Are Incels A Threat To Society? - William Costello

[@ChrisWillx]

Hello beautiful people. I really enjoyed this one. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:24 Intentionally Childless Women 10:04 Are There Female Incels? 16:18 Is Hypergamy in Decline? 28:43 Leonardo DiCaprio’s Girlfriends 35:25 The Power to Charm a Female 43:14 Common Traits of Incels 59:20 How Incels Become ‘Fakecels’ 1:08:27 The Impact of Social Media on Incels 1:17:59 Consequences of the Mating Crisis 1:25:10 Where to Find William

[@MsQ275]

great show...& I had to listen to it twice to get it all. the first time, my feelings got in the way.

[@Gringosaurus]

Thanks for the table of contents it really helps when i’m short on time.

[@Vikii2024]

Men are not STRUGGLING with women ......... MEN DONT NEED WOMEN ANYMORE .

[@eddie-ni5ox]

yes, they are a threat, lets put them in camps and put guards around them, the thing about camps no one can go out, but no one can go in either, so when society falls around them, they will still get food housing and protection mandated /paid by the government, doesnt sound so bad now. They will get swimming pool, cafeteria, music programs, advanced classes and entertainment, sounds great to me. Sounds exactly like another camp but i cant quite put my finger on it. The only thing they wont need are nurseries to save on costs ofcourse

[@keylanoslokj1806]

The bar to entry today is so high and hard for men, that the juice isn't even worth the squeeze. I've quit on women completely. Nothing, Natha. Not even "friendships" aka orbiting like a vulture around them. I gain nothing from the interaction with them, and it would be utterly irrational if i persisted to pretend i could one day integrate in their society not to mention get in their pants.

[@shiftyjedi3417]

“Women now have choices. They can be married, not married, have a job, not have a job, be married with children, unmarried with children. Men have the same choice we've always had: work, or prison.” - Tim Allen

[@BetaBuxDelux]

Haha

[@brainiac.computer]

Goddamn. Tim a straight prophet!

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

Lol yes. Get rich or die trying

[@lizabear7014]

Men can choose just like women can. Men can get married or not get married, men can choose to have children or not have children. Unless you have a nice trust fund everyone has to work.

[@limoncr5205]

@@lizabear7014 how can they choose to have children?

[@austinjrb]

What makes being an incel so sinister is how the identity lingers and follows you. Even if you become objectively attractive and desirable, there is just so much genuine psychological trauma and damage to unravel before you're morally allowed to enjoy the opportunities in front of you (moral because it's a deep-rooted sense that it's WRONG for you to be wanted when you're an incel). That feeling is unimaginably oppressive. I read a poem that said something along the lines of "once you've been abandoned on the outskirts, a part of you will always be out there long after you've been invited in". The only thing harder than being an incel is unbecoming one. That's a layer of the issue few people acknowledge.

[@StefanKostka137]

Thank you

[@TH-il8mn]

Yes, I suspect it is a type of imposter syndrome. What if one reversed it? What if you could realize you always belonged and something was simply amiss before? Perhaps the place or timing was wrong? You were always wonderful when you were nice and now that you have grown and flourished, people have grown to realize you always were a gift.

[@JaimeWarlock]

About a decade ago, I figured everything out. I know the fastest way to find an attractive partner and can easily do it in a day. I have girls chasing me now. My wife is madly in love with me and will do anything I ask. Yet, previous decades of being alone makes me hypervigilant towards any new information on the topic. I am always looking for ways to improve my skills in an area where I surpass 99.9% of the population now.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Spoken as a true, experienced incel. I agree. You will always be the guy that was marginalised, demonised, and lost all the "normal socialisation and sexual stages of development" throughout the first decades of your life. Imagine telling a woman in your 30s that asks tell me about your past relationships on a date, and you just remain silent.

[@steveharmon6440]

Oh you poor sad story sods. Time to grow up.

[@tonybuck1225]

Our society is very lonely and lacking in community activities, therefore insanely obsessed with sex; and with self. Much sexual frustration is loneliness (or a sense of failure) in disguise.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Correct. Its a hedonistic and individualist society with no common values. No communal activities. No rites of passage. Nothing to give men a purpose

[@eunicebediako4986]

💯💯💯

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

This is what happens when the Christian moral code breaks down. Monogamy is shamed, loose and amoral women come to the fore again

[@mrpseudos]

I agree

[@tonybuck1225]

@@brianmeen2158 There was massive loneliness before computer screens. And you certainly aren't going to make friends by going outside.

[@eziop5539]

I've read through a lot of comments here, and a recurring theme is a lot of people who don't understand this, seem to be boiling it down to men not getting sex. Yes that might be a small part of it (sex means you're being physically accepted), but I am very confident to say that the majority of men in this situation actually would like to experience companionship, loyalty and feeling accepted by a woman. So just telling these men to go pay for prostitution is really missing the point. On top of that, you would be paying for a physical act, and ultimately, it is kind of hollow and fake. Of course some men are happy with this, and I completely understand. But in general these men are lonely and want to be loved and desired, just like any person does (female or male). Reducing it down to sex is really confusing the discussion. Men want to be loved and appreciated, and feel like someone has their back. (And by extension, they don't want to be cheated on, abused, misled, deceived or exploited) And I'm fairly sure these sort of expectations are common to both genders, not just women - who seem to be safer at expressing these sort of facets of what they want from a relationship as opposed to a guy that expresses wanting to feel desired and accepted, which is becoming less socially acceptable to say. As for the topic of incel itself, the issue is multi-faceted and a tapestry of different elements. Society, and by extension, women, seem to want men to "just get it", with regard to knowing intergender dynamics, flirting, behaving around women, knowing what they want, and knowing what THEY RESPOND to. If you don't "get it" as a guy, there's a higher likelihood that you will fall through the gaps of society with regard to sexual maturity/development. They become sexually maladjusted. Their sexual/emotional development stops and remains naive and immature. Then you discover online porn, only fans etc, which absolutely doesn't help, but initially it does, initially it's a salve for the absence of physical intimacy. At best that stuff should be complementary to a healthy sex life, at worst, it becomes a substitute. Then throw in all the cultural shifts, like modern feminism which just attempts to erode thousands of years of natural biomechanics - for women that is career first, family later. Single mothers being praised (but that son she is raising doesn't have a father role in his life, and is immediately flawed when trying to integrate into society). The sexual revolution. Dating apps/sites which removes the granular and natural act of meeting someone in person that was the norm 50+ years ago. Mobile phones which allow instant access to all the online stuff I just mentioned anywhere at anytime, which also includes a predatory effect of exploiting women's subconscious desire for always trying to find the best value of things in life (and they can easily window shop for the best thing on their phones, whether it's clothes, or men). The attack on the nuclear family and traditional gender roles. It's a massive mess. There's more, or rather more nuance, but that's enough for now as a 44 yr old male virgin. (And no I'm not violent or misogynistic. Just defeated and dejected. Like a lot of guys, part of this is that I've been sold a false bill of goods at a young age about women via films, literature, tv, etc. And it's a very big eye opening moment when you get a better understanding of what women want, and what they respond to, and how they obfuscate these things, and never admitting to these things in open discourse unless they're anonymous) Someone said somewhere about incel men probably being a bit autistic. As harsh as it sounds, I don't necessarily think this is wrong. A lot of this is about reading social cues. Of course, no one gives a flying fuck about autistic men in society. This is a good article to read if you TRULY want to understand the nuance of sexless men. slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/

[@Vladimyrful]

Holy shit dude. This comment should be pinned. By far the best comment I've read here.

[@tornielsen2888]

This is likely the most relevant thing said about this subject.

[@mitsuro3815]

Thanks for the link and for your point of view. I'm also virgin 28 yo man. People telling me that I'm physically attractive enough and with good manners but I'm single from 19 yo now. And when I had 2 gfs I was still not capable to ask for sex or I didn't know how to do the first step because I don't wanna be too pushy. I respect women a lot...

[@shamekabenjamin8010]

Thoughtful comment… a rarity on KZbin.. the most inane comments receive the most likes as always

[@forcesoundtrack6899]

Had to respond, one of the best comment I've seen on the subject, this is all absolutely true. I'm exactly in this situation. The loneliness, wanting to be appreciated, respected, and accepted by women... I'm not even talking about love. Just wanting to be 'seen' by the opposite sex, not being invisible. This is a very primitive desire. Desiring from the people we are attracted to the same amount of interest we have for them. I think that's something that ALL humans deeply need, and the majority of women don't even realize it, because they KNOW they are wanted and desired by men, they know they are not invisible to men, they see men going toward them everyday. And if a woman somehow not yet aware of that, she will once she downloads any dating app. Most men do NOT have this by default. I believe this is the root of the suffering of a lot of men.

[@dariusthurman8835]

Loneliness is an experience not an ideology.

[@darkenedvision4709]

and what is ideology?

[@yohaizilber]

Man really said: “The online world is not the real world, you need to get offline and into the real world and the way to do that is therapy, online therapy” 😂

[@eomoran]

If you can’t get out into the real world, online therapy is a great way to get over the agoraphobia initially

[@seemlesslies]

@@eomoran online therapy is (mostly) trash. Talk therapy for men is mostly trash as well.

[@MsQ275]

@@seemlesslies are you saying you don't find the ultra woke field of therapy by feminists unhelpful?? then you're a bigot (this is all very sarcastic btw)

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

@@seemlesslies took me a long time to find a therapist worth a damn for me. I am very aggressive with my desires I’m therapy and if the therapist “is to kind” with their assessments I don’t go back. That’s not what I want, I want results

[@seemlesslies]

@@DadsCigaretteRun I gave up on therapy about two years ago. After constantly being let down by these people that are literally fake friends and for all intents and purposes emotional prostitutes. After doing extensive research into psychology and psychotherapy and the dodo verdict. I quickly came to realize it was all just a lie sold for profit by (most of them). It's always funny to see how they react to the dodo verdict evidence. Almost ALL of them almost instantaneously get enraged when you tell them research shows that training, education, experience, and method have NO corolation factor to positive outcomes in therapy. Experience actually has a NEGATIVE corolation factor. The only thing that has a positive correlation factor is trust and the belief of whatever it is you're doing by both parties is positive (within reason).

[@honeysimon838]

I’ve sort of decided to stop trying with women and just focus on myself. Being raised in a broken home sort of distorted my perception of reality around relationships. I’m just going to focus on myself. Thanks Chris 🙏

[@MsQ275]

I hope you make it to the other side ❤️🙏

[@honeysimon838]

@@MsQ275 Thanks 🙏

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

Don’t be a quitter but focusing on yourself (if you are doing it right) can open opportunities

[@kompanjonac]

Same situation here. I grew up in a home where my parents fight all the time. And its not normal, little arguments that most people have. So i'm kind of disqusted by the idea of being with someone bcz I think I will probably end up like them.

[@honeysimon838]

@@sullathehutt7720 Guy doesn’t understand how rigged against men it actually is. He thinks it’s the same as it was in the 1950’s-1970’s. LIES. It’s much much worse for men.

[@YellowKing1986]

The society is a threat to society.

[@seemlesslies]

You do realize some of the people that have committed some of the worst crimes in recent years. IE mass shooters are (mostly) incels by category if not by affiliation.

[@MsQ275]

#fact

[@ErikQuintanillaMusic66]

Anarchocapitalism ftw

[@CrummyVCR]

@@ErikQuintanillaMusic66 *fist bump

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

@_____ 🤮

[@tonybuck1225]

Our Western societies are divided between people who would like to be kind, but are too burdened to be so. And people who could well afford to be kind, but can't be bothered.

[@sovereignbrehon]

BOOM!

[@user-oi6ec8ge4c]

Something I rarely ever see brought up about this subject is how often these kinds of men suffered abuse as children, in the worst ways possible that no kid should ever go through. This makes a boy grow up feeling emasculated, weak and scared. If they grow up short/ socially awkward/ scrawny/ ugly etc it adds to that feeling. Especially if you’re small, the disadvantages other than rejections from women are getting beaten up by bigger kids, rejected from sports, less respect from peers, and professional problems as they grow older. It is virtually impossible to avoid the fact that all of this will impact a boy negatively and largely shape his future as a man for the worse. If you try to overcompensate for physical drawbacks, you get the dreaded Napoleon complex label. Me and many of these men have a mental paralysis and fear of both women and sex/ intimacy. These types of men often bash themselves and look up examples and justifications for their insecurities to further confirm why women are scary and we should stay away to avoid pain. It is genuinely very terrifying to me and I’m not alone in this. There’s not enough discussion about this, if any.

[@michamazur2179]

Perfectly stated my genesis why I became an incel. But sadly, men health problems will never matter.

[@ligafftheindifferent3495]

Most incels were always outcasts. Boys who have some kind of shortcoming in their physical parameters are especially prone to this. Same goes for autism. People grossly underestimate the damage that these kinds of experiences have. They fail to see how such boys become deeply fearful of social interaction and that fear is far greater with women because they already know they will be rejected and rejection as a sexual being is far more painful than simply rejection.

[@nomadsland8322]

I was even physically gifted and got encouraged in sports, I was just both socially awkward and emotionally sensitive, which made it worse because in hindsight it just made me feel like a tool and not a person (getting emotional in sports is a big no no even as a kid, consequences for being emotional was quickly internalized by me), and because it was from an early age it got ingrained into my personality to an extent- I was the person who is just supposed to do what I’m told and not much else. And now I’m the stone cold, unemotional doormat and detest it every second. Can’t take compliments because it makes it all feel even worse, but that’s also my fault for being emotionally unavailable, I guess.

[@michamazur2179]

@Steven Smith I didn't know that a book cures years of social exclusion, ugliness and lack of experience. Nice to note it.

[@michamazur2179]

@@brianmeen2158 i was going to the psychiatrist and cured my anxiety. I don't interact socially since I don't want to be back with it once again. Either way the solution is simple, coping as long as I can and then rope. There is no possibility of leaving state of social isolation at 23.

[@michaela2706]

"The Rich get Richer" now applies to dating

[@nocturnaljoe9543]

It always did.

[@Romie15]

I loved this episode! Please have him back on in the future! Thank you!

[@Xollob2]

Comments like "why many incels would rather bond over failure than over trying to improve", perfectly embody why no one is dating and men dont bother with dating, we are sick and tired of being blamed for other peoples inadequacies and being told its all our fault.

[@VaronPlateando]

that is ridiculous. the issue in 'failure' here is reception by the counters (i.e. out of span of control). any 'improvement' would play into latters' agenda, and squeezing that juice has been found, and reported, unworthy of abundantly now.

[@KFrost-fx7dt]

Wait, no one wants to fuck you. How is that because of their inadequacies?

[@janterri3539]

Why don't they just improve where they feasibly can and stop giving a damn what anyone else thinks. Easier said than done but if you know what you have to do then get after it. Nobody's obligated to feel sorry for "incels" so they shouldn't go looking for sympathy and instead look inward instead of outward.

[@pastexpiry2013B]

100% TRUE. ALL videos like this give women a free pass. They DO have sky high expectations. At the same time men are constantly told, "It's your fault, you need ot improve." I have yet to see a single video, ANYWHERE, where WOMEN are told to improve.

[@TheMattTrakker]

@@janterri3539 I think part of the problem with what you say is that we do see this huge outpouring of sympathy and really, what should be, illegal hiring practices, for women currently, when they are already doing better than men in many ways. It's definitely not helping men in the grand scheme of things (which I think is actually the reason it's being pushed).

[@Dylan-ko2gj]

I've worked on myself to the point where I could get a girlfriend if I really wanted to (I'm 25, got in great shape, fixed my finances, have my own apartment in a nice area, etc), but now that I can have it, I don't want it. I observe a lot of my friends relationships and it seems like girls are more annoying than anything. Maybe I also harbor some resentment because they didn't want me before, but I genuinely don't feel any hatred towards women. I kind of just like my chill life where I can do as I please, I enjoy my workouts, hobbies, friends, etc. Maybe it's just a phase or maybe I just haven't found the right girl yet, but all I know is I'm chilling right now and I'm happy

[@HolyRainbowism]

Yep, you’ve been redpilled, my friend. 🤝 Congratulations. Welcome to a life of peace, abundance, freedom and stoicism. 👍

[@prettyboyjeremy]

While relationships might be a cope Having someone you can rely on and they can on you is deeply fulfilling and at many points in life/ history extremely important People who are willing to do favors for each other survive longer and stronger than those completely on thier own

[@garethmorgan3665]

Having a proper relationship is one of the biggest challenges but also one of the most rewarding and transformstive experiences I've had. It's taught me a lot about myself that I could easily gave avoided. You can have as many projects and hobbies as you like, you're still just running away from something.

[@JK-mh5lt]

Careful, that's exactly where I was when I fell into a relationship -> marriage... nothing attracts women more than you living a life you love

[@HolyRainbowism]

@@garethmorgan3665 Or running towards something else, maybe something better.

[@CaulkMongler]

I don’t see it as incels becoming threats, I see it as a symptom of a culture shift that we aren’t ready for nor would we like where it may head. We are simply too short sighted to see everything this could bring.

[@eddie-ni5ox]

Many books from 1850 to 1930 tells you exactly whats in store, try Next Million Years

[@YellowKing1986]

Its not the we are not ready for it, it is a cultural sickness, decay, decadence, degeneracy.

[@Vladimyrful]

If enough men feel like there's no point in contributing to society (which is a growing and real possibility) you'd witness some ghastly shit.

[@bigneiltoo]

@@Vladimyrful Exactly. Men are inspired to get up to work every day by their erection and prospect of getting laid. Once the cost of women gets too high (if not impossibly high) men just choose porn and unemployment. Those women will pay in a big way for their shameless standards as they share Chads with 7 other women on average, and have 2 abortions each.

[@eddie-ni5ox]

@@Vladimyrful That wont ever happen, those men are long gone, WW1 & 2 made sure of it, those genetics are wiped out in totality. Its only the docile that are now left. All they need is something akin to food, water and a 6ftx6ft square to be sated. Men didnt know the transactionality of the world(men/women), we were truly stupid, but now that we do, its out there and undeniable, we recoil in stomach churning disgust.

[@mebtor]

The whole incel phenomenon makes me think of a quote from Michel Houellebecq's novel "The Possibility of an Island": "Show men endless images of beautiful models and actresses and singers, show them endless images of beautiful, slim women engaging in sex with enthusiasm, tell them that a world of uncommitted and marriageless sex is the norm - then, for reasons they don’t understand, slam the door in their face.This is not a prescription for long term stability."

[@humansubspecies]

What's changed? Demographics. We had what you describe in the 1970s and '80s too. What we didn't have back then was predatory Afro-ethnic males competing with low status white males for sex with lower status white females.

[@MrDanno2]

@@humansubspecies There's a lot more than just that going on.

[@humansubspecies]

@@MrDanno2 Yes, of course. Another thing affecting y'all young male prospects for sex with white females is no wars. In the 1970s, 80s, we young males benefited hugely from the post Vietnam War. 56,000 males were taken out of the sexual maketplace. Those of us who were left, had our pickings of the females. Say you were a moderately high status male, as I was in the 1980s. I dated perfect 10s, frequently. Whereas in the current environment, I'd have to downgrade to 6s and even 4s and 5s. Life sucks for y'all young males today. You're getting smacked from every side. All I can say is I'm glad I was in the sexual marketplace in the 1980s and not today.

[@nackedgrils9302]

Houellebecq is such a proto-incel and I guess I must be one now because he's the only fiction writer I'm able to read because I can't relate to anything else. Each and every one of his books brings me closer to suicide though, ''Sérotonine'' was a really tough read.

[@AdelTheForsaken]

@@humansubspecies I've noticed that too. But sadly as a black woman who wants nothing to do with the males of my community it benefited me for Becky to want tyrone. Freed up a brad for me! But with all due respect, these are the lesser of your women who seek tyrone. The middle of my community have no power and control no resources. Who wants that? You have to be mental to accept a lesser man.

[@KSSGHD]

I always find it interesting how different Chris is with guests who are from the UK and Ireland. He seems a lot more relaxed, more so a chat with a coffee or pint rather than a super clean and professional chat (I enjoy both!)

[@scottbarnett3566]

I think there is an inherent warmth British guests embody along with a shared sense of humour

[@simdhaliwal4260]

@@scottbarnett3566yes. Everyone feels warmer with British guests.

[@Jack-ns9sz]

Maybe I'm weird but there's definitely "bad pizza" when it comes to women. I'd say at least 50% of women I would not want to have sex with at all and would prefer to go without. I've tried having sex with a woman I wasn't attracted to and I pretty much was unable to get it up.

[@limoncr5205]

@@Winterascent rancid, vomited, digested, re-digested etc several times... and like for real food you sense when it's not fresh at all and it's been in several trash bins.

[@pattibase2293]

The ladies have been saying this forever.

[@sup9542]

I used dating apps for a couple weeks before realizing how toxic they were, but in that time I probably swiped left (or right? Whichever the rejection is) on 95% of the women. If it was just easy sex with zero work I might have lowered that to 80%. And that's with age filters, so this is of the women in the most attractive age group. So yeah, women aren't all a bunch of models. Lots of dyed hair, tattoos, hidden fat rolls, hidden kids, and airbrushed faces.

[@scifirealism5943]

@Lisa Fenwick how am I a volcel? My standards are 0.

[@nurtaytulegenov7431]

Well, you are not an incel in that case. Not that you've identified as one, but still this is a major difference. You have sexual expirience with women, so your smv is certainly nonzero and you can have options. Also, there's a stigma that relationships are some kind of holy grail which fixes live, as well as there's stigma against males that if you have no sexual value you are worse than trash. All this stuff combined alone skew perception of incels that any pizza is better than no pizza

[@dr.labrat-x3z]

What most incels have in common is crushing loneliness. - That is their primary problem.

[@xiaco8309]

Single guy here, 33. Far from an incel and make decent money (72/year) but he’s right about buying a house as a single person. Without student loans (I’m not bitching about them and saying the government should pay them), it’d be a lot easier but it’s definitely not easy to afford a house on a single income. You can do it but you’re not gonna end up being able to save much, if any for retirement. I’ll admit, in my 20’s, I didn’t know what I wanted to do and was lost. I wasn’t ready to date and wouldn’t have blamed a woman at all for not wanting to date me. But now that I have my shit together, it’s difficult to find a woman who has morals and goals who isn’t bitter against most men. I’m a nurse so work with a lot of women and the single one’s either have a high body count and are immature or married with kids. The term “incel” takes a dig at men specifically but there are equally “incel-esque” women out there. There are good people and there are bad people from both men and women. There are also amazing men and amazing women. It comes down to the person more so than just the sex.

[@TheMattTrakker]

Paying into your mortgage vs. paying rent is a way of saving for your retirement, but I agree with the rest of what you said, I have found this to be the case as well. Most women by this age are single for a reason and quite a few of them already have kid(s) from previous relationships.

[@leedunkin3338]

"Men are going to run through girls", this is a devastating truth. As a single celibate man who is finally being window-shopped by women in the dating market, I know I will have the capacity to go through 10, 20, 100 women to satisfy my regressive insticts. if I adopt and appropriate this lifestyle, I am hurting men and women by making the problem worse. My boys: No matter who you are or where you are in life, the goal is to commit to ONE. That doesn't mean "trying out" a few first either. Don't make this problem worse for your fellow man by jading women by stealing sex from them. Every guy gets one sex partner for life; this is the ridiculously high moral standard we have to keep in order for our society to not collapse. The fact that we have this opportunity at all is a gift.

[@johnlian5509]

Women won't commit to ONE so why should any man it shouldn't work only one way

[@stephtimms1776]

Bravo! You and men like you are rare gems and true kings! "He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls." ~ Proverbs 25:28

[@LustyLichKing]

Genghis Khan disagreed, and he formed the largest contiguous land empire in history. How much land have you conquered? The purpose of life is to suffer, then grow from the suffering, then take pleasure from the growth. That pleasure includes setting up the infrastructure for a network of booty call babes. The way of life you suggest is the axiomatic opposite of what evolution has decreed to be our lifestyle. The best of us win, and winner takes all. The rest of us suffer until we either grow to exceed our competitors, or die. There is no shame in death along the path to greater life, only in failing to try. Marrying one woman is not success. Society would not collapse as long as you have established avenues for upward mobility through the hierarchy; give the new blood hope and keep the old guard from growing complacent. One day you will understand. Man cannot escape his bestial nature, nor should he try. It's a force that should be harnessed, however ugly it may appear, rather than be suppressed. Evolution and gods alike would have it no other way.

[@leedunkin3338]

@@brianmeen2158 I understand the problems of valuing lifelong monogamy in a STRANGELY WEIRD culture but the fact is we are making things worse for everyone by expecting sex from women simply for dating them when that is not how women are wired. If you want to take the problem seriously, then take women seriously by taking sex seriously and try to abastain until there's real commitment involved (i.e. marriage so it's a bitch to bale out of just when thigns get hard). People think Religion made these rules. It didn't. Natural evolution did.

[@LustyLichKing]

@@leedunkin3338 Marriage is very easy to get out of today. The legal structure is not the same is it was 60 years ago, old timer. Moreover, in the modern era, if you refuse to sleep with a girl who wants you to, she will refuse a follow up date. It's a sign of disrespect today, not a positive affirmation of your noble, pure intentions.

[@captainbeastazoid7084]

This guest was great. Well-spoken and clear-minded.

[@filipinoblackpill6194]

Hes incel.

[@humansubspecies]

I wish he addressed the issue of race more. He seemed to skim right over it. Maybe it's such an explosive issue he doesn't want to touch it. Non-whites who can't get sex from white women are not incels

[@Maybe-cg2tn]

He's one of the best speakers I've heard on this. He's able to speak in a very unbiased attitude. He seems to understand quite a bit.

[@Jack-ns9sz]

Does anyone have a link to the study that showed 5% of women would have a relationship with a man who works part time or not at all? I've got a lot of feminist friends who harp on about how men should start becoming stay at home dads, with the women being the primary breadwinner and I'd love to have some evidence to dispute how much women actually want this.

[@JadesFitnessBucketList]

hey Jack im only n of 1 but i can vouch my partner was stay at home and sometimes worked part time and i worked full time.

[@Jack-ns9sz]

​@@JadesFitnessBucketList That's interesting. Do you think that's true of your friends too, that they would date a stay at home dad? I don't have any opinion on whether or not men should be stay at home fathers. Either way, I just don't think most women want a man who earns significantly less than she does.

[@jasonjon]

Multiple women have tried to make me a stay at home dad. It’s a trap for her to be in control. It doesn’t work since gals have no leadership skills.

[@JAKEBrakeModel94]

The feminists will say that but won’t actually live that out themselves

[@JadesFitnessBucketList]

@@Jack-ns9sz Hey Jack im not sure, i can only speak for myself and share that it has worked for me. people are multi faceted, I was physically attracted to my partner, hes very intelligent yet kind and super interesting as a person. as long as i felt we shared the burdens of life as a unit together eg being financially stable and having child care etc it doesnt matter who spends less time at work or more time at home etc. Thats why he and i actively campaign for workplaces to allow more flexibility so a person can choose to work from home, work more or less or spend more or less time at home regardless if they are a man or a woman. everyone should have a right to choose whats best for them and convey that to a partner if they get into a relationship

[@HolyRainbowism]

Chris, when are you going to have at least a couple of incels on your channel, and hear about what is like to be an incel directly from incels? More and more people are talking about incels, and because of the general and popular preconceived idea that it’s all bad and grim about these people, they are being demonised, mocked and stigmatised. Then there are individuals who are ‘experts in the matter’, they get invited to speak for, against or about the incels of the world like they have some sort of authority of representation. I’m 47 yers old and i have been an incel all these 47 years, do you think anybody is interested in my opinion, my lifelong experience as an incel? The answer is no. Why? Because i don’t have some Phd diploma on the wall, but mainly because i’m just a useless and pathetic incel, what could Chris Williamson or anyone else learn from someone like me, i ain’t got a fancy diploma of being an incel.

[@j.d.s.1837]

Based wizardcel. Absolute mad respect for you and for getting that diploma, while Stacies and Beckies were getting their spines rearranged in community college.

[@nackedgrils9302]

Lived experience doesn't make you an expert. I'd much rather hear a neuroscientist talk about addiction than some junkie or alcoholic. If you really think that you have some insights, then share them online and people will react accordingly but all I'm seeing here is a grown-ass man victimizing himself and bringing nothing of substance to this discussion.

[@j.d.s.1837]

@@nackedgrils9302 Interesting how normies insist on science when it is convenient, but disregard it at any given point in time when it comes to dating, where they only ever brag about their own experience.

[@HolyRainbowism]

@@nackedgrils9302 I never said i was an expert, i ain’t got a phd diploma in incelibacy, i only have, according to you, a worthless lifelong experience of it. I don’t know who you are but i wonder if you have such low evaluation of your own life experience (whichever that might be), or the lifelong experience of other people, or this graceless evaluation only applies to me, a grown-ass man who, again according to you, has nothing of substance to offer, apparently. Not sure how you found self victimisation in my comment when i hardly even introduced myself, let alone giving hints of it. I live a good life, a debt free life, i have everything i need and so much more than that, yet you were so quick with projections and assumptions. All you know about me is my age and the fact that i’ve been an incel all these years, that’s all, yet you were lightning quick to mock me, discredit and dismiss me. Not very mature of you. Is this how you relate to people in general? I hope not. Maybe it would be worth for you to take a step back, take a minute and analyse your attitude here and your line of thinking, because your rushed judgment and preconceived (common) idea of me is unhealthy and unfair. If i wanted to know what is like up on the moon, i’d much rather speak to at least one of the twelve people men that actually been there, than listen to experts such as Lawrence Krauss, Brian Cox, Neil deGrasse Tyson, etc. But again, according to you, their moon experience is worthless and everything they would have to say is of no substance. And yet, they’ve only been on the moon for just a few days in total and not for 47 years. Maybe they have a phd diploma in moonwalking, i guess that would also make them experts. After coming back to earth, the whole world wanted to hear about their very brief moon experience, even more so the experts. ‘A man will never learn that which he already thinks he knows.’ Plato

[@dragorn3212]

Why would he need to do that? incels are not rare at all, they are now 30% of dating age males. Everytime you go to the grocery store you pass by probably 10 incels. They're everywhere

[@jeromerowley5166]

As a gay man that is a fan of Chris' podcasts, I used to listen to most of his interviews EXCEPT for those that dealt with dating, because they were all about heterosexual relationships, and what advice did I need there? Well, I realized I was skipping more and more of his podcasts because they were about that general topic, and so I decided to go and see what all the fuss was, like with today's podcast on Incels. I realize now that the general topic is about evolutionary biology and psychology, and that applies to everybody. I've learned a lot about my own motivations and what makes me tick at an unconscious level where nature rules more than nurture. Knowing my weaknesses is the first step in shoring them up...

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

As a gay man do you think you have the same biological ticks you think as men do for women? I’ve asked some friends about this too and it’s interesting

[@enoeht]

These conversations are incredibly educational and enlightening, even though I'm also not attracted to women. I've learned so much from these interviews.

[@ooooooooppps]

Good on you man! More people should behave like this.

[@Hans_Peterson]

@@fiveleavesleft6521 there are a lot of people on the far left that really hate evolutionary psychology and often write it off as raciest/sexiest pseudoscience. Working within the confines of human nature tends to put a damper on a lot of far left utopian ideals. Framing everything in the world as purely social and cultural constructs gives the illusion of far left goals, like getting rid of gender and capitalism, as being achievable.

[@beephex1]

that's interesting! I would like to hear more *mature* armchair philosophy on the psychology of gay sexuality. If you know of any good channels, please let me know. thanks

[@tomtom21194]

In the olden days, inability to find a wife, seeing lords or other high status men with harems, would lead to lots of unrest in the society, bloodshed and violence. For generations men have been taught from being young that any violence is wrong so now that hopelessness, grief and anger is mostly focused on themselves. I think the violent incels are the outliers. Self castigation and suicide is much more common

[@sarahrobertson634]

It only takes one incel to shoot up an elementary school.

[@andrews902]

are you implying that men should take women by force? Even if i kill the leader of a harem then what if the women don't want to be with me, should i keep them in chains?

[@tomtom21194]

@@andrews902 obviously not. I was pointing out that due to societal change and changes to the education of boys the outward expression of discontent is channelled differently from mobs on the street to suicide. Lonely men are way more likely to see a flaw in themselves and suicide than they are to get violent with others

[@samwhither9457]

@@loganblackwood2922 honestly at this point it is all pointless tbh. It's all about genetics, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Women have every right to choose the best for them. I don't even hate women. Most incles don't hate women, they hate (rightfully) themselves and the guys getting all the attention. In the end we all die so who cares....some win in this life and others lose and that is life i'm afraid

[@ligafftheindifferent3495]

@@andrews902 But if you were able to kill the leader, you would become FAR more attractive to many women. This solves your paradox.

[@tankthepitbull520]

I would like to see Chris have an incel on the podcast and have a deep conversation.

[@jaredmello]

Perhaps not an incel but TFM would be an interesting discussion

[@nurtaytulegenov7431]

@Nemesistyx I think it's dead end, because even incels have constant arguments who is true and who's not

[@helpme7272]

@@jaredmello I second that

[@edenbreckhouse]

I'd like to see Chris have Thinking Ape on the podcast

[@filipinoblackpill6194]

Incel is super unattractive dude. Like this guest hes unattractive, i will not be surprised if hes incel

[@drakoan]

I would say the situation that creates incels is a threat to society.

[@pastexpiry2013B]

Now, now.... can't say that. Goes against the soicietyal/feminist mantra of it's a men's fault.

[@mikemccarthy6719]

Going off of all the criteria I would have put myself in that category a couple of years ago. The thing I think got me out of it (and it's a constant battle to pull myself out) is to one focus on the things that I can control and to two take some time and energy and direct it towards someone else's happiness even if it means going against my own a lot or a little.

[@TH-il8mn]

Kindness is no failing. It is one of the most attractive qualities in a man. Carry on, sir.

[@paulfroelich1024]

Getting out of your head by doing for others is a pretty sick move. Nice job

[@mileshalpern9320]

Good job Mike, keep up the good work. I am probably a lot older than many on this tread and I like to see men going for it, whatever it is.

[@youcantbeatk7006]

If you have too little within your control, you will never be happy no matter what you do because your circumstances are unnaturally bent against you. Like I am forced to live with abusive parents that are emotionally abusive as an adult but were physically abusive as a child, as well as them preventing me from going to school, stealing my money, preventing me from having friends, and doing other things to take away my opportunities to ever leave them. Due to the economy, I can never move out within the foreseeable future. It never began.

[@MinuteBracelet]

Dating older women IS a “strategy” for many guys (ngl I am kind of in this bracket) but the reality is that older women dont actually like younger guys on average and that makes it hard. At best it expands your dating pool a little bit but it is unlikely to find an older woman who will tolerate you long term as a younger guy.

[@kira111a4]

well, the issue is older women know that younger men don't commit them and will be there just for s*x/experience. Older women aren't attractive psychologically, especially to incels and conservative men. Having an older woman is like an unfair situation because now he doesn't care about love and s*x and cares about your status, wage etc.

[@kiedranFan2035]

The younger guy can out perform the older one easy. I've had married women come onto me just because I was around more often then their husband's and I was stronger, faster, fitter even though I never was exercising and these women were only around because they were my grandparents caregivers. Makes no sense actually to want a soon to be dead old guy as the best option

[@Khalikhalzit]

I've been in LTRs with two women who were 15 years older, and at least in those cases, it's not worth it. They had more time to accumulate depressing lifestyles, were fat and without the energy to do anything about, generally expected me to do all the work in bed, and had to deal with the constant irritation of going through menopause. Even though I had low self-esteem and considered myself lucky to be with any woman, one of them had concerns I would finally be a normal guy and pursue younger hotter women. I didn't because I'm a sadsack who won't approach women, but a lot of guys do that.

[@dragorn3212]

TBH women's standards have increased so far that even that doesn't work. For men out there who think at the very least they can get s3x with an older women think again. You will be rejected for the same reasons that women your own age are rejecting you. The cutoff is still quite high and if you don't make it which 30-35% don't your sht out of luck

[@happyhoochie]

Not true.. older men are usually looking for a caretaker.. lots of older women prefer younger.

[@verasmith4767]

The world changed in the 70's . Some women like me had opportunities and we took them. I became a Union Electrician. Women changed and a lot of men didn't. We didn't have to get married and depend on a man.

[@scifirealism5943]

Beautiful to hear.

[@chelsea7755]

My partner and I have been together since 15, married at 32 and neither of us have ever wanted children. I have mental health issues and physical health issues that make me hesitant to contribute to the gene pool 😅. Also for my own sanity... I'm focusing on creating healthy habits and fighting against my health issues. Children is just not appealing for me to add into my life. However.... I 100% wish girls would stop being told to be a "boss bitch", I hate it. I hate feeling like I'm worthless if I can't keep up with those women, or that I'm less than when I love to take care of my husband. He works hard and deserves to be taken care of... In all ways... 🤣😅. But he also equally takes care of me and supporting me throughout my issues. I miss the nuclear family 😒.

[@eddie-ni5ox]

The nuclear family was always transitory, its a FAKE, to begin with, there is no such thing, its always been extended family or single powerless slave.

[@eddie-ni5ox]

what is the actual medical definition of mental illness, once you dig in you will be surprised, like all the modern words thrown around dont mean what they are supposed to; trauma is something that you got in trench warfare during WW1, PTSD is something you get in war due to long periods of fight/flight and doing or seeing horrific bloody things. By extended/ long periods i mean months of it, not 3 minutes.

[@humansubspecies]

That's a very Darwinian attitude. I applaud you for taking that stand. I wish more people would consider the demographics of mating.

[@chelsea7755]

@@eddie-ni5ox I'm not sure if I'm entirely understanding of your points. Firstly, are you attempting to say only war veterans can suffer from PTSD? Because if so, I suffer from complex PTSD. It is generally a "re-wiring" of your brain when it experiences similar trauma multiple times. During my university days, we learnt about the complexity of mental illness and the fact that people can have a reaction (resulting in PTSD) from a secand hand story being told to them. So I'm sorry, but if you are saying veterans are the only sufferers you are highly ignorant to the research and literature refuting exactly what I think you've proposed.

[@joebriggs5781]

That’s great you found something that works…but I don’t think there’s one “right” way. There are also plenty of miserable people with tradition relationship dynamics as well as happy ones, and the same for dynamics seen as “unconventional”. I don’t at all that it’s the fault of women…but it is tougher for men to find either one that works while women have an easier time finding what adheres to their preferences.

[@juliaallen8201]

Loved having children in my early twenties. Poor and happy on my husbands one income. Did a degree and had a career in my thirties when the 4 of them were at school. Now I adore my grandchildren and have a life full of joy.

[@ADUAquascaping]

@scary hellhole thanks for the laugh 😂👹

[@GodsCosmicBollock]

@scary hellhole I think you might just be coward.

[@minliminli502]

@scary hellhole when did u become antinatalist?

[@minliminli502]

@scary hellhole it doesn`t matter, so why wouldn`t you tell me

[@januarysson5633]

@scary hellhole Spotted the troll. 🧌

[@greensmurf221]

On the dog aspect - I think it's certainly a foot in the door as far as conversation starters go. I generally keep to myself in public, but with my Siberian with me, everyone and their brother comes up to meet my dog and talk to me. It was a bit awkward at first, but over time, I've come to enjoy the small talk.

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

Getting a dog is how to learned to talk to strangers. Works wonders if you let it

[@greensmurf221]

@treeghettox That is a good point - I don't use my dog as a prop, I love the critter, just so happens that it comes with a bit of an aura about it. The key is to just get yourself out there. If one is setting themselves up with the notion that it'll get them girls/laid, then they're missing the mark IMO. It's like a muscle, gotta start with the bar before you can start curling plates.

[@grannyannie2948]

In the 70s when I was a little girl, my single uncle's used to take me to daytime university events, like sporting matches. They later confessed I'd been a great chick magnet. I do remember lots of pretty girls fussing over me.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

@@DadsCigaretteRun attaboy! 😁💪🏻👍🏻

[@grannyannie2948]

@@thereisnosanctuary6184 That's part of the problem. Young women are kept away from young children, and viewing men in a parenting role, and instead told children are undesirable and men are incapable.

[@ligafftheindifferent3495]

In the introduction to this video, there is the following quote: "learn...why many incels would rather bond over failure than over trying to improve," This is totally fucked up. It presupposes that incels need to improve. It never considers the idea that women are FAR too selective. It never bothers to come to the simple conclusion that the average man is already good enough for the average woman. It is ENTIRELY up to women to come to this understanding. It fails to realize that hypergamy is relative and the defect lies in the basic idea of hypergamy, which is to pursue the top 5-20% of men while ignoring the rest. Hypergamy will ALWAYS exclude vast numbers of women. Hypergamy is the root problem, period. As for dating older....I was open to that. It did not work. Frankly, I think few if any incels would actually find partners by dating older. Older women tend to simply be more selective, not less. Part of the problem here is that women prefer somewhat older men. They might want a night of fun with a younger man, but ONLY if he is the kind of man lots of women want.

[@JaZmine147]

Women need to be selective because they are responsible for a child. If we need to lift YOU up because you can't bring anything to the table AND raise a child... guess what. We won't choose you. So yes. Incels need to improve to get a woman.

[@jrconway3]

Men should work on themselves, though, and not assume other people are just screwed up. Yes they might be screwed up, but still work on yourself anyway. Be the best man you possibly can be. That should be the standard regardless of how screwed up modern women are. Frankly, I think its wrong to suggest anyone doesn't have a need to improve. That's only possible if you're perfect and nobody is. Constantly working on improving yourself is the best thing anyone can do with their lives. I also agree that said person may be fine enough and the women have insanely high standards. That doesn't negate the goal of focusing on improving oneself regardless, and if the women you meet don't appreciate that, then walk away.

[@ligafftheindifferent3495]

@@jrconway3 Of course we all need to improve.... But once that becomes a precondition for dating, there is a really big problem since the vast majority of people are, well....average, and therefore suitable mates for other average people As for walking away.... I did.... well, sort of. To be more precise, I flew away. After spending a relatively short time in the Philippines I confirmed my basic premise, that men are already more than good enough and that the dating mess is a direct result of the child stage known as hypergamy. Here in the West, I was below average, had damn few dates and no bedroom fun for a very long time. In the Philippines, it was easy to get dates and bedroom fun was usually on the menu.

[@redditor7548]

All the blame is put onto men. The gaslighting of “just improve bro” is unreal. There is nothing wrong with improving oneself but it’s no guarantee that you will succeed. The checklist is very big these days. I myself am 6ft, fit and decent face but I recently started balding and that balding is enough to disqualify me from the modern dating market

[@kaletovhangar]

Yeah, people always assume that Incel=Morbidly obese, autistic neckbeard living in his single mother's basement with poor hygiene and diet.They can't fathom that they can also be average Joe or even good looking guys.

[@MohamedAhmed-ms9eu]

Most of the conversations around incels are about how dangerious they are to society. It is never about the problems and pain they are feeling. This isn't unique to incels. All men get treated this way. If you suffer and slit your wrist in the corner quitely no one cares about you. Only when you start hurting others that people want to know about how your hurting now.

[@hollywhite3034]

Women feel this way also we just are intelligent enough to get help. Go to a doctor, it's not rocket science.

[@hollywhite3034]

@@teaadvice4996 so?

[@MohamedAhmed-ms9eu]

@@hollywhite3034 It doesn't matter how women feel that is not how society treats women so stop pretending to understand men's problems. intelligent enough?! haha For every £1 spent on men's women's health receives £8 - the life expectancy between men and women is 8 years. So no, women aren't more intelligent than men and go to doctor but rather society spends 8x more money on women's health than men's health. You're using old stereotypes about men trying to spin the blame back onto men.

[@dragorn3212]

Incels are not dangerous. The guys that are actually dangerous scumbags like the gang bangers, drug smugglers, etc are FAR from being incels. If that doesn't show you right there that women aren't sht then idk what would

[@dragorn3212]

@@hollywhite3034 You mean go drop 150$ an hour on something not proven to help? Yeah sorry but as men we don't get spouses paying for everything. We have to rely on parents if at all. and for every 150$ less of available money we have we lower our dating options. So clearly you made that comment in pure godawful ignorance and have zero understanding of this issue, in the same way a fish will never understand the struggle of a fisherman

[@Zarih67]

Would it be better to have children you don't really want? 😮 I, together with many many more, chose not to have kids. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[@youcantbeatk7006]

Natalism is dumb.

[@elvinrichard5882]

Involuntary celibacy is still in line with social norms, the bigger concern will be the rise of voluntary celibacy. When/if men lose interest in sex, society will be close to collapse.

[@user-oi6ec8ge4c]

Something I rarely ever see brought up about this subject is how often these kinds of men suffered abuse as children, in the worst ways possible that no kid should ever go through. This makes a boy grow up feeling emasculated, weak and scared. If they grow up short/ socially awkward/ scrawny/ ugly etc it adds to that feeling. Especially if you’re small, the disadvantages other than rejections from women are getting beaten up by bigger kids, rejected from sports, less respect from peers, and professional problems as they grow older. It is virtually impossible to avoid the fact that all of this will impact a boy negatively and largely shape his future as a man for the worse. If you try to overcompensate for physical drawbacks, you get the dreaded Napoleon complex label. Me and many of these men have a mental paralysis and fear of both women and sex/ intimacy. These types of men often bash themselves and look up examples and justifications for their insecurities to further confirm why women are scary and we should stay away to avoid pain. It is genuinely very terrifying to me and I’m not alone in this. There’s not enough discussion about this, if any.

[@mrconfusion87]

OR the frustration is so severe they lash out in other ways (like join radical/revolutionary movements that seek to destroy the status quo by any means necessary)! Either way, having an excess surplus of sexually frustrated men is BAD for social and political stability!

[@Kirby5413]

The fundamental reason why we have a rise in intentionally childless women is because we've repeatedly lied to women over the last 30 years with the following talking points. Number 1. being that their career is most important. 2. They should focus mainly on their career. 3. 30 is the new 20. 4. Their 20s are their fun years. 5. Children are a burden financially and mentally. 6. Their 30s are the best time to have children, if at all and 7. They should be allowed to be promiscuous and go crazy. This mindset has allowed 30 to become the norm for women to have children. All of these lies have in part led to the rise of Incels as well as the coming Fertility Crisis worldwide.

[@SC-sn3xs]

Or it could be that time and time again men have proven to women that they are not reliable. So women decided to get the degree, become single mothers or not and depend on our own selves. Men are the leaders of this world "supposedly". By default men should be leading by example. When you cannot depend on the leader of your household you learn to depend on yourself. We are simply not putting up with men's bs by choice.

[@Kirby5413]

@@SC-sn3xs Yup! Blame the men for the reason why you women doing what you're doing. Not Hollywood, the Mainstream Media and Social Media constantly manipulating your minds i.e. being the shepherds guiding the sheep over the cliff. Connect the dots. Plenty of men have been weakened for this same reason as well. Playing videogames, watching porn, eating junk food, etc. Still, many men are on self-improvement, myself included and not doing that crap anymore and are looking for good women to get married and have children with, but too many of the women want to just have fun in their 20s and not settle down and have children until they're over 30 years old. So with that being said, what's stopping you women from seeking out the good men, even those who are average looking, but have all of their other stuff in order and marring and having kids with them while you're in your 20s? What are you holding out for? Because there's a finite time you have and the men will continue to seek out the young women who will want to get married and have kids young.

[@SC-sn3xs]

@@Kirby5413 good I'm glad you're improving yourself, more men should do just that and I'm here for it! 👏👏 And that's cute, your little tactic of trying to gaslight me into believing my time is running out has zero affect on me. Genz and millennial women are collectively choosing to not have children. As a result the population of young people has been on a drastic decline because simply put, most men are not worth having children for. 🤷🏽‍♀️ 20 years from now when us genz and millennial hit this marvelous "wall" y'all speak of, the generation of "younger women" will be slim pickings because we are not producing new "18 year old girls" for you older men to "seek out". By then 18-20 something's won't even look your way because the famous brick wall has come for y'all too! 😱😱 But keep believing your delusion that you will be forever young and be able to attract hot 18 year olds at 40/50. We are simply not producing them for y'all and y'all mad that we no longer desire the fallacy of marriage and burden of bearing children only to be left to raise them by ourselves with little to no help from father, continuously cheated on and abandoned like most men collectively choose to do, but of course red pill will have you believe this too is women's faults. 🤣🤣 Lastly, we make it a point to nourish our existing relationships with family, friends, coworkers and pets to ensure a fulfilling life and not actually die alone like y'all LOVE to gaslight us into believing. Women are more often then not surrounded by their loved ones during their final stage on earth and also taken care of because women spend our entire livelihoods taking care of each other. Also a friendly reminder that it is women who collectively have always taken care of children, dying parents, elderly, sick and dying men while men hardly ever take care of themselves, their kids nor their dying parents. But y'all aren't ready for that conversation. Anywho, goodluck with your search in finding young women, might I suggest buying a passport? 🤭🤭

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Your list is truth, not lies.

[@sovereignbrehon]

Are you intentionally parroting Peterson point by point? We are having less children because it's way too risky in too many ways right now. The monogamous, nuclear family is the absolute LEAST efficient and effective way to raise our young. Two idiots in a house raising kids by themselves. Riiiiight. Sure, that's how we've always done it. Eye rolls

[@mkam9193]

Again, my only complaint is that the video should be longer! Always good content

[@humansubspecies]

They didn't address the issue of race. Came real close a couple times. But then quickly skimmed over it. Probably too hot an issue for the Irish professor dude to address. Ireland is super woke and sensitive about racial issues.

[@forcesoundtrack6899]

The loneliness, wanting to be appreciated, respected, and accepted by women... I'm not even talking about love. Just wanting to be 'seen' by the opposite sex, not being invisible. This is a very primitive desire. Desiring from the people we are attracted to the same amount of interest we have for them. I think that's something that ALL humans deeply need, and the majority of women don't even realize it, because they KNOW they are wanted and desired by men, they know they are not invisible to men, they see men going toward them everyday. And if a woman somehow not yet aware of that, she will once she downloads any dating app. Most men do NOT have this by default. I believe this is the root of the suffering of a lot of men.

[@jaspermartin7444]

Bruh, if this wasn't about sex then you could get your needs met by being "appreciated, respected, and accepted" by other men.

[@Ghostrider-ul7xn]

@@jaspermartin7444 he literally said by the opposite sex, to the ones we are attracted to.

[@bighands69]

Older women do not want young men. I know this is a shocker for young men who are being taught that they are some sort of trophy for older women. There are not that many single older women around and the few that are out there have their own individual reasons for it happen. Some women like some men are not confident and lack the ability to be out in the world meeting people. Modern society has fueled a new type of behavior that feeds into that lack of confident where people live their lives through algorithms that are their only contact with the outside world.

[@toddjohnson271]

They only understand after they lose their fertility and are alone.

[@KFrost-fx7dt]

Being seen by the opposite sex is not dangerous for men. It is for women. I wish men would understand that instead of thinking their lives are so much harder than ours.

[@JohnMarshall-NI]

What about voluntarily celibate men? Most women that show an interest in me show so many red flags within hours of meeting them, that I don't just walk away, I run...I have also never been into aggressively pursuing women. If they are interested, cool. If not, cool.

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

Doesn’t that mean you don’t have sex? I don’t understand

[@JohnMarshall-NI]

@@DadsCigaretteRun haha, no...It means that I am happy to wait for a woman that isn't emotionally and/or mentally unstable to come along before I put my penis into them or become emotionally or physically involved with them. I value my mental health, and respect myself enough to not get involved with the wrong women. Unfortunately, dating in the modern world is a minefield, for men and women. A real lack of emotional awareness in the general population.

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

@@realistic_delinquent I was genuinely curious because my understanding of celibacy was you choice not to engage in sex (catholic priests as an example)

[@edenbreckhouse]

Volcel - a man who could have sex with women if he wanted to but realises it's just not worth the hassle.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

@@DadsCigaretteRun The catholic priests might not engage in sex with women, but they sexually abuse the choir boys

[@nikeisagreekgoddess4135]

There are people out there arguing in favor singlehood, not against men or women. Just a few years ago almost every man in these circles was talking about returning to some point in history as a way of "restoring" relationships. I think I am seeing less of that as time passes. I do not have a problem with women wanting to stay single. If their hypergamy puts them in that position, go for it. I know there are a lot of men who don't feel lonely or sad about being single, they're just concerned there's something wrong with them. That is the problem, not being single. I do have a problem with William's idea of making egg freezing a new societal norm every woman should have access to. The more I listen to men in these spaces, the more I notice the gynocentrism so many MRAs were talking about over 10 years ago. It is absurd to accommodate the world to this degree just to maximize female comfort. This is not longer a matter of social justice, it is a shameless removal of all selection pressures exclusively from women while creating EVEN MORE of those pressures for men. I don't understand how a guy that studies human nature to this degree would say such thing. Maybe he was just pandering to women in that podcast with Ash.

[@chriscaldow1644]

Maybe we are having difficulty, but perhaps many of us are recognising that there really is a shortage of datable pleasant women, and men are reacting accordingly. Deciding, instead to live the solitary life, rather than settle for a unsatisfactory relationship. There are so many unhealthy, mentally unstable, unattractive and ideologically corrupted women out there. It's just not worth the headache most of the time. Why risk your financial stability and mental state? Why is it, that when women are single, they are celebrated as independent and empowered. While men, on the other hand who are single, are regarded as pathetic losers? It's an absolute joke ....

[@okaySam]

To be fair, men and women alike are sometimes seen as losers for being single. I think the attitude many women have towards men is just generational trauma passed on from the previous generation. Just like a woman making the next man pay for the sins of the previous lover. I can't be bothered to deal with it sometimes. There are exceptions out there, but it's very rare...

[@anatitan5546]

I recommend when coming to Northern Nevada the men to wear casual clothing for the high desert,long denim bootleg denim,boots,and long sleeve button up shirt.

[@okaySam]

@@brianmeen2158 It's not taboo, but being the eternal single person makes u look deficient after a certain age. Family is def a perk long term.

[@kekethetoad]

Amen brother

[@humansubspecies]

It's simple demographics. But nobody here wants to address the elephant in the room for fear of being labeled a raaaaaaacist. You now have Afro-ethnic males in the sexual marketplace pressuring white females for sex, and if they refuse, the white female is accused of racism in social media. How is a low status white male supposed to compete with that? 30 to 40 years ago, they didn't have that problem to contend with.

[@dragorn3212]

incels are not the threat. The threat is what created those incels and its the same thing that will prevent people from being able to have families and live within means. so yes will can have all their current fun at men's expense but eventually there will be no society left to support that.

[@QoraxAudio]

Laissez-faire economy is what created most of the present day problems, including this one.

[@deesnyder3878]

No. Narcissism is the new jam.

[@TimBitts649]

How we got here, via Evolution, history and Religion: It's about the effects of technology on humans. Jordan Peterson once said, "I'm not sure our culture will survive the invention of the birth control pill." I thought that was a pretty profound observation. From an evolutionary point of view, the basis of all sex is up, to the female. Religious people were early intuiting this. That's the biological deal biblically described in Genesis 3:16. It is a biological contract, an evolutionary contract, encoded in religion. Men had their role in a primitive society, women had theirs. Trouble is, technology and female choice upended that basic evolutionary deal. The basic deal was, women give men sex and children. Men protect and provide. Once adequate technology was invented, it eventually gave women more economic freedom. I think marriage evolved within religion in order to restrain female sexuality, by encoding it in religion. The reason female sexuality was the thing that needed containing by religion, was obvious biology that Bible writers intuited: men want sex more often than women, so there is a permanent sex shortage, sex is more or less and it's controlled by women. Sex with no birth control technology meant a huge biological burden on women. And from the male point of view, women who cheat impose an unsustainable biological burden on the cucked man. So sexual restraint was ingrained in our religions and culture. However, in sex it's always women that have the choice. Not men. Men always got less than they wanted. Recent computer data on singles dating confirms the evolution we are living with: about 80% of females are pursuing the top 10% of men. Hypergamy is wired into humans. Religion constrained that. Now it's out of the box. Turns out: most men want most women, but most women don't want most men. And the men women want least are the incels. It was recently discovered that 25% of married men are in sexless marriage. This means most Incels are actually married. We need a new biological deal. Women and technology change makes the old deal irrelevant. We need to be realistic about this. So the point I'm making is it's not men who threw out the old biological contract between the sexes. It's women. They now have no interest in sexual fidelity as a social norm, the birth rate has crashed in advanced countries, the number of sex partners has increased, women are increasingly spending their 20s going from bed to bed, avoiding pregnancy, giving men no children and using up their youth, for their own pleasure. The weakness of unrestrained sex as a cultural norm: women evolved to have children while women are in their 20s. Nature gave women a short biological window where they are high value. It's related to fertility. Paul Joseph Watson has a video on it. Called No More Eggs. Smart women take advantage of that biological window to bond with men, make families. This imprints on the men, a strong attachment to his family. If women fail to do so at a fairly young age, her choice diminishes her chances of a good life. Because: Men have far less need to stick around, the fewer the offspring, the higher the general sexual availability of modern life. Also: Because: female sexual market value is heavily restrained by time itself. It declines very rapidly, past age 30. That's a feature of biology, of nature itself. It's not a feature of sexism. If a woman has: A very few sexual partners, then a woman gets married, she's quite likely to have a successful long marriage. If she has 5+ lovers, she is very likely to fail to pair bond successfully with a man, very likely to have an unhappy marriage that ends in divorce. That's what the data says. These facts are just showing us that nature has patterns we must live with. Or else our lives fail. You don't even need to be religious to know how this works. Religion merely intuitively figured it out, long before science did. Women do themselves no favors, by behaving badly. Neither do men. But women, more so. Professor Sam Vaknin has the data on that in his video Where Have all the Wo/Men gone? He'd make a great interview for this channel. Lots of research, knowledge. Why it's important to figure out, women are actually in the driver's seat, when it comes to sex: The easiest way to figure out who controls sex and how much they control sex is asking an obvious question: Is rape bad? Yes. All civilized people, men and women both agree very strongly. It's very bad. But why, exactly? Lots of reasons, but the extent to which everyone agrees it's bad, is the extent to which sex is controlled much more, by females. It's biology. Same in all mammals. Females are the ones making choices. Comes out in biology offspring numbers. In modern humans about 40% of men leave offspring, but about 80% of females leave offspring. Women are the choosers, the picky once that keep the human race healthy with their choices. Who is to blame means asking who is controlling this? Under these modern circumstances it's a bit hard to put the blame on solely men, for our current sexual degeneracy and the breakdown of moral decency. It's what women generally want. Not all, but most and the leading voices in our culture. They can walk down the street, smile and talk to a man and get sex. Men can't do that, most of us. I'm not Brad Pitt. I still remember when Christianity was the accepted norm for most Americans and Brits. Today 5% of Brits go to church weekly. I'd rather live in a Christian social order where sex is restrained, it seems a much more sustainable point of view. I prefer that type of culture. Christianity was built on sexual restraint being basic to the social order. But women are no longer interested in that. The old Christian America was better, but it's gone for most people. But the key is: it's gone because that's what women want. What do women want? Unfortunately its largely unrestrained hyper-gamy, and various sundry bad habits. Where is this going? All this may eventually end our civilization. In Europe, the Muslim population, is booming. Christian origin is in a nosedive. Don't blame the Muslims. Not their fault. Douglas Murray wrote The Strange Death of Europe. Should have been called The Death of Christian Europe. Islam is still very much alive. Christianity bought into feminism, so it's dying. Feminism is incompatible with Christianity because it breaks the basic sexual bond at the hear to Christianity. The Christian religion is near death. Prognosis: Cultures and religions with high sexual restraint are likely the only ones that survive evolution. America and the West seem doomed. If you think Incels are a problem, wait till people figure out, where this is headed. Incels are the Canary in the Coal Mine. 🐦

[@bigj3508]

This is a really good analysis of a growing problem with isolated young men. Thank you for actually tackling this with an unbiased approach. Since the concept of a bitter, complaining incel "loser" is revolting to women, and rightly so in many cases, so many people will try to cash in on the social credit of shitting on incels. Again, the concept of "incel" is assanine to me since celibacy for me has always been by choice, but I can understand how isolating and lonely it can be as a young man living in modern america, which is largely devoid of community or culture.

[@youcantbeatk7006]

Celibacy isn't a choice for men.

[@DoremonUCR]

Chris mini rant at the 1:21:00 mark is so spot on

[@camillasmith2116]

My ex boyfriend and I were evicted in august. He only had enough money for one night in the cheapest motel because he gambled the money that he was supposed to put towards a new apartment. After being on the street for 3 days, we got in a fight and I walked away. Suitcase in hand. *this is in a rough area of philly* I notice a well dressed handsome man because he was the only other white person on the street. Dude saw me struggling and obvi asked to help with my bags and offered a ride (I accepted even though I didn’t have a destination) Turns out he owned apartments in Philly and gave me the keys. Then he dropped me off and came back with brand new bedding, towels, toiletries and food from target. He gave me $200 to buy new clothes. I think being an naturally attractive young woman is magical. Like I met him and barely said anything to him and he lifted me up

[@camillasmith2116]

I didn’t tell him anything about my situation except I was inbetweenn apartments. He wanted to fuck me so I got SCARED even though he was hot i felt too vulnerable ya know? So I went to the strip club and a pilot gave me $500 to drink champagne with me. And Then I said fuck it and went to stay with my mom because I haven’t been home in over a year

[@synewparadigm]

I hope that you learned a lesson of not dating loosers or developing dependence on someone else.

[@AdelTheForsaken]

@@synewparadigm that is definitely a valuable lesson

[@ryandexter8994]

so what does any of this has to do with this video ?

[@dragorn3212]

female privilege case in point. Also quit making yourself the victim in your failed relationship because at the end of the day that gambling unstable guy was totally your choice. then they help you got afterward would happen to a guy literally once in a million year but it's routine for women. Your former boyfriend has to make it the hard way. But hopefully when he saw how easily and quickly you jumped ship from him he never made the mistake of getting a committed relationship again.

[@user-oi6ec8ge4c]

“Why don’t these guys date older women” Personally it’s the dignity aspect. Yes many men including myself like older women. However they tend to be the same women who would reject you when they were younger and had more options. No man wants to be viewed as a less exciting safe bet fall back option once women have had their fun with the real men and got their hearts broken by them and now just want an easier option once the pickings are slim. It’s not easy to practice in reality, but your dignity is more important than anything else.

[@sovereignbrehon]

That's a tight trap you're in, sir. Emancipated yourself.

[@redditor7548]

Well said. It’s not just about dignity also, women who have lead promiscuous lives going form chad to chad all their youth do not make viable long term partners once they are older and looking to settle down. They will always try and monkey branch to a man they see better then you and will divorce you for 50% of your stuff. Nobody wants to risk a relationship with these kind of women when there is so much liability these days. Women who have fried pair bonding from too much flings are danger.

[@Foxie770]

So happy to hear someone discussing these critical issues in a fair and public way. As a society, we must address how we have effectively “castrated” a group of straight males. It’s awful.

[@sarahrobertson634]

Women refusing men sexual access is not castration. Men were never entitled to sexual access to begin with. The myth that men have the right to sex needs to be dispelled. Sex is a privilege, not a right.

[@valemorena]

@@sarahrobertson634THANK YOU

[@sarahrobertson634]

@@valemorena You're welcome. Men feeling "castrated" because women don't want to have sex with them is the most ridiculous, irrational, overly emotional mindset on earth. But these psychos will get violent over it. I just saw a documentary about a man that stabbed his girlfriend 17 times because she turned him down for sex. These males are absolutely unhinged.

[@sarahrobertson634]

@@User-hq6rr The whole podcast is about involuntarily celibate males threatening society. Being involuntarily celibate means that women will not have sex with the person in question. So here we are back at square one.

[@youtubesucks2755]

@@sarahrobertson634 get out with your narrow thinking. Everything doesn't revolve around women and fucking women. It's not your space . Leave it.

[@gardian1701]

Again. Two men women would find attractive thinking they know what it's like being treated like a friek by women. Unless you experience what it's like being an incel you shouldn't presume to know. Even the sub average women these days DO think they're entitled to Leonardo Decaprio or Henry Cavil or Tom Hardy. This IS due to modern culture. I'm a divorcee, I've been told I'm "not unattractive" probably average tbh so I'm not an incel myself, but I can see exactly where they're coming from. 👌

[@honeysimon838]

I’m 23. I probably wouldn’t get married unless the laws changed. Too risky without mandatory paternity tests and a set amount of child support/alimony. First hurdle is not getting #metoo’d. Then the second hurdle is not getting divorced, which is a 50/50 bet. 70-80% of the time initiated by women. Then my kids would be raised in a broken home and destroyed. Nah. Change the laws or no dice.

[@samwise1790]

Lmao

[@honeysimon838]

@@samwise1790 what? It’s true lol

[@samwise1790]

@@honeysimon838 I dont doubt you believe its true

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

@@honeysimon838 pick the right partners, discuss these topics with them. Don’t be a coward and hide from your duty

[@carlwide6594]

The only thing he's wrong about is the 50/50 on getting a divorce. It depends on the amount of partners the woman has had. You've got 83% chance of the marriage lasting if she's a virgin. Once it gets past five partners... The odds are not in your favour, to say thee least.

[@krausewitz6786]

I don't think you can parachute in and study incels from the outside. If you're happy, healthy, and well-adjusted you just won't get it. Costello makes several mistakes in his time here that make me question his methods and insights. Is what he doing any better than anthropologists working in Africa a century ago going "Man, aren't these natives WEIRD!?". It's the same condescension and misunderstanding. I was young and frustrated before 'incels' were a thing, but I TOTALLY understand the mentality. I feel nothing but pity for them, and really hope they find a way out (the vast majority do, no doubt). To Costello: the incels you looked at have higher than average levels of desire for two reasons: they aren't getting any (DUH!), and they skew VERY young. What they are experiencing is totally normal and is felt by young men all over the world, all across history. Let's not pathologise it simply because the internet makes it visible.

[@thatnobodyguy1535]

"Why don't these guys try dating older women." C'mon dude. Older women generally are less fit and attractive. Less fertile so if you want to have children that's out. Have more relationship baggage. Have even more partners than younger women do. And likely already have kids of their own. Which you're expected to make an emotional, financial, & time investment in. That's assuming these older women will actually even lower their standards.

[@user-oi6ec8ge4c]

Personally it’s the dignity aspect. Yes many men including myself like older women. However they tend to be the same women who would reject you when they were younger and had more options. No man wants to be viewed as a less exciting safe bet fall back option once women have had their fun with the real men and got their hearts broken by them. It’s not easy to practice in reality, but your dignity is more important than anything else.

[@user-oi6ec8ge4c]

@@gibememoni for physical reasons and that they’re more mentally mature, but I still avoid them due to the humiliating aspect of being the fall back option later in life for them

[@Ghostrider-ul7xn]

Exactly. Idk why people propose these BS band aid solutions which isn't addressing the core issue. Many guys just want to have a normal life, start a family, and have kids. Why is this too much to ask for? Older women are less likely to provide us with kids, and secondly, if they actually made rational choices in life, majority wouldn't be single in their old age. How can anyone think this group such a catch to young men wanting to start a family?

[@peterrosqvist2480]

34:02 he must have been saying something different, because he would then contradict himself here

[@mrconfusion87]

They kinda do for Third World studs they meet in tropical beaches! 🤣🤣🤣

[@wades623]

Something I have experienced with online dating is as soon as I say I am interested in something long term or whatever you want to call it they always seem to lose interest immediately even though I specified it in my description and it was the same for theirs too

[@christinaharkins9484]

Exactly.

[@TYBG85]

That's weird. That's literally the inverse of my experience. Despite all the bullshit about "hook up culture" it's mostly one way. Men are using those apps looking for girls to fuck and ditch. I'm guilty of it myself. I find some girls I think are cute enough to screw but not cute enough that I wanna keep them and bring them places and around people I know. I know I'm a piece of shit for that. The main thing it seems like MOST not all but most girls want on those apps is a long term relationship. And I believe alot of incels are just so defeatist of mind that they don't even try to really improve themselves. I dude with a 4 or 5 face (hard to improve) but an 8 or 9 body will get plenty of fucking dates. She may not be super enthusiastic about it but it will get ur foot in the door. I've befriended a few of these girls ive slept with and have collected a lot of intel about what they want. Most of them want the cutest guy they can get to be their boyfriend. Which we all want so I don't blame them. If a girl is willing to go out with you and u don't turn out to act like a weirdo super autist or a psycho then more than likely she will want to be your girlfriend.

[@youcantbeatk7006]

Well at least people talk to you to begin with.

[@shasmi93]

Dude. Even in the times before internet you didn’t tell women you want long term right away… you’ll scare someone off with that. You go slow and see where things go, it’s takes MONTHS before you know if a partner is life suitable. If you are coming into the first convos and saying you want a life partner you sound insane and scare them off. That’s always been true.

[@showcase0525]

Pretty sadden about the critique about men dating older. Dating older doesnt solve the issue of having a desired mate, which age is a consideration. Options count. Quaility counts more.

[@SC-sn3xs]

Yet y'all cry and complain about how evil women are for only dating Chad's. Y'all don't want to be forced to date undesirable women. Yeah neither do we!

[@kaletovhangar]

​@@SC-sn3xsYou seem to equate Incels with obese neckbeard living in his mother's basement,which isn't really a common denominator.

[@TheMattTrakker]

@@SC-sn3xs You seem to lack any nuance. There is a difference in what/how many people are considered, "undesirable".

[@georgeb8328]

I’m 40 6 feet tall with a full time career and I’ve only had one girlfriend 8 years ago and it was a non sexual relationship. I still don’t see any route out of my loneliness.

[@itsomethingreat]

The problem is that whatever our points of view are, we are judging each other and claiming that our way of living life is better than the others. Let women who seek economical and financial power and success do what they want, and let women who seek having kids do what they want. There are a couple of things about this video that I need to criticise: 1. When I clicked on this video I was expecting information about the Incels themselves, not about their theory. Of course to understand the psychology of this group of people is necessary to understand what they think. But the problem is that the script is always orbiting around their theory. It would be extremely helpful, instead of doing this, to focus on their psychological profile and the factors that have led them becoming like this and having this rationalisation of the world. 2. Men have been out there for a long time doing exactly what those women named on the Bloomberg’s article are doing. There has not been many criticism about it, and certainly not many accusations of corporative and capitalistic interest behind it. A lot of hypocrisy here, to be honest. The problem we are facing, if one actually exists, is that we are all having a crisis. An identity crisis, a system crisis, an energetic crisis, and existential crisis. In all levels: as individuals and as society. If we really want to move on, we are not going to fix the situation by telling women what to do or how to be happy. The steam of the situation is far beyond this superficiality: education at early stages of life and adolescence. This is the key point. We all have been taught the same thing since we were little boys and girls: that we will be happy by succeeding, by having money, education, status, luxury, popularity, beauty, strength, by being powerful, by being a mother, by being a father, by having a family, by having a house, by having a mortgage… All of these things are focused on the outside. Focused on what we do with our lives. But what about the inside? Seriously. I know it sounds like a cliché. But it is true. There is a silent storm inside each one of us that no one talks about, but it is driving each one of our decisions on the outside. As individuals, we are feeling isolated, rejected, agitated, unstable. We feel we need to achieve objectives, we need to be better, we need to change who we are, we need to have more; as if we were not good enough by default. It doesn’t matter if we are pretty or ugly, rich or poor, man or woman, right or left. We are all feeling lost, we are all in search of peace. We all have big egos as a consequence of being damaged and influenced as kids and adolescents. My guess is that, if we try to focus on resolving this unattended and tormented relationship with ourselves (by focusing on the inside, not on the outside), the rest will follow naturally by itself. I really hope this helps someone.

[@Ψυχήμίασμα]

"If we really want to move on, we are not going to fix the situation by telling women what to do or how to be happy" That's not what is proposed (recommendations made from study data, perhaps, are). But, indulging the supposed notion that "telling people what to do" is in fact what is proposed, why not? For men as well. Why can't the fix be to tell everyone: men, women, children, teens, old people, your cat, your accountant, what to do and how to be happy? I'm neither championing that nor arguing against it, and I see your reason for thinking that way, but your reason and solution (of changing education when young) are both facets of "telling people what to do." " This is the key point. We all have been taught the same thing since we were little boys and girls: that we will be happy by succeeding, by having money, education, status, luxury, popularity, beauty, strength, by being powerful, by being a mother, by being a father, by having a family, by having a house, by having a mortgage" It depends on how you define each of these things. But have we though? Been taught this? I haven't been taught that at all personally. In fact I have never been taught to be happy to begin with. I was taught happiness is a transient emotion, and will disappear as quickly as it arrives. Therefore I should be careful of it. As young as I remember, my whole family was taught to master our feelings, and to pursue purpose, over happiness, in life. I think you're projecting your own experience onto how the rest of the world is taught. However, there is meaning and purpose and indeed joy that can derive from financial security, from success, status, and of course, beauty. These are worthy pursuits. Not because they give you happiness, but because they are worth it in and of themselves. "We feel we need to achieve objectives, we need to be better, we need to change who we are, we need to have more; as if we were not good enough by default." Simple. We both are and aren't. We are good enough to be able to make something of our lives. But we still need to strive to be better than that which we are. To not change is to not ever having left your bedroom, to explore what is possible for you. Caged bird's existence. "We are all feeling lost, we are all in search of peace." Not true. I've never felt lost. Nor am I in search of peace. Not saying I had never been lost. It's not the general state of my being, nor the source of any malcontent in my life. But again, it depends on what you mean by these things. Usually people remark that I must have privilege or something when I say that I don't feel lost, but my family lived in poverty until we grew up into adults. So, it's not status or financial security that I can make that claim. It was actually having nothing that instilled a clear purpose in all of us in our youth. "We all have big egos as a consequence of being damaged and influenced as kids and adolescents. My guess is that, if we try to focus on resolving this unattended and tormented relationship with ourselves (by focusing on the inside, not on the outside), the rest will follow naturally by itself." Which is why we need Jesus Christ? lol.

[@wuffy68]

If I was in my early 20's today, I would probably fall into the Incel category. I had the experience of starting out relatively normal - had my first kiss with a girl when we were 11 (it was bad, but I wanted to get it right the next time). We moved away shortly after that first experience to a new neighborhood, and new schools with a lot of unexpected social pressures. _Beckie's and Chads existed back in 1980's too_ . I came from a country school into an upper-middle class neighborhood. I went from a middle of the road social status to bottom of the totem pole overnight (it was the inverse story of Footloose. Most of my friends became the guys I shared the computer lab with (we had one Apple II and a Commodore PET with a dot-matrix printer). The type of girls I would have been attracted to at my old school had much higher social status and standards at the new school and I wasn't in any of their cliques - more like a social pariah/weirdo who wore western shirts from the thrift store instead of IZOD and Nike. Long story short, I didn't date again until I was out of High School - and I had no experience with girls since I was 11. When I was 19, my first "real" gf wound up treating me so badly due to my inexperience (in my mind), that it made me distrustful of women. I actually wound up hooking up with the girl I kissed when we were 11, but there again - thanks to my inexperience, she broke it off. Figured out later I had partial ED from damage sustained in a bad skiing accident when I was 14, but when you're 19, you're suppose to be "ready at all times" right?! I descended into deep depression and anxiety - going through a few "platonic" relationships until finally, when I was 23, I met a girl a year older than me - who had the patience to deal with all of this psychological and physical damage. We wound up having a good (not always perfect) sex life - and we've been together for 31 years now. Viagra works great, but when you're already damaged from past experiences - sex is *never* a carefree act. Point is - there are a lot of factors that can lead a young man towards incel-dom (not just because you don't look like Chad).

[@KFrost-fx7dt]

You were not an incel, just a kid who didn't date in his teens. Most high-schoolers don't even date. It's not like it was in our grandparents day.

[@theflamingone8729]

Has anyone considered, the higher rate of violence in relationships where the woman earns more, may be due to the woman treating her partner worse because she doesn't need him. I have noticed women treat me differently when I have/control something they need/want compared to how they treat me after they I have given/performed that which they desire/require.

[@marym3355]

That is why women need stronger partner.

[@helpme7272]

yep, obvious. briffault's law at work.

[@eziop5539]

Yes, she subconsciously resents him for not earning more than her. It's hardwired in their biology that men should provide and be the breadwinner. And when society tries to change this, it just causes problems.

[@theflamingone8729]

@@marym3355 what do you mean by stronger? More willing to withhold from his partner? "Treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen"? One definitely must be willing to engage in conflict, I've even heard it said the intensity with which couples fight (physical violence excluded) is less important than how that is dealt with after.

[@marym3355]

@@theflamingone8729 Women are wired to be attracted to smarter, funnier and financially stronger men than they are. If she can smell a weakness in a man she becomes more abusive and looses respect.

[@sunfish4095]

The male self deletion rate is not really considered a problem as far as I gather nor is male wellbeing in general. The question we all seem to have is that since it is only cared about when it effects others i.e. they increasingly delete other people along with self, does this mean we have to care about the wellbeing of boys and men to some degree?

[@stueypooey9742]

Ya boy Dr. Peterson remarked at the choice not to have kids, and I’m paraphrasing: ‘Ok, you don’t want kids, you wanna enjoy your time and your career, great. Fast forward to when you’re 45+ or even further to retirement, now what?’ I think he’s got a point myself. The greatest joys in my parents life nowadays are their grandparents so far as I can tell!

[@Aeriesan]

Lots of childfree women at 50, 60 etc are very happy. They write about it all the time on Reddit posts, etc. We can all have different lifestyle choices my friend

[@carlwide6594]

No-one believes them, though. It's just cope.

[@yeetdeets]

@@Aeriesan I know two women in such a situation. One has kind of adopted a family and grandchild. The other is isolated and depressed, probably not by choice.

[@samanthachurch]

I'm not sure why it's confusing tobmen that come retirement age, we would like to not die of starvation because we chose instead to have the baby of any man who wanted to impregnate us. We'd like money in our retirement accounts. Just like you, do. Kids would be nice. But not so nice Im willing to destroy my life.

[@youtubesucks2755]

@@Aeriesan Agree. Life isn't all about popping out kids. Not everybody needs to propagate the population. We already have an over population problem going on.

[@PolishPerspective]

Date older? Thats self sabotage not strategy.

[@kimjong-du3180]

From what I always hear from married men, it is mostly married men that end up being incels after having kids. Does not being a married incel count as being an incel?

[@greg7120]

Smart comment.

[@DnDnight]

The most involuntary celibate are married men.

[@grannyannie2948]

@@DnDnight Except that statistically married men have more sex than single men. Married men would just like more sex than most married women. But if you ask them honestly they still get more than when they were single.

[@grannyannie2948]

But at least they have accomplished the biological need to reproduce their genes.

[@kimjong-du3180]

@@grannyannie2948 This is nonsense, men don't care, if they get more sex than married women or not. What kind of a nonsense comparison is this? The thing is, that they want to have sex (with their wives) and they can't, because their wives don't want to have sex, so they are incels - this is the definiton of an incel - you want sex, but you don't get it. If I ask them honestly they get none - 0, this is the honest answer. After having kids, this is the important part. It is unlikely that the statistics makes this discrimination. The lucky ones maybe get sex once a year or two, which means that they are incles for the 99,7% of the year. Louis C.K. made a great stand-up about that. Besides, being an incel is about living without sex for a long time - involuntarily, not about leaving your genes, so this is irrelevant. They are just as miserable as the other guys, because they do not get sex they need. Even worse, if they want to be faithful, they cannot look for sex outside of their relationship, so they are stuck in this miserable situation, from which the only escape is divorce. You can have a kid with a random girl in your 20s, leave your genes and then live the rest of your life as an incel. I don't see how it is any better.

[@Stukkeman]

I ran my own business, now earn enough to invest 3/4, are 6’6”, own outright my home by the ocean, fit black-belt, double degree, built my former home, do pro-bono work helping others. I hike, surf, trail run, love learning and work out for lean strength. Not flashy, my car is a common AWD, I’m content and happy. I’m blessed with a small number of magnificent friends I’ve known and grown with over decades. I’d say, as would my friends, that I pursue excellence. I’m open to a relationship that’s an improvement in an already magnificent life. Though I meet with interest from women, I’m not interested in casual. I’ve been single for several years (5yrs) and have met many single women in this time, all of whom i quickly found repulsive due to their character. I will not pursue, or allow myself to be pursued by, a woman who is currently in a relationship, as a matter of integrity. I’m not into mostly narcissistically entitled, smug, angry, emotionally infantile, dishonest, drama addicted, self-obsessed disrespectful victim-oriented women. This is the majority of single women I meet. I find this kind of person repulsive, man or woman. I am into mostly happy and actualised, psychologically adult, femininely strong, self-confident, elegant, empathic, gracious, generous, respectful, open, integrous, able to experience awe and wonder and gratitude, self-responsible naturally attractive, self-aware, thoughtfully intelligent and informed women. I have female friends like this who have great partners, have male friends who have partners like this, yet I have not met any single women like this in years. I’m sure they exist, though have not yet met such a single woman in this time. I do meet with interest, sometimes based purely on my financial position alone, yet I haven’t found any attractive or want to date, in many years.

[@cattan4696]

better to be single than with someone who doesn't enhance your life

[@amymccoy504]

Were you previously married? Divorce sucks even when it’s for the best. Sorry it’s been so hard for you. It sounds like you will find someone so try not to get discouraged!

[@Stukkeman]

@@amymccoy504 Thank you. Not discouraged at all. Realistic optimist. I live a wonderful life, and while I’m open to enriching my life, I’m not at all longing for that. If that happens I’ll welcome the gift with grace. My commentary was more around the dearth of women who take responsibility for their life - it’s astounding the number of women who think because of their appearance they’re gods gift when their character makes them repulsive. I feel for guys with the warrior mindset who pursue excellence - as if they’re not interested in promiscuity, there’s a real challenge for them. I’d rather enjoy my singleness and friends and 🏄🏽‍♂️🏃🏾‍♂️🍴🍷🏕️🥋🧘🏽‍♂️ than bring unnecessary and foreseeable drama into my life. As you guessed, my former partner of 14 fantastic years suddenly bailed, due to and by her own admission, when my business took a short term financial hit (it was for 6months). That was 5 years ago and I’m now earning more than twice what I was before then.

[@DrKaill]

Great discussion, been looking forward to this since the clips came out.

[@zeno2501]

17:20 "As hypergamy declines, female infidelity goes up." Is that not still just hypergamy? Why is that not still hypergamy? Because infidelity isn't necessarily hypergamous? It seems to me that female infidelity isn't much different from hypergamy. If their hypergamous nature causes them to be unhappy with their partner, they have the instinct to try and find a better one via infidelity. Or is William saying that women who are unsuccessful at finding a high status partner that satisfies their hypergamy would rather have multiple sexual partners of lower status than commit to one of lower status?

[@monk3110]

Yea that’s how you get the one guy to raise the baby of the dude you actually wanted…. Sounds hypergamous and I now discredit this fella a bit cuz yea wtf??

[@jeromehenry4484]

Ever hear of the hot pool boy? or lifeguard? or forest ranger? etc. She can cheat with a hot guy that is not economically feasible as a marriage mate, but perfect for a fling. Hypergamy's end goal is marriage to someone equal or preferably higher status; hypergamy actually makes sense for any woman that wants to have children. Hypergamy is not really based on looks (though most red-pillers/MGTOW harp on Chads & Tyrones), but it is based on financial stability and career trajectory.

[@TheWereManatee]

Good question!

[@lordofgingers]

Probably the second one. Women larping as men. That includes having rotations. Polyamory and the like. Can’t get everything they want in one man so they settle for splitting their needs across multiple men.

[@lukebruce5234]

The guy is adopting female tactics, mainly gaslighting. He will tell you hypergamy has been decreasing.

[@goodenergy11]

Love it! Have one child & empty nester. I love being single for 14 years & financially finally becoming wealthy. I will give back to society & glad to have intelligence, compassion, & passion. I’m healthy & have a long time ahead of me. My neighbor is 100 + years of age & has been single for 40+ years. The older women get the higher our standards are & we’d totally rather be single than poorly paired. Thank goodness. Socializing & friends are enough!

[@MultiCookie20]

I agree that the older women get the higher the standards. Especially if they worked on having a good life. Why would I risk my well being for the wrong person?

[@MultiCookie20]

@@sambadham1404 Not women that already have a good life by themselves and see a relationship as a bonus. The older I get the more I get to build the kind of life I want so I get more selective because I have more to protect.Older men are not more desirable, some - like the ones that comment here just get more bitter.

[@okaySam]

Both men and women are capping when it comes to growing old and being single. Only very few men who work hard on themselves have many options while getting older. Also very few women truly enjoy being alone with their cat and collecting bad experiences with men. Most people get bitter while staying alone. Some convince themself they're alone by choice.

[@areuarealman7269]

Why is everyone so concerned about society it doesn't care about you.

[@goodenergy11]

@@sambadham1404 Archetypal tragedies. True for many of the hollow hearted men seeking hot babes. Those unthinking young hot women are sadly falling for a douche & many intelligent people of whatever gender & whatever age pity the glaring pathetic pitfalls of either side of that crumbling coin. Lives of desperation come inevitably wrapped in that pathetic package. Pathos. Pity. Some pitiful men admire pitiful men like this. No one admires the woman that is prey here but watch out if she has awakened & discovers her stinger before she’s stung dry & turns table. In either case, they crumble in various inevitable ways. True that true love & ideal & lasting partnerships are a potential realized for the rare fortunate & they bless, and are blessed. The wise & loving desire this & accept nothing less but such patience is needed & nothing taken for granted as far as being so fortunate. People who believe that the single are secretly miserable are weak & not worth partnering with. I pray everyone becomes strong & worthy & then truly takes that chance to be rarely fortunate if good fortune genuinely appears & is recognized. Bless the evolving beautiful souls kept true & choosing comedy & not tragedy! Keep your soul well, everyone, that’s the secret sauce.

[@andrewcox1677]

I like the way William shows off his degree certifcate.

[@dovonovich]

Will had a Freudian-slip at 13:10 and referred to “sex workers” as prostitutes-which they are, as well as the men who partake. Kind of funny, call it as it is. Furthermore, you’re being disingenuous if you do not believe modern women, collectively on average, don’t have *unrealistic* expectations much of the time. There’s a difference between being realistic vs “settling”. Other women have called out some of the behaviors of these modern women. Compare lists of what each side wants, and you’ll see time and time again men like to keep it simple whereas the list for women steadily climbs.

[@masterxious6419]

If your wife makes even one $ a year more than you, you will never hear the end of it.

[@SamM-gl9zc]

It's funny, that in a society where the family unit and personal relationships are crumbling while narcissism seems to be on the rise, our big answer that's gonna fix it is; You need to think about yourself more 😂

[@mstorgaardnielsen]

I would really like if Chris would look more into monogamy vs polygamy. How far are we from totally disbanding monogamy as the default and what will the concequences be for society?

[@helpme7272]

@acac no, it wont happen because single men spend less, pursue minimalist life style, are more nomadic, and can easily leave country. as for women, they argue more, and one men will hold most power and put the women in negotiation position. imagine a guy with 3 wives. the 4th better be bringing something. women quarrel a lot and make each others lives hell. and they cant extract wealth easily from him if he's taking care of more kids from women he already married to, meaning child support and alimony of women wont be much. kids will likely end in his custody because he has women to take care of them... etc

[@carlwide6594]

Already there.

[@helpme7272]

@@carlwide6594 ah, ok. I thought he talking about the other polygamy that involves marriage and not simply mating.

[@grannyannie2948]

I can't think of any civilization that went from monogamy to polygamy. So I don't know how to predict what happens. Since covid I have noticed a huge interest among primary school mothers already planning which kids would be suitable for who when they become adults. Maybe instead of polygamy we will evolve to parents once again arranging their childrens marriages. In many ways this was a fairer system.

[@mstorgaardnielsen]

Usually it is stated that we have a system of “serial monogamy”. But is that different in concequenses from full blown polygyny? If the divorced women end up with the kids and society ends up taking over the responsibilty of the dad to a larger or lesser degree, how is that different from polygyny in societal consequences? Both serial monogamy and polygyny leaves a trail of men cut out of reproduction. But cut out of reproduction, they end up having no incentive to contribute to society and then everybody loose as we depend on each other.

[@magdap28]

As a 32 , single , childless I think not work is the most important, but survival. Where I am you have just 4 months paid for pregnancy and after the birth. I will not have a baby if I can not raise it myself

[@Opal5674]

You egt paid time off for maternity leave? Where I am they five you up to 4 months unpaid.

[@Opal5674]

@@mgtowbylogic5592 Women didn't have to go to a job. They could stay around thr homestead and do things but they didn't have to go every far from home. As these men said most men now days can't afford to support a wife and kids on his income alone. I've seen women come to work only 2 weeks after having a baby. No chance even to establish a good milk supply for breast feeding. Kids being raised by family and strangers at daycare vulnerable to abuse.

[@Opal5674]

@@mgtowbylogic5592 Even the men in this video admit that there are so many men who simply can't support a family that the women HAVE to work. and of course you can't ask women who didn't have fathers in the home themselves growing up who's mother's didn't have fathers growing up to just sit there and wait for a man that's going to be willing to fully support her and the kids while she caters to his every s3xual desire and keeps his house clean and tries not to age or gain any weight or he leaves her for a 20 something year old after she's given him 3 kids or so and then she's probably in her 40s and has to go to work anyway for the first time oh and the has to share her kids with the step mom. Of course women want to be financially independent. I know for 100% sure I will never be abused by a man because I am not dependent on one.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

@@mgtowbylogic5592 And that's why they choose not to anymore

[@scifirealism5943]

That's messed up.

[@angelat228]

That's why a conversation including men and women together is the best way to understand and solve problems together

[@cavy369]

how do we solve the problem of women not wanting to take accountability for their own faults

[@edenbreckhouse]

From my experience (I'm 58) few women are remotely interested in understanding men.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

@@cavy369 Just like you do when men take no accountability for their faults. And there's more than plenty of those

[@Yomel123]

Men would and have never listened to women so you wouldn’t get very far

[@youtubesucks2755]

@@wyleecoyotee4252 there's only 1% of those. Women are at least 90%

[@lordofgingers]

Thank You for mentioning Alex Date.Psych and for speaking with William Costello. These are the kind of people that will help you understand the experiences you and I do not live.

[@lordofgingers]

@@thinking-ape6483 cognitive primate in the house! Also given that things can be misconstrued online. Is this a happy to see me here you or a different you? 😂

[@lordofgingers]

@@thinking-ape6483 he watches and gathers data just like anyone else. It’s only a matter of time as Alex gains more traction. And I’m glad he is

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

What an amazing interview. Thanks for this.

[@-haclong2366]

45:45 Looksmaxxing is literally the idea that you can improve yourself to find a mate, the thing about it is that you first have to acknowledge that no woman will ever love for who you are and that she will only ever love a better looking version of you.

[@dragorn3212]

Women only love you for your money and status, then looks. Add being rich and high status in addition to good looking to the list of requirements for genuine love.

[@xwaazes6375]

I'm a young guy who has accepted that I'll never have a romantic relationship with a woman, but I still want to provide and contribute, what should I focus on?

[@rgonzalo511]

Get a job

[@QoraxAudio]

Become a relationship therapist!

[@samobispo1527]

Leonardo DiCaprio has realized that he doesn’t have to buy a book store, or even read the same book all of his life. He learned that if you have a library card, and you return it on time, the library will let you borrow a brand new book.

[@phyllislovelace8151]

Thank you gentlemen

[@IronFurball]

Please change the title, It incites violence against and fear of people who are already in a difficult position and have done nothing wrong. I know KZbin promotes clickbait titles but this is too much, you are better than this chris. Otherwise love your content man.

[@hqrlock]

"Men being hopeless with women is not a new phenomenon" It is.

[@seeyanexttuesday23]

Women look at Leo DiCaprio dating younger women as completely laughable and indicating something is wrong with him. Not that he must be "doing something right."

[@rgonzalo511]

@@zumazuma568 it's nervous laughter you'll notice how most of the women criticizing are old women who are single or just older women in general. It's probably a deep seated fear that their husbands will leave them for a younger and prettier thing imo

[@rgonzalo511]

@@zumazuma568 there's no stuck in his teens...younger women are simply more attractive objectively speaking youth is an attractive feature in women. Trust me as a men I would say over 80 percent of men feel this way. You could have a 60+ year old man in a happy 30 year long marriage and he will still want young attractive woman

[@mrconfusion87]

Leo is all about living a life of pleasure since he can! 🤣🤣🤣

[@Rotting12]

@@rgonzalo511pedo

[@rgonzalo511]

@@lambchop6278 Our preferences are deeply rooted. Men often aren't even conscious about them(just like women). Also men have them for a reason. The whole point of life is to reproduce, and younger women are simply more fertile. So sings of youth are thus attractive to men. Also I don't think most people have a need for long term love when there older. They have needs for companionship. But that doesn't mean a long term romantic partner. Friends and family do that job just fine. If you look at indigenous people they don't have a concept of divorce. It's understood in their culture that given enough time the couple will loose interest and leave. And when they do no one cares. If we weren't so isolated as elderly from others it's my opinion that divorces would be way higher. Due to no longer staying out of the fear of loneliness.

[@joelharvey]

4:00 Point of correction for Costello - Women are not actually more conscientious than men, they're slightly more orderly, whereas men are slightly more industrious.

[@welcometoWWW]

To your question at around 3:30 Chris. I would say our generation has bore witness to what it looks like to experience a matriarchy. It would explain so much, why women adopt traits of men, why trans is a thing, why metoo is a thing, why hillary clinton was a serious contender, why sex for the youth is becoming more and more of a marker of success, it's why cancel culture exists because this is the primary female mode of attack, and furthermore it also explains why in America at least we are OBSSESSED with the idea of safety since this would surely be a primary concern of a mother as opposed to a father who is more worried about instilling the right values in you WITH the pain. It explains why this society is so overbearingly lovey dovey. Also would explain why men are treated like second class citizens when they have a problem compared to when a woman has a problem. This is the essence of the tyrannical mother who loves you to death. The Matrix ruined a generation of men, so to me it's kinda annoying to hear how men need to improve when statistically more women are fat than men are. Men do need to improve of course, but just know... they are trying to improve under conditions upon which purely benefit females over males and actively has a society where all the women lambast men for their masculinity.

[@seb_travel]

Read that like reading my own thoughts. Wild. Gynocentrism is what you're noting. There isn't a desire for partnership anymore, it has become quite adversarial. My grandparents built a small agricultural empire together, so too my parents. After a decade of dating, I do not expect to meet a modern woman with such conviction myself.

[@fifthpint4571]

@@seb_travel You both nailed it. Gynocentric dominance has somehow resulted in a less caring and less mellow society, despite what women widely claim a female-led world would look like. I cannot help but think that this has not occurred organically, that there are actors who enforce gynocentrism via media and state apparatus. That there are actors (TPTB) who are skewing our reality with a purpose in mind. Publicly declared disdain for certain social groups (white CIS males) is overwhelming (if not possible to really emulate at a personal level) and the encouragement, the cheering on for this adversarial type of relationship between the sexes looks clearly deliberate to me.

[@welcometoWWW]

@@fifthpint4571 I suspect those who stand to benefit from gynocentrism the most are the genetically gifted. Social media does plenty to reinforce the idea of only seeing pretty people. I can see this being adjacent to the depopulation angle or even a push towards a soft form of eugenics being performed at society. Female sexual selection is brutal and almost seems more masculine in its nature ironically but it is in fact feminine. Hollywood and American culture has likely propelled these type of people in power hence why presidents elected in this country get taller on average. Compared to their competition I mean they win if they are taller

[@jordanwhisson5407]

Much of what you said is born from the number of sperm compared to the number of eggs competition, one egg per month compared to a man being able to have more than one ejaculation in a session when young. Much of the second-class citizen stuff has the same social sexual origin. Women adopt the traits of men because those traits are seen to be successful, pure human biology. Sex has always been and will be the ultimate marker of success, you see ugly men with ugly bodies with beautiful young women because they are billionaires. What we have to contemplate is that as much as anything it is men who drive this just as much as women. The better looking more successful men are who women have always had flings and affairs with and where the cuckold man is derived from historically.

[@nackedgrils9302]

I think it'll get a lot worse before it starts getting better. What I see more and more around me is that higher education is dominated by young women because most young men do not fit within this model and end up dropping out. It's also pretty clear at this point that colleges and universities' purpose is mostly about indoctrinating young people and perpetuating these very same values of safety, affirmation and reinforcing this divide between the sexes but also between races. With more and more young people who failed to develop critical thinking falling prey to these flawed ideologies and then occupying more positions of power in society in order to apply these ideologies into the real world, it can only get exponentially worse. We're in dire need to hear more reasonable voices but the woke generation doesn't want to listen to reason and will bully anyone they don't agree with out of their sight. I've personally given up on living in North America, but being uneducated, I have no money or prospects of leading a viable life elsewhere, so suicide is probably my best option. So much for ''progress''.

[@richwarburton4018]

The best way to navigate this situation is to read Marcus Aurelius' meditations.

[@Ms.Shortcake2008]

We’re not second class… we do not get paid well for this job in coin but it’s the most important job role there is and we do get paid in other rewards. Also raising the future generations is far more of an aspiration than ‘getting around a bit’. Sorry ladies, it’s not a flex to most mothers.

[@carlwide6594]

Yes. It's quite literally the most important job on the planet. Men only invented'work' to not have to kill to eat, to allow for non-violent status competition and to support a family. It's all of minimal importance compared to raising a kid.

[@carbon1479]

39:05 - An additional angle to the incel issue. Lets hypothetically say that the guy is wonderfully well-adjusted to the point where he's like 'Cool, if I'm really shut out of the dating game I can still hike, I can still pursue spirituality, I can read Aaron Clarey's 'The Menu', I can be my own man' - he still has to grapple with society demoting his social status and what that does to his earning potential, ie. their showdown for survival at that point is with the ever status-conscious bucket of crabs and all of the people who want to take every single one of their traits and say that if you're lower on the socioeconomic hiearchy than I am then you have no right to peace, freedom, or happiness of any kind - ie. so long as they're in workplaces or careers that are competitive they're likely to get bullied, at which point they either have to change career field or have to become enough of an arsehole that they didn't get to be their own person after all.

[@levansegnaro4637]

Yea that's the divide, you're left feeling like an outcast in the world, only interacting with it to aquire the resources you need to survive. Then going back to your safe zone. It feels like tarkov but in the corporate office xD. It is what it is, I'd you want a friend, get a dog.

[@levansegnaro4637]

If*

[@andrewzembar3869]

@UC4C6lveBMV89CTb_xgsuBvw lol yeah dude seems miserable. Most red/black pill content creators seem that way. Their messaging isn't necessarily wrong...just exaggerated...and their personal lives are not what they project to their audiences

[@SoRight8]

@@andrewzembar3869 Agree!

[@carbon1479]

@Lisa Fenwick agreed, he's good.

[@elibennett6168]

Not saying at all that having children is a bad choice, but I do think it is interesting that I've never seen these kinds of explorations into why a subset of men remain single and childless into their 40s+ while they pour their lives into careers. Why question women if you haven't questioned the same in men?

[@grinningtiki220]

Because men don't lose the ability to have children once they enter their 40s. The longer women wait the harder it is for them and the more difficult the pregnancy will be the greater the Heartbreak when they figure out that they couldn't put it on hold. I'm 36 I dated a gal in our late twenties whose father had passed away 10 years prior in his 80s, he was a World War II vet. Homie was pushing 65 when he had a kid. The mom was in her late 30s.

[@madamegaga2010]

Yeah Chris seems like he has an agenda against women. L

[@elibennett6168]

​@@grinningtiki220 No doubt men can still create sperm but fertility drops with age, and older fathers tend to produce more Down Syndrome so age does matter for men, and technology is allowing more women to have children in 50's so there's more parity these days. But that's not the point. There are plenty of non-gay bachelor men who never have kids. We don't question them as if they are unnatural. It's like men can understand other men's choice, but cannot understand why a woman would make the same choice. Too funny. I have a female friend that knew in her twenties she never wanted children. Many years later, no husband, no children, very happy.

[@missyjay3878]

@@grinningtiki220 But honestly, do you expect women to believe that men genuinely care about us possibly being heart broken because we may or may not be able to have a child? Men never really seemed to care about women’s emotions any other time.

[@grinningtiki220]

@@missyjay3878 I'm sorry you haven't known any good men.

[@Smitch2909]

I think that it's not always true that women who chooses not to have children are buying Gucci shoes and travelling. I'm happily married but the idea of trying to be a 'successful' mother and also a 'successful' self supporting member of society seemed like too much for us to take on. We paid for our own education and housing is so expensive. On two good incomes we really, really saved to buy a place, living in a house share for most of our 20's. While I love many aspects of my job (architect) working has a heavy stress burden and fitting in a healthy lifestyle (socially, mentally and physically) around that already felt like enough. We're grafting, enjoying being outside with the dog, seeing family and friends with a focus on trying to reduce the mortgage to try and bring down the work burden as early as possible. Can't really see how having children works without huge additional pressure and stress that, for me, personally, would be overwhelming. Absolutely love your discussions and thank you for introducing me to new people and ideas.

[@bighands69]

If you do not have children and are in a relationship you have to make a decision. Either you want to put in all the years to build a career which will finish at 65 no matter what people tell you or you build a family and legacy. If a women is young enough she can have put the foundation in to have a career and then have children and return to the career later when the children are more independent. My wife was able to have a family and a medical career and still could compete in athletics. I worked 80 hours a week, still had time for the children and could live a healthy lifestyle. There is something that many women who are chasing a career do not understand because it is never discussed is the high probability of depression that childless women develop as they get older and the same thing applies to men but in a different fashion. Modern society is calling it loneliness but in reality it is the lack of family structure that causes this depression.

[@Smitch2909]

@@bighands69 I think you're probably right about a link between lack of a family and mental health and would be interested in studies showing this. Whlie there may well be a link I think being childess is only part of the picture, along with many other societal factors. I think that's great that you guys managed to do all those things and it makes you happy I just think that for me it would mean sacrificing things that bring me happiness and adding additional anxiety adn strain on a life that I feel already often feels too tough. I want time to be slow not to be faster. Not interested in a 'legacy' of any kind would just like people to say I was a kind person when I go. Appreciate you sharing your view.

[@princetonscholar5723]

We ARE buying Gucci shoes & traveling 🎉

[@youcantbeatk7006]

All successful mothers are successful, supporting members of society. There's no such thing as a "self supporting," member of society. You either work for a boss that hates you or a family that might love you.

[@Smitch2909]

@@youcantbeatk7006 I think you're absolutely right I wrote this very badly. By 'successful mother'. I meant being a mother that meets whatever my own definition of doing that successfully would be (not sucking at it) and of course all mothers support society that was pretty stupid of me. By self supporting member of society I meant tax payers and it would have been better if I'd written that. The rub is that most women necessarily need to be mothers and earn an income and that can feel like alot. Not all families have the option to view 'working for the family' in the same way as bringing home money although I very much see your point that they are equally valid.

[@MisyeDiVre]

We do tell men to date older, and struggle to appreciate why they may not want to. Every day, I'm witnessing the effects of women having their first child near their mid thirties. It really takes a toll on their bodies, and obesity is a huge threat. There isn't as much awareness about cardiac disease in women, but it really is a silent killer, because the warning signs are more subtle. This, combined with all of the complications that one can expect at much higher frequencies, may also take an increased psychological ( eg. The trauma of having suffered multiple miscarriages, or of a still birth ) as well as physiological toll (injuries from labour or emergency C-sections, can impact mobility). Waiting later to have children, as has become the custom, does impart many costs. To sweeten the deal, our lack of profound reverence for motherhood (second only to our near disregard of fatherhood) is frankly just the icing on the cake. No wonder so many young women are becoming petrified of pregnancy and motherhood. Anyway, I would rather pick a woman in her twenties to avoid these things as much as possible. I'm honestly puzzled as to the seeming lack of proactivity coming from so many women that I know who are normally on the ball with most things in life. What is preventing them from acknowledging this?

[@dahliaherrod4301]

I think it's because none of these issues are discussed with women as teens and young adults. I've never, not once, heard any girl discuss fertility. It simply isn't done. We definitely don't discuss heart issues even though it's in the top 5 killers for women, especially black women. I think we take it for granted that fertility won't be an issue and assume it will always be that way. I also think that most women are woefully undereducated in their own reproductive systems. We literally have no clue how our bodies actually work so it's no wonder that the issues you just named are still prevalent.

[@dragorn3212]

@@dahliaherrod4301 Why is it an issue? the real issue is that women are so pampered and validated that they can stuff their face with 5 happy meals and pizza hut 5 dollar deal all day and men still think they're hot. Obesity and heart disease doesn't just happen, women choose to be fat. As a man btw i don't have the option to just be a disgusting broke slob and still get a bunch of attention from women. In fact most men who make above average money and are in shape still don't get dates.

[@shananagans5]

"Single women without kids have an average $65,000 in wealth compared to $57,000 for child free men." A new study finds that by age 25, single women have gotten roughly $8,000 worth of free meals from men.

[@dragorn3212]

Its not just meals. It's rent, cars, degrees, favors, the list goes on. They get to be children until they are 55

[@juliettailor1616]

Na, it's not free. It comes with sex. Still cheaper than a prostitute. If men wanted to commit then they wouldn't be shilling out all that money constantly.

[@AW-wo2pm]

Brilliant discussion! 🚀

[@pastexpiry2013B]

Better to go to the grave alone than struggle financially with a spouse (at least until she divorces you)

[@levifriesen2299]

Awhile ago you had mentioned looking for a dating coach for women to talk to, I think Matthey Hussey would be a phenomenal pick for that. I think that would be an excellent conversation!

[@levifriesen2299]

@Lisa Fenwick will do!

[@ligafftheindifferent3495]

The idea of dating older is one I tried. But aside from the "cougar" who usually only hunts Chad, women simply don't date younger men seriously. I think it has never been suggested much because men, across the spectrum, have LESS success with older women than younger ones or ones their own age/. I certainly believe most incels would LOVE to date an older woman.

[@dragorn3212]

These incels would love to which is why the older women still have the power and won't date them. Their standards are still quite high and men who don't make the cut-off with women their own age also usually don't make it with older women. I learned this the hard, always thought that if push came to shove i could at least stoop down to older women. Only to realize that older women's standards were still insane.