Douglas Murray & NT Wright: Does Christianity matter if it isn’t true?

[@marypinakat8594]

*"Christianity is all about Jesus."* - NT Wright

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Which Jesus, the spiritual teacher of Jewish esoterism named Yeshua and respected by the Ebionites or the Deified god figure created by Greco Roman writers of the late first and early second century.

[@marypinakat8594]

@@Darisiabgal7573 Jesus, the Wisdom and Power of God whom 'godless' ones put to death yet even death was 'powerless' to hold him and so was risen back to life and reigns at the right hand of God. He reigns also in the hearts and lives of multitudes on the earth and rules the world☆

[@Darisiabgal7573]

@@marypinakat8594 This idea is attested only in the minds of people who had never met Yeshua. No one who ever met Yeshua testified this as true, it was something that came about under followers of Paul and grew dramatically with the fall of the Temple. Mark did not say Jesus was resurrected, he was the only source in writing presumably at that time, but even he, a follower of Paul, never met Yeshua. James his brother never said he saw a risen Yeshua. Matthew was not written by the disciple, Luke identified himself as an assembler of stories, and even many Christian scholars consider John to be a fairy tail. The only credible account of Yeshua was Josephus Flavius and that account was tampered with in later writing, it mentions nothing about the resurrection. Twice Yeshua was mentioned, a second time when his brother was killed and he still fails to mention Yeshua had this huge following of people who believed he rose from the cross. There is no single story of Yeshua written in his native tongue by his disciples that survives to this day in any form. All we have are mythified stories of “Jesus” and the epistles of Paul and a large number of forgeries.

[@IosifStalin2]

Christianity is all about different people having different opinions about fantasy literature

[@Darisiabgal7573]

@@IosifStalin2 yes, but with the realization that buried deep in the Greco-Roman style mythifications, embellishments, paintings of a new Moses, rejected text are a few scattered sayings, some of which when cross compared come close to the sayings of a wandering teacher.

[@batman5224]

NT Wright took the words right out of my mouth.

[@theguyver4934]

One question who is your favorite apostle of Jesus ? Peter, James, Paul or john etc

[@samuelmithran5586]

@@theguyver4934 All of them.....All of them are Jewish and I regard even Judas to be above Muhammad.

[@tedprice5828]

There is everything NEW about the NT. It replace the old sacrificial system and brought together the prophets, priests and kings. Jesus Christ is the TRUEProphet, Priest and King.

[@brando3342]

NT Wright has a brilliant answer here. Spot on 👌

[@louiscyfer6944]

what brilliant answer? confirmation bias?

[@broccoli747]

@@louiscyfer6944 his answer wasn't brilliant??? Confirmation bias on your part? Just saying LOL!

[@anarchorepublican5954]

@@louiscyfer6944 ...NT Wright has boldly and faithfully engaged every HAThEist thought, notion, and argument of his time...his confirmation bias is because Wright fully understands the other side's ideas...and thus... has received full intellectual confirmation they are wrong?...that kind of confirmation would make anyone bias...

[@louiscyfer6944]

@@anarchorepublican5954 you are an idiot. the "other side" has no burden of proof, not accepting a proposition doesn't require carry a burden.

[@anarchorepublican5954]

@@louiscyfer6944 ...you should bear the burden of a long sleeve shirt...you'll never get a "propostion to accept" if you don't cover up...yuck

[@julesjgreig]

Thank you

[@robertoalexandre4250]

If one sole aspect of many other religions, namely Hinduism and Buddhism such as reincarnation is true, would this automatically render Christianity false? And if the Christian revelation were true, wouldn't this render the rest false?

[@callumclarke1733]

Most people Reject Christianity for voltional reasons not intellectual Reasons, people Don't what to make that leap Becouse People will have to change the way thay live, and people Don't what that.

[@scottfamily865]

“I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” John 17

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

Yes, because it guided some of the most successful civilizations in the world.

[@tchristian04]

When Paul wrote, “if Christ is not risen then our faith is in vain. So let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die.” I’m wondering what his view on resurrection had been prior to his becoming a Christian. He was a Pharisee so he believed there would be a resurrection at the end of the world. Had he been a universalist who thought there was resurrection but no judgment? His statement seems to suggest an either/or dichotomy between Jesus or sex, drugs and rock’n’roll nihilism. This question has never occurred to me until now and I wish I could ask N.T. Wright.

[@botaaa1672]

I think what Paul meant by this was that he was referring to the people in Corinth (the gentile people), who had a mindset of “Let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die” before Christ

[@lesliewilson1570]

The history of the world is contained in the bible, I'm no scholar but I understand the message that it contains. Its not about how clever you are, it's about faith.

[@iworkweekly]

Why does no one bring up the elephant in the room? Murray, a brilliant man is gay! How can one be an affirming Christian and live a gay life style?

[@jennifer97363]

Why don’t you ask those Christian Churches which, reading the same bible as you, do welcome 2SLGBTQ+ members, as well as clergy to minister to their congregations? There are at least 26 denominations which do welcome them. Not all congregations within those denominations agree, but at least members have lots of choice when choosing to move to another denomination which aligns closer to their clutched beliefs.

[@iworkweekly]

It could be that his sin would either lead him to repent or reject God. It is clear what path he chose.

[@littleboots9800]

@@jennifer97363 "2SLGBTQI+" That acronym grows by the day. "Two spirit"?? Smfh. No wonder "LGB drop the T" is getting so popular. All the acceptance they worked so hard to achieve is being endangered by all the nonsense of these attention seekers who claim membership of the TQ2SQ+ community. Its also the most unwieldy acronym I've ever heard 🤣

[@logans.butler285]

He said he's just culturally Christian, not a real Christian. In fact, he has considered himself openly atheist in many occasions.

[@littleboots9800]

@@logans.butler285 Doesn't he say "hopeful agnostic"? I know he certainly doesn't identify as Christian anymore but I've never heard him say he was an out and out atheist.

[@scottfamily865]

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.” John 18:37

[@Louiseskybunker]

It's going to be fun when Christ and his lawyer investigate all the money trails.

[@carletonraisbeck4137]

This was a great conversation. Do you think you could get on pastor Doug Wilson for something?

[@Vgallo]

I don’t think nt Wright took dm’s perspective seriously, or the way that he explained it was quite dismissive and lacked the awareness that christians have an emotional bias in this regard.

[@carlosdavidnavarrete3317]

I came here wanting to believe. But the poor arguments that believers pose has pushed me the other way.

[@kevinwells7080]

There were no arguments for veracity provided here. The discussion was about whether significance of the teachings depends on the truth of the historical claims. Murray says no. Wright seems to say yes. If you want a rather thorough treatment of the central claim by Wright, see his The Resurrection of the Son of God. Of course, one should read the texts themselves. Start with the Gospels, in a non- Elizabethan translation like the NIV.

[@scottfamily865]

These are not any that believe. And they will not face God for you, either.

[@mr.c2485]

How does one claim to know Jesus? Would this guy rather spend an hour with the real 1st century Jesus at Starbucks over a coffee or an hour in Bible reading and prayer time? Careful….that’s a loaded question.

[@CrissCHG]

Why not ?

[@frankwhelan1715]

yes,at bottom the bible is just words in a book,no way of checking how true people can write ANYTHING,(a god would know that)

[@kaiju1412]

Not really a loaded question. Hanging out with Jesus (If he existed) would get you yelled at if you brought the Bible to his attention in the first century. He would be very angry

[@jozsefnemeth935]

The first century Jesus before or after the Resurrection? Will you recognize the XXI century Jesus in Starbucks if you don't read the Bible?

[@jozsefnemeth935]

Important points from both sides. One needs to take the story on board with the miracles and love Jesus for who he is and what he did and does for us. On the other hand, the fruits , the moral necessities, the deeds in the present are the first hand, personal witnesses. A person is the highest category and without love life would be empty, steryl. So person and interpersonal relationships are primary experiences and non reducible foundations of reality. The prophecies and the new testament, the revelation about the Trinity are authentic to the mind because they match and deepen this experience. The Turin shroud is the icon of Love as the pope said. Good Friday and the resurrection are depicted on it. Based on Ian Wilson's accounts it is most likely authentic relic or there is no other explanation.After Pascal, seekers need to go to mass and meet the Eucharist. Happy are those who are invited to Jesus's table , the table of the Lamb of God.

[@hassanmirza2392]

AJ Arberry, a Christian Quran translator will disagree with you. Stop lying kindly.

[@williamkacensky4796]

The concept of man-made religion, is through ignorance itself. You either believe in creation or you do not. Being kind to one another and to other species of life. It's that simple.

[@danielgilleland8611]

Has Douglas Murray ever encountered the work of Garry Habbermas?

[@louiscyfer6944]

i have. it is idiotic.

[@danielgilleland8611]

@@louiscyfer6944 The what would be your explanation of what happened? If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then what happened?

[@louiscyfer6944]

@@danielgilleland8611 every other explanation is more plausible. we have no actual evidence for any of it, so maybe there was no crucifixion at all. if there waa a crucifixion, the body would have been left up there for weeks, and thrown in an unmarked mass grave after that. no tomb. no empty tomb, etc. if jesus was crucified and taken down a few hours later, likely he was not dead, this no resurrection necessary.

[@FaanLouw]

"We do not have a book" Referring to a antiapartheid speaker is quit wrong. They had a book, called "Capital" by Marx, and it had a very specific moral and ethical tradition.

[@trevorbates9017]

Problem is that there is an enormous science behind the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ...a space-age science that says that all the energy found in atoms, in galaxies, in stars, in life, and in all sciences, has a common source. The science is so complex that only our Deity truly understands it but Jesus made that science flesh and if we want an indestructible, space-age future we had better get to know and understand it intimately, in the way Jesus taught us. Righteousness is a code embraced by many universal space-age travellers and we are warned of some great tribulations which will put our faith to the ultimate test and whilst repentance is still an option we should embrace it righteously, and the Ten Commandments, as endorsed by Jesus Christ, is a good place to start...but don't leave it too late.

[@thenaturalpeoplesbureau]

The descent of christ into the earth, is really the descent into your heart; Earth and heart are anagrams. There is no goodness in a literalist interpretation.

[@raywingfield]

Wow, start with the correct question first. Is Christianity a monolith of belief? No! So now lets define which Christianity. Catholic- faith and works? Scripture and tradition? maybe not Protestants- Sola Scriptura? Sola Fide ? maybe so Specific Denomination- Evangelical? probably Now we can ask that question......

[@DingleberryPie]

The Communist Manifesto is what people would flock to.

[@ianhall3822]

I say that Jesus is talking gibberish in Matthew 17, when he says epilepsy can be cured by prayer and fasting. Maybe Bishop Wright has an alternative interpretation......

[@thucydides7849]

Let’s not forget when Jesus threw a temper tantrum at a plant for being out of season... and then when the author of luke thought “ya know maybe I’ll leave this story of a petty, poor tempered god child out of the story”

[@IosifStalin2]

I , for one, will hold on to my truth that the Lord Shiva sits contemplatively in his holy abode of Kailash, getting ready to end the world. For a deeper exegesis , PM me directly.

[@louiscyfer6944]

lord Shiva lives in my house.

[@IosifStalin2]

@@louiscyfer6944 I know who I am....I know who I am

[@broccoli747]

Unfortunately, polytheism is a mess, much like the Greek gods where there's always politicking. Just look at municipal issues where rubbish is dumped on no man's land, the environment department doesn't want to touch it, neither does the town council nor the state government, much less the federal government. That's what happens when you have millions of different gods in charge of overlaps and everything. No one knows what to do, the all want to be number one and so every god for himself or herself.

[@IosifStalin2]

@@broccoli747 I suppose 3 is better

[@pauldavies7469]

Of course it matters if its true. There's no evidence it is, so let's move on.

[@BrianNeil]

Climax in Jesus, except that he didn't show up when he was supposed to. 2000yrs later he still hasn't shown up. Big fail.

[@zachdavenport8509]

God is never late. He arrives precisely when He intends to.

[@BrianNeil]

@@zachdavenport8509 Matt 10:23; 16:27-28: 24:33-34. Luke 21:22, 28, 31. Rev 1:3: 22:10.

[@marypinakat8594]

Jesus is the one entity that Rules this entire universe. Open the eyes☆

[@zachdavenport8509]

@@BrianNeil Before I go to the effort to look closer at those passages and explain how they do not mean what you are implying (which you are implying that the authors of the texts were morons who shot themselves in the foot by recording prophecies they knew hadn't happened and that the early church leaders were too moronic to comprehend this), do you actually care to reconsider your viewpoint or are you just trying to put forth a polemic?

[@vanmoody]

If Jesus wasn't the risen Christ I would probably be a Buddhist because they never get riled up or do anything. When was the last time you saw a Buddhist group picketing some place or even raising their voice much? I want to point this out too. If Jesus is not the Way,Truth, and the Life as He said then which religion or belief system is true?

[@derekallen4568]

Not only did jesus rise from the dead, he defied gravity as well and ascended into heaven.

[@vanmoody]

@@derekallen4568 I've often said that as a child Superman was my hero. Because Jesus is real then someday He will allow me to mimick my old childhood hero. I will get to fly.

[@scharlatan8384]

@@vanmoody look at Myanmar.

[@schnellster1]

Why do you even need a religion or god?. If any so called god is bothered to know his presence felt....let that show its face in the sky, we have the most population ever living on earth at anyone time.

[@carlosdavidnavarrete3317]

None. We're like fleas trying to understand the mind of dog.

[@arthurwieczorek4894]

Let's pretend Christianity is true so the moral foundations of society won't crumble into dust. As if Christianity's morals of obedience were a proper foundation.

[@treemanzoneskullyajan711]

NOOO dont lose respect duggy by feeding the christ

[@claudiozanella256]

Christianity is true because only in it the SON of God exists. The problem is that it's impossible for the almighty God be here now. Why? It's due to the fact that the future is now SET IN STONE. We can have FREE WILL because we do NOT know what is written in the stone and do not care about that. But God would KNOW that future instead and that future MUST COME TRUE. This means God would NOT be OMNIPOTENT: He could not even change the weather of tomorrow! He would thus be OBLIGED to let the future set in stone EXACTLY UNFOLD like it is, nothing can be changed. God would NOT BE FREE either, because obliged to TAKE EXACTLY the God's actions already set in stone, down to the tiny detail. How could God manage to solve that problem? The almighty God was in a very distant past, before the birth of mankind and time ("...BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN. O righteous Father, the WORLD HAS NOT KNOWN YOU....") and from that temporal point He was able to OBSERVE US in his future and to take ACTIONS in that future. But this conversely means - from our point of view - that we are REACHED BY HIM from that past. God is thus actually PRESENT HERE, but ONLY with his words and actions. It's a kind of phone communication with the past, with added possibility of omnipotent actions. In other terms we can say that God IS A SPIRIT here ("God is a spirit") because He is active but those actions are actually MADE BY NOBODY. That Spirit - who is here - is called the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, the almighty God - who dwells in that distant past - corresponds to the "Father" of the baptismal formula, no one ever saw Him ("the world has not known you")... That above is from our point of view. From GOD'S POINT OF VIEW instead things are different: when the universe started the almighty God had already done ALL HIS WORK. He already decided all his future actions so that the future was now FINALLY SET IN STONE, to be made AUTOMATICALLY TRUE by his power. He had thus made EVERYTHING. He could get rid of his then USELESS power to become like a NORMAL MAN: the Son. "Son" thus means that He DERIVES from God, He is not a Son in the common sense of the word. As a normal man, He also has a relationship with God (but much stronger), He has thus a relationship with a "different Himself". The Son has thus no power at all, but He sits in heaven next to the power of God. His power is thus always "borrowed" from the Father, under his consent. God has thus already lived his "mankind experience" once as the almighty God. He is now living his "mankind experience" a second time as a normal man.

[@mr.c2485]

I tried to “get onboard” with the Bible, but my slaves kept running away.

[@Darisiabgal7573]

If you want to start with why Christianity is a Fail let’s not start with Jesus, Yeshu, Yehoshua, Joshua or whatever. Let’s start with the basics 1. Jesus following was Ebionites (first), Marcionites, Valentina, and Pauline. Most of three of those, even the starting group of Jesus followers have been wiped into non-existence by an increasingly dogmatic proto Orthodox Church. Fail #1, not representative of the living Yeshua. 2. Pauline Christianity is basically who follow one mans, self admitted, wantedly ignorant of Yeshua, hallucination. Read Galatians. Went to Jerusalem, talk to the brother of Yeshua and his Disciples decided that they had nothing to offer him relative to what he learned in his hallucination. 3. The strong arming of Christian belief with use of dramatic elements like Heaven and Hell (Hades, a Grecian concept), claims of heresy and burn in hell mentality if you disagree with church dogma. 4. The allowance, worse, promotion of texts (10) known to be forgeries (psuedoepigraphia) in both traditional and Protestant Christianity (6 Pauline letters, 1st and 2nd Peter) 5. The use of obviously questionable judgement by including revelations 6. The stark contradiction of events in the gospels regarding the divinity of “Jesus” simply embellished for literary reasons. The best example is the story in John about Lazarus, a modified version of the Lucan story made to look as if Yeshu had the power to physically resurrect people 7. While such artistic liberty was not sufficient to have redacted John, for far less reason the Gospel of Tomas was withheld from the canon. #4 Is particularly troublesome because most divinity scholars learn about these forgeries, but they still promote them at the pulpit. And with regard to the hyperbolic embellishements in the NT, but none in the withheld Tomas one has to really question the credibility of those who assembled the canon. The problem with the Protestant reformation is that it was not. What Christianity really needs is a reformation that has meaning.

[@carlosdavidnavarrete3317]

As a Christian, I studied history of the church. Most of my friends in the courses were Christians who learned all the facts you presented above. Yet, they still believed it was all still true. I left college as a non-believer, because I was honest with myself and my faith.

[@broccoli747]

I kinda like what you've been smoking.

[@andreab2627]

Of course Christianity doesn't matter if it's NOT true, but it IS true, so it really, really matters. More than life itself.

[@andreab2627]

@Pisstake your name says it all!

[@Darisiabgal7573]

The word Christ means annointed one. The question is when was Christ annointed. According to Mark Christ was annointed by god when he was Baptised by Mark, this was witnessed by no less than 2 disciples certainly it is true. That spirit left his earthly body before he died, exclaiming ‘why have you forsaken me’ But Matthew and Luke, whose common source is Q says that he was annointed by gods touch at conception. According to John Jesus was from the beginning annointed. According to the Gnostics the god of good entered his earthly body and left it. Which is true, they can’t all be true. If jesus was lit by spirit on the Jordan , then everyone shoukd tell this tale. If it was from the womb there should be a testamony by Mary, there is not. In fact in Mark, Mary and James come to Jesus to take him away from his insanity. For Christianity to be true there needs to be a divine annointment, but there is not, only conflicted stories. The reason there are conflicted stories because it’s not true, it was contrived. We can see why. Mark is a follower of Paul, Paul was in conflict with James and Peter, what Mark was trying to show is that Paul’s version is the true versions and James version was not. Matthew (the attributes name, not the disciple) was a Hellenized Jew of non-Judean origin. He wanted to show the messianic origin of Jesus but he was grossly uninformed about the teachings of Jews in Israel at that time. The books used to support Jesus are markedly different in the African written Septuagint than the original stories of Danial and Isaiah. As a consequent Matthew is trying to paint Jesus using the pallets of Diaspora writings, which if you watch the Mythvision video by Rabbi Tobias are simply wrong. Consequently Jesus is given a davidic genealogy and a Hellenized birth narrative. Matthew has thre MAGUS come from the East. Why, from time to time counties near Asia Minor had Persian occupation or treaties, the magus were sent to educate the class of leaders and were special Zoroastrian priest, but in the Judean Judaism these symbols had little value. Luke provides a third testamony. Luke does not identify as a Jew, but someone who was familiar with Paul and the stories floating around northeastern Mediterranean about 50 to 70 years after Jesus died. He is not Jewish, unlikely could talk to Miriam, and James the brother of Jesus died in 62 CE. Most scholars agree that John is not a historical account of Jesus but a literary account based on The Authors (plural) personal visions (hallucinations). There are strong signals of Greek mythology in John indication that he preludes the book with Grecian theistic arguments and stories (for example the uncharacteristic water to wine wedding party story) resembling the Bacchae. None of the sources in the New Testament can be trusted as sources Jesus annointment or divinity. Authors use Paul as the affirmation. But Paul never saw Jesus, and yet he claims he saw Jesus in a hallucination (three different accounts). Truth can be found from truthful arguments. But none of the arguments are truthful, all are flawed by speculation and weak sources. You can separate the man from the myth, look for what can be attested, the sayings, the sources of multiple primitives Mk, Mt, Lk, Jn, GoT. There are about 30, removing the doublets, some are likely from JtB or his disciples. This, the baptism and the crucifixion is the Yeshua. The rest is Grecian mythology called Jesus Christ. So the question here is whether you equate truth with myth and speculation or from source literature and attestation.

[@andreab2627]

@Pisstake no, I got so much more, right now I'm asking Jesus to reveal himself to you, that you know that He loves you, and you will be back on here in no time at all, with a new name. Maybe 'Forgiven and loved'. Be blessed!

[@andreab2627]

@Pisstake Hey, I prayed, and God always answers, but it's over to you now: God is patient, and is waiting for you to ask Him into your life. Don't leave it too late x

[@andreab2627]

@Pisstake Well, it was good to meet you. I have prayed that God will bless you and keep you, and that you will find Him. Maybe come back and let me know when you do! Blessings 👍

[@gobowwoewow3752]

Blech these comments suck. Don't any people who actually believe in Christianity aka Roman Catholics watch this show

[@TesterBoy]

Douglas Murray is not a Christian because he love his homosexual lifestyle than Jesus THE CHRIST…. I pray he changes (biblical repentance)

[@jeffbetts9420]

Sorry but there are plenty of church leaders who do not believe in the resurrection. Does that make the religion untrue or does it depend entirely on your personal beliefs? I for one do not believe Jesus ever existed but I cannot prove that. Then again no one can prove Jesus ever existed either. However many wonderful people believe Mohammed rode a horse to heaven. And many wonderful people believe Jesus is the son of God. I simply do not. But perhaps it would be nice if he was. Then again the world might be a much better place if people stopped believing these things, but that is not going to happen so why bother raising the question?

[@scharlatan8384]

Well it matters to all of us who have to live with people who believe such silly things

[@mr.c2485]

My condolences…

[@jimcolegrove5442]

The basic understanding of Christiandom is the Trinity. Pagan based, is why the churches cannot be 'one.' (John chapter 17; 1 Corinthians 1:10)

[@mikhem1962]

You can’t prove he died on the cross never mind came to life again.

[@abashedsanctimony154]

But There is a way to prove it. You will never willingly be crucified or die for another. Ask a veteran who has given their life for another. And survived. You will find the answer you seek. For you aren't humble enough to understand God yet.

[@mikhem1962]

@@abashedsanctimony154 , what a load of rubbish. If he was crucified it was the punishment of the day. He had no choice. People have gone to the firing squad or gallows resigned to the fact they are going to die ( basically because they couldn’t prevent it) you’ve proved nothing but your gullibility.

[@abashedsanctimony154]

@@mikhem1962 But according to history, and events that re tell the order of the day.. He was condemned even though innocent of their changes of the /religion/law, but guilty by a claim of title - God. while, a guilty Jew was released by the people's request. So you see, it wasn't normal as you claim. People die everyday, do criminals get released because they need to kill an innocent man instead.. oh I guess haven't heard everything as of today. What guilty murderer , bar'Abbas would be released by any government official? His track record and criminal activity was killing soldiers. Roman soldiers. And the reason Yeshua was killed was of a claim , I Am God. That was the crime He was killed for. And He was guilty of that. But He is God, and therefore not guilty, because it is the truth. See the irony yet, or confused by the simple logic of it? If you want non-biblical sources .. look no further than the catholics. They have carried a pagan religion by the moniker of Christianity, and yet have spread the Name of Jesus across the world. I don't see much more needed proof than that. How about a chain of events whereby the Egyptian army was destroyed in a sea after having conquered the little nation of Israel, then to become the slave nation that produced the Hebrew leader that would set them free? There is proof of the Exodus it's littered through ancient texts. But also the establishment of Israel as a religious nation. With a Holy site that has been fought over for thousands of years. Is there a need to have a holy war in a desert? Why not simply call it a day after their Temple was destroyed? There have been wars upon wars in that singular area. There was this general named Patton that studied history and claimed to know the places of ancient battle fields. Why? Because there is clearly spiritual warfare for regions upon the earth. In the Biblical events of history, princes of the air rule of principalities. Which means kingdoms that are seen and not seen by the naked eye. But manifest through rise and fall of nations. Why do claim to know something about God and something about the law of governments.. who have people government and the ability to rule over each other? You think godless men are that smart 🤓. They simply kill those who merely are perceived as threats. Government was instituted because apparently men have been know to cooperate, and communicate higher thoughts that have nothing to do with simple survival. But of power and authority. God gives that from above, what we see here down below. But I don't refer to as above so below, I refer to God is above and one day He will reveal Himself as the Highest Authority. Yeshua came once and didn't show "Who" God truly is yet.

[@mikhem1962]

@@abashedsanctimony154 it’s a story. It’s myth and legend.

[@thespiritofhegel3487]

'We don't have a book'. So you need one of equivalent seriousness? A pity they don't have it if you mean the Bible, funniest book ever written. For a serious book however try Hegel's 'Phenomenology of Spirit', 1807.

[@abrahamblankfein5042]

Hegel belongs in the bin. Typical continental guff.

[@jenna2431]

How is it true of you don't even get the name of your "savior" right? When the first people came over to the Americas, their bible said "IESOUS"--which is the Latinized version of a mangled up Greek transliteration. How is it that the "scriptures" you use are littered with errors, but are the inspired word of your god? How it is that those scriptures are shown, proved to have interpolations, but it's all good with you? The answer to these questions is all the same "Don't ask, don't tell."

[@raymarsh5455]

Christianity? Haven't any of these people ever heard of Thomas Paine, Robert Ingersoll, Voltaire? That horse bolted centuries ago. The high point of Christianity was the Dark Ages. It was after the Enlightenment that all of the benefits of modern civilization happened. Christians praise Jesus for blessings, but it was not Jesus who gave them science, cell phones, airplanes, computers etc . It was the Enlightenment.