Jesus *as* Israel = THE MOST important theme in the Bible (Seriously)

[@corycollins318]

Unemployed stay at home dad with a masters degree. Learning so much. Can’t wait to donate once I get a job 😂🙏🏼

[@ProselyteofYah]

Loving much of your content. I'm really happy to have discovered you, as I share so many of your own opinions and evaluations expressed of scripture. Jesus as Israel is one of the big ones, which is all throughout. And it's why I believe Isaiah describes the Saviour (Suffering Servant) as both Israel and yet a man of the throne of David/Jesse at the same time. There is a lot of dualistic imagery. And what I detected, is that the same is carried through into the NT. Not explicitly, but Jesus, Peter, and Paul all speak to this theme. In how we are all part of Jesus' body, and so we carry our own crosses as to be a part of that composite, we are crucified with him, buried with him, raised with him. And that Jesus himself is the Temple (calling his body the temple) whilst we too as his congregation are also called his Temple by the Apostles. And so there is a double layer in Isaiah's servant. The Messiah, but also those who become his body join in on his suffering, fulfilling in him, the composite or "national servant", as Spiritual Israel, with Christ as the 'head' of that 'body' we are all in. But sadly this double layer is overlooked, and creates polarisation and debate (and even is abused by some who oppose Christ and the fulfilments of Isaiah pertaining to him).

[@tsukareppi]

You have so many great topics on your channel. Thank you for using your knowledge to help others understand everything from theological concepts to Hebrew. And Superhero Seminary is the coolest idea ever!

[@daveweber1331]

Thanks so much, JM, for this deep dive into biblical theology. It gave me at least a glimpse of how humanity developed the terrible thought patterns that led to the holocaust, etc. 42 minutes well spent, on a Sunday afternoon! 🙂 Thanks again.

[@DiscipleDojo]

Thanks for watching, man!

[@rmccaslin3708]

Powerful! Thanks JM

[@heavenbound7-7-7-7]

"As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Romans 9:13 Now this makes a whole lot more sense.

[@leonardholmes8551]

God is Great

[@barbarasesee4491]

FABULOUS!! Another book that you recommend is ordered & arriving tomorrow-The Mission of God: Unlocking The Bible's Grand Narrative-I’m looking forward to reading it. Absolutely FANTASTIC video-thanks so much! ❤️

[@DiscipleDojo]

It is amazing!

[@James-g3w7w]

​@@DiscipleDojoCould I please ask you to consider something. Is it possible that the Apostles had a different foundation that requires both Trinitarian and Unitarian terms? Bear with me please. Occurring at the same time and after Nicea is a little remembered (if at all) debate about the origin of souls, Traducianism v Creatianism. If you're not familiar with it please review it so I can keep this short. The material should trace Traducionism at least back to Tertullian. Now, here's something that is a bit harder to find, but there were two different types of Traducionism, Stoic and Biblical Hebrew (Tertullian was a Stoic Traducion and this is why he developed his Logos theology of the Trinity, with the Logos as an emanation like a soul). Other Greek philosophers also held to reincarnation and creatianism (that God creates a soul for the body at or after conception). Creatianism is now the dominant Christian and Muslim view, and it's the necessary for the Trinity of persons, on the one hand, but logically denies the Divine Person of the Son and that logic actually agrees with the Qaran (which I will show). Biblical Hebrew Traducionism is explicitly stated in HEBREWS (imagine that) chapter 7. LEVI PAID TITHES TO MELCHIZEDEK WHILE IN ABRAHAM, therefore Jesus is, like Melchizedek, a greater high priest than Levi. Why does Paul use the phrase "so to speak"? Is this statement about Levi analogy? Obviously not, because Paul is using it as a factual basis for his argument and he presents it as if the hebrews he is writing already understand this. The "so to speak" indicates that Levi's will while in Abraham's loins was Abraham's will. We can restate this, LEVI WAS WITH ABRAHAM AND WAS ABRAHAM PAYING TITHES TO MELCHIZEDEK (sounds familiar). This is also where the doctrine of original sin comes from, WE WERE WITH ADAM AND WERE ADAM IN EDEN. This logical consequence of Traducionism was a big problem for creatianism because sin then had to be imputed to a new soul otherwise the baby would not be subject to death. SO, there's the "analogy" the Apostles were drawing from, the Traducion origin of souls, not shamrocks and triangles, for understanding the consequences of the virgin birth and Jesus as the son of God. He was in the beginning God and with God in the same way we were Adam and with Adam and Levi was Abraham and with Abraham. A second consequence is that THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD. A son's right to the name and inheritance of the Father in based on his having his Father's blood (in law it's called CONSANGUINITY). Jesus is born from a virgin, but his life, soul, and blood are from his Father, God, because he was "conceived of the Holy Spirit". 1 John 5 THESE THREE TESTIFY ON EARTH THE SPIRIT THE WATER AND THE BLOOD AND AGREE THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. This must be referring to the virgin birth (although recapitulated in the baptism and crucifixion) because there's no way that the blood can testify except in the sense of a blood (paternity) test. Notice that he didn't come by water only (which would have been the case IF he was only the product of Mary, the concept of blood from male seed/sperm was univocally attested throughout Scripture), but he CAME by water AND blood. This is why John 3:16 calls him MONOGENAES, the only generated. Traducionism is also called the "genetic" origin of souls. Trinitarians and Unitarians will usually say God the Father has no blood, he is a Spirit, and Jesus had Mary's blood. Ok, then he is not the son of God, and they agree with the Qaran, which is at least consistent with the logic of creatianism, and say Jesus is the son of Mary and Allah has no son. Adoption doesn't square with MONOGENAES, but is also based on creatianism and consistent with the Qaran calling Jesus the Messiah of the Jews. I'm entirely satisfied with DIVINE TRADUCIONISM. Just making you aware if you want to explore it further.

[@gavinadams4572]

Psalms 119:162 “I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.”

[@magicalowl1782]

This is an excellent video. 5 star review ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@Llllbbb.123]

I absolutely love this. I cannot thank you enough for this. How awesome is your clear, concise explanation. THANK YOU. You are one of my favorites.

[@DanielWray-z7m]

Well done, brother!

[@jasonhart335]

Nailed it! ...and on the opinion of Chris Wright too. ;) Keep preaching it, because this is a game-changer for how we understand our belonging, identity, and purpose. Thank you!

[@sushantnaik6364]

Excellent exposition of two covenants. God bless.

[@Llllbbb.123]

I rejoiced over your video. YES! And will order the book as well.

[@NessaAudrey]

Thank you so much. My husband and I have been watching your videos since we found you through your Trump attempted assassination video (it came up on my husband’s feed) and it’s been so refreshing for various reasons and in regard to various biblical positions. But we’ve been feeling like we’re on an island in our Christian community here in central California. Once the onslaught on Gaza began after the events on Oct7, we instantly felt that what was happening in response was wrong. As parents, seeing the thousands of children in literal pieces in just the first days of Israel’s response absolutely broke us. The Israeli civilians killed on Oct 7 and the 40,000+ to possibly 186,000+ civilian Palestinians (as of now) who are continuing to be killed every day, it’s been absolutely heartbreaking. But in addition to that we’ve been grieving for much of America’s Christian community… I became vocal about the modern state of Israel’s response to Oct 7, that it is unjust, and quickly came to see that people in our community had perhaps made an idol of Israel. They either believe the modern state of Israel is the literal same biblical Israel and therefore think they can do no wrong (even though biblical OT Israel always did wrong and was disciplined by God? 🤔), or they don’t think they’re the biblical Israel, yet still can’t say anything bad about Israel or what they’re doing. This caused my husband and I to really pause and consider a question we sadly hadn’t thoroughly thought through before… who is the true Israel of the Bible? We did a deep dive into the Bible and came to the conclusion as the one you made in this video. Jesus alone is the promised seed of Abraham (all Scripture testified about Him). He is the true Israel and all of us who believe in Him are Abraham’s offspring and therefore a part of biblical Israel. It’s the only thing that makes sense and doesn’t require reading into or doing gymnastics with Scripture to make it make sense. So, finding this video was an answer to prayer. Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly and thoughtfully detail it all out. What a blessing 🙏🏽❤️ And thank you for your statement at the end about being interested in injustice, caring for the orphan, defending the oppressed, a voice for the voiceless, etc… that these are our ways of living God’s way here on earth, this side of heaven, and that that isn’t some “social Justice” taboo/cliche thing many Christians have made it out to be, but rather it’s God’s call on our lives… not that doing these things save us, but these are things we do because we are saved, as it’s what He’s commanded of us, so it’s simply being obedient and having the eyes/heart of God. Gaza has opened my eyes, sadly it took 14 years of walking with Jesus to arrive here and it took something so horrific to do it. Seeing live-streamed injustice/oppression every day, opened my eyes to not only the suffering and oppression in Palestine, but the depths of it everywhere. God has used Gaza to make me see that selfish ungodliness in myself and in my community, too. I’ve spoken up about this as well, that caring for these things is our call, but the responses from my community have made me question if I’m on the right path. So hearing that was another answer to prayer. At a season of my 14 years (and my husband’s 13 years) of faith where we’ve never felt more sadness as Christians, this video, and so many of your videos have been an encouragement to us. God’s used you to humble my critical heart, to not feel crazy lol, and to spur us on toward Christ. We’re so grateful to God for you. Thank you 🙏🏽❤️❤️

[@angelaedmund5836]

Thank you for this beautiful and encouraging comment.

[@NessaAudrey]

@@angelaedmund5836 🫂❤️❤️❤️

[@samsingerjr]

I'm listening to the Audible version of The Mission of God. Thanks for the great recommendation!

[@ronnychristenjoyer6778]

I've been a Christian for about 4 years now but I still have my mind blown about the bible and what God is doing. Your channel is awesome, so is NT Wright (I gotta read his books).

[@missinglink_eth]

Fantastic explanation ❤❤❤

[@hma4854]

I cannot express just how phenomenal this session is! It packs quite an enlightening theological punch! I am learning about covenant theology & dispensationalism, but I'm going to start incorporating fulfillment theology into my studies. Thank you for sharing your knowledge & the book recs!

[@Cself81]

Bro this was such a great teaching! Thank you. Excited to look out for this as I read scripture! Greetings from Charlotte.

[@KarenDash]

Amen!

[@stephenmcdonald9859]

This should have more views. Excellent video

[@patkirkc]

So good!

[@sydney.g.sloangammagee8181]

Hello once again, Dojo - this video has got to be one of your absolute best!!! Wish I had watched it earlier, had this in my watch later list - I've been distracted for several months. Most of your videos that I have watched, have been about Bible & translation reviews . . . THANKS to you, I am delighted with my purchases of: CSB Ancient Faith SB (loving it & as my first CSB translation as well, single column is easier to read), NKJV Ancient Modern Bible, NKJV Evangelical SB, Biblical Theology SB (wish it were not NIV), ESV Church History SB, NASB Grace & Truth SB, NET Full Notes Edition (already quite useful) NKJV Cultural Backgrounds SB, Baker Illustrated Bible Background Commentary, obviously a NKJV Thompson Chain Reference (learning to use that, but so far, what I seek, I find & as a result, gave away an extensive MacArthur Topical Reference that I had for 3 years & never found what I was seeking.) I also got the KJV Enduring Voices SB (awesome) & Simplified KJV (so identical to NKJV that I haven't found any difference as of yet) but also a beautiful, Sovereign Collection KJV & I got my son a KJV Thompson Chain Reference, so we can both figure it out together, for smooth, Biblical communication! My son is a KJV only - I understand why; he is committed to not being influenced by any outside commentary to tell him what the scripture says . . . I greatly respect that! Especially because I feel like I was so gullible; despite being against the 5-point T.U.L.I.P. doctrine, being reeled into Calvinism without even realizing how subtle their tactics are!!! I had never even heard of Arminianism before discovering you & your channel, then Bible Reviews by Matthew Everhart as well, with playful bantor as nemesis beliefs . . . then came utube exposure with the BATTLE between Calvinism & Arminianism - it is so hostile & wrong!!! Now, I want truth & accuracy but I believe there is great value in "springboarding" off 2,000 years of other theologians, learning from their efforts & their mistakes, to know as much what to avoid as what to seek out. There is great corruption of Bible Translations over these 2,000 years, satan did not waste a moment to corrupt the gospel & attack God's written word; from Augustine, Eusebius & Constantine with gnosticism & pagan compromises to Westcott & Hort dissecting the deity of Jesus & His blood right out of scripture; ever since the NIV started being printed. There was only KJV, until RSV & ASB attempted to combine for easier, modern readability & NIV became a "plan of action" to be altered with subtle changes, explanations, basically forced upon us with every revision, affecting every other translation since the early 1900's - Dead Sea Scrolls should have corrected this - we must question every explanation for missing verses. We knew what we were getting with the Good News or The Message, even the World Translation, you know what to expect with NLT, CSB, NASB - all are up-front telling us the purpose of this Bible coming to be, choose wisely - treat newer translations with suspicion, they are all following suit from what the NIV was designed to do. In my research, a recent video discovery, states the Armenian Bible is fantastic for Scriptural accuracy, along with Russian, Serbian, Croatian, Old Africanis, Luther 1912 or a Schlakta (?) Bible - just don't trust any new revisions to any of those. Where does that leave us for English translations . . .Geneva, Puritan, Pilgrim, anything prior to when . . . ??? I have you to thank for waking me up!!! Sincerely, Dojo, Thank You!

[@belovedbrideofchrist7417]

Dude - YOU ARE SO RIGHT ON! So many unsearchable riches of God, so many mysteries revealed in this End Time hour, in which we live. We tend to think of ‘Israel’ as a nation but, it was a mans’ (Jacob’s’) new name, remember renamed by God, Himself. Also, in EXODUS God says, “Israel is my first born Son.” AMEN

[@battlejitney2197]

AMEN and AMEN!

[@aliensojourner]

Spot on

[@battlejitney2197]

Where does Covenant Theology land in the dichotomy of Supersessionism and Dispensationalism? I’ve heard Covenant Theology referred to as “replacement theology” but also heard Covenant adherents correct that inference to “fulfillment” theology. Thoughts?

[@DiscipleDojo]

Some forms of Covenant theology do fall into Replacement theology. But at its best, Covenant theology is very close to Fulfillment theology.

[@battlejitney2197]

@@DiscipleDojo Are there some distinguishing markers that easily distinguish the replacement focused forms of Covenant theology?

[@DiscipleDojo]

Yes. If they don't emphasize Jesus as the true "seed" in whom we all dwell, if they see the promises to Israel as having been removed because of disobedience and transferred to "the church", or if they see the church as something "new" in God's plan of redemption.

[@friklik25]

Thanks, for great video and especially for pointing to C.H. Wright. Can you recommend some other of his books? What is relationship between "Knowing God Through the Old Testament (3 book Set) and The Mission of God: Unlocking the Bible’s Grand Narrative? Where to start? What is difference?

[@DiscipleDojo]

His commentaries on Exodus, Deuteronomy, Jeremiah, Lamentations, and Ezekiel are worth their weight in gold, as is his "Hearing the Message of Daniel"! His "Knowing...through the OT" series are more thematic and introductory, whereas Mission of God is a full-fledged Biblical theology. But honestly, read everything you come across by him. You won't regret doing so.

[@Foffs_Musings]

Would The Mission of God be a good audible book or would it be tough to follow in that format?

[@DiscipleDojo]

There's so much in it that is worth rereading and pondering that I'm not sure audio would do it justice. But if one learns better through audio and doesn't zone out easily, then go for it! :-)

[@Foffs_Musings]

@@DiscipleDojo thanks. I will probably get the physical. Audible books are nice and convenient but if they have complex thoughts in them they can be hard to follow.

[@johnsonc8]

I had the audiobook and I think it’s a fine way to read if you just want to read through it. However, I subsequently purchased the physical version so I could dig in. For those who don’t regularly read this kind of book, audio is fine. For anyone who wants to ponder, reflect, or look up verses I can’t recommend the physical copy enough.

[@alohm]

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

[@alohm]

The Greatest Commandment (Deuteronomy 6:1-19; Matthew 22:34-40) 28Now one of the scribes had come up and heard their debate. Noticing how well Jesus had answered them, he asked Him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’g 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’h No other commandment is greater than these.”

[@KalliBella1]

Wow! That was great!

[@DiscipleDojo]

Thanks for watching. :-)

[@stephenbailey9969]

The purpose of the Bible is to point people to God's self-revelation, reaching the pinnacle in the Lord Jesus Christ. The narrative stories are the wrapping. The living Lord is the gift inside.

[@memerovira]

Here says abolishing the law... Can we please clarify? (Around min 17)

[@DiscipleDojo]

@@memerovira Jesus didn't come to abolish the Law...but to fulfill it. The Law remains Scripture to be studied and learned from, but its time as the legal code of Israel has come to an end with the sending of the Spirit and inauguration of the New Covenant Jeremiah and Ezekiel looked forward to.

[@Shevock]

Queen of heaven. Rev 12:1-2

[@HrvojeSL]

Good video, other than the strange completely out of context reference to the Hail Mary

[@weobeyjesus4565]

I agree with some of what you are saying. I disagree that Christ is Israel. I instead say Paul is teaching in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 that in a sense Israel has always included some Gentiles and only some (not all) Jews, saying that it is all who believe in God and keep Christ's law (not Moses' Law) who are the children of Abraham, even before Christ came. Those who believed in and obeyed God through God's Spirit were his people, not those who merely had flesh circumcision. His main agenda was to explain away how it is that God promised to never forsake Israel but had now forsaken some of the Jews. Had he broken his promise (Rom 3;3, 9;6)? No, instead Paul explains that it had always been that only some of the Jews were Israel and some Gentiles were too. So now in Christianity God has not forsaken Israel but instead revealed the true Israel. But there are also passages which refer to the Jews as Israel too, hence the flesh Israel and Spiritual Israel concepts in Romans 9. I don't see any reason to say Christ is Israel but I see that Paul writes the promise to Abraham (in your seed the nations shall be blessed) is fulfilled by a singular seed not the collective seed (Jews). This was again to explain that God's promises were fulfilled by Christianity not broken. I'm open to any correction. I have a few videos on related topics.

[@waltergoraj5238]

"According as He hath chosen us ( Israel) in Him ( Israel) before the foundation of the world...." Yes I mostly agree with your view on Israel. But regardless of what the nation was called, He had to take out a people for Himself before the world began, otherwise no one could be saved ( we are incapable of coming to God because of our sins). National Israel was an earthly representation of God which would have failed completely without His eternally merciful gift of predestination through Jesus Christ. Abraham was chosen before the world began just like I believe ( with fear and trembling) that I was. And also since we are on the other side of the Cross it's ok to say JESUS. Did we not receive the latter half of His word in Greek? Just an observation.

[@homemadetheology]

So, I understand what you are saying, but that still leaves me with a big question.... what happens to the people that never once had even an opportunity to hear about Christ. I mean the woman in south Africa that live a terrible life, hell on earth sort of speak. What happens to her? How about the other nations of the world in Old Testament time that never heard about God or the Messiah? I have a hard time reconciling the God of scripture with a God that would destroy a soul due to ignorance. I have asked this question so many times and I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.

[@DiscipleDojo]

I think the best answer is the question Abraham asked God, "Will not the judge of all the earth do what is right?!" The truth is, we don't know *how* God gives everyone a chance to respond to His Grace and accept for reject Him. But no one will be left out of the Kingdom for something they "didn't know." So I hold to what has been called the "wider hope" view in theological lingo. You can google it for more on the subject.

[@homemadetheology]

@@DiscipleDojo Thank you for your response. It seems people do not want to utter the dreaded words "we don't know" I am okay with that, I just could not reconcile the God of the Bible with some one that would send some one to hell for ignorance. I will look up you recommendations.

[@Strongtower]

@@homemadetheologyAlso remember we don't go to Hell because of ignorance, we go to Hell because of our sin.

[@sydney.g.sloangammagee8181]

Excellent scripture response from Dojo - Pastor Jack Hibbs has also addressed this numerous times in many of his teachings. Basically, preachers & teachers are called to a higher expectation of "properly leading their flock" therefore they will be judged to a higher level of expectation - each is judged according to their level of understanding, scriptures pertaining to children, mentally challenged, vision or hearing disabilities - so don't concern yourself with the people in the jungle somewhere - GOD IS A JUST GOD!!! Myself, for example, I accepted the Lord maybe when I was 9 to 12 years old, extreme renewal of re-birth in the Lord as an adult in 1985 - minimal spiritual growth over decades but I have no doubt the Holy Spirit was with me & guiding me, but I got caught up with life & only finally read the entire OT in 2012. Finally something changed in my desire to fight back, defend, ward off, push back against feeling vulnerable & susceptible to what everyone was telling me to believe & as I seriously searched the Bible as the best source of truth - WOW!!! I found myself thinking repeatedly, "Wait, WHAT? Am I reading that right? Is that really what this says? God told us this!!!" Scripture supports Scripture! Everything in the New Testament is a response to something somewhere in the Old Testament, especially Revelation!!! My point: I would have hated to have been judged by GOD for what I THOUGHT I knew & what I THOUGHT I believed. Who was telling me what to believe? Who is responsible for teaching me what it is I believe? At my age, I don't have the excuse of youth or handicap, only my own ignorance for not digging into HIS Word to learn all that HE has provided for me to learn about HIM with - right at my own fingertips, with my mind & in my heart. True believers have the desire to know the truth, to seek out that truth, to act upon their faith once they actively learn that truth.

[@Following_Jesus_In_Faith]

Hello, I tried finding you on facebook and was unable. By chance would you be willing to sell your copy of the NIV First Century Study Bible? My daughter has a learning disability and another student in her college bible class had it. She borrowed it for a paper during last semester and found it was incredibly helpful for her. Unfortunately that student graduated and now has moved on. I have looked everywhere for it and even contacted Zonderan, but its out of print. She really struggles to understand the information she reads, so am hoping to locate a copy. Amazon has a copy for sale for 500.00. Yes, I said $500. Unfortunately that is far out of my lane. I am willing to purchase it from you, if you're willing to part with it. Hopefully for less than 500.00 lol. I do understand if you're not willing to part with it. Please let me know. Love your content by the way. It has really helped us in picking the best bibles, concordance, etc. Please keep the videos coming. Blessings! AH

[@DiscipleDojo]

Contact me through the website and I can get it to you. www.discipledojo.org/contact

[@Following_Jesus_In_Faith]

Thank you.... I will right now.

[@Following_Jesus_In_Faith]

@@DiscipleDojo Hello, I sent an email to the website under financial section but didn't hear back, so resent it under under ministry and still haven't heard back anything. Is there a better way to contact you in regards to this? I would really like to purchase the bible from you, if you're willing. Please let me know. Thank you.

[@DiscipleDojo]

I got your email and I responded. You may want to check your spam folder. It would have come from discipledojo's gmail account.

[@DiscipleDojo]

You can also follow me on instagram (@jamesmichael7) and message me there or through the Disciple Dojo Facebook page. But I have the Bible and am happy to send it to you, I just need your mailing address.

[@adairjanney7109]

What are you talking about, the holy spirit? Where is it? You must not read the same scripture I do, I believe in the holy spirit 1000% which is why I know it is missing, it has been removed from the world, for whatever reason, maybe we are in the little season or something, but its clear to me that we lack the holy spirit

[@76JStucki]

Jesus as the embodiment of all Israel represents and was meant to be. NOT Jesus “replacing” Israel. Jesus coming into the world THROUGH Israel.

[@DiscipleDojo]

@@76JStucki an oak tree doesn't "replace" an acorn.

[@BeckyCathell]

So, been trying to figure out, at what point did the land of lsrael begin to be called "Israel? Should that still hold true today outside of todays Israels borders? I know that is opening a can of worms. but was trying to link today with the Bible land boarders. I can see how this turned into one big mess. All Jews are not Israel, but Israel is people, and land. But Yes makes the Bible make much more sense. All Gods plan.

[@DiscipleDojo]

@@BeckyCathell before the divided monarchy and then not again until the mid-20th century, as far as I'm aware.

[@SaneNoMore]

I must confess that while I understood how the explanation and process is different than normative Replacement Theology I didn’t understand how “fulfillment theology” doesn’t effectively just become a different version of it. You still end up with those in Christ are the true Israel (Jew or Gentile) thus the ethnic and religious Jews (not in Christ) are not really Israel. So effectively you still end up with the body of Christ replacing (or fulfilling) the natural Jews. I’m not even trying to say your wrong I’m just confused as to how this just doesn’t end up effectively being a distinction without a difference.

[@DiscipleDojo]

The difference is that God keeps His promise *to Israel* that Gentiles will be brought in alongside Jews. The church isn't some "new" or "gentile" thing. It is God remaining true to His promises to Covenant Israel all along. It's only the same as Replacement theology in that it agrees that ethnicity doesn't make one an heir to the Covenant, so Jews who reject Messiah are "broken off" from the tree of Israel.

[@deedeebriski5681]

Jesus is Jesus. Israel is Israel. You are reading your view into the text.

[@lark8356]

Grace and Peace to you. It me: Dispensationalist. I agree that Ekklesia existed prior to Pentecost. Jesus used the word twice to refer to people of his time. With that said, I think it's fine to think of the church as new for 2 reasons. 1. The Church didn't become the Body of Christ until Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles were baptized into Christ. 2. I think Paul makes clear in many places, including Ephesians 3, that the inclusion of Gentiles into the Body of Christ was a mystery until the apostles, mostly Paul with a smidgen of Peter, revealed it. Perhaps it's more precise to say that the church/Assembly Evolved instead of saying that it was created at Pentecost.

[@DiscipleDojo]

Have you read much about "Progressive Dispensationalism" (i.e. Robert Saucy)? I feel like you may be more in that camp than the traditional Dispensationalist.

[@lark8356]

@@DiscipleDojo I've never heard of progressive dispensationalism or Saucy. I'll look them up. Thanks.

[@lark8356]

​@@DiscipleDojo This is what I've found so far on Progressive Dispensationalism. "The greatest debate between those who hold to traditional dispensationalism and those who hold to progressive dispensationalism concerns the issue of David’s throne. In the Davidic Covenant, God promised David that he would never permanently cease to have a descendant sitting on the throne. Although there have been times prior to Christ’s coming-and presently there is no one sitting on David’s throne as king over the kingdom-this promise to David will be ultimately fulfilled by God when Jesus Christ returns to set up and rule the kingdom on earth (Revelation 19:11 - 20:6). The debate is this: progressive dispensationalism says that Christ is right now at this present time sitting on David’s throne and ruling. Progressive dispensationalists do not deny a literal 1,000-year kingdom that Christ will rule over. But they say that He is already sitting and ruling on David’s throne. This is known as "already but not yet." Jesus is already on David’s throne but has not yet completely fulfilled the promise of God to David for a descendant to sit on his throne. Central Bible texts for this issue are Psalm 132:11; Psalm 110:1-4; Acts 2:30; and Acts 3:19-22. Traditional dispensationalists hold that, although Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father and is obviously ruling, this does not mean that He is sitting on the throne of David. They say that progressive dispensationalism assumes too much. Jesus can sit on a throne and rule now and not be sitting on the throne of David." I supposed I'd side with the Progressives in this debate, although I see virtually no functional difference between the two views, and I don't see the ramifications of the views being dramatically dissimilar to one another. I do believe that Christ received full authority as described in Matthew 28:18-20, but he's waiting until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (Romans 11) to establish the fullness of his kingdom on Earth.

[@andumenged]

what are all those idols in your background? 😂

[@KerryStarr-lk2yg]

The Jews in Israel aren’t even the original hebrews descendants

[@adairjanney7109]

Yeah but Israel probably isnt what you think it is

[@gusposey8218]

Ridiculous. Using the Bible as a guide for modern life is like using a book about a donkey to fix your car.

[@DiscipleDojo]

Spoken like someone who knows virtually nothing about the Bible but likes to troll youtube comments sections with irrelevant posturing.