Divers React to Girl crushed by her drysuit

[@swimfor1000yrs]

If the diver who tried to save her reads this, we all are proud of your efforts. What that instructor said to you is unforgivable! You were her hero and you were there for her in her time of need. We are praying for you! Hugs to you!❤

[@tomtech1537]

Imagine what's going through his mind, even though he's tried everything, leaving her means she is 100% dead... Hard not to feel guilty for that then the psycopathic instructor blames him... He might not have heard the full story for years until it was reported on with that hanging over his head.

[@Contrimex]

@@swimfor1000yrs I can pass it on to him. I’m his son and I’m sure his heart would be warmed to see this comment. Thank you!

[@swimfor1000yrs]

@@Contrimex thank you so much! Your father is such a brave man. I hope that he will feel the love and admiration that the diving community feels for him!🩷

[@wakingtheworld]

@@Contrimex❤

[@ianmycroft6979]

@@Contrimex I don't believe any responsible diver would say that your dad did anything wrong. He did the best that he could in the circumstances! I'd have him as a dive buddy anytime! 👌👌

[@haydenmatthewconnor6547]

Imagine being the only person who actually tried to do something right and help a fellow diver, endangering your own life, and having the person most directly culpable say it's your fault.

[@angelaurban8812]

@haydenmatthewconnor6547 I didn't know someone was with her so closely at the end. So sad and horrible.

[@Savage_Thinker]

this is murder and she is trying to escape accountability for murder

[@mr.tellithowitisz]

Women are allergic to accountability.

[@tigerman1978]

Not while scubadiving, but Ive been in a situation similar to that when EMS couldnt find the location and blamed us for giving them wrong instructions. Sucked for them the EMS central has audio logs and our explanations and the audio logs matching up. Still feels like a bigass betrayal when professionals tries to pass "the blame" off after people have died. It turned out the person had a 0% chance of surviving anyways so the "blame game" was completely useless in the first place.

[@ShiningDarknes]

@@Savage_Thinker 44lbs... yeah this was a murder, gross negligence homicide at best. There is no way 44lbs was needed for her to be neutrally buoyant at the surface, especially with a dry suit that could not be inflated which the instructor was aware of.

[@MattyCurtis1]

Idk why people complain about you guys pausing and giving your expertise. That's literally the whole reason I love this channel. And a lot of the points you make could possibly save someone's life. Love you guys, love the content. Please keep it coming lol

[@SOLDOZER]

People want to see bodies and hear about gore. They dont want to hear them ramble for 5 minutes about drysuit designs.

[@rchltrrs]

@MattyCurtis1 1000% agree. The channel is literally called diveTALK, they talk about diving!!

[@jamiemcdonald4279]

@@MattyCurtis1 it's the whole point of a "react video".

[@roro-v3z]

they are no experts

[@Momma-_-775]

@@SOLDOZER Sad but true🤷‍♀️ Such is life… & death. FACT(S)

[@kuaaajo]

I hope bob gets to watch this video and know how many people support him and know he wasn't in the wrong. Bob, you're a hero. I know It's hard to believe and it maybe gonna take a while. But I really hope one day you get to see it that way.

[@ABCDiver]

"The group of divers is qualified so the instructors forego the customary pre-dive checks" is the same as "this group of surgeons is qualified so they forego the customary pre-surgery hand-washing"

[@dez6278]

The thing is, Linnea wasn't qualified. She was in a suit she didn't know how to use for the first time, and was missing pieces.

[@tigerman1978]

Even when Im out diving with dive ops Ive used for a decade and have 100s of dives with and dive with buddies I have 100s of dives with, they STILL expect people to be present for the briefing and the last thing they remind us of before we kit up is to do our checks. Not doing so with new divers is just insanity..

[@st5637]

​@@dez6278 Well that is all on her, she should have practiced or got trained in a low risk situation. I dive in California and because of the cold water got a dry suit. My friends were using them and I essentially taught my self. It really is not hard, she messed up and it is on her.

[@dez6278]

@@st5637 You must be kidding? She was AT the training class but they didn't train her, and skipped the safety checks, and lost track of the students while she died. She paid them to train her and they advised her to buy the dry suit.

[@valerierodger]

@@st5637 if she had the attitude that she was teaching herself, it would be on her. She understood that she didn’t know what she didn’t know and that’s why she was paying people to instruct her. It is completely on them.

[@chasemcdaniel3620]

The student who tried to save her was not responsible for insuring her gear was safe. He saw a bad situation and risked his health trying to help. That's heroic. The instructor was negligent. I'm not even a diver and I would want everyone's gear checked out.

[@henricomonterosa4534]

I feel so sorry for him. Imagine having to take the decision of leaving her in order not to die. I hope he finds mental peace with this situation someday.

[@Corn_Pops_Rusty_Razor]

Its literally called a buddy check...they are responsible for checking each others gear

[@marcwanagas1234]

@@Corn_Pops_Rusty_Razor he wasn’t actually even her dive buddy. His dive buddy bailed for the surface and he happened to notice her struggling. Instead he had to see her die in front of him

[@currentusername3533]

@@Corn_Pops_Rusty_Razor glad to see someone already corrected you

[@tourbillon13]

@@currentusername3533 Say what? 🫣

[@elizabethbrammer7022]

I’m not a diver, but I am a criminal defense attorney… Woody is right on all points. I waited to comment and hold judgment until the end of the video. Snow absolutely crosses the threshold to get an indictment (which just needs preponderance of the evidence) to go in front of a criminal court. Based upon the facts presented in just this video, Snow would almost certainly be found to be guilty of criminal negligence, as would be the shop for their advice. Some points here: 1) PADI is responsible in a civil court (hence the settlement) of negligent supervision of the instructors they certify. Basic agent/principle relationship applies here. She was acting within the scope of her certification. 2) The shop held itself out to be an expert, and would be found civilly liable under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. If you hold yourself out to be an expert and give advice (whether medical, legal, or diving) you will be held to that standard. 3) Any instructor present was criminally negligent. Mens rea just refers to whether or not it was premeditated (separating murder from manslaughter i.e. negligent homicide). She didn’t plan it, but she essentially got behind the wheel of a car under the influence, and showed reckless indifference to another’s life through ALL of her actions. Thank you guys for always being so candid and explaining things. RIP to that poor girl, and I hope they DO find Snow guilty. (And there’s no statute of limitations we likely have to worry about here, thank goodness)

[@Mike-01234]

Wouldn't criminal charges be dependent on state manslaughter laws seems like some states are different. This kind of reminds me of the shooting on the rust movie Alec Baldwin was involved in.

[@donnamunday6749]

@@Mike-01234 Montana meets very similar criteria to what was outlined in the Wikipedia article that was read in this video. In the state of Montana there are several types of criminal negligence but the main ones that could apply here are negligent endangerment (fine of $1,000 and/or a year in prison), criminal endangerment (the penalty for which is a $50,000 fine and/or a 10 year prison sentence) and negligent homicide (20 year prison sentence and can also include a $50,000 fine). It is possible Snow could be found guilty of all three of these crimes given the egregious nature of this incident and the intentional acts taken to try and cover it up. The other instructor could face charges for negligent endangerment and maybe even criminal endangerment given that they took no action to enforce correct standards in spite of knowing that it was dangerous. They can also be sued in a Montana civil court under comparative negligence. For more information on the criteria for negligence specific to Montana, you can look up Montana Title 45, Chapter 5, Sections 107, 207 - 208. For specifics on comparative negligence you can look up Montana Title 27, Chapter 1, Section 702.

[@yoshyusmc]

Thanks for the legal perspective as I know your time is valuable. :)

[@FknNefFy]

You sure you're not a prosecutor?

[@FknNefFy]

​@@yoshyusmc costly

[@alisonanthony1228]

I'm not an Instructor, but I am a drysuit diver. If someone said to me that they didn't have a drysuit hose on their regs but they wanted to dive anyway, the first thing I'd do is lock their kit away from them, the second would be to call the men in the white coats! I dive a neoprene suit so the squeeze isn't as bad as with a trilam, but I did forget to attach my hose on one dive and got to about 15m before I realised I couldn't move my arms any more! My buddy attached it for me (after she'd finished laughing!) and we continued the dive. After de-kitting, I found the most amazing bruises where my chest valve and shoukder dump had been and the rest of my body looked like I'd been lashed with a whip. That was entirely my own fault - I'd had a freeflow so I dashed out and swapped cylinders while my buddy stayed in the water. We'd done a full buddy check before we entered the water and I was rushing to get back in. Lesson learned! For "instructors" to allow that poor girl to enter the water with no hose, no servicing on a second hand bit of kit, no briefing and no pool time in that drysuit is worse than negligence.

[@thesanfranciscoseahorse473]

What does someone do in such a case if the chest-infiltrator hose were to fail at depth? Or, in your situation where your arms were unable to move, if you (for whatever reason) didn't have a diving partner to help you re-connect your hose, would there have been any procedure to self-rescue? Could you intentionally flood the suit and equalize pressure? What is the emergency procedure in such a case if the suit is squeezing you and you can't fill it with air.

[@WendyTorenvlietMeijs]

@@thesanfranciscoseahorse473 flood the suit. In this case it would have made her even heavier, but she might have had a chance because she could at least breathe. But - without a buddy flooding it would probably not have been possible since she probably couldn't even move, let alone reach a seal to flood it by herself

[@l33t007]

Thank you for mentioning pool time. I currently have no SCUBA experience but I am a Florida native and I've witnessed about 10 "pool times" in my life while out doing something else. I honestly thought ALL types of SCUBA diving required pool time, especially for anyone's first time doing any part of it. What would you suggest to an adult who want to learn how to SCUBA look for in a class/instructor or a website you trust that shows what to look for in a safe and competent dive school? My husband and I would like to learn but because we live in Florida we are well aware of all the fake dive schools, dive school who use fake instructors/uncertified instructors/or are non licensed and if you're not already involved with a group or.person it's hard to know where to go. Any advice for divers would be greatly appreciated.

[@patrickday4206]

@@alisonanthony1228 yeah maybe in warm swallow water but this is crazy asking for problems.

[@shaunofthedead3000]

Totally ignorant about diving, so for you divers this may sound stupid... Aren't those low pressure hoses a quick connect design? So, in theory, couldn't a diver have grabbed onto her, flood his suit, disconnect it from his suit and connect it to hers and flood hers? Again, totally ignorant of diving equipment. It's just one of those things I'm curious if it could have been done. And if it could, wouldn't the instructor be versed in this as an emergency option and therefore a proper instructor could have definitely saved this girl and thereby also saved the other STUDENT from such a horrific experience...

[@TheOnlyRealVeniVidiVici]

The U.S. Attorney’s office of Montana has declined to press criminal charges against a dive instructor who was involved in a incident where a Missoula woman drowned in Glacier National Park’s Lake McDonald. The family, in turn, responded to the decision by the U.S. Attorney’s office. “We have grieved the loss of our daughter since the day she left this Earth. Now, we grieve the loss of fairness, justice, and competence in the public officials who are charged with keeping us safe. This is not only a loss for Linnea and our family, but also for the citizens of the State of Montana,” it states.

[@CharlieApples]

I worked at Glacier National Park when this happened and every single member of staff there was devastated and outraged. We all take safety very seriously and undergo multiple wilderness training courses every year to keep ourselves and park visitors as safe as possible in such a remote and inhospitable environment. Even though I’m only a recreational diver myself, as a park ranger I still had to do drysuit training as well as controlled wetsuit training in glacial lakes and whitewater rapids-you never really get used to being thrown in or capsized into fast moving ice water, but drowning is the number one cause of death at Glacier and most other national parks. It is and was so infuriating that a third party company that we had previously trusted to operate in the park for cold water diving training could be so incredibly negligent and underhanded, when even junior park employees doing weed control and surveying have to undergo water safety training. This case is now an infamous one in Montana, and I’m of the opinion that the diving company responsible should have closed their doors years ago. They are still operating as quite the profitable little venture out of Missoula, and I genuinely worry for the safety of all the unwitting tourists who pay them for their services.

[@l33t007]

Thank you for sharing your concerns and also showing how much effort and training our parks employees put in to do their jobs and help keep the public safe. None of you get 1/1000th of the credit you deserve. I take it that the 3rd party company your referencing is SNOW and/or the same company involved in this video. If I am wrong please correct me because I want to make sure I never use this company and make sure none of my family who love to travel and try new experiences ever use this company.

[@CharlieApples]

@@l33t007 (Edit) I just checked and the original company Gull Diving and Scuba has permanently closed! 🥳 Unfortunately it looks like some of the original Gull employees have transferred to a new Missoula company called Missoula SCUBA and Snorkel. I can’t tell if the owners/operators are the same or if it’s affiliated directly, and unfortunately it’s the only diving company in the area. So basically, even if it’s a completely different company under different management, anyone who works in diving in SW Montana is going to try and work there. Gull still has a sports and outdoors store and business in Missoula though. I think it’s safe to say I won’t be signing up for their guided outdoor programs.

[@mrmotofy]

Also why I think Mbl towers should be installed in parks for better communications, even if it was enough to provide a minimal coverage

[@ioidt]

I wonder why they didnot ease the student in from shalower depth (ie 40ft) and further from the ledge ... is that possible there? The ledge is a bad location for first equipment training dive.

[@naeka9752]

Knowing that they tried to blame the student makes my blood boil, she even lied about it. That poor guy

[@jsomebody2289]

Not only did they not do a pre-dive check, they did not do a pre-dive check with someone using USED specialty dive equipment that they've NEVER used before that takes an INCREASED skill level with already known MISSING parts. As Woody said, 'What more' is necessary for this to be grossly negligent.

[@tjroelsma]

Agreed, a pre-dive check would not only have pointed out the missing part(s), but would also have found that insane amount of weight on her belt. I'm not a diver, but at 6ft 4inches and at over 260 pounds, I doubt that I could swim to the surface with 44 pounds of extra weight, as I hear these guys talk about carrying maybe 14-15 pounds and they don't seem small to me. This was a slender young woman, possibly weighing in at about a third of my weight. This was an accident that never should have happenend and I'd argue that the dive instructor should have been charged with criminal negligence with a fall-back to gross negligence, because as the guys say: what did the instructor do right on this dive? The question is: who put in all that weight? The only scenario that I can come up with that might offer an explanation, is that as she bought the suit secondhand, the seller just stuffed all the weights that came with the suit into the belt to make sure they were included in the sale and didn't get lost while transporting it.

[@TrappedinSLC]

They didn't even need to do a pre-dive check on site for that, they could have done it at the shop, which would be the logical place to look over something since you'd have more parts available if needed.

[@troop1026]

She should be locked up and never be let out. I own a dive shop in Montana and I have Linnea’s picture in my shop so everyone in the shop always remembers that we have the awesome responsibility to protect our students. We meet or exceed the standards. Dry suit was not a recreational suit. Different connector. Snow told her you don’t need it. I have personally talk to the mother and the family lawyer. Debra Snow killed her.

[@TrappedinSLC]

The fact that no criminal charges were brought is baffling.

[@pattygreen8064]

this had to have been premeditated murder , 44 lbs on that tiny girl. there is no way this isn't murder.

[@strider00111]

Was she open water certified? If she was, why did she have 44 lbs weights strapped on? Proper buoyancy is basics 101. It sounds like she slipped through the cracks in her first certification.

[@BikesandMusic]

Literally the biggest problem that most women are not held accountable.

[@Andrea-sp9gj]

Got to be honest , I am diving in europe, asia , Red Sea . I don’t think there was ever a pre dive check by the instructor , it was always left to you. So for me , of everything the instructor did this is the only point i would not hold her criminally responsible

[@jdfriar]

I was trained by naui for open water. years later i was cleaning boat bottoms on a day when it was suddenly cold. my uncle/ boss said here you can use my old dry suit. I had no info on its use. I didn't go deeper than 5 feet which saved my life. the suit leaked badly and filled up like a balloon. it got scary when i tried to get out. make sure you know your equipment before you're in the ocean.

[@thesanfranciscoseahorse473]

And always dive with a knife. I've heard of divers who nearly died not being able to get out of the water with a flooded dry-suit. I think in that situation, if I really couldn't climb out I'd just cut the suit off, maybe around the feet and let it drain while climbing a ladder (assuming there's a ladder). Glad you were okay.

[@jiminauburn5073]

@@thesanfranciscoseahorse473 That happened on a dive I was on. We were all dive masters and very experienced. We were in drysuits and we were diving in a narrow straight that has a very fast current ripping through it. It is like a thrill ride. A great dive. But one of the divers I was with caught the rubber seal around his wrist on a barnacle during the dive. His suit flooded and he had a hard time getting to the surface. When we got to the surface, he was having a hard time staying afloat and had to drop his weight belt. It was very difficult to get him out of the water and onto the boat. We had to wind up taking his boots off and cutting the rubber booties to his drysuit so that the water could drain out.

[@jdfriar]

@thesanfranciscoseahorse473 I had 3 knives because fishing lines in the harbor. It never even occurred to me I was so stared.i just started taking my equipment off.

[@genkmiz]

As a non-diver I appreciate the in-between commentary to elucidate some of these concepts. The negligence of the operators here is just outright horrific. That poor woman went into the water fully trusting the people who couldn't bother paying attention to even one of the multitude of issues she was having. Its criminal.

[@mrmotofy]

But it's complicated...cuz it's still and adult going out there of her own control and free will. They literally can't legally stop her from doing anything except getting on there boat.

[@genkmiz]

@mrmotofy Yeah I suppose you're right on that, she could've decided she wasn't comfortable and opted to not go. But there is something to be said about being a student with the instructors giving irresponsible advice and false assurances. They could have told her that a dry suit would be a terrible idea without certification and testing in safer conditions, they definitely should not have given her the false idea that not having that hose was fine, and at the absolute least she shouldn't have been left struggling with no one watching her at all besides one other student.

[@mrmotofy]

@@genkmiz I agree there were a lot of mistakes...but ultimately SHE was old enough to know better. SHE was able to feel the squeeze early on and go hey this isn't right abort. When I dive, I'll take suggestions from others but ultimately I'M responsible for my safety

[@stankatbarrell9878]

@@mrmotofy she was probably just anxious about saying anything or thought it was normal. This was not her fault. She just wanted to learn.

[@mrmotofy]

@@stankatbarrell9878 It WAS her fault, she's an adult walking into a dangerous situation which was easily avoidable. Stop pushing personal responsibility and blame off on others. Nobody made her do it, nobody forced her to keep going. Others here in the comments had similar failures etc and stopped, she could have too.

[@saschaganser9671]

They simply murdered that girl. I have no idea how the court didn`t found the instructor and the dive shop liable. There was a report online and a documentation, way more to that story. They started super late, went to this remote lake, without lamps, without proper procedures, no safety plan, no oxygen, etc. - the scene must have been pure chaos. Padi stated that due to the previous accident, the dive center was suspended and thus not longer covered by Padi. When examining Linneas body, the doctor removed several KGs from her pockets (of the suite), so she had lead + stones as she didn`t sink in the beginning. They only figured that out later and then understood what has happened, as they understood when they recovered the BCD that it had weight in it too. If you think about the circumstances in total, the agency and the instructor have violated every rule of diving and every safety standard. They allowed a girl not certified for dry suite to dive one. They didn`t check it, as the inflator didn`t fit. Linnea had no idea about safety procedures or what to do if the drysuit floods. She had no means to prevent the squeeze, nor did someone tell her how to use the drysuit. Which diveshops allows a student in gear that she`s not certified to? Even worse, the encouraged her to get one, as it would be to cold otherwise. An inexperienced diver, with gear way advanced for her knowledge, training and understanding. Then loosing the students under water, not noticing Linnea is in trouble and the very unprofessional behavior afterwards, trying to cover it up and blame her buddy. How can you even let them alone when they have a course, in a lake without currents? This goes way beyond, as somehow the instructor and the assistant instructor have both not been able to handle the workload. In my opinion they simply murdered that poor girls, and i can`t understand why Snow didn`t go to jail for it. Padi did a bit a cheap bailout, you must acknowledged that. I can`t judge if that dive center was suspended or not. But i can judge that if it was, it should be public knowledge, and if it wasn`t, the question is why. P.S. there`s more to this case, but everything that is mentioned in the video is already enough for every diver to shake his head and it should be enough for every court and judge to find the responsible people guilty. I can not understand how nobody really got blamed for this. It was totally avoidable just by using simple, mandatory and not discussable procedures - with a bit of common sense.

[@toscadonna]

I agree. I think was deliberate homicide. How do you accidentally do EVERYTHING wrong? It’s the same thing as Audrey Mestre. That was also homicide by her husband. He did everything wrong, and it had to be on purpose. A broken clock is still right twice per day, but not the supposed professional divers?

[@saschaganser9671]

@@toscadonna The case of Audrey is probably that they tried to gain attention by not only breaking the world record but also doing a super deep rescue. At least that was speculated and it did sound reasonable to me. The difference is, what Audrey did is extreme, trying to set a depth record for free diving is a risk itself. Linnea was doing a training dive, for an advanced open water - that`s only the 2nd dive certification in a long line. There was nothing dangerous to it at all, during training you usually don`t end up in any difficult situation, you simulate them in the easiest condition you can find. I don`t know what went wrong in this dive center, but it is clear that it was a lot.

[@toscadonna]

@@saschaganser9671Her husband didn’t have proper medical professionals at the dive, he was the only one to check her tank that would bring her back up and it was empty, he didn’t have the appropriate rescue divers at each depth, didn’t have a chopper medevac on call, and his little show of a “deep water rescue” was just him showboating as a narcissistic psychopath pretending to save her. It was homicide just like the Linnea incident was. The dive instructors didn’t like Linnea-probably jealous of her being young and accomplished, and they decided to put her into a dry suit and add 44 lbs of weight to her. Just like Audrey’s husband was jealous of her abilities. They all got away with murder.

[@ppo2424]

Audreys husband oversaw the entire dive, he was responsible for safety. He directly controlled the O2 kept people away from the tanks and they were empty. He killed her, period.​@@saschaganser9671

[@coreylaberge6005]

The case was never tried in court. A civil claim was filed. PADI unsuccesfully argued that they should not be a party in the proceeding. It was settled out of court. Presumably because counsel for PADI advised taking the certainty of settlement and avoiding a costly and very public trial that would put their fate in the hands of a judge and jury. No criminal proceedings have ever been brought to a court.

[@ianmycroft6979]

Bob Gentry wasnt a qualified rescue diver. He did the best that he could under the circumstances on the day!! He should get a medal for trying his best to the point of risking his own life! What a great man!

[@FknNefFy]

Too little too late. He should have done his buddy check. He knew she was in improper gear and didn't know what she was doing 🙅🏼‍♀️ He's one step above the instructors though. That was ultimately their job to keep them all safe

[@joshbridges8410]

@@FknNefFy Bob was not her dive buddy. He was in another pair. He just saw it happen and went after her.

[@bbl2019]

That no one was charged criminally in this case is a gross miscarriage of justice and negligent in the part of the courts

[@FamiliarAnomaly]

If the instructor had been a man they probably would have charged them.

[@coreylaberge6005]

Matters are brought to court. Judges aren't responsible for investigating and prosecuting so it's not the courts. In fact, settlement only happened after a judge denied PADI's attempt to be struck as a defendant from the civil proceeding... But I do agree that it really is a miscarriage. Sounds like the prosecutor didn't see a reasonable likelihood of conviction but I really don't understand how she came to that conclusion.

[@nomadpurple6154]

@@coreylaberge6005 The decision not to bring charges may be because the law in relation to negligent/involuntary manslaughter is very weak with a light penalty in that jurisdiction. And the cost may be prohibitive with time better spent prosecuting deliberate violent crimes. It depends also on the politics in the area and how they relate to the re-election of the Attorney General. See the Rust/Alec Baldwin/Hannah Reed case for how messy & expensive something like this can get.

[@teijaflink2226]

@FamiliarAnomaly No need to bring misogyny into the discussion.

[@valerierodger]

@@nomadpurple6154 a lot of it had to do with the investigation not being done properly, the dive school, hiding evidence and withholding information, and the prosecutor not being given all the facts when the decision whether or not to charge was made

[@harmoniousfrenchman8775]

In the Navy, we even do "diver ok" checks while descending to working depth. Her discomfort would have been caught on descent.

[@ioidt]

i wonder how fast they went from 15ft to 60ft depth and if it was a gradual drop and a straight drop directly to the ledge ... bad location for first dive ...

[@harmoniousfrenchman8775]

@ioidt All sorts of squeezes, ear, face mask, dry suit...

[@SOLDOZER]

Shes a small girl who was loaded down with 40 pounds of lead. She would have had major buoyancy issues even on the surface.

[@harmoniousfrenchman8775]

Exactly, especially if the drysuit squeeze was keeping her from moving her arms to equalize the other squeezes.

[@bornaluckyman1]

I know the emphasis is on the victim and thought how respectful you handled Bob Gentry and the life long burden he now has to carry with him. I was trapped on the Carlton Queen which capsized in Egypt and a fellow passenger at that time gave up his life to save myself and my son. We were able to get him a bcd , tank and regs . From a place of safety we waited for him , he ordered /shouted for us to leave him. He survived using the unit but the guilt, mental pain on leaving him haunts me to this day and he survived. So Poor poor bob .. i cant imagine how you must feel ...i think you are a hero matey

[@Monikamusic02official]

​@@bornaluckyman1 I'm so sorry you all went through that. I'm so happy to hear you are OK. Along with the hero that helped you two. 💛

[@littleboots9800]

Are you David? Was it Fernando, the guy that told you to go? You are indeed a lucky man, (I noticed your username.) Thank God you all got out alive that day.

[@bornaluckyman1]

@@Monikamusic02official he was amazing...

[@bornaluckyman1]

@@littleboots9800 yes, I am David and it was Fernando that told, ordered and shouted me to go, I have never known such a selfless act... He was not meant to be there only arriving at his cabin 1 min before . I am indeed a lucky man .

[@bornaluckyman1]

@@Monikamusic02official thank you so much for your lovely comment, I am so glad that there are good people in this world..... Sadly forLinea and bob, they weren't so lucky.. I would love to know of Bob ever found the courage to ever dive again ..

[@joncrow3228]

I’m familiar with this story, via reading reports, and you guys kept making me say “just wait for it” this entire video. This was criminal negligence at an absolute MINIMUM.

[@m.e.c.1007]

Especially because she didn't follow the standard. I was at a lawsuit against a dentist. The main sticking point of his losing the case was because, he didn't follow the standard of care, period. If there are written standards that should be and are expected to be followed, and she didn't, boom, guilty.

[@matthewfrost3677]

Letting her swim without prechex is negligent. Telling her to go ahead without the correct equipment is reckless at a minimum. Even without the certification to teach dry suit

[@simonsmith8974]

I saw someone come out of the water who had forgotten his drysuit hose and decided to tough it out and attempt a 30 metre or 100 foot dive. When he came out of the water the creases in the drysuit had made welts all over his body (he looked like he was wearing a spiderman suit! He was lucky not to die from thorasic squeeze.

[@The.Doctor.6149]

Well I learned a new term, thank you; I had no idea that thoracic compression was referred to as thoracic squeeze within the context of diving in a drysuit - I imagine there’s some degree of blood flow restriction to the suits as well within the same injury mechanism. Sounds nasty though regardless. 😉👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@erinthevirgo]

This sounds like an absolute worst nightmare situation

[@Potz4pizza]

Forgot it as in he brought the wrong regulator, or forgot to connect the hose to his drysuit? Total mad decision either way.

[@TrappedinSLC]

There's someone on one of the threads about this on Scubaboard who had some kind of hose issue on his drysuit at that kind of depth and he posted a photo of the amount of bruising he had. It's impressive.

[@shipwreckscuba2651]

Why was he lucky not to die? Could have just come up at any point. Drama darlings

[@fabianbuckreus185]

We actually conducted some testing in a controlled environment. I own four different dry suits, including a neoprene one. With that suit, the squeeze isn’t too bad-you barely notice it at 10 meters, it just gets a little tight. However, in my Santi main dry suit, at 10 meters, I couldn’t even reach the inflation valve anymore, and my buddy had to step in because it was impossible to move my arms. I can’t imagine the terrible feeling Linnea must have experienced, especially with no competent person around to help. It’s truly unimaginable.

[@jth_printed_designs]

Legit gave her concrete shoes, tossed her in the water and said "have fun!"

[@HRRRRRDRRRRR]

Would there have been any possibility of cutting the suit to relieve the pressure? Sure it would then add freezing cold water and cold shock to the mix, but I assume the pressure would equalise pretty quick as water floods it.

[@jth_printed_designs]

@@HRRRRRDRRRRR I thought the same thing, but even if it would, you’d be stuck with “ok, where do I stab at the suit and not kill her”

[@cattymajiv]

@@jth_printed_designs The arm or lower leg (but not the hand or foot) would do the least harm, and it seems obvious, but I know that in the moment it's not the same as me sitting here on my cosy couch.

[@memeier9894]

She still had 44 lbs of weights, which would have kept dragging her down, no?

[@dharmagirl5889]

One of the things I most appreciate about you guys is the fact that you are so careful about the factual information. This makes you take longer to give a reaction, but makes the reaction more worthwhile.

[@TheDaggwood]

I was PADI certified when I was 16. Scrawny kid in a wetsuit 2 sizes too big off the frigid Oregon Coast. Fast forward 25 years later went on a dive in Mexico with just one other person. Ran into big trouble and the instructor's teaching and even voice was clear as a bell in my panicked mind as I lost control. He saved my life.

[@Mikey.M.V.P.1]

Imagine Being crushed & suffocating before actually drowning what a horrible way to go 😢

[@glitchyhitchy1811]

then imagine the people who you trusted to protect and look after your life was the ones responsible

[@informitas0117]

She was betrayed by the people she compensated and trusted.

[@nettewilson5926]

@@Mikey.M.V.P.1 damn that’s sounds horrible

[@JBOBROSKII]

What pisses me off about this, is that everyone accept the guy who grabbed her, sat there and watched her die. Even the instructors ignored her when they were down there and didn't take her issue seriously. As she was sinking, the instructor literally looked at her, swam away, and then played dumb and she drowned. Also, no one was charged for her death, and that makes me so mad. Everyone except the two students was accountable to her death 100%. It was 100% their fault, and not a damn thing happened to them. The family tried to press chargers, but the courts decided they did nothing wrong. Those instructors are still teaching people to this day. I wonder how many people have died under their watch.

[@mrmotofy]

It's VERY VERY COMMON in a scenario for people to freeze and not know what to do for a few minutes. Unless you're one of the few 20-30% able to think and act competently under pressure

[@nikkib2309]

@@mrmotofy training and emergency preparedness can overcome the freeze response. It's why there is so much training in diving. An instructor should be the one to respond to an emergency, not freeze.

[@mrmotofy]

@@nikkib2309 That's a nice theory...but it doesn't work that way in real life

[@fitnessfeverpt]

A person who freezes is not capable of working in high risk situations like this. New career required.

[@Dunriteproducts]

@@mrmotofy a few minutes! Really? Hmmm guess I'm one of the few then. A few minutes is a lifetime in a high risk, high stress scenario. But regardless the instructors should be trained and practiced enough so that the proper reaction in a life threatening situation becomes automatic and if they are not at that level they should not be certified as an instructor until they can properly demonstrate how to react quickly in a life or death scenario and certainly should not be allowed to continue teaching after failing to demonstrate such ability. Just like IMO anyone who is training to be a pilot should be able to demonstrate proper and timely reactions to scenarios such as entering a spin, experiencing an unexpected engine failure shortly after takeoff, loss of elevator, or rudder control, etc .. Similary I believe all drivers should be able to demonstrate offensive driving managers for unexpected road obstruction as well as how to recover if a vehicle experiences loss of traction, etc... which sadly isn't required in the USA to obtain a license

[@terranbiped8358]

Gentlemen, this has to be one of the best articulated presentations on a SCUBA diagnosis and reaction I’ve ever watched. Your knowledge, experience, modesty and perspectives, sometimes instructively at odds with each other, belies Gus’s relaxed demeanor and Woody’s quirkiness. You guys continue to impress me. What I initially considered to be just another run of the mill podcast of occasional interest has turned into a dedicated viewership. Bravo!

[@snowbunny1066]

I don’t even know how I got to your channel. I was driving home from work listening to another channel and the next thing I know I’m listening to you two. My worst fear in the world is big bodies of water. I’m elderly and never learned to swim. I grew up with a pool and I couldn’t get near it. I tried and saw the bottom I passed out. So I’m driving home from work and I was panicking listening what happened to that young girl. I can’t even watch tc shows with people in scuba gear. I start to panic bad. All I know is that guy who tried to save her was a true hero. No doubt he feels guilt and probably still has nightmares. I wonder if he still scuba dives? I learned something I never knew of in my 65 years of life. You two taught me a lot. You know what’s weird? All my kids Knew how to swim. They started. As babies. I could never take them my husband did because I was so afraid of the pools. As a mother I had to make sure they could be strong swimmers because I knew I could never save them. Everyone of them was on the swim teams and water polo teams. My proud marine that didn’t make it in Afghanistan was a scuba diver instructor. He loved it. That’s what he did before he joined the Marines. He flew helicopter for life flight and was a scuba instructor. He would have loved you too. This was very interesting, extremely sad but interesting. Thank you. Wish my fear would go but now it’s worse😢

[@mrmotofy]

It's all great and all...but ultimately it's personal responsibility. I will try to know and understand as much as reasonably possible

[@shannoninalaska]

@@snowbunny1066 my sincere condolences. My son is also in the Marines currently. I really believe that your son still lives (he has a heavenly body) and I bet he watches over his momma on earth.

[@mustangnawt1]

I’m sure u know your fear is the biggest fear for sooooo many. When I was growing up, long ago, as a child & as a stupid teen, I drown. Well, thankfully I was saved both times, so I temporarily was drowning. When I think about both times, I remember thinking, well, this is it, ok. I wasn’t afraid in the last moments. I fought as long as as I could, and then calmly let go. No fear remained. Hard to explain. Idk why, as not being able to breathe is terrifying, it was just a comfortable acceptance. I believe prolonged suffering is inhumane. When I die, I pray for it to be over when it’s over. Realize this doesn’t make u less afraid, just know there are way more lengthy painful, scarier ways to Heaven:)

[@Dunriteproducts]

Thank you for sharing and thanks to your son for making the ultimate sacrifice 😢. It saddens me though that you have had to miss out on so many life experiences because of your extreme fear of water. I learned to swim when I was quite young and love the water but I have a strange irrational fear of "things I'm the water" for example a shipwreck, a log or large rock, large fish, even being next to a large ship creeps me out. I have no clue why seeing objects under water creep me out but they do quite badly but I have always made efforts to overcome this fear and haven't let it effect my life. It's never to late to do something about your fear. You could seek counceling and therapy for it as well as begin taking lessons to swim! I quite certain you would feel very good about your decision should you choose to confront your fear. 😊

[@nicohusky]

Sorry for your loss. I too am thalassophobic and cannot enter the ocean or any other large deep body of water but can manage a small swimming pool and yes I can swim. I canot even fly over water. You seem severely thalassophobic though and it is a horrible phobia to have.

[@Knightstruth]

Man, imagine how terrible it must feel as a man to hit the point where you need to leave a young girl to suffocate to death in order to survive. Even if there was absolutely nothing you could do other than die with her, what a terrible feeling.

[@mariaschoenfeld]

This is one of the most disturbing dive accident for me personally as a fellow diver. Only the documentary "Dave not coming back" caught me the same way emotionally as Linnea Mills. RIP, girl.

[@nolagrl35]

I’ve never been scuba diving and I would never have thought that anything needed to be done to a dry suit. I thought you just put it on. That’s why I was blown away by the title of the video. Even though I’ve never been diving and never will I’m still absolutely fascinated with your videos and have been around since you guys first started a few years ago.

[@brolohalflemming7042]

They teach you Boyle's Law the hard way. The squeeze is real, not to mention very uncomfortable, sometimes on man-bits that don't like being squeezed or crushed. It's one of those "Ohh.." things when thinking about diving in wet vs dry suits and how much difference that air pressure can make. Also choice of thermals or undergarments and fit to avoid creases that might end up becoming rather painful.

[@glitchyhitchy1811]

worrying thing is, if you decided you did want to give it a go.. you could find places which would hire the gear to you and like you said you'd have no idea about what is wrong.. Thankful you watching these guys steers you away from those people. Even still if youve got the means to try it, no diver will ever say dont try, its unmatched to anything else and an experience youll never forget :)

[@nolagrl35]

@@glitchyhitchy1811 the reason I say I’ll never do it is because I have panic attacks over not being able to breathe through my nose when it’s stuffy. And I’m claustrophobic so I know I’d have a panic attack under water. But I still love watching everyone else do it.

[@callie_5117]

I agree! I had no idea a dry suit needed air put in and let our depending on depth. I could see how someone would trust the instructor! I would have!

[@ma-jp8bf]

FWIW- there are dry suits designed for military pilots flying over cold water as PPE in case of a crash. No air hose attachments, just intended for survival. Hopefully no newbie diver buys one from a military surplus store to try to use for diving

[@sammoyers905]

Two points: 1: Snow is ABSOLUTELY grossly negligent and therefore should easily be found guilty of negligent homicide in a civil court. 2: PADI has a reputation for punching out Instructors at a massive rate. The IDC in the Keys who certified Snow, takes pride in the numbers of “Instructors” their Course puts out. A person with even a hundred dives has absolutely no business being an instructor. PERIOD. PADI and these zero-to-hero “Instructor” factories are the biggest hazard in the dive industry currently. The second are dive shops like Gull Diving, whose only interest is their profit margin. PADI needs to revise the standards to a MINIMUM of 250 dives for Divemaster, and at least two years serving as a Divemaster prior to entering into an Instructor program.

[@Hippocrab]

I agree mostly with what youre saying except that 100 dive mark. It all depends on the person. I did 100 dives quick but every dive i treated with the upmost respect and due diligence. I asked questions of more experienced divers, and made sure that when I wasnt diving that I was taking classes and studying. I made stress and rescue a mandatory course even when not going the instructor route. The quality of peoples charachter and integrity has gone down, thats the biggest issue.

[@SonnyKnutson]

@@Hippocrab You can't make that distinction. Because to make rules you have to go on non-subjective information. How a person spent their time diving or between dives is not something you can prove or show and if you could would be an exception to the rule.

[@Corn_Pops_Rusty_Razor]

3: she dove with equipment she wasn't familiar with or trained on, bypassing a dive shop that wouldn't rent the equipment to her BC she wasn't certified, AND refused to cancel the dive multiple times bc she drove 3 hours to the dive site

[@fiddytwo]

​@@Hippocrab How can you say people's character and integrity have gone down? Based on what data? This is a generalization that does not benefit anybody.

[@MrHerrS]

@@Corn_Pops_Rusty_Razor To be honest, the owners also should hold liable in some parts. Imho, a certified dive shop must have rules and some kind of monitoring in place to supervise their dive instructors and it seems like they never some kind of supervising in place. ESPECIALLY if the instructor had passed the examen only a few days / weeks ago. Every company I've worked for, the trainers were being supervised and had one to one meetings with a supervisor analysing their performance as an instructor. And these instructors were not even responsable for the life of their trainees, like a dive instructor actually is. So I bet the owners didn't care about safety and responsability as it involves more work and therefor costs money. And apparently they already showed the negligence regarding safety with the other incident where someone died. It's a shame this young person had to die while her death was easily preventable.

[@yoodeet6338]

I had a scuba dive course at Auckland University, New Zealand in 2005. My PADI diving instructor was so bad, I nearly drowned in a pool. I lost my regulator and could not find it. My weight belt was so heavy, I could not come to the surface. I crawled on the floor until I reached the steps of the pool and climbed up. When I reached the surface, I looked around. Nobody had noticed me, I could have just died without anyone noticing. The were at least two instructors but they were occupied with other dive students.

[@thesanfranciscoseahorse473]

Why were you in the water alone?? Every instructor course I've ever taken in a pool, the instructor is right there next to you the whole time.

[@ioidt]

did the instructor ask you to jump into the deep end all by yourself?

[@sandpiperr]

@@thesanfranciscoseahorse473 They probably weren't alone. They were with other students and the instructors in the same pool. It's just that no one noticed what was going on,

[@sheriv7677]

That's terrifying! Thank God you kept your wits about you and saved your life.

[@yoodeet6338]

@@thesanfranciscoseahorse473 We were forming a queue at the pool and one diving student after the other had to jump into the pool. So one diving instructor was standing outside of the pool helping the students in and the other instructor was in the pool helping them in the pool. But they only watched every student a few seconds and then shifted their attention to next student getting into the pool. When I lost my regulator they have already moved on to the next diving student getting into the water.

[@TheLumberJacked]

What’s worse. The air has been squeezed out of her. She has been crushed so the voids like her lungs aren’t there anymore, so not only does she have way too much weight but the normally buoyancy you would expect to be there due to inflated lungs, is also missing. Dead weight doesn’t even begin to explain how heavy she would have been.

[@AngryPug76]

56:51 I’ve been on several juries including a medical malpractice trial and a vehicular homicide trial. From what you presented, including the intentional hiding of evidence after the fact, this is absolutely criminal negligent homicide.

[@Cybigun]

As a 6'1, 210lb dude who works out a fair bit, my total weight in salt water is single digit lbs. If I got into a dry suit, in salt water, i'd expect that to go up to around 20lbs. In fresh water, I'd take a few lbs off. The fact that she was given 44lbs of weight nearly makes it murder. I don't know of a single case where you'd need that much weight. Did she select her own weight? Did someone give them to her? Did no one question her when she kept adding weight? No one saw? If there was just the squeeze, she could've made it out, albeit with possible serious injuries. The 44lbs of weight insured that as soon as she stepped off the shore, she was already dead. You'd need 2 or 3 people with fully inflated BCDs to compensate for that. I've had some incompetent dive guides and dive masters in my life, but not to the extent of letting someone take 44lbs of weight.

[@diapysik]

I'm not a diver but the video mentioned a pre dive air purge, do you think the instructors didn't even know about that and weighted her for a suit full of air? The only time I've seen weight like that is the kid who nearly drowned himself in a creek looking for gold.

[@Yggdrasil42]

⁠maybe but I assume they were using Drysuits themselves and you don't accidentally add 44 pounds. You'd have to jeep adding blocks of lead one after the other. At some point anybody should start wondering how much she had in total.

[@Potz4pizza]

Was she overweighted? Probably, especially considering it was in fresh water. But it depends on the type of suit, and the rest of your gear. With a crushed neoprene suit, aluminum tank, and a thermal jumper + jacket, I needed 36-40 lb in salt water (as a 175 lb dude).

[@TrappedinSLC]

I believe I read somewhere or another that either Snow or her assistant (who was not qualified to be doing what he was doing) were helping her with weights and put them in the pockets of her dry suit.

[@DavidMaruca_]

You might need more than 20. I’m a tech and cave diver 5’3, 120lbs. My drysuit uses 19lbs lead plus another 3-4lbs of lights and reels. I also typically use dual aluminum tanks. So that weight also keeps me down when each of my aluminums turn into metal balloons and try to buoy me up.

[@roba6557]

It is funny, my open water instructor was a PADI instructor and she was a cave diver and very thorough and rigorous. My navigation specialty instructor was SSI and I had to help him connect his drysuit hose at 20ft depth because he forgot it. So, yeah all about the instructor, not tho organization .

[@putrid.p]

It's on the organisation if they're accrediting instructors who aren't capable, otherwise their accreditation is devalued.

[@carlmeade1667]

Are you sure they had forgotten it? I once had my drysuit hose come out mid dive, I coldn't locate the hose immediately so signalled to stop and pointed out the problem to the DM and he helped me out. Though yes even it it does come out an instructor should normally be able to fixe such things themselves. I didn't notice it come out so the way I found out was when I went to inflate my suit and 3 degree (C) water came in instead. Fortunately that is a hole in your drysuit that is easy to repair underwater and with a decent undersuit within a few seconds the water was warmed up and I was able to complete the dive without feeling cold.

[@roba6557]

@@carlmeade1667 that is a good point, I am not sure. I am sure however that we did not do a pre-dive check. So, if he did forget, we could have caught it there. I assumed he forgot because that hose should have a locking mechanism like the BCD inflator hose where it snaps into place. So at the very least it wasn’t connected properly. When it happened to you was the locking mechanism worn out or something?

[@carlmeade1667]

@@roba6557 Probably just wasn't connected properly. It was a rental reg (but my own drysuit) and the hose was probably an inch or so shorter than mine so a bit tight. We did a buddy check where I checked air would go into the suit but I didn't give it a tug to make sure it is fully locked (like I do now). After reconnecting (the DM routed it a bit differently so it wasn't as tight) we had no issues with it for the rest of the dive.

[@FamiliarAnomaly]

moronic comment

[@chrismiksworld]

I know NOTHING about diving. From watching this I can see there are so many details that you NEED to know, and each and every one of these details even the smallest ones are Life and Death Details. I can see how TRUST is a huge part of diving, especially for someone less experienced.

[@ryder389]

I have never gone diving in my life. I know nothing about diving. I’m not sure how I even got to this video. But I can immediately see how negligent these “instructors” were. Absolutely unbelievable.

[@thandiwolfe813]

My open water diver training was run by a PADI instructor, and despite loving the experience, I felt belittled and like the instructor was waiting for me to make a mistake so that they could point it out. I haven’t been diving since I passed the course because even though I could go through the steps and successfully complete a dive, I didn’t feel confident doing it. These videos are helping me rekindle my interest in diving.

[@troop1026]

It might help to go to another shop or agency and go through the whole process again so you can see a good safe instructor and your comfort level will return. Safe Diving in your future.

[@Yggdrasil42]

Definitely recommend doing a refresher with another instructor. Most instructors are great at their job and diving can be very enjoyable. I think you'll find it a breath of fresh air and you'll get the confidence you lost.

[@tigerman1978]

Sounds like an instructor doing a crappy job. You should feel like you want to get in the water and practice and experience after OW, not like youre nor ready :(

[@valerierodger]

Even people who know the material very well are not necessarily good as instructors. It’s a separate skill set. I definitely encourage you to find an instructor that will help you build confidence as well as skill.

[@tigerman1978]

@@valerierodger I have a few hundred hours under water, so I think Im good thanks

[@gotahgemini6415]

This just brought tears to my eyes, poor girl. May she RIP. The galls on the instructor to blame the student, I can't even fathom it.

[@ioidt]

some are not meant to be dive instructor. As a novice diver with very little dives in my log taking advance class, i once got so seasick on the surface in a rough weather day and i couldnot dive down and had to return to the boat, one of my instructors for that class was so mad at me for that, and i can still recall her facial expression!

[@RCJones560]

I'm not a diver, but I watch you guys because I have so much respect for how you treat other people. Like Woody said, "What went right?" And knowing that you two could armchair for hours about what could've been done differently. I felt the weight when you said that they basically killed her, because you don't use those words lightly. This was a terrible accident, and you two are some of the best and most respectful when it comes to handling diving tragedies. Please keep doing what you're doing and keep your integrity like you've been instead of chasing clicks like other people on KZbin. Thank you for everything you do ❤

[@femalearmyveteran6906]

Idk why people say "Don't talk or pause it guys!..." I've been watching since almost the beginning & both your guy's input & talking adds to the whole thing for me, and is the reason I watch!!!! ❤❤😊keep it up guys!!! Great vid as always!!! 🎉

[@matthewfrost3677]

I'm sorry you're wrong! It could be edit down to 5 minutes of commentary, especially after you remove the half hour of misinformation about it squeezing the air out of your lungs.

[@tajos703]

I’m grateful that as you work through this tragic case you outline various details we, as potentially uninformed public, should be aware of so as not to make the same mistakes of faith. Such a sad story of negligence taking this bright human light.

[@justchillin131]

I'm not even a diver and im holding my head in my hands, what an absolute train wreck. Glad to see you two react to this, you will show more awareness and hopefully save somebody's life.

[@da-jc9jz]

it was a train wreck though

[@cbrasure925]

I have always respected the way you treat these tragedies and explain what went wrong with personal experience and through facts. Even when there is a lack of facts you don't dwell on speculation or sensationalism. Instead you troubleshoot and walk us through the variables or factors that may have lead to the victim or victims tragic and untimely demise. Thank you, Gus and Woody for the insight.

[@greymalkin9228]

I just want to thank you for being calm, rational people who hold off until the facts are in rather than going off half-cocked charging in with hot takes. It's very refreshing.

[@hughgray4199]

As a former military and Commercial Deep Sea Diver.... got to say this event was a total cluster fu-k. An innocent was killed thru lack of knowledge and total lack of supervision reviews (safety checks). The final insult is the attempts by those responsible to dodge that responsibility. I'm sad for that little lady and her family.

[@snap4433221]

If you dive, you understand that this goes way beyond the line of negligence, this was pure murder. I followed the inital uproar regarding this "accident", but didn't want to finalize my opinion. This is insane. 20kg of unremovable weights.... no checking certs of your students?! No pre dive checks on training dives?! Blaming your student?! Are you completly INSANE?!!!!!! Every excuse of a human in this operation should be jailed for life.

[@showerychunk5]

One thing I really respect about these guys is their friendship despite not always agreeing with each other.

[@TitaniumTurbine]

If a friendship doesn’t include friendly disagreements then it’s a very face value/shallow friendship.

[@YukonSeanHolland]

36 feet Woody. After that, the squeeze is too much. It also gets more difficult to move your limbs after that as well. I learned that as a new dry suit diver after I had forgotten to connect my dry suit inflator hose. I'm glad it was only 36 feet deep and my buddy could see me asking for help.

[@larsvonrinpoche1229]

@@YukonSeanHolland as someone who knows nothing about diving, let me say that a "36 foot Woody" is clearly just bragging 😉

[@TJGermany]

The squeeze just limits your mobility. It doesn't crush you. Your body is still only exposed to the same ambient hydrostatic pressure as with a wetsuit.

[@2pigeons684]

@TJGermany would it limit your ability to expand your chest? If this is not the case, if she had just allowed herself to drop to the bottom and keep breathing down there would she have been ok?

[@TJGermany]

@@2pigeons684 no, it wouldn't limit your ability to expand your chest. I am surprised Woody and Gus got this so wrong. Dropping down to the bottom is no option. At 100 ft and below your air consumption becomes quite big and will last less than an hour. Additionally, your no-decompression-time becomes even shorter and is less than 10 minutes at 120 ft, so you would get decompression sickness if ascending without prolonged stops.

[@2pigeons684]

@@TJGermany it's not a case of thoracic squeeze?

[@Jimmy_CV]

To try to blame Bob the only person who even tried to save her, wow what a pos.

[@andrewhirons398]

I know nothing about diving, but based on the facts reported in your video the death was due to criminal negligence and I really hope this instructor faces this charge in a court of law. To be crushed slowly to death without hope of being rescued must have been one of the worst ways to lose one’s life and so young with much life ahead of her.

[@rmeredithm]

Not only was Linnea in danger, but literally *everyone* was in danger. The head “instructor” of this dive was completely negligent on all fronts. No checks. Diving at dusk without torches. Not making sure anyone with a dry suit is properly trained/certified. No surface support. I won’t hope she goes out the same way Linnea did, but I hope she has a scare so she can experience what she did in her last moments. Maybe then she can appreciate what her negligence caused - even if she’s not willing to publicly admit fault. Jeannine can also get wrecked for tampering with evidence.

[@seanstevenson8038]

Five pre-dive checks for drysuit divers: 1) Make sure exhaust valve will rotate properly to change the spring tension 2) Make sure exhaust valve will properly depress and actuate 3) Make sure inflator quick disconnect is fully engaged and locked on the inflator fitting (give the hose a soft tug) 4) Make sure inflator is delivering gas when actuated 5) Make sure the waterproof zipper is pulled all the way to the end stop. Adds only seconds to your pre-dive checks, and potentially averts catastrophe.

[@tigerman1978]

That 5th one you'll notice REAL quick if you failed ;)

[@ronjones-6977]

But it adds TONS of time if you don't bother doing any checks at all.

[@FireMageLayn]

You were asking how they would know these instructors are being irresponsible, and it's simple. Employ pen testers. Get a few people to turn up at random dive shops, pretend to be novices, and see whether the dive shop instructors agree to teach things they aren't certified to teach, or to teach students who don't have the qualifications to do what they're trying to do.

[@lindsaynesham4269]

The armorer who was charged in the Rust movie shooting death by Alec Baldwin was convicted of negligent homicide because she didn’t thoroughly check the gun for live ammo. So, if we went with that precedent, absolutely it’s criminal negligence. I’m not a lawyer. I watch a lot of LawTube though and I can’t see that instructor being acquitted. How they haven’t charged her yet is surprising to say the least.

[@ronjones-6977]

Someone should take a look at the DA's campaign contribution list.

[@b.vo.]

I had never really thought about how dry suits work. How all this went wrong is crazy

[@bbs5400]

When you were talking about how the cold doesn’t affect you, it made me want to congratulate you on all of the progress you’ve made. You look absolutely phenomenal, great job getting in shape. So happy for you. Just here to acknowledge all of hard work you’ve been putting in

[@platypusdiaries5308]

I'd never heard of a dry suit before, and didn't really know how a wet suit worked either. I learn something every time I watch y'all. This poor woman was set up for failure. The other diver did what they could, it wasn't their fault. This was a disaster in the making right from the start.

[@tigerman1978]

If you've seen people doing the plastic bag and vacum cleaner trick/challenge/prank, thats just about how a drysuit without inflation works..

[@TJGermany]

@@tigerman1978 not really. It would be comparable to putting a water-filled bottle into a bad and than vaccuuming this.

[@ryanbeck8004]

Drysuit class is imperative. I could have never known how to use one just hopping in the water. I ended up buying a Hollis Drysuit and it’s the best thing ever once you understand how to use it

[@brolohalflemming7042]

I think there can be a bit of a catch-22. I trained in the UK, so once out of the pool, the water is usually cold. So I guess UK divers tend to drift towards drysuits ASAP. So my instructor advised buying a drysuit, because I obviously needed that for the class, and also allowing time to make sure it fitted etc. This was before online shopping, so buying one was either in person or via mail order from one of the dive magazines. I prefer in person, so went to the shop. Staff are usually divers and we had a conversation about the importance of training and I bought one. I think online shopping makes it a bit more dangerous because anyone can now just 1-click purchase something that will happily kill them, if they're not trained in how to use the gear safely.

[@TrappedinSLC]

In some areas it's not uncommon at all for OW drivers to essentially *start* in a dry suit after their pool classes, because the conditions require it. But that's *part of the class structure* that there is additional information that needs to taught for them to be able to dive safely. So they don't have an official dry suit class, but they are still getting dry suit education as part of their OW classes.

[@Frustratedfool]

In the early 90’s I went to meet my girlfriend’s family in Denmark. Her brother, Jesper Illum, was an accomplished instructor and asked if I’d like to get my PADI certification. It was a great but hard course (especially the written test in day 3 after reading a big book!) but after the main training in a swimming pool, I did my test in a dry suit in the sea just off the coast of Denmark. I was amazed at how different a dry suit was to initially work in. Getting air out the legs was tricky. But what a special skill to learn. I loved every second of my 5 days intensive training. Jesper is an excellent instructor.

[@lindsayder]

I've never had trouble using a drysuit, but I know some people do find it difficult to deal with the buoyancy issues. It's probably something that should be learned first in the pool (being a controlled environment) and then in open water. I am not dry suit certified, but I have used dry suit in conjunction with my advanced and rescue diver certifications. That is very common. I think what is missing from this conversation is the prohibitive cost of diving education being a massive barrier, just as the cost is a barrier to having the ideal equipment. I will say that from my own experience, a lot of instructors are not aware of what is happening with every pair of divers during the dive. I had an emerency drill go wrong and ended up having to breathe off the bubbles from my buddy's octopus on freeflow. We dealt with it on our own, but when we surfaced, neither the instructor nor the supervisor of the instructor had any clue that anything had happened and, in fact, I think we got chastised for my buddy's tank being severely depleted.

[@Tobez]

I couldn't resist becoming a member after seeing this member first video in my sidebar for the past 4 days. Gladly support you two Gents, great content as always.

[@tocsa120ls]

I like the dynamic: Paul starts the setup, you two chime in and when you resume the video, Paul explains it exactly the same as you two did :)

[@seliahwinter7808]

Damn I could listen to you guys for 8 Hours straight and not get bored and im not even a diver nor do i know anything about it, you make everything so clear to understand.

[@kevinjohanson5718]

I respect the way you guys go about issues like this. Not jumping the gun on speculation and allowing authorities to do the investigation and base your thoughts on educated information.

[@camilamarturet1604]

I will never dive. I'm not even slightly interested in diving. But this channel is super fun and interesting to listen to.

[@vikinghorsechick]

I love how when Woody is thinking hard, he totally freezes his face... and I think for a second my screen froze 😂 I call it - Woody is buffering...

[@glitch1126]

You guys are brilliant. I've got really bad thalassophobia , never in my life have I felt comfortable in water. But I love your channel, super informative and relaxing and interesting to watch. I'll never dive in my life for multiple reasons, it's just not for me, but I've learned so much through you two about a hobby I'll never personally experience. You're both great, thank you for the content.

[@Batdog98]

this is honestly the best podcast i’ve ever seen !❤ great job guys on everything just got a new sub and told everyone i know about this channel

[@Spacemonkeymojo]

The video you guys used misses out on a lot of details that were outlined in the court documents. Things like how - when she went to buy the suit from someone - they didn't tell her the suit was basically defective because it didn't come with a hose, how Debra was horribly unorganised when it came to communicating with the divers before the dive, how she didn't have a permit to go diving in the national park, that they were very late to leave for the dive for some reason (although this video says they started the dive at 17:00), how during the first dive dive (I guess just to acclimatise to the lake) that she dragged E.G. into the water and placed rocks in her pockets to make her negatively buoyant, that she didn't have a buddy, how the instructor Debra Snow dragged E.G. into the water to help bring Linnea's body to shore, how Linnea's weights were zippered into her pockets so couldn't be ditched easily and how Debra tried to cover it up with the assistance of the Gull Dive owners. There were a lot of mistakes along the way that compounded to her death, it's just so tragic. It's like they were purposely trying to murder her through neglect. I feel so sorry for Bob having to live with this.

[@TheBenzKid]

Diving in cold water, at alititude, first time dry suit with no training, no safety checks before diving, and it being a NIGHT DIVE with only the two insturctors having torches? That is complete insanity and they should have their licenses revoked for life. That was one of the most irresponsible things I've heard in diving, especially with TWO instructors.

[@nettewilson5926]

They should also spend some serious time in prison

[@Jeff13R]

Definition of too cool for school syndrome

[@mrmotofy]

It's still a complicated gray area since they can't really stop anyone legally from doing anything. Except getting on their boat etc.

[@Not.Your.Business]

I remember my blood beginning to boil when I first heard of this incident, shortly after it happened, and I'm not even a diver. the level of negligence and evidence tampering pushed me to imagine doing unthinkable things to these "instructors"...

[@onestar76]

During a TMX dive I connected my Drysuit to a stage with a non-TMX gas (I didn't have a suit inflationbottle back then). As I normally do I pressurize my stages and close them until I need them. While descending the first press on my drysuit inflator was fine, the second stopped midway and I was like o-****, we were still descending. At around 9m it was already quite uncomfortable and resulting in 2 bruises on my shoulders (I now use the images in my teaching). It took me a while to realize that I closed my stage, re-opening it solved it. But the fact that it was already painful at 9m I can hardly imagine what the effect would be if you go as deep as she ended up being... I can only imagine is that you are crushed unable to move and breathe...

[@jenelaina5665]

Respect for owning and teaching your mistake to others, though.

[@tigerman1978]

Inflating the drysuit is somewhat of a second nature and I dont check the depth gage before I do so, but I can safely bet a LOT of money on me inflating that drysuit a long time before 9 meters. I have gotten bruised by my drysuit before, even when its only "slightly uncomfortable" I would imagine those bruises from 9 meters being pretty visible..

[@onestar76]

@@tigerman1978 I did inflate as well, which worked because the system was pressurized. So yes it is second nature but if there is no gas available, die tot the valve being closed, nothing will happen.

[@willflyforbeer]

I’ve been binge watching this channel. I’m an aviation safety expert and have investigated multiple plane crashes and the human factors that were involved. I’ve learned to have an unbiased perspective and not make assumptions going in. A lot of the human factor lapses are similar to these dive accidents and I quite appreciate the wholistic approach you guys give when creating these videos.

[@innovati]

First time seeing your channel and I'm not even a diver, but I am a fan of high quality youtube content so the algorithm must have known ;) I like how you both manage to be respectful while being candid and truthful and also still holding each other and others accountable. I love your attitude and approach and honesty here.

[@ShannonGibsonArtDesigns]

As a non diver, but lover of your commentary and personalities, by far, your ability to articulate and teach is incredible! I feel this channel is extremely valuable and certainly entertaining. I've watched every video at least twice, LOL, and I'm glad I discovered your content. 😊

[@swearingpriest98]

Looked it up. The AG is not pushing for criminal charges. Insanity.

[@ronjones-6977]

And he's not even one of those Soros-backed morons. He needs to hear from some divers.

[@zed4225]

I like 'WaterlineStories' channel, think i've seen them all and he does a great job of going over any incident at sea. G'day Gus n Woody and all here x

[@kegyen]

Don’t ever apologize for pausing it and talking. It’s your channel!! If people don’t like it, then they don’t have to watch it 😅

[@jujutrini8412]

Those people were the worst instructors ever. Not only the worst instructors but the person who tried to blame the student is an even worse human being. The student tried so hard to save her. I feel so sorry for him. Those “instructors” were criminally negligent.

[@divemasterdavid595]

I'm a drysuit diver and drysuit instructor. This may be a nitpicky point, but I would say that restricted movements at your joints will absolutely make moving your arms and legs impossible or nearly so. As well any folds in the material will cause uncomfortable pressure points that are definitely painful. However, I don't think suit squeeze will "crush" you to the point of inability to breathe. I can see it being tight and difficult to breathe, but not stopping the ability to breathe all together.

[@mrmotofy]

As well as blood restriction would make movement difficult

[@OCDCOMMENTS]

At 90 feet you experience around 50 pounds per square inch, that’s 22kg on every square inch. That would be pretty painful and you would definitely not be able to breathe.

[@TJGermany]

@@OCDCOMMENTS it's the same 50 pounds per square inch that you experience when diving with a wet suit! It's really only limiting your mobility of your limbs and of course the pressure points from the folds in the material.

[@TechTranslate-wb8yq]

Very good analysis and statements! 👍 I’ve never dived with a drysuit, but even as an Advanced Open Water Diver, I know enough about drysuits to understand that I’m not qualified to dive with one and should never attempt it without proper training/certification. The negligence of the instructor/dive base is outrageous! My condolences to her family and friends, especially to her buddy who tried to save her.

[@Fox_on_a_Rollercoaster]

I'm just gonna keep all of this in mind when I'm doing my certifications. I have no opinion about the agency's, but man this was tough to watch. I could have been in the same situation. I would have trusted the instructors as well. I mean, they are instructors after all. I would have trusted them since I don't have any knowledge.

[@tigerman1978]

"Trust me dives" are what we call those. They are accidents waiting to happen. Remember that YOU can abort your dive at any time, for any reason or even just because youre "not feeling it". I have done so, I have dived with others who have done so. Most people are curious as to why you decide to abort, but I have never heard anyone not accept whatever reason given, even if it was just "didnt feel good with it".

[@cattymajiv]

I trust absolutely NOBODY and when I don't feel good about something I am outta there, right f*cking now!

[@Rambothekid2323]

I love the channel you guys have because I can tell y'all genuinely care about teaching safety when it comes to cave diving or just diving. And I can tell you all love diving yourself's. Keep up the great work guys 🙏💯

[@threeftr3349]

You always have a choice to dive, if you are uncomfortable, uneasy, or scared of any conditions in front of you, you can always call off your dive. Live to dive another day. Two issues for me, is unless you have your own dive buddy that you trust with your life, you will be diving with a stranger, and have no idea what they will do underwater. One dive there was a diver who was paired with someone, who simply took off during the dive. And 2, having your own dive gear helps you feel more comfortable underwater because you know how to use it, and where everything is located through muscle memory without looking for it. This gives you confidence to trust the equipment and yourself. I have had a fin fall off underwater, the mask was impossible to clear. Told we are not diving with sharks. I saw the biggest wide girth shark, I believe it was a bull shark that I ever seen underwater. It was literally beneath me, when I had rented equipment that was way to big and falling off. I should have known when they picked people up from the cruise ship with a broken down van, with no reverse, that had a box of parts on the floor. Years ago I had a dive instructor doing my deep water check out dive, on a live a board, take me over a wall with a down draft. Other divers turned around in front of us, and moved away from the wall. Needless to say once she realized this, we were way down the wall. We started to swim back up, against the current, but she left me behind her, and every time she turned around to see if I was still there, the look on her face told me I was in trouble. Thanks goodness I did not panic, and swam has hard as I could, and never looked at my 02 level. I am sure I got to the surface, with my tank practically empty. I have her signature on my dive card to remind me that I am responsible for myself. Never trust anyone completely for your safety or your life, especially when diving outside the U.S. Slow down, and be more observant of your surroundings, don't stop thinking, and don't blindly follow a stranger you don't know. Ask questions about their safety protocols. Is the boat in good working order? Do they have a radio?, How far are you going out into the ocean? Does the crowded boat have to many people? How do they account for everyone on the boat after a dive? Drift, and strong current diving is a whole different animal. I have seen many people panic in these situations.

[@wormhole331]

In 2011 I bought a house that had a pool. It was beginning of summer in the desert and the outside air temp went from relatively cool to suddenly skyrocketing to like 110 F (43 C) degrees. Air was hot but ground still cool so I thought it was a good time to try it out. I looked at the floating thermometer in the pool and it said 67 F (21 C) degrees and thought that sounded nice and warm, perfect since I was struggling in the heat. I had no frame of reference of what 67 degree water actually meant. I was so hot that I decided to just jump right in off the diving board. I thought I was about to have a F'ing heart attack as soon I hit the water, and shocked me enough that I almost involuntary inhaled water. I learned quickly that water temp works a bit differently.

[@rebeccajohnson8769]

We used to jump in the Merced River (in safe areas), in water that was snow 15 minutes before. It was heartstoppingly cold even in July.

[@christopherclark4038]

Was it too cold or too hot I'm confused

[@kalbic]

We cliff dive here in Oregon in water from snow pack run off at it's easily 50 degrees. You get out quick but it's a thrill for sure.

[@rezhaadriantanuharja3389]

@@christopherclark4038 too cold. Feeling cold / hot is not really a matter of temperature, it is a matter of how quickly heat is removed from / added from your body. This is why a blowing wind makes us feel cooler, because moving air transfer heat better than still air. Make a part of your hand slightly wet and blow air to it, you’ll feel cold because the blowing air accelerates water evaporation and this evaporation process absorbs a lot of heat from your hand. Water has significantly higher heat transfer coefficient than air. Thus, water feels cooler than air, even if their temperatures are equal. In a flood, the water is moving and therefore, transfer heat even more rapidly.

[@msperez1234]

@@christopherclark4038 cold..🥶

[@davidsanderson7948]

PADI’s negligence is in allowing instructors of specialities to not have any certification or training on TEACHING said specialties. PADI’s instructor training practically ends once you’re a PADI instructor.

[@Savage_Thinker]

she sounds like a sociopath murderer

[@paulmince2421]

I would like to comment on your added comment. I’m a dive instructor. PADI doesn’t allow instructors to teach things that there not certified by PADI to teach. I want to make that clear there are things I can’t teach. One Debra snow as guilty as she is for the death of this lady. Would have never been able to process the application to PADI. She does not have the certification to process it. So she would have had to get the other instructor to process it. Yes there is continuing education after becoming an instructor. I learn every day. I’m one of those instructors that will not do dive courses back to back say open water this weekend and advance the next you need dives in between courses. She was teaching a specialty out side her training certification and just not PADI any other dive agency out there would have never known this is happening. Hope your a diver or this message lets you know that there are good instructors out there in all agencies and you become a diver.

[@valerierodger]

@@paulmince2421 is it still the case that PADI instructors can self-certify as a dry suit specialty instructor if they inform PADI that they have done 10 dives themselves in dry suits? (That was one of the issues brought up in the civil suit)

[@paulmince2421]

@@valerierodgeryou are correct about that. However I as an instructor will never self certify on one of the major important class one being dry suit. Thank you for the conversation. Hope your a diver or become a diver. Please pick a good instructor when you desire to learn to dive. It’s not about the agency and all about the instructor

[@paulmince2421]

@@valerierodgeralso I haven’t read all that pertains to the case however I think Debra snow did not hold a dry suit cert I could be wrong. I think that day she was not even self certified she did not have the certification. Let me know if I’m wrong. I don’t want to say something out of context

[@jth_printed_designs]

The reason PADI has to pay out in a case like this is that PADI is the one saying to the public “This person is qualified and certified by us, you are safe learning from them” Then something like this happens and people say “You(PADI) told me that it was safe to dive with this person and they did all of these unsafe things” This is why certification bodies have recurring training and evaluation, so they can 1. Ensure the trainers are actually up to standard, and 2. Cover their own rear end so they don’t have instructors doing unsafe stuff that will lead to lawsuits.

[@DiveMonster]

One big issue with PADI, SDI and probably others is, that by now instructors can self-certify in specialties, just by saying they did a certain amount of dives. Even in 2002, when I did my IDC, I got 9 specialties in a 3 days added program after the IE. I remember, I had to tie 3 knots, and that was it for the search and recovery specialty instructor rating. cant remember what I had to do for wreck specialty.. we had no wrecks there...

[@valerierodger]

@@DiveMonster that was one of the issues in the lawsuit - the ability to self certify as a dry suit specialty instructor just by saying that you had done 10 dives yourself in dry suits

[@DiveMonster]

@@valerierodger I find that crazy, if there is any "special" equipment involved. It might be fine for fish-ID and a few others, Generally speaking are most instructor courses (not only PADI) about how to sell courses and equipment, not about actually instructing and teaching, even that is pretended in the exam.

[@toriedwards126]

This was so sad and actually made me angry. No excuse for not making someone practice in pools with drysuits before actual dives and get drysuit training. Skipping buddy checks?? unheard of no matter how long you have been diving. The negligence of it all. Buddy checks show exactly where your buddies weights are and how to release them in an emergency, I am so angry that this happened to her, it's not her fault, she didn't know any better. Her peers let her down. No hose on suit!! Outrageous and an unnecessary death. Heartbreaking.

[@waterlinestories]

Hey Woody and Gus. Great video as always. So good to get your insight on such a tragic event.

[@DIVETALK]

Thank you for sharing the story and adding your expertise!

[@overthehillmx5667]

Carmen sense respect and knowledge you guys are the definition thank you for all the knowledge of diving or taking us to the places that some of us can’t go

[@cattymajiv]

Carmen sense?!

[@overthehillmx5667]

@@cattymajiv I’m sorry sometimes I make mistakes I talk to text I will make sure I’m perfect lmao get out of here . I have forgot more than you know. Good luck loser Even when somebody’s being positive trolls find negative. Let’s hear it come on What’s your response doggy be a good boy.

[@Henoik]

As a Norwegian diver it's always been weird to me to hear a dry suit is considered special equipment, because it's all I've known. In Norway we dive with dry suits year-round, and while you can dive with wetsuits during the summer, it'll become very cold with some depth. I've never heard about diving with active warming elements as a recreational diver though, but we might just be suited to cold temperatures in general. It's just very important to use layering and to use insulating clothes like wool, which traps a lot of air in the garments (as air is a very good insulator). The good thing with wool is that even though it gets wet, it won't make you cold, so you won't freeze to death if your suit were to leak. I've experienced many times coming up from water and hearing water slooshing around in my feet. Yes, there are things to think about using dry suits, but the biggest threat in my mind is actually heat stroke. On warmer days you want to get into the water as quick as possible, because that air in your suit is trapped in there, so once you start exerting yourself, you'll get really warm. And totally, all divers I know leave that valve open throughout the whole dive, albeit at different settings depending on where you are

[@TrappedinSLC]

There's areas in the US where they're basically standard equipment, too. But the thing is, in those areas you're usually taught about drysuits as part of your normal OW course even though it's not in the OW standards. So it isn't like people are just handed a drysuit and tossed in the water.

[@Henoik]

@@TrappedinSLC Well, that goes for all diving. I can't imagine anyone be given a BCD, tossed in the water, and left to their own fruition 😂 "Good luck, those of you who survive will be given a CMAS*

[@Sir.T]

The instructor is most certainly guilty of negligence. It's very much evident.. justice should be served properly.

[@yoshyusmc]

Poor Linnea! I am not a diver (unless you count my high school Cancun trip lol) but admire the sport from the outside. I really treasure your commentary throughout and it was very illuminating. In the Marine Corps we safety briefed EVERYTHING. We never lost a single Marine in our company to training. As you guys said in the video, she was doomed from the start.

[@AudraK]

There should be no reason that the instructor got off Scott free on this. This is absolutely mind blowing how f*cked this whole situation is. I’m not even a diver but i can clearly see how that poor woman died for no reason other than pure negligence and incompetence in the hands of the instructor. And it wasn’t even the first time this company had a death under their belt!! I hope to god that woman gets locked up for a very VERY long time. Like Woody said, what went right?! This is an absolutely fuvked situation. I pray for her family and the man who tried to save her life. I cannot imagine. I hope the family and the man find peace and closure. And I hope the professionals rot in jail for the rest of their lives.

[@999lijpo999]

20:39, I want to give a different perspective as someone with a chemical process safety background. One way valves are much more prone to failure than other types of equipment. When performing a risk analysis, their existence is ignored due to their inherent unreliability. 'you can leave it open and no water comes in' is to me as a risk analysist a dangerous assumption. Just because many divers leave it open, does not make it a best practice to disregard the scenario for the failure of a failure prone piece of equipment.

[@williamsweet7511]

10 feet, at 10 feet it was like having my boys in a vise. For me, no way I could make 30 feet. I'm thinking back to my first time in a drysuit and it was intense. I think the material the drysuit is made out of and the fit to your body, but with my Hollis drysuit, at 10 feet, I'm out of the water feeling like I got kicked in the privates. Add a little air, and it's like heaven. I will never dive in water colder than 75 degrees without my drysuit. I also have semi-dry and wetsuits. Drysuit diving changed my diving for the better. I dive a lot in California where the water can be 50F at the bottom and 60 to 70 at the surface depending on the time of year.