Power Station Or Generator Wont Power Your Furnace? Try This!

Three prong extension cord $13.00 : amzn.to/3iKEOQW
Three prong pigtail $4.00 : amzn.to/3krbFuR
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Howdy folks! I hope this video helps you resolve the issue of the furnace not working with your power station or generator. If so, please leave me a comment! Cheers, Dave
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⚠️ Disclaimer:
This video is for educational purposes. Any and all HVAC repair work is done at your own risk. The DIY HVAC Guy channel is not responsible for any possible damages or injuries caused by the use or misuse of the provided information.

[@cavymeister]

If you're going to do this, just clip the black and white wires and only solder/connect the green ones. Ideally just clipping the prongs will be sufficient, but not connecting the black and white wires will make doubly sure that there is no chance of back feeding power.

[@chaseme9860]

@StringerNews1 You can complete the circuit if it goes through the ground, so both wires need to be cut.

[@chaseme9860]

@StringerNews1 Why can't you back up your claims with science?

[@chaseme9860]

@StringerNews1 Yup, you're embarrassed someone schooled you about basic electricity when you actually thought you were smart. Now your only hope is to deviate from the subject because you now feel inferior.

[@5thGenNativeTexan]

@StringerNews1 He's not trying to complete a circuit, he's just extending a ground wire from the battery/power station to an existing ground, which in this case is the ground for the house. That's the only purpose of the green wire.

[@5thGenNativeTexan]

@StringerNews1 I'm speaking specifically to what some stand-alone power units (be it battery, gas generator, etc) may require. Many units have a ground tap on the unit for you to attach a ground wire (SINGLE wire) from the unit to an earth ground. He's doing the same thing here by connecting the ground from the stand-alone unit via the plug ground, and connecting it to the earth ground the house uses. It's no more complicated than that.

[@jackl9922]

I solved that issue by making sure the furnace itself was still grounded when the pigtail was unplugged from the outlet. That solved the ground reference difference since the ground in the generator cord is being utilized for that. Great videos.

[@ve3yjt]

Bingo. Came here for this. A few inches of scrap wire and an extra wire nut would make this all unnecessary.

[@MrKeithsplace]

I think your confused, he is using a power station not a generator. As in it’s an UPS, they will do some weird things not grounded. I’ve come across this before. Although if a newer one I thing they address this if the power chord for the UPS is connected to an outlet. Not sure what he’s using there but it looks like just a power bank, and it may charge with a wall wart, which would not work.

[@ThisMaineThing]

The furnace should probably have a continuous effective ground-fault current path (EGFCP). Something bonding it to the electrical panel even when an alternate power source is being used. NFPA 70 250.4 (2) Grounding of Electrical Equipment. Normally non- current-carrying conductive materials enclosing electrical conductors or equipment, or forming part of such equipment, shall be connected to earth so as to limit the voltage to ground on these materials.

[@thardie]

Like others have said - This only works because you're getting the effect of the ground/neutral bond in your main panel. A better way to do this would be a ground/neutral bond adapter at the power bank. Much simpler device too.

[@ambersmith6517]

AMEN!!!!!!!!

[@Billy_bSLAYER]

Not always the case... The circuit board in HE equipment will test the resistance on the ground and it will not work still.

[@azycray4801]

I think the reason mine is not working is I have an auto switch for my generator so my main panel is actually a sub panel without the neutral/ground bond. For mine to work I think I will have to connect my panel ground to my inverter. That's what I'm hoping anyway.

[@Billy_bSLAYER]

@@azycray4801 Your neutral and ground are bonded at the main panel. As per NEC code, they are not at the sub panel.... But they definitely are back at your main panel.

[@azycray4801]

@@Billy_bSLAYER Right, but since my whole house runs off of the sub panel, my neutral and ground will not be bonded was the point I was trying to make. But all I should need is to bond the house ground to the inverter. My Klien outlet tester is showing open ground on the inverter. I'm going to make up a short patch cord with only the ground connected and run from the inverter to the outlet my furnace normally plugs into.

[@andy-ti9zf]

pretty awesome fix. havent lost power yet this winter cause lines are mostly buried around here. in the rural area lines are surrounded by trees and when the winds come up everything becomes chaotic.

[@Tyler-ip5bc]

Will a neutral / ground bonding plug inserted into one of the outlets on the power station achieve the same results?

[@drwhoeric]

Wouldn't bonding the Ground and Neutral at the power source where it connects to Power Distribution Unit (PDU) be a better approach?

[@stevej4836]

I have a new furnace with a Nest thermostat. The thermostat would call for heat but nothing happened when running off the AC200 MAX. Tried an older simple thermostat and it worked fine. Turned out it was the Nest that didn't like the floating ground of the AC200 MAX. I added a neutral/ground bonding plug to the AC200 MAX and now the Nest is happy and the furnace runs fine.

[@rupe53]

Funny thing is a natural gas pipe should already be bonded (by new code) although a propane line probably won't be. Also, the 2x4 electrical box on the furnace is screwed to the cabinet so there should be a ground bond to the house system (via the BX / Romex) already, if all the grounds are tied together in that box.... as they should be. IOW, your short pigtail on the furnace should ring out to house ground. If not, that's where the problem is. Add a short piece of wire between the pigtail and that outlet ground at the 2x4 box and skip the rest.

[@rupe53]

@StringerNews1 ... bonding is in the gas code, but not bonding to the electrical system. All gas parts are bonded to the next part via their connections and if you change materials (black pipe to track pipe?) you need to add a bond. My point was a furnace is actually grounded via the gas in many cases, but this is just redundant. It's not for electrical code. The point I was trying to make was *IF* there's no electrical ground within the normal wiring, you should find out why instead of adding a work-around.

[@lalannej]

He cut off his house supply to the furnace with that kill box on the side, but probably did not think to ground the box from the isolated pigtail supply. In HVAC guys case its working, but other people may have overlooked this connection. HVAC guy is not an electrician!

[@rupe53]

@@lalannej ... you are right, he's not a sparkie. I think he should point out the real problem is others have failed to join all the grounds at the unit. (another one of his videos) I did both HVAC and generators, so I am familiar with some of these oversights. BTW, bonding in gas work is to prevent galvanic corrosion of dissimilar metals at joints, which can cause leaks. Jumpers are usually set back several inches from the joints.

[@denrayr]

@@rupe53 you're missing the real issue that prevents the furnace from running. The furnace passes a microamp signal, via the flame sensor, to ground. Without bonding the generator neutral to ground, you won't be completing that return path. The generator needs to have a bond between ground and neutral. I also recommend, as you suggest, making sure the furnace is bonded to the house ground. This makes sure the whole system is referenced to earth potential.

[@denrayr]

The bond that I'm describing also provides a return path for a ground fault event. Without it, the furnace cabinet/ductwork, and everything else would reference the generator voltage without pulling fault current that would otherwise trip the breaker at the generator.

[@dadstoysnthings]

Power station has nothing in that slot, it's just there to accommodate a 3 prong plug. So that plug is actually connecting to nothing in the power station. Shine a flashlight in there and you'll see its just a hole. So still a question on how it will work.

[@lalannej]

Good point!

[@jeremybelcher6681]

Yeah, the Bluetti has a floating ground and the ground terminal on the unit is a blank. My Jackery is the same way.

[@HobbyOrganist]

@StringerNews1 I think my Vtoman does not actually have anything connected inside to the 3rd prong as someone suggested was the case with their Jackery unit, in which case plugging a 3 prong plug into the outlet doesnt connect anything to the green 3rd prong, which would explain why some furnaces don't like it. BUT, *IF* the Vtoman had an actual functioning 3rd prong in it's outlets then I guess it would have to have that connected to the neutral to do anything even though the Vtoman is the power source. That would make the video make more sense making that connection to the home's bonding/green wire system to the furnace. I also see now why connecting the Vtoman to the breaker panel with an interlock kit to power one leg of the panel would use the home's green/bonding wire

[@mikemiller5139]

My generator (gas) has a grounding stud and nut, I set it outside the garage and have a 6ft piece of copper ground wire connected to my house earth ground rod. Is this the same thing?

[@coolizmc]

Identical. this method is just using the existing house wiring to get to the ground rod

[@jlh2119]

Thank you for the video! I appreciate the time and effort you invest in your channel!! Question… The furnaces of today are considered an inductive load with the motor for the blower? I’ve read it’s not a good idea to use a battery power station to run heavy inductive loads (refrigerator/furnace) as the inductive load startups will far shorten the lifespan of the power station. Is there a better inverter (and transformer? ) to use to power the furnace in a grid down situation?

[@brettchermansky7715]

I tried this several weeks ago after getting an eight Led warning code of bad ground on my furnace generator setup and it did not work. Turns out many modern furnaces expect to see the ground and white wires connected at tour breaker box. This is not present on the generator. I made a cable that goes between my generator and furnace that ties ground to white and IT WORKS! Hope that helps the people that tgis video still didn't fix the issue.

[@diyhvacguy]

Thanks for sharing. Where did you make the connection?

[@paulehd]

Thank You so much We used the generator power cord and plug set up to power my heater in the last storm

[@MJL24276]

Hi, thanks for your videos. I am trying to hook mine up like yours . I have a new Firman 2000i generator just purchased from Costco, a 70 btu Goodman furnace. Hooked it up like you have . It runs the exhaust motor then lights the igniter orange then shuts down and won’t light the flame. Tried many times , no go. If I do the ground hookup like you have shown, do you think that will work. Furnace was made in 2007. I really enjoy your videos. Please respond if you can. I am from mid Ontario, Canada.

[@trevorritchie2575]

This might work but just because something works doesn't mean it should be done that way. A portable power source should not be grounded to the building. The reason the equipment isn't working is because it needs a bonded neutral and the inverter uses a floating neutral. The solution is to buy or make a bonding plug to connect the neutral to ground and plug it into one of the outlets on the portable power source. Keep up the great videos!

[@unixpro2]

Super video to add to the series! I’m hoping to get my high efficiency furnace retrofitted with your earlier switched outlet hack so I can use a battery pack during an outage. I think I’ll take the advice of another commenter and just connect the ground wire and not clip the prongs f I need this hack

[@HobbyOrganist]

Yeah same here, I ordered one of those switched outlets on Amazon, I'm going to connect my Goodman that way and I have a Vtoman jump 1000 In reading some comments I think my Vtoman does not actually have anything connected inside to the 3rd prong as someone suggested was the case with their Jackery unit, in which case plugging a 3 prong plug into the outlet doesnt connect anything to the green 3rd prong, which would explain why some furnaces don't like it. BUT, *IF* the Vtoman had an actual functioning 3rd prong in it's outlets then I guess it would have to have that connected to the neutral to do anything, nut that wouldnt be a good solution! This would make the video make more sense with that connection to the home's bonding/green wire system to the furnace. I also see now why connecting the Vtoman to the breaker panel with an interlock kit to power one leg of the panel would use the home's green/bonding wire. So the big issue seems to be these battery inverters dont actually have anything connected to the 3rd prong inside their outlets, the Vtoman has a little metal tab inside the hole but a multimeter shows it's not connected to anything, it's just a spring to hold the plug in better. I have a breaker panel interlock kit, so I can shut the main off and plug the Vtoman into the outdoor outlet made for plugging a "whole house" generator into, and as it is now- power one leg of the breaker panel that has the most used lights, fridge and furnace on that. On a longer term outage I could just plug the furnace directly into the Vtoman by itself, and use a generator outside to power the one leg of the breaker panel for the fridge and lights. I dont think the Vtoman will run BOTH the fridge and the furnace together well longish term because of the high draw when either or both initially start up if they both started up together.

[@jebediah2345]

I love that you're sharing the solution but I'm skeptical to do this without some more explanation around WHY it doesn't work in the first place and how this change to the electrical circuit fixes the problem.

[@davidnecky8524]

Your high efficiency furnace requires flame rectification to prove flame. The rectification process uses ground as a reference point on the circuit board. If you are not connected to the same ground with the furnace and power source the furnace will go out on no proof of flame.

[@christopherolson2235]

Thank you for all you do man!! Your videos are SUPER helpful. HVAC was a mystery to me before learning stuff from you. And you are probably going to save a lot of lives with these hacks. So thanks

[@TheDeadheadable]

This guy is going to kill people. Call your local Hvac compony they will talk you through things. Hvac guys dont want to go out on calls at night or the weekend they will talk you through it all over the phone.

[@davidgordon8102]

In another video I saw on you tube a content creator just joined the neutral and ground wire together on his power cord. They used a neutral - ground bonding plug. That's how they created the ground directly from the power station. At least that's the way I understood it.

[@Bassguitarist1985]

Have you confirmed the Bluetti Power Station has a floating neutral? Meaning the neutral and the earth ground are not bonded? Likely it is not bonded, I cannot find the spec, but this will explain why the furnace won't work properly. Yes your ground wire idea has merit, but there is a much better way to implement rather than cutting the neutral and hot prongs. Many modern furnaces as you know rely on "flame rectification" and the neutral must be referenced to earth in order to work properly. I've seen furnaces only turn on the blower and fire the flame momentarily only to shut off because of an improper bond to earth at the incoming neutral. You are on the right track! Great content!

[@Bassguitarist1985]

@@Kevin-mp5of I agree this could have been done a lot more simple than what was shown. To be fair he's not an electrician but he was on the right track

[@elfnetdesigns702]

The biggest problem I see with this is the fact most inverters and power supplies are modified sine wave types which is not good for inductive loads as it causes something like a blower motor to generate excessive heat which will lead to premature failure of the motor and possible fire if it's a worst case. If you are planning to run inductive loads like fans / A/C units, power tools, appliances like a fridge and such then you need to make sure your inverter is a pure sine inverter first of all, secondly since inductive loads draw alot of current initially on startup, make sure the RMS wattage exceeds what your appliance is using during startup as most inverters have a bold number on the labels, that number would be the peak or spike wattage which is not a constant SO if your motor needs 500 watts to start and 250 watts to run you want your inverter to be able to supply a constant 500 or more watts and this is because some loads take longer starting than most inverters can deliver in peak/spike mode before something lets out the magic smoke or starts to become degraded due to overloading, or the inverter just shuts down to save itself if it's a good quality inverter.

[@danschreckengost6153]

I purchased a MWXNE 1200 Watt Pure Sine Wave inverter to power my furnace. I followed your video to install an extension cord from inside the junction box so that I could plug the furnace into the outlet. All this worked well on my 3 year old furnace. When I attempt to run the furnace with the inverter, the motor kicks on but there is no heat and the furnace does not respond to the thermostat. So, I followed this video and built an extension cord that only has the ground wire prong on both ends. I plugged this cord into one of the outlets on the inverter and the other end into the ground connection at the furnace outlet. No change, the furnace kicks on, no heat, and after a few minutes it shuts down and does not respond to the thermostat. The inverter is connected to the battery in my Honda CRV. The inverter output voltage is 113v regardless if the CRV is running or not. With out the inverter the furnace works fine. Any ideas before I return this inverter to Amazon??

[@iamsmartacus]

Is this to fix the problem where the furnace won't run because the power station doesn't have its neutral bonded to its ground? Because if so, I don't think the solution you've shown will fix the problem. The house ground is bonded to neutral back at the breaker panel, but it didn't look like that house neutral is connected anywhere to the neutral coming from your power station, at least as you've wired things up. On the other hand, if it's just that the power station's ground needs to be connected to house ground in order for the furnace to run, for reasons I'm not sure I understand, then isn't that already accomplished when you plug the generator into the furnace? The ground from the furnace's power cord is connected to the furnace's case. Which is connected via screws, presumably, to the junction box you've mounted on the side. Which is again connected via screws to the ground screw on that switch/receptacle combo inside the junction box. Which is connected to house ground. I don't see why you need a separate cord to connect the power station ground to the house ground.

[@diyhvacguy]

I have been told by several folks that this resolved their problem so I just wanted to share. If it doesn’t fix it, it’s not the end of the world.

[@MarcFain]

@@diyhvacguy We do appreciate you passing on others experiences in an effort to help others. I suspect whomever told you this had a different setup. With that said, I can't think of a single example where tying the floating generator to earth ground will do anything useful. If the entire system (generator & furnace) is isolated from earth ground then a person can touch any ONE of the 3 wires (ground, neutral, line) and NOT get zapped, and furnace should run so long as generator ground connects to furnace ground (The furnace can't distinguish between generator ground and earth ground). The other case would be when the furnace is already connected to earth ground via some other path (such as junction box) in which case the generator ground to earth ground connection is redundant.

[@billcsho]

Exactly. And it still did not work for me. I think it may need to be bonded to the neutral from the generator.

[@iamsmartacus]

@@billcsho Yeah, my guess is that connecting the generator’s ground to the ground on a home electrical outlet is correcting some problem for people who did not wire things up correctly, according to how it was done in the DIY HVAC Guy's earlier video (titled "Don't Let A Power Outage Leave You Without Heat This Winter!") If things are wired up correctly, I think it should work. Unless your particular furnace won’t run without the neutral and ground being bonded together, which you should do at the generator. (Not sure, but I believe this happens because some furnaces have a flame sensor that uses the ground as a current return path.)

[@billcsho]

@@iamsmartacus I am going to install a transfer switch panel which will bond the ground and neutral of my generator input. With the switch panel, I actually don't need to do the pig tail mod that I did last week.

[@aq6825]

When you make the plug for the furnace, why not pigtail the ground wire into both the extension cord AND directly back to the gangbox. Should ensure when you plug into the power pack that the furnace is still grounded via the gang box

[@larrybell4599]

Great idea. These high efficiency machines can be too smart for a basic hookup.

[@william18miller]

Just buy a new plug end instead of the pigtail and avoid the soldering since it will have screw in terminals for the 3 wires

[@yolo_burrito]

Love the Florida Style jeans and Flip Flops.

[@Krankie_V]

If you're only trying to connect the grounds, why would you bother to solder all 3 wires together? Only connect the green one.

[@davecarlson9350]

If you plug the ground wire you made into the outlet installed at the furnace, where will you plug in the power cord for the furnace?

[@thomasmelanson9739]

I have a problem with this. Feel free if I am wrong. So you are using the ground in your house to bond you're power source. What happens if you power source shorts out? Won't the power go the the ground in your house panel that is bonded to your neutral, sending power on the mains?

[@glgermain]

I have seen people discuss a way that is cheaper and safer. What they do is create a plug that ties the ground to the neutral on the inside and doesn't connect the hot. They then connect the plug into a power strip that has a reset that trips in the event of a short. Supply power to the power strip by connecting it to the unbonded generator or inverter. Plug the furnace into another receptacle on the power strip. I'm told that this will create the neutral-ground bond that is needed by the furnace without modifying the furnace or the generator/inverter. It also does not use the neutral bond at the panel which is made to trip a breaker in the event of a short, but will not trip a breaker when used the way you have it because the short will not run through a breaker.

[@Icehso140]

If the furnace is run off a subpanel, you do not want equipment grounds and neutrals connected together by code. EGCs and GECs and only be connected together at the service panel containing the first OCPD. Be careful not to bond the 2 together in a subpanel situation. Make friends with an electrician and buy him/her lunch instead of guessing.

[@davidritz2724]

A neutral ground bonding plug plugged into the power generator is cheaper!

[@dadstoysnthings]

Curious if you've actually tried it and what brand/model of powerstation you used.

[@davidritz2724]

@@dadstoysnthings I had to get the plug and it works. I have a BLUETTI AC200max. After seeing what that plug really is, it would have been cheaper going to Home Depot and making one. I got it off Amazon for $16.

[@mikerevendale4810]

If you're wiring temporary power to the furnace it's also important to use as short of an extension cord as possible; and use one that's at least a #12 gauge wire. Stay away from those cheaper #14 and #16 gauge cords.

[@stevenshircliff393]

Nice video! Might add that you wouldn't want to charge your power station with AC while the grounding plug is attached. Could possibly damage it while creating a ground loop.

[@hamrev4228]

Would you mind trying to explain how a ground loop could possibly damage your portable power station while being charged. Most if not all smaller power stations use a charging brick connected to the AC that converts to DC for charging. This provides no ground connection to the power station input side. Ours uses an AC cord with ground to the build-in charger. We have experienced no damage to my knowledge over the many months that we have been using our power station as an uninterrupted power supply for our refrigerator and freezer. They are connected to our house safety ground all the time because we are using the house wiring to get the power to them. So our power station is connected to safety ground on the input side and on the output side at all the times.

[@stevenshircliff393]

@Hamrev Just know that if you connect a bonding plug to Delta Pro and try to charge with AC it will smoke it.

[@hamrev4228]

@@stevenshircliff393 Well that is most unfortunate. And I am sorry to hear that. But my older Delta is not pro and works perfectly well as a UPS for us, and I am glad that it didn’t smoke. But the manual did say that it worked as a UPS.

[@stevej4836]

Trying to understand all of this and how it affects me. I need a neutral/ground bonding plug in my AC200 MAX to make my Nest thermostat happy so the furnace can run. Let's say it is January and cloudy all the time so no solar and I need to charge up the batteries so I turn to my Honda EU2200 to provide the charge. Since the Honda is not bonded to ground will this work without damaging anything?

[@dkat1108]

Eric need some advice help. So my inverter generator has a bonded neutral now if my furnace is disconnected from the house wiring as this video is and I wire it to be only connected to my inverter geny what about the ground that is attached to the metal frame on the furnace via my inverter is the metal ducks vents and furnace frame connected to a house ground somewhere else in the system ? would this be an issue ?@Eric-ii9ce

[@stevelasher422]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why do you need two grounds? I mean, doesn't the extension cord that plugs the furnace into the power station have a ground?

[@thomabb]

Wouldn't a neutral-ground bond plug at the generator resolve the problem?

[@dougj3528]

isn’t the house electrical ground bonded to the neutral at the main panel? unless you’ve turned off the mains, wouldn’t that risk your ground backfeeding out of your home via the bonded neutral?

[@coolizmc]

No because the hot from the generator is not connected to the line there isn't a complete circuit.

[@infunerous666]

Can you just use the ground of your furnace pigtail and connect to the ground house supply?

[@tedsmith5058]

Hello from the great state of Michigan

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

So the furnace isn't already connected to ground? There may be a wiring problem because ground is never switched, disconnected or turned off, there's no device in the system for this purpose.

[@JeffJacobbi]

Your videos are very helpful but still having a problem getting my furnace (just the blower does not work, fires up no problem) to run on my generator. In past years I have had NO problem running the furnace with this system. A professional hvac/electrical company told me to get a new gen/inverter (pulsar 7250 watt/6500) which I did and still not working. Than they said they would change the motor, they have yet to do so and now they are ghosting me. I don't think they know how to solve this. I have watched your helpful videos (bonding, direct grounding and by-passing the transfer box and running a direct cord to the gen/inverter) and still I can not get the blower to work. Its a 2017 Bryant and it gives a code 12 which does not make sense because the blower will not come on) . Everything else in the house works fine and with everything on the in the house the gen/inverter is only using 50% of the power. Any ideas of what to try next?

[@sirmichael7155]

What am I missing ❓I have a generator wired to panel box thus to HVAC. What does this hack do that’s not already being done ?

[@supersoberano2095]

As always great Vid brother.

[@MrKeithsplace]

Is that a power bank or an UPS? Does it have a standard power chord?

[@Sylvan_dB]

Or just use a length of 12ga wire with a 4mm banana plug on each end. Or how come your furnace and power station didn't ground thru the three-wire cord and plug you installed?

[@SavedByFaithInJesus]

Not nit picking, but what about some Stranded THHN Green by the foot and two male ends (no need to cut the Hot and neutral blades)?? Why waste an extension cord even though it's 16ga or 14ga? Just for a dedicated ground?

[@RoyHubby]

Will a bonding plug work? I have 1 I don't use

[@rickschiaffo618]

I'm confused. I saw you plug only a ground plug into your furnace. So how does it get power?

[@shelton126]

I may be missing something here. After hooking up the ground like you showed, where do I plug my power station to give juice to the furnace. Would I use an adapter, split so the furnace can have both the ground and the power source plugged in?

[@diyhvacguy]

Not a joke. You plug your power cord in like normal from the furnace to the power station. You use on of the other outlets as your means to use your home ground. I don’t know why this would come across as a joke but ok 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@HobbyOrganist]

Your power station should have several outlets, you'd be using only one for the bonding like it shows in the video- that green pin/wire would be connected to all the outlets on it, so when you plug the furnace into that, the green pin on that is connecting inside to the same green bonding wire as the other outlets. The big issue seems to be that the Jackery and the Vtoman battery inverters apparently dont HAVE anything at all connected to the 3rd pin inside the outlets.

[@hdman97]

Why can’t you just ground your generator to the same ground as the home service?

[@LeeWinkler]

Since all you are doing is creating a ground for your power supply, did you really need to run the ground back to the furnace? I mean, with the furnace not plugged into that you should have been able to plug your 'suicide ground' into wall outlet, right?

[@NikosDelight]

I have a condensate pump plugged into the same power box as the heater when i turn the switch off it shuts power off to the gas heater and leaves power on to the condensate pump is that the same as you are trying to accomplish on your video ? Thanks

[@yanironistal1717]

Hello, your videos are awesome! Thanks for teaching all us!! Question: for the 2ton system at 50 degrees (f) ambient temperature what is a normal working pressures range?

[@jamminwrenches860]

Too many factors to get a solid answer like refrigerant type, fan speed, coil cleanliness, even filter type and dirty ness. But generally 250-350 psi high side. Actual results will vary.

[@hitchpost5822]

Hello I have another challenge for you, you may already be working on. In two of your previous videos you used a couple of different power stations a Vtoman & a Ecoflow. Per your videos you were able to power your furnace for 14 hours on the Vtoman unit and 10 hours on the Ecoflow. If I were to face a multi day outage I would plan on running the furnace on a generator during the day and a power station at night.The Ecoflow’s 10 hours won’t work and the Vtoman although 14 hours would work, it’s low input makes it’s recharge time too long. I would need enough power to run my furnace for 14 hours on a power bank, so I would not disturb the neighbors with noise from the generator. I also would need the unit to be able to recharge quickly enough to make it viable. I noticed you had a Bluetti power station, have you run your furnace on it to see how long it will power it ? How fast can you recharge the Bluetti power station ? I would probably use a generator because depending on solar panels during inclement weather would not be a reliable option. Thank you for your videos on this important subject.

[@diyhvacguy]

Bluetti is coming out hopefully this week so stay tuned for that one :) cheers

[@stevej4836]

I ran our furnace from a Bluetti AC200 MAX with B230 supplemental battery for 48 hours. Of course, the furnace only ran as needed during that time. Outside temp was roughly 30. Started with system at 100% and ran down to zero. If I remember correctly furnace draws around 330 watts while running.

[@hitchpost5822]

@@stevej4836 Hello, that is useful information thank you for sharing

[@cryptickcryptick2241]

If you are in a prolonged power outage, running the furnace periodically, should be enough. Many furnaces are oversized for a house, and they should not need to run 24/7; while the house will get a little cool periodically, potentially falling from 70 to 50 or even 40 overnight; the next morning you can warm it back up. Other super low tech solutions could be an auxiliary non-powered propane or kerosene heater. Having such a heater on hand can also be handy as it can be lent out and easily transported.

[@hitchpost5822]

​@@cryptickcryptick2241 Thank you for your response, good ideas, my main concern is keeping the pipes from freezing. It is also nice to have a warm home if possible. I usually keep the house around 60° to keep the bills affordable.The downside is there is not as much built up heat load so the house cools more quickly.

[@martinyorke3260]

Hi I've been following your KZbin channel and I follow all the instructions You did. my furnace will not work with this bluetti AC200MAX. My furnace is a Trane XR80 the furnace blower constantly is blowing. What else do you recommend that I can try

[@diyhvacguy]

If you have a cord already built, I’d try bonding the neutral to ground. So the white wire in your pigtail, I’d just open up your connection and take the white and connect it to the bare copper wire or the green wire, and see if that resolves it.

[@martinyorke3260]

Hey thank you very much it works, I have been following a couple of KZbiner and following their instructions and it did not work but yours work thank you very much. I am using the new Milwaukee M18 generator I put it on a timer to see how long will it run my furnace for I am using the high output HD 12.0 batteries, then I'm going to run the furnace on that bluetti AC200MAX with the timer on it to see how long the furnace will operate

[@joecave7951]

Thanks for your video. I tried to run my furnace off a generator just to keep pipes from freezing and it kept giving me an error code on furnace something like power fluctuation. It is a fairly new high efficiency furnace that I assume is very sensitive. I have a large generator that supplies plenty of power and never considered not being able to run anything I need to. Could this be possibly what you describe in this video? A ground issue? Any thoughts? Thanks

[@diyhvacguy]

Very much so possible. If this doesn’t work another thing you can try is bonding the neutral to ground. So make the same cord I made in this video but on the end with the pigtail, connect the ground to neutral so that both the neutral and ground wire go to the ground terminal. That could very well fix your problem. Hope this helps! Cheers

[@timcat1004]

Why not permanently bond the ground to the furnace from the outlet at the furnace? My two stage Carrier does not work from multiple pure sine UPS that I have tried.

[@uhjyuff2095]

Newer furnace doesn't work on a floating neutral generator. I guess this will work. The trick is to do it safely without causing injury to yourself or damage to your equipment. GFCI devices are for personal safety, I suggest buying an extension cord with a GFCI device on it.

[@tacobannana6628]

My solar generator is a 2000 watt okitel unit and it only outputs 111 volts instead of the normal 119 or 120 so my newer furnace wont run even with this suicide cord. Do i just need to use a different solar generator then you think? Thanks again! I ran it fine off of a champion inverter gas generator, just have to run the extension cable outside vs using my solar generator inside.

[@diyhvacguy]

Try picking up one of these and plug it into one of your other outlets on your power station: amzn.to/3kQXMGo

[@sorinankitt]

Good idea. A spool of 12 or 14 gauge wire would artifice and most likely be cheaper. A thick wire pin type connector can be saudered to either end.

[@jacktanner7738]

Suffice, not artifice.

[@imridingwithstoopidohwaiti3948]

neat idea but thats not a suicide cord you would have to leave all prongs on it and swap common and neutral this will join the two phases of the 220 feed to the house... its only needed if feeding a hose with 110v

[@peteeats6615]

does'nt work. still have a code 26 on my rheam furnace. Have not idea why it wouldnt work.

[@KenGrebel-b4p]

I tried the ground fix with my furnace but it did not help. My fan comes on but the heat element does not come on. My main blower then comes on but there is no heat.

[@zackjablonski]

Couldn’t you just use a ground/neutral bonding plug in the power station to do the same thing?

[@diyhvacguy]

That’s a good suggestion but for me, when I bought my house the furnace didn’t have a ground wire, so that wouldn’t help me. That’s under the assumption that your furnace is grounded. I’ll have to do a video on the bonding plug. Thanks for the input!

[@ironfistdave8571]

Hope your having a great day I have a question does the battery in the thermostat create the juice to keep the thermostat working and it coming off and on to regulate Heat for instance if your running a cord from your heater out to a generator ?

[@diyhvacguy]

Yep as long as the furnace has power, the furnace will function as normal 👍🏼

[@ironfistdave8571]

@@diyhvacguy thanks I appreciate it you're Awesome 🤙🏽 my guess is that the thermostat wires that sensor off and on go to the Electrical outlet that the furnace is plugged into ?

[@markymark8665]

@@ironfistdave8571The thermostat gets it’s power from the furnace, provided the furnace has AC power. The battery in the thermostat is to backup the settings only.

[@bluenetmarketing]

There is no point in plugging the ground plug into the furnace since that's what you are trying to power. You should have demonstrated plugging it into a wall outlet, and then your power cord from the battery backup gets plugged into your furnace.

Always a way to fool them computers and sensors. I had to bond neutral at the invertor and ground at house. Finally ran a good check cycle.

[@preyingmathis2517]

What do I need to do to get my 7500wat generator to turn on my full electric furnace?

[@walksridges]

Unfortunately, because I'm using a Jackery Explorer 1000, this method doesn't work because the Jackery has an open ground space for the ground plug. The work around is to use a Neutral-Ground bond plug along with a multiport extension cord. It works great by "fooling" the furnace electronics into thinking there is a proper ground. Of course the pigtail itself is grounded to the housing of the furnace. I hope this helps anyone else who runs into this problem. I have not tested my gas powered generator to see how it works with the new setup.

[@billcsho]

I have this exact problem, however, I have the socket and the pig tail from furnace connected together at the furnace and to the ground from panel already. And yet, it did not work when plugging the pig tail to the generator. It just blow cold air and cannot ignite the burner.

[@kenthoman3068]

I tried a suicide cord to create a ground and my furnace still won't fire. My humidifier runs a low fan comes on and the condensation pump runs .

[@ThisMaineThing]

The furnace should probably have a continuous effective ground-fault current path (EGFCP) NFPA 70 250.4 (A)(2) Grounding of Electrical Equipment. Normally non- current-carrying conductive materials enclosing electrical conductors or equipment, or forming part of such equipment, shall be connected to earth so as to limit the voltage to ground on these materials.

[@paulrozinski1488]

Look at your power station or inverter, you will see a separate earth ground hook up. Connect that to your house Earth ground. I’m lucky, I have my house ground rod right next to my cord entry into the basement

[@joshenderzone]

Pressing X for doubt. ICE generator to turn a floating into a bonded N you can just cut the prong end off and tie Ground and Neutral together make a bonding Plug and then when you don't need bonded you just unplug it. some of these batteries like mentioned that Ground plug isn't there. just empty hole.

[@gcraig0001]

You can actually buy a cord that is already made up with just a ground cable, normally used to ground a computer when opening it up to work on it.

[@diyhvacguy]

Interesting. I looked for one and couldn’t find it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@jamesde6515]

my gas furnace only turns the blower on the exciter runs but will not ignite,i am using a champion generator/inverter its 2000watts and 1700 ,would the suicide cord work?thank you

[@ZenS-jg5zs]

That's my problem too, have you solved the problem?

[@TomCee53]

If the furnace is properly grounded this shouldn’t be a concern. If you insist on doing this, just get a small roll of green wire, 16 ga should work, and two three-prong plugs. Run the wire between the green ground screws and leave the brass/silver screws unconnected. Again, if the cord from the furnace is grounded to the frame and the breaker panel, it is the same thing. My suspicion is non-electricians taking shortcuts. Cutting off the line & neutral pins just scares me.

[@crazysquirrel9425]

Many electronics use ground as a reference.

[@solarsynapse]

How is this different than simply plugging in a 3 prong plug?

[@diyhvacguy]

One, it will be female on one end, and two if power is restored you’ll have major backfeeding

[@coondogtheman]

What if you bonded the neutral and ground together. Maybe it's like an electric car battery which wont charge on a floating ground.

[@keovongvilaykeo4799]

Thanks you great content 😊

[@revbikerbigd8664]

They do sell a male to male 1 foot plug on internet for about $10 ,got mine on eBay, just cut off the 4 spades !

[@chadrogers3161]

There is a better way to do without DIY people having to try to do this. They sell a small 3 prong device to solve Open Ground issue fyi.

[@amorales9613]

Why is the power station outdoors?

[@ericssmith2014]

To make it easier to ground it. Wait...

[@robertgaines-tulsa]

Seems like a waste of a perfectly good extension cord. What I would do is get two cheap replacement grounded plugs and a length of stranded 16 gauge wire preferably in green but not required to work. Just connect the two ends of the wire to only the ground pins of the plug. The hot and neutral pins are left disconnected and isolated inside the plug but serve to help hold the plug in the outlets. To be extra safe, you can take a continuity tester and make sure that only the ground pins on both sides are connected since it is a "suicide" cord.

[@robertgaines-tulsa]

If the power station doesn't have connecting grounds, just connect the other side of the ground wire directly to a metal screw on the furnace.

[@thecataclysmitician4661]

Or... You can just buy 2, 3 prong male plug ends, remove both hot and neutral prongs, don't wire the hot and neutral wires, and do it to both ends. No need to solder anything, and you can just ignore the black and white wires..... Electricity CAN JUMP, (ARC), so why in the heck would you even include the black and white wires in this set up? Some people don't know how to think things through I guess?

[@michaelw123]

Although this work around fixes the issue it’s not a fix. As an electrician, nothing works better than a properly wired device. In a pinch fine but have your wiring done correctly!!

[@robertworden9810]

Just buy a replacement plug for a few bucks instead of a pigtail. They simply screw on with no soldering.

[@raylaux8295]

The reason it won't work is the inverter ground is not bonded to the inverter neutral. If you do bond them the inverter will burn up.

[@Icehso140]

All furnaces should be grounded/bonded to earth ground...especially natural gas which is bonded through the steel gas pipeline which has to be bonded by code. If your setup is not working, you should call an electrician to find out why and stop guessing.

[@billy2bob63]

Power station or generator get a transfer switch problem solved 👍🏻

[@thomaschatham9971]

Why is your video shot in Mirror mode?

[@diyhvacguy]

Because I won’t know where I’m pointing the camera otherwise lol

[@paul4utica]

I own the oupes 1800 and it does not work.

[@markymark8665]

For those with a battery generator where the ground prong is blank (Ecoflow, etc.) a reader on another thread said he solved the issue by using a three outlet tap plugged into the generator with a bonding plug (Amazon) into one plug and his extension cord out to the furnace into another plug. It was also stated that using a power strip in the same way would work, but I have not tried either of these methods.

[@3ccdmike]

If the furnace is fully grounded why wouldn't a power station work.

[@miken7629]

Seems unnecessary, your outlet box is already hooked to your house ground so your power station will be connected to that house ground when using 3 wire extension cord.

[@EricN73158]

Why not just install a male end on the cord. I am more or less 100% sure a cord like that is illegal but hey don't say you did not know lol

[@daveyt4802]

I hear lower eff furnaces last a lot longer than high eff furnaces due to the complicated HE's...Hmmmm

[@ericssmith2014]

I hear you have to pay for fuel every time your furnace runs...Hmmmmm

[@denrayr]

There's a much better solution to this problem. The real issue is that, in reference to the generator, the furnace has a floating ground. The reason for this is many portable generators are designed to float the ground. The furnace relies on the ground to prove ignition through the flame sensor. The best practice fix would be to bond the ground to neutral at the generator (in an isolated system). Before the trolls chime in, this particular method of backup isolates the furnace as a single load on the generator. He's not connecting as a source to the panel in the house. Now that I've got that out of the way, let's talk about how to bond the neutral to the ground. It sounds like the battery systems don't even have an internal ground, so I'd build a special extension cord adapter. I'd take a short 1 foot extension cord, cut it in the middle, and splice inside a sealed j box. The connections would go as follows: black connects to black, then you'd connect the greens and whites together (4 wires in one splice.) This method bonds the ground to neutral at the generator making the installation safe. You have a non current carrying redundant return path (ground wire to the generator source) in the event of a ground fault. You also have a return path for the microamp signal that the flame sensor requires. To really make sure the install is safe, I'd also make sure the furnace is bonded to the house ground. This will make sure that the furnace and generator reference to earth potential. Take my advice with a grain of salt. If you don't understand the theory behind all of this, then don't attempt. Keeping your family warm during a storm doesn't mean anything if you electrocute your kid in the process. Be safe!

[@denrayr]

I didn't make it clear that the extension cord adapter connects to the generator, then the furnace extension cord connects to the adapter.

[@denrayr]

I'd also like to comment that the fix in this video just bonds the house ground to the generator ground. If the generator has a floating ground, there still isn't a return path. You need to have a bond between generator neutral and the ground path. This video presents potentially dangerous advice.

[@MorganTheva]

Thanks for this video. It helped me make a mod in my CDN home setup kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6SUmGmte7KVipo Buying a 720Wh power station and getting an electrician to help me out was the best value method for getting aprox 8 hrs of power during an ice storm. You can always buy more LiFePo4 portable power stations later, as prices drop, to get a longer run time by swapping out. 8 hrs is a good nights sleep. Be sure to turn off the power switch for the furnace, on your panel during such an outage, thus avoiding accidently electrocuting yourself when swapping back the power plug. Those prongs on the plug in my video clip rather like live wires so I have nice red tags explain how to safely use them.