Does Anyone Care About Male Loneliness? - Max Dickins

[@ChrisWillx]

Hello my dudes. Here's the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:43 Difference Between Man Up & Open Up 08:48 Why is Male Loneliness Unique? 19:49 Fundamentals of Friendship 25:56 How Treatment for Men & Women Should be Different 33:24 Defining Masculinity 40:21 Is this a British Problem? 50:55 Emotional Labour & Marriage 57:52 Importance of Bonding Through Doing Things 1:06:29 Max’s Thoughts on the Manosphere 1:14:07 How to Prevent Male Loneliness 1:16:45 Where to Find Max

[@azhivago2296]

Interesting what you said about the emerging tension between the 'embrace masculinity' camp and the 'don't bottle it up camp'. One possible way to solve this is 'pussies hide and deny their struggles, strong people have the strength to be honest about them'. Doesn't mean you have to overshare or crumble under pressure, just be confident about being human and sometimes struggling. i.e. get more secure about feeling insecure.

[@celladoor_uk]

@@azhivago2296 I love that line of logic man, I have a pretentious saying, one must be brave enough to feel like a coward.

[@ruff4608]

Why can't men have the same attitude towards feelings/emotions as 'gear heads' have the attitude with cars/engines? Understand it, discuss it, tweak and optimize.

[@thatwasprettyneat]

Thank you, Mr. Williamson.

[@AmeliaBodilia]

@@ruff4608 because emotions can leave you feeling vulnerable and men are not comfortable with that.

[@maciejkleszczynski9808]

Isnt it interesting how for many guys the closest thing to talking about their loneliness with a friend is listening to an hour long podcast about male loneliness?

[@potter5647]

you are right bro, let's talk

[@blakesleyk.7166]

Yes, so true. The overall loneliness is crushing and not in a good way. Situation dire.

[@roadrash2005]

I’ve replaced actual friends with podcasts since Lockdowns happened

[@potter5647]

@@roadrash2005 let's talk

[@lennard5393]

ill give you an awnser after watching this.

[@MartialistKS]

My problem with being the guy who's always reaching out, always the one to set things up is that at some point you wonder if people really like or if they just like that someone wants to spend time them. I get really tired of always being the one to reach out and set things up and never being the one reached out to.

[@230mps]

I'm the same way. I reach out and plan things. They rarely happen because of other people. But if i didn't reach out and plan, nothing would ever happen.

[@AnTalk_blog]

Very similar experience. When I moved abroad, I tried to keep up with my friends. After a while I noticed that it's always only me who initiates anything. I stopped, just waited who is looking for me. Don't write, don't answer. It went down to one family with whom we still keep in touch. And even that one is mainly due to our wifes and daughters.

[@Nattyog]

@@zappaa191 absolutely agree with you. I rarely reach out even though I keep telling myself I will. Appreciate your comment though maybe I’ll finally prioritize social activities more.

[@BellaBella-jw9ef]

It can be frustrating, but it’s worth it.

[@annabanana2623]

Yup. Although I'm guilty of being one who was hard to reach out to. It's always for a reason.

[@charlesb2895]

Reach out to your friends. Even the ones who you think are “crushing it” and appear to have everything going for them may be drowning under the weight of it and nobody checks in on them because they just assume that they’re fine. Spread love.

[@ChrisWillx]

This is great. Positive sum.

[@prestonpaulzubal4593]

As well be aware if you ask how are you to those types of people, they might just run down accomplishments or positive trends unrelated to how they actually feel. (At least thats how I've tended to respons)

[@unnecessaryapostrophe4047]

That's assuming we all have friends.

[@Fir3bird23]

1000% this. At risk of sounding extremely arrogant- I used to always be that friend for people. 9 times out of 10 everyone thought I was fine when really I absolutely was not.

[@rnt45t1]

I don't have any friends anymore.

[@retro.musictrip]

"Most people aren't introverted, they are just around friends that are shit" Chris Williamson

[@Beederda]

Absolutely 100% truth can confirm in real time lol

[@raresmocanu1743]

Going on a trip abroad with my mates right after hearing that was an eye-opener. This talk was the cherry on top.

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

You always think you are until you meet a really good friend and suddenly y’all talk, hangout, and do shit together A LOT

[@SmileyEmoji42]

But remember that somebody has to start the good conversations and it's unfair to criticise others for acting the same as you. Contrariwise - Don't be the guy who kicks off with a statement about the weather or the traffic on the A38.

[@retro.musictrip]

@Jojo Moa agree

[@carnivoreRon]

When my wife died, I was alone except for my children. Over the years, I started going to the gym and reaching out to other men. I have one solid friend and other men at the gym I can talk to. With children, work, wife then she developed cancer, the friends drifted away. They had their own lives they focused on. I'm an introvert, so I am mostly self sufficient. But I need male friends that I can talk to about male things.

[@Kenobi5001]

Men don't really need a lot of friends, maybe that is old school and toxic, but it is nice to have at least one buddy, for a lot of us that is our partner until we lose them. Women are supposed to outlive us.. I think they are much better to adapting to becoming single than we would be. I hope you know that whether you know other men or not we would have a great deal of empathy for you in your situation even though we don't tend to show it/you don't see it, that is just dudes for you. I think helping others, perhaps through giving up two or three hours a week to volunteerng can really speak to that 'provider' instinct within us that can give our lives meaning and allow us to get out and socialise too.

[@carnivoreRon]

@@Kenobi5001 I'm able to help a disabled friend with some things so I have the helping others thing taken care of. We have good conversations. He's now single like me. I'm 70 years old and a younger friend at the gym has gone through a divorce where she cheated on him. I provide an ear and a shoulder to lean on as well as my perspective as an old guy,

[@MrShysterme]

I have two close male friends. Both are married, and I am not. Both of their wives are self-absorbed and do not have female friends. They both attempt to sabotage our friendship and think that middle aged men being close friends is weird. They want all those attention and other resources focused solely on them, their children, and immediate family. Not a fan of female nature as empowered by modern culture that says they can do no wrong and anything naturally male is wrong unless controlled by a female.

[@carnivoreRon]

@@youtubelearning2990 I do crossfit and yoga. As part of the helping aspect, I listened to one of my friends at the gym without being judgemental of him. He needed a shoulder.

[@Keivigan]

@@carnivoreRon IMO BJJ/ fight gyms are better tbf, once you roll around with people you become good friends. Since you literally put each others wellbeing in the hands of the other, it builds bond better.

[@sixfigurediscussions1842]

As Paddy the Baddy said in his post fight interview at UFC London "I'd rather have my mate cry on my shoulder than go to his funeral next week". Speak up gentlemen. We need more awareness to this rising issue. Great work Chris!

[@ibizawavey8630]

Why's there such rigid sexual norms for men and fluid, flexible fleeting sexual norms for women in wasp culture? In Africa and the middle east, men are very close. I remember my father walking around holding hands (yes HOLDING hands) with friends when we first moved to Canada🤣🤣

[@ogolden8315]

@@ibizawavey8630 I made a similar comment.

[@kamrudkd]

Paddy seems like a nice guy. I hope he does not get too cocky like connor mcgregor. If he ever fights islam makahchev he will end paddy's career, as khabib ended connors. I hope he doesn't talk trash about islam makchevs believes and end up like connor. I hope he is respectful like Dustin potier was. Peace

[@hsthatzo8063]

While when a male cries it's seen as a massive taboo to the same people who are oh so virtuous when the time comes. This is why i don't and never will talk to most people. People lie too much, if the TV didn't teach you that in the past 2 years then idk.

[@celuler22]

​@@ibizawavey8630because women shit on men for being close with each other

[@davidr4523]

Great topic. There are many reasons why men have no friends or close friends 1. Men are too busy with work/school, sports, video games, porn, internet, their own family etc. There are just too many ways to allocate your waking hours to. 2. Men are highly judgmental and truly posturing as who is the coolest. Men don't want to associate with men who are not successful or have problems . 3. Men are not good a sharing feelings/problems and have no interest in hearing about other peoples problems. They have no advice to give or even empathy to offer. 4. Too many men are shy and are not willing to approach other men. 5. Most men find other men boring, unfunny and not worth spending time with. You time is much better spent elsewhere. 6. The gaylord concept referred to is real if you are meeting one on one with a friend. 7. Unfortunately your good friends from your youth are never appreciated until later in life since you then realize how difficult/rare it is to meet great people. 8. As men get older they get more sensitive. A snub or a rude comment can immediate end the relationship. 9. The social distancing concept of Covid has gotten people into very bad habits of being alone. 10. Most men are not friendly especially as you get older.

[@yearofthegarden]

I've gone through similar, have lost 4 friends to self deletion, the last one was the worse as I knew he recently got divorced, but I didn't have his number and was focused on my work. By the time I started searching hard for him, I found an article about his death. Even as a kid, I lost three friends due to their parents abandoning them. It was so confusing I now have zero friends, and I have a hard time dating too, because the same reason, I simply don't let people into my life because it's so painful when they go. Even myself, if I weren't raised religious I would not be here. I essentially stopped caring about myself and just garden because it is therapeutic, but now at 35 years old I'm realizing how stunted I am from avoiding socializing, I go weeks without talking to anyone, but fortunately for me I have a business to work on and am used to it. Wouldn't want this experience for anyone else, look after your friends because even their parents don't care sometimes, and they might not have anyone.

[@champ8605]

A bit cliche mate, but just keep trying and you'll eventually find someone who fits you. I'm 36 and getting married soon but spent most of my life without a partner. Best advice is to put yourself out there and give everyone a try, let them in. If it doesn't work out you've got no reason to regret that you didn't try enough. Wish you the best of luck mate. If you aren't happy with yourself, make it so you are someone you would want to be with.

[@yearofthegarden]

@@champ8605 thank you, that's real solid advice, I am so used to one way it's hard to look past it and know there are more opportunities if I show up

[@champ8605]

@@yearofthegarden put yourself out their and actively seek. Sure it's daunting when you inevitably get rejected but it's apart of the process. Whether itd be making friends or trying to find a partner, It's never to late there are many people in the same situation as us. If you have a business befriend clients or suppliers and find interests outside of work you both enjoy. Hope you are able to get out of this rut mate, it won't last long!

[@umiluv]

Dude! Find a good church! Shop around. You need to find a community to be a part of. It helps. I’m introverted too but going once a week feels good. It feels good to be a part of something.

[@kelebeksky]

Why don't you seek professional help? You deserve to have a happy life and I am convinced you can achieve it

[@theBROWNbanditP]

Unfortunately talking about my depression had the exact opposite effect. It isolated me further. People didn't want to talk to me. They really didn't want to know what was going on and I'm sure on some level they felt like they were in danger if they were alone with me. It's not always easy to open up to people, especially when you're supposed to be the rock that other people open up and look up to.

[@garychristopher5480]

So true if you say to people you feel low they run a mile as they are so lonley they dont want to be reminded.if you smile at people these days they think you want somthing and making friends after 30 is impossible men have zero interest in other people unless its a celeb or a girl online they fancy & the worst part is we did this to ourselves we traded our culture our family and friendships for cheap empty entertainment cheap sex and pointless fake digital relationships.

[@theBROWNbanditP]

@@beowulf_of_wall_st 100% agree.

[@theBROWNbanditP]

@@garychristopher5480 Both of you guys know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm 33 and I've gone above and beyond trying to improve my social life, and while I've met many acquaintances and got many numbers, I've not been able to find true "friends" (men or women) after the age of maybe 23-25 except for a few of the guys I work with. Even then though, yeah we like each other, but I don't have kids/family so we don't spend time together outside of work. Being alone/isolated by the unstoppable force of life seems to be the fate of most men.

[@SukottoX]

This is so true, my friends got sick of hearing my problems, probably cause they have problems too. Men are truly meant to deal with problems on their own, it's what makes use men.

[@Bleilock1]

i was searching for this comment the moment i started collapsing, saying that im looking for help, which resulted in me getting diagnosed with high functioning autism, when i started the therapy, most people left me, or straight up wouldnt talk to me if i wanted to talk about such matters, often i get that im perfectly healthy, only just a "bit" down, and that is being worsened by psychologist brainwashing me into believing that i have some sort of made up disorder ("besides you dont look autistic") if you are weak or have problems, people avoid you, because lets be frank here now, people have enough problems in their lives as well, and when they see you like that, they really dont want to be part of it, its similar like letting a person who cant swim drown because they will drag you down with them and kill you as well if you try to help them, and again, lets not lie ourselves, there is a lot of truth to that, so i didnt judge most of people who abandoned me now i carry my own weight, and yea, im rotting bit by bit from the inside, but i am my own "Simon of Cyrene" so materially im at least safe and dont have to worry anymore, which makes loneliness million times easier too, i found out whats wrong with me and im working on it, and im grateful for that, i just dont feel like talking about it anymore, because it only brings ruin from my xp, i genuinely dont remember if talking about my mental issues to anyone besides therapists ever helped me lol

[@Fitzcarraldo92]

Paused this 30 minutes in to reach out to my old mates I haven't spoken to in a while. This conversation is incredibly pertinent especially after the past 2 years. I've been trying to establish my career for several years, COVID set me back and I have been living on the edge of poverty just trying to get the wheels spinning, this resulted in a lot of friends being put on the backburner, bailing on invitations and really only having a handful full of hour to socialize each week which I've been spending with my girlfriend. At my lowest I was gaining weight, drinking and lonely, no guy friends to turn to. Now the career has finally started rolling I'm looking around wondering why I haven't been invited to weddings or other social events. It's time to start watering the garden again.

[@ChrisWillx]

Positive-sum-mindset. This is what I want to hear more of. Yea boi!

[@CedarRose7]

❤️ love this!

[@Fitzcarraldo92]

​@@torachan23I have friends and I'm not destitute, but my strong male ties have weakened over the past several years. I have been working on a business and have only made time to see one or 2 people a week for small stints. In pursuit of this business and dealing with the economic fluxes we've experienced these past 2 years my finances have suffered terribly, in conjunction with a growing depression. A positive feedback loop. I courted my girlfriend the old fashioned way. Her interest and support in me mirrored mine in her. So the short answer is because she makes an excellent partner and me a better man.

[@cherkovision]

Finding groomsmen was absolutely the most emotionally challenging thing I've ever had to do, because like he said, my choices were: A) Guys I hadn't seen in years. B) Guys I knew from work. C) Family. And asking either one was basically having to admit "hey, so uh, I don't really have any actual friends, so..."

[@brianbecker481]

I had this same issue. Got married a few years ago and was struggling for groomsmen without asking people that would be like yoo at just work together

[@CedarRose7]

Makes for a cheaper wedding having less friends 🤷‍♀️ .. on the brightside

[@cherkovision]

@@CedarRose7 Except that all my old friends and work friends and family are happy to attend my wedding as guests - they just feel weird about being groomsmen, since that's something that's usually reserved for particularly close male friends, of which I have none..

[@gwho]

just don't get married.

[@redbluesam]

@@gwho Thank you for being helpful.

[@mentoriii3475]

problem with modern male friends is that once they find a gf and they are serious about that relationship, suddenly they become unavailable and devote all their time to please her, not surprisingly couple of months/year later they message you back because their gf left them and now they don't have any friends

[@CedarRose7]

Thats a shame. In marriage, both husbands and wives should have friendships, keeps things healthy having breathing room away from each other

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

Can confirm.

[@timorbalimore4011]

@@CedarRose7 Completely. Of course the wive shouldnt have a single male friend but yeah they should both keep their real friends

[@DarkAshenfall]

This is 100% true. I do, however, have two friends who made time for me/their other friends, but those two guys were largely exceptions. Most other guys I knew disappeared when they got a girlfriend/married. Its such a strange phenomenon that makes no sense. A controlling woman is probably the cause for some men, but not all of them.

[@timorbalimore4011]

@Lily No not in my culture, & not really in human biology. You would disagree cuz it probably sounds chinese to you what I'm saying here lol. Don't take offense to what I'm saying here but I have found that most people that have friendships of the opposite sex really do believe men and women are equal and have never bothered to learn even the most basic things about male and female nature. Just as an experiment you could call or text on in the middle of the night saying you are horny.. See what happens. Male nature will expose itself real quick ;) Also kids and adults are different things. This isnt primary school anymore.. but do what works for you

[@ogolden8315]

I think the lack of male friendship issue is more exacerbated in Western society. In many non-Western cultures, long-term male friendships is common.

[@danrichards9823]

This is true. It is another Western problem. I wonder why.

[@cjh36]

Its due to the feminist capture and removal of early male interaction through play. Feminists are traitors to society worthy of a traitors punishment.

[@freakinccdevilleiv380]

To the point the term 'bromance' has been coined for something that used to be normal.

[@danrichards9823]

@@Aditya-rg7qb Nah. In India for example men are extremely affectionate with each other. Friends that is.

[@potter5647]

@@danrichards9823 hello

[@SmileyEmoji42]

I think that for women, a problem shared is a problem halved, whereas, for men, it is a problem doubled. It's not that I don't care about my friends problems it's that there is usually nothing that I can do about them and that is stressful because, as a man, if I see a problem, I want to fix it, now.

[@CJ-ft9yo]

if you actively bring your awareness of wanting to fix it, as you are talking to them, focus instead of just completely listening - that’s all.. no advice just listen, encourage them to talk, and completely take your ego out of the equation, and be in the moment. Men are no different to women with wanting to be heard.

[@damianop100]

Another aspect of this situation is that both men and women have come to regard women as more valuable and significant than men. Consequently many people feel worse for the suffering of women than they do for the suffering of men.

[@jabrel3]

Listening to this as I sit here having a beer by myself at a bar. Something that’s become the norm in my life when I do get out. I’m 33 and the last 8-10 years have been the loneliest time of my life.

[@JezaLoki]

Been there. Perhaps it's the culture where I live but striking up a conversation with a random bloke at the bar is a good way to risk your safety. People are so hostile. Women especially except they don't want to fight you, they just want to belittle you.

[@187Wretched]

I’m 31 and yeah I’d say from 24 to now it’s been extremely lonely. This past year has been in complete isolation

[@Ryderman2000]

I'm a third of the way through this video, but something i can't stop thinking is, ive heard and experienced this personally too : when a man consoles a woman, he offers her solutions to her problem. And often, she doesn't want solutions, she just wants to be heard, and to get it off her chest, to be listened to. Men seek solutions to their problems, not just a listening ear. Just an observation

[@anisenkrill6179]

It's not about the nail!😅

[@ibizawavey8630]

​@@biancaverdeschi880 Yep, If I tell you something and you offer no advice, then i assume you don't care or you are not counsel.

[@kenrehill8775]

In any given conversation/negotiation/argument, a man looks for information/solutions/understanding. A woman is only concerned with how she feels……..

[@Nah-ah]

Listening is so underrated these days.

[@aks1993kumar]

That’s garbage. Maybe American men. Men need both - a listening ear and a solutions. All humans do. Stop making men out as mechanical machines.

[@markmedley6849]

Men who continue to play sports, tennis and golf have more friends. Drinking groups at the bar can be included but it’s not healthy. Men typically need a reason to hang with one another whereas women don’t. They are happy just getting together and talking. Loneliness is extremely dangerous and men are suffering. Great topic and thanks for posting.

[@artstocker60]

Interesting observation. I don't socialize that much but have a large family as a support network, so have not felt lonely for years. Male socializing for me revolves mostly working with buddies on projects, which I am always happy to be involved in, (and we do converse as we work). But sitting around drinking or just watching a sporting always bores me too much.

[@DylanJo123]

Join a martial arts gym, gents. Best physical and social decision ive ever made

[@someonesomeone25]

Loneliness stems from two tjings: not having at least one close friend, and not having a sexual partner. No amount of positive family or social interaction can replace those two things. And you need both. Many people live their whole lives without either, and that often comes about because of bad luck: uglinless, disability, neurodiversity, sexuality, isolated location, working anti-social hours, childhood trauma etc. Life is a sad, lonely and hard thing for many people.

[@someonesomeone25]

@@lucadesanctis563 I've been there. I'm 46 and struggle with chronic emotional loneliness. Am working extremely hard to change, make friends and so on. Not easy.

[@someonesomeone25]

@@lucadesanctis563 It's very, very hard, I grant you. But not impossible. Just have to be exceptionally lucky.

[@someonesomeone25]

@@lucadesanctis563 I hope we both get really lucky.

[@someonesomeone25]

@@lucadesanctis563 Maybe. Only one way to find out ... throw everything at it for a couple years and see ... there's always a way out when it gets too bad

[@someonesomeone25]

@@lucadesanctis563 Maybe, lol. I didn't have friends or lovers for 20+ years, but after a huge amount t of effort the past few years I've now ended up with two tulpas, a doll, a couple of nascent human friends, and a human lover. And am still moving forward. Its mostly just luck. I threw my all into it, and got something because of sheer dumb luck. Maybe I'll get even more over the next couple years. If I don't, I'll die like I first planned. Easy.

[@elizabethblackwell6242]

I have a horse rescue. We used the men's shed idea to attract male retirees as a volunteer workforce. Utterly brilliant men doing clever mechanical things. Male only space. We women bring them the morning tea, which they love, and they build fences and repair gates etc. God love the great Aussie bloke.

[@rob_m]

You ladies are fantastic, thank you for supporting your men, we need you more than we are willing to admit. 👍

[@Nah-ah]

Mates in Construction is also a good one too for the tradies and construction workers! 🇦🇺

[@redrustyhill2]

@@rob_m bullshit, she isn't supporting men she is using them for free labor just like most women do.

[@lockandloadlikehell]

Do people ever consider that men can have female friends

[@redrustyhill2]

@@lockandloadlikehell 🤣🤣🤣

[@vegiepire7677]

I lost my best friend to an overdose in 2017, helped him get clean for 2 years. About 4 years before that I literally resuscitated him after flatlining for about 3 mins cold dead. After that he used to tell me he loved me, in a Bromance kind of way. It used to make me feel a bit uncomfortable if I'm being honest. But I knew he meant it in a best friend, save ya life kind of way. He had a really tough life, he had a horrible childhood. abuse etc. Man I would give anything to have him back. I have a few Mates at the moment & I moved to a different city now. But I don't think I will ever find that best mate look out for each other in that kind of way. Please take care out there & be good to your Mates

[@DylanJo123]

A shame we dont fully appreciate what we have til its gone. Im sad you had to go through that and i hope youre doing well

[@Arroway2357]

I have a friend I've known since...well, since I was so young that I don't actually remember meeting him. Our dads were best friends, and so were we. Our lives have vastly diverged and we've gone years without speaking, yet pick right back up when we talk. A month ago he reached out to me via text. We scheduled a call but it didn't work out. I paused this video and texted him, letting him know that I wasn't going to let this slip away for another few years. By God, I'm talking to my friend.

[@seedsman02]

Is it the trustworthiness of each other that has us backing off from each other. We struggle to find a non shallow friend. Someone who has been raised in a highly functional family is hard to find these days. Many many people suffer massive communication problems and are unable to express themselves anywhere near enough. Cheers Chris.

[@shellyb357]

Thank you for sharing this.

[@davidmorrison7323]

Chris, you guys talked about friendships in marriage. My experience, and that of some of my friends, is that when we get married, we rely on wife to plan and before you know it your calendar is filled with time with her friends and not any time for your own. I’ve had to actively challenge this in my relationship but I’ve found that my male friends are not good with a calendar. When I was single, it’s “hey, what are you doing this weekend?” and now I say “how’s two weeks from now?” and they always reply that they have to check and I might not hear from them. We need a class on how to use a non-work calendar 😂

[@samscully3343]

This is so true. And it can be challenging because it’s not that you don’t like your partner’s friendship circle and the plans they make, it’s just that you want to see and make time with your own circle since you worked hard to form it in the first place and find value in it. Like you said about your male mates, mine just don’t operate like my partner does re organisation of time with friends

[@champ8605]

Pretty much the same. However my fiance and her friends actively try and make the effort to catch up. Most of mine won't want to catch up unless it's for a big event. Although a majority of them also have children.

[@tomatom9666]

I think it would be better not to plan, which is why it’s best to have your friends living close to you so you can just walk up to them, that’s how it’s been for millions of years before long distance communication was really possible.

[@ALForb]

helps to have an obligation. a sports team or trivia team or something to show up to. i'm in a band and that's where i get a lot of my male socializing. lining up tasks helps to. i'm going to help a friend chop/split and pile wood in a couple days, and i'll likely ask to return the favour with something or rather. otherwise, i'd never make plans.

[@umiluv]

Just book it on the calendar. You can always reschedule if it doesn’t work that weekend.

[@chrisjackson9626]

This is one of the most important conversations I've heard regarding men's mental health in a very long time. I've had depression & suicidal ideation for 35 years and therapy for about 20, which has helped to a point. However, one of the biggest protective factors I had was being part of a senior baseball team for 12 years. For exactly the reasons that were mentioned, we had a reason to show up, lots of teamwork, plenty of piss-taking & a common goal (to beat the other lot). I described these bunch of idiots as my summer family and never realised how important it was until the situation changed i.e. I moved to New Zealand. Most mental health therapy is based on the lines of what works for women, this is also true in the autistic world (which I'm apart of). This is dominated by women, on KZbin channels, Facebook groups and autism support groups, despite the fact that the ratio of autistics is 4:1 in favour of men. There are many middle aged, cantankerous, autistic blokes out there like myself who have no outlet that make sense to them at all.

[@TonkaJay]

Proverbs 17:17 is very true, "A true friend shows love at all times And is a brother who is born for times of distress."

[@jeffkoe310]

I have major depressive disorder, and I will try to push myself to ignore it. Sometimes it becomes too painful and I’ll have a major melt down. I was in church, and at the end went up to pray and the dam burst. I couldn’t stop sobbing. A friend came over and was talking to me. He was trying to help and understand what was wrong. I told him, and we talked. I was still sobbing. I wanted to get out of the crowd as I was embarrassed. He found an outside back door. He said, “I love you (my name) and I hugged him quickly and could just say thank you. Why couldn’t I say “i love you” back. I really appreciated him coming to help, and should have.

[@U4ia28]

This is at least partially the result of society becoming far too comfortable and brazen with the idea of male disposability. We as men can’t go anywhere without constantly being bludgeoned with the belief that we as men are disposable. Even without friends, a lot of men would be able to stomach the roughness of life far better if we didn’t have to constantly be reminded that we have zero value outside of our ability to provide as a work horse.

[@CHarris1066]

Especially if your a white male. Flattering to be seen as the most dangerous of enemies to the rootless cult.

Finally! Someone who gets it!!!

[@JaCee501]

100%. Men are only useful of they’re providing money or labour. If a man can’t offer either of those, no one gives a shit!

[@madarovidius1775]

but we do have 0 value besides our ability to provide as a work horse

[@U4ia28]

@@madarovidius1775I never said that wasn’t the case. What I am saying is maybe, just MAYBE not bludgeon young boys all the way up to adulthood with the idea that they’re disposable and toxic for being male. Not a good recipe for building up a strong man

[@ajcschmidt]

OUTSTANDING INTERVIEW CHRIS!!! The sexualization of practically All human interaction in Western societies is a Huge part of the problem. The ‘sexual revolution’ promotes intimacy free relationships, full stop. Male friendships are amongst the primary collateral damage. All we need to do is see the LOTR films to know what friendship between men could be, and is. THANK YOU CHRIS!!!

[@teej70]

In my experience, anytime I've tried to develop a friendship with other guys that is a deeper than surface level, I've been told that it feels like a relationship and my sexuality gets questioned. It put me off attempting to have any close friendship with other guys.

[@dhaltonmiller1215]

Why did gay guys do this to us bros?

[@Woarkeswat]

100% agree. I just finished watching LOTR again and frodo and sam at the end always gets me on the verge of tears.

[@garychristopher5480]

@@teej70 i agree its impossible

[@inhocsignovinces7696]

What is LOTR movies ?

[@kylebazyk]

I always hated what seems like the norm where people lose touch with friends as they get older due to whatever reason (more obligations, geographic location, etc). I feel like it's looked at as something that isn't very masculine, but I make an effort to tell my friends how much I love or appreciate them as much as I can. I also work hard to pencil in time to get together, in order to keep cultivating those friendships. Friends and family are some of the best things in life, and I hope to spend as much time with them as I can. Also, keep up the good work Chris! I'm a little late to the game, but I'm quickly becoming a fan of all that you put out.

[@OrderOfMagnitude1]

I agree completely mate. I'm not the best when it comes to cultivating friendships long-term though. I wish I had more people reach out and make that kind of effort as well.

[@ramy8700]

adorably gay

[@Murphator]

You are a rare breed man. We appreciate you 😉

[@dhaltonmiller1215]

@@ramy8700 This is part of the problem. Not everything is sexual you heathen lol

[@dirigodave7801]

Such a great conversation. I’m always telling my wife how hard it is to find close friends at 40 yrs old. Literally every man I’ve met in the last 5 years has no hobbies or rather sit at the bar or in the couch watching sports. I hike and fish and camp a lot…….I’m almost always alone if it isn’t a family trip.

[@JackSmith-un2nw]

Hey homie, if you are into the outdoors and you are active id highly reccomend joining a climbing gym. Its unbelievably easy to meet people and the relationships you form when you start going out on climbing trips is amazing.

[@GreenTekGuru]

Brilliantly insightful chaps. Well done. My 80 year old Dad visits his Men’s Shed in Australia every day. It’s his lifeblood now…

[@jamesbuchanan3888]

In the U.S.A. "manning up" is a legal trap. The more a man fills his traditional role, the more he loses in divorce and family court. ... Consciously or not men view the advice as "man up so she can cash out."

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

Yep. That's why I have no intention of playing that game.

[@user-qb4on2qm7z]

@@DisposableSupervillainHenchman Yup. Until marriage stops being a legal contract, I am not ever getting married.

[@kattodoggo3868]

@@user-qb4on2qm7z what do you mean? Marriage was always legal contract. You share household, money everything now. You can get church marriage if you want to, without signing papers, I think at least

[@punkypagan]

This is so untrue men get custody 75% of the time when they ask for it. You don't own your ex (and this thought process is why loveing women are staying the hell away from you.

[@Richard-Freeman]

Thanks for this. I'll be starting a mens group in my city in a few months. I'll be linking this conversation in the description. It explains perfectly why ive wanted to do this for the last 5 years.

[@anjijack5392]

What a fantastic idea! 👏🏻

[@ibizawavey8630]

What you mean bro? like a men's support group or just a general men's group? I want to start one in my city. Are you thinking through facebook or?

[@Richard-Freeman]

@@ibizawavey8630 Activities like Airsoft, archery, rock climbing, camping, primitive technology, woodworking, etc. The support will happen naturally. Men just need a place with positive males around them. I've run a couple groups in the past. Check my about page.

[@nenyeo6090]

I’m a woman but that’s thoughtful of you

[@tomburroughes9834]

More power to your elbow. I also admire anyone with a Prisoner portrait photo!

[@RyansSynthwaveGuitar]

I've just turned 30 and feel more lonely than ever. My best mate lives in a different city and is about to leave the country for good. I have a few friends at work, but those relationships are not deep ones. Ive tried going to meet up groups, but it's so exhausting meeting new people and sucks trying to force friendship and find the right people to connect with. In terms of dating, I've been on so many dates since my last relationship ended and I can honestly say I'm exhausted going on dates for nothing. Thing is, I think I know what I have to do. I have to join a club or something. Money is a huge issue as well and also time. I'm trying to progress my career doing courses and studies on top of my full time work at the NHS. I'm used to doing things alone and I'm proud of some of the things ive managed to do alone, but sometimes feeling alone with nobody around just feels horrible.

[@karenschulz6733]

I think we all benefit from knowing this is a COMMON human experience. This is NORMAL. It is a puzzle/problem to be solved. Let it be an act of your creativity to operate uniquely in its solution. ? Love and peace ❤

[@mskittle2010]

I really needed to hear this conversation today. I completely relate to your point about feeling enabled to pursue or discuss an intellectual interests - my best male friends are ones that I can go lift weights, grab drinks, go to the gun range, and - more importantly, I can dive deep into intellectual rabbit holes with. That intellectual piece is so incredibly important. If I can't find that, it's difficult to connect. Thanks for this, Chris and Max.

[@umiluv]

I had a New Year’s Resolution a few years ago where if I thought about someone, I texted them just to say hi. I didn’t expect anything out of it. I just wanted to put it out there that I was thinking about them. I think ppl like to know they’re not forgotten. You never know if that message will help someone.

[@orest4874]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who does that. If I don't reach out to someone from my contacts, there will be silence.

[@paulhunter_]

Men, we need eachother. We need other men around us, friendship is vital.

[@bravenkind7843]

There is also a major difference between being lonely and having bad friends or relationships. Many would much rather be lonely.

[@md1trk]

During lockdown we set up a "Wellbeing Wednesday" on Zoom for colleagues to meet online and chat. Nobody turned up. After a few weeks we renamed it "tea and coffee break" and lots of people attended.

[@unnecessaryapostrophe4047]

I don't like psychspeak. When someone uses words like _trauma,_ _normalize,_ and _care,_ I immediately turn off.

[@dhaltonmiller1215]

@@unnecessaryapostrophe4047 Yeah that's the lingo of the cult

[@md1trk]

@@greenblue6935 That's very true. This was at a time when meeting in person wasn't an option and Zoom was the only social outlet available.

[@eltyo340]

@@greenblue6935 I tend to agree. Growing up I loved playing sport so much, but as I got into highschool I realised people stopped caring about sport and more about social interaction. Which sucked for me, but over time I just tried to get better at the social aspect and now at 24 I feel like I can finally talk to most people (still struggle with talking to women because I do it so rarely) pretty easily. And it's actually one of the things I enjoy the most now, just talking to people, hearing what they have to say, their life story, etc etc

[@ronmaest]

A big reason is also about measuring up. If you’ve had a lot of failings or never really tried in life and are economically and emotionally stunted - it can really instill a sense of shame if you reach, say, your forties. Everyone else will be further ahead in achievements and experiences you should have gone through already, and it can leave you with a sense on incompleteness and inferiority that will only push you further within and away from others.

[@areuarealman7269]

Whatever bro I'm a proud loser society can go f itself .burn mf burn .

[@mrnice7570]

Ah there it is, relatable, working on things now at 42 I shld of at 22 , but it's never too late to try and be more or better than you once were, materialism doesn't lead to happiness, just choices and influence which comes with its own negatives

[@Adamanthon]

49:20 “I can have this curiosity and that can inhabit the personality that I am”… can relate to this too much. Thanks for this amazing talk, we should really be talking about these topics concerning male loneliness more.

[@Commander034]

I really strongly related to the part of about not knowing what to say to people at parties and then hearing them actually speak. I never drank alcohol so I never had the "social lubricant" and just thought I didn't like parties until I went to one just to improve my social skills and actually started listening to what people talk about. It is a really big relief to learn that there isn't something wrong with you just the crowd you are in.

[@pattyb6003]

FOR ANYONE STRUGGLING, I HAVE BEEN THERE. I saw a guy post about his situation, he was 35 with social anxiety, didn't have many friends and wasn't happy about it. It looks like he deleted the comment while I was typing, so here's what I wrote for anyone who is interested... ... I used to have such severe social anxiety I could barely talk to my own mum. I'm now about to turn 33. I'm an Aussie guy, used to play rugby, did a bit of MMA, engineer, 110kg pretty lean. Not bragging or anything. I'm generally quite masculine. Now I'm quite confident and don't have a problem making friends. I also have a support network of other men I can talk about stuff with. Probably 6 or 7 men, including my brothers, I could talk about pretty much anything with. Having 3 friends is not bad. But you should probably have a wider support network, so it sounds from what you've said like it's worth improving your skills in this area. And by no means is it too late to do that. Imagine if you had 1 more friend you can count on. Imagine if you had 2 more good friends. Now imagine if you had 1 of your current friends move away. It is definitely worth it to improve your skill in this area and it is absolutely in your reach. It's okay to still feel all sorts of feelings over embarrassing things you've done drinking or on drugs, but just know that it is unfair and corrosive for you or anyone else to hold that over your head forever. If you want to improve this area, and it sounds like you do from the use of the word "resigned" , here are my thoughts about things that might help. First: Reach out and solidify your current friendships. Ask your friends about other friends. Next time you go for a drink, get them to bring their brother, or a work make. Consolidate your current friendships and see if they can lead you to more friends. Secondly. Treat your anxiety. Read books, watch videos and podcasts, and go to a psychologist if you can afford. In my experience the most powerful tool in overcoming anxiety is to know that it's okay to have all sorts of negative feelings, it's when you cannot accept that you have them, when you push them away, you agitate yourself. The best advice I've ever heard for anxiety is this: carry it with you. Sure, reflect on it, anxiety may dissipate, and that's a good skill. But if you cannot learn to live while carrying this weight, you will not live. Simple. As you learn to carry it, something will happen. You will get stronger. And as you get stronger, willingly carrying that weight, seeing success not as an absence of anxiety but living in defiance of it, it will dissipate. It takes time, but first you will get stronger, the pain will be there but you can tolerate it, then one day you'll realise there is less of it. And so on. Final thought: Have intentionality to making 1 or 2 more friends. Dont desperately beg people do be your friend, just develop the habit of deepening and expanding interactions with people around you. Last week you discussed the footy with a workmate or a guy at the bus stop. This week ask them if they have brothers and sisters. See the same person at the gym each week, tell them you saw them going hard on the treadmill and good work. Learn to just constantly probe (not physically please). You will find opportunities to escalate a comment one week to a conversation next week. Over time, you may get to, "Hey, you seem like a decent bloke. We should get a drink one time. I'd like to hear about that blah blah blah." Again, don't be desperate. At any stage they may knock you back. Maybe you say something silly. Doesn't matter. Don't ascribe those situations any importance. That's all I have for now. Sorry if it comes off as pretentious advice giving, but I have been through the ringer and come out strong. Hopefully, you or someone else may find some benefit in it.

[@j.j.5731]

I've been walking alone for awhile now and do so for a reason. Better to be alone than in bad company.

[@cantileveredapotheosis]

I have BEEN talking about it, I have lost so many friends in the past couple years, and the ones I have ... I'm more their friend then they are my friend... I just don't know what to do. I've found new people to chat with, but it's not the same as someone you've known for 10+ years I'm the one who's always reached out, always helped people for years, and now I've been noticing how poorly my mental health is, how dissociated my day-to-day life. I've all but told people I'm going to fucking die of loneliness and this has only pushed away the people who were left. They seem to be un-interested. My one mate that I chat with, has a wife/kids and heavily prioritizes them, and rightly so. But it is ... frustrating. My only relationships right now are disembodied voices on a computer, since I'm entirely WFH now.

[@dalechalfont112]

Thank you for this video. I think daily about how I have no friends. I haven't had a friend in close to 15 years. I'm almost 37. Happily married with 2 kids. I think all the time about how tragic it is that in a few years time it will be a full 20 years since I have gone and done a single thing with another person who I could call a friend outside of my marriage. I have asked people at work casually who seem to share similar interests to do something minor outside of work and it has always been pointless. At this point a friend will be entirely accidental.

[@rosslyntucker7760]

Thanks

[@cng2009]

This was really meaningful for me. I have been feeling this sense of "where are my male friends" for quite some time now. I grew up in TX but moved to Utah when I got remarried in mid 20's and have never really formed deep and lasting male friendships since. Part of it is the culture in Utah is that the Mormon Church is the social structure, so if you are not an active part of that church, it's tough to have any positive and consistent male contact outside of work or sports. Also Utah and Mormons are so focused on family that everyone is doing things with their family or the church or work and that's about it. I have been thinking about joining or starting a men's group locally. Thank you for this powerful and important conversation!

[@WtfReal]

I had a friend of mine during my service in the military take his own life. And another call me 3 years later and contemplate it. Men are hurting

[@Wildatheartoz]

Hurt isn’t gender specific. All humans hurt

[@RizztrainingOrder]

I believe introspection is vital to growth, I used to wonder why I didn’t have many close friends but looking at my past experiences and actions even some current, it is very clear that I did and do it to myself.

[@pootis4986]

I was growing tired of people exploiting men's issues to further deconstruct masculinity. this video was a breathe of fresh air

[@mypillpals]

King of the hill- 3 friends from the same neighborhood meeting outside a fence , shoulder to shoulder , drinking beers often saying nothing to one another other than the usual “Yep” in silence watching people passing by Which somehow was more than enough way to bond at the end of every work day. What I would give to have that in my life…

[@interesting2491]

The ‘shared adventure’ segment was very underrated, thinking about before technology and more vast land…Travelling by foot or horse - in the wild surviving, enjoying life.

[@bwake]

We used to have fraternal organizations. Various lawsuits made them effectively illegal. The lawsuits alleged that the organizations served to perpetuate the old-boys network. That may have been true, but we lost something when they were opened to women.

[@kingkefa7130]

It doesn't need to be an official organization. Nobody bans us from doing things together. The main issue is a lot of guys prefer the comfort of video games, food and entertainment. It's just so disheartening to be in a big group of men in their 20s and not being able to strike up any topic outside of video games or whatever lame TV show is popular at the moment.

[@bellavega8048]

There’s nothing stopping men from forming PRIVATE organizations for themselves, why the excuses?

[@diogenespendergast5958]

I joined a Jiu jitsu gym a year ago and it changed my life. This really helped me understand why.

[@stevefrench7036]

It's a weird thing, I often reached out to friends just to ask how the were doin', not necessarily as a transaction or anything, but as time grew I felt I was wasting my time so I let go, cause I sometimes feel like that weak and needy dude that does that with chicks. Now I only have a handful left that stick around and I feel less lonely cause they're the real ones. Still getting away from all the surface level friendships helps working on yourself and your own '' loneliness ''.

[@redrustyhill2]

I realized that a few years ago and just stopped being the first to get in touch with ANYONE. I soon found out how few friends i really had. Even with siblings and cousins ibgrew up with, Only time i ever hear from them is if they need something.

[@TastySanchez]

As a man I'm absolutely loving this discussion and the honesty around how men and women are different.

[@henryjantzen7448]

What a great conversation! This couldn't have come at a better time, I've been struggling to socialize and make friends for a very long time. I reached out last week to a phycologist that specializes in cognitive therapy for the purpose to help me figure out why I cant form relationships with anyone. The loneliness has become so severe that if I leave my anti depressant I start shutting down and feel it the most on my body and basic health. I never knew being lonely can do this to a persons body. Some of the things you guys said really helps to make sense of a lot of things. I never knew there are so many other guys with the same issues. Thanks this really helps with the process of working on my mental health

[@chikotembo]

go to the gym and lift some weights !

[@mrmadmaxalot]

I'm not really sure how this video got recommended to me, but it was VERY on target. I've been working this issue for a while now, no close friends, difficulty connecting, and so on. I have expressed the idea to my female friend (my only friend outside of work) that for me dinner parties (something her group is really into) don't seem to work well for me, and that instead I think activities done socially seem to fit me better. I honestly thought this was an annoying quirk of my personality, but you guys talking about 'bonding while doing things' hits the nail on the head. It also dawns on me that sharing a meal at the dinner party is a much more intimate 'face to face' dynamic than helping fix a car, for example. This makes a lot of sense also regarding how men and women stand when talking. Lots of other good advice and things to ponder from this talk also. Thanks for this!

[@benisapp155]

Another Quality Production from Chris, great interview and topic. Me myself struggle with this issues.

[@irpky]

I'm in the middle of a divorce and about to turn in the next few months 40 and have been thinking about this so much lately and it has become even worse since working remotely as the majority of my social interactions was with work colleagues that I now don't even get. Thank you for this conversation 👍

[@orest4874]

Thank you for sharing this with everyone. I hope you're in a better situation in your life since posting your comment.

[@devicemangler]

I believe the pillars of male friendships are loyalty, tranquility, and joy. These are things that are usually lacking in everyday life.

[@navp3452]

Chris you are one of the few podcasts that is doing such credible work bringing together a body of knowledge that can actually help. While I really enjoy listening to other podcasts like just pearly things... They always leave me feeling it's just a bunch of opinions being shared there. No stats or research being presented there. Absolutely love your work.

[@SoloRenegade]

"I wish I'd had this conversation before I published the book." Publish a 2nd edition. Nothing better than seeing a theory/idea evolve as new ideas and information are obtained.

[@alexbutlerful]

Since watching this, it's really made me examine the quality of the friendships that I have. I have a couple of friends who I feel I've been outgrowing for some time, and getting together with them over the weekend really confirmed this. I was with two of my good friends since high school, and their conversations consisted of nothing but banter. It was a lot of meaningless talk and inside jokes really. Now I'm not saying I'm above banter, but I just found that I couldn't keep up with them and didn't find the same humor in it. Something from this video really rang true with me as well, where men just aren't having the experiences that result in a bond. I realized that none of these friends and I have ever gone any where besides the confines of the other's home, and we've never been put in a situation of struggle. It's sad, but I also feel like I won't have a best man to call on for my wedding...maybe elopement is the best choice.

[@orest4874]

Thanks for sharing this with everyone! It's good to watch/listen to these kinds of videos once in a while because I believe that it reminds us that we can strive for better.

[@StefanOsfit]

Well its not politically correct to care about men at the moment

[@contrarygirl]

And sadly for all those many people whose barometer is dictated by the pressure points of "politically (in)correct" ideologies/conformity, that matters utmost 😔 Imo, it's gone beyond that now though. I'd say nowadays it's not politically correct to care about people, any people, all people (every people ffs) at all, in this moment. We've been sowing & farming , amongst other things, apathy, avarice and antipathy for decades and generations now, amongst humanity as a whole. This is all just part of the harvest of what has been sown, but we gain no real sustenance from this crop. The famine is here

[@Fillup82]

Andrew Tate cares.

[@zeno2501]

@Lisa Fenwick Everything is a political issue.

[@admiraleveleigh8573]

Never has been. Never will be, Unfortunately.

[@peripheralparadox4218]

When was it?

[@bethanyware2075]

As a wife and therapist I think this will be helpful as I think about men in my life and what is helpful for them. Thanks.

[@emanuelgomez1623]

This is an awesome topic. Much needed.

[@CessGreen208]

55:42 is pretty much the biggest complement you can get as a podcast host I can image. Very compelling conversation!

[@94paul1]

One of the best and deepest video I have ever seen. Listening to this content is the right thing at the right time for me. Thanks from the heart!

[@orbelino13]

When Chris asked what the third wave of manosphere would look like, I think discourse like this podcast is the beginning of that. Open dialogue, no agendas, just two men trying to exchange their ideas in an intelligent and personable manner. I really enjoyed this one

[@whywhenwhere4377]

I think as people get older they get weirder. Not in a nasty way but just more unique. This can make bonding harder as the amount of people we are a good fit with reduces, not increases, with time. I also think most people are less willing to tolerate poor connections as they age.

[@CJ-ft9yo]

absolutely spot on observation - being single too, u feel yourself becoming unique and feel it’s harder to get a real proper connection …

[@kwyatt261]

We definitely get more tired of dealing with the things we perceive as fake bullshit as we age

[@TonkaJay]

I have a best friend that is there to listen when I have dark moments. He will make time if the dark moment looms too heavily. I meet him a few years ago and I didn't realize how much I needed a friend like him. The greatest gift. No amount of money could be offered to me to stop me from being his friend.

[@TheRexTera]

I think the best example of understanding men and depression in pop culture is in one of the last scenes in Shawshank Redemption where the quote “Get busy living or get busy dying” is from. In that scene the director tricks us into feeling worried for Andy Dufresnes (Tim Robbins) character, but the truth is that it’s actually Reds (Morgan Freeman) character that is truly depressed. Andy Dufesne is kind of showing us a Hollywood interpretation of depression while the cold and cynical way Red is in that scene is what depression actually looks like. Just like in real life it’s not obvious most of the time.

[@jonthomas9708]

Thanks for an insightful take

[@velvetthunder8853]

Came across your pod a couple weeks ago. What a perfect topic. Was really disappointed going to uni and finding that even post pandemic, they continued to put our lessons online. Crushed my social energy and motivation.

[@Nah-ah]

We have Men’s Shed and another good one is Mates in Construction here in Australia particularly for our tradies 🇦🇺

[@prakwillem]

I've been obsessed with this theme. Both as a man and as a psychology student I feel a big sense of purpose in creating more connection between men. Seeing my friends (and dad) age and not being proactive in this sense often fills me with angst. You hit on a lot of points ive been trying to adress. Walking the line of vulnerability and autistic traits being amnongst them. Thanks a lot for this guys!

[@Aquamentii]

One of your best episodes yet. Thanks for these!

[@randr302]

I am late to the party,just found Chris with Peter Z. Interview. What happened in the 70's. Women burned their bras & threw men out of whack hearing how they're SUPPOSED to be men.ugh imo women's lib ruined alot of things.(not all BUT)for us girls.you are doing great work Chris!

[@aligenc659]

Bro, actually this is a world problem. People became hyper individualistic.. Most of people aren't interested in talking to each other...

[@timorbalimore4011]

@@sullathehutt7720 This is not true. People are getting less and less and less children. Theres actually too little of us

[@aligenc659]

@@sullathehutt7720 actually No, that's a lie that we are over-populated. However, we have power-hungry politician problem, yes..

[@allwillberevealed777]

@@aligenc659 You people are the problem.

[@peterbelanger4094]

Too busy sucked into doing stuff on their phone, rather than interacting with the people in the same room as them.

[@Adi_Bossanac]

@@aligenc659 Close but actually we have satans, satanists and bunch of actors on TV acting politicians or scientists or whatever. KZbin is like TV now. Sellouts are everywhere.

[@shinbonethelone]

This is fkn bang on! Me and my friends have always played in bands. It's like a group sport or men's shed, working on a project together is so good for mental health. So greatful to have this outlet 🙏

[@blingkid6]

The whole "talk to somebody" shpeel is overplayed. Most men know why they're unhappy if they are -- they're given responsibility with no recognition, validation, or payoff. It just becomes another form of repackaged slavery. The truth is that some degree of love and conference of authority will markedly improve most men's lives -- but they're not allowed to talk about that part.

[@brandi33]

Well said.

[@Error-fourOfour]

@@thereisnosanctuary6184 No need to imagine...

[@redlionesv]

Bingo

[@Fillup82]

@Lisa Fenwick you sound like you need somebody to talk to.

[@randomnameindeed]

@Lisa Fenwick It seems like the comment section on these videos are therapy for you. You’re here all the time! 😂

[@lukepokrajac1057]

Wonderful video! I am blessed with many really tight male friendships and a few that are close as brothers. They had my back when I was down and depressed. In my mind it's very important to put yourself out there to your buddies and listen more than talk. Everyone is vulnerable at one time or another. Nothing better than having a buddy tell you they love you and reciprocating the sentiment.

[@burtbakerack1110]

Yeah. 43 year old man here. I have zero friends now, good network in my teens and twenties.

[@oldskoolordie]

Friendships are transactional and if people think you are low status then they don't want to know. That's why after school it's extremely difficult to make long term friends. If you think your pub mates and football mates are real friends then think again. The best solution i found was not needing validation from others but with social media it's really difficult not to feel inadequate. The goggins mindset isn't toxic it's just the truth. You need to get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable. Then if something really bad comes along you can deal with it. Rather than asking some drinking buddy to help. They don't care.

[@anthonydowney6069]

Spot on there for sure. There are some situations (for some people)where it's self protection and survival to adopt the approach you have outlined.

[@Mike-jv8bv]

Stay hard

[@Fitopoli]

I think our friendships shrink because our wives demand more of our time and effort to support the house and family. Then one day you realise you're isolated, alone and not important. If/ when your marriage finishes you're then vilified as being the bad one. I can see why that tips men into darkness.

[@emily4514]

Isolation by your spouse is abuse - not normal behavior of a wife/woman. I'm sorry if your spouse is isolating you and I highly recommend getting out of that relationship and/or discussing this with a therapist.

[@blissfull_ignorance8454]

Great content and very important, rarely spoken topic here! As a gay man I feel that many straight guys crave for deeper level friendship with other men, but as it may seem "gay" and lessening your quality as a masculine dude, they very often just ignore that longing for deeper level friendship with their fellow buddies. I have few straight male friends, and they have few times mentioned that it feels great to have me as a friend, because they dont have to act up with me and they can talk about the stuff they probably would never talk with their fellow straight male buddies.

[@CosmeDC]

Thank you very much for your work. These talks really bring value to our own thinking.

[@potter5647]

Hi ✋✋✋✋✋

[@sunriseWorld-007]

The GOLD at 1:00 is an amazing insight and one I have thought of for several years now!

[@neanderthalsnavel7411]

I haven't hung out with a friend for 28 years. When I have time, I spend it with my wife and kids. Also - when I was in grade school, I was an acolyte for funerals (to get out of class). We had funerals with just the deceased, priest, and some funeral home director every few months. This was 40 years ago. It happened A LOT.

[@potter5647]

Hi ✋

[@nagillim7915]

One day the kids are going to be gone and it'll just be you and the wife. And what will you do then while she spends time with the girl friends she never let go of and you're all on your own? I have had so many friends who drifted away because of their relationships, work and kids, and though i don't begrudge them making that choice i can honestly say i no longer feel any connection to most of them. Friendship is a hormonal response just like any other social bond and needs time spent together to maintain the bond. Otherwise it's just memories, and human memories aren't permanent.

[@potter5647]

@@nagillim7915 bro your story really resonated with me, let's talk, do you have discord skype or telegram?

[@MicahBratt]

We need to have more conversations where we really talk heart to heart. This is one way that we can build more lasting relationships. You talk about stuff that goes beyond us. I think authenticity and not putting on a front goes along way too. And that’s part of the problem perhaps - that social media has created a fear of looking less than perfect, like we’re always fine and dandy. And then after people try to build connections and it falls apart again, they just end up conserving energy as is the body’s natural response. At the hint of cracks in the foundation we would rather not spend the energy to fix it and instead just let it gradually fall apart. Also like someone else mentioned the benefits of having bonding experiences together is super important. You build lasting friends when you both go through a hard experience together and bond through the mutual pain. I have faith we'll figure this out and everyone will be better because of it.

[@hansgerman3437]

It might be a far shot. But is this why small teams in the military work so well? I noticed this too, when I was still in the German army. In the german army our squads are 4 man teams within the platoon. And those squads where -really- tight. Sure you'd get along with the platoon aswell, but the connection wasn't as deep.

[@peter_schomus]

45:00 that is so me. Some people are so hard to connect with and good friends bring an interesting side out of you.

[@theperfectbeing]

Chris you should look up the studies relating to psychiatry methods for men vs women based on body language and eye contact during the exchanges. There's been a number of studies that measured the amount of time it took for the therapist to get men to talk about their serious issues openly and one of the largest factors was how they were having the men sit when discussing the issues. The men there were put out of direct eye contact were far more likely to discuss the more serious issues than those seated directly across from the therapist or the amount of time it took on average was substantially lower. Definitely rooted in some innate behavioral que associated with male dominance and exchanges

[@thewayofway1]

This was great! Glad I watched. As a 24 yr old man, I gained so much insight and a fresh perspective about what real friendships are.

[@simoncameron4355]

I have known this for a while, typically when men get into relationships, women start chopping away.... through emotional manipulation... they will say things like why not stay with me tonight, I need you, if you are smart enough to see through that, they will start to use a "justified anger" to get you to go out less and less. I am in an 8 year relationship currently, and my thought is "let her get mad, hell let her leave" I know I am in a unique position, but it is men's fault for not putting their foot down. Go out with your buddies on a Friday night... have a poker night with your mates... spend AT LEAST one if not 2 nights away from your significant other, if they shame you or get angry with you, think back to all the times she went out without you. Ask yourself if it is right that she has the right to get angry when you try to do the things you want to do.

[@bri_____]

I can’t even remember what friendship feels like

[@mechminded2207]

I grew up with a close family, joined a very social sport as an early teen - casual brutality was something every relationship had, and was appreciated. More recently, with work taking up most of life - I've lost a lot of mates. I do think social media, the death of the pub, change in employment patterns (fewer industrial high staff volume jobs) have all contributed negatively. 'Social media' encourages passive friendships.