Discourse Collective Reacts! Stand to Reason freewill

[@sempersuffragium9951]

So, I by no means defend the theist proposition, but here's a challenge for your argument. If you have ever played chess against a robot, you know it knows your every move - that is to say, he knows all possible moves and the probability you'll take one or the other. It also, before you even make a move, already knows how to beat you, regardless of what move you make. Within the closed system that is a chess game, couldn't it be said, that the bot is omniscient? Does that mean, that the chess player doesn't have free will (in relation to the game of chess, other free will arguments aside)? And if we think of the world as a sort of closed system, couldn't a being who knew all the possible moves and their probability be in fact even more omniscient, than one which just knew the future as if it were history. And such a beings existence wouldn't contradict the existence of free willed individuals

[@TheDiscourseCollective]

Arguably, even with quantum effects, there are a limited number possible outcomes in this or any other universe. The number is vast, but it's still limited. We can apply this same argument to chess, as you say. Our action plan becomes a bet if we know all possibilities and the corresponding likelihood. We'd take the best odds on every move and keep hoping this betting strategy is a winning one - but there is no guarantee that it would be. Now let's apply this to the Christian God. Imagine God is simply a gambler. With every decision that a human makes His "betting table" updates and he continues to attempt to implement His plan based on the resultant odds. It's an intriguing idea! Sadly Christians painted themselves into a corner here with the phrase "Infallible plan" and "perfect God" and "all knowing". These phrases, when combined, lead to a situation where their God cannot be wrong. Therefore He cannot "bet". He must know all things ahead of time so he can be perfect. A perfect God requires perfect knowledge. But I love the idea of "God the gambler"!

[@sempersuffragium9951]

@@TheDiscourseCollective Yes, this could be one interpretation too, but I didn't mean it quite like that. You see, the chess bot, when he sees you make a move, he calculates, not only the most likely way for the game to play out, but all the possible ways. And for each of your moves, even the extremely unlikely ones, he has a strategy to beat you. Now, let's apply this to God. Assuming, as you say, that there is indeed a limited (though immensely vast) number of situations and human actions therein, an omniscient God would indeed know all of them, and be able to make a plan, not just for the most likely, but for all the possible ones. So whatever your (still totally free) choice ends up being, God already has a plan for it. In this way an idea of an infallible plan is reconcilable with the idea of an individual having free will. God still has a plan, whatever move you make (let's just say he knows in each situation how to achieve his goal of you accepting him or something like that - he will achieve his aim, and he knows how, yet you are still free to choose whichever action you will)

[@acex222]

The chess robot knows every rule that can be applied, and how to optimally apply those rules. It doesn't have omniscience because it doesn't know the move you'll make, it just optimally moves.

[@sempersuffragium9951]

@@acex222 My point is, that a chess robot knows all the possible moves you might make, and has a strategy calculated for whichever you make. Now, though this robot doesn't know, which path, you'll take, he can still what his next move is going to be if you pick option A, B, C or whatever. And God could be analogous. Hence being sort of omniscient without taking away your free will

[@acex222]

Jesus is like a Christian Gucci. It's just branding to evangelicals.

[@TheDiscourseCollective]

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