Dual Star, Actual real world range test

[@FirstName-wk1hm]

My Dual Star also wobbles with rear battery installed. I found out the same way you just found out when riding on an uneven surface. After that I did multiple wobble tests and it failed every time. I removed rear battery and could not get it to wobble. I did notice the 2 hex bolts holding the handle bars that are vertical to each other in relation to the bike came loose, so you may want to verify those bolts haven't came loose like mine did. If those 2 bolts are too loose the handle bars will turn in a different direction from the tire, which is not good. I also wanted to add that you were likely dealing with dead battery with the bike cutting out. My battery died at about the same voltage.

[@benhartland4708]

that and make sure the rear suspension shock is setup to your weight...mine (i have a dual battery wired freedom) was at 30psi from the factory, once i brought it to 160 based on sag, rebound, etc no issues AND the bike rides so much nicer! also never hurts to do a "once over" on all fittings and make sure they are torqued to spec. nothing wrong with these bikes folks, usually operator error ;)

[@RidinRetired]

It’s because of weight distribution, you keep leaning back and that’s when it starts. The more weight you have in back the more likely you are to have the wobble. It’s the same concept when pulling a trailer behind a vehicle. If the weight is too far back you can get a death wobble in the trailer.

[@diysolaradventures7894]

Ahhh my favorite ebike video once again very much appreciated... 😉

[@psavar97]

Try adjusting the rear suspension, stiffen it to be specific. That has fixed the wobble on all the five stars ive seen with the issue. The wobble is caused by a combo of frame stiffness, weight balance (forward rear), and suspension adjusted to the correct rider weight. Any of those 3 things getting to far off and any bike will wobble. Also have a dual star that i rode for all of 20 minutes before leaving on labour day vacation that with stock suspension setup had a little wobble to it. Both hoping/assuming when i get back today and, set the suspension to my weight, it it will fix things.

[@benhartland4708]

correct, that's how i addressed the wobble issue on my wired freedom...these bikes are very similar has nothing to do with the frame it's about the weight distribution.

[@diysolaradventures7894]

What action camera did you use for your video I like how its not so close up on everything..

[@VSlim45]

Thank you! I switched from the insta 360 x3 to the Osmo Action 4 by DJI. It's a great little camera.

[@blown9646]

They all will death wobble with weight in the rear. Transfer as much of that weight forward as you possibly can and that will help significantly. Pick the bike up from the seat tube frame and you'll easily understand the issue. Also, the bms will shut it down when too low voltage. Figure 55-56v is basically done with any throttle twist pulls

[@Whoadayson]

I did see something that made a little bit of sense about the weld in the rims playing some part, but I never looked into it further. Regardless, the awesome innovation of Cane Creeks Hellbender headset is a marvel that solves all manner of issues up front!

[@josephking7021]

Good job. Learned a lot. Did you ever get the wobble under control? ,

[@VSlim45]

Thank you! I need to do some more riding, I think it may have had to do with air pressure in the front tire. But I'm not certain about that yet.

[@VSlim45]

It was the stinkin air pressure in the front tire. I hate to admit that, it makes me seem pretty stupid. But once I pumped it up from 15psi to 20, the wobble went away. Can't believe it was that easy.

[@diysolaradventures7894]

I love watching this video what's your bike's wattage voltage and battery amp hours ?

[@VSlim45]

It's a 60 volt, 35amp hour bike. The specs are listed on ecells.com, "dual star". Thank you!

[@EuroYank]

I really enjoyed your video, Slim, mainly because I just did your ride in reverse! Last week I rode out to Lake Casitas from Carpinteria on my 48v, 14ah bike. It’s a great bike, fast around town but not much on distance, especially due to my penchant for excessive throttle. As you know from your ride down to Carp’ from the lake, it is generally steeper than the ride up from Ventura, so by the time I got to the Lake I was down to 42v, had the same on/off issues until it died completely. I pushed it for an hour up those sections with no bike lanes before swallowing my pride and calling a friend to come and get me. I’m sure all the acoustic riders who passed me got a well-deserved laugh but at age 78 I wasn’t offended: I shoulda known better! That’s the bad news. The good news is I have over 4K miles on the bike so it motivated me to order a new 52v, dual battery bike with 27.5 - 3” road tires, rated for 100+ miles. PS: the comments about rear-mounted batteries causing wobble are well documented. My new bike has both batteries mounted on the down tube so I don’t expect any instability. Ride on, amigo!

[@VSlim45]

Lol. I can see them laughing at you as they passed you, I bet they really enjoyed that. 😂😂 thank you for watching!

[@freightdawg6762]

Beautiful ride Subscribed, what kind of pants were you wearing? looking for loose fitting riding pants

[@VSlim45]

Thank you! They're just a pair of Reebok workout/sweatpants. Light enough to ride in and not be bothered, but still keeps me warm on those early morning rides.

[@AKJJSIM]

The battery management software is saving you from damaging your battery. Yes you had 20% something left BUT taking these batteries below that damages the cells.

[@VSlim45]

Thank you! I did figure that out eventually 😂

[@Whoadayson]

@@VSlim45 Note that also applies to fully charging cells and leaving them in that SOC for any amount of time. Its always good to take a few laps around the block to knock down that first 10% if possible, or charge it right before you plan to ride, but that can be tough to plan. Disrupting the charge before reaching full is a solid way to add longevity too, buuut that can also add a level of inconvenience that overshadows the whole point of an ebike - to have fun! *Im leaving this for anyone who comes along that may not know, as Im sure you have already come upon this info when learning about the lower V cutoff!

[@robbietilton6254]

My guess is the wobble is do to high center gravity and the fork would be better under the wheel axle

[@Ebikepowelevel5]

Never had a problem with my wired cruiser i got over 400 miles on it

[@sonofevil77]

and they bash the Wired Freedom for the wobble. Wired sent me a Hellbender headset and now its gone. I want a Dual Star as well.

[@jfly2249]

Wouldn’t do that, Wired has 1000 more watts and according to Wired, has a no e cells exclusive contract with Canes Creek. Not to mention pending full certification to UL 2849 standards and a thru axle.

[@mikewills5513]

How are they getting 1000 more watts ?

[@jfly2249]

@@mikewills5513Wired uses a brand new proprietary potted 45amp controller that peaks at 50amp (67x50=3350). E cells peaks at around 2300. The Wired bikes have almost 50% more power.

[@stxrobstar]

​@@mikewills5513 the Wired controller pushes more amps.

[@mikewills5513]

You can get a 1000 more watts with 5 more amps? Do you think that is causing the overheating and the bike to shut off. The video I saw the bike was running 250 to 280 degrees that can’t be good on batteries or the motor not to mention the controller.

[@robertford2064]

I’m waiting for my e-cells dual star to arrive. I bought it for more performance and longer distance. I have another e-bike that’s from different manufacture. It’s a 52v, 20 amh battery, 750w motor and the handle bars starts to wobble when I let go of them as well. Is the tire balanced at speed? Look what happens if you don’t get your tire balanced and you get on the freeway. The wheel stars shaking. I think the same is happening on a e-bike at speed, they start to shake.

[@ScottGunMag69]

I have not experienced any wobble with my single battery regular fork 5 Star after 750 miles. I got it in June, and I love it.

[@TeddysVentures]

Thanks for another great video and real-world range test. 60+ mile range is realistic for varied conditions and routine PAS2 & throttle usage. You probably know now that you were hitting the 52v cutoff. What do you weigh if you dont mind me asking? Rider weight makes a huge difference in range. Make it a great day!

[@VSlim45]

Thank you! Great point, I definitely should have mentioned that in the video. I'm 6'2", 180 pounds. I'm very happy with 60 plus miles with that type of terrain. Yeah, I figured out the bms (battery management system) kicks in around 52 volts. If I'd have stayed in PAS 1 or 2 and not used the throttle, I could have gotten a little more range.

[@TeddysVentures]

@VSlim45 true, but PAS1 is no fun, lol. I am 100lbs heavier than you so my mileage will probably be more like 50miles but that is still good overall.

[@craigslist2678]

In Cali we don't prefix highway numbers with "the". We just say 101 or hwy 101. "Take 101 to 5" ..very efficient

[@Raul-z8g]

Thanks for posting this, Slim. Plenty of KZbinrs have claimed the regular Five Star -- with the standard front fork and single battery -- has no wobble, and I believe them. But like you, I have a Dual Star, and it's a different beast. I really like the bike, but dammit, I also have the wobble issue. Mine seems a little worse than yours. I notice it kicks in around 16 - 18 mph and lasts through about 24 mph. Above that, it seems steady when riding no handed, but I'm not confident enough to ride it that way for very long. Rough roads bring out the wobble sooner, but I've experienced the issue on all paved surfaces. I'm going to try adjusting the front and back suspension again, and will see if I can eliminate the wobble with just the main battery installed. Fingers crossed.

[@VSlim45]

Thank you! Good luck, hopefully that helps with your wobble. I think the extra weight in my pack may have contributed to the wobble issue. 🤔

[@jfly2249]

Get a Hell Bender headset. It’s just physics and strapping 15lbs on a rigid rack on a 4 bar suspension is going to be an issue. The Freedom and e cells are virtually identical except for the powertrain, so of course the dual star will be the wobble star. I would bet the dual battery step stars are going to really unstable unless the 24 inch wheels make a difference. You can always take the second battery off as you still get great range with just the one.

[@Whoadayson]

@@jfly2249 Hellbender is a very clever product even if you dont have the wobble its going to smooth some things out!

[@Xtrafix2015]

The same thing happened to me with my himiway crusier when it hit a bump until I recharged it to capacity and didn’t trust the gauge but tried to remember to keep it charged and not leave it low for a couple weeks

[@heavenlyblue]

Am watching your video now - the cutting out sounds like it could be a loose connection somewhere between 2 wire cable connectors where they connect. Try checking all your wire cable connectors. You may see this problem more when you hit a bump. Just a suggestion and I am not a mechanic.

[@VSlim45]

It was actually the BMS (Battery Management System) that had kicked in at 20%. I didn't know that at the time, and it happening when I hit bumps was coincidental. I needed to stop using throttle and stay at PAS 1 or 2 only. Pulling any more power than that will cause it to shut down.

[@st1nkh3ad]

any wobbling is suspension settings or unbalanced load which you have on the back

[@roxythorphotography]

Great video

[@stuwest3653]

Move your hand position forward to add more weight bias to the front wheel.

[@benhartland4708]

i will now link this vid and the clip of the wobble to every idiot who ripped on my new wired freedom purchase....except wired provides a hellbender, thru axle, more power AND is about 500 cheaper!!!

[@Whoadayson]

I get it but I doubt thats gonna help. Most of them were paid influencers in one way or another, or just misled by said influencers! We do need to push back against the censorship within the Ecells FB group though! That SHOULD say alot to ppl who arent paid but who are that level of fanboy (this logic applies to any company fanboys)

[@Stormtrooper70]

Hmm, don’t understand where you get that wired freedom is 500.00 cheaper. Wired is actually 600.00 more after you added in shipping and handling. I’m not saying wired is a bad bike just showing that your price difference is wrong.

[@benhartland4708]

@@Stormtrooper70 2k plus tax plus shipping (depending on your location). i live illinois and did the hour commute to pick mine up. so with our ten percent tax 2200. the dual star for me would have been 2700 plus 270 tax so 2970. 700 dollars more. they're both great bikes, for the money i'd rather have the extra power of the wired and the thru axle.

[@Stormtrooper70]

@@benhartland4708 ohh ok, did not know you lived in Illinois. I bought the Ecells dual star, which comes with dual crown forks. I purchased the added gold rims with the torque sensor and it included shipping and handling for 2433.00. They now have the through axle as well and no longer use the quick disconnect. But both are great bikes..

[@BobRobertson-q7f]

Hi there the power loss could be a battery bms that is of lesser value amppage than the controller

[@coreyalexander4766]

Dudes leaning back and wondering why the bike is wobbling while also having his hands off😂

[@VSlim45]

Lol, thanks for watching. No, I wasn't leaning back. I had more weight in my pack on the rear rack than usual and I think that's what caused it. Thanks for the comment. ❤

[@coreyalexander4766]

@@VSlim45 for sure that’s the reason. Wired freedom death wobbles just riding it with no extra weight

[@jfly2249]

⁠​⁠@@coreyalexander4766not true, only if improperly set up but there is a free Hellbender headset available. What is e cells solution? Conceal and silence. Should make you feel queasy.

[@JohnBabcock-qy1cs]

Did I ask you your thoughts on the new Monstar? Maybe you weren't aware of the latest model using dual hentech 1,500 motors.

[@VSlim45]

It looks amazing!

[@legion-t5j]

Hi what kind of voltage cheat sheet do u use? Thx

[@VSlim45]

I just googled "voltage to percentage chart " and took a screen shot.

[@FreakyT333]

The career path you need to be taking is some kind of sports commentator or news broadcaster. The wobble you’re getting is very likely weight balance. I’d check all your bolts and screws of course but I bet if you take half that load off the rear and transfer it to the front it won’t wobble. The cutting out is prob just dead battery, those cheat sheets help but each system will have its own cut off parameters, likely just saw enough voltage sag to trigger cut off. When battery gets that low just use pas 1/2 and limp home.

[@VSlim45]

Lol, if I had a nickel for every time I heard I should've been a sports commentator...😂 Thanks for watching!

[@CharlesHouston-y5r]

The have it set up where it cuts out before you run it all the way down mine does that to there is a setting in there you can change i think it is 12 but not for sure but i never tried it if you try it share it have agood day nice video

[@davestevis200]

Good to know. It's smart to leave this in place actually. If voltage sag pulls you down to 49v while under load it can damage the battery. Probably best to just respect the battery bar as it's set up. If you are running low it's definitely best to keep in PAS1 and put a lot of pedal power down.

[@CharlesHouston-y5r]

Yes i was wondering if you could maybe drop it down a little to get home

[@alanhoots6032]

Would be nice to know if there's a setting. If you lowered it while stuck on the trail. It may get you home.

[@MrBalas3]

In case I missed it. Are you going to get a torque sensor from E cells or purchase one from elsewhere to add to your bike. Also, to you feel that a torque sensor is helpful on hills or makes no difference?

[@VSlim45]

I'm hoping I can get one from ecells, but I'm not sure yet. The torque sensor makes it feel more realistic. If your pushing hard, it helps more, cadence sensor just gives you all the power when it activates.

[@MrBalas3]

@@VSlim45I have a cadence sensor on my current e-bike a Biktrix Kutty and I can’t stand the ghost pedaling. I tried the Ecell bikes at an Electric Expo recently. They had both. I enjoyed the torque sensor overall even though there was only a slight difference cause we could only ride the bikes up to 20 mph. Your bike constantly loosing power at the end of your ride is annoying to see when you technically have more battery life. Same issue is going on with my bike (granted my bike is 4-5 years old, but has less than 1000 miles on it. Gives me trepidation to purchase an ECells bike for approximately $2800.

[@VSlim45]

​@MrBalas3 I'm not sure yet what happened. I think it was just very low on power so it kept cutting out when i used the throttle (which uses full power) i think if i would've kept it on PAS 1 or 2 only and just used the cadence sensor, i would have gotten a mile or more than i did. 62/63 miles with the climbing I did is pretty good if you ask me. Worth every penny.

[@MrBalas3]

@@VSlim45Not only that, you were pedaling at times a 100 lb + bike with no power too😅

[@marklatham1414]

It's probably wobbling because you have lots of weight on the back.

[@VSlim45]

I did have more than usual on the back on that ride.

[@Whoadayson]

I appreciate you posting this, I think the bike looks great but I also think that Wired looks great too, Both seem great. What I don't like is Ecells dirty marketing tactics and smear campaigning instead of just making a better bike for the same price like Wired. I think it's ridiculous that Ecells made up the term DEATH Wobble, how many people have died from shaking handlebars? This in no way is pointed at you, its just that Ecells banned ppl who posted this video to the FB owners group, which is a sign of major censorship issues that align with my issues of ecells marketing tactics. I truly hope your enjoying your bike, just as I hope the same for Wired customers. I just hope the division stops, again, notby you, buy mainly by ecells influencers. Have fun mate! Dont be silenced when Ecells owner asks you to delete this video!

[@VSlim45]

I absolutely love this bike! I rode again today without my rear pack and had no issues. I agree, unfortunately ECells has focused a little too much on slamming Wired instead of just focusing on their business. They make great bikes and I think anyone watching my videos would know I'm in no way slamming ECells or their bike. It was removed from the FB page, but I don't know why. That's literally what the owners group is all about. We can trouble shoot and help each other. But not if we get our posts deleted or banned from the group, it's unfortunate. Oh well, I still love this bike and would buy another one in a heartbeat!! 😊

[@Whoadayson]

@@VSlim45 I respect your very reasonable POV and Im glad that your loving your bike! That was my thoughts from the start that they both make great bikes. It was just sad to see the division being employed, which wasnt solely Ecells ppl, but a very small but overly vocal minority from both groups but man were all just ebike lovers and we shouldnt be comparing bikes from a 'mines better' standpoint as they both really do make solid products. Thanks for replying. I hope Im wrong about the last sentence of my comment before! Cheers and have fun putting those miles in it! Ill be watching for more fun vids!

[@SnodzillaSportsCards]

Did they delete your video in the Facebook group?

[@VSlim45]

I believe so..😢 😅

[@SnodzillaSportsCards]

@@VSlim45 unreal. It would have been nice had they addressed it. I'm starting to second guess my order I have with them.

[@VSlim45]

The bike is a great bike, and it is better quality than the Wired. However...customer service at ECELLS is damn near non-existent. As long as you don't need any warranty help, ECELLS is a great bike.

[@jfly2249]

And this is why you should buy Wired. They don’t cover up issues, they fix them. Wired has the entire supply of hell bender headsets and the next several months of production with a clause that says they won’t sell to e cells. If you can find one, it will solve your problem. Nothing you can do about Cleveland but now you know why they get a F rating from the BBB. E cells also had issues with the shock hitting the battery, a torque sensor that does not work and is no longer offered, a Gates Drive that just showed Cleveland ignorance, and reports of the USB port frying phones, loose magnets, faulty controllers, and pedal strikes, but all of these are quickly covered up by the e cell cult. They don’t collect taxes and this is not going to end well.

[@pluthsteve]

If it's not your battery, next step is to check for overheat. You were riding for what, 4 hours? Next might be a loose contact, maybe in the battery cradle.

[@VSlim45]

I think I just ran it out of battery, I'll have to look into a better voltage/percentage chart. 62 miles is pretty impressive given the amount of climbing I did. Yes, just a bit over 4 hours. Thank you for watching!

[@jfly2249]

Of course the dual star has a wobble, looks worse than the issues Wired was having. You could always get a Hellbender headset if you want to ride no handed. Try fully inflating your tires and put more air in your rear shock in might help a little. Can’t believe Cleveland hasn’t called you to take this video down yet, I’m sure he will.

[@benhartland4708]

500 bucks more, no thru axle, less power and not as nice looking as a Wired :) glad i went with my Freedom!

[@dawhoda1]

Inflating more Tire pressure is a Surefire way to increase death wobble, even while fully gripping bars on my freedom.

[@nealharmon954]

Interested in your video, but your camera quality is very poor, maybe a settings check. Good luck to you.

[@VSlim45]

Ok, thank you

[@emaguigad]

Leaving that dollar for someone else to find isn't a good idea. Haven't you heard in social media what's been going on when people find some random money only to find out later that it was laced with fentanyl or some other dangerous chemicals? No point in that idea....just wasting your dollar bill....just sayin

[@SirWrecksy]

I'm so glad I dodged a bullet not buying a Wired bike... wobble problems, overheating, poor throttle control, horrific warranty and customer service Yeah I'll take this bike any day. Got one coming in a couple weeks

[@MrBalas3]

Well I’m watching his video it looks like it has wobble issues to. But I still want one 😊

[@VSlim45]

Enjoy! It's a great bike.

[@sledhead904]

@@MrBalas3 I'm trying to film an in depth review I have both brands. Stay tuned

[@jfly2249]

It’s 1000 less watts, costs more, and wobbles worse😂😂😂

[@SirWrecksy]

@@jfly2249 More wattage that overheats, cost the same or more after insurance and delivery fee, bullshit warranty one year not two that specifically says do not ride in class 3 plus or no warranty, severe wobble at all speeds, throttle is on or off no in between, cheap materials, poor rear design, customer service is nasty and blames the wobble on you and expects you to retrofit and fix the problem yourself, customer service bitches out people for complaining and don't take phone calls, copied e-cells frame and potted electronics All this and it only goes 2 or 3 mi faster. Yeah no thanks

[@st1nkh3ad]

you need a real horn so people can hear you I wouldn't even pay attention to that

[@DaveGonzales-qz4ks]

lol , Ecells king of Death wobble. Wired you have bump the handle bar for it to wobble, Ecells wobbles regardless. The Ecells taliban group will try to cover this up. Well Ecells owner wanted to copy the Wired bike so guess now they copied wobble and battery cutout Everything. 😅

[@jfly2249]

It does seem worse and much easier to start. The really funny thing is that Steve from Wired told me they bought over 5000 headsets and have an exclusive so Cleveland can’t copy Wired again. In other words, there is no fix for the e cells dual star death dance.

[@Whoadayson]

Thats what trips me out the most is just how gullible ppl have to be (or paid, which of course many youtubers are, as we saw many make a hard left turn to be Ecells salesmen about 2-3mo ago) to believe the marketing BS coming outve the Ecells camp (not really the camp, just the owner - the rest say what he tells them to). I mean, we saw Citizen with the Wired 24+ and a few other yt'rs had the 24 but its not even comparable to how much marketing hype Ecells puts out there! In comparison, Wired is akin to a church mouse! The final straw for me (as to why Ill not buy any Ecells items, as much as I think the products are solid, same as Wired, until they course correct their marketing ethics) was how he put the smear campaign into play against Wired, but whats so hilarious is how Wired just brushed it off and kept doing there thing, like the Hellbender fix! The Hellbender exclusive was smart, especially when we know what Ecells owner wouldve said some BS about Wired copied me. I mean does truth and reality mean nothing anymore, or is all that matters if confirming our own bias? Do people EVER do their own research from UNBIASED sources anymore? This is the exact same issues we have in the highly polarized, anti reality, echo chamber driven, falsely self righteous, near one sided media, political realm. If people would just REQUIRE ACCOUNTIBILITY to what was said and claimed, then a balance would exist, and STOP letting the vocal minority be the 'trusted source' somehow, in this clown world! (Was that too much 😁 What can I say, you struck a chord)

[@jfly2249]

I don’t think I have ever seen a company or a person as unethical and slimy as e cells and its ex con owner who has literally the worst resume in the history of business. So much hot air and lies from that man it is stunning. A lot of people are going to be left holding the bag when e cells implodes or the Owner goes back to prison. How are they going to fix all the Wobble Stars going out? Going to be a lot of returns and canceled orders for the dual stars when word gets out and then what happens to all those suckers who gave e cells their money five months ago and will get a claim in bankruptcy instead of a bike.

[@sledhead904]

my wired randomly cuts out as well, shittier controller is what i think

[@sledhead904]

also, of course the ecells wobbles its swing arm still flexes, just not as much. These are the super monarch frames, dudes a genius, he had us all hyped to buy up his old stock of frames. Meanwhile the Kings crown and Monstar were brewing. The Monstar, single motor will be the new five star from what I gather from Dave. That being said I will be selling the five star going for a dual motor monstar in the near future. lol. What was misleading is he announced the dual 60v motors along side the stepstar offering is as a $3500 bike, not saying it would be a whole new bike. lol Well i'm sure the dual motor step star is coming too. This is just the beginning I imagine. Also, the wired has nowhere near the options or future upgradabliliy. If you get the ecells you will be able to get a 60a controller later, convert to dual star with air fork and rear battery, convert to dual motors.. the future upgrade part is really really cool being that the bike is an amazing starting point.

[@MrBalas3]

@@sledhead904I have to agree with what you’re saying there. Especially about the Monstar (I noticed Dave quickly mentioning the price on that in his video). My issue is more options just further and further that I am willing to pay. Options come with a price 😢😅.

[@macs4887]

Wired Ebikes suck, and so does Steve,

[@VSlim45]

Lol

[@mikebordeaux8218]

Go back to blowing Dave 😎

[@benhartland4708]

My new, wobble free Wired Freedom will leave any stock dual star in the dust...anyone local ecells riders in Chicago are welcome to come shoot the vid with me and we'll post it here :) Nothing against ecells, they're nice Wired is just a step nicer...or step thru depending on which model!

[@Whoadayson]

@@benhartland4708 Thats one thing that Wired has in spades over Ecells - You get more stock, no pricey options, no price increases (yet)! Oh and alot less BS marketing hype and smear campaigning which Ecells has its own factory!

[@mikebordeaux8218]

E-Cells are trash, save your money.

[@Nathan-gn3ls]

You don't want to buy a bike from a coked up used car salesman?

[@mikebordeaux8218]

@@Nathan-gn3ls , exactly

[@jfly2249]

To be fair, he sold manufactured homes before serving 12 years in prison, where did he get his bike expertise from? He’s just a crooked con man who ripped off Wired.

[@Whoadayson]

@@jfly2249 You would think that would matter to people who are Ecells fanboys (the unpaid variety, at least I understand the paid varieties)? I mean I like the products from both Wired and Ecells (for now) but the marketing ethics and likely ethics in general coming outve Ecells is horrific, but whats worse is how gullible people are who push his BS for him. Dude, just do like Wired and shut up and sell good bikes! How hard is that?