Tiamat, the Dragon Queen | Forgotten Realms Deities | The Dungeoncast Ep. 56

[@Eruvadhril]

"She hated him, which is the opposite pole to love, and just as attractive." -Terry Pratchett

[@Nishom0926]

Tiamat just eat those consort because her only love is Bahmut and they don't give her same feel what she imagine with Bahmut

[@Nishom0926]

Bahmut and Tiamat are just in love and extremely frustrated sexually. Bahmut just say Stop being bitch you are ok. Tiamat recognize I am Hottest Girl and stop telling me I am a bitch and most importantly stop calling me bitch

[@jameswagstaff984]

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

[@Eruvadhril]

Indifference is an *absence* of love, not its opposite. *Investment* is the opposite of indifference. In the analogy, love is a positive magnetic pole, hate is a negative pole, and indifference is a non-ferrous material.

[@jameswagstaff984]

@@Eruvadhril love is about drawing attention to something, hate is about drawing attention to something, indifference is about not paying attention to it at all, it's the same as black and white, one is all the colours wile the other is the abcence of colour using your example

[@Xyzyshi]

Rewatching this years later while I'm working on a homebrew campaign idea and I hear "Tiamat eats her babies if they show bi-chromatic traits" and I just picture an egg hatching and a dragon wyrmling popping out and just out of nowhere in this massive cavern there is an incomprehensibly booming angry voice that just yells "Usurper" and then a massive dragon head comes down and just crushes into the stone eating the wyrmling. Now I can't stop laughing at the idea that Tiamat just constantly yells usurper at babies and eats them.

[@ColtNomad]

I've been watching dragonborn, chromatic, and metallic dragon episodes to help me build my black dragonborn conquest paladin of Tiamat. I'm so excited this came out before my next session to help me even more

[@charlottewalnut3118]

rjzantow Neat

[@crokaer7559]

YAAAAAAAS DRAGON QUEEN, SLAY!!! (I'm so sorry)

[@brandoncarlson2862]

You could do some headcanon reworking for Asmo and Tiamats relationship. Just off the top of my head. You make both of them greater deities. Instead of being trapped in Baator, Tiamat sought out Baator. She was drawn to the Lawful Evil realm because just being in Baator is like being wrapped in a comfortable warm evil blanket for her. Being self serving she'd never want to leave that comfortable feeling, like not wanting to leave your warm bed on a winter morning. So she rolls up to Baator and demands territory. Asmo, seeing no benefit in conflict with another greater deity, gives her her fortress. He puts it at the entrance to the second layer and if she manages to deal with intruders, great. If not, then it's no big deal. I think it would highlight both of their personalities if Tiamat was constantly demanding things of Asmodeus and Asmo, being the god of loopholes, has to figure out a way to do as she demands but he always comes away with some benefit. Like she's just another headache for him to deal with in Baator.

[@orangexlightning]

Both a Dragon Magazine volume from the tail end of First Edition, and Fizban's Treasury of Dragons declare that Takhisis is "A Tiamat in the multiverse, but not the SAME Tiamat as say the one from Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms." They're independent of each other and killing one won't harm the other, but they are essentially different versions of the same deity in the multiverse. So Takhisis being a Greater Diety and Tiamat being a Lesser Deity is perfectly valid. On top of that, Takhisis's dragons worship her, Tiamat's do not. They respect her as their queen and mother, but about 90% of Dragons themselves, don't worship their gods because they don't view them as WORTHY of worship for a multitude of reasons. So most of her worshippers are humanoids. Takhisis however, is on a first name basis with every single chromatic dragon on Krynn, and you're only going to find maybe 5% of them actively disobey her in favor of their own agendas. Hence a large reason for the disparity in power between Tiamat and Takhisis.

[@kevinchristiansen4348]

bahamut breathes pure energy and tiamat breathes pure elemental destruction and gives bahamut pain and fulfillment. he gives more energy she gives more destruction

[@claduke]

I had this lore conception that came to my mind. Bahamut and Tiamat were essentially like Zeus and Hera, married, instead of related. Wanted to leave out the incest, just a personal preference. Tiamat went insane and wanted to take over the world with dragonkind. Bahamut preferred to let things be and care for all dragons. Bahamut has to imprison Tiamat and makes a deal with Asmodeus to do so. Bahamut despises the conception of metallic or chromatic or the distinctions, seeing it as a construction of Tiamat’s to turn dragons against each other. He sees himself as the king of ALL dragons. Instead of “hating” her, he feels an intense sorrow for her. Tiamat actually hates him, because you know, rough divorce. Thoughts?

[@Thedungeoncast]

Great world building! This is a compelling take on the Dragon gods.

[@notsae66]

Zeus and Hera are brother and sister, and married.

[@NilsHansen93]

I am running a Tiamat centered Campaign for 2,5 years now. Nice thought - will be implemented 😅 But I will chabge it to the gods perspective in my world, so the ordinary Clerics and so on will believe the "original" version 😅

[@chadevinellers5384]

The kobold gods egg was kicked from the nest early and didn't fully form. One story I heard.

[@phoenixjm83]

I love Tiamat! She's my favorite God in all of D&D! I really like the idea of flipping the Rise of Tiamat campaign for evil aligned characters! Thank you for that idea. I'd be very excited about an episode about the other members of the Dragon pantheon. I'm loving the show! You guys rock!

[@philiphamel8504]

In one of my campaigns, I had a party of mercenaries (chaotic and neutral alignments) were hired by an ancient Neutral Evil Black Dragon named Volmundred to stop the Cult of the Dragon. Because Tiamat would destroy and steal from everyone. And Volmundred didn't want that.

[@mnemonartaxerxes6977]

Tiamat is demonized in Babylonian texts. In earlier Sumerian texts she is called Nammu and is the mother of earth and heaven and all Gods, not demons or evil dragons.

[@xreaperxiii]

Tiamat was a deity in third edition, and I don't have all of my second edition books in front of me but I could have sworn she was a deity there too.

[@Thedungeoncast]

In OD&D Tiamat was not considered a Deity. She may even have been classified as a fiend at that point, but I don't recall if that's the case.

[@xreaperxiii]

The Dungeoncast here's a link to the two of her 3rd edition stats, she's a lesser deity. twitter.com/xReaperXIII/status/935006925988728832

[@Thedungeoncast]

Yes, after OD&D (1st ed) she was outlined as a lesser diety. She remained a lesser deity through 2nd and 3rd edition. In 4th edition she was outlined as a Greater deity and then in 5th she was outlined as a lesser deity again. In OD&D she was not outlined as a deity at all tho.

[@Etanexhunter16]

Just finished watching the videos on dragons and I'm so stocked this just came out

[@dougpridgen9682]

So you got beer to drink while you listen?

[@thuglyfetorkoal397]

Thank god been waiting for someone to go through the gods of dnd. Keep up the great work guys

[@Thedungeoncast]

Thanks!

[@Haunted_Gallows]

NEW SERIES, HELL YEAH!

[@BardonPlays]

My group are playing through Tyranny of Dragons at the moment. I voice recorded our last session and that'll be up as a blog on my channel. From next session we'll have cameras too.

[@Thedungeoncast]

Awesome!

[@Postmann88]

Hey Bardon, I looked for your DnD session on your channel, but I was unable to find it. Any chance you could shoot me a link? I would love to check it out.

[@mosshivenetwork117]

It's been 3 years but can I still see it.

[@TKnightcrawler]

"Now, the name Tiamat is based on the ancient Mesopotamic goddess of the salt sea. They don't really share anything in common." Let me stop you right there. In Forgotten Realms, they're literally the same thing. Tiamat COMES from Earth to help free her Mesopotamian worshippers, and later joins the Faerunean pantheon when most of her pantheon is wiped out.

[@RyuuJinLee]

Praise Tiamat!

[@franzgriffle6063]

RyuuJin4 Hail Tiamat!!

[@Zombie8tHeart]

Love the series guys! Keep up the good work

[@Thedungeoncast]

Thank you!

[@bodywhey8]

Ohhhh please don’t make us wait for Takhisis!! Please do it next/Soon!!!

[@Thedungeoncast]

As much as I would love to, I feel an episode dedicated to the Dragonlance setting as a whole would need to come first.

[@julierose689]

Doooo it! Please. I came from Dragonlance before finding D&D.

[@bravelilspidey]

@meaturama Takhisis, Queen of the Dragons, mother of all the evil dragons, powerful enough to bring an entire planet into a new dimension without any of the ocupants living on the planet to realize their planet is no longer in the prime material plane. Tahkisis is Dragonalnce, Ao is Forgotten Realms, Tiamat is just a beast dragon that seems very feral, my interpretation of Tiamat is feral animal. :(

[@aleplayer1712]

Looking to start a new Podcast inspired by you guys! Thank you very much for providing me a lot of happiness in my life.

[@Nishom0926]

Tiamat just eat those consort because her only love is Bahmut and they don't give her same feel what she imagine with Bahmut

[@viperbike2489]

This might have been the funniest episode yet

[@jacobhelt4997]

If y’all ever come back to this topic idk if you will bit there is lore bits where 1. They have another or other sibling/siblings 2. It’s theorized among scholars and mages in the lore that if bahumut and Tiamat were to procreate they’d create not only the strongest dragon to ever live but one of if not the most powerful beings in the multiverse

[@Celerott]

I'm a big fan of Tiamat and her previous Editions, but by far my favorite is The Raven Queen, she has my favorite story, especially in 4th Edition.

[@bruced648]

why is there no mention of the pact between tiamat and Vlakaath (the gith liche queen)?

[@Thedungeoncast]

We talk about it in the Githyanki episode.

[@sage_justice1383]

Only thing I hear in this that doesn’t quite jive. Takhisis is definitely Lawful Evil. She is SUPER tyrannical, but her forces have always had a very strict hierarchy, they were just not competent outside of a few Generals. It was the fact she devoted so much of her power into Mina that fit things corrected, not an alignment shift (at least Wight he novel lore).

[@eriaswright6885]

You should do a monster mythos on the great old ones

[@Thedungeoncast]

Machinations for such an episode are in progress.

[@zacksporen]

Absolutely loving all of your videos. #PraiseTiamat

[@kkelvin100]

Do Lolth next! Love you guys

[@Thedungeoncast]

We already recorded the next Deities and Demigods. Sorry it isn't The Spider Queen Herself, but Lolth is high on our list.

[@kkelvin100]

Omg, you guys replied!

[@sandwichdoctor8652]

In my campaign, I was a human who underwent a ritual where I bathed in dragon blood and replaced mine with a dragons, I was blessed by Tiamat in exchange for a favor, I become a red half dragon, I've slowly started seeing myself as better than the rest of the party, and I don't hoard gold, but instead jewels and jewelry. I worship Tiamat as a cleric and I have a plan to true polymorph myself into a gold dragon and breed with Tiamat to make the ultimate being. I believe that my DM got the ritual idea from either 3rd or 2nd edition. Also, since my campaign takes place slightly before the cult of the dragon queen, if I ever DM that session I definitely have a character that can act as a high level cultist.

[@john_wolfspain]

It was at this moment I think I seduced the WRONG dragon.

[@alexboggs6416]

In my lore Asmo is an ancient prehistoric entity of lawful evil. Basically in the beginning there was the abyss, and nothing else. Then two beings of thought took the forms of dragons and began the universe by biting each other's tails and cycling each other making law out of chaos and that began the multiverse. But they couldn't decide what the center of the universe should be. One wanted it to be where what bayator is now, the other wanted it in the heavens so they tried to pull each other in their directions but it just bit off each others tails. The good dragon had wings and flew to the heavens. And the evil dragon fell to the furthest pits of Bayator and became Asmo as a cover. That's why Tiamat is loyal and fears him. Because she knows he is a dragon god beyond all.

[@austinwilliambuchanan7487]

i killed tiamat at level 5 once. my dm gave me a homebrewed spell of dragonrend which i used to fly my wyvern mount into the atmosphere whilst being chased by tiamat. i casted the spell above a sharp mountain and watched as tiamat fell and became impaled by the mountain. it was glorious

[@mrmaat]

I would rule ( and have in PF and 3.5) that a flying creature is immune to being tripped or made prone.

[@skimp1974]

All Praise to my Dark Queen. 🥰

[@MartyrPandaGaming]

Reason why the Reds, Blues and Greens still follow her is the number 1 rule of being a kid. You DON'T disrespect your mother.

[@kylienielsen6975]

Yah I always found it weird that blues and green where okay with a God that eats and f♡(k$ her children given them being actually very loving parents. Reds I don't think would care though.

[@chaiv8182]

I'm glad you enjoy 4e too. I love tactical tabletop combat so 4e was perfect for me. Now I play this basterdized version of 5el, with lots of 4e combat elements.

[@Thedungeoncast]

Good to see some 4e love out there! Yes we carry over a few 4e rules to our 5e table as well.

[@Lopyswine]

4e was terrible

[@jefflatimer1695]

If you ever do a fantasy physics series, I would be interested in a good description of Infravision. You might refer to night vision goggles, 2nd ed versions, how undead, oozes, or non-heat entities might not appear in the infravision spectrum, etc.

[@cariocaemfuria3946]

Tiamat is actually the a goddess since AD&D.

[@TimothyMReynolds]

Tia rules Avernus in my game (Zariel having been redeemed) and claims Queenship over all the Hells - which the players have discussed but not yet investigated- basically she and Asmo are in a kind of poly relationship between ferocious peers -

[@selusasecundus5877]

I started playing 3rd > 3.5 and pf as a young child. 4th came out at the same time as wow. I saw the changes to how spells and abilities worked and i found it wanting. I didnt even get to checking out the lore to find out what they had done. 2 years ago i switched to 5th, and i am loving it. Im just starting my first 5th edition campaign as a DM. Wish me luck, thank you for your videos they have been appreciated.

[@Racc_of_House_Oon]

So, little late to the party, but in 3.5 she has AC 50 HP 906 and a Challenge Rating of 25. Hearing this, I WISH the Tiamat my party and I fought was this weak

[@HolyChaoMu]

Ac 50 is weak? 😀

[@KhannUurrr]

In my world Tiamat lost her seat in the 9th layer of hell during her first partially successful escape, and simply has no interest in taking it back. She is more powerful than Asmodeus, but has none of his ambition to rule within hell. They respect each others power and boundaries, and as part of an agreement between them to assist each other if needed he rules the layer of hell and turns a blind eye towards her attempts at escape while she has her Dragon Spawn Pits placed between the 1st and 2nd layers to kill, eat, trap, torture, ect. Any who would attempt to venture between them

[@lorenzo4637]

Brian is best hype-man

[@TraciPeteyforlife]

Tiamat could run the Nine if she wanted too. I just see everyone in the Nine figure out ways to keep her busy. Well that is until they booted her out. I guess it makes sense to boot her out. Can't really have her decide to just take over the Nine if she decided too.

[@farceFacade]

Shout out to Demogorgon! 😎

[@brandonh248]

Tiamat is the main villain in the Enuma Elish. Idk if that's common knowledge round these parts.

[@DoWhatNowQuestionmark]

Tiamat Caught Them All!

[@davidgambino7117]

When we getting that Bahamut episode? Hey serious question though: I know it’s up to the DM but you think I could run a Dragonborn multi class Paladin/Warlock and use Bahamut as Deity I have the pact with? I’ve got a cool concept for a “chosen one” silver Dragonborn

[@Thedungeoncast]

Well you answered your own question there with the DMs discretion. I would of course allow it in my game, but according to the official lore that is super unlikely. He is a god who tends to grant powers to the worthy who follow his tenants. So paladins and Clerics.

[@julierose689]

Whilst reading that I got an idea for an impossible character. Still a paladin/warlock, have Bahamut as your god and Tiamat as your patron. It would never work, Bahamut would probably disown you or that character would probably just go insane.

[@williamwendt6772]

What are your thoughts on asmodeus really being ahriman?

[@alexandersmith9144]

Well it made sense to me because she had multiple heads and rules the first layer of the Nine Hells. You can see it as Cerberus which is a multi-headed canine beast that guards the Underworld which is kind of like Greece's interpretation of Hell. :)

[@Dar2Jee]

Appears in your dreams ... like freddy krüger... after he snorted a ridiculous amount of coke

[@kevinmichaelbergman8276]

Tiamat your Mother is with us again and you All have been told BS by her Enemies.

[@llewballantine6678]

Is this series named after the AD&D sourcebook or is it just a happy coincidence?

[@MiserySage]

4th edition had minions, those were sweet, and we got Bonus action from it. (minor action) It also had long battles (yuck) and huge HP and AC for monsters... and a million mechanics to hit , kinda confusing at times

[@kevinchristiansen4348]

bahamut and tiamat are like me and my women. I destroy them by making them feel like they deserve to be worshipped then we become ultimate enemies and they feel like they need to be worshipped. then they only want me and my positivity and energy. but I cant have anything to do with them because they're become jerks

[@Scorned]

The fact that Jeremy Crawford clarified when you use a spell at a higher level spell sought that spell is treated as if it is that level leads me to believe you can use lower level spells. You just have to upcast them to six level. So spiritual weapon would still work but you have to use it at sixth level

[@charlottewalnut3118]

Io is also called Asgore I think

[@patrickmerlin2001]

Tiamat was always a goddess

[@حَسن-م3ه9ظ]

Not in the game's history, when she was first added she was just a unique dragon character

[@thomasalegredelasoujeole9998]

There Is No 4th edition. Then again, gods dont pop full power in the material realm. They manifest through avatars, so they can actually have a stat block ^^. An avatar can be comparable to a super powerful demon lord or archdevil, but in their plane they’re just beyond stats ^^

[@ASecondStory]

Thank you for that lore bit about Tiamat being the leader of avernus. Where could I find a bit more on that?

[@Ambers128]

So my bronze dragon (true polymorphed to a human and trying to return to her true dragon form) was doing the red hand of doom (5e conversion) and had this amulet of asmodeus (sp?). So when my party gets to the fane of tiamat, my character tosses the amulet onto the altar saying "asmodeus sends his regards."

[@DeusValikin]

Brother Complex

[@beepboop83]

Tiamat is Hyrem McDaniels mom confirmed

[@MisterTutor2010]

Tiamat and Bahamat twins? Must be fraternal :)

[@dadsdone3524]

That's exactly why it was so disliked, but in hindsight I personally I found a lot of the lore to be compelling and just like here in the real world we have lots of different creation myth sodas Forgotten Realms. That way I can include or exclude whatever is appropriate for the campaign. Well

[@bahamutdrakenguyen3697]

What is IO ?

[@dadsdone3524]

IO is the first God of Dragons.

[@bahamutdrakenguyen3697]

@@dadsdone3524 so who is the first god of dragon ?

[@purpleguy7093]

​@@bahamutdrakenguyen3697IO

[@axelthouin4389]

cool

[@christophernunez6070]

Xvarts please

[@rafastaszewski9391]

Cool speaking about the topic but I'm the only one that gets pissed when the other dude repeats everything?😂

[@hiromitsumoonblossom8682]

aaaaaaaaaaaaah whats that symbol on your hat from i thought fire nation form avatar but thats wrong i think aaaaaaah mtg?????? no i dont think thats it either i know that symble from somewhere dammit

[@johnhightshoe996]

Jake From Statefarm it’s the rebel alliance from Star Wars.

[@hiromitsumoonblossom8682]

@@johnhightshoe996 i feel LIKE SUCH AN IDIOT! thanks for telling me

[@shantoreywilkins651]

🐲🐲🐲🐲🐲

[@quintoncraig9299]

Give that stat sheet and I will find a way to kill her in one combat round. No seriously, I will find a way, give me the info and maybe 5 months and it will be done. (5 months because I need the info to gauge how long it will take so I'm high-balling the time required.)

[@julierose689]

You sound like my husband with his human fighter character. I read out Tiamats stat block and he sat there for a little while before saying 'yup, I could solo that.' To which I responded 'I doubt it at lvl 6. Lvl 20 then yes you probably could'.

[@Lopyswine]

How old are these guys? They are weak on old knowledge.

[@ericrobertbradley6591]

Misunderstood wooby waifu