Dungeon Master PUNISHES Player For Playing Cleric

[@LockonXDynams]

A tip for all the DMs out there you can always just say no to a character idea before the game starts

[@mqfii8992]

Apparently 75% of DMs forgot to invest points into the Common Sense trait.

[@zacharysieg2305]

Only thing I can think of is that he has such a hate-boner for clerics that he allows players to play them specifically to punish them. …which, holy shit man, I hope no one is that driven.

[@sarsapong]

Yup I say no to a guy who “I just wanna play cannibal “ in my no evil alignment campaign

[@michaelleader633]

It's almost essential, especially when dealing with a new player. I've had people try to smuggle in artifacts at level 1, skills listed inappropriately for the character level, and created a relationship with a powerful npc that would clearly unbalance the campaign lol.

[@mqfii8992]

Funny story: In a Naruto homebrew, I played a character which was similar to Rock Lee and Might Guy In which they couldn't use "Magic" and "Illusion", only melee, however, In personality, he was basically "Good Guy" Raoh from Fist of the North Star. Well, DM had a DMPC which was the exact same archetype and he made my character's life hell, by hindering or barring any sort of progress and making his edgy Gary Stu OP as heck. Little did he know, this actually made my character better and more likeable by comparison, since the other players empathized with his struggle and had way more fun interacting with him rather than the DMPC whose sole redeeming quality was his strength. EDIT: Oh, and if you DARED to criticize his character, he'd write entire multiparagraph essays about how wrong you are and why his character Is not boring, annoying or lame.

[@rudolfaligierski3043]

9:30 dude just told he is a mountain inspector to the FIRE elemental. Of course she believed him... And promptly freaked out and attacked him due to the fact that she IS a fire hazard after all...

[@faithrabbit4330]

"I'll kill my own character if you don't let me play the way I want! >:o" And nothing of value was lost

[@wizardswordfish5875]

So that mountain inspector story. Perhaps I am just so clever but the best option would have been for the fire elemental to believe them. But it knew the temple and mountain were not up to code. So it gets nervous as it doesn't want to pay a fine or be foreclosed. So it asks them to leave. If the party insists they can fight. Same outcome for your fight but makes the party have some choices

[@lifeofhonour]

Lol yeah came here to say this as that fire elemental would have need at least +20 (plus whatever bonus ops deception skill is) to beat it and see past the lie, GM should have RPed the reason for the attack to give more context.

[@wizardswordfish5875]

@@lifeofhonour the fire elemental doesn't take good care of it's temple and is a libertarian. Won't let any government inspectors in without a fight *takes out don't tread on me flag* Persuasion type rolls don't always mean doing what the players want. But it totally should have believed that they were inspectors

[@radicaldreamer927]

I commented that the DM could have made it so that the elemental completely fails to ascertain their true motives, but is instead thoroughly convinced they're there to kidnap and enslave her to convert their keep into a moving one, very reminiscent of Calcifer, but I like the "Don't Tread On Me" flag-waving fire elemental a bit better lol

[@theofficerfactory2625]

Story 1: Why problem player, why?! What did they do to you? Story 2: What is this DM’s problem?!?!? Story 3: Oh, pathfinder! Why GM? Are yer that inflexible? Story 4: What? Consequences? What’s that? I can do whatever so want!!! If you punish me then, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll leave!!! Yes people,like and subscribe or Simba’s judging gaze will judge ye for eternity! Story 5: Wow. That was quite bad for unfortunately, unknown circumstances.

[@PaladinGear15]

Divine classes often get screwed over in D&D, it's so stupid. I saw an online D&D game that was recorded, and after one of the party members died, the Cleric prayed to his god for answers, asking why he'd be taken, but despite successful rolls/spells to communicate, his god chose to completely ignore him, and after a bunch of that, he took off his holy symbol for the night out of frustration, but when he put it on in the morning, this level 14 cleric had all of his powers completely removed as the DM explained the god was utterly infuriated that he dared to take off his holy symbol as he slept. He never got his powers back.

[@wargriz8213]

I have a hard time believing anyone had the DM break their holy symbol that many times before saying something.

[@brianvance1178]

If I was playing a cleric with the dm who hates clerics, and kept preventing me from playing my character out of spite, might have killed the prick after the second time my holy symbol broke

[@h0ly208]

My friend is playing a homebrew "cancer wizard". His backstory is that he discovered his healing abilities at a young age and became his village's healer. Unfortunately he healed them all a bit too good, and the regenerated cells started multiplying into tumors. His party thinks he's just a crazy wizard dude that heals the enemies he *really* doesn't like.

[@BigPuddin]

Go on, Tiny Dancer, give em cancer.

[@DarthJudicar22]

If the DM in the mountain bluff story really wanted a fight, they could’ve said that the Elemental has violated the law and was trying to cover it up. Party: Mountain inspectors. Elemental: Crap, I’m not up to code, I better kill them and sweep it under the rug.

[@realdragon]

I'm not sure if I would like that idea specifically because players tried to avoid fight, made check, fire elemental failed check and it would result in fight anyway. If no matter what they roll wouldn't change anything then why roll in the first place

[@conspiracypanda1200]

@@realdragon A good sense of humor can often take the edge off these kinds of forced encounters though. If the DM then kept up the panicked characterization for the elemental throughout the fight it could have made the players more eager to attack just to hear the enemies freak out about the fantasy cops being called. Unfortunately, that would require at least passable improv and comedy skills, which I doubt that particular DM had.

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

"My character retires, and I bring my new one, a Cleric from the God of Apathy, who cares not for what you do as long as you don't feel too invested in what it is."

[@universalperson]

"My Cleric converts to the worship to the God of Evil, and starts attacking people. But it's what my character would do!"

[@ShiKageMaru]

My guess is that the cleric hating dm has an extremely rigid and narrow assumption of what "a god" would tolerate. They probably think all gods fall into a super strict reading of the rules and thus believes that clerics can't function in dnd... or he's just a dick. I feel like the OP should have tried arguing "that's not how my goddess views these behaviors." And at least they could have figured out sooner if the DM was too rigid or douchey to work with or not.

[@tsifirakiehl4250]

First story: The title really says it all. You shouldn’t let anyone play your character for you unless you’re absolutely positive you can trust them. Too bad OP had to learn that lesson the hard way. Second story: Pro DM tip-if you don’t want a specific kind of character at your table, DON’T OKAY THE CHARACTER! Okaying a character, then passive-aggressively punishing the player for it isn’t fair. You can’t get mad at your players for breaking rules they didn’t even know existed! If a player comes to you with a character concept you don’t want in the campaign, tell them that that concept doesn’t fit with the game you’re running, and give them some suggestions on what they might want to play instead. The player can then either rework their original concept to make it fit, or they can come up with a new one. If they’re dead-set on playing that specific concept and nothing else, they’re not the right player for your table. Third story: It’s totally fine to have unavoidable combats, but if a player indisputably wins an opposed skill check, at least give them some concession! Maybe the fire elemental hesitates for a moment, then realizes how ridiculous the lie was and attacks as the party moves on. Maybe she falls for the lie hook, line, and sinker, but she hates mountain inspectors and attacks them on sight. Or maybe, if it was impossible to lie to the fire elemental, the DM should have just not let OP roll! Fourth story: That guy: “Do what I want or I die!” OP: “Okay, you die.” That guy: *surprised Pikachu face* Is it just me, or has that guy seen Blazing Saddles too many times? Fifth story: Oof. Good on OP and friend for noping out of that situation!

[@asioca1992]

Story 1: Letting someone else play your character is something that's reserved for only people that you can trust not to screw over yourself or the rest of the party. At least the DM had enough common sense to retcon the situation after the fact and give the new guy the boot after it became clear that he was that guy who was only in it to grief the other players. Story 2: Yeah, I can't blame OP for leaving tbh. If you're going to be punished for playing a character, or from actions that you yourself never even did, then it's clear that the DM doesn't want your character in their campaign. Why the GM didn't just tell OP to play something else is beyond me, I can only guess that it was so he could watch OP twist in the wind until he got fed up enough to leave. Story 3: If a high roll vs. a low roll doesn't change the outcome, don't even give them the option to roll. It's really that simple. Story 4: Yeah, not really sure what that guy was expecting. Did he really think that anyone would've wanted to deal with his character after he tried to screw up the rest of the party's plans? Story 5: Man, things escalated quickly here. At least OP was smart enough to GTFO and watch the situation from a safe distance away.

[@stevenhowe7308]

DM from my last huge game couldn't let anyone else play my character. I kept my character sheet, not him. It's my character, not his.

[@soultpp]

Another day, another awesome Doge video! For the first story, I've had an instance when the DM played my character when I was stuck in the hospital that week. When I came back I learned that he had my character decide to nope away from the party that week because they were sick too. Honestly this was something that I would never have had my character do, she was loyal to her party more than anything else in the world, so I was a bit miffed. In regards to the third story. I have had discussions on how impossible rolls can be used to make for interesting happening beyond merely the scope of that roll (it's come up more than once since the One D&D playtests have started coming out). As long as the DM establishes (like I would) early on that there may be times when they'd call for a roll despite no chance at success but that this could have other consequences I don't see the harm. Can make for some truly interesting butterfly effect situations. And even in this case the difference in the rolls should have contributed to the situation and possibly amused the fire elemental or something, at least delayed it from attacking outright.

[@lalunafate]

Second story makes me so frustrated. I would have gotten out of there sooner too, or at least asked the DM what the deal was.

[@superiorrule34]

I would have shouted at the top of my lungs “what do you want me to do then!” And watch the dm try to justify why he hates my cleric most likely because he couldn’t do the your a cleric so you have to be lawful stupid.

[@axel4196]

Is that before or after laying him out on the floor?

[@ArawnNox]

The first story brings back unpleasant memories. I was playing a barbarian and was getting pretty frustrated with the need to use a ton of books to make viable characters in 3.5 (this is relevant in a bit). So I made a barbarian only using the PHB and seeing how far I could take it. Well, I couldn't make it to session, so they let one of the guys who was always hanging out in the store play my character. I come back the next week to learn that not only did they do this without my permission, but the guy also got my character killed and had the nerve to give me crap about my build sucking (Mind you, the the character was all of level 3 IIRC). I wasn't having fun with the game anyway so I ended up dropping it soon after.

[@dragowolfraven3806]

Happy Friday everyone. How the hell do you punish someone for playing cleric?😕

[@chariotboi5061]

Same way the Cleric simping DMs kill the party wizard because they're "witches"

[@mqfii8992]

A DM once punished my character for being overqualified for a test by artificially increasing the difficulty of the checks involved. To the degree it was almost impossible. How do I know? He deliberately said it, wanting to make things "challenging". How challenging? Same way you'd get a nurse fresh out of college and put them to perform a surgery to extract a bullet from the brain.

[@stephenadams8712]

More importantly why would you punish someone for playing a class instead of just asking them to play a different class

[@willr6887]

Lmao let my ex-DM teach you the ways. I never played a Cleric after him. I meant to kill something non-lethally, he ruled the NPC died, said my god punished me by taking away all my spells and abilities. I was a powerless melee for multiple sessions (IRL months) until I finally retired the character. The kicker was that I hosted the game each time, and I got to spend the session watching my friends have full access to their cool abilities, while I just attacked and would roll religion and fail to cast things.

[@soultpp]

@@mqfii8992 Exctracting a bullet from the brain isn't hard! The hard part is not killing the one to whom the brain belongs while you are doing so! 😁 🧠

[@nikolaiandersson6024]

Not the perfect time to talk about it but it confuses me to NO END when people have: - Players who runs off on their own - Steals from the party - Attacks NPC's for no reasons - Ruins the game for everyone who is invested in the story - Constantly acts in opposition to the party The DM: "Look I don't care if he killed the bard's lover or the Barbarian's father, and then stole all their gold no PvP allowed!" That shit just reads to me that one player can fuck with the party with no consequence. I am Glad op allowed to put a curse on the problem player.

[@tbgold07]

Fire elemental always attacks the mountain inspectors, the mountain is not up to code

[@wizardswordfish5875]

All fire elementals are now libertarians and do not want those damn government inspectors snooping in their business

[@nekospaw]

The one time I couldn't make a session, the GM took over my echo knight fighter. Next session I'm informed I now possess The Bloody End (one of the arms of the betrayer) - a morning star with a powerful demon inside, trying to force me into conquest and dominion - trying to make my half orc into the "me dumb orc, me smash" stereotype (as he keeps trying to devolve her into rather than it being an act she puts on to make life easier) and also handily preventing me taking polearm master (as I already had sentinel and had joked about it). Cue many wis saves (one of my weakest stats) to push back against the morning star, forced into taking over a small hovel (and keeps nerfing that because I started to really dig into improving it & turning it into a village), try and force me into killing enemies/starting fights, and even after a successful attempt of jamming into a bag of holding (wis save to let it go), I woke up next day with it back in my hand with no explaination. Cannot even awaken it to make it more powerful, and been told outright I cannot give in to it/Bane (multiclass into warlock/cleric/paladin). So yeah, that sucks.

[@NiraSader]

That DM was actually Patches with his hatred for clerics hah

[@vortega472]

Is it Friday already!? Thanks Doge - I had a test today and this is a nice relief from everyday stress. BTW Doge - I kept meaning to say this (since I'm usually enamored by your kitties) - I love the voice you use to represent the jerk player/DM - I instantly know they are trouble. Oh yeah and another thing - SIMBA!!! Those eyes - that cute little button nose. As always thanks Doge - See ya on Monday. And yes I still love the hat.

[@lalunafate]

Simba getting those Hypnotoad vibes today XD

[@lemonbars1576]

The fire elemental is stuned and somehow breaks into a worried sweat "I-is there something wrong with my mountain?"

[@antoinelambert938]

The cleric hating DM is just an asshole, if I have a player's holy symbol break, its because he did something really bad. Example in my egypt campaign where Anubis hates undead more than anything: a cleric of Anubis allowing the creation of undeads would lose his symbol and one helping create one would lose all powers, but raise dead To bring back an ally To life (life not undeath) is not an offense.

[@Vahktang]

A wooden holy symbol was 1 cp. Plop down a 1 gp and you now have 100.

[@AtelierGod]

Dm: you hear a massive crackling sound as all 100 holy symbols in your bag instant crack in half.

[@realdragon]

In my group a few times someone couldn't be present for the session, then we hiveminded a character and played smart to not kill them. Our druid even posted simple chart what to do in battle

[@AuntLoopy123]

Why did the DM APPROVE the character, and then PUNISH the character for PLAYING THEIR CHARACTER?!

[@fred_derf]

The group I was in that lasted for almost 20 years (before the lockdown killed it) if one of the players couldn't make a session, one of the other players played their character in addition to their own. This worked out great as none of the players was a "that guy" or otherwise toxic player.

[@jrytacct]

Isn't there a feat that allows you to bypass needing a holy symbol to cast spells as a cleric? I could swear that I came across that somewhere.

[@deepseastonecore3017]

Thanks 4 all the hard work.

[@tenshyklonik]

My first ever D&D session was a 3.0, the DM don´t allow me to participate any games so, when he calls me to play the game, I was happy... until I realize that I were going to play the cleric of one of the pc that can´t go to that session... I ask how to play and do things, when I understand how to play, I did pretty well for a noobie, so much, that the DM penalices me by cutting one leg of the cleric (mind you, i step on a MASSIVE bear trap in the midle of the road, big enough to almost cut me in half and cause 12d8+10 damage, I was blessed with a lots of 1 in that damage throw), the party where pissed and say to hit the road to go to the city so I can get healed, in the road, the party see a Black Dragon burrow and almost comand the party to attack the burrow, we fight the massive dragon, get seriously injured and killed the giant purse with a magic scroll that, I kid you not, if a creature dies by the next hit, It gets desplaced 5 feet for every hit point caused in the final damage... the archer make 27... well, the dragon slam in us and kill us, later we wake up in an Elven town that have THE BLACK DRAGON AS COMRADE AND PROTECTOR and ask us to REPAY THE DAMAGES AND THE RESURRECTION SCROLLS.... but hey, the cleric wasn´t resurrected, oh no, was reincarnated... IN AN ORC, not half orc, an actual orc, the party was pissed, i retired the cleric with a knife and that was my first and last session with that DM, ask for forgivenes to the player (he didnt care and also didnt want to play more) and, as far as I know, the game pretty died that day

[@tesuniekataren46]

2nd story: I would be the sort of person who, after the first time, maybe the second tops, I would just go "I cast X spell!" DM goes "Your symbol is broken, you can't cast spells." And I would just glare, and repeat, "I cast X spell. It happens. I am now rolling for it's effects." And then completely ignore the DM's calls of it not working, as I would just strongly insist it does work. I've... kinda had to do something similar before...

[@solarchos4352]

6:00 - Woooooow, so the character's deity expected the player to somehow "Know" everything about the people he's interacting with? The party is a bunch of murderers? The town noble is corrupt? The plants can't be harvested at all? What the hell was that DM expecting the cleric to do?! Exactly WHAT actions were permissible? 15:27 - .........ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNO-CAT!

[@coreyfogarty4469]

3:40 A major rule is to never fuck over the partys cleric either as a PC or DM due to them being important as i as somewhat of a co DM for my campaign actively promote if we dont have a claric to have a cleric DMNPC thats entirely focused on healing & support & stays permanently at their support role, screwing over the cleric as a DM means u can have much easier time for TPK's which are not fun for both the DM & the Players (but most likely this DM from the story wanted to do tons of TPK's but couldn't due to having a cleric in the party) & as a PC if u screw the cleric over they'll just stright out refuse to heal you or buff you & etc, all & all the cleric is the party's life line a class that dictates between a TPK or a close call.

[@Kaiser8513]

We had our dwarf druid running our fairy druid while her player was absent with her consent. At present we now have some scheduling conflicts with the fairy druid player so when we finished the dungeon we were in she stayed in town while the rest of the party went off to continue on with their stories. She has had a couple 1 on 1 sessions with me since then so she is still involved and when the group can meet up together again they can put their pieces together

[@fred_derf]

In the second story the DM should have had the Fire Elemental let them pass, but secretly knowing that it was doing so not because the bluff worked, but because the bluff was s bad that the elemental was curious to see what they were going to do and would keep an "eye" on them.

[@ryanrizzo4869]

Tip of the Witch hat to you, Good Doge! Happy to see you! :)

[@axelwulf6220]

About ten years prior to this comment I was with the best Ð&Ð Group I ever had, but I can only remember some good bits, one was when I had to move away and instead of killing off my Fighter~Ranger, which I was afraid was going to happen, DM said a pair of my Kingdom's guards had finally tracked me down and said my presence was requested back home. We finished the session and had an after party as a farewell tour of my character, and exchanged gear and weapons as a means of departure until our paths cross again I had lost the sheet in a couple other moves, but the character of _Ranger of Stalwarth_ would live on as a permanent character development in my world, should I ever decide to have him guest star...

[@VampireBatLord]

The few times my group and i swapped PCs for various reasons, we just got the laugh of personalities taking a total 180 and then some. WTA; our shadowlord of the group went from at ends with my Get constantly, to player proper making her cuddle the hell out of my pc instead. “He’s a wolf-he is a teddybear by default.” XD

[@johngleeman8347]

Depending on the tier of play, OP in the 2nd game could buy holy symbols by the cart load or make them him/herself. Every round pull out a fresh one and continue casting away to spite the c@#$ referee. Then restock/repair when you get back to town. Throw their churlishness back in their face.

[@SirCanuckelhead]

You could sign up for $2 shave n symbol club

[@lamiahunter]

“Role call” WoW ptsd intensifies

[@marybdrake1472]

No one but will ever play one of my characters. I am the only one that can do that job.

[@idankatz8085]

Hey doge! Great vid!

[@StateBlaze1989]

What even is that first screen name?

[@Labyrinth6000]

Love the Rosaario + Vampire Thumbnail 😀

[@wyvern723]

I had a GM like that back in college... except he punished anyone who played anything that wasn't a straight melee combat character. I made a healer in one game, and he went out of his way to torture her and have NPCs disrespect her. We had two brand new players in that game, and I chose support to make their first game easier and he made the game so not fun. In another game, I made a mage, and that just continued. If you played a warrior, he gave you cool gear, and the adoration of all the NPCs.

[@radicaldreamer927]

If the DM was so insistent that there be a combat with the fire elemental, he could have RP'd that nat 1 quite hilariously and made it work. "With this nat 1, she fails to ascertain your true motives. BUT, what she THINKS you're there to do is kidnap her and use her to convert your keep into a moving one with her powering it a la Calcifer." Like, some over the top, ridiculous, nat-1-worthy shenanigans lol

[@7thsealord888]

Story #! - Bad judgement letting your Character be controlled by a stranger. In most groups I've been in, the usual thing is to have that character temporarily become a NPC controlled by the DM. But I put most of this mess on the DM, who should have put the stand-in Player on a VERY short leash, and been ready to step in when things went south. Although I am glad that, at the very least, the DM tried to fix the resulting problems afterwards. Story #2 - If you as DM don't like Clerics, then don't have them in your game - and be sure that your group knows this. Don't punish Players for failing to read your mind.

[@thekailwolfsinshow8374]

3:35 I turned a inn into a magic item/Dungon/boss but it was at the end of the session and I couldn't be there for the next session and the impervised story arc I cuased but because my character was responsible for that arc I let the dm temporally turn my character into a NPC, they barely gave me a recap on what happened just that the party had to fight shadow clones and the guy in our party that looks like Johnny sins character (i think he's a warlock) met his mother, my magic item that was responsible for that didn't even level up😡

[@Keiji555]

For the Cleric story, I think the DM is one of those "DM vs. the players" DMs, and doesn't like that Clerics put a damper on that plan.

[@chronix7946]

That DM had more hate for Clerics than Patches from the Soulsborne games.

[@treinadordeledian7540]

These cats are so cute

[@WolfHreda]

I thought that gameplay looked familiar! Damn, I haven't played SH4 in forever.

[@stephenadams8712]

If the play can't pass the check don't make them roll

[@nekoali2]

In the first story, I put a lot of blame on the DM for letting things get so off the rails with the temporary player. At least they didn't have most of it stick, but really they should have just rewound everything and dealt with the situation before it got out of control. Sometimes you get people added to a game that are just wildly out of place with the campaign setting or group, especially if they are late additions. I would also never let a stranger play someone else's PC at a game. I've had plenty of cases where people can't make it to a game and get played by someone else there... But existing players have been around that character, they have an idea of what they like. Someone who's new to the game and never played with the group before wouldn't, so they're likely going to mess everything up, like this player did.

[@slagarcrue85]

To dnd doggie good day to you to doggie. May your cuteness originality of your character design your energy and your entertainment value all be natural twenty 20s.

[@chaos4654]

By RPGHorrorstory standards. That is a heavenly ending compared to times when an OP getting punished for their Character getting taken by some rando. Sometimes an OP has to roll a whole new PC or something.

[@Shepard0817]

It seems half of these stories are a problem of DM vs Players mentality, which should never be a thing.

[@Keiji555]

Bluff story: A nat 1 is a nat 1. Always a failure. The being could have 1000 on Sense motive, but a 1 would mean they fail... Especially when opposed to a nat 20.

[@greyrifterrellik5837]

If wondering why that DM hated clerics so much.. I obviously can't know for certain, but I would assume it's reputation. As far as I'm aware, the class has historically had an unusually high potential for game-breaking character builds. So I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more immature DMs just mindlessly hate the class as a result.

[@LucyBean42]

1st story: Dude, a 10th level AD&D character takes a ludicrously long time to get. I feel for the player in that one, the newbie took a dump on likely over a year of work to develop.

[@jasa_TheRealOne]

I've only missed a few sessions in the 3 year life of my friend group. I've told them they can use my character or at least the lithe players that have a lot of mage experience. I let them use the characters because I trust them and have known them for years. I would never let some rando touch my characters unless the DM said that the session was noncanonnical

[@dragonturtle2703]

Not me, but in a group I’m in a player can make it about half the time, so GM plays them as an NPC when they aren’t there. I assume they worked something out. It works out well.

[@rynowatcher]

That 20 versus 1 roll story I had head before. It is a pathfinder game, and bonuses get really high in pf; a level 5 character can get a +17 to a skill without really trying hard to min max. Been a while since I played, but I think in pf 1e an unconvincing lie was somewhere about a -40 to your roll. The system is all about the bonuses, and if the fire elemental were willing to hear them out, the players could choose to "take 20" to the bluff check where they would not have to roll dice at all, so the role of dice in that game are diminished compared to the bounded accuracy of 5e. All that to say, the dm asked for a roll because the system expects you to juice micro bonuses and make complicated characters that the dm was probably not keeping track of for their sanity; RAW it is mathematically possible to convince a person that the blue sky they are looking at is in fact green with proper buffs, builds, and bonuses. This is like saying a human barbarian berserker with no multiclassing not able to cast spells is a horror story; that is just the rules of the game.

[@soultpp]

I thought that PF 1e was like D&D3.5 in that you could only take 20 on rolls that had no specific consequences of failure other than just having to try again, and especially not an oposed check against another target since those always have consequences of failure. That and at least in 3.5 taking 20 took 20x as long as just a single attempt (effectively you are rolling all 20 numbers) I mean I can understand that bonuses can make for crazy possibilities like that. And situational bonuses could easily make or break a roll once they're factored into it.

[@rynowatcher]

@@soultpp rule was as long as you had 10 minutes to do it carefully, you could take 20, so you could use it in social encounters if the other person would sit and let you thoroughly explain yourself. Catch was the other guy could also take 20 to suss out if you are lying; taking out the randomness and just letting the more skilled person win. Because of the range of skill point spreads, you rarely had ties. I beleive social checks were in rounds of a minute to keep the persuasive bard from steam rolling a combat by talking the bandits down and such, so the roll was meant to condense a back and forth conversation, not just how convincing you are with that single lie. The dm called for a roll, so maybe the fire elemental was hostile to begin with? 3e&4e are the editions I know the least about, but I do know pathfinder is not 1:1 with all rules from 3e. Do not know 3e enough to tell you how at this point because it has been too long since I played. The situational bonuses would make or break the rolls too; like I said, you get a -40 to "do not trust your lying eyes," level of deception, so that might be what the dm ruled mountain inspectors as a cover story. Even so, you might be able to still make it if you have some items that contribute as magical, mundane items, assistance from the party, spells, or just character or class abilities could all help if you used them; ie your 20 die roll + 22 bluff +3 charisma, +5 eyes of eventide, +2 racial bonus to talking to elementals, +5 for the feat, +2 for the legacy feat is already at a 59, so a -40 is not a deal breaker, depending on what the other side rolls. The characters were too complicated for the dm to keep track and know what they would be able to reliably do, is all I am saying.

[@rynowatcher]

@@soultpp meh, there is a reason critics of the system called it mathfinder. Not for everyone, but my point is that the system was specifically designed to do this sort of thing so less of a bug more of a feature of the game; not really horror story material.

[@soultpp]

@@rynowatcher So that was funny. I replied to a different post on a different video totally unrelated here. 😅😱 Deleted that one now because without context it was just weird here. Yeah, I've heard that PF is pretty math intense. I do know that it was created using 3.5 as the basis for its systems but know also that it changed a lot too. Partly I think that was because of reaction to 4e releasing but I don't claim to know anything about PF specifically.

[@rynowatcher]

@@soultpp yeah, just assumed you were saying it felt cancerous and were getting a bit poetic there as a topper to the conversation. No prob. Yeah, I did not play a lot of 3.x because my group was going through all the stuff WotC released for free at the time for the BECMI through AD&D line, so I cannot give you a side by side. I think 3.5 was the base, but everything 3.x could be run in pathfinder without much conversation, so we just never looked back.

[@SirXer]

Oh glorious Simba, we should all remember to like and subscribe for such a lovely closeup!

[@sunzi42]

Second story: I would like to know the relationships in the group. I suspect the DM hating OP and wanted him to leave.

[@Nyx685]

First, SH4, wow it's been 3000 years Also I've heard the cleric story somewhere (crispy I think), jfc. Did the dm just want everyone to go full murder hobo/kill shit take loot?

[@IsilmeTuruphant]

Okay, Doge gets a like just for being able to pronounce 'Punnalackakememumu' like it's nothing. I don't care how many takes it took, my tongue started strike action when it saw that.

[@Chaosmage42]

i keep hearing the why did you let them roll for it, there is a reason, its like those video games that give you a false choice while you choice ultimately doesn't matter it makes you feel as if you are in control because you don't know the other outcomes, no matter what the results will be the same, its the sign of bad planning, if they nat one vs a nat 20 thats basically a critical success vs a critical fail and you can make up the justification.

[@sunzi42]

First story: Another Skyrim player!

[@slagarcrue85]

Nice video doggie❤😮😊❤

[@michaelcohen8259]

I have played other people's characters. I think I'm good at telling a story or following one by example. I've been entrusted with people's characters many times, because I follow the "you're not playing to 'win'" credo.

[@thomascripe9905]

Seriously with the second story there's so many ways to do this if the DM feels that lyrics are too powerful they need some kind of restrictions kind of like how barbarians or paladins used to have then that's something you discuss with the player earlier if they straight up just don't like clerics then just tell them I don't really want you to play a cleric I don't like clerics in my game I have trouble dealing with them but communicate what the f***

[@DisneyChar]

Or you could just run a fresh character as someone's friend dropping in to help while another character is incapacitated that session. Your immersion is worth derailing everything.

[@Thedragonlover95]

I see Silent Hill 4 and I approve

[@abbygleeson420]

I Hate Clerics reminds me of the good place a bit lol

[@chariotboi5061]

Ted Danson maniacally laughing as the cleric focus breaks for the millionth time

[@scottmefford6917]

I don't understand the mindset of some of these people. If you're the DM and you don't like a particular character class just ban it. Don't be a petty, childish, vindictive little prat.

[@SOGAUA]

Hello internet this is your daily dose of doge

[@koboldking7153]

i can listen to you say that first reddit username all day XD

[@amitamaru]

I don't actually mean this, but as a joke, maybe make your symbol the DM's nose then do something to break it.

[@patjacksonpodium]

Maybe it's been too long since I played D&D since moving on to other systems, but I was under the impression that, if you rolled a 1, it didn't matter how good your bonus was. I thought you just automatically failed it. So yeah, that Elemental should have believed OP automatically, right?

[@derp7738]

In 5th edition a natural 1 only fails attack rolls automatically, skill checks and saves can still pass if the DC is low enough and their modifier is high enough. In older editions it may have been that way, and the new One DnD version may change it.

[@somekindajoka6932]

Nah, that's never been the case. It's just a popular house rule. Only times it's an automatic fail ate on attack rolls

[@Sl4wt3r]

Skill checks: DMs,if it's impossible to pass, don't even make your players roll for it. Just tell them that no matter what, it's a failure.

[@Michael-fd1gx]

The roll should be for how well they fail.

[@Sl4wt3r]

@@Michael-fd1gx on the one hand, that could be a fun idea, but only in the case DM clearly says something like "there is no situation this passes, and if you want to try it, you roll to see how bad you fail." Because I can totally see any ambiguity there as the DM telling the player there's a chance to succeed.

[@frederikklotzskov9673]

What kind of kafkaesque bs is this?!

[@slagarcrue85]

Dm two you made the cleric leave the party. This game campaign is dead we all quite. Dm what a bunch of rage player. Leroy you dm.

[@viennasavage9110]

The cleric story is why I hate playing as Cleric. The DM can just choose to disable you at will and there's nothing you can do about it and it isn't against the rules. In most DND (especially combat DND) might makes right, sadly. If your character isnt some OP barb or competitively built character, the DM is free to abuse them however they want. For example, they can simply deny your persuasion rolls.

[@derajtheyuler7101]

242

[@WladcaPodziemia]

That hatred for cleric-OP out of nowhere... indicates that OP did some shit that really pissed DM off - meaby metagaming?

[@andreavasquez4355]

I don't know. The DM suggesting that Op's character should just leave the party implied that he was mad at the character. And none of the instances that OP listed had to do with metagaming or even doing anything bad.

[@RiveroftheWither]

Considering that DM wanted the CHARACTER to leave the party, rather than telling the PLAYER to leave, tells me the problem was with the character and not how op was playing. Dms with player v. Dm mindsets often have hate boners for full support casters because they make people harder to kill without straight "And rocks fall on your heads" bs.

[@andreavasquez4355]

@@RiveroftheWither I think the DM just didn't want a healer in the party to make the campaign harder.

[@DellikkilleD]

wow +21 or more to sense motive on the elemental. lmao