Did God fight a Chaos Dragon at Creation?

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Күн бұрын

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@Sklarecrow 10 ай бұрын

I thank God for this man. May his family be blessed and have peace and comfort after his loss. And may they look forward to seeing him again one day. Bless this man and his family.

@cameron8679 10 ай бұрын

Amen to that man. May The Lord Thy God bless and keep him and comfort his family in times of despair and grief, and forevermore.

@compton8301 9 ай бұрын

He is with the Lord now.

@nozrep 10 ай бұрын

RIP Dr. Heiser and thank you Heiser team for continuing to post scholarly videos so that I can understand more about the Bible!

@theguyver4934 10 ай бұрын

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

@YaHsServent 10 ай бұрын

Guys, Salvation is Simple HalleluYAH “Praise ye YaH” YaH is The Heavenly Father YaH arrives via the TENT OF MEETING YaH was Who they Crucified for our sins YaH was Crucified on an Almond TREE - Ancient Semitic Cuneiform of Moshe (Moses) - Isa Scroll (The Original Isaiah) Isaiah 42:8 "I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me. Isaiah 45:5 I am YaH, and there is none else.

@bauboni 8 ай бұрын

@@theguyver4934 you don't understand the Gospel, study it and pray to God that you ever do.

@realitywins6457 10 ай бұрын

Here’s a relevant and helpful thought he said in one of his other lectures, that aligns with this lecture: “The Bible wasn’t written to us, but it was written for us.”

@jimyoung9262 10 ай бұрын

Exactly. Love your profile pic.

@traildude7538 9 ай бұрын

That's a fairly common statement among Old Testament scholars these days. And it should be stated for every Bible study!

@realitywins6457 8 ай бұрын

@@jimyoung9262 Thanks!

@catherinewilliams6384 10 ай бұрын

These messages are so enjoyable, thank you for posting.

@theguyver4934 10 ай бұрын

@redchilli233 10 ай бұрын

@@theguyver4934 Hope you know that Allah is not YHWH.

@mimialways22 10 ай бұрын

A biblical scholar and historian!!! This lecture was gold!! When the truth is revealed in a way that makes you understand why Jesus Christ says who he really is!! savior! Born on earth as a material aspect of our Heavenly Father in order to separate himself from the deity gods who infuriated as rulers and deliver us from the doom of the pagan deities who ruled this world and our sins.

@earlysda 10 ай бұрын

He put down the inspiration of the Bible in this talk.

@nozrep 10 ай бұрын

yes!

@YaHsServent 10 ай бұрын

@LiGhTbOrN77 10 ай бұрын

@@earlysdalol no he didnt

@earlysda 10 ай бұрын

@@LiGhTbOrN77N77, There was nothing here, not even "nothing" or "here" before Jesus spoke it all into existence in 6 days, then rested the 7th.

@nozrep 10 ай бұрын

polemics… fascinating! I just learned what polemics is! Yes I had heard the word but I didn’t really ever understand it. On a separate but related note, and in a completely fantasy type of way, I would like to believe that maybe JRR Tolkien used Psalms such as Psalm 74 to create some of his legendarium in his LoTR novels!

@YHWHLYN 10 ай бұрын

Love Dr Heiser! 🎉

@bencorley8687 10 ай бұрын

Heiser has been such a game changer for my time in the word.

@sallylabhart2844 10 ай бұрын

Took me almost a year before I could even look at his picture, just missed him so much

@nonainai 10 ай бұрын

@@CitizenPoeI laughed out loud at this, may his soul rest with The Lord of Hosts.

@dolly7639 10 ай бұрын

Still falling asleep to his podcast. Sigh... When I was so discouraged in grad school, after a lecture of his, he encouraged me like a big brother would, and wrote something nice in my book i gave him to autograph.

@randomname2366 10 ай бұрын

When I learned this from Dr Heiser and applied it to other confusing passages, I learned so much. Passages like these are all over scripture and many throughout church history have been led astray by bad but sincere attempts to solve these mysteries without knowing the cultural context. We truly live in an amazing time and hopefully the church will, in time, use these realities to read scripture correctly and reform to more accurately understand God’s word.

@earlysda 10 ай бұрын

He implied strongly that there was "chaos" here before God created the world. That is anti-biblical teaching.

@nathanelfamy4190 10 ай бұрын

@@earlysdayour like saying the existance of the serpent before the temptation is anti-biblical

@earlysda 10 ай бұрын

@@nathanelfamy4190nathan, no. Please reread if you are interested in understanding what you are responding to.

@YaHsServent 10 ай бұрын

@earlysda 10 ай бұрын

@@YaHsServentServent, please repent and turn from occultic worship. Every knee will bow to Jesus Christ.

@MichaelCotsenmoyer 8 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@DonExodus3 10 ай бұрын

Best ever? Yes. Liked and subscribed.

@candytripn 3 ай бұрын

Heiser has done such great work showing the amount of biblical stories that were taken from others.

@marvalice3455 10 ай бұрын

I want to believe the scientific origins include slaying a dragon

@spitfirered 10 ай бұрын

I Miss Dr. Michael S. Heiser, He Knew His History Of Truth!

@charliedontsurf334 10 ай бұрын

A great man has passed, but it’s up to us to continue to carry the torch. Fear God and Dreadnought.

@Dragoncurve 10 ай бұрын

Great stuff

@theguyver4934 10 ай бұрын

@methylmike 7 ай бұрын

the good dr was firing at a particularly high level for this lecture. can you tell us what it is? a conference or a class at some date?

@kozmicaos 10 ай бұрын

Amazing, as always.

@FromValkyrie 2 ай бұрын

I totally get this. In my culture, Yorùbá, the same thing happened when we adopted Christianity. We took all the chants, panegyrics and eulogies with which we previously praised the old gods, and ascribed them to the new one. As if to say, "Sir, I know we've been calling you god all these years, but we found a God who is bigger than you. So, we're gonna have to take all this stuff back, real quick." 😅😅😅 Even the musical instruments. The talking drum was for the gods. The bàtá drum, especially, was for Sango, the God of thunder. We went and took it back from him and began to beat it for Yahweh. If Sango is mad about it, let him go and challenge Yahweh. 😂 😂 😂

@MiguelDLewis 10 ай бұрын

7:27 Actually Psalm 74 aligns perfectly with Genesis 1. Tohu/tehom is the Hebrew word for the formless depths, mentioned in Genesis 1:2. It’s also the root word for Tannin, the Hebrew word for dragon/serpent, found in Psalm 74:13. The Assyrians referred to the dragon of chaos as Tiamat, similar to the original Hebrew word Tehomot. So there’s definitely a connection there. Psalm 74 wasn’t a usurpation of the dragon slayer archetype but a reclamation of it.

@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 9 сағат бұрын

Yes, and there is great utility in framing it in such a way(Jordan Peterson) tho more accurately that would be where/when he created it. "Darkness"/ the evil which was later found in "Satan" was actually a by product of creation. So in a very literal sense creation itself is what created the "chaos"

@Roger-r7s 10 ай бұрын

Some of this ancient near eastern cosmological creation stories and mythology, definitely form a cultural background, from which the biblical worldview and scriptures have sometimes borrowed but also refined and reconstructed, to correct what is seen to be the errors and distortions introduced by the gentile and pagan, idolatrous nations and peoples. Some of the deep existential cosmic origin and order themes, and archetypes of the collective unconscious use the fantastic and symbolic language and imagery of myth to give themselves an objective form, a container, a shape which they can manifest themselves. So these universal themes exist and are common to all these creation myths, and stories, both pagan and biblical. This does not mean that the biblical stories are just reworked versions of ancient mythology, nor does it mean that pagan mythology is speaking the same truth, but from a different viewpoint, but it does mean the relation of the biblical worldview, monotheistic culture and belief system, to the ancient polytheist, pantheist, animist worldviews and belief systems is more subtle and complex than one is all true and all the others, all false, even though there exists many points of disagreement and divergence. What we see instead of dogmatic assertions and denunciations is an interactive interplay and mutuality of influence, which has its own intriguing, sometimes idiosyncratic and unexpected, developmental dynamic.

@Winiret 4 ай бұрын

Abouts what year was this footage? he looks so young here.

@jeremy8715 7 ай бұрын

Any way to improve the quality?

@Gutslinger 10 ай бұрын

I've been watching some of his videos the last few days after discovering him maybe over a week ago. Often his Unseen Realms book has been mentioned, and I was thinking about ordering that book.. I did see old comments from people anticipating an Unseen Realms 2. Was that ever in the works? There is one thing he's mentioned that I had a hard time reconciling. He talked about the early Genesis passage of "Let Us create man in Our image." He claimed God was referring to the holy assembly/counsel when He said "Us". But every Christian I know claims that "Us" refers to the Trinity. Because angels are created beings that can't create.. So I don't know how I should sort that out, since those two claims seem to conflict with each other.

@nerychristian 10 ай бұрын

Didn't God tell Moses that whoever kills a man should be put to death, because man was created in the image of God?

@nerychristian 10 ай бұрын

is that reckoning? In Genesis 9:6 we read, “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.” (ESV)

@truthbebold4009 10 ай бұрын

I reject both of those options. God said to His Son, "Let Us create man in Our image..." In fact, I know of a good sermon revealing the parallels between Adam and Eve and the Father and Son. I don't see much value in Heiser's work so I make an effort to point others to better work. Peace

@DonExodus3 10 ай бұрын

The original audience and authors of Genesis were not trinitarians and knew of no such thing. That's the original meaning of the text. Some later interpreters have read 1 John and believe that it's describing the Trinity, and thus are applying a second "revealed" interpretation to the passage.

@Gutslinger 10 ай бұрын

@@DonExodus3 They did think of God in a plural sense though, did they not? For example, Genesis referring to God's spirit and him seemingly being in bodily form. Then with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, it talks about God calling down the fire brimstone from God in heaven.

@robbscott4 9 ай бұрын

Thank you

@michelleprull4105 10 ай бұрын

Kind of off topic but I have a question for whomever can help. I understand that gods are considered divine beings….. that being said, when people worshiped other gods like Baal was there ever actually a person or divine being that was Baal or is it stories and just people believing there was a god? Is there ever a human that was worshipped? If they are worshipping actual divine beings or “gods” is it a certain divine being that is real or is it deception from divine beings that give way to stories with names? So, are there actually other gods like Baal or is it just evil made up things?

@amymarie6724 10 ай бұрын

Not divine, but spiritual beings. They are worshipping fallen spiritual beings that rebelled against the divine spiritual being Yahweh. There is a specific distinction between the divine being Yahweh and other spiritual elohim who rebelled and became idols.

@suzanneflowers2230 10 ай бұрын

Check out his book, The Unseen Realm.

@jacknickelson8096 10 ай бұрын

@@user-el3sh1xh3t Marduk.

@marcusg6904 10 ай бұрын

⁠@@amymarie6724What scripture or scriptures state the “fallen spiritual beings “ rebelled against YHWH? Thank in advance

@michelleprull4105 10 ай бұрын

@@suzanneflowers2230 already read it.

@roybatty2544 10 ай бұрын

Thank you so very much for this. I'm eternally grateful to you and obviously for Dr Michael Heiser & his videos bcuz he's totally given us a bigger better understanding of God's Holy Bible. Please keep up the great work. Thanks again.

@r.l.stolba9050 10 ай бұрын

Miss you deeply, Mike. Thanks for pulling my head out of my tail.

@sergiolantigua5362 6 ай бұрын

The ironic thing is that there are certain verses in the OT that describe YHWH like a "dragon"...which adds to the content in this video making YHWH the most powerful of the beasts

@beauxgan874 10 ай бұрын

I miss Dr Heiser.

@theguyver4934 10 ай бұрын

@mariannedippenaar8488 7 ай бұрын

Very good

@renlamomtsopoe 7 ай бұрын

Heiser is a gem!

@no3396 10 ай бұрын

The man and his knowledge was and still is a gift from the Lord. God bless you, Dr. Heiser.

@j.m.4858 10 ай бұрын

Awesome 😎

@PresentsOfNature 3 ай бұрын

I believe that it's both ,smack talking about the other false gods and how it could have gone down. 🤷🏾‍♀️

@burningsodium 10 ай бұрын

In Psalm 74, destroying the dragon is talking about his judgment of the gods of Egypt when he flooded Pharaoh's army. Dividing rivers is talking about crossing the Jordan.

@DonExodus3 10 ай бұрын

It's also drawing a comparison to creation of the cosmos, hence the language relating to establishing the earth and its luminaries. Which is what Heiser is referring to.

@isaiasherrero7889 8 ай бұрын

@@DonExodus3exactly!

@chanelcreative2664 10 ай бұрын

I blessed cause subtitle in bahasa Indonesia.

@JF78Reality 6 ай бұрын

Nice

@aeh3253 6 ай бұрын

God didn't defeat a dragon at creation. He will at the end of the Bible.

@CineMooretal80 4 ай бұрын

You were there?

@dreamoftranscendence4415 4 ай бұрын

Jordan Peterson Bible lecture vibes.

@messiahmatrix 10 ай бұрын

Wow this stuff is so weighty and important to learn about it makes more sense to me than young earth creationists versus of the Bible.

@found.ernest 10 ай бұрын

❤

@zackzimmer7167 10 ай бұрын

Imagine speaking for Jeroboam…

@AmaaXventures 4 ай бұрын

The head of the Dragon lies just below Argentina further to the right looking from Google map. It seems to have one eye. - TRUE LAND of CREATION - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqrSonmNl7GYjrc

@BioStock08 2 ай бұрын

There are mythological dragons.

@dominiqueubersfeld2282 10 ай бұрын

Did God fight a Prosperity Gospel Preacher at Creation?

@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 9 сағат бұрын

I mean you legitimately could frame it that way, Jordan Peterson, and it uave actual biblically relevant meaning to it but no more accurately that is when he created it.

@shaccooper4828 10 ай бұрын

It’s mind blowing how someone can purportedly provide scholarly insight and casually make grave errors, and the sheepish crowd is as clueless as the speaker. It wasn’t Elijah who stated choose you this day. It was Joshua, the protege of Moses who lived in a totally different era before the Kingdom of Israel existed.

@threeqtrthrottle 10 ай бұрын

Joshua did make that statement verbatim, but Elijah made (effectually) the same statement regarding the miracle of fire being called down from heaven. 1 Kings 18:21 (ESV) says this: And Elijah came near to all the people and said, “How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him.” And the people did not answer him a word........Essentially this is an echo of the challenge brought by Joshua, and I would take the lifted verbiage as a clever comparison, rather than a gross oversight as stated. Having said that, what's your point? Not being combative, but you clearly shared this for a reason, yet I am unable to discern this reason.

@smak387 10 ай бұрын

The Devil knows the Bible too - so no extra credit for you. The point this speaker makes is well taken

@holyhyrax 10 ай бұрын

What is the difference between God fighting a dragon vs. angels having sex with humans? Why does Heiser insist one did not take place, while the other did? What is the metric here?

@DonExodus3 10 ай бұрын

He doesnt insist that angels had sex with people. Only that the Bible clearly states that they did. Just as the Bible describes Yahwey battling dragons.

@holyhyrax 10 ай бұрын

Correct, but if the Bible says it, doesn't it imply it happened? Heiser seems to think these rebellions actually happenened. @@DonExodus3

@DonExodus3 10 ай бұрын

@@holyhyrax Heiser typically considers these kinds of texts as polemic. Where the theological aspects of them are true and did happen, but the ancient near east aspects that involve mythological battles would be aspects of the contextual background. Which is to say that, the story isn't about God actually slaying a real fire-breathing dragon or angels actually having giant offspring like the book of Enoch. In ancient times, pagan kings of Babylon claimed themselves to be deities. They claimed themselves to be sons of God, and they took human wives as well. And Heiser covers some of this content with relation to pharoah in a similar way. And so, it's not as simple of a topic as just reading about God slaying a dragon and viewing it as scientifically true. Rather, these narratives were written in a theologically combative environment. Where the Isrealites were theologically setting the record straight. Yahwey is the one true God who controls the seasons and provides to His people. Yahwey is the one who is righteous and it's His rebellious family that is wrong, not the other way around. In pagan literature, the angels were good guys. And it was God who hated people. So, the isrealites are setting the record straight. But it's not a history textbook, nor is it about scientific identification if a multi headed sea dragon. Truth is in biblical theology, not science.

@DonExodus3 10 ай бұрын

@@holyhyrax and a similar case could be said for the sea. Obviously there isn't some multi-headed fire breathing dragon swimming around. However, in the Bible, Leviathan also personifies the deep. Which is something that is dangerous. People struggle to live in the ocean, there are mysterious animals like sharks that will kill you, you can't breathe in it. It's a dangerous place. And the Canaanite pantheon, they had gods that represented the sea. So the narrative of Yahweh defeating the sea, it's both theological in the sense that God is greater than pagan deities, but there's still a real component to it as well. Simply asking the question of "did it happen" really doesn't get into the nuance necessary to understand the historical context.

@holyhyrax 10 ай бұрын

@@DonExodus3 So would you say that Heiser would accept certain stories in Genesis to not have happened? The watcher story? That particular rebellion is something he talks alot about.

@ChrisMusante 10 ай бұрын

😔

@tinahale9252 4 ай бұрын

I think about him having deep conversations with Jesus and the apostles in heaven. Hes one of few that I've had these thoughts of

@fencefriend 2 ай бұрын

Heizer's claimed to be an "scientific expert" regarding Sumerian Script and stated categorically on many occasions "the Sumerians NEVER spoke of off world extra terrestrial beings" ...unfortunately for "expert Heizer" Mauro Biglino supplied a tablet translated by the most erudite Sumeriologists living that states " Enlil had his heavenly abode on Nibiru, a planet in the heavens privy of vegetation."

@ceciladams4097 7 күн бұрын

Sad, made up stories, there’s no baal literature or pagan writings.

@earlysda 10 ай бұрын

No, God did NOT fight a chaos dragon at creation! This speaker is contradicting the Holy Bible near the 8:00 mark when he strongly implies that natural forces were in play before God started his creation in Genesis 1. He is also making the classic error of so-called "scholars" when he says around the 4:20 mark that the Bible authors were borrowing from the pagan religions around them and turning the narrative. . The facts are that the entire Holy Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. . Let's remember these inspired words of caution: 1Corinthians 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

@Heather-xz3eo 10 ай бұрын

According only to you

@dahmc59 10 ай бұрын

God never had to fight anybody when you are omnipotent omniscient and ever present nobody has a chance to stand up against that the Bible says that God even looked everywhere he could find to see if there was anybody that compared with him and there was none let me repeat that there was none he is the almighty he doesn't have to fight to keep his position

@klar7946 10 ай бұрын

20 minutes to point out the obvious. Really, the waffle in endless.

@Heather-xz3eo 10 ай бұрын

No one was holding you here …. you were free to leave after 10 seconds

@klar7946 10 ай бұрын

@@Heather-xz3eo kept hoping for enlightenment. Woe is me....

@threeqtrthrottle 10 ай бұрын

@@klar7946 It's a 10 minute video...

@klar7946 10 ай бұрын

@@threeqtrthrottle felt like 20

@topekabill1444 6 ай бұрын

Mike is very good at spinning a hypothesis, then fleshing it out as though it is fact. Read the word for yourself.

@TAEYYO 5 ай бұрын

"Read the word for yourself." There's no one who would agree more with that than Heiser.

@topekabill1444 5 ай бұрын

@@TAEYYO He is spot on at times and mostly spot off. He simply adds his thoughts to scripture as if it were scripture. I would give you the advice you want to give me.

@TAEYYO 5 ай бұрын

@@topekabill1444 I wasn't giving advice, and don't plan on it.

@topekabill1444 5 ай бұрын

@@TAEYYO 🏴

@cosmologium 10 ай бұрын

Except I do believe Yahweh defeated a seven-headed dragon before Creation. Rev 12 calls it Satan.

@DonExodus3 10 ай бұрын

Revelation comes after creation. Not before.

@chuckfriebe843 2 ай бұрын

What’s the difference between “fighting a chaos dragon” and “speaking to a serpent”? It’s all ridiculous.

@RockyTop85 5 ай бұрын

Coming from a man who has really bad theology…

@rogerweir1772 10 ай бұрын

Yes Egypt was the dragon! :)

@jesuschristbiblebiblestudy 10 ай бұрын

The Bible does not tell us. Amen.

@JohnMackeyIII 10 ай бұрын

God will only defeat His creation! So it won’t be much of a fight.😂😂 There is nothing that is that wasn’t made, and all that was made was made by the Word!

@anchorpoint5871 2 ай бұрын

Yahweh was one god among many fighting for territories and power, the bible translator made it one unique god instead of many, even angels described in today churches are completely wrong depiction, the real angels of the bible were more like monsters ...so many lies in the bible..

@therealkillerb7643 10 ай бұрын

The problem with Dr. Heiser's interpretation is that one has Biblical writers lying to make a theological/polemical point. There were no real dragons at the creation, but they still claim YHVH defeated them to make some apologetical point against Mesopotamian religion. So they lied, they lied for God. But it's OK for them to have lied, somehow because that was their culture?

@stormchaser9738 10 ай бұрын

That’s a super black and white way to think about it. Using a poetic image where you personify chaos isn’t the same as lying…it’s poetry. The type of truth we expect to find depends on genre. In Hebrew poetry we expect something true theologically to be taught even if the imagery used is not literal. (EG: YHVH does not literally walk on a sapphire dome in the sky and empty storehouses of rain and snow. It’s an image used for teaching the truth that YHVH governs the weather.)

@The.Tamayo 10 ай бұрын

I bet that Dr. Heiser knows a little more than you.

@mikesarno7973 10 ай бұрын

Is the newspaper lying when it lists sunrise and sunset times? We know the Earth's rotation causes that apparent motion in the sky. It's metaphorical language that serves a purpose and is easily understood.

@therealkillerb7643 10 ай бұрын

@@The.Tamayo And I bet that I know a little more than you... at least in how the academy works and how it influences people, especially Christians.

@T4nkcommander 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, I'm inclined to disagree with his point here for that reason. A number of prominent scholars have described the "chaos era" briefly mentioned in the start of Genesis, so when tied in with 1) the existence of these spirits (that God has already defeated in the war sense) 2) and so many other mythologies describing the Most High warring against the Chaos dragon[s] (which again, still exist as threshold guardians) it makes more sense that they were not making things up and that historically happened. I love Dr. Heiser but for as much work as he's done coming up with the Divine Council line of thinking, he's still very reserved on a lot of points he wagered were very controversial .

@isoldemaputzen8414 10 ай бұрын

🤍💡🤍

@georgekantstandu4501 10 ай бұрын

God is a abusive spouse. I love you, whack....I love you, whack......If you don't love me you get another whack.

@Heather-xz3eo 10 ай бұрын

🤡

@nonainai 10 ай бұрын

🤡 🤡

@davidcrane6593 10 ай бұрын

Mr fables....

@theguyver4934 10 ай бұрын

@cynthiaerickson3646 10 ай бұрын

Vegans?explain the eating of fish they ate,lamb consumed at passover they ate then

@nonainai 10 ай бұрын

@@cynthiaerickson3646Cynthia he cannot explain such claims, and their authentic biblical rebuttals. Jesus ate meat, drank wine (wasn’t drunk) so it doesn’t take away from Christs Divinity. Islam is a false religion concocted by a Demon, Fallen Angel, like Paul said.

@theguyver4934 10 ай бұрын

@@cynthiaerickson3646 Okay i may be wrong about jesus and his apostles being vegetarians but i'm 100% right about the trinity, atonement, original sin & hell keep in mind i'm not saying that christianity is false or that the bible is corrupted\changed far from it but i do think that it's misinterpreted which is why it needs to be re read in it's original hebrew\aramaic understanding Yahweh\Alaha\Allah bless you and bless true christianity