DOUGLAS MURRAY & MATT DILLAHUNTY FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER! Islam, Immigration & Jordan Peterson

[@Pangburn]

JOIN US IN NYC ON JUNE 1st for ALEX O'CONNOR vs DINESH D'SOUZA on "IS THE BIBLE TRUE?" Tickets available here: www.pang-burn.com/tickets

[@agnosticmonk4952]

May 3rd, 2018 I believe. Please post dates if you show something, it is very relevant to the conversation.

[@bluedemon218]

Agreed

[@DandyDandy]

Will @pangburn ever consider having time stamps?

[@richardmartyn7865]

The flat earth society announces it is a global movement , contradicting its own thesis .

[@Katherine-wx1kh]

😂😂🎉

[@blossom357]

Assuming flat earth were true (it's not), one could probably still use "global" in the same way we now use "phone" for what is essentially a pocket computer

[@listen2me00]

Thata stupid. Because when we refer to phone we refer to an object that​ transmits ans recieves our voice. Globe refers to a 3D circular object. Smart ppl would not refer to Pizza Planet as a globe. @blossom357

[@richardsmusic5577]

What a great conversation. Thank you for this 😊

[@telesedrin]

Did Douglas call Matt ":Sam"? 1:29:39 ?

[@paulfitzsimons3854]

I love Douglas. I love how he battles with his own contradictions, knowingly and unknowingly.

[@ZeeAmy]

❤❤❤❤❤ Love Matt. Love Douglas. Agree and disagee with them both on things.

[@keksi6844]

Islam is Rocket Science for these "intellectuals".

[@issdn4023]

​@@keksi6844 If the rocket was an unicorn and the space a lala land then yes

[@euphegenia]

Good. I don’t think there’s a single person on earth with whom I agree 100% of the time.

[@iap-ug3oy]

Ho! Push off ZeeAmy…..Douglas belongs to us in England and we do not care what you think…..

[@djimiwreybigsby5263]

​@@keksi6844how so?

[@ooouze]

Turkish flag is a bit unrelated

[@alexandersims1613]

1:19:30 I'ma skeptic and I believe in much of what Jordan P iterates. I think you have to be a cynic, not a skeptic to believe in the absence of religion. It's such an easy view to take, only things I can see, and feel, and believe, in my own mind, can be real.

[@markemarkatfb]

I think that's a misstatement, skeptics think anything could be real, including gods, fairies and unicorns, but that it only makes sense to live your life as if the things for which there is sound evidence are real.

[@Jim-co5fb]

Religion is for the gullible and the weak

[@laurenedson7625]

@@Jim-co5fb lol.. and those who don’t bother contemplating the bigger questions in life and only live a hedonistic lifestyle takes wisdom and intelligence?

[@steveshirley2250]

​@@laurenedson7625 totally. They act as if they can just create their own reality. They really believe that. Reality will soon come crashing on all of us because of people like him. Some of us will be more ready physically and spiritually than others. On that note, I can think of few people less prepared than Matt D. Nothing worthy of admiration about him.

[@Infinitpossibilities]

Matt is unworldly and not really someone who has much value on the wider stage. I used to watch his “Atheist experience “ shows a few years ago but soon tired of them as they were pretty circular and constantly dwelled over the same ground and pretty run of the mill argumentation. Douglas on the other hand is incredibly worldly and has a wide breadth of experience and knowledge to draw upon. He values deeply the “lived” experience and will visit a country, talk to people before giving his opinion. I agree that this interview really highlighted why Matt has never really broken out of his little bubble as far as viewership goes. I came here to hear Douglas and find Matt is no less underwhelming in his observations and opinions as he was 2yrs ago.

[@dirkmoras]

I feel the same way. Douglas enjoys conflict a bit to much to my taste.

[@Infinitpossibilities]

@@dirkmoras As Christopher Hitchens used to say; “You cannot create light for those in the dark, without creating heat in the process . I believe this to be true.….

[@michelle4688]

A precise observation - MD has grated me for years but I couldn’t quite articulate it outside of his lack of intellectual ability. You’ve captured it well. Glad it’s not just me being disagreeable. He remains elementary, which wouldn’t be a problem, but his smugness about his views and “rightness,” while lacking a worldly experience, is what breaks it for me.

[@markemarkatfb]

@@michelle4688 I think MD is just laser-focussed on the point that there are no sound reasons to believe in God. That's his thing, he's not a philosopher or political observer like Douglas, and never claims to be. He makes no deep claims about any particular moral philosophy or culture, other than to point out that if you base your morality on the literal word of the bible then you believe in some very odd things, many of which are illegal in Western countries such as slavery.

[@steveshirley2250]

​@@markemarkatfbhe is so dishonest in his arguments. He's never read the Bible and it's obvious to anyone who has, in context. Matt has no place in criticizing anything. How can you when you're a moral relativist? No disrespect, but please do yourself a favor and earnestly do some research, it'll be the best thing you ever did.

[@codyburgess7034]

Hahaha first audience question did exactly what Matt told them not to do hahaha

[@thekittenfreakify]

Secularism does not have the defenses against religion it thought it had. Islam is runing a number on europe snd no matter how feverishly you argue against them they will continue with theyr faith. The bullwark christianity provided was what kept many things coherent even with it missteps moving foward.

[@fitzburg63]

Not really - only mormons (one m too many) can believe in this idiotic man-made pagan cult.

[@matthewbazeley2984]

Give an example please, what was made more coherent by Christianity?

[@adcrane]

@@matthewbazeley2984 She can't and won't.

[@greggerypeccary88]

Christianity isn't the answer either. It does nothing to stop the Islamization of Europe.

[@thekittenfreakify]

The calendar for one. The role of the genders.Laws. Morality.

[@verarose6003]

Should I be surprised that Matt is clueless about what is going one around him in the world? Or is that by design. And on purpose to show ignorance to deceive others?

[@mike9512]

I don't see the complaints people have against Matt in this debate. I think it's a Godfather 3 syndrome. Is this debate earth shattering? No, probably not. But the discussion, and Matt specifically, are fine. And he is pretty open about his experience. That doesn't make his opinions invalid. The amount of worldly experience one has does not automatically correlate with their ability to critically analyze what they have seen.

[@clare2401]

Im 42 and ive been listening to Matt for well over 10 years now. As times gone on ive noticed how arrogant, narcissistic and self oriented he is, and this session here proves this 100%. If Matt hasn't experienced it then it hasn't happened, isn't happening and no one else has possibly gone through it either. Douglas has sat here and given several examples how how other countries work, how immigration is affecting them, how disenfranchised young men feel etc etc and Matt has shot the entire conversation down because its not happening to him. Im an atheist and im happy to say that Matts his own god Douglas just seemed bored and disinterested. Ive seen him give far more when hes been in conversation with other people

[@MultipleGrievance]

Very well said....... This is a man who is incapable of seeing life through the eyes of other people. Particularly if they have a different world view then him. You can imagine how susceptible this would make him to group think. This is what makes him So incredibly predictable once you know his politics.

[@mikelipinski7615]

Him and Tracie were the best on the Atheist Experience. Matt is an excellent debater but he gets a bit too into himself I feel. Tracie was incredible because she had a softness, while Matt was the bad cop lol.

[@Jim-co5fb]

No, he just gets fed up with the stupidity of people. Can't blame him.

[@hirendesai8343]

Douglas sure came across listlessly participating !

[@akhilraj6187]

I doubt everyone who label other as narccisstic, dont know why 🤔

[@jeanmullen8327]

As a mentor of mine once said…This generation is experience rich but wisdom poor……experience comes quick but wisdom comes slowly..

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

That applies to.every gen, not _this_ one

[@cy-one]

And it's always an admission of failure, hinting at the fact that the previous generation did not prepare the stage properly.

[@Lipjam]

@25:07 During lengthy negative discussion between two atheists about Christianity, Dillahunty complains because two Christians and a Jew are invited to speak on a panel discussion about atheism. Amazin.

[@sticks1990]

Yea, only the theists should do that. 🙄

[@ezpzlemonsqueezy90]

These men both extensively debate the top religious philosophical thinkers and 'doctors' who think that studying the Bible for ten years makes them a doctor.

[@agnosticmonk4952]

Sorry sir, you missed his point.

[@TheTel]

The confident moral absolutism of Dillahunty, while displaying an incredibly culturally contingent, judeo-christian worldview is where he loses me.

[@TheTel]

He should study anthropology a bit more and dwell on how many of his moral intuitions are truly obvious, objective, or cross-cultural.

[@BrandonSorenson-fb3gg]

You could ask him if he's a moral absolutist. I can be fairly certain I know what his answer would be

[@TheTel]

@@BrandonSorenson-fb3gg He's certainly a moral objectivist, who is also really confident in his current set of moral precepts. That's pretty absolutist to me. I know he wouldn't give an inch on say, women's rights, or the equality of all people, and all sorts of other ideas. I'm sure he'd deny the label and say he's open to change the same way Sam Harris does but in practice they're quite absolutist.

[@joerdim]

​​​​@@TheTel His position is that morality is situational and that objective assessments can be derived from a subjective moral goal. He is not a moral absolutionist. And he surely doesn't adhere to a so-called judeo-christian world view. Lol.

[@MegatronYES]

Peterson parrot says what?

[@EBurstyn]

Just me but did Peterson go from interesting to insufferable?

[@aaabatteries9948]

He has become too political and almost a religious fanatic. At this point i feel like everything he says he attempts to intertwine it with religion and specifically christianity. He's found this niche and is not willing to let it go and frankly its getting a bit tired. I still like Jordan and am very grateful for the things he has done, becoming a voice for struggling men and standing up for free speech and against censorship etc, but i think he's crossing the threshold of radicalism that we expect from a person whom we percieved as level headed and objective.

[@RyanFerrier-p1i]

I agree, his messages are well intentioned, but I feel like other people have influenced him to become what I would perceive as a "cry-baby". His feeble elderly persona worked when he was at the forefront of modern psychology because it gave him an air of wisdom and being a learned man. In recent months I have noticed he comes across as whining more then ever. I don't equate literally crying being a cry-baby, more so his failure to offer productive solutions to problems.

[@EBurstyn]

@@aaabatteries9948 well put. A combination of audience capture and what Steven Bonell aka Destiny refers to as “brain break”. Peterson seems almost stuck in a combative and defensive stance instead of one marked by curiosity and compassion.

[@aaabatteries9948]

@@EBurstyn True, the interview with Destiny was hard for me to watch. The only time Jordan was that combative is when he was put against inquisitive interviewers or when he was in a hostile environment where many people opposed his views and it was his defensive mechanism like a gorrilla pounding his chest to signify he is not afraid. But destiny pulls up alone messy hair and with only pen and paper in the Daily wire studios which for a liberal could be considered a lion's den and Jordan gets angry and lashes out at him without any provocation where as destiny was behaving very rationally. It made me realize that Jordan might need to take a break for a while and come back with a new perspective. To quote Obi Wan: "He's becoming what he swore to destroy".

[@EBurstyn]

@@aaabatteries9948 and he had an overwhelmed weepy period before combat. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to be a public figure much less a controversial one, but he seems to be struggling

[@iguanarapido2552]

As education becomes more and more reachable to humans the decline of religion is inevitable Whatever you like it or not just be prepared for it

[@CourageToB]

communists hope for ages - it s the other way around though

[@kvetaalexander4080]

Talking about weddings. I have been married four times. I have two children and they are not married. One is 49 years old and the other is 41. Amazing 🤔😂🤣👍🇦🇺🇬🇧🇸🇰🇭🇲

[@EffToyz]

People are clearly more stupid today than centuries ago, of course there is Zeus, who else is throwing all these lightnings from the sky?

[@SiggyTheSkyborn]

Thor. Duh.

[@WeKnowYoureThere]

Thor make the thunders go bang bang

[@markemarkatfb]

@@SiggyTheSkyborn I thought Thor was the God of Hammers?

[@joemamma5165]

Thor should wear hammer pants.

[@markemarkatfb]

@@joemamma5165 It's been a while since we invented a new religion. Let's start a church of Thorastrians who all wear hammer pants and chant U Can't Touch This every time there's a thunderstorm.

[@mrwhitestone7461]

17 mins i and I have the impression Douglas has been cautious with his words, trying to impress Matt. They are clearly on different planets with their regard to the value of religion and topically Christianity. Nothing Matt has said so far has been enlightening and can not be encased as true, whereas you could say about Douglas's opinion on the value of Christan values, principles and teachings are rewarding society, in particular here in the UK, Europe and America. Matts story on the 4 Christian apologists having different opinions on slavery is probably a boast on his part, I'd go so far as to suggest a false claim.

[@DocnoXXX]

Just because a belief system might have benefits for a society doesn't make it true.

[@mrwhitestone7461]

@DocnoXXX I agree and no one is saying that, but it is true to say that, in the Western nations Judeo Christian culture has been the underlying value system foundational to our peace and security which everything else derives from. To replace it with atheism or Islam or a socialistic liberal communism would be... you know well the consequences.

[@spikesecho724]

Its already proven that more secular/less religious countries excel in every area of moral superiority and good living. And you're right, I'm sure it's not 4 Christians, it's more like thousands with different views on slavery

[@mrwhitestone7461]

@@spikesecho724 What I love about atheism is its moral relativism. The way everything came from nothing, how lucky we were to make it all up having come from nothing. You think therefore you are, nothing but our own made up morality made us realise that we should be good even though all of our hearts are wicked, full of iniquities.

[@spikesecho724]

@@mrwhitestone7461 Hahaha 😂 theists think everything came from nothing (poof a deity, then that deity poofs everything into existence), atheists say we don't know fully yet, but we're going to keep investigating. Love theist "logic", always good for a laugh 🤣

[@jimetal28]

So Matt doesn't care about history if it's in anyway from Europe or the founding of the states, so neither should you. Bigott. The culture of the day, is what crafts and molds the people in that time, ( then and now ). Who went on to make what was a good time to be alive. Or perhaps like he implied at the start. Maybey I'm just not smart enough to Intuit the meaning and lofty depth of his words.

[@MultipleGrievance]

What you're saying is he's a moral relativest...... Yes. He is.

[@deviouskris3012]

There is no ‘the culture’. Culture shifts and changes constantly. Just because something was considered relevant or acceptable at that time. It doesn’t mean that they are relevant or worthy of retention.

[@paulbrut]

Peterson , is/was an excellent researcher- and before his Benzo- episode which quite literally wiped him out, with serious consequences for his immediate family (you have to admit, thats a terrifying thought) -was a much clearer thinker. The media propelled him into the Limelight, and he tried to be the sage for everything, He Isn't and can never be.He did get incredibly wealthy though, i do not think he minds tha !! - he admits he is a capitalist at heart

[@tabbymoonshine5986]

He's a sad old bigot. And his current "fame" relies on his giving THE most milquetoast advice to vulnerable men, and it was all founded on a lie about the Canadian C-16 Bill and his dishonesty about so called "compelled speech". He's a wealthy wealthy grifter and talks in white noise.

[@spikesecho724]

Yikes, that last girl asking questions....She needs to call-in to Matt sometime

[@willcampbell8829]

She was entertainingly incoherent.

[@andersestes]

I'll rather listen to old Hitchens debates

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: - If those once Demonized - Demonize others - Following footsteps of their Oppressors,no?

[@renewed6250]

I missed where the demonization was.

[@RyanFerrier-p1i]

@@renewed6250 I think the comment refers to pro-Palestine protestors call to end colonialism with Israel representing colonialism. So Palestinians are calling Israelis their oppressors. However, by committing to a war machine built to take land, they were themselves attempting to become the oppressors. They had more than enough money to turn Gaza into the Singapore of their region with the countless billions in aid money sent since 2008. They literally ripped up their own plumbing that carried fresh water into Gaza to make weapons. Have you been living under a rock this past year?

[@OmyKon]

Bring back Andrew Wilson for round 2.

[@steveshirley2250]

Was there a round 1? lol Dillahunty gave up and played a victim.

[@occultaapparentia]

Dillahunty hasn't had a update since 2010.

[@lrvogt1257]

Religion hasn’t changed so neither have the arguments against it.

[@Favar1]

@@lrvogt1257 Yeah, he is a little bit redundant but that because he has refined his point of view and definitions tot he point where you cant really catch him on changing an opinion.

[@tristan7216]

He's EOLed, they don't publish updates for that version any more. Needs to upgrade to Atheist 11 before he starts getting malware.

[@lrvogt1257]

@@tristan7216 Christianity still on v 1.0 circa CE 0.

[@Tony-ol4bt]

Attacking Chistianity today is not brave. Do the same for islam.

[@Jim-co5fb]

I do, it's all bullshit.

[@adcrane]

Pot calling the kettle black?

[@filipess1916]

nah that's still lazy, go after Judaism.

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

😂

[@sally9352]

Us christians see the western world falling apart because chsitianity is being replaced and its going to get worse. Its being replaced with paganism. Without chrsitianity all you have is pagansim.

[@jamesglendenning5745]

Russian poisonings, most inept assassinations ever, or a false flag that achieved all of its goals.

[@sarahnaidoo2953]

Love Douglas Murray because of his stand for Israel. Be blessed Douglas 🙏❤

[@smoochfa973]

That's the only thing i can say is wrong with him.

[@bobbysands5385]

Peterson never said he believes in God. He says he behaves as though God exists. There’s a big difference. So if the premise of your argument is based around the former, your argument is faulty from the start.

[@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878]

Peterson has literally said he believes in the Christian god, he's said he doesn't follow a denomination like Catholicism but he's Christian, he literally told Matt this on stage during a debate so it's not faulty at all, Peterson just hasn't explained what within Christianity he follows it's some self formed version he also hasn't explained why he believes or what kind of entity the god he believes in is, so you criticism is faulty from the start

[@lanahartman8390]

Native American Indians skinned the heads of their enemies how come in the Arab world or the Muslim world people are criticized for cutting other peoples heads off… the native American Indians were fighting for justice and did things in self-defense, well these people are to?

[@brentoncarter4275]

Because Douglas Murray is a professional racist

[@oliverhug3]

Matt says if a word can mean anything to anybody than it means nothing. Yet he thinks a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman including men.

[@blossom357]

I will never understand the people who mock Jordan Peterson for his "what do you mean by 'mean', what do you mean by 'what?'" because..... yes JP sounds like an idiot...... but how do those mocking him not realize they pull those SAME postmodern tactics?

[@cy-one]

@@blossom357 *"but how do those mocking him not realize they pull those SAME postmodern tactics?"* Because they don't. There is no constant shifting of meaning. The separation of sex and gender was pioneered in 1955. By now, it's really nothing new anymore. It's just that the acceptance of both the science behind it and the people affected by it have reached a point that the conversation is in the public forum.

[@zadien8409]

Dilahunty - I'd characterize Jordan's rhetoric broadly as the most secular understanding of what God is anyone has managed to generate - and it just so happens to inspire the lost godless young people of today to be better people. I don't think his ideas are novel - rather, they are an explicit statement of the best version of religious ethos. This secularization of religion is why he believes everyone is actually religious deep down - the simple fact is, we all need axioms at the foundation and given our limits, they have to be established in faith - not reason.

[@markemarkatfb]

Interesting take on Peterson. I think you are right that a consistent, well-constructed set of moral principles do ultimately need to depend on some axioms that are taken for granted. Usually these are very simple such as "don't do harm unless protecting the greater good" or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It's Peterson who seems to feel the need to tie the complex and contradictory mythology of iron age tribes into the mix, many of which are borrowed from even older civilisations such as the Epic of Gilgamesh. Peterson has an unhelpful knack for making simple points more complicated than they need to be. If the bible was intended as God's way to describe how to live a moral life, then the number of inconsistencies and the endless schisms in the church show that it's a pretty poor effort, especially considering that God could just sit down with everyone for a Q&A session to make things crystal clear.

[@capecarver]

I can't remember when I've ever seen such a mismatch of intellects. This discussion was a waste of bandwidth.

[@hubrisnaut]

I don't know about the Earth, but experiments had shown the universe is flat.

[@user-rs4ci3fn2d]

How does Matt get to be invited in same stage as Douglas? Matt should tie Douglas shoes and go back to his lil bubble.

[@BrandonSorenson-fb3gg]

Gotta love people who live vicariously through other people's intellect because they can't actually grasp the concepts themselves

[@EternalGaze8]

Seriously? You have no idea what you’re talking about. Perhaps you should listen to some like minds that break down how DM is wrong on many fronts.

[@MostDecentNA]

@@BrandonSorenson-fb3ggPersonally I’ve watched a fair bit of Matt and I’ve found him to be rather myopic. I used to think more in line with him until I started traveling the world and living in developing nations. Places where children live on the streets and cartels control towns. Yet in spite of that, there are still true believers in Christianity who act as a bulwark against the slide into chaos. The longer I did so, the more I found myself shrugging off my atheism like a Hot Topic trench coat I thought was really cool in adolescence. I’ve been in the presence of sinister people, felt places where the very air is thick with corruption, and I’ve found genuine goodness and light. I see Matt as someone stubbornly clinging to his platform and the views he’s cultivated in pleasant, safe spaces of air conditioned intellectualism, whereas Douglas’s views have gradually changed as he’s been confronted with the worst and the best of humanity.

[@CourageToB]

​@@BrandonSorenson-fb3ggna, he s absolutely right.

[@jonnymurgatroyd856]

I enjoy Doug but don't see much value in this pairing. Matt's got nothing to offer.

[@CourageToB]

exactly right.

[@HIIIBEAR]

Really? Do you have evidence for a god?

[@HIIIBEAR]

@@CourageToBprove a god exists then!

[@CourageToB]

@@HIIIBEAR i assume that you are asking for a natural science proof?

[@HIIIBEAR]

@@CourageToB if you have a method that reliably differentiates imagination from reality then please present it.

[@matthewhodges7444]

The secular "community"? Lol. Is that the geniuses at r/atheism?

[@markemarkatfb]

It's next door to the "don't believe in unicorns" community, just before the "don't believe in fairies" community. You can't miss them.

[@steveshirley2250]

"community" is right. I can see no binding principle but nihilism

[@markemarkatfb]

@@steveshirley2250 That is a good point, and in fact I know several atheists who attend church not for any of the religious aspects (because they hardly believe a word of it) but for the community. It's going to be interesting to see what happens as (presumably) the trend of increasing atheism continues, it does feel like there is a gap left in terms of civic community. Obviously some communities do exist such as local political parties or support groups for new parents etc, but there doesn't seem to be any civic community for a lot of people to join that would take the place that churches used to fill.

[@cottawalla]

@@markemarkatfb I'm an atheist and the communities that I inhabit include land care groups, animal rescue groups, open source software development groups. Others join voluntary emergency services groups, all kinds of rehabilitation and support groups (those that don't proselytize), every kind of special interest group: cultural, technology, business, entertainment. There are many social groups that aren't based on religion.

[@markemarkatfb]

@@cottawalla Yes I complete support and applaud the vital and fulfilling role that special interest groups provide. I suppose I was just wishing for something similar but with a much broader purpose of just giving the whole community the sense of belonging and coming together to help each other out. A non-special interest group!

[@davidabulafia7145]

You need to ask the Jewish rabbis when you are talking about the Torah/bible

[@TerryBramow]

Love. Douglas murray❤

[@davidabulafia7145]

If you believe in nothing, you will be in anything.

[@liltroublemaker1230]

„When granted everything, you can‘t do anything“ - Satoru Gojo, JJK

[@robertmcclintock8701]

( ・_ゝ・) The human body is burly, gnarly and surly like a fractal.

[@ToolinAroundTools]

Matt has faith in gender identity

[@donaldmartinez1764]

wtf is faith is gender identity? Gender identity is just a way to describe oneself based on masculinity and femininity.. calling that faith sounds dumb af..

[@NearlySane101]

​@donaldmartinez1764 except that Matt thinks anyone saying they are a woman should be allowed to be thought of as that in terms of sex based divides. It's thinking that gender is real rather than sex. It's just as much a faith as believing in souls.

[@donaldmartinez1764]

@@NearlySane101 I don’t get what you mean we as society determine what it means to be a man or woman.. we know trans and gay people exist that’s just a fact.. it’s a well known phenomenon.. spirits pretty much can’t be found by pretty much anyone except religious people who claim they see spirits..

[@donaldmartinez1764]

@@NearlySane101 I don’t get what you mean we as society determine what it means to be a man or woman.. we know trans and gay people exist that’s just a fact.. it’s a well known phenomenon.. spirits pretty much can’t be found by pretty much anyone except religious people who claim they see spirits..

[@NearlySane101]

@@donaldmartinez1764 drivel. Sex matters. Your faith in gender is like believing in a soul

[@centerfield6339]

Matt thinks debate tricks like Gish Gallops are bad, but also saying that Christians who are willing to disagree in a debate are silly - i.e. a debate trick.

[@timkavna_art]

'because its not me' - Matt is shallow.

[@thomasvladimirr]

Been very impressed with Jordan ,but lately he has morphed into a Christian preacher ,my interest has dissolved , now his like a nice kind Uncle ,but not as impressive

[@vesterwolfe2420]

The best debate humptydumpty had was with Andrew Wilson I laughed my ass off.

[@steveshirley2250]

I've yet to see him debate yet. That time he didn't even try, just played the victim

[@dancollins4058]

Matt couldn't handle Andrew Wilson without rage quitting. All because he showed how demented his views are.

[@ChrisHamberg-ok2cz]

3:00 They aren't, “labels,” degenerates. They are CATEGORIES.

[@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen]

👏🙂

[@thomasvladimirr]

There is only a vacuum for the dreamers ,realists not really

[@chocopuddingcup83]

Once again, this is something I greatly disagree with Douglas on and agree with Matt: there is no void left over by religion's absence. Religion inserted itself into our culture and society where there was nothing to begin with. Religion is a group of stories about how reality works except they're either half-truths or made-up fables. Now that religion is slowly disappearing (or being neutered) that gap is being filled by actual reality. We need to now actually think about how to build a good and just society without relying on religion as being a basis for our morals and ethics (which it clearly isn't). We're children realizing that big brother is not actually there to look after us and it's time to grow up, now.

[@robiszabo903]

Following your last statement, you don't get children that miraculously grow up. You get Lord of the flies.

[@chocopuddingcup83]

@@robiszabo903 Incorrect. We don't need religion to be moral. Ethical/moral philosophy has overtaken religion in this regard for centuries, now.

[@stacypastry2440]

​@marcusaxel3425 tldr but I'll just say I think people need community. The people that they actually see in real life, neighbors, family, whatever. It's very worrisome seeing so many young children bent over a device instead of interacting with others

[@rexrambo7686]

Islam is coming, they will fill the void.. I don't have to believe it, but Christianity is part of my cultural heritage, and I posit it'd be a darker world without it.

[@JackWard66]

"Truth is that which comports with reality" seems shockingly like the kind of conversations Douglas Murray is having now about Trans Activism. I notice Dillahunty does a lot of sidestepping the issue.

[@Kabacisdead]

Matt is too self absorbed to see how his edgy freshman year philosophy student's level of atheist argumentation is failing to address the complex issue of the god shaped hole in modern culture.

[@ErinMobley-c8j]

Spoken like someone not intelligent enough to understand the things Matt says.

[@CourageToB]

YES!!! U so express what i am thinking, too!!!

[@Kabacisdead]

@@ErinMobley-c8j Thank you for your constructive feedback, I will listen again and check if I missed that profound meaning of Matt's arguments. Now if I could return the favor - You too sound like an edgy philosophy student after reading 2 pages of Kant and listening to a podcast about Rationalism, so now you feel like levitating above the mortal plebs.

[@twowardrobeswardrobes1536]

Where is the god shaped hole?

[@ErinMobley-c8j]

@@twowardrobeswardrobes1536 there isn't one. its ridiculous. Just another excuse to believe something they can't prove to be the case.

[@blade20001]

If you can't integrate to another country you are moving too do not move there. Simple islam moves to Islamic countries. Don't move to Christians or other religious countries if you can't integrate cause other countries don't want your way or religion.

[@stacypastry2440]

If Islam wasn't so precious about the prophet it wouldn't be seen as such a threat of extremism. Islam loves to play the victim

[@haidner]

Reform Judaism absolutely DOES require a belief in G-d.

[@samanthabiatch6217]

It literally doesn't. My parents are Reform rabbis.

[@mike9512]

I think Murray does not understand something about people and how they are "drowning out" the reasonable. I believe the people he is talking about are much more capable of reason than he gives them credit. Polarization is basically baked into the very framework of social media, regardless of the viewpoints of the user. Many apps have character limits, and even if they don't, short statements are the norm. In fact, I was recently bullied just for making my comments "too long". But most people do not have a platform to engage in this stuff without social media, so we go on twitter, youtube comments, etc...and engage. But the system isn't setup for the kind of dialogue that Murray wants. Very few people are going to read lengthy posts, if they are even allowed, so people are then forced to make short comments, that by their nature, are going to be generalized and perpetuate the kind of extremes he is talking about. But what else are people supposed to do? I'm not going to get the chance to engage with an atheistic Texan who has a background in Evangelical Christianity in my everyday life. But I might have a thought on it. Is it wrong to share that thought? I think many of the people that Murray thinks are trying to drown out the reasonable would be very capable of offering a more well rounded, middle viewpoint on subjects if given the opportunity to do it in real life.

[@broark88]

IQ is one of the best substantiated and most predictive metrics in psychology, so it's definitely measuring something; it can also explain disparities that are usually ascribed to moral failings such as prejudice or selective treatment. IQ research doesn't give us solutions in and of itself but does offer critical explanatory power for social phenomena so that we can then compose real solutions to social problems. For instance, if we could show that the over-represented proportion of black prisoners in America narrows to near zero when corrected for IQ, it tells us the criminal justice system doesn't need the kind of profound reform it would if such a discrepancy could be explained purely by subjective racial bias; and that by so reforming it we wouldn't be solving the perceived problem but creating new problems or making others far worse. Making sound public policy requires informed premises, for which IQ research is very valuable, despite its implications have no bearing on individuals who could be anywhere along the bell curve.

[@Panhandlebluegrass1986]

Uh what? You have no likes because you don’t make sense.

[@broark88]

@@Panhandlebluegrass1986 Likes don't matter. More importantly, what doesn't make sense? Perhaps I could clarify. KZbin comments are not exactly the best place for a dissertation.

[@robertmcclintock8701]

(　｀□´) natural selection is the character flaw in evil that is integrity is more important than life otherwise evolution is tragic circumstances with nothing intelligent happening. Almost everyone survive until they reproduce. Nothing is getting selected except for the character flaw in evil. I found a replacement for the character flaw in evil that I liked but God makes me forget things that will cause me trouble.

[@nickcarey4443]

I thought this was gonna be about Douglas counseling Matt on how to finally be honest and just come out to the world

[@tabbymoonshine5986]

Oh you think Douglas as a gay man would be attracted to a woman like Matt's GORGEOUS partner. She's a woman. Cry about it transphobe. She's also hotter than any poor woman who suffers through any connection to you, bigot.

[@pennymarsh1671]

I can’t understand why anyone would debate Jordan Peterson. He’s just big word salad

[@travisstotts1107]

Word salad to those who can not fallow his words.

[@Panhandlebluegrass1986]

Na, maybe you just don’t comprehend. He’s popular for a reason…you must be a liberal.

[@deviouskris3012]

@@Panhandlebluegrass1986Jordan is a classic liberal. So your comment really says more about the fact that you have fallen prey to the vagueness than JP enacts. Which leads to people like yourself manufacturing a belief that is contradictory to what was said.

[@glennanderson8981]

Matt is so woke... he wants a one world government and he believes everything CNN has to say....

[@ezpzlemonsqueezy90]

Do you believe that a mystical supreme being talks to you directly on a two way radio in your mind?

[@whydontyoustfu]

You don't have to agree with his each and every position

[@deviouskris3012]

Christians want a one universe government, with an overlord that demands complete subjugation under threat of eternal punishment for finite crimes. Plus you believe everything a book written by men, says. Despite it carrying hundreds of contradictory passages and concepts.

[@glennanderson8981]

@@ezpzlemonsqueezy90 No I am an atheist, I used to watch Matt on the Atheist Experience all the time. It pissed me off when it went all woke with the atheism + movement. Matt helped lead the charge with other nut bars. Too bad, Matt is caught up in the woke crap.

[@ezpzlemonsqueezy90]

@@glennanderson8981 what woke crap are you talking about? Making society safer for people who are more likely to be murdered by ignorant fucks? You mean kind of like that?

[@40pianos]

I really can't listen to these guys anymore, nor the others like them. They've somehow acquired status that I don't believe they deserve. It's not that what they have to say isn't sometimes compelling, but they're everywhere and their behaviour is modified depending on who they're talking to. If it's somebody they recognize as having an intellect as formidable as their own, they tend to be gracious and self effacing. But in different circumstances, when they're facing a zealot who has no knowledge of dialectics, they're hostile, intolerant and dismissive. They're professional talkers whose greatest contribution is more blah blah blah.

[@MrTheswagcity]

true i had no idea douglas murray was so ignorant towards catholicism until i watched the beginning of this, had to stop.

[@fitzburg63]

@@MrTheswagcity truth hurts

[@MrTheswagcity]

@@fitzburg63 lmao you got some audacity don't you have a genocide to tend to jew?

[@davidabulafia7145]

Humanism is defined by man, and can be changed by man, unlike a God defined morality, that cannot be changed by man.

[@whydontyoustfu]

And who defines what god has defined?

[@deviouskris3012]

Slavery was changed by man. The place of women in the church was changed by man. Even now, part of the church is moving god into non-binary. The entire Christian faith is a history of a religion being changed by men. Be it Paul, Constantine, Martin Luther, John Smith etc.

[@lynandrews4160]

I am concerned that Matt isn't sufficiently informed to b speak his mind in the public domain. he strikes me as naive and cold.

[@sharonreed6068]

Matt is actually an insufferable boring secular humanist

[@allenandrews2380]

I think of God like this. Make a list of all the things you can think of that are eternal and out of your control. Now imagine you need a word to express all of those things at once, because you don t feel like having list off all of them eveeytime you have a conversation. God.

[@flourlesscake3143]

The IQ question is very easy to answer. Ask a mystic! There are many dimensions of intelligence beyond the one that is “useful” to being a cog in capitalist society. This is a weakness of Intellectuals. They mostly speak out of memory, literacy and linguistic skills. Loved hearing the conference and thank you for publishing it on YT .

[@anthonythompson1680]

Since this debate Murray has lurched much further to the right and Matt is more progressive than ever. On IQ get the average westerner in the outback with Aborigines born in the outback and the westerner would look and feel very low IQ in that environment. Basically it's all about adaption to one's environment.

[@argonthesad]

When was this talk?

[@anthonythompson1680]

@@argonthesad About 7 or 8 years ago because Matt was married to his first wife he mentions.

[@sharonreed6068]

Ok we get it Matt, you are too intelligent to believe in anything Good grief man, you will be the first to capitulate

[@runningraven]

He believes in SOME things! For example that men are women and vice versa, just because they apparently have a sexed soul no one can see. 🤷🏻‍♀️💙

[@sharonreed6068]

@@runningraven that is exactly my point

[@ladybug591]

Let the atheist man reveal what islamics believe and have done over the last 1400 years and let us compare the modern-day Christian to the modern day islamist believer. Many people like to have the ethics and morals that they learnt from being a Christian, that cannot be denied. The age old 10 commandments are a good guide in general. Without the teaching of such things, which is what has happened with secular people then we now witness the screaming adults having tantrums growing up in the secular world without guidance and not even civic guidance. The majority of people have benifited from basic Christian beliefs and always will.

[@jaydeejohnson7]

While Christianity has positively influenced many individuals, it’s not the sole source of ethical and moral guidance. Other religions, including Islam, have their own ethical teachings that have guided billions over centuries. Moreover, secular societies also foster ethical behavior through principles like human rights and justice. It’s not accurate to attribute negative behaviors observed in society solely to secularism or any particular religion. Ethics and morals are complex constructs influenced by a multitude of factors, including but not limited to religious beliefs. Therefore, it’s essential to respect the diversity of belief systems and recognize their potential in guiding ethical and moral behavior in our secular society. Ethics and morals are a global heritage, not the monopoly of any single belief system.

[@pctombs]

I looked up the poll done on British Muslims regarding homosexuality. It appears that they only polled Muslims residing in poorer, conservative areas, thus not representing the views of Muslims as a whole in the country. You’d probably get similar results if you did this with conservative Christians in the US. Remember that the Republican Party platform still includes undoing gay marriage. Religious extremism should be combatted on all fronts but assuming that it’s just the religion and not also factors of environment that shape behavior is misguided.

[@philmitchell91]

There's a difference between wanting to ban gay marriage and wanting the act of homosexuality to be made illegal wouldn't you say? Also Muslims in Britain are largely on the lower scale of the ladder when it comes to wealth so I don't quite understand your point. In my view (and I think you'll agree if you're a fellow atheist?) is that the more you subscribe to the tenets of religion, any religion, the more you hold on to them the more conservative and reactionary you or your 'community' is. I'm always intrigued when the comparison to American Christianity and the US Republican party is bought up because I sense it's always an American who does this but I don't think it's always a helpful point to make. Again, I'm not American and maybe you are but if you are, do American secularists/atheists go so out of their way to point the socio-economic reasons behind conservatism in America? Or are they more likely to point out that fundamentalist Christianity being a cause of poverty in and of itself? Having said this, I'm guessing the organised religious right in America aren't short of money anyhow, nor Republic politicians? I should say in context that I come from a Muslim family in the UK, having been bought up in a large community that is very conservative. I know full well as a minority and with some sense of history that people of my immigrant background when they came to this country were largely secular. They weren't fans of fundamentalist religion as well as being opposed to the racists in Britain. What's depressed me over the years is not so much conservative reactionary Muslims being conservative reactionaries but seeing non Muslim secularists/atheists uncritically conflate fighting racism with protecting Islam as a protected ideology and assuming that poverty amongst British Muslims can be reduced to the wider racist or Islamophobic society. In the end it would have been better to have seen British liberals and leftists who claim to understand and sympathise with minorities to have consistently shown to stick to their principles of being opposed to religious intimidation of any kind as well as combating racism instead of, in my view to be so lopsided in trying to ''understand'' Muslim sentiment. Otherwise the likes of Douglas Murray who speak openly about problems of integration and social cohesion are also the ones who don't have the most savoury views on dealing with it. And that's a problem.

[@pctombs]

@@philmitchell91 Hi fellow atheist! Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am indeed an American who grew up in a deeply conservative Christian community, so I value your perspective. A few thoughts: My experience with reactionary Christians in this country has shown me that many of them are not simply against gay marriage - they would be happy to criminalize queerness if given the chance. The cultural conditions here don't really allow them to express that openly at this time, and I suspect the social consequences for a conservative Christian being that hateful would be worse than for a Muslim in the UK who has only been in the country for a generation or two. Here's my reasoning for this: most conservative Christians in the US have been here for a long time and are quite integrated with the community at large. Considering this, it's quite disturbing how reactionary they still are. My impression of Muslims in the UK is that many of them are immigrant families that are in ghettos, insulated communities, which is not uncommon for recent immigrants that are low income (please correct me if I'm wrong). The criticism I have for the way Murray is citing the poll is his insinuation that Muslims = Gay Haters, when what the poll is actually showing is Conservative Poor Muslims = Gay Haters. I compare this with the US, where Muslims are more accepting of homosexuality than white Evangelicals, according to Pew Research. I'm curious about the views of Muslims in the UK who are not in these insulated conservative communities. I suspect they would be more like the Muslims in the US, who seem to be in a better economic position. I think the tendency of the American left to defend Islam is a reaction to the extreme Islamophobia that followed 9/11. As leftists became more educated on imperialism and the mistreatment of Muslim countries by the US, it became clear that we created the conditions for Islamist extremism to prosper. Now, I agree with you that there has been an overcorrection. I think many on the left falsely believe that Islam is somehow less dangerous than Christianity and sort of give it a pass. This probably is because Muslims are on the whole more marginalized than Christians. I agree with other atheists on the danger of religion, but I don't see evidence that Islam is uniquely evil, which is the message I get from folks like Murray and Sam Harris. I would say that poverty can be a risk factor for reactionary thought here, and I don't think that fundamentalism leads to poverty. It's easy to scapegoat immigrants or any other marginalized group when you're suffering under an unequal system. You are absolutely correct that the religious right and Republicans enjoy plenty of funding from the capital class here, as their politics of hierarchy and return to tradition serve the interests of the rich nicely. I'd love to hear more of your perspective on the situation in the UK, and what are your thoughts on the tensions being felt there?

[@iandevelin8183]

Rather engaging

[@yeti9127]

One area where I can’t watch Douglas talking about is his 1000% support for Israel. Other than that he sounds fine.

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: - If a States policies are - Starvation,Death Camps,Gassing/White Phosphorus,Pogroms,Ethnic Cleansing,etc - Has the right to exist?

[@yeti9127]

@@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings I think the idea of right to exist depends on who you ask. If you ask Douglas, he would say No, they lost that right because of the October 7 attack by Hamas. If you respond by saying, will it not expand regional war and a possible WWIii, he would say, tough!

[@DocnoXXX]

​@@yeti9127 I think he was was referring to Israel. All misinformed hyperbole, of course

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: - If those once Demonized - Demonize others - Following footsteps of their Oppressors,no?

[@richardcompton2639]

Precisely the reason why I do listen to Douglas

[@Frederer59]

Boy you're slumming it, Douglas. Finding it hard to get a gig? 🇨🇦

[@timvella1817]

Who are you? Never heard of you.

[@brianwolthers2762]

I am pretty sure this is an old debate that's just re released.

[@Coko_Ono]

@@brianwolthers2762it is old. Deceiving title. 😕

[@philwalkercuriousmind]

Jordan Peterson didnt say Communist Russia was Secular Humanist. He said it was atheist then it was yourself Matt who said it wasnt secular humanist. Two different things. It was as if you were imposing the idea that Jordan had said Russia had attempted to impose your ideal of secular humanism youre promoting now and failed and now carrying this on. In fact you said that you could explain ' in two minutes' why your secular humanism in atheist Russia would work but never did this. I think this would have been an interesting challenge. Also i think on that interview Jordan got muddled as im sure hes well aware many people give up smoking by many means but i think probably did say that the only drug which did it was one which the mystical experience induced was paramount to success. I do think Jordan wasnt on best form that interview many years ago but i find Matts reflection on it i see quite often to be almost pure propaganda. Small lies and distortions as if somehow he had this incredible upper hand taking apart Jordans whole narrative which wasnt true at all.

[@Giby86]

Bull. Dillahunty said that there's never been a secular humanist government, and Peterson replied with "the soviets". So yes, he ABSOLUTELY did say that Communist Russia was secular humanist. Let's see if you apologize for lying now.

[@timvella1817]

Fight fight fight

[@Giby86]

@@timvella1817 There's no fight to be had. He was lying, I called him out. What's left is admission and penance. I doubt we'll see either.

[@philwalkercuriousmind]

@@Giby86 @Giby86 hmmm certainly dont think i need to apologise for lying but i could have been mistaken but im not sure if i want to rewatch. However do you not think its fair to atleast assume that Peterson knows that people give up smoking without a mystical experience so therefore give some benefit of the doubt to him obviously meaning a chemical. I 100 % stand by the claim that Matt has reflected on the interview in a very myopic manner. He referred on one of the pangburn videos of somehow getting to the keystone to destroy all of petersons arguments when Peterson said this about him not actually being atheist. Id call that utter bull. It just wasnt explored more and I also think that Matt would not have been able to explain why a secular humanist society would not have been able to explain in two minutes as he said would not have the same fate as communist Russia. He also said on pangburn how he called Sam Harris after the interview to say what had happened. Almost as if to say in this interview Peterson was somehow totally falling apart but such as never the case. It was simply just an interview where he admittedly wasn't on best form but certainly not one where Matt apparently had the better of him which it seems very clear in fact even a few times on Pangburn literally in the last month even he's trying to say. Little snippets popping up about an interview over five years ago and his reflection on it. Whereas I have some level of respect for Matt I think he's simply not as smart as Peterson or people he aligns with like Sam Harris. He doesn't have the same ability to reflect and go deeper. There's a level of a shallowness where he speaks deliberately avoiding giving meaning as he knows he'll be tripped up. Ill never forget when he was asked why he wouldnt through Sam off a stage . His reason was because biologically in evolution it wouldnt be a good thing to do or something along those lines. I mean really ? Im sure thats biologically true but he obviously had a personal reason. eg well he's my friend and I value life etc. Ill also add that even if I made a mistake in my memory the fact remains that Matt is maintaining his idea of atheism which he calls secular humanist is somehow totally distinct from communist Russia. They would both be non God systems obviously. He emphasises in this interview maintaining his ideal would somehow turn out totally different but there's no reason to think why. It's atheism with a new name. Saying Russia was secular humanist can surely just be understood by Peterson saying it was atheist and that being the fundamental issue. Like Mao China or the Palpot regime. He's just using different language to frame Peterson and make out it was all a bit different to promote his atheist framework. That being my central point. To even distinguish atheism from secular humanism is just to distance from the failures of atheism of the past. They did that but it will be different if we do it this way but the issue of failure being no God as the hypothesis. His rhetorical distance may be fair bit it's exactly the same as any Christian saying that the fundamentalist aspect were people doing it wrong. A very common argument and to some degree a fair one. John Lennox did his own John Lennon imagine line as a joke showing how easily it can be reversed. Imagine there's no atheism it's easy if you try..... No Palpot No Stalin. No Mao China. I'm not saying I agree fully with the religion narrative only that I find something a bit shallow in Matt's narrative, I don't think he has such deep reflection and he is absolutely using myopic recall of an old interview to promote his atheist agenda and views as somehow clearly superior.

[@Giby86]

​@@philwalkercuriousmind "hmmm certainly dont think i need to apologise for lying but i could have been mistaken but im not sure if i want to rewatch." You do need to apologize. You are mistaken. I did rewatch. I'm right and you're wrong. It would be nice if you admitted it. It would signal that you're a honest actor in this conversation. "However do you not think its fair to atleast assume that Peterson knows that people give up smoking without a mystical experience so therefore give some benefit of the doubt to him obviously meaning a chemical." First of all, that's not what we were talking about. Changing the topic doesn't show me that you're intellectually honest, I have to say. Second, we don't need to assume. He clearly says that he DOESN'T think so. It's absurd, so you want to rationalize it, but that's the fact. I'm willing to do him the favor of taking what he says at face value, why aren't you? "I 100 % stand by the claim that Matt has reflected on the interview in a very myopic manner. He referred on one of the pangburn videos of somehow getting to the keystone to destroy all of petersons arguments when Peterson said this about him not actually being atheist." [And all the following rant] Dude. I understand that we've all been conditioned to consider everything like a pissing contest, but I do not care one bit what you think of Dillahunty or Peterson. Or rather, I could care, but first of all you have to show me that you're intellectually honest, and quite frankly, you don't seem to be. I'm not defending what Dillahunty is saying. I'm just pointing out that what YOU said is not accurate. Either you're lying, or you're mistaken. If you're lying, the conversation ends here. If you're mistaken you have a choice: either you admit it and possibly apologize, or you double down. If you double down, you prove you're not intellectually honest. Right now, you're at this stage. So again: if you want to get to a more interesting part of this exchange, that's the prerequisite. Do what you must. I'll just add one last comment. "Ill also add that even if I made a mistake in my memory the fact remains that Matt is maintaining his idea of atheism which he calls secular humanist is somehow totally distinct from communist Russia. They would both be non God systems obviously. He emphasises in this interview maintaining his ideal would somehow turn out totally different but there's no reason to think why. It's atheism with a new name. Saying Russia was secular humanist can surely just be understood by Peterson saying it was atheist and that being the fundamental issue. Like Mao China or the Palpot regime. He's just using different language to frame Peterson and make out it was all a bit different to promote his atheist framework. That being my central point. To even distinguish atheism from secular humanism is just to distance from the failures of atheism of the past. They did that but it will be different if we do it this way but the issue of failure being no God as the hypothesis." You're, again, 100% wrong here. If you can't conceptualize that atheism and secular humanism are two completely SEPARATE concepts, you don't get to accuse anyone of being too shallow and superficial. So to recap: what I expect from your next reply is to satisfy the prerequisite of admitting that you were wrong and mischaracterized what Peterson had said. Once you do that, we can discuss the rest. I would also appreciate succint replies instead of verbose word salads but I'll leave that up to you.

[@valentinogeorgievski]

Stop whining and get to the point allready...

[@beerman204]

Dillahunty is a typical atheist who takes it for granted he represents adult rational thinking and all religious talk is fantasy.... in his mind it's all so simple, and yet to me Peterson represents full bodied humanity in all its renditions, and I know exactly what Dillahunty will say that leaves me cold and thirsting for something more....

[@philwalkercuriousmind]

Yes hear you.

[@Giby86]

I don't think that "full bodied humanity in all its renditions" (whatever that means) would waste time seriously asking what "you" and "is" mean.

[@WooliteMammoth]

who cares how you feel about what Matt says? Does that make things more or less true? Peterson says a bunch of nonsense that elicits warms feelings in you?

[@LordBLB]

"typical atheist" You mean extremely logical and requiring that facts are REAL facts and not watered down with mystical talk? JP, as smart as he is, gets cornered a LOT when confronted with people like Dillahunty and fills the void with complicated / vague language in order to give the appearance that he has a solid answer. Whenever JP says, "metaphysical / metaphorical substrate" it really means, "I have no good answer and would rebut what you just said. So instead of admitting that I don't know, I'm going to fill this gap with jargon and hope no one notices, or doesn't understand what I meant." JP reminds me of that one kid in grade school that thinks they know everything. Not to mention, JP's manager apparently told him to NEVER go on stage with Dillahunty again. He worried about his image.

[@spikesecho724]

That's an exceptionally generous (and weirdly worshippy) view of Peterson..... he spews pure trash

[@theepsteindiaries]

You can see they are both imagining the other in drag

[@MB-vu3ow]

Does your thumbnail characterize your character?

[@deviouskris3012]

Sounds like classic projection.

[@tristan7216]

You a-hole now I can't unsee it 🤣🤣🤣

[@kbeetles]

Oh, no! Not Dillahunty's smug face for an hour and 44 minutes!

[@olliejj6965]

Douglas is not authentic on the subject of faith: you cannot ask people to “at least” engage in how we got to where we are, if you don’t really try and be a real part of the religion.

[@leslielearnorth]

How do you know

[@willcampbell8829]

Most people are well and truly 'groomed' into their religion...As they acquire the ability to reason they tend to set about making reality fit 'the truth' they've been spoon fed since birth.

[@tattooman3603]

Absolutely you can. It is plain and simple that Christian principles and beliefs are the foundation of North America society, brought us our laws, policies, and morals. As best as possible, generations have tried to pass that on to the next generation, but advances in technology, science, and communications have fuzzied those beliefs to the point that they are easily questioned or abandoned. Atheism is on the rise, BUT I can still discuss, honestly, with anyone the fact that the country was based on, and built on Christian values which "got us to where we are." Atheist or Christian will agree with that, although they may have very differing opinions on the truth of what created those values.

[@richardbeaumont7960]

@@tattooman3603the USA was not built on Christian principles. It was built on Enlightenment principles. The framers of the Constitution were fans of Hobbes, Hume, Locke. Christian principles created Medieval Europe. Witch burning, feudalism, divine right of Kings, and flat earthism.

[@dauntlessRRs]

I can't stand the way MATT DILLAHUNTY has to introduce his Religious Faith of Atheism into everything and keep pretending he's superior because he denies his Atheism is a Religious Faith.

[@brianwolthers2762]

The people to distrust the most on questions of deep meaning such as these are the ones that announce loudly they have the answer. On both sides.

[@13shadowwolf]

The chip on your shoulder, is the size of a small house. I can't stand the absolute Arr0gance it takes to try and convince other people a supernatural entity exists, and that IT "loves" us, but only if we act in certain ways.

[@deviouskris3012]

Religion requires a prescription to some supernatural belief. Atheists do no such thing. Hence not a religion.

[@jonstrickland4848]

How is it a religious faith (which is redundant, really)?

[@FlamingMuffinWhore]

Douglas has yet to impress me with anything he says. It seems like he intentionally leaves details out, kind of like a Shapiro or Peterson tbh

[@adriel6421]

Luke 18:9-14 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Psalm 14:2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures 1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. Romans 3:19-26 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. John 3:15-18 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Romans 5:1-2 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Galatians 1:3-5 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[@johncarter1150]

You spake nonsense.

[@DavidWhitehead-t4n]

Listen to Bart Erhman

[@adriel6421]

@@DavidWhitehead-t4n "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 1:17-31 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." - Romans 10:17 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen." - 1 Timothy 6:20-21 "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."- 1 Corinthians 3:18-19 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." - Romans 16:17-18 "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight" - Matthew 11:25-26

[@lomaxdesigns1716]

Haven't watched a single second, but I get the feeling I'm going to be annoyed by this. Both of these people I've formally had great respect for. Dillahunty lost me at least half a decade ago, mainly for his terrible pro-abortion arguments, Murray more recently with his Israel shilling. My guess is I'll side with Murray on 60% of the issues, Dillahunty 20% and then be irritated by both of them for the remaining 20%. Let's watch and see.

[@lomaxdesigns1716]

Well 50 minutes in and I'm bored to tears.

[@imbecilicGenius-hn3jo]

This was the emptiest conversation by supposed intellectuals that I've heard at 41 i'm giving up.

[@Panhandlebluegrass1986]

Must be a liberal since you abandoned Israel.

[@esamshamoay303]

I can sense why Dauglas Murray is not good enough today in his talk. It's because he talking with a new eithiest who always lies about his debates with Christian apologetics. Then he leaves and starts his circle of lies that he destroyed his opponent when in fact he was cornered.

[@mapsdot9223]

Dillahunty cosplaying as an intellectual is the funniest thing on the Internet. Atheist = narcissist

[@SpongeGod-YawehPants]

Your comment is confusing. Atheist just means lacking theism. A is a prefix that means without or lacking. So technically if you don't believe in vishnu, you would be a-theistic towards that god. Where are you getting narcissism from? Are you a Muslim or something who's offended that people don't believe in Allah or whatever? People on the internet are weird lmao people throw around the word atheist as if it means villain when all it means is someone isn't convinced of the claim that a specific god or gods exist

[@ezpzlemonsqueezy90]

I don't have a word to describe my disbelief in Santa clause. Its just the negation of your silly belief in sky fairy supreme overlord lol

[@danoprea3066]

@@SpongeGod-YawehPants Atheism is just dogmatism without god/gods. Atheists don't seem to be able to comprehend that. Dillahunty is a prime example.

[@johnnybgood7442]

Atheist = “I don’t know” Theist = “I don’t have evidence, but god dun it” You = clearly the atheist is the narcissist Me = 🙄

[@SpongeGod-YawehPants]

@johnnybgood7442 this is similar to how I feel. Here are some common examples I have seen Theist: I'm convinced X god exists Atheist: I'm not convinced of the claim that X god exists Agnostic: I don't know if its possible to know whether or not X god exists. Its worth noting that gnosticism and agnosticism are, by definition, terms that refer to one's knowledge on a topic, not their belief in that topic. Anti theist: god X and god Y are mutually exclusive in their claims, such as both claiming only one can exists. Therefore i can adopt a burden of proof by utilizing the evidence of their own holy books and traditions which make the mutually exclusive claims to make my own claim that either 1 or more do not exist. Deist: I believe in a god or godlike power behind the universe but I do not believe it is human like or involved in the affairs of humans Utilitarian religious: I do not believe an actual god or magical deity exists, but if enough people are convinced that it exists, they will act in a way which makes the ruling class more effective at managing and growing the population in a productive manner due to the cohesion that the religious structure and interconnected communities that this indoctrination provides

[@travp959]

Just my opinion. But I once was led mainly by the devil, but now no why, and choose not to, not only choosing God to guide me. But no that its the only thing that you can do to get to heaven. If you believe in that kind of love.

[@marielleladt3830]

There is some truth about Jordan Peterson beluef in god. the atheist dont believe that there is sone force outthere that isnot defined then it doesnt exist. It's better to recognise that our beliefs are rational or irrational. Believing in god give hopes and feel asocial function.The atheist on the other end is nihilistic,implimg that life has no meaning since we go through so much problems and finally die. So two views quite opposed.

[@pigpenclymer6098]

You have obviously never heard of humanism. Atheism does not equal nihilism,

[@deviouskris3012]

JP is an atheist with a background in evolutionary biology. He is currently pandering to those who write his cheques.

[@Peacenotwar1234]

Douglas is so pompous and arrogant

[@zephaniahblack1725]

Douglascis a first rate presenter. Eloquent , reasonable and talking to the point.

[@Peacenotwar1234]

@@zephaniahblack1725 and pompous and arrogant

[@ethanweber-rh3pr]

If I had to pick between the two I'd pick Doug over Matty 10/10 times.

[@deviouskris3012]

Just because someone is eloquent and rational. It doesn’t make him arrogant.

[@Peacenotwar1234]

@@deviouskris3012 just because someone is eloquent doesn’t make them rational or informed.

[@charltonheston969]

Matt weird salad dillyhunty

[@StarCrystal9]

This discussion is a propaganda of atheisme and big EGO! An inteligent person will not analyse something he doesnt understand! You both will be judges by God - unfortunately soon! I like Douglas's common sense but for certain topics and the religion particularly - he should better abstain!

[@danacasey8266]

I couldnt listen to them celebrate the death of the church. God save thrm and us.

[@johnnyleach7152]

Matt didn't run this time...shocking.

[@deviouskris3012]

Walking away from a disingenuous debate where the interlocutor can’t stay on topic. That isn’t running. Jordan Petersen refusing to come back on stage for he next scheduled debate, then having his manager say he will never debate Matt again. That is running.

[@wrathscar247]

Talking about Peterson while hes not there is pretty low

[@deviouskris3012]

Peterson discussion Canadian legislators? Peterson attacking climate scientists while they aren’t present? Jordan commenting relentlessly about the ‘radical, woke, left’ on his shows? It seems you are okay with JP doing the same.

[@Xyz98900]

Wisdom of men...yep, still foolish.