like all of these complaints they have about the modern women are entirely invented and a product of spending 24 hours a day online and not interacting with actual real life women. most women do not in fact have an only fans account, and, in my experience, dress reasonably modestly, make an effort to appear attractive and aren't raging SJWs. beauty standards are more pernicious than they have ever been. like, please, where is this magical place where women don't give a fuck about appearing attractive and just exist comfortably in their own skin without constantly feeling as though they are an object being looked at bc i wanna live there

[@cuteasxtreme]

I agree that Sargon talks like he’s in a bit of an internet bubble… but his concerns from the perspective of that bubble are reasonable imo.

[@SHADOWxSN1PER]

@Pike Man i think the point is that that place doesn't technically exist

[@hoominbeeing]

You can destroy almost all of these red pill types by simply asking for statistics or studies. They literally have no statistical evidence that beauty standards are becoming more lax nor causational studies proving promiscuity causes all the bad things they state.

[@SHADOWxSN1PER]

@Pike Man it doesn't technically exist, because a woman who doesn't wear make up, pretty herself up, etc., will be looked upon unfavorably as a dating partner by most men. A lot of jobs, espescially in media, sometimes require use of makeup. You're assuming how I operate just to have the feeling youve got some sort of gotcha, which is very funny. However, I don't care much for what I'm wearing, and don't try to buy stuff just to fit with the group. That being said, I'd never want to walk around with breath that smelled like a dead animal, not having showered for weeks, completely naked, or with shit in my pants; I think it's fair to not want those specific things in public, but they are extremes for why it's not technically true you can do whatever you want and still have the normal human experience. You have to somewhat engage in the social game of life if you want to get through it normally.

[@Bjjboxing]

Thank you!! Destiny makes him come off as reasonable

[@TheRedHaze3]

God it's crazy how uncharitable so many of the people in the chat are. Sargon: "This woman is *my* woman. She is special *to me,* and no one else." Chat: "Heaven forbid you don't get to own a woman!" Yeah, okay. He definitely wasn't referring about the exclusivity inherent to monogamous relationships and the feeling that produces in people, *both* people, where they feel special and possessive of their partner, and often refer to their partner endearingly as, "my woman"/"my man".

[@ManicPandaz]

To be fair, my wife doesn’t want me to shave my beard off and I don’t want to her to cut her hair. It can go both ways.

[@umejiaku6]

Same ✋

[@a.b.coating]

Same same

[@swingingfordearlife]

Yep. And it’s not “oppressive” and bad, people just like and are attracted to things and compromises happen in relationships about all kinds of shit

[@Cadec247]

It’s a preference that not everybody has you’re exactly right 🙂

[@DualModernField]

My gf has the same thing but with chest hair.

[@deanmccrorie3461]

Keep up the good work destiny. I honestly feel this laid back anti-hostile debates is what can slowly bring back the world to peace

[@grief_hammer]

Sargon identifies material issues (birth rate, increased monetisation of all human interactions) and ignores all material factors that might have contributed to these things emerging, preferring to restate disgust mantras about niche cultures he dislikes.

[@TheNoodleGod9001]

Yeah it does feel like most of his positions on female sexuality come down to a disgust for used goods.

[@grief_hammer]

@@TheNoodleGod9001 most social conservatism is about disgust. It's like he thinks prostitution didn't exist before contemporary "leftist" culture. He totally fails to account for the possibility that (to some extent) prior ways of living (that will be upheld as traditional) may have themselves been shaped by material realities of the day, instead of being some incontrovertible internal truth about attractiveness and desire.

[@basedcentrist3056]

There is quite a lot of psychological evidence that people (men or women) with many sexual partners have a lot more problems making long term connections/relationships. I know what you mean, it does seem like Sargon is like that, but there is evidence to show why having an aversion to promiscuousness, especially if you are looking to have a LTR, is good from that perspective

[@grief_hammer]

@@basedcentrist3056 I don't doubt that at all. I just don't think increasing levels of promiscuity that we observe are due to leftist cultural influence. I think two points worth considering: 1: people's lives respond to and are shaped by thier material reality to a vast degree- cultural artefacts of this are possibly symptoms. 2: How much do we want to trust historic data on levels of promiscuity? It might be accurate for the 1950s, but over hundreds of years? It's easy to assert a "way it used to be" that feels right, but often it's very nebulous.

[@magicsteve5523]

He uses it to fear-monger just look at that podcast he’s on

[@Kardel_VA]

pretty chill discussion tbh

[@pablowall]

Yeah and good compromise on positions etc, good talk tbh. Look how many lefties are soo offended in the other comments lol, I love the cope.

[@peterpehlivan157]

Destiny didn't go hard enough on him. He was giving too much ground to him in my view. Sargon made vague garbage points, as he always does, and Destiny missed a lot of opportunities to repudiate them.

[@BDKoala]

@@peterpehlivan157 yeah like whenever Sargon mentions 'pillars of civilization' you know he needs to be probed deeper as it could easily just be a cover for ethnonationalism

[@peterpehlivan157]

@@BDKoala Yeah, exactly. Or how China is going to outbreed us. Total bullshit, the reason why they lifted the that one child policy is that their birthrate has been declining recently like every rich place. And that "REALITY says most women have to be trad wives." Or "NATURE incentivizes women not to [be promiscuous], but FeMiNiSm incentivizes them otherwise" (??????) Fucking yikes.

[@BDKoala]

@Pike Man OK you think my comment was a stretch but somehow seemed to pickup a ethnonationalist talking point espoused by Sargon that if we let in too many brownies the culture will be irredeeambly changed. The problem is, no one here (out of major political parties) is proposing mass migration on that scale as it would destroy social services, infrastructure, Healthcare etc. That's why most countries have a cap or keep net migration to a sustainable level, so your hypothetical is not even realistic. And the thing about culture is that it is always changing/transforming, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

[@dead_girl__]

Destiny didn't say "I love you be careful okay" at the end. Hates Sargon confirmed?

[@ronaldmexico1297]

I hope so

[@TravelWithBradley]

Pretty clear he does, ye.

[@wakkablockablaw6025]

@@ronaldmexico1297 Hater

[@dead_girl__]

@nathanael dunann He clearly doesn't. Did you watch the video? They agreed on most things.

[@dead_girl__]

@nathanael dunann I'm pretty sure he hates Nick. I think he used to really dislike Sargon back in the day but they seem much more chill now.

[@WTFBUTWHY]

This dude had Destiny on just about every point. Like I always say. Look at the suicide and depression rate Maybe. Just MAYBE… it isn’t working

[@aaronh9653]

Haven’t seen this guy in a while

[@murdoch3396]

Nice galaxy news radio pic! Lol

[@humanoid8344]

He seems much more well adjusted than his old self

[@ajmari9585]

@@humanoid8344 Don't buy it, he's just putting on a face for this particular interview to get that reaction. Sargon is very much in the "the election was stolen" camp and is promoting far right European politicians on his channel.

[@ThenDarknessFalls]

@@ajmari9585 good point. You can't be reasonable and have issues that diverge from American leftist politics.

[@ajmari9585]

@@ThenDarknessFalls Thanks for being accidentally left wing, but no, I actually don't think he's reasonable. Someone who's been propping up and gritting off the lie for months that the election was stolen that led to 5 people dying trying to take over the Capitol and has led to about 30% of people in this country trying to make voting harder isn't "reasonable" to me. Maybe he speaks to you because you don't get laid or something and the conversation about women's body count is super important to you but I actually care about the important shit.

[@sydneemikumuren9812]

As a traditional woman, my complaints weren't even like 'he plays too much video games'. It was stuff like, 'I want a husband that I can trust will be loyal to me', 'I want someone that has similar values(conservative Christian values)', 'I want a guy who will be a good father/wants a family'. You'd be surprised how many men will say straight out they aren't interested in marriage/settling down, or they just want hookups and crap, guys that just can't hold a conversation other than small talk bs. It was so discouraging because as a 19 yo girl looking for a partner, guys my age generally just aren't wanting the same things as me. I prefer older men anyway and my fiance is 7 years older, but many guys I met before him were creeps in like their 40s looking at a 19 YEAR OLD WTF. I'm so glad I'm not single anymore lol.

[@novac1990]

Yeah I think a good portion of that is the maturity difference between men and women at certain ages. My fiance is six years younger, she was 19 and I was 25. I think even a year before I wouldnt have been ready for that type of commitment. I know at 19 i was not in anyway ready for a serious longterm partner. Maybe at the time I thought I was but looking back I wasnt ready.

[@vorynrosethorn903]

Norm on both sides unfortunately, most outward facing people aren't serious and most serious people are demotivated from engaging with the dating market due to the prevalence of bad actors. There is a massive rise in religiously traditional young men going on but those movements basically don't have young women at the moment, or at least not enough for all the guys who want to get married and start families.

[@jidmoore10]

I don't understand why Sargon believes that women are holding men to a unfair deal (I'm halfway thru the video btw). It sounds like he's saying that there is stock in women being held to a traditional standard but he isn't explaining in depth why that traditional standard has merit......everything seems to be boiling down to preference (at least in the way he is framing it).

[@marmite_popsicle]

@Schino Schina ok, I'll explain the trad wife thing (my gf wants to be one. I don't though, because I find it unfair to me). The argument with cooking and cleaning is: If you want to be a stay at home mom, that raises the kids, fine. But then also prepare the food, clean the house, maybe iron the shirts. Because in kind the husband is soley responsible for keeping the budget afloat by working his ass off. Its a give and take. If you don't like that deal, don't be a trad wife. Vive versa, if you want to have a strong dominating husband who makes more money (trad husband), do the dishes, aso (trad wife)

[@anchess2517]

The men are held to a traditional standard always while women pick and choose when to be traditional or modern. That's the unfair deal.

[@jidmoore10]

@@anchess2517 men are held to a traditional standard because I feel like alot of men hold men and want to be held to a traditional standard. Maybe what I see is localized to my social media browsing but the posts I see about "being a real man" and "traditional standards" ..the majority of them are made by men and some of them are definitely made by women. This seems to be a internal problem when I look at it. How can we expect women to not hold us to something that we are enforcing amongst ourselves?

[@anchess2517]

@@jidmoore10 Women want a guy who earns more money than them even though woman are out earning men in a lot of different areas. Women want a guy to be traditionally masculine-dominant assertive confident. Women want a guy who is taller than them and stronger than them. There are all traditional characteristics women want in men. That's why I said men are held to a traditional standard but women pick and choose when to be traditional or modern. If I am being traditional and ask her to cook or clean, she replies"I am a modern woman" and when I ask her to pay the bills, she replies " Oh that's you job as a man".

[@anchess2517]

Also there are many men telling men "how to be men" because nobody teaches boys how to be men. In the US a good percent of boys are brought up in single mother household, have no masculine role model in school/college and then the women expect them to be masculine.

[@bobbyz9052]

Destiny: "Men aren't living up to their tradcon standards, they should work on themselves and fulfill their duty to civilization" Sargon: "I agree and I'm willing to beat them with a stick until they do meet those standards, but women need to meet some standards as well" Destiny: "Well I think culture has changed"

[@crazymike1706]

Yep. As I stated before, that was an extreme straw man

[@TheRedHaze3]

Not only did he deflect, he deflected with such an irrelevant point. So fucking what if culture has changed and we're more accepting of nerds? That was an unreasonable standard in the first place. The only reason women wouldn't touch nerds with a 10ft pole is because of reasons like, "my friends would laugh at me," or "that stuff is weird". How many unreasonable standards does the average man have? Sargon's characterisation was more about the monster energy and the hunchback and whatever, not the mere fact that lots of guys play video games.

[@allelitememesaem3916]

Well that's not what Destiny said. His point is that you shouldn't expect to attract people that are out of your league. Society has changed and you also shouldn't beat people with a stick so they are forced to suit your dated ideology.

[@allelitememesaem3916]

@@TheRedHaze3 He didnt deflect. He made the same point. Men don't have to suit dated ideologies such as not being nerds. The same way women don't. However, if you want to attract people who adhere to these dated ideologies, you have to yourself.

[@firstandlastname6194]

Yeah you totally missed the point on this. Destiny said that if you want a trad wife you need to actually be a trad man. Meet the standards you invoke on the other sex. You shouldn't be sniping at women from the shadows and odor of your cave made of stiffened socks.

[@arnaeri9290]

As a tip for the future, if Destiny wants to bring up birth rates and all that in this kind of debate he should read up on the sociological research, just to be able to support his arguments better. It is a well established fact that the only way you can "force" women to have more children is to ban them from receiving education. On the point Sargon made about Denmark's birth rate, as a foreigner living here I keep getting surprised that a lot of families have at least 2-3 kids, and a bunch of people I know have like over 5 other siblings. In a standard marriage situation a family will likely have up to or around 3 kids, anything beyond that would usually involve remarriages or having new partners. As a rando on the internet, in my opinion, big factors that help maintain the high birth rate are good social security, free education, strong economy, healthcare. Their healthcare can be super rad. So these are the intuitive points other countries can aim for.

[@3112-x9r]

Government handouts aren't necessary to maintain a high birth rate. The most important factor that influences whether or not to have children is the cost of living. Also, it's not "free" education since people are still paying for it via higher taxation.

[@Manolara1]

Lol wut. Correlation =/= causation. Sociological research shows that a main reason higher educated women have less children is because they have a career and either have no time to raise children or find it too expensive to both work and pay for childcare, nannies or whatever. Which is why they're having children when they're older and more financially secure. Women with less education often have a spouse that looks after them so they can stay home and raise their kids. I.e traditional type of family unit, which is often seen in immigrant/migrant/refugee families and in developing nations. Note that these nations and family units are often economically poorer. The expectation is their kids will get an education, have a good paying job which will help the family out of poverty.

[@youare5907]

@@3112-x9r you know you destroy the word "free" from the english language the way youre using it right? Literally nothing is free if we are pedantic af.

[@arnaeri9290]

@@Manolara1 don't you think that it's their only way in life to find a spouse that earns enough to support the woman and their children, it's not like she has a degree in anything and it's not like she can get any job that would be paying enough to provide for her family if she happens to have one. The lack of time may be true for murica, cuz people have to work multiple jobs. Here people have one job, work till 6 pm and then have enough time to go out or drive their children to play dates or whatever else. Have you ever looked at the research outside your country? The entire "third world" has this issue of high birthrate that hinges on women not having access to school and sex education.

[@meh2972]

Danish birth rate is 1.73 so your anecdotal examples are rather pointless.

[@clonerstive]

I LOVE seeing how Destiny and Sargon have evolved in views and tone

[@Lucabran9093]

This conversation lowered my blood pressure It’s insane seeing two people in 2021 having a reasonable conversation and being able to comprehend both sides.

[@bganonimouse2754]

People will do whatever they need to, to attract a greater audience. KZbin has evolved. If youtube was the same as 2017 Sargon would still be going after feminists and easy SJW targets/

[@bgoodnow]

I’d say that Sargon’s tone has changed, but his views are still pretty gross! Just cause this is a chill convo, we shouldn’t turn the critical side of our brains off!

[@thenayancat8802]

@@bgoodnow Yeah this is insane lol, he's being very polite but effectively saying that women who have sex have debased themselves in some way. Ignoring the fact that the men complaining about how slutty women are also want to fuck when they're young! It's quite misogynistic even by MRA standards imo

[@TimbahOnToast]

Love how Sargon kept saying "I think the way these young men see it is..." when presenting incel opinions from his own head

[@bc9554]

Incel opinions must work then because they got him a wife and kid

[@redqwertyu]

Be specific what incel opinions do you mean. Sargon specifically went after incels saying they are whiny and entitled blaming women for their problems.

[@meh2972]

Watch the police interview with Alek Minassian for the actual incel opinions.

[@Jabrils]

dog, what in the hell is Sargon arguing on repeat...

[@SuperShadowmasterZ]

based ai viewpoint

[@imdW]

omg my favourite snack eating voice overing youtuber again

[@yyzx_6668]

he's just mad bc he doesnt get female attention

[@hughmungous3357]

He is talking about BLM. Everything is about race.

[@foraminutethere23]

@@yyzx_6668 he's married btw

[@elymasmoore2629]

I think a lot of people get mixed up whether or not someone is “rational“ or “not that bad” by whether the speaker’s tone was harsh and brash or calm and collected like Sargon was here. The problem with that is that Sargon is a civic nationalist, (civilizational duty for a woman to not sleep around) and (I’m assuming) a lot of these people would be disgusted if the same talking points came out of an incel who screamed about how women should be in the home and shouldn’t sleep around. It’s actually interesting how much tone matters and changes people’s perspectives, it’s like people don’t actually listen to the premises and conclusions but how those premises sound.

[@Mincheesy]

You hit the nail on the head. Literally what is occurring here. Sargon may not be yelling/super combative, but he's speaking crazy shit, and he has an entire viewable history of crazy shit he still believes/supports and hasn't changed on. The idea that he's "good faith" "rational" etc is literally all based on him just not being angry. I wish more people saw that.

[@PlayaGuitar]

You're completely right, however I prefer conversations to be done like this than screamed at each other over the smallest little detail that neither side will concede even though there are glaring issues with the argument as a whole. It would have been good to see more pushback on some things because obviously some things were taken for granted (like you mention, forcing women to be at home), but again, I'd rather the conversation be civil and stay away from useless personal attacks.

[@Mincheesy]

@@PlayaGuitar I would -typically- too, but when the persons arguments aren't substantive it's a bit ridiculous when civility is the case. Him letting stuff slide or being passive about it is what let it be chill. Previous convos he's had with sargon usually go in the direction you speak of because destiny didn't let him slide by with crazy prescriptions. Plus, it's not like the civility thing is a fault of the other speakers either. Destiny definitely has yelled over some passive people especially recently. Honestly I think the whole thing bugs me so much because Sargon and Lauren Southern are huge as fuck and have done a lot to add to the awfulness of the current political landscape. Seeing them approached so passively by destiny, who I thought cared the most about truth and butting conspiracy really fucks with me. These people are genuinely scum, and have more effect on the world/have had effect.

[@PlayaGuitar]

@@Mincheesy do you think destiny has a better chance of convincing Sargon fans that he's wrong by yelling at him or by offering another perspective in a kind way? I don't think you win people over by offending them, even if you're right.

[@Mincheesy]

@@PlayaGuitar see I accept that argument, BUT it feels like it's also making destiny fans swing towards acceptance of sargon/southerns, which is scary as fuck to me, and I imagine it could be aided by the lefty Arc shit. Plus destiny has won over people with aggressiveness/confidence to these individuals in the past. Ide even say I'm one of them who, with the way destiny used to debate, was heavily swung away from the right I was already teetering on.

[@barryhill2836]

I wish Destiny would have more conversations with Sargon. I'm pretty sure they'd agree on the drag queen topic a lot more now.

[@ChemicalXzibit]

I need a Destiny/Sargon podcast. They have good chemistry and are able to find common ground but can also stand their ground and disagree amicably.

[@Ultra_Light_Beam]

Dead on accurate.

[@wooww91619]

I haven’t heard the man in years, but the fact Sargon actually had an honest and productive discussion with you blows my mind… this was surprisingly easy listening lmfao

[@stopaskingforrealnames3853]

Ye'. Maybe sargon was rough a few years ago when I wasn't around, but nowadays he's pretty chill. Most people are attached to strawmans now'adays.

[@TheGIGACapitalist]

Promoting Gambling and Sargon! Morally neutral!

[@DANGER10101]

AMAZIN

[@johnconnor2572]

@@michaeljackson8390 Anyone that uses that many emojis is not to be trusted. I'm usually not one to asrcibe labels to people. But imma go ahead and call THOT or Bot

[@billieeisenhower406]

the "super capitalist" would be in favour for gambling, no?

[@nandi.handrews1502]

i think ive heard destiny say he doesn't think poker is bad because its not a pure chance games

[@johnconnor2572]

@@nandi.handrews1502 As bad as gambling can be for individuals and society as a whole as a libertarian I have to agree. If idiots willingly separate themselves from their money thats on them

[@BecomeCatholic]

First time I've genuinely enjoyed listening to Destiny talk to someone.

[@cavaliothorson7755]

Unpopular Opinion: I don't want to be in the bottom 10% of men, I'm cool with being a clean, self-improving, financially stable ordinary/average joe. I stay presentable but I'll never try to impress a woman.

[@narutofan4545]

It's werid seeing them get along

[@alex-qd6of]

Kind of boring.

[@KaptajnKaffe]

People can disagree and still be friendly.

[@L3monwedges]

Its almost as if Sargon is actually not far right and actually is just a moderate or maybe right of center liberal...

[@Bjjboxing]

@@L3monwedges You have to be joking

[@KaptajnKaffe]

@@L3monwedges and thus they stepped out of the cave to bathe in the sunshine of enlightenment 😁

[@ennuiii]

with the body count thing, I just want someone whose similar to me and has interest in similar experiences. like I want a girl into indie music and hiking just as much as I want a girl who has similar sexual desires to me.

[@Tespri]

The reason for body count is that it implies that she has no capability to restrict herself. Which means that she will end up cheating on you and can even have some STDs. This same applies to guys as well. The reason why social norms are more against women acting like that is because no one wants to raise another man's child.

[@tomtom0157]

@@Tespri this isn't true at all plus it's only/mostly women who get shamed for this shit and also "nobody wants to raise another mans child" but everybody wants to raise another woman's child? why is it so disgusting to raise another ones for men? i don't understand this stupid double standard

[@Tespri]

@@tomtom0157 No, I'm absolutely correct. People who study human behavior, history and even biology knows this for fact. It literally comes down to that no man wants to raise up another man's child. There is good evolutionary reasons for it. "why is it so disgusting to raise another ones for men?" Simple logic, every biological species and life forms seeks to reproduce, few exceptions are mentally ill humans. Raising another man's child while thinking that it's your own is evolutionary dead sentence for the guy. Thus from evolutionary standpoint guys benefit for not raising another man's child. It's not double standards since we aren't the same thus same rules don't apply. Also women only have breed with men they consider strongest/influential in their circles. Woman having breed with another man would demean the man and emasculate his self-worth. While men by their nature desire to have as many babies as possible thus having multiple wives or sex patterns is beneficial for them in evolutionary sense. Same time it's not as demeaning for his partner for same reason. Men seek to increase number of offsprings while women seek to only to chase the quality of mate and provider. Seems like you reported my previous comment so now it's hidden. Typical far left winger. Can't even be intellectually honest.

[@ernie.99]

@@Tespri cringe

[@Tespri]

@@ernie.99 Your avatar picture is cringe.

[@Hetsfesta]

This conversation was OK, but I do not understand why Sargon has to use so much morally loaded, demeaning and misogynistic language like calling women who are sexually loose “slags”. It just poisons so much of the message in an otherwise quite nuanced discussion.

[@StuninRub]

You're right, they should be called sluts.

[@yondaimesin]

Depends on your Moral standings concerning those things. If you find it Abhorrent to be sexually loose then you are going to use demeaning language. If you hold the opposite, you will empower them with your language. There ARE nuanced takes to the things he said, He just doesnt care about the optics in that area, since his audience generally holds conservative beliefs.

[@CM-qd3hh]

You ask why... but You probably know the answer.

[@CuZtuga]

@@StuninRub That's pretty cringe alrigtht

[@frisater96]

Because he’s a lunatic, and all his political positions are based on disgust. It’s very weird that Destiny is having a chill chat with this guy.

[@RogueMetaHere]

Didn't expect anything less from these 2. Such a civil conversation, and a great listen while doing chores.

[@axson8]

Sargon in the thumbnail just needs a monocle, a tophat and a speech bubble going "Mehehemehehe" and he will have achieved peak British.

[@tcritt]

@@Celedan And then racially abusing the players when they don't. Yep.

[@alton1682]

He's like a faux Toad of Toad Hall. Most of us would rather he would just disappear already.

[@PeakedInterest]

"women shouldn't be promiscuous because it makes them less desirable to men" It makes them less desirable to a certain type of man, and to be honest if that means there's less of those men having kids and continuing their arcaic world view then that's a good thing. The vast majority of men aren't so unbelievably insecure that they worry about who their partner has had sex with in the past.

[@ryanburdeaux]

yeah,no.

[@AudaciousBourgeois]

Who said it has to do with insecurity? Religious people still exist you know. And even still, if I’ve saved myself for my wife, then I would expect the same of her. It’s only fair.

[@JeffNeelzebub]

Heard that Coach Red Pill was arrested by Ukrainians for being a spy on behalf of Russia and remembered the beef between Sargon and Coach. Ah memories!

[@cocacraesh]

This is why I just cannot endorse the conservative/trad take on gender roles: Because at its core, and it's obvious from Sargon always fucking returning to that "sacred" nonsense, it is a prescription how to behave, whereas at the core of the progressive take on gender roles (even if we acknowledge that some people take deconstruction maybe too far), it's that people can do whatever they feel/think is right for them. That's why Sargon cannot just agree that trad lifestyles can be followed in a liberal society just like any other and be done with the conversation, because he HAS to prescribe his idea to everyone else.

[@andrewf8366]

Yeah, throughout this whole thing there was never a justification for remaining "pure." Why are these traitor men entitled to a woman at all?

[@aleczitzelberger8123]

Yeah, it was frustrating not to see Destiny challenge him on his double standard.

[@rhyspalmer58]

@Arwyn also I'm fairly certain that the average person would be happier in a LOVING committed relationship rather than just shagging everything that moves, and I mean both sexes btw

[@killer429]

@@rhyspalmer58 and part of being in a loving commited relationship is finding out what works best for you and your partner, and sometimes that doesn't look like a traditional relationship that Sargon would want basically the entirety of society to subject themselves to.

[@shyampadmanabhan4171]

But his prescription isn’t a call for mandate, just like he said at 1:17:00 He simply advocates the prescriptions because people will be happier that way, but ultimately people have to choose to change their lifestyles. That is the Classically Liberal view: there is a right answer to things, but it is up to you to follow it

[@matlee9832]

this debate is top tier love watching destiny debate ppl on his level just as much as people who arent.

[@xDDufiosy]

Remove women's obligation to carry a child and remove men's financial obligation to pay for a child.

[@richardvaldes3959]

End humanity?

[@dark91911]

@@richardvaldes3959 yes

[@ForeverMasterless]

@@richardvaldes3959 probably for the best

[@texteel]

@@richardvaldes3959 why would making it a non-obligation end humanity?

[@InfernoVor]

Yeah, the biggest problem is how people approach the issue. People usually view those sorts of things as important, or how it SHOULD be. So someone questioning them would come off as denying their view. It's also problematic like you said how people demonize each side.

[@mrvoltem9379]

It seems that personal reponsibility and honesty is lacking more and more in todays society, facing uncomfortable truth about onseself etc. Though the amount of vitriol online certainly isnt helping either. Worst thing is i dont know what i can do about it.

[@InfernoVor]

@@mrvoltem9379 I wouldn't say honesty is lacking, it's just morality is complicated. And people always take what they think correct as law essentially. Saying it isn't or changing that view would be in some cases people telling themselves they are bad. Especially depending how vocal they are about it and if they judged other people for it. They got on a ship and took off full speed assuming the ship to be impossible to sink.

[@mrvoltem9379]

@@InfernoVor yeah, thats true

[@annaphillips4288]

That is all insightful as f#@k my guys

[@GN0MEz]

I would kill for destiny to talk to the fresh and fit guys

[@DarkestKnightshade]

I'm glad they have aba and preach on a lot, but from at least their titles and the bits I've seen of their videos they don't seem very nuanced.

[@AudaciousBourgeois]

F&F and another Aba and Preach convo would be great.

[@neverbackdown1918]

@@AudaciousBourgeois lmao

[@amagicallaura]

"women marry up and men marry down" actually this depends on the culture. sargon is english & in england we tend to marry someone who earns about the same as us. "hypergamy" is not a natural or universal thing. also so weird to me he is obsessed with women's sexual purity but still married a woman with a kid...

[@scarlet8078]

That's true in the US, too. Virtually everyone marries someone similar age, economic status/ tax bracket, education level & race. There is a lot of data on this and once you read it, you realize how ridiculous most "hypergamy" discussions are. Some men seem to think that most women are trying to get pg by footballers. There may be a few high profile examples, but dramatic hypergamy like that is rare. Most women marry a man who earns slightly more simply bc women earn ~70% of what men do

[@edwardrichard8093]

The exception doesn't make the rule. Also just because she has a kid doesn't mean she was Wilding out. Regardless of that as he already said a majority of guys will more than happily bang the hot OF girls but they arnt going to marry them.

[@edwardrichard8093]

@@scarlet8078 can you link me those stats? Because I know those arnt true.

[@amagicallaura]

@@edwardrichard8093 lol so is there a set amount of guys a woman can fuck or is it case by case? this might shock you, but the vast majority of married men married women who had sex before. unless you are v young it's going to be a mission to find a virgin

[@crushinnihilism]

Hes not obsessed with purity?

[@jessiebunnyplay6119]

As a woman, I can agree with aspects of both arguments here. Obviously you want the right and choice to decide for yourself what to do with your body, image, etc. other's shouldn't tell you what to do, on the other hand however you still need to have some standards and enough respect for yourself to know what the best choices are, and to be able to look at yourself and be proud of where you've come from/how you've developed as a functioning person in society. Maybe there just needs to be a little more education for men and women in these areas. Men to encourage women to respect themselves and make respectiable choices, and for women to learn more about their own self-worth, that they are worthy to be someone deserving of real love and respect, not the fake kind you get from filters or sleeping around with so many men that you're practically an onlyfans girl. Learn from life, get the experiences you need in order to grow but don't go beyond those limits. Everyone is different and requires different lessons but there are still obvious parameters. -Also, I was almost married to one of those "hunched-over nerds." We used to play games together a lot, he got me into PC gaming. Unfortunately, we fell apart for different reasons, but my new bf is also a gamer lol. So we do exist, women who will date nerds and gamers. Then again, a bit of a nerd myself, so I guess it's fair lol. Different strokes for different folks. :)

[@smoqueed44]

Lol, of course your takeaway is "men have to do shit for women". Own your own shit. Jesus. Also, your marriage status doesn't mean much if you're a hunched over nerd yourself.

[@amirmirzaei3940]

how do you feel whene chat says SquadW?

[@ShiNijuuAKL]

I think the important part is to have realistic expectations, sometimes you can have your cake and eat it, sometimes you can't. I don't think a girl sleeping around with many men doesn't deserve to be loved and respected. But you should know that you will have a harder time finding out traditional "real love and respect". You should first know what you really value and make the correct sacrifices to maximise your desired outcome.

[@GG-vl9xq]

"Men to encourage women to respect themselves and make respectable choices..." I honestly thought you would continue with "and women to encourage men to respect themselves" but instead it was another thing on the women. This really bothers me. There aren't more women being promiscuous than men. Men even started being promiscuous before women because it was seen as "ok" for them. But it's still " and for women to learn more about self-worth" like it's only a women's issue. And here another thing: when someone's self-worth and self-respect isn't dependent on how many sexual partners they had, even if they had 50 sexual partners, they still have self-respect and self-worth. Just because for you it's something that weights a lot on their self-respect, doesn't mean it is for everyone.

[@CapeEniEer]

my main problem with promiscuity argument is that... no healthy human is naturally promiscuous, promiscuity is a result of childhood sexual trauma or an adulthood sexual trauma. Also Sargon's argument is cruel because according to him, if a woman has been a slut once then she is damaged goods and has no value forever, but a man is allowed to have been lazy and poor as long as he works hard to eventually become rich

[@zacroffs]

"... and she froze her eggs, and when she went to use them -" "wait WHAT!?"

[@s7d788]

creepy men latched onto that story like crazy

[@Kekktye]

Moving to the left and hearing Sargon years later is such a baffling thing to experience Really glad that he was incredibly reasonable though. I feel like conversations with like Vaush only paint him as unreasonable because of Vaush's own combative attitude

[@TheAwesomoe]

Haven't seen Sargon's content in so long. Last I checked he was still just talking about non-issues in "this week in stupid".

[@shreknocratus4682]

Vaush is a joke and an absolute grifter.

[@edd542]

I moved to the right and listened to destiny more which is weird. Don't ever watch Sargon's content either.

[@wooww91619]

I was surprised to hear Sargon being so civil and honest. I think it’s more him going with the times and recognizing that diplomacy works better than combativeness. It could be insidious without someone as able to throw back against his rhetoric as Destiny. But as someone who came of age through all the political polarization, this kind of measured dialogue is all I wanted when I was younger. I was an early destiny fan, and I think he had a lot of impact tbh

[@shadowmonk9672]

Not having ever been dragged too far into the left OR right, I think that both of these guys are very reasonable to listen to, hence why it was such a good conversation. If you actually feel that way about listening to Sargon talk you should check your own biases, you might be slipping a little too far into the left.

[@bryced7633]

Carl and Steve not Adam and Eve.

[@CharlieApples]

What counts as a “Vast Amount” of sexual partners, according to these guys: Women - 4 Men - ∞

[@Cloud_Seeker]

Apart from that males that have many partners are not exactly treated well as well. We have a word for those kind of men. They are called douchebags. Not exactly the kind of people like.

[@CharlieApples]

@@Cloud_Seeker What are you talking about? Men are _congratulated_ by other men for having many sexual partners.

[@Cloud_Seeker]

@@CharlieApples Then you clearly have not been around other men. There is a difference between being able to get many women, and sleeping around. You are just going of sterotypes now and painting all men with a board brush. I should almost call you sexist for it.

[@CharlieApples]

@@Cloud_Seeker you’re right, I’ve never been around other men, ever. I was born and raised on the mythical Whore Island, where only women (and I) live

[@Cloud_Seeker]

@@CharlieApples When you grow up, you will know what I say. You are a child that never been around men.

[@MMAGamblingTips]

Sargon’s take on CRP mean “scum“ and him a few points of goodwill from me.

[@justliving920]

Sargon has always had issues with the super far right retard types. I can't remember the exact particulars of the situation, but CRP went out and told a bunch of lies about Sargon a couple years back when he was in conflict with alt righters.

[@Tespri]

@@justliving920 What lot of people don't realize due political fanaticism is that classical liberals (they are actually right wingers) and actual fascists are not the same thing. For example Jordan Peterson is liberal but left in general likes to paint him as far right. Something happened in past 10-years where suddenly being liberal started to mean being neo-nazi. Left wing suddenly became overly radicalized.

[@opinionatedape5895]

Young women peak desirability: 18 years old. Men peak desirability: 50 years old.

[@TonyCox1351]

I’m shocked to hear the peak desirability of a young woman is young.

[@zacharychristy8928]

It seems like Carl's fundamental mistake is assuming that "purity" as a measure of a women is or should be on par with "success" as a man, and there's really just no reason for that. A man evaluating a partner on financial stability, career success or personality compatibility makes FAR more sense than "body count". The dude also keeps using this weird medieval LARPer language too like "civilational duty" or "what nature hath bestowed upon women" as though some divine force ordained that his point makes sense.

[@KingCrimeTime]

Financial stability and career success are typically traits women look for in men. Men are mostly visual and go for looks and purity. Purity in the sense that if they have a kid they want to be sure it's biologically theirs, also the women with less partners are less likely to cheat.(sure there are some exceptions, but the exception is not the rule)

[@zacharychristy8928]

@@KingCrimeTime That's an appeal to tradition. You gave a series of statements on what some men value, what I was asking for are reasons why fewer previous partners SHOULD be valued in society when therer are obvious better measure to use. Ive never seen any reputable evidenxe that having fewer previous partners makes you less likely to cheat. I faintly remember a dubious study cited by Lauren Southern, but that's about it. That sounds way more like a correlation than a causal relationship.

[@awddsa2923]

@@zacharychristy8928 I mean, I could give you a lengthy explanation since you seem so confused, but the reality is it doesn't fucking matter, because at the end of the day it's not about how you feel but about how the majority of men feel, and you have absolutely 0 right to push somebody into being with somebody they don't want to be with.

[@SupersaiyanChristian]

Late to the comments; don't care though. Having seen plenty of toxic discussions, this was a joy to listen to. Too many people want to draw lines and battle. This was two men having a discussion about a problem they may see, and the potential reasons for that. I have grown very cynical that we can ever most past our "camps" or "tribes", but this was very encouraging to my view on this. Thank you Destiny for your contribution to this.

[@The_MuffinGuy]

Coach redpill VS Ctv 😈

[@Xairos84]

His question of why men have these standards while also participating is a great one! I believe the reason is that men get to get-off to the modern women while not committing and it reinforces the mating strategy of males (to mate with as many women as they can), from a bio-essesntialist perspective. But when we apply the human idea of pair-bonding, then men are seeking paternity-verification so their resources are not wasted.

[@RextheRebel]

Very apt point. It teaches men they don't have to or need to commit to a vvoman. That it's acceptable to see them as nothing more than objects. I find it extremely backwards and regressive.

[@shrisiva4016]

@@RextheRebel So if you don't want to commit, you're automatically looking at women like objects? What a strange take. And no, you don't have to commit if you don't want to, I thought we agreed hyper conservative traditions of forced marriage was wrong? Women aren't owed relationships from men.

[@annaphillips4288]

​@@shrisiva4016 no one owes relationships to anyone 🤔. It's not gender specific.

[@micraan1579]

You really let him get away with a lot in this one

[@onlyeveryone2253]

I watched this live at KZbin and all the the comments bashed Sargon for saying dumb stuff

[@mechanomics2649]

Yeah this was a bit weird.

[@alex-qd6of]

Destiny hates leftists so much, he can't even bring himself to actually debate Sargon.

[@pablowall]

Like what? I'm only a third in and so far sargon is being totally domesticated, he's not said anything wrong yet. What do u have in mind? I'll complete the video Edit: I'm at the end now, what has sargon "gotten away with"? This has actually been great chat where they fed off each other and made their positions more precise. This will also likely drag some of sargons audience here, though I don't think destiny has been disingenuous in any way. Great talk.

[@onlyeveryone2253]

​@@alex-qd6of Destiny is literally challenging every point Sargon makes. wdym?

[@jacksmith4460]

Reduction in children per Household is very closely related to living standards, its simply, that in poorer area's/country's, more children are born because of child mortality. 6, 7 , 8 children families are a result of high mortality in children.

[@westingtyler1]

it's a bit frustrating that Destiny didn't point out how Sargon kept assuming his traditional views of reality are just human nature and should apply to everyone. Sargon saying "it seems reality is X" then just stating some ridiculous ancient conservative viewpoint. Then destiny is like "if you see things that way, the optimal behavior is X" instead of "dude, please justify WHY you see things that way, because I seriously doubt you can justify that." Destiny needed to keep saying "Yes, if you have YOUR views, but i'd argue thinking woman have some duty not to be sluts, is just a hangup you have that you need to get over." Destiny was awful nice during this discussion. Are his view counts down or something? weird.

[@etienne2315]

I kinda miss economics being part of this discussion, people do not just have less kids because of personal choices like chosing career over kids, but i think more so due to a lack of good paying jobs and affordable housing. If you can't afford kids you are not gonna have them, i am a lefty and i would love having kids with my fiancee but we can't have kids in our tiny appartment.

[@mrvoltem9379]

Yeah, finances are proparbly the reason many people arent having kids. But then again, many people live in circumstances where they could spare some luxuries and then in turn afford to have kids. Should we not encourage people that kids are more valuable than a new sports car? (In your case i hope you or your fiancee are able to get a promotion so you can fulfill that dream, best of luck with that)

[@alistar2590]

Meanwhile the poorest nations on earth have the highest birthrates. I think it's because westerners value their personal wealth way more than African or middle eastern nations.

[@imperfectious]

I love you both. Great discussion.

[@wileyreid5420]

Man why does sargon have to have such a calming voice???

[@Tespri]

You sound like homer complaining about how sexy flanders is.

[@wileyreid5420]

@@Tespri aye we all know Flanders is packing that heat

[@Timhttrsn]

I actually really like Sargon, it was sad he made such a weird tangent for a few years. I really hope to see him back, I think he's a very well-meaning person.

[@ChemicalTen]

Solid gold content lately

[@insertname5057]

Project the attributes in yourself that you want to find in your partner. It's just that simple

[@jse92]

Re: around 19 minutes. Sargon will say its our responsibility to continue the human race while saying that there isn't an urgency in tackling climate change. They both have the capability to wipe out the human race but he will only address one of them

[@CR33SIVE]

yeah because he doesn't believe that the climate change threat is an imminent danger.

[@erikshure360]

I thinking humans not reproducing is a more pressing issue, that said we do need to take care of the environment.

[@jse92]

@@erikshure360 it's pretty clear that climate change is gonna fuck us over in the next 100 years, humans aren't gonna stop pro-creating out of existence for like another 1000 smh

[@chi8514]

@@jse92 to you not him

[@windmaster118]

Okay with being single? Women as popping anti depressants like they’re M&Ms.

[@fungdark8270]

32:20 If an athlete has a history of bouncing from team to team and never sticking around, they will need a spotless record otherwise (no locker room or media drama) to be considered anything beyond a 1 year deal type of player.

[@GN0MEz]

based

[@Sprite_525]

The balance between them on the “promiscuity vs tradition” is virtue, cuz making women virgins is weird and archaic, but I know many men who are attracted to authentic pure hearted women. Character and warmth are beautiful. Promiscuity and tradition are optional, but both sides appreciate authenticity.

[@12abirato]

Sargon is… kind of weird. I just can’t imagine caring so much about women shaving their heads or whatever. This is not the society ending issue he thinks it is.

[@majdjinn5042]

It usually shows an affinity to ideologies by someone tastes and manner in dress.

[@mrvoltem9379]

Hes a father, he proparbly just looks at the problems in the dating scene and both wants to figure out what he should tell his own kids when they grow up and tries to give sensible advice to other young people. Nothing wrong with that, even if all his advice were to be wrong

[@alex-qd6of]

@@TheBarca1889 it's really not.

[@pitpride1220]

Good,reasonable conversation. Didn't change my opinion on Sargon's views. But it's nice to see that he's capable of good faith conversation. Without larping or normalizing nefarious characters.

[@TNTspaz]

This is him most of the time when he isn't dealing with extremist bread tubers from what I've seen. Why do you think he pretty much completely removed himself from those groups? It's not even worth the effort to interact with 99% of bread tube. I don't know how destiny can still mentally handle it. Think the only time sargon looks in on it is during the stitch podcasts that keep getting recommended to me alongside destiny videos

[@nik4546]

There's something appealing about the platonic chemistry that exists between Sargon and Destiny that draws me to their discussions. I really like them.

[@narva5440]

This

[@miketo201]

He has returned, Now kiss

[@Fendelfull]

It’s just.... mind blowing hearing these guys talk about the obligations of women. Hearing destiny in a Very charitable light, I’m shocked that he agreed to have this discussion within the framing set up by sargon. It’s truly juvenile, this whole set of assumptions that he seems to agree to as being true. First, there’s the subject of men not being attracted to women quite enough to inseminate them. What? I’m not even going to elaborate other than to point out that the truth of it hinges on this notion that men are more celibate than they used to be. And too celibate to have children. This has zero to do with beauty and zero basis in truth. Men aren’t giving up on sex. His initial statement, which occupied the entire debate, was also an enormous assumption based on no reality. It is a “given” that beauty standards among women are important for the “good of society”.... I wish this was a parody. Besides the first assumption being ridiculous, and reality demonstrating that men are happy to have sex with women of most levels of common comeliness (which covers almost all women), it supposed that a decrease of the human population would be a bad thing. I don’t know if these men are of the sort who can’t imagine a trend being different from a permanent change in demographics, or who can only imagine something as being “good” if it doesn’t track to the simplest of possible hypothetical reduction to an absurd. Even if there was a downward trend in population, only an idiot would conclude that one only needs to divide this deficit by the population in order to calculate the end of humanity. First of all, even if one did this, it would calculate out so far into the future that no cultural norms could possibly be imagined to be so similar to ours that this conversation would even seem vaguely relevant. Surely, if the population got so low that concern for the durability of the human race among any thinkers beyond these internet children became a real point of possibility, then SURELY, the people of the far future could come up with some solution to this inconceivable problem. Following an innate human urge is not a problem that has ever been tricky to solve. It’s like asking someone who has lost an impressive amount of weight how they will avoid wasting away to zero pounds at this rate. How could they possibly fix this weight loss problem? These guys seem to be having this conversation in earnest and in the spirit of how I might imagine humans might more reasonably discuss the topic at the point where the gene pool could hypothetically become so small as to jeopardize the species. That would mean a population of fewer than 500 humans, and probably fewer than that by this point in the future. We do not currently have an underpopulation problem. I’m sorry to break the news. We’d be fine with a tiny fraction of our population. Better, in fact. Finally, it seems a given that women aren’t adequately pressured to conform to men’s standards of beauty. I can t even begin to explain how upside down this absurd notion is, and if you really think this is true, there’s nothing that can be said to summon you back to the real world. Regardless of any stereotypical notions of feminist rejection of these standards, even the vast majority of very principled feminists, regardless of how they pretend to reject them (and this is an almost immeasurable minority anyway), the conformity to popular standards of beauty has, if anything, remained a pathologically oppressive force in society. Until such time that the average women’s magazine or teen magazine features obese models, and doesn’t make huge money marketing traditionally sexy clothing and makeup, then this is such a backwards understanding, it really doesn’t merit conversation. And yet, blah, blah, blah. It’s like some kind of alternate reality sci-fi with men discussing women from the point of view of a reality that is the opposite of ours. Destiny appears to be doing it in good faith. He’s wrong. Sargon might see a fat person promoted as healthy on his social media feed, but doesn’t notice the vast examples of the opposite that are maybe too common for him to even notice. It’s this odd exception that impresses on his mind and warps his view of reality to such a degree that he might as well have been brainwashed to the point of living in a rarified fantasyland of problems that don’t exist but validate for him his deep seated misogyny, which, sorry destiny, is so vividly on display here that any objective person of vaguely reasonable interest in truth can write him off as being on the most extreme end of the spectrum, and choosing not to treat this as objectively warped and pathological only makes those who pretend that it’s not such a sick extreme look like misogynists of a less principled kind. I don’t think of destiny as being spineless, but it’s hard not to see him as being unfittingly neutered here by this absurd lunatic. Sargon complementing you as “reasonable” is not a good thing. It’s a sign that you’ve been their bitch.

[@madmonkeys88]

I hope you can see past your blinders someday and listen to conversations like this with an open mind.

[@matasuki]

That was a surprisingly healthy discussion of the topic.

[@MSPintail]

These videos are so much better than the bickering drama ones imo, same as the one Vaush had with Kendon Fahr a few weeks ago. Refreshing, good conversations between two people on oppsite sides of the political spectrum.

[@leotn64]

way more boring than when people yell

[@aquaman106]

A bit too chill imo. I still have a lot of unanswered questions. I want to hear why being pure, having children and all that shit is so important or even morally right. They talk about self respect but why is having multiple partners inherently disrespecting yourself? Doesn’t that depend on your own personal subjective world view and morals? Isn’t the idea of purity just socially constructed and only means something because we as a society have given meaning to it? Why are biological children also inherently superior than adoptive children? Aren’t men’s fertility more in danger compared to women’s fertility according to some studies?

[@nenjabim3754]

Sargon seems like he's calmed down quite a bit over the past couple of years after going through political hellfire for awhile. Glad to see it. Love to see less bloodsport in Destiny's conversations.

[@finiteenergy7155]

Why is Sargon showing off his pasty grandma arms lol

[@Tespri]

I haven't seen any grandma with arms like that. But why show of? Simple, he has changed and is proud about positive change that he had gained since he started dieting and working out. Why being so hostile over someone being happy over their own life improvement?

[@finiteenergy7155]

@@Tespri because they’re gross and I don’t want to see them lol

[@Tespri]

@@finiteenergy7155 Then don't look at them? Funny how left wing is more than eager to body shame when it comes to their political opponents.

[@Tespri]

@A Friendly Reminder educated guess. Video about Sargon and Destiny. Either you're sargon's suscriber in which case you wouldn't be insulting him. Or you're far leftists.

[@Tespri]

@A Friendly Reminder Do you even comprehend what word educated guess means? Let's put it this way... The likelihood of you being far leftie is far higher than right winger. On basis of the channel, video and the comment you had made.

[@NathanExploshin]

Sargon said “feminist say sleep around as much as you can, get as fat as you can, get abortions” is a very aggressive way of saying “feminist believe no matter the amount of people you have slept with, no matter how much fat is on your body, no matter if you’ve had an abortion, you are still no less of a woman.” both say the same thing but different tones.

[@TJP5.0]

Although they were both on completely opposite angles, this was a great good faith debate

[@SomersBugtopia]

Now he's Coach Deadpill lmao

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

I agree with both sides here. I agree with sargon that there are very few interesting women in my social/work circles and the ones that are have been snatched up. Seems like many of them never developed a personality because they can hop on tinder and such for validation rather than actually doing something. Yet, I also agree with destiny in that I have no right to be upset at women for not meeting my standards. I need to either change my standards or understand that it might take time and effort. That's the missing link for the guys sargon is on about. they get jaded and give up way to fast, have unreasonable standards, and dont work on themselves enough.

[@andretarvok7122]

What does "work on yourself" mean? I hear that shit all the time and it honesty sounds like the most vague virtual signalling cookie cutter reply to anything I've ever herd. Think about it for a second, you can use that for just about anything. So does it really mean something?

[@ich3730]

@@andretarvok7122 yes because you can literally do ANYTHING to improve your life. for most of these people its just hard to start somewhere

[@shrisiva4016]

@@andretarvok7122 It's funny this advice is only given to men, apparently they have to go on this hero's journey to prove his worth to women, whereas there is no expectation of women to improve themselves for men. You can work as much as you want, but if you're not seen as attractive, you won't get a date. Attractive people who don't "work on themselves" can get dates and relationships far easier than unattractive people who do. Love isn't based on fairness, I feel like a lot of people use "just world fallacy" when talking about dating success for men. If a man complains for whatever reason about his struggles, people see it as "just" that he hasn't succeeded and think he must have deserved this, regardless of whether this is true or not. Plenty of great people never get to have a romantic relationship within thier lives and plenty of awful people have multiple. Dating success is not an indicator of morality. Which is why I hate it when people assume any guy struggling with dating must just have a terrible personality or his standards must be too high or whatever. A lot of success is down to circumstances, location and pure luck sometimes.

[@CM-qd3hh]

Sargon seems like a person, who is so immersed in The Online, that he doesn't see anything outside it. Subreddits are society, tweets are facts. Old man yelling at clouds.

[@majdjinn5042]

So immersed in the online he is barely on it and has a stricter schedule than what he use to.

[@Reza-hz1ce]

@@majdjinn5042 I mean... Destiny will end up like that if he does not delete his twitter

[@craigwallis5014]

Wean you main income comes from being a content creator I think it can be really easy for anyone to fall into the trap of becoming that person

[@majdjinn5042]

@@Reza-hz1ce Carl deleted his seems like a good idea but then Destiny would lose a source of content mining and naked exposures. Then again Carl has a team he pays, I don't know Destiny's set up

[@Reza-hz1ce]

@@craigwallis5014 yeah but it does not have to be like that for Destiny, there are plenty of source of discourse other than twitter. Most are more relevant, and less hysterical. Seriously twitter is messing with his brain

[@SigurTibbs]

oh man they showed him a Kevin Samuels clip.

[@jacksmith4460]

14:31 that's (1 of the reasons) why it is prevalent on social media, nihilism is very easy to wind up and fire at what ever manipulators choose

[@DrevorReal]

Did Sargon just mention furry conventions as an example where freedom might have gone a bit too far?

[@CR33SIVE]

@socially unacceptable it literally happened

[@erikshure360]

I hope so, that shit is cringe af -- especially when there are children involved.

[@DrevorReal]

@@erikshure360 the fuck is wrong with you? Obviously they don't let kids into the after hour bars.

[@mattsterling2970]

Nice chill discussion. Need more of these debates/talks with people of opposing viewpoints.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Sargon is a little bit too right for me, and destiny is a little too left for me, so I really enjoyed this conversation

[@cuteasxtreme]

I agree I feel like Destiny added a little needed politeness and is less quick to stereotype and they struck a nice balance here

[@TheButterAnvil]

@@cuteasxtreme completely agree. I view the left and right as yin and yang that temper each other. At least in a perfect world

[@Fenris86]

This was really interesting and pleasant to listen to.

[@jameslwjtoler]

46:55 I firmly believe you can trace a lot of the depression, hopelessness, and general lack of empathy in society directly with the rise of social media and technology in general. I really think technology has done tremendous things for us as a species, but it is also responsible for several of the mental and social problems we experience in society writ large today. To put it more succinctly, Facebook does not make me feel like I'm part of the community. Twitter, does not make me feel like I'm part of a community. They just make me feel more isolated in general.

[@waltanthony1988]

they just repeat the same thing over and over. Sargon just keeps making the same exact case over and over and Destiny has the same response. This should have been a ten minute talk

[@cuteasxtreme]

Sargon put it well. They’re refining their ideas, or maybe I’d say they’re ironing out the details to find common ground.

[@Bjjboxing]

So true and they are acting like this is a huge problem when in reality, it's not (women and dating). Tbf the internet, replacing IRL interaction is a problem tho, but they spend more time complaining about it than actually saying anything of substance

[@hypercortical7772]

I'm gonna need someone to (seriously) explain to me why people don't like women with a high body count. Like if you start dating a girl, why is it worse for her to have a count of 10 vs 2? I just can't relate to the feeling on the most basic level.

[@natethegreatest1000]

It’s this weird notion that they’ll be compared to other guys. It’s pure projection honestly, because they’ll compare the girl they’re currently sleeping with to other girls.

[@Xairos84]

In modern terms it probably is a comparison to other partners (perception is king, regardless of reality). In bio-essentialism terms, it's to ensure that if you wind up having kids the odds of it being the man's is increased. For most men, the biggest fear is raising a kid that you believe is yours but in truth is so other man's.

[@ukaszpoprawa2175]

Ok. I don't know about other people. in my case it's about having the same value for sex in a relationship. it's good to know that you and your partner have the same mindset about it. If it's just fun for someone or it is just a thing that you do with a person you love. Body count is just an indicator. I would choose a girl with 5 long term boyfriends. Than a girl who have 1 long term and then she had 2 one-night-stands that she didn't even remeber the names of these guys. they are diffrent emotion when you start fucking. With the first one you know that she treat this searious, and having sex means that she trust you, loves you, and have expectation of long term partner. (and hopefully you have the same value) When with the second one having sex means none of those things. Nothing wrong with both of them, but good realtionship is based on values like that and it's good when they match. Destiny would probably get along more with the second one.

[@Xairos84]

@@ukaszpoprawa2175 well stated

[@CR33SIVE]

its disgusting

[@tylerpedigo2938]

Great conversation

[@friendlypup5650]

This is two people who agree on the basics, but are playing tug of war with moral ideology

[@MrFram]

IE what politics should've been but never could be

[@Seaneey]

How is this dude still around. I'd hide from embarrassment if I was Sargon.

[@ZRockwell]

I've been out of the loop on him. What happened?

[@PurpleOkayTurtle]

@@ZRockwell he killed the British political party “UKIP” after being fielded as an MEP candidate

[@abandoned-mines-novascotia]

Nah. Sargon is simply a level-headed everyman, fighting for post-enlightenment western liberal values, at the end of the day. He's a good egg, with his head in the right place.

[@dwarvenminer3329]

@@abandoned-mines-novascotia Nice bait 10/10

[@Ultra_Light_Beam]

@@PurpleOkayTurtle you give him too much credit, he’s not that influential/important. That party fell apart of its own accord. Sargon was just a guy while it happened.

[@nickslavik3232]

Really enjoyed this conversation (definitely not an argument or debate battle). Thank you men.