Does it Matter What Type of Witch You Are?

#witchcraft #wicca #witch
How do labels impact our practice? Who do they serve? Does it matter what you call yourself?
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[@gabrielleangelica1977]

I think I'll be a unicorn 🦄 witch today!

[@TarotandWitchery]

Lovely!

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

@@TarotandWitchery I hope people get that I'm being sarcastic...😉

[@SionnachKathuboduva]

With respect to the military usage of 'Wicca' - It can be important to offer (them...) a clear category: The US Department of Defense does keep track of which religions are recognized by the State. And if you're not in a category, then you don't get any treatment out of the ordinary. {sorry Pastafarians...no trading your helmet for a colander} That's mostly for the purpose of benefits such as burial rites/sacraments - such as having a pentacle on your tombstone - and so that military Chaplains might better know how to interact. I've been out a very, very long time now, but the chaplaincy/counseling aspect used to be very hit and miss (mostly miss back then), as many chaplains (were/could be) rather fundamentalist in worldview. I'm told this has changed greatly. But back then: if you had a fundy chaplain, any pagans were basically SOL. If the command's chaplain was supportive, then you had a much better time of it. Also, depending on the command, there may be an allowance for some limited holidays/time off, or at least a legitimized reason to take time off. The Department of Defense does maintain a list of recognized religions. And, again, I'm told things are far better than they were 30 years ago.

[@JoeBoatfieldArt]

I’m going to be a chips and queso Witch today!

[@drawingKenaz]

Today and every day 💙

[@colleenberlen5474]

I am not into labels but this really made sense to me and I can see how it may be important to use them at times. It is spot on that labels are more for how other people perceive you, and not always what you feel you are. Very good points of view.

[@StorybookApothecary]

When you said “this week has been trash,” I felt that 😅🤷🏻‍♀️

[@drawingKenaz]

Sometimes that’s about as eloquent as I get 😌 🗑

[@heathersmith8549]

Although on one hand labels make me bristle I can acknowledge that on the other hand they can create a sense of belonging.

[@teevell1069]

I think some of this comes from fantasy fiction and RPGs. I have read so many books where you have pyromancers, hydromancers, etc. Where the magical protagonists have a particular set of powers that sets them apart. Hit up some Tamora Pierce novels for a good example of this. I think there is a pretty big overlap between witches and fantasy fiction fans, and how many of us wished we could use fantasy magic like our favorite characters and be the special chosen one who is a master of a particular type of magic. So they're not just a witch, they're a cosmic witch, because that's how magic works and they want to be the special protagonist in their own story. But magic in books isn't magic in real life, and we need to really make that line between fantasy and reality more solid.

[@oathboundsecrets]

There are three books i remember from the late 90s: To Ride a Silver Broomstick, A Witchs Bible, and Hedgewitch. Back then Wicca was Witchcraft, Witchcraft was Wicca, and I still kind of think of it like that.

[@marthagonzalez6048]

Hello Thorn. Communicated with you some time ago and read one of your books. Gardnerian myself. So I am a Gen x (1967) and I had to look that up because I personally have an issue with all these sudden labels people are obsessed with but what you had to say really made sense to me. You are so right! I identify myself depending on the person/s I am talking to. In some cases, like at work, I tell people I’m spiritual. I have no need to tell my patients what I practice especially so that they don’t judge me. Sometimes I say I’m Wiccan because it’s a general term although it’s 50/50 whether or not people know what that is. Sometimes I say Im a bruja or witch. And of course in other scenarios I go deeply into my religion. So it really depends on who I’m talking to.

[@colleenjacobs9466]

I actually prefer labels as it helps me to focus better on my path. Granted the title of the label has changed over the years numerous times. Although I regret that my use of the term shamanic witch created a few rather nasty arguments in a group I eventually left, I was told I was being stupid...yes they actually said that...but they refused to accept that there is such a thing. Finally I've settled into the the title of Norse hedgewitch. It feels more comfortable then anything else I've been.

[@ktmerfeld9612]

I agree that the labels limit the Craft. You cannot evolve if you pigeonhole yourself in one specific category. IN MY OPINION, our Souls are here to learn. Experience. Evolve. Releasing the need for a specific label can open your mind and resources you will find.🤘🏻🌕Happy Full Moon ♑

[@Intuitivecathie]

Interesting topic. I was initiated in the mid 90's, left the coven and practiced solitary. As I've "saged," more spiritually, I would agree that publications (and marketing) are shaping beliefs and practices. One thing that seems to remain is the connection to the earth and nature.

[@WormwoodCrow]

Labels (and corresponding hashtags) are interesting sign posts of their time. Popularity of certain monikers will wax and wane as trends that evolve from the community AND from marketing. As you stated, in the 90s, Wicca was what was seen on the shelves because #wicca was Llewellyn's money maker. #eclectic also really sold to the masses. Some of these labels from the past have changed names, but still refer to the same general category of practice. While #greenwitchcraft and #kitchenwitchery were popularizing in the 90s and early 2000s, they eventually morphed into these more niche categories like #cottagewitchcraft or #seawitchcraft. Let's be real, it's the same witchcraft with a more specific aesthetic attached. And that can come from marketing, as you [cynically/accurately] suggested. The people using these labels may be putting themselves into smaller and smaller boxes but, because everything is on social media now, these same labels allow them to reach wider and wider audiences/kindred spirits. The narrower the parameters of who you are, the stronger the sense of tribal identity you forge when you find people who share the same parameters. This is actually great when your working community is a dozen people gathering together with the same mindset. Less great if you find yourself the odd man out in your geographic region. I think most arguments stem from the frustration people experience determining how narrow to make their parameters to feel unique and then being so unique they become another species. Excellent topic! It would be very interesting if you created a video where you and a panel of witches discussed definitions and labels and inclusion/exclusion, both personally and sociologically. But that's a big project. I hope your painting came out pretty.

[@TarotandWitchery]

Great thoughts on this. I totally agree. I've been tossing this subject around for a bit now... I tend not to like labels and they really weren't available in the 90s, so I tend to shy away. If I meet someone I want to connect with, we can delve into each other. I prefer connection to be made and not assumed by a label!

[@WormwoodCrow]

@@TarotandWitchery I think the labels (or hashtags, these days) are a good starting place. Almost a necessity when conversations start online. It's as if you were picking up a book on a broad topic, like witchcraft, and then checking the index to see if it mentions certain keywords you're interested in and how you can quickly find them in the book. So I understand why the evolution of the creation of a "profile" online comes first before you can really sit across from someone (in person or virtually) and really pick their brains. Like you, I don't want to assume by a label, but if the labels are self-chosen it's hard to say you simply can't imagine who a #graveyardwitch might be compared to someone #cottagecore. It's just human nature.

[@whitebirdification]

I do appreciate your ability to see these labels as more than just marketing angles. I will try to see this as a considerable point of view. Props for maintaining the example for keeping an open mind.

[@aliceandthewitches]

Back to what you said about limiting - I think I use labels to focus my practice. I’ll cycle thru different labels as my practice shifts focus. But these are more labels for myself & my journal. Exploring what being a (I.e.:) cosmic witch vs a green witch, looks like to me. To others I pretty much just use “witch”. 🤔…maybe it’s similar to art… I’m an artist who draws. I don’t really say I’m a “drawer”, but I do know people who identify as “painters” or “sculptors”, more so then saying they’re an “artist”.

[@dancingdruid8314]

I think the biggest description we had when we were younger was either solitary witch or group witch. Wether we belong to a coven or a circle.

[@nikokatos]

This video is great especially at the end. I identify as Wiccan solely because of its legal protections just as used in the military. However I do practice American and Balkan folk magic practices with the Wiccan Wheel of the Year in mind.

[@lexstellaris]

I have definitely been sceptical of those microlabels for various witch/pagan types in the past, but I've mellowed a bit on them because I feel I can use them as a way to tell myself - and others - where my focus is in a magical sense, even if it's not the full picture. And my labels have changed so much over the years, too, because my focus, path, and practice have changed as well. Being able to tell someone what I'm specifically doing, and the deities I'm working with, is a useful way to find community! But honestly, outside of witchy/pagan communities, I tend to just call myself a witch or a pagan bc it's just easier than explaining all the nuances. And this is very much a similar conversation with all the various lgbtqia+ flags/microlabels too. We didn't have all those thousands of identities when we were figuring ourselves out so they very much feel weird and like, far far too specific to me. But yeah, they do serve that purpose of finding community and figuring yourself out. They have a place. But man does it make it hard to memorise them all. XD

[@TarotandWitchery]

I agree. For the public at large witch or pagan will suffice. Anything beyond that is confusing!

[@micheller3251]

Interesting! I'm a solo practitionner and never really felt a need to use a label, but I also don't really use labels in life in general. For self-identification I don't really mind what people call themselves unless it's very misleading and makes me wonder if they were misinformed. When it comes to discussions I don't like them, I'd rather describe exactly what practice I'm talking about because there's less place for misunderstanding or putting words in my mouth (intentionally or not).

[@peckishpagan]

Since picking up my first occult book in 93ish, I’ve leaned towards calling myself a pagan, but only when pressed for a label (or channel name). It was more of a personal choice based on the information I had access to at the time. Now that I have access to ALL of the information, I feel it was the right choice for me. For the most part, no one cared back then. The world was trying to get away from labels, and it seemed too limiting, even in those days. On the other side of that coin, there are practices I’ve never adopted and topics I’ve never studied because they were so closely associated with something I didn’t consider myself to be enough of an “insider” for it to be appropriate for me to take up that banner, like the restricted section of a library. Not to say that I won’t; I just have to feel ready for it or if it comes my way on it’s own in a natural progression. I’ve been able to study many interesting practices because I’ve lived two lifetimes since picking up that first book… and, yes, it was by Raymond Buckland.

[@TarotandWitchery]

It's so interesting you brought up that no one cared back then... I find myself wrestling with funding a label because when I approached witchcraft in the early 90s this wasn't a question! I'm wondering why you landed on pagan?

[@peckishpagan]

@@TarotandWitchery I believe (for the most part, and this is debatable) that all witches are pagan, but not all pagans are witches. Sort of like how all bourbon is whiskey, but not all whiskey is bourbon. I don’t espouse to all of standard beliefs and practices associated with witchcraft, but what I do practice produces consistent results, and that’s enough for me. I definitely don’t have enough corn in my mash to call myself bourbon, but I’m still unquestionably whiskey, so to speak.

[@leohnorah8259]

Oh man, I’m excited for this one!

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

I've always been a musical storm witch But,I think of this "label" as a description of my practice

[@danielleking3880]

Growing up as a teen in the 80s, in a small conservitive town in NY, there was very little information on witchcraft. there was a few books on Wicca, not nearly as many as now. My mother had Wiccan books, books on history of witchcraft as it was seen from those in Christianity, like the hammer of witches. But she was an episcopalian, and practiced what would now be called folk magic or Appalachian tradisions. She was from the south and her family had moved from Virginia to Texas over several generations, picking up various different supersitions and folk ideas. But that wasn't something one talked about much less write about. Mom had started her journey in the 60s, and felt like she didn't fit into christianity or witchcraft, that she had no place for her beliefs or thoughts. I too had this reaction. Although I could read things like Crowley, It was all cerimonial magic, or Wiccan. The lables people use now are fasinating to me, it shows their main skills and intrests, often how they were introduced to the craft. Its helpful if one is reasearching a type of tool or topic to look for witches who practice that type of skill set and those labels help find them on line. because, yes, I still life in that same small rural county, abet in another small town, and access in stores is still limited here unless one wants to travel hours away. So anything new agey is the devils work still, its still considered a solitary practice here. Although when I went to our 2 year college that has kids from all over the world attending, I was pleased to see a group for magically inclined people. Unfortunately, its closed to all but college students. I've seen one or two other small groups but their practice is not akin to what I do, and they tend to be very judgemental about how their way is the only way. I'm not going to find my group in this area in my lifetime. I find that solitary practisioners who have practiced a long time that way have their own ideas on thngs. But I try to learn from others despite their labels.

[@quiantellaleblanc6226]

Good afternoon , I have been learning a lot about , Witch craft my sister is a practitioner. I love the different practices. ♎

[@inthetigerseye]

I feel this really hard. It reminds me of the music festival community. Going to festivals 10, 20 years ago was a very different experience from today! A lot of mindset shifts and opportunity specifics that you are talking about. I feel like there are more options for our brains today. Great video Thorn!

[@timkrieger4032]

Hi 😃. Love your videos. Thank you 💚👍.

[@JK-jl1bf]

I’m 100% Eclectic with Traditional Influences and I lean more into Moon Triple Goddess Worship and call Elements my Ancestors and I feel Science and Religion can work together in Nature Worship. My role as a Wicch is transform form into Spirit and draw from Spirit to empower or charge Material and Magickal tools for commanding lower energies with high vibration energies to cause change. I’m essentially an agent of change.

[@xhumanwreckage]

I had a conversation the other day with my very atheist best friend where I referred to myself as "religious" and I got the effect you're describing, as he was trying to exclude me from that type of people as he complained about some of the pitfalls of what I refer to as "organized religion". Anyway, I'd love a video on this topic if you ever want to impart us with your knowledge of the word's origins and implications when used in witchy spaces from your background!

[@carmaterra2275]

I have 2 many interests lol cosmic witch , chaos witch interests me but I have like 500 books to read to decide where I feel like I fit

[@dylanmagoiofthethalasso4032]

I feel like I'm one of the only ones that don't mind labels, one of the aspects of my craft wouldn't exist if I didn't find the label "Art Witch" because at the time I didn't know you could include art in your practice. I label myself over all an eclectic witch but if someone asks me to go more in-depth I will, I mentally know to not keep myself in a labels box. Could you create a video about books of the history of wicca?

[@SimpleMandy]

I actually loved this and I think you hit it on the head, and this is my belief as well, if I am in private I am just a witch doing my thing. If I am in public, especially in a group, or in conversation that is when I bring out my labels of eclectic (for generalization), cosmic, forest and green, bioregional, elemental, solar, or lunar witchcraft with Wicca and Hellenistic religious beliefs. It all depends on the subject or question being asked by someone. Also, as a gen x/elder millennial (or Pluto in Libra generation!) the labelling threw me off guard too as a simple way of marketing the latest "thing."

[@medeastop]

Thank you, Thorn! So much helpful here.

[@RachelStormborn]

I never focused overmuch on labels or what people call themselves. I figure it's personal and none of my business. I loathed the 90's and early 2000's where gatekeeping was intense and horribly elitist.

[@junipercrow3535]

I really enjoy these talks and hearing your perspective. Thank you for this. Labels bother me, especially the super-specific niche labels, but paganism (and I'm talking about the religion, not the general practice of witchcraft) is so varied and diverse. A reconstruction kemeticist (unsure on spelling) might not have as much to chat about with a revival druid but a lot to talk about with a Celtiberian polytheist. It's all very confusing so in that sense labels help. But only if you actually fall under a label. It seems like there is a trend to give some side eye if you either aren't sure where you fit or don't land neatly into one of the categories.

[@poisonparadise13]

I admire your patience when discussing so-called "Traditional Witchcraft", which is basically a reaction to mainstream and politically correct portrayals of Wicca, and not that different from it, except it tries to be dark and spooky, and is influenced a lot by pop culture. It seems much less "traditional" than Gardnerian/Alexandrian Craft, really.

[@micomarinas2753]

hi thorn!! do you have a.video about the different types of wiccan & how they are different from one another? in the philippines there is only one registered correllian wicca as one of the religion here,

[@julieb2398]

Can you discuss the difference between Wica and Wicca? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! Brightest blessings.

[@vincentzack]

Words and thoughts carry energy. Right now the Earth is surrounded by so much negative energy it does effect the Human Race as well as Nature. Fear, hatred and crimes against humanity coming out of Ukraine are a huge factor in what is about to happen to the only home we have.

[@septegram]

Oh, gods... I haven't read "Sweep" in forever. Hmm...

[@gastronomist]

Only a select group of people should call themselves Gardenarians, and you know who they are.

[@bloodsweatandsteel.2749]

I don't use any of the micro labels because none of them work. Depending on who im talking to. If its a right wing fundamentalist Christian ill usually just lie and say what ever I think they need to hear to get them to S.T.F.U. another pagan though I've described myself as a" wiccan adjacent witch" a witch. A pagan and if the conversion is pleasant ill explain that because I view smithcraft and witchcraft as being one in the same with regard to my practice that im an occultist blacksmith. Though because I do still cast circle and call quarters maby im just a wiccan witch who just uses an anvil instead of a couldron. Honestly what ever is most helpful for description purposes is just fine for me.

[@pe003]

Question: is there anybody who identifies as wiccan but doesn't use the term witch?

[@drawingKenaz]

I’m sure they’re out there, but I don’t personally know anyone. And I’d be surprised to find many in initiatory Wiccan spaces!

[@vernmeyerotto255]

Without any disrespect intended, I'm becoming more and more amused at what worries "modern" witches have over their practice of the craft, and the labels they are squabbling over.

[@whangbar]

I've been trying to get Dungeons and Dragons to lead me to Satan for years. All I get is a B-list Demogorgon. Maybe in my racier moments, the ghost of Gary Gygax in horns and red tights.

[@drawingKenaz]

Right? I was promised Satan.

[@whangbar]

@@drawingKenaz "Satan" :: "Jetpacks." So many promises unfulfilled.

[@dianeowen1766]

just got to say you remind me of Drew Barrymore 😊

[@CrystalStarWitchery]

Those cutesy labels irritate me. I avoid them

[@septegram]

As a non-Gard, I was under the impression you can call yourself a Gard if you can trace your lineage back to Uncle Gerald himself. Now, "Wiccan" is so much looser. There's no central authority, so even as a snooty Traditional, I don't think I can tell someone "you can't call yourself Wiccan." I might not recognize that person's initiation, or think highly of zir praxis, but that's on me.

[@dancingdruid8314]

Druid, Alchemist, Witch, Priest, Priestess, Elder, Newbie, .......it's all crap....how about searcher.