Discussion: Why I Didn't Buy an Elm Eco Pro 2...

[@Jmunn4z]

Great vid, I share these exact same sentiments and it’s the reason I chose the JFJ and also the reason I found your channel. Keep it up bro! (side note: my first JFJ finally came in today, and so far I’ve ran two disks using your methods. SAVED BOTH!! One was a dvd in poor shape - my kids; the other was a XBOX 360 game I played the hell out of). Thanks again bro. 👌🏽💪🏽

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

Good work 🙌🙌 happy to hear they both came out good 👍

[@pdusainc]

I've owned the JFJ and it was hit or miss with discs plus it left swirls upon good lighting, I've bought a Eco pro 2 and its a game changer in fact I own 2(one machine buffs and the other polishes) plus I still use my JFJ as a sander only, put it this way if your planning on reselling games for many years to come get it, They also drop sales on their machines couple times a year

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

I can’t really justify getting one because i never have issues getting a mirror finish using the jfj. Of course i don’t use the jfj pads or compounds at all, which i always tell people not to use their stuff. The only elm machine i can justify is their 50 disc one but that’s probably a couple years away for me.

[@PartenJoe]

I have a eco pro 2. It seems like its a bad thing to have mins but it's really not that bad. 99.9% of discs get a mirror finish with just a 30 sec cycle and by time the 800mins are up on the machine you run out of compound anyways. And to get a new key card you have to buy it with said compound. The 800mins lasts me about 5 -6 months. It's really not as bad as you think.

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

So it’s not that the mins go quick or anything. I just don’t like knowing i am buying the ability to even run the machine on top of supplies. The machine is amazing though

[@PartenJoe]

@@GamingRenewedLLC Right but my point is you're going to have to re buy the compound regardless and you'll never run out of mins before you run out of the compound. So the amount your spending to "use" the machine is the same as any other resurfacer of that level

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

@PartenJoe No. Go look at how much their compound is by itself. It's $19.95. Then go look how much replacement pads are. They are $14 for the rough and another $14 for the mirror finish ones. So let's call it $28 because you want each type. So together, that's about $50. To get the same 4 pads, compound, and 800 min key card is $90. So I am paying $40 just to run the machine all because of the key card. Edit: no matter if the compound runs out or not it doesn't matter. You are still paying $40 dollars for 800 mins of use that isn't tied to normal supplies at all. Just so the machine works when you hit the button. It's more expensive than other machines to run because of that added cost.

[@user-ph5ro8xl4o]

Its a bit of a sham definitely, however, this market is very small and limited and i can see the only way for them to stay afloat as a conpany is by making sure its customers continue to buy their conpounds for their machines.

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

If that was true then they would do the keycard on every machine they sell. They only target the entry level one and you are not paying for the compound. You are literally paying for minutes to use your machine. The compound on their site is $10-$15. The pads are like $25 or something. But the only way to buy a keycard is with the compound, pads, and keyboard bundle which sells for $80. That is bs. They are literally charging you $40 to use the machine for 800 minutes. That has zero to do with making money from compound.

[@user-ph5ro8xl4o]

@@GamingRenewedLLC no yeah it is pretty bull, but I'm just saying from their perspective it probably wouldn't be a viable business to enter and dedicate time to if they only ever sold their units and that's it. No need to purchase anything else from them. Rarely does a companies products come without the consumer also purchasing more from them related to the product. If you're asking why there isn't competition I'd imagine there's not enough long term gain for a businessman to dedicate his time and resources into. I mean say I create the best resurfacer tomorrow for $200 and no minutes. Every reseller and store owner would own one in a few months and then the market for disc resurfacer would be killed. I'm just saying this is capitalism at work, and I totally get your point, but I also understand their perspective. It's either the minutes or there is no high quality resurfacers being sold and we'd all be using drills. Someone has to dedicate the time to building that business and I mean I know I'm not doing it if the market is that small and return customers will be non-existent

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

I look at it like a car. Because they essentially are the same format. Dealership sells you the car, and they can also fix the car if it breaks down. So they get both the sale and possibly repair sales throughout the life of that car. Elm essentially sells you the $200 machine, or one of their higher ones for thousands of dollars, and then they also repair and maintain those machines for you as well. Of course you pay them to do it, but in their case, they are the only ones who can repair the machines. Cars can be taken to any shop outside the dealer for repair but those resurfacing machines basically are Elm only repair. No reason they shouldn’t be able to stay in business from selling you the pads, compound, and repairs after selling you the product upfront. Pads definitely aren’t costly to manufacture and neither is the compound so i am sure the markup on them is a very good margin. Selling minutes means you actually do not own the machine at all. Because if you ran out of minutes but have compound left over, which Elm says you probably will because they give more than 800 minutes worth, you essentially can’t use the machine until you buy another $80 bundle to get pads and compound you don’t need just to get access to more minutes. Imagine if a car company sold you a car and then even if it had gas and fully functional, you woke up and forgot to put miles on your keys so now you can’t drive it until you buy more miles lol. Oh and you can’t just buy miles, it also comes with an oil change and brakes because miles are only sold in that bundle lol.

[@user-ph5ro8xl4o]

@@GamingRenewedLLC huge thing youre over looking in your analogy is that everybody needs a car. Not only that, some people like to buy two to a hundred cars. Those cars need insurance, there's aftermarket parts, gas, car shows, car races, ect. Literally dozens of other markets for a car company to extract more money from their customers if they so chose to. But again, there's so many people that need cars compared to people who need a disc resurfacer. We're talking millions to thousands. Your jumping around my original point which is there isn't enough of a market in this niche for there to justify there being a business to provide it to you. Only reason we do now is because the minute system makes it a viable business for them. Without the minutes, whoever runs the company, would likely just run a company that sells different products. And you wouldn't have the eco pro. Maybe there'd be something worse, who knows. But there's not no reason why there isn't more competition here's always a reason and I'm sure I'm telling you the reason. Also everything you listed that elm can sell you, you can buy from another company for cheaper most likely. AliExpress I'm sure sells all of that at close enough quality. And come on man. Are you really trying to make the point that car repairs market is anywhere close to in value that eco resurfacers repairs would be. I mean they don't even break often and chances are someone who owns the machines either know themself or knows someone who could fix it themselves. Especially someone in video game reselling. Edit: just want to finish off with, I don't care to convince you one way or the other I'm just stating the facts of the situation. I mean there's not even foreign brands to buy from this is literally it. Take it or leave it and you chose to leave it and that's fine. But as a business owner yourself with time you seem valuable, I'd imagine you can see the point I'm making in that someone has to make that time sacrifice to get into this business and why would they choose to make this their business to dedicate themselves to if they can go with a more viable market?

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

Oh no i am looking at this as healthy debate lol. Not looking to convince you either. Just two people expressing views is all. I made the analogy to cars because even though all those options are there, any shop not associated with the manufacturer can do the repairs and the parts can be aftermarket. So the manufacturer doesn’t benefit from them as much. If Elm needed to lock you in so bad to just survive, they would use the keycard on all their machines. They don’t use them on the $7000 one or the $15,000 one either. Only the $1500 one. So only for the “cheapest” one they need to lock you into their products but for the higher end ones, which costs significantly more money and time to make, they can let you use it without that lock? It doesn’t make sense to me.

[@davidthetoyman2156]

Yeah man rip off. They updated the mod so it doesn't work on the new firmware. What is the other option jvc is a mess

[@GamingRenewedLLC]

Jfj is good but it’s not for everyone. What i don’t understand is why there isn’t more competition in this space lol. Like it’s basically jfj or elm. Weird nobody else seems to make anything