Did Ned Stark let Ser Arthur Dayne live in the Books? 😳

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

The Daynes honoured Ned because he returned their family heirloom, they understand Ser Arthur did his duty protecting the royal household, so they bear no grudge

[@janezkette3901]

I guess only thing that is true in this video lol.

[@Vinzie777]

Exactly this.

[@mrsqu8688]

This is my first time hearing this theory, but it could be possible that Ned Stark disarmed him, and then banished him so he could be free of the white cloak bringing honor to his household’s name rather he surrender betray his oath. As Ned is a man “ capable” of mercy it makes sense.

[@josephlittle1752]

They honored Ned because he let Ashara disappear to live with Howland Reed.

[@Expired_Antidote]

@@josephlittle1752damn I’ve been holding for Jon being ashara’s boy or her joining the faceless men ;)

[@234zuscoutjango9]

Dawn is not a valyrian steel blade, it was forged from a meteor

[@nickthegreat9434]

Exactly, imo cooler than a one thousandth valyrian blade

[@tylersmith3139]

​@@nickthegreat9434 I mean meteorite swords are always peak cool, but blood and dragon fire magic longswords are also cool as well. Not to mention Dawn is basically has all the properties of a Valyrian steel blade. Like it is eerily similar to the point that some speculate that it is lightbringer(which also could have been made in a similar way to how Valyrian strel blades are made given the Blood sacrifice and all that).

[@hansofaxalia]

I’m fairly sure he knows that if he has a Thrones KZbin channel

[@bananaforscale1283]

How do you know valyrian swords aren't made from meteors?

[@halbeliebe]

Well... Theoretically they might be, but that doesn't change the fact Dawn was not made from valyrian steel as indicated by its color and history.

[@Alachas1985]

"Did you know, in the books, I'm just making all this shit up?"

[@HvlePerson]

yeah dude like wtf did these people actually read the book? in the books literally says like 10 times that ned kill arthur dayne and that mance rayder was a crow like wtf are these bs theories

[@TheMasterblah]

Did you know? In the books Dawn is a Valyrian Steel sword? This guy must be reading different books.

[@ddddddd1925]

Wait, so this youtuber is BS? Then Imma have to unsubscribe then... I'd love to read the books but I can't afford them. I'm from a third world country, so yeah.

[@HvlePerson]

@@ddddddd1925 yeah sadly a lot of youtubers use theories for content wich isn't bad but the when they post something too stupid like this. A clear example it's the cannibal dragón of fire and blood it's literally metioned 4 times like a scavenger who eats little dragons and eggs and it's a black dragon who nobody know it's age but it was seen for the old king so 70+ years but if you find on youtube they gonna say it's more big than balerion and that's is the biggest bs

[@justinmichel1840]

Lmaooooo

[@Boooozle]

"A wildling like Mance should have no experience eoth a greatsword" bro he's from the south side of the wall

[@Jeremiahfink36521]

He was born a wilding in the books per Selyse Florent so this theory is unlikely

[@davidscott9097]

He used to be a man on the watch

[@Cardan011]

@@Jeremiahfink36521he was a crow first before becoming wildling … if you gonna refer to the book it would serve you to actually read it

[@BloodFangRogue1]

Even in the books he's from the nights watch

[@pitrson666]

​@@Jeremiahfink36521mance himself said he was a crow, he was one in both the books and the show

[@FrankLewis040]

No way in hell is Tormund anything but a wildling. He'd kill you for suggesting this.

[@Dean89420]

Agreed. Big T was never a kneeler

[@wyllmclaughlin5127]

"free folk"

[@nano7236]

Gerold hightower could be oswell kettleblack no tormund

[@TheRoyalWe762]

if only you knew how wrong you are.

[@TheRoyalWe762]

@@Dean89420 incorrect

[@Hidalgoakawatcher]

If I remember correctly, Mance was the son of a crow and a wildling, raised as a crow till he deserted. Some of these theories are getting ridiculous

[@anthraxinyourmailbox9550]

The books and the show are different. And he might be lying

[@michaeleaverly7943]

Also that’s what Mance says doesn’t mean it’s true. George loves using the unreliable narrator

[@thelastbrickbender2139]

@@anthraxinyourmailbox9550yeah except it’s not just him we hear it from, this theory it utterly insane

[@michaeleaverly7943]

@@thelastbrickbender2139 so i guess it’s not possible for Mance to tell a story word of mouth gets that story passed around. What’s interesting is that the wildlings don’t have the same version Mance tells the nights watch. Osha even says what does Mance know of the real north.

[@MrSwanus]

If you really look into it. it is pretty plausible. The order of the Green Hand is a great in depth analysis of the books. If it is true That’s why G. RR Martin has been writing the end for 15years.

[@kaihiggins725]

The tormund theory is just ridiculous

[@JDRants]

That’s what I was thinking, this is all over the place

[@noahadams8305]

So it’s actually not as crazy as you’d think. I’ve looked into this one and there are a sizable chunk of statements Tormund makes that are super “proper” and every time he does it he follows it up with a super over the top tormund line. At one point he jokingly asks Jon if he’s hiding a specific quill and ink in his pocket to send a raven to mance, then really quickly pivots to making a joke. Not saying I completely by it but there’s actually more evidence than you’d think

[@landendelormier7954]

if you only go off book Tormund its not that crazy. i don't believe its true but theres for sure that possibility and it would make sense

[@kwisatzhaderach9087]

Ikr no way

[@jessicaellison2573]

This theory isn't that all over the place for just book readers.. it makes s nsw Ned wouldn't even fight if king aerys already died and if rhagar didn't fall at the trident.. nes definitely let them go north. And only north if they don't intend to bend the knee to Robert.

[@ts25679]

You mean "minimal effort", minimal ease suggests it was a great effort.

[@jacobanderson6767]

Sir Arthur Dayne’s family understands war and that he’s a knight serving as kings guard which means it’s a possibility that he might die protecting the king or in battle. So when Ned kills him they don’t hold a grudge as they knew that being killed in combat was a possible outcome for Arthur. They respected Ned for bringing the family heirloom back to them which is why they named their next heir Ned.

[@yosvanisramos]

Also, the name is Edric, not eddard, this theory is bs

[@Fictionfactory555]

Sir Arthur Dane has way too much honor to be mance and he would never allow people under his command to do what the Wildlings do to the innocent villagers and he knows how to use a great sword because he used to be a member of the Knights watch

[@noodles6390]

Exactly ... he would never run from the fight ... neither would Ned be able to beat him.

[@ALBERTOtheExplora]

Eh.. pillaging doesn't go against the chivalric code of honor if it is done in the name of one's lord or king, or if necessary.

[@SixFailuresThenFatherhood]

If Mance Rayder was Arthur Dayne, Stannis will recognize him.

[@fellino8049]

Not only Stannis, most knight who are loyalist to Targaryen would recognize him. Arthur Dayne was so famous, ain't no way nobody knows his face.

[@Hibiki_vtuber]

Or Ned Stark when he went to Winterfell lol

[@toaleydanza14]

@@fellino8049his name was famous, people didn’t have newspapers lol it’s quite likely unless they shared a meal or were in the kings court and saw him under his helmet they wouldn’t know who he was based on appearence

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

@@toaleydanza14Stannis had been in the Kings court to see him though.

[@PoutingScout]

@@mysteryjunkie9808he already gave a retort with the helmet line. Imagine recognizing an aging man from 20 years ago who you saw once for a dinner

[@optimusslime6240]

If they refer to Dawn as Valyrian Steel, don’t take anything they say seriously 😂

[@MP-et1eu]

If they also don’t mention Mance wasn’t born a wildling don’t take what they say seriously lol

[@BassBrigade2012]

@@MP-et1eu Right, how would a nights watch ranger not now how to use a longsword... is this just an AI channel spitting out mixed up theories?

[@barrybarryman7297]

Lol you do know a fat bloke made all this up in his bedroom

[@daveski7]

​@BassBrigade2012 probably someone turning dumb, down voted reddit posts from years ago in to yourube shorts. It's an Asoif content mill pretty much

[@biskwitkentang7778]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂❤

[@Will-gg1zr]

Dawn wasn’t a Valyrian steel sword…

[@allenm.355]

Or a great sword unless the show used wrong sword size

[@SetsunaKai5]

@@allenm.355 The show used the wrong size. It's a greatsword in the books,

[@darriuscole8544]

​@@SetsunaKai5 - Wasn't Ice a greatsword, or was Ice larger than an ordinary greatsword?

[@henryspear3399]

@@darriuscole8544dawn is made of a much lighter material than Ice was as the metal from the meteor is lighter than Valyrian steel so it could still be wielded with relative ease compared to Ice

[@stevenkunkle3857]

​@@darriuscole8544ice was a two hand great sword iirc

[@michaeldrake798]

1) Mance was a brother of the Nights Watch. He wasn’t born a wildling. He had a master-of-arms to train him 2) The boys name is Edric as opposed to Eddard. It’s a loose connection. “Ned” could just be a nickname in-universe for any “Ed” name. 3) Dayne was one of the best known knights in the Seven Kingdoms during his time. Eventually, someone would have made the connection. 4) The Dayne’s sword was made of meteor not Valyrian steel.

[@JamesMerlaut]

Theory: Mance is Ser Arthur Dayne. Mance background: Has been in the nights watch since he was a child. Theory: I'm going to pretend I didn't see that... haha

[@jesusalejandrogalavizherre3775]

Dawn is not a valyrian steel sword.

[@ALY-xc7fl]

Nah it’s way cooler. Literal fucking smithed meteor fragments

[@UnstableEcho]

Mance wasn't always a wildling though. He was a man of the knights watch.

[@jacobfoster9185]

RIGHT 😂 SHOCKED THAT ISN'T BLOWN UP IN THE SECTION

[@DraconimLt]

so? Normal men are not taught the Greatsword, only Nobles/Knights or men at arms who show the strength and skill for it.

[@UnstableEcho]

@DraconimLt Men of the Nights Watch train daily. And Mance was raised by the Nights Watch, so he would have been training daily since he was old enough to hold a sword.

[@jacobfoster9185]

@DraconimLt in the 7 kingdoms ? I assume so due to George's proclivity for mirroring our historical societal hiarchy and his love for that particular time. A sword in general, nevermind a great sword would be so vastly out of reach financially outside of the nobility that it's use being taught to anyone below that cast level in society would be unheard of...as well as potentially illegal for the instructor and students. The nobility didn't even give their conscripted soldiers swords to use in battle let alone hire a master of arms to teach their soldiers. It's important to remember that a standing army was a very late occurrence and sporatic. Rome was without one for a large part of it's history and after the fall the money, knowledge and materials were not readily available to the vast majority of people. Even the nobility.

[@jacobfoster9185]

@DraconimLt the majority....the vast majority of soldiers were conscripts. Who were usually farmers and craftsmen, etc, for the majority of their lives and wars were even halted so that they could go back home to harvest and seed, etc, before coming back to war. Aside from the prohibitive cost of arming and training "normal" men... there was also a rather high level of distrust in the peasants by the nobility. To be fair, they did tend to kill their kings and queens amongst the other nobility on a rather frequent schedule. So arming and training them to do anything other than stand in line with long, sharp sticks to break the armored calvary charge kinda seemed self-defeating. I hope that you and those you care for are happy, healthy, and safe. Semper Fidelis P.S. I apologize for any words that are out of context or poor punctuation and misspellings. I lost my hand in Afghanistan, so now I dictate rather than type, and the program seems to believe that because I'm of italian decent that I must have a speech impediment like Rocky.

[@veruspatri]

Mance Rayder was a Free Folk orphan child adopted and raised by The Nights Watch. He deserted several years before the books started. He got injured and separated on a ranging, where a Free Folk woman, took him in, helped him heal, and fixed his torn cloak using a red thread. When he made it back to the Wall, the Watch ordered him remove the red thread, so he deserted that very night, to be free of such restraints. He's proficient in the use of a swords, because he was raised by an order of warriors, and became one himself, for decades of his life. He's simply a tough son of a b****.

[@krokodilgena637]

best comment

[@jmeds94]

Could he not have been born as a commoner south of the Wall? That black and red combo sure does allude to House Targaryen…

[@Lolpy.]

@@jmeds94 Why does every theory have to allude to a secret Targaryen? “Tyrion is a Targaryen! Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens! Meera is a Targaryen! Quaithe is a Targaryen! Hot Pie is a Targaryen!”

[@jmeds94]

@@Lolpy. Well that kind of criticism ignores the idea that there is a narrative weight that comes with secret Targaryens being a recurring theme rather than it being JUST Jon. If it’s a recurring thing it adds a touch of poetic destiny to these events. It makes the entire ASOIAF story an opera about “The Last of the Targaryens” and what happened to them at the end of their dynasty. This is a telling of historical events and if all these family members were to converge together to fulfill prophecy, that’s a pretty wild “true” story to be told. It also diminishes the royalty of House Targaryen, it allows them to be seen as just everyday people. Which is a big theme, nobles vs smallfolk, we’re all the same. The living Targaryens at the start- Bloodraven Maester Aemon Viserys Daenerys Jon Aegon (Blackfyre) Melisandre Mance Mance’s son And possibly… Jaime Cersei Joffrey Myrcella Tommen Darkstar (don’t ask me how, it’s just a feeling that could be completely off) Not Tyrion. I used to think so but I think that would diminish the poetry between him and Tywin.

[@DraconimLt]

so? Normal men are not taught the Greatsword, only Nobles/Knights or men at arms who show the strength and skill for it.

[@jacobhoff5070]

Neds honor got his enemies women to name babies after him. Chad lvl honor

[@Speb101]

Yeah man nobody hates Ned, even Jaime someone who insults him often clearly respects his honor and was hurt when Ned denounced him

[@Inoffensive_name]

He definitely did not "humiliate" Jon. They had an even fight and Jon was like "Damn Rattlebones hits harder than I thought" at the end. Thats all.

[@idiotnostalgia5167]

Not every single character has to have a secret identity ffs

[@arbiter8246]

I’m Rey ..

[@idiotnostalgia5167]

@@arbiter8246 😂😂😂

[@benoneill4805]

they do for channels like this to keep content coming. otherwise they would have no videos to make after the first few years of the channel being made.😂

[@Essencealex17]

We found the triggered people

[@samo8565]

Einhorn is finkle! Finkle is Einhorn!

[@checkm8964]

Considering Arthur Dayne would have Valyrian purple eyes, which is an EXTREMELY distinctive trait, I'm sure Jon would've picked up on that and atleast deduced that Mance was from Essos or distantly Valyrian. Yall I think Mance is just A Dude

[@jamesroddy135]

His eye color is never mentioned in the books. Purple eyes would probably be mentioned.

[@colinquinn8173]

He’s the king beyond the wall

[@tmad9129]

@@jamesroddy135but Ashara, Edric and Darkstar do so it would make sense to assume Arthur did as well

[@jamesroddy135]

Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups

[@whiskybravo4648]

He’s just a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.

[@Snoopy_Keep_it_Real]

Isn't Mance Rayder a crow could the use of the sword come from that

[@hawk66100]

Yes. He is a former Nights watchman.

[@mizuyuki9008]

​@@thedoctor3264Arthur Dayne seemed to loyal to his "Prince" to ever serve anyone after him, furthermore no knight or warrior would ever managed to capture him alive.

[@mizuyuki9008]

@@thedoctor3264 No, but in the books it was taked about how close they seemed especially the chapter about the Tourney of Harrenhal

[@seethe313]

@@mizuyuki9008 The books also mention he and Ashara quite a bit. It wouldn't be surprising to me if both were in fact alive.

[@mizuyuki9008]

@@seethe313 Arthur is surely dead or is but very unlikely hiding to protect something or someone on Rhaegar's order. About Ashara we don't really know as the only character that talk about is her nephew and son of the current Lord Dayne, also older brother of both Arthur and Ashara, but I don't see why her own family would lie about it, so I believe she is dead

[@johnbrauker449]

The author of this piece seems unaware that we already knew Mance wasn’t raised as a wildling. He was a defector from the knight’s watch, so he would have grown up south of the wall.

[@nikssu]

As soon as Arthur joined the kingsguard he was nothing to his house anymore. You oive and die for your king, not your house. What Ned did was an immense display of honor.

[@grimsgraveyard3598]

They honored him because he returned the sword which was a family relic more important than any single member of their house.

[@TiaguinhoMu]

In the show, Mance Rayder last words are the same as Arthur Dayne in the flashback from Bran: "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come"...

[@IamJustaSimpleMan]

​@@TiaguinhoMuIs there any particular reason you copypasted the exact same comment under so many other comments?

[@Essencealex17]

Yeah sure he killed their son and drove their daughter too suicide but hey he at least brought the sword back so let's just name our boy after the guy 😂

[@blondymonk1535]

​@@Essencealex17 Learn how how to use They're, their and there pls.

[@Essencealex17]

@@blondymonk1535 why thank you

[@emperorreign6154]

Mance wasn’t a wildling though, he’ll have had extensive combat experience in his time before he defected from the watch to the wildlings.

[@JackCarlisleOfficial]

Wrong! His mother was a wildling and his father was a night's watchman

[@mrglowinthedark498]

He also grew up with and trained with Quorin halfhand so I'm assuming he'd have been pretty good

[@pitrson666]

​@@JackCarlisleOfficialand he was raised as a nights watch brother so hes less of a wildling than a crow

[@wredwraith]

Rahaegar was considering deposing his father, and his father murdered Ned's father and brother. Arthur was best friends with Rhaegar whose lover was Neds's sister, and Ned was in love with Arthur's sister. I feel like they had a lot to talk about

[@CrazyWork25]

Appreciate that you credit the artists, thats awesome.

[@TiaguinhoMu]

In the show, Mance Rayder last words are the same as Arthur Dayne in the flashback from Bran: "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come"...

[@Platerpus7]

The show is a joke

[@henrybilsland1035]

Well if we’re using the show as evidence, Arthur dies in the show

[@joshuawade5289]

​@@henrybilsland1035yep. 100% stabbed through the jugular and slashed across the chest just for good measure. This theory is awesome to think about but wildly untrue

[@fixmix9857]

Mance was a crow not a born wilding and dawn is not a valyrian steel its a meteorite.

[@sushmitaraodesaraju6330]

Mance was born half-wildling. His father was a crow and his mother a wildling. He was raised by the Night's Watch.

[@MrClickity]

​@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330but regardless, he spent most of his early life with the NW. So it's kind of silly to say he couldn't have learned how to wield a greatsword.

[@redreignss]

Mance was a member of the Nightswatch so he definitely knew how to wield a great sword and dawn isn't a valyrian steel blade. It was forged from a fallen meteor

[@laimejannister5627]

but which one was harry potter?

[@gamm8939]

Dawn is also not a greatsword and the Daynes have purple eyes.

[@brianfarley4814]

There are actually only three people in the GoT world. No one has ever actually died, and they are all Faceless Men playing tons of roles.

[@duffman18]

Mance Rayder isn't a wildling! Didn't you know that!? You're a bloody game of thrones channel and you didn't know that!? He was raised from childhood by the night's watch!!! Read the books. He was much like Olly, though even younger, he was as a young child, a toddler, when he joined the night's watch. Mance was raised by them and so had tons and tons and tons and tons of practice with swords. It was only when he was already a middle aged man that he left the night's watch and joined the wildlings. He wasn't raised as a wildling, he was raised as a westerosi Knight, essentially, though he was never actually officially knighted because night's watch men can't be knighted, but he was trained from childhood by the night's watch which contained multiple actual knights as trainers (e.g. Alliser Thorn, and of course Jeor Mormont), and so it amounted to the same thing as if he WERE trained to be a knight. He was a knight in all but name, a mere technicality really, just semantics. Read the bloody books lol! 😂 Edit: and you don't even know that the sword "Dawn" isn't a valyrian steel blade!? Seriously, you didn't even know that!? Bloody hell mate, you should delete this video and fix it and then post a fixed version. You always say "in the books" at the beginning of your videos, yet apparently you've never read the books. The sword Dawn, of house dayne, is not a valyrian steel sword. It's a sword made from a meteorite that fell to the ground from the sky. It's heavily implied that Dawn is the same sword as Lightbringer, the sword that Azor Ahai wielded. And GRRM says he can't reveal what House Dayne's official motto is, because he says it would be a huge spoiler. But it's implied that Azor Ahai, the last hero, formed Hiuse Dayne thousands of years before. He brought an end to the long night, i.e. he brought DAWN back to the world. And each Knight who is worthy enough to wield Dawn as its passed down through the generations, is known as the Sword of the Morning. Azor Ahai brought the morning, by ending the long night. Then renamed Lightbringer to Dawn and formed house Dayne and said that only the very very best swordsmen were allowed to wield Dawn, so not every Dayne gets to wield it, it's not just inherited like that, they have to be very very good at fighting to be awarded it, because Azor Ahai was the best swordsman in the world when he was around.

[@darkcrowsin666]

the type of theories you think when you hit your 2:00 of morning 🚬 😅

[@GerGerDaLerLer]

Love a 2am shmoke

[@jthomas3528]

Mance Rayder was not a wildling. It was a former member of the Nightwatch, so he definitely would’ve had some training with a sword.

[@JackCarlisleOfficial]

Wrong! His mother was a wildling and his father was a night's watchman

[@angelaizen2231]

​@JackCarlisleOfficial he's half wildling by birth, but he was left at one of the walls castles as a baby and was raised by the men of the nights watch. He's a night's watchman.

[@marleymarsss]

Yeah this one is a little too out there for me lol

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

The way he treats Dawn is outrageous in the show. Driving it not only into soil but rocky sand! That would blunt and scratch a none magical blade and could even roll the tip depending on the blade, the ground, and the force used to drive it in.

[@Bridos]

Wish that would be true, magnificent way to put icons like them in the shadows, helping the main actors in the present and protecting an epic past

[@fameasser123]

Dawn isn't a Valyrian Steel blade. It is one of the few named swords that isn't a Valyrian Steel blade is instead a blade made from a meteor/comet/asteroid (idk which word would be most correct). Georgie Boy has also stated on numerous occasions how Ser Arthur Dayne and his sword Dawn are his favourites in the ASOIAF book series.

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

I've never heard these quotes. He's specifically said Tyrion is his favorite.

[@maniacalmatt917]

Mance was a Brother of the Night's Watch, he'd know how to use a sword.

[@zadenwachter9918]

Greatswords are antiquated battlefield instruments specifically designed to break pike/spear lines. They are dreadful dueling weapons. The NW don't fight war so they'd have little need for greatswords and less call for training with them. They even made a point to show that Castle Black only had one rusty old greatsword in the whole armory.

[@Ace-cr9qt]

Can you do a short on Winterfell? And I love you videos and what house are you?

[@daemonthorn5888]

Wait. I thought Mance used to be a brother of the Nights Watch. If that's so, then he hasn't always been a Wildling, and could have learned to wield a greatsword anywhere.

[@yassinel7458]

Mance was once a ranger am I right? That’s prb why he’s good with a sword .

[@niemniej3441]

I'm pretty sure that Stannis met Mance at The Wall and he probably knew Sir Arthur. I think he would recognize him.

[@TiaguinhoMu]

In the show, Mance Rayder last words are the same as Arthur Dayne in the flashback from Bran: "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come"...

[@zadenwachter9918]

Well, Stannis *did* spend THREE HOURS IN PRIVATE CONVO with Mance when they first met. When has Stannis spent three hours in private conversation with ANYONE?

[@alias9236]

Bruh, someone at the watch would have recognized the most famous warrior in westeros

[@christianedwards6364]

Totally agree. The only way is if they are glamoured or something. If u make that argument then anyone can be anybody. Plus it ruins the parallel between them and dannys dragons being born, and summerhall. 3 sacrifices basically to bring a dragon into the world

[@DanaWhiteFr]

What the hell is this theory?😭🙏

[@shotgunfringe]

Mance was a part of the Nights watch so he had weapons training.

[@TheDrexxus]

Bro, Arthur Dayne served the mad king, knowing it was wrong, to keep his oath as a kingsguard. No way in hell he'd join the nightswatch then break that oath to defect and go live north of the wall. He was an honorable man that wouldn't be an oathbreaker.

[@AniSwiftTVRecaps]

Btw the theory begins with neds statement, arthur dane was the best knight to ever lived and would have killed me if howland reid didn't...... then he stopped talking. So what we know is after an argument with robert over tywin murdering rhagars family, he goes and confront the kings guards with 5 men, its at this point where we dont know whats happened but afterwards we know ned and howland read was the only ones who remained there while ned was grieving his sister. So the theory goes that there are no bodies like literally none and shortly after arthur danes sister commited suicide once again no body. So people began theorizing that ned gave the kings guard the option to take the black and somehow howland reid convinced them to take it which they then broke there to flee beyond the walls, then the knights who followed ned are either dead or also in hiding with ashara dane in howland reids home. Okay so howland reid and jon is the same age and ashra was said to be pregnant (by supposedly neds brother) but howland was also at that party and could have clapped so they made a plan to fake her death so they can be together

[@AndrosPera]

If am not mistaken, Mance also wished “i wish you good fortunes in the wars to come”, same thing that Sir Arthur said to Ned in the tower of joy scene

[@Apolitically-Correct]

Mance was previously in the night’s watch. How would dayne go in the night’s watch without being recognized?

[@joefederici2436]

“A wilding like mance should have no experience with..”. He was once a brother of the nights watch Great vid though I could see it!

[@jeshopgim]

Before Mantz was a wild lake, he was a Night’s Watch Crow. He left the order because they told him he had to remove the red from his cloak.

[@uriahgiroux9694]

Do you take all your content from the KZbin channel The Order of the Greenhand? This has been covered like six years ago by them.

[@eddie8306]

Mance was a sworn brother of the nights watch. He should have some recollection of how to wield a longsword.

[@bradwolf07]

This is one of the theories I truly enjoy and am rooting for...at least since it was suggested to me

[@MrCrespo583]

The Ice and Fire community is wild. There are no original characters in the books: somebody has to be somebody else, and if they are dead, they arent

[@thelastbrickbender2139]

That’s actually why the antagonist is called the great other, cause he’s the only other character on the continent, everyone else is actually the sane person

[@aarroncross3801]

The Star Wars community has reached that point as well with these new characters in the Ahsoka series. It's ridiculous

[@Pink.andahalf]

​@@aarroncross3801The actual show isn't interesting enough, so they have to improvise.

[@TiaguinhoMu]

In the show, Mance Rayder last words are the same as Arthur Dayne in the flashback from Bran: "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come"...

[@matro2]

It's bad, but after George pulled the 'Arstan Whitebeard is Barristan Selmy', people are inclined to presume he may do it more.

[@DarrylAdams-o5l]

Do you not know that mance was a member of the watch......

[@kman13131]

Arthur was one of the most famous swordsmen in the Realm and was in the Nights Watch, someone would recognize him and require a conspiracy to hide him. He knows how to fight well because he was a trained Ranger in the Watch. He beat Jon because Jon is a boy who isn't as good at fighting the books as he is in the show.

[@bclark3614]

The lords and noble houses are pretty good about not holding grudges when someone dies due to someone else upholding their duties. Ned didn't want to kill Arthur, he just had no choice. Arthur wouldn't have wanted to kill Ned, but if things had gone differently, he would have. House Dayne knows that, they're just thankful that Ned didn't keep their family sword, which he had the right toby defeating Arthur

[@Schmidtactular]

After reading To Green Angel Tower by Tad Williams, a book that heavily influenced GRRM, I have always felt that Ser Arthur Dayne had to still be alive. In the series, the character Sir Camaris, the bodyguard of the king, allegedly died like a decade before. He's mentioned in the first book, The Dragonbone Chair, because he once wielded the legendary sword Thorn that the protagonists need. In the next book it's relieved that Camaris is still alive, and in To Green Angel Tower it's revealed that the initial cause of his disappearance was that the woman he loved (the queen he was protecting) died during child birth (giving birth to Prince Josua, his is actually Camaris's son) and his overwhelming grief set in motion the chain of events that would lead to everyone believing he was dead. Plus when Arthur Dayne appeared in GOT, GRRM publicly voiced his disappointment in the appearance of Daynes sword, Dawn... which is odd because as of right now, Arthur Dayne and Dawn are merely background information, lore, if you will. Why would George speak out about the appearance of a sword that thus far has only appeared in a flashback?

[@darkerdaemon7794]

Mance wasnt just a wildling though, he was legit a former nights watch as well. His backstory wasnt told though but i believe it was mentioned he was of a noble family before he went to the wall.

[@Fictionfactory555]

Mance knows how to use a great sword because he used to be a member of the Knights watch so that’s like the dumbest reason for him being Arthur Dane ever and Arthur dane is way too honorable for the nonsense that the wildlings get up to

[@jamesseiter4576]

Yes, yes it is. The Night's Watch uses weapons common to the Seven Kingdoms. Any competent Watcher would have experience with a great sword, and depending on who taught them, it could be their preferred weapon.

[@sasa1982uk]

And the reason Ned has nightmares of the tower of joy is because he sided with the kingsguard and killed his own bannermen to keep the secret after being shown a vision by Reed. Thats how Reed saved his life vs Dayne. Dayne fled north and became Mance so did Whent and became Quorin.

[@sageer2585]

If I recall with pinpoint accuracy, Mance was actually a member of the Kingsguard before he belonged to the night watch, and was a sworn brother of the Social Justice League.

[@oliverwagner4404]

This is a horrible theory lmao, I watched the show once and ik mance wasn’t initially a wildling, and obviously they honored him because he brought the sword back despite fighting Arthur

[@o4awsm]

Mance Rayder is Aegon Taragaryen. The bloke had his uncle on the Wall, left the Crows for not letting him have red in his black clothes (Targaryen colours) & instantly recognised Jon Snow. ... Also, Rob + Lyanna= Jon (the seed is strong) 😊

[@maxkogan3785]

Arthur Dayne was basically the Lancelot of Westeros. No way he would've gone unrecognized.

[@tirrellreed8258]

Mance was a Ranger in the Nights Watch, so he have a lot of experience with a longsword. We start get theories like this when there's a long gap between books like we have now.

[@haiwin224]

Few inaccuracies here. Mance Rayder served in the Night's Watch as a Ranger and would have learned sword fighting under a master at arms. He defected from the Night's Watch before eventually becoming king beyond the wall. Dawn the ancestral blade of the Daynes was not made of Valyrian steel. It was made from starmetal from a meteor which is said to have similar properties to Valyrian steel.

[@disturbed157]

They were some of the most honorable men, they wouldn't then become enemies of the realm in that manner. Even warring houses would join to fight wildlings

[@cairoblade4619]

Bro he was raised at the nightswatch. They thought him how to use a great sword

[@magomedvisaitov7972]

Mance was orphan wildling raised in The Night’s Watch and he was a sworn member of it, he even has been in Winterfell as a brother of the Watch, with late Lord Commander Quorgyle, where he interacted with little Robb and John. As a Watcher, he had no problem with access to the two-handed(great) sword! If you are in the company of a Lord Commander it means you are higher ranked Crow.

[@animesempai0]

Mance Raider isn't a wildling originally, he was born south of the wall because he joined the night's watch. And deserted because of his cloak and became king of the wildlings.

[@aegis666420]

mance was a brother of the night's watch, he would absolutely had experience with such a weapon.

[@joshuabowen6919]

Mance was a ranger in the Nights Watch and probably learned how to use a sword there and he left the the Watch probably 10-20 years before the start of the books(idk exactly)and hiuse Dayne honored Ned fir returning the sword Dawn. It's the Dayne Ancestral Sword that is made from a fallen star(meteor) and is more rare that Valerian steel. Ned could have kept but he's an honorable guy and the sword wasn't his to keep Edit* not too mention if they thought Ned killed Arthur in single combat then Ned would be a man worth honoring

[@robisoncolton38]

Here’s the thing, it makes much more sense that he is alive considering how much he is talked about as being the greatest, the show however killed off any and all characters they didn’t know how to make a story for they also left out a massive amount of important characters it is truly sad

[@aaronhuff2813]

Mance was a member of The Watch who became a wildling. Hence experienced with a greatsword but hadn't had one in years.

[@Flipindabird23]

You had me up until think tormund is anything but a wilding BORN and raised lmao

[@rooting4starks239]

Ridiculous shout. The Daynes honoured Ned because even though he killed the man than made sure Neds sister stayed imprisoned. He still had the honour to return their very rare, expensive and highly sort after heirloom. Ned showed them respect and they returned the favour.

[@errantvenatus6732]

So many issues here lol. Mance was from the South and a member of the Night's Watch for one, Dawn is made from a fallen star/meteor not Valyrian Steel, Eddard Dayne is named that as Eddard Stark was quite close to the family with many rumors of Jon's mother actually being Ashara Dayne

[@peter_piper3004]

mance was a member of the nights watch so it makes sense he’s trained in traditional combat

[@CyberScott86]

That just gave me goosebumps! That is so epic!!!!

[@Karlsefnii]

- Dawn is not Valyrian Steel - Mance doesn’t have stone dornish traits - Jon is 15 when he meets Mance, beating him isn’t much of a feat

[@SerialChiller1000]

I believe The Sword of Morning, and his sister Ashara, are alive in the books. I believe GRRM's language is purposefully vague and how interpret it is that Ser Arthur had Dawn at Ned Stark's throat and Lord Howland Reed talked him down possibly even stating how he can still fulfill his oath to his king, Jon. After Lyanna's death and the construction of the cairns, the three of them hatched a plan to bequeath Jon his birthright, The Iron Throne. The specifics of that plan will be disclosed in the coming books.

[@abarainosa]

"a wildling should have no experience...". Forgets the part where mance is from south of the Wall and served as a man of the night's watch. But aight

[@Say.hello.to.my.little.friend]

Mance is not a wildling …

[@FriesischeKuh]

Mance Raydar was a former sworn Brother of the Watch. It makes sense he would know how to use a great sword

[@bobing1752]

If this theory makes it into the book, then we can all agree that not finishing them would have been for the better.

[@carsonkahla9162]

Mance is a former Raider, making it completely realistic he trained with a long sword before leaving the brotherhood

[@linuskentr]

Maybe they honoured him BECAUSE BE BROUGHT THE SWORD BACK, as Arthur was his enemy, he showed great honour in returning it still

[@natedorney7032]

Mance was a ranger who deserted the watch so he would know how to handle a sword whether it was a typical arming sword or a great sword. And it states in the POV of Ned's fever dream: "And by the end, only reed and himself were left alive". So that rather summarily debunks the theory behind this video.

[@jordanpye8589]

What book is this from?

[@yoloswaggins1579]

Bro casually forgetting that mance rayder was in the night's watch.

[@matthewmorano8457]

Stannis would know. However, it would be pretty cool if he was, if only because he's someone else who would know who Jon is, and lots of those people are dying off.

[@ChapterGrim]

This is my new favourite theory!

[@jamesblue7883]

Mance was not born a wildling. He was a ranger of the nights watch, thats why he knows how to use a long sword

[@Westeroscontent_tunisia]

A lot of wrong informations here Dawn is not a valyrian steel sword(this was never mentionned in the books) Mance was a ranger in the nights watch so he can wield a sword