Digital Nomads and Expats: Are we to blame for the housing crisis in Lisbon?

Рет қаралды 2,970

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 44

@tracifin1 Жыл бұрын

This is happening all over the world, not just Lisbon. Here in Australia, there is also a housing crisis. Same situation. Very sad.

@MT-ys6ju Жыл бұрын

Just a decade ago, Lisbon was considered to be one of the cheapest places to go on holiday.. Even tourism now has gone through roof! Flights included..

@michsand Жыл бұрын

If we choose to take advantage of residing in another country that affords us a better standard of living then we must be aware of that privilege. You have just explained that feeling I have as we plan our retirement to Thailand from Australia. I can't help but feel torn being part of this Modern day Colonialism.

@dannya3431 Жыл бұрын

I'm curious, is this something you discuss amongst your retiring peers? Because as a millenial, when I look at my boomer parents and their peers they dont seem to think twice about it. They all seem to be happily planning where to jet set and spend their wealth in retirement while their kids cant afford to have children and Hawaiians are begging from forest fire ash for tourists to stay away.

@michsand Жыл бұрын

@@dannya3431 Absolutely but it does not sit well with most people my age. We are from a generation of such privilege without any idea of the impact it has created. It is depressing to see.

@RemofRenaissance 9 ай бұрын

Yes I agree. I was considering moving to Lisbon so I can live more comfortably but now having second thoughts as feel I would only add to the problem that locals in Lisbon face 😔 So I’m stuck. Don’t like to stay in my country of residence and feel bad for moving elsewhere…

@MP-ui5vd 7 ай бұрын

@@RemofRenaissance Move to some town or smaller city.

@hannahn4754 Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you touched on the economic/ productivity issues. That's really the crux of it. Having such low output means the economy will stay stagnant, it means salaries remain low and it means rents remain unaffordable. Of course, the gov could do 1000% more to control rents (I think they have decent rent controls in Paris and other French cities). Rent control should be implemented, abandoned buildings should be renovated/ invested in (possibly as social housing) and the gov should focus on increasing their gdp.

@elsienorback7689 Жыл бұрын

It’s so unfortunate that the cost of rent/living has increased so much that the locals are priced out. That is the same situation in places like Jackson Hole, WY. Locals are priced outside the city and have to commute to work into the city to work. The situation in WY is that wealthy ppl, like celebrities, move into the community and pay an astronomical amount and drive the prices up.

@andrearchiecameron Жыл бұрын

Digital nomads and foreign retirees are protected from Portuguese taxes. Nomads have a cap of 20% for income made in Portugal whereas a citizen has a 45% cap in the highest level. Nomads pay 0% for income they make in other countries. Retirees now have a 10% maximum. Both nomads and retirees can take advantage of the healthcare system and subsidized prescription medicine but working class Portuguese are PAYING THE TAXES. The government has done too little too late. This can not, and must not, be compared with other countries. Each situation is different and it is too complex to make direct comparisons. Saying that "in this country it's like this or in that it's like that" is just ignoring the real problem HERE. Gentrification has ruined historic Portuguese neighborhoods. We have already lost the character of those old neighborhoods but we are also losing traditions.

@metalmusi Жыл бұрын

The problem needs to be solved from a regulation standpoint. People will take advantage of what's available for them. If Portugal had restrictions for this, the housing crisis could not happen even if digital nomads and expats wanted to move to Lisbon with their higher salaries and savings. Yes, there will be resentment from local people as they see what's theirs being overtaken by foreigners, but the government is responsible for allowing that to happen.

@1755Lisbon Жыл бұрын

You are absolutely correct about the role played by the legacy of the dictatorship in Portugal's economic and social problems. Of course, there is a broader international economic context to consider, but state bureaucracy, the lack of up-to-date legislation, and transparency regarding economic competition, as well as the recurring issue of fair taxation for the wealthier citizens, are hindering the country's progress. Digital nomads are of paramount importance not only for Portugal but also for international development across all aspects of society. Furthermore, remote work is the future, and in the case of countries like Portugal, where wages are significantly lower compared to the cost of living, it could be the ultimate game-changer.

@MP-ui5vd 7 ай бұрын

Why don't you move to some town or smaller city and leave Lisbon and other big cities for the young locals who *need* to work and study there?

@benlaw3547 Жыл бұрын

Well considered and thoughtful delivery on an issue that could be easily extrapolated to other countries. There's no quick and easy solution, but some immediate consideration/action by the machinery of government is critical... 🥺

@thesilk1954 Жыл бұрын

Adrien, One of the reasons that I love you is because you seem to lean Left. But you don't subscribe to shame and guilt like most of the Left do. When you said are digital nomads displacing locals I was praying to sweet baby jesus that you wouldn't go down the path of virtue signaling like so many people from the left do. And, you didn't. You're real, honest and a handsome devil. Apologies if I assumed something with your politcal standing. I have been living in Playa Del Carmen for the last 3 years and just moved to Medellin.. I lean right but I hate when people bring up polotics but I just wanted to say that I like your style.

@andrearchiecameron Жыл бұрын

I am an American immigrant (I have never used the classist designation "expat") and I have been here for 38 years. The influx of digital nomads has definitely increased rent prices in Lisbon. It can not, it must not be ignored. There are other factors contributing to the housing crisis as well. The present situation is unstainable and has caused ill feelings here. Americans continue to market Portugal as a cheap, safe paradise in Europe. Young people here say that the country has become a Disneyland for wealthy foreigners.

@eurohans Жыл бұрын

A simple question: who owns the apartments? Mostly the parents, uncles and aunts of the young people that can't find a place to stay. The same all over the world.

@MP-ui5vd 7 ай бұрын

Dear, those who cannot find a place obviously don't have a relative who can offer them accommodation! *Think before writing*

@Nunov103 Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t say that you guys are responsible for the current housing crisis, since this whole digital nomad thing is quite recent and Portugal’s housing crisis has been addressed for quite some time and no one has presented any reasonable solutions, namely the construction of affordable housing, especially in Lisbon. Add to that Portugal’s obsession with low wages and then you have this massive problem that doesn’t appear to have a reasonable solution in sight.

@rennie2611 Жыл бұрын

This is happening in The US, when ever there are new companies move into a state/city especially if they are coming from a high income area, it affects the local community. Here in Huntsville Al, rent is running up to $1700.00 a month. It’s just global greed.

@lantran8967 Жыл бұрын

How much was the rent?

@Celestialtarotreadings Жыл бұрын

Same as Barcelona, very expensive but everything else is cheap 🤷🏿‍♀️

@VenusRadha Жыл бұрын

It’s happening everywhere, especially America. I could never afford to go back home to America. I can only afford SE Asia on my online salary. It’s political and much deeper. I wanted to change careers and start auditioning for the opera in Germany while working online. I can’t afford to do that either and I am stuck in my online job for the moment.

@Zuzana1fan Жыл бұрын

I agree totally, this is an orchestrated event all of the G20 countries. "you will own nothing and you will be happy" The WEF globalist will make it very hard to own any person property.

@closetome Жыл бұрын

I find it funny that you consider 1200 euros after tax to be a low salary because pre pandemic that was considered to be a fantastic one by locals. Many people there earn around 850 euros after tax each month and a portion is paid on a meal card which can only be used in certain restaurants and supermarkets (the portuguese's genius way of not having to pay tax on that part. Sarcasm).

@rof8200 Жыл бұрын

There's all that cheap labor, Portugal should build way more houses and apartments.

@royalladin5276 2 ай бұрын

The shortage of affordable housing is the fault of the Portuguese government. In order to bring capital into the country, the golden visa and the NHR scheme were created. Cities in Portugal were impoverished and with foreign investors they could tackle that. Everything that comes with it also benefits the local economy. Think of shops, the handyman, restaurants and so on. The local economy has benefited considerably from it. What the government has neglected is to draw up a program that obliges a percentage of new construction or renovation of affordable housing for the local population. There are an incredible amount of empty homes in Portugal, so there is not really a shortage. The problem has been created. The expads, digital nomads and investors are the scapegoats to camouflage the failure of the Portuguese government.

@anon-rf5sx Жыл бұрын

So many people "feeling" here but no one doing. In a way it's worse to come here and say how your bleeding heart cries for the locals and then go around exactly the same as before. If you said nothing you implicitly admit you are a parasite and you don't care about the problem. If you talk about the feel and do then nothing you prove you are too greedy,, too selfish, too weak to do anything that will diminish your privilege, but you don't want to renounce to the moral high ground either, or face any guilt that would destroy the delusions of moral superiority. You are not abnormal or unique if you follow this attitude though, this systematic hypocrisy driven by the combination of selfishness and obsessive need to claim moral superiority in all situations is the very basis of "progressive" mentality.

@MP-ui5vd 7 ай бұрын

Great comment.

@teddydavis2339 8 ай бұрын

You shouldn't feel guilty for having a good salary. Yes, the wealthy are out pricing the local people who make close to minimum wage, but it's the greedy landlords who are to blame. Portugal has a lot of problems that have been ignored for years. Having livable wages would resolve so many problems. Portugal has always been a country of inequality. I know that this is a harsh thing to say, Portugal is full of incompetent people. I lived in Portugal, and I wasn't impressed. It is really surprising that the world has become so obsessed with Portugal.

@deannabollo170 3 ай бұрын

There is a lot that you’re missing and once you embark on the reality of this country you will come face to face with the absolute frustrating curved balls caused by terrible bureaucracy! Rude staff, confusion, no protection from the injustices, is unbearable. Contradiction is frightening. Lack of support i.e departments to oversee the rights of the consumer is a fairy tale! Also the past weighs heavy when the Portuguese hear anyone complain about the lack of services! They go on the defensive! I was here before then left, and many years later am back and trying everything to get out of here ! It really weighs on me the blatant lassitude of everyone! I’m half Portuguese and cringe at it! Frustrating! As for the housing situation I have lots to point out.

@basementstudio7574 Жыл бұрын

I feel for the people who aren't making enough to live well, but that's not just a Lisbon/Portuguese thing. I live here in the states and most young people with degrees aren't living in the city center on their salary either. That's usually where the wealthy/top earners/CEOs types live. Which ever city that might be. I have a neighbor who has a 28 year old son who has a masters degree in finance. He works in NYC for some big finance firm. He's making over $150,000 a year. He's not living in the city center. He's living a hour outside the city by train and has two roommates to make ends meet. My wife and I make almost a $250,000 a year a we live 35 miles outside of DC. We can't afford to live in the city center. Not that we'd want to with the 6 to 10 weekly murders by guns but that's a different subject. And this is without digital nomads coming here, it's just capitalism which is charge the highest price you can for whatever it is your selling. I really do feel for them but it's really not any different than anywhere else. I guess they, like everyone else need to live in the more affordable suburbs with a roommate or two and commute to work. I hope I'm not being insensitive.

@elsienorback7689 Жыл бұрын

I agree that investment and building infrastructure is really lacking, like much of the world, especially America. Which drives the price of housing out the roof. At this point, since 2008, many countries had invested in huge luxury homes to make more money but the opposite had happened, the younger generation cannot afford the huge luxury homes and the older generation is not selling their medium sized homes because they cannot afford nor have a need to own the big homes.

@RalucaBlajut Жыл бұрын

I fear the world will become divided between those that can afford these prices, and they will live in the center of the capitals, pushing out the locals, and those that cannot afford these prices, who will end up living who knows where and in what conditions, in poor communities outside of the big cities. It’s heartbreaking to watch, really! The world should come together so that everyone had a good life! Instead, we are more divided than ever! 😢

@charlesb7019 5 күн бұрын

The world has already divided between the haves and have nots. It always has been to some degree, but this is the worst it has been in my lifetime. (I’m an old geezer). I fear that it will get much worse before it gets any better….

@andreeapopa7317 Жыл бұрын

so you have been very strategically picking and taking advantage of low income countries but you're now pretending to not see that you are very much part of the problem. it's shameful...

@MP-ui5vd 7 ай бұрын

Indeed! This kind of individuals are too selfish to admit the damage they do and do something about it.

@cjackfly Жыл бұрын

Yeah, thanks a LOT bub. My ancestors are from there and I was planning on visiting someday but now, thank to you, I can't afford it! Joke. It's just how it is in this life. I spent a bunch of time in CZ and just across the border in Germany they make 9x more for the same jobs just 25km away. Just how it is. They gotta do for themselves. Can't blame anyone else. Just consider yourself lucky and count your blessings. Don't feel sorry for anyone.