I Testified In Court AGAINST These Dog Breeds

[@sandrahough7554]

I can’t believe anyone would promote these abnormalities. They are super cute dogs-just breed them to have a nose!! They will still be a cute, sweet dog!

[@hollyingraham3980]

They used to be cute with muzzles. They were cuter! We need to revert to the older standards.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@hollyingraham3980 My dad's pugs were just this way. He bred them in the 60s when I was a kid. (Jan Griffiths).

[@amusedBYfools]

I didn't realize these dogs even had problems.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@amusedBYfools So many breeds have problems. It's mind boggling. (Jan Griffiths).

[@differentdestiny]

Don't pugs also have a symptom where their eyeballs basically pop out? And other breeds get to a point where they can barely walk due to the deformity of their bodies?

[@109367]

Back in the early 90s my family got into breeding Dalmatians (capitalizing on the craze after Disney released that live-action remake), little did they know, because of a Backcrossing Project over a decade before, the dogs my family procured to begin their breeding project, could not be registered with the AKC. Why were Dalmatians impure and crossed with Pointers? Well, Dalmatians had issues with uric acid building up in their bladders cause by a metabolic defect, which formed into painful stones. There was no way to breed this out of the breed without crossbreeding, because every single Dalmatian had the defect. Our Dalis looked and acted just like any purebred and on top of all that, were actually healthy. But the AKC only seemed to care about purity of the bloodlines. My family really pushed, with a lot of other breeders, to have the AKC change its mind about registering these dogs from the backcrossing project, but it wasn't until 2011, long after we had given up, to accomplish AKC recognition, which is really sad. I don't really see the AKC or breed clubs changing the standards of these dogs, unfortunately, people need to STOP buying them, SM influencers especially! I've unfollowed a few now who just, went out and bought French Bulldogs, even saying they KNEW of all the health problems, "but look how cute!" it's disgusting.

[@joycebrewer4150]

My neighbor's daughter wanted a dalmatian pup after seeing that movie. He finally said ok, thinking he could recoup the price of buying her, by selling her pups. The thing was, when that pup matured, a brown stray male dog got to her before she could be bred to another dalmatian. The pups were all mutts. This happened 6 times before the dad who bought a female dalmatian gave up and had her spayed.

[@109367]

@@joycebrewer4150 That is so irresponsible, my goodness

[@joycebrewer4150]

@@109367 🤣 My neighbor didn't give up easily on the idea of pedigreed pups to sell. He tried to confine her when the dog was in heat, but like I said, the male stray found a way.

[@pmc2999]

One of the worst parts is that some dogs are made popular and everybody wants one. But they know nothing about the personality of the dog or it's needs. And after a few months the poor dogs end up abandoned or in a rescue. My friend is convinced she'll get a better dog from a breeder. I'll stick to rescues. Sadly there are many rescues that actually rescue certain breeds. Being an expensive fancy breed is no guarantee your owner won't decide they are tired of you and something more popular has come along.

[@paintbrush3554]

​@@pmc2999 yeah people are dumb, thoughtless and selfish. Tbh I know alot of dog/pet owners that go through tons of animals and treating them poorly just to move on to the next one. They take no time to research the animal or learn if its needs mesh with their lifestyle. They get what looks appealing on the surface, and whats popular. The animals have to pay but they won't stop their practices.

[@chesneymigl4538]

We had a frenchie puppy come in for vaccinations that had a reaction. Normally, an allergic reaction is concerning, but this puppy was extreme brachy even for the breed. The puppy ended up recovering well, but it was very scary watching how long it took to secure the airway and then wait for the puppy to be able to maintain it themself.

[@anpanmomdesu]

You did a great job! 👏 As for the "corticosteroid" question, tell them that you're a neurologist, not an endocrinologist. Some of those questions were dumb (hint, hint), but you were eloquent in your answers. 🥳

[@thedot66]

That guy who asked that wants to ignore outright obvious suffering and just look at bloodwork

[@LucyMorningstar999]

Another breed I can't comprehend are the micro bully dogs, they have these short unbalanced looking legs and huge heads and tank like bodies, I'm sure these poor dogs are destined for hip and joint problems, in addition to them also being one of those brachycephalic breeds.

[@FukaiKokoro]

YES 💯 Also the type of people who usually own them are that "macho" type guy who only wants them because they look "tough"

[@RoseNZieg]

I didn't realize they existed. that is disgusting and sad.

[@annferguson3113]

It doesn’t matter in the end unfortunately. Their lifespans are painful short.

[@xekis]

My sister had a boston x rat terrier. His muzzle was square rather than smushed. I thought it looked much better in addition to being better for the dog.

[@YSLRD]

In my lifetime, it has greatly worsened. As a kid, my dog breed book said French bulldogs were healthy dogs with square faces.

[@Mmmmagz]

As a prevet, I enjoy all of your content! You are definitely one of my role models in this profession 🎉

[@DVMCellini]

That is incredible to hear thank you!

[@ericarichardson2983]

Why does the akc not change the breed standard in the face of such overwhelming evidence? As long as they continue to reward breeders for perpetuating standards that harm dogs

[@lupine.spirit]

I cannot be around extreme brachycephalic dogs. I love dogs but the constant breathing noises that to me clearly show how hard it is to breathe for these dogs make me feel short of breath as well. And it breaks my heart how anyone who knows „normal“ dog behavior can see how these animals suffer. and when it’s just a tiny bit too warm they can barely regulate their temperature, causing them to almost hyperventilate, the eyes bulging, the nose dried up, skin rashes in the folds. It breaks my heart when I look at them and then to see people laugh at them literally choking for air or saying how „happy“. they look with their „smile“ when all I can see in the dogs face is defeated agony. I heard so many stories of vets and vet techs that do surgery on brachycephalic dogs who say that the dogs don’t want the air tube to be pulled. And when I imagine the horror of getting the one thing taken away that made you able to breathe properly for the first time on your life…that must feel utterly defeating for them

[@madgadgetss]

i would feel so stupid defending a practise like that. if they wanna make weird messed up dogs that struggle to do basic dog things so badly i think they should play hit video game wobbledogs

[@hollywoodshank]

proud to say my country banned their breeding (switzerland) its just sad how many overbreed animals there are and how many people dont see the cruelty i think maybe they dont see it bc the animals are seemingy 'happy' or 'lazy'

[@Aldersnap]

You did a great job! There is no way I would have been so patient haha

[@sherry3661]

I have a pug. He has a snout. Correct the breed standard to a healthy standard and enjoy your pets. Know this! Making them illegal will just increase the price and the back yard breeders…

[@karnagekarnival5127]

True, my friend became obsessed with pugs a while back and when she finally decided to have one she specifically found a breeder making kinda "tall" pugs with some snouts. Her pug hardly ever snorts or snores and she is an active hapoy lil rascal. We were surprised to see how active she is since pugs are always described as "couch potato" dogs. Turns out they move more when they arent constantly struggling to exist.

[@annak8176]

It is crazy. Not long ago I watched youtube film on how many of dog breeds looked century ago and some looked vastly different from today. Flat faced dogs are just one of anatomical changes that breeders made to many breeds. There are many more so called improvements for example German Shepards having very curved back towards back legs which can cause them significant issues with walking.

[@nicsxnin6786]

This talk fails to mention that these breeds are much different now than they were even as little as 25-30 years ago. Go back 100 or more years and it’s dramatic how different they were. The AKC and cat equivalent are directly responsible. They not only set breed standards but they accredit judges and put their names on shows that over the years have encouraged the deformities of many breeds to their detriment, not just brachycephalic.

[@fennelmaloney487]

Props to you, I live in NH and have testified at NH bill hearings and they are immensely stressful. I can't even imagine being questioned. You handled the entire time incredibly well, I've never shared a testimony where I wasn't violently shaking and stumbling over some of my words.

[@fbennett6656]

Me and some of my friends who train dogs call these dogs pre damaged dogs. They're In bad shape before you get them.

[@dana7340]

There is a similar struggle in my favorite breed: pit bulls. They’re bred poorly, randomly, bad specimens are not culled, just passed on and on and on and the puppies & “rescues” are purchased by ignorant oblivious idiots who continue to contribute to the problem. 😞

[@annonone93]

i own a brachy dog (adopted/rescue - adopt dont shop person here) I grew up with a brachy dog. While i love the demon looking abominations they are just that, abominations that should not exist. I do whatever i can to give my brachy dog a comfortable life because at the end of the day this Heinz 57 dog deserve a life, but anyone who is not considering the daily health of their brachy dog should not eve consider adopting one. I think adoption agencies needs to be more stringent on the type of people who should be able to adopt these breeds and the further breading should be banned. during my adoption process i was not asked once if i had prior knowledge or experience with brachy dogs when I adopted our brachy (Iggy). These dogs come with major health complications that a first time owner of this breed would not think is a concern. But as an owner, can you make a video for us brachy owners on the extra care we should be doing beyond the basics of socialization, exercise, and weight control/diet. (major example is the type of collar i think heavily matters for a brachy dog cuz of their trach)

[@lauramathis975]

Excited for your next video. Thank you! Agree 100%

[@karachaffee3343]

A pug dog was held responsible for the 1958 Dagenham East rail crash . It had chewed through various control and signal cables resulting in the horrific collision.

[@confusedDruid]

My chihuahua does that snorting sound that when shes excited like when someone comes home, what should I do? Should I stress this more to my vet or check with a specialist? I don't remember if I brought it up to my vet but if I did I would remember what was said because this and her wheezing while shes drinking water have been concerning me for a long time

[@GrumpiestElf]

If you’re worried, then yes, vet/specialist.

[@winstonelston5743]

I have a Norwegian Elkhound, a breed that has changed little since the last Ice Age, used for hunting moose and other big game and herding reindeer. I have had elkhounds for forty years and there hasn't been a moose attack or a reindeer stampede in the state of Georgia in that time.

[@hollywoodshank]

glad that you and other vets are so brave to speak for these animals

[@nataliegist2014]

Thanks for the information. I didn’t have a clue except for the breathing issues, what about Apple headed Chihuahuas. I had know idea the the did that to Boston Terriers.

[@annettesmith472]

I think you are a bit tough on yourself You spoke well and clarified a lot of important points. The steroid question almost sounded like he was hoping you would support his position that this was a highly stressful condition for the animals. The Pekinese she’s grasping at straws. They are nowhere as common as a breed as a pug for example so of course it’s not seen as commonly. Doesn’t mean they also don’t suffer just that it’s less likely a vet will see a lot of them at their practice. We’ve just had a second generation puggle come into our rescue. Our vets don’t think it will survive past 6-9 months without surgery to help it breathe. We’ve also already had to perform juvenile pubic Symphsyiodesis surgery on it. Someone has to hold these breeders accountable. Both registered and backyard breeders.

[@Tusskie]

The ones that exist already deserve love, but if the breeds continue,they should be allowed to breathe

[@PistachioBandit]

I have a Boston Terrier that I love dearly. He does not have the super-smooth face like a pug, he has more of a square, blocky profile with more of a snout than most and does not conform to breed standards ( looks more like the "wrong" one on in the example) . That being said, I definitely think there should be rules about breeding harmful deformities into our pets. I would hope a more reasonable bully appearance could still exist in some way but we should not have people circulating and selling animals that cannot breathe, give birth, or swim to save their own lives. We should prioritize the function, longevity, and quality of life over our aesthetic preferences, that being said I still love my bostie and don't want to see the breed disappear entirely.

[@ShaudaySmith]

only 5 minutes into this video and i 100% agree with your opening statement. Your stance is from a position of humane treatment of the canids, any breeders and AKC reps who oppose you are misguided at best, straight corrupt at worst.

[@mommalion7028]

Pig the Pug is the only book series my five year old will actually sit down for (and I’ve tried hundreds of picture books). He also ran through puppy dog pals like six times. I think pugs would be fine if they bred noses back into them, but I don’t judge anyone who buys the ones who are all deformed. It’s not great but in the scale of evils it’s not even in my radar.

[@Mandy87Marie]

I‘m a bit pessimistic about this. Even if a law passes, as long as there’s demand, there will be illegal backyard breeders creating brachycephalic dogs and cats. How would this law be enforced?

[@serenitytrek]

🐶 I literally don't have a dog in this fight - but totally support you!

[@DorcasLandry]

Great self awareness of a very very smart person …hope this analysis of your answers helps you testify again on this issue again ps send this video the eac of the legislature’s to review your point of view!

[@carinakaarli4784]

The breeder argument of only pairing healthy parents, and therefor only produsing healthy puppies is flawed as they can’t predict how the puppies will be borne, which genetics they will inherit from the parents. As soon as a medical issue becomes comon in a particular breed, then we have a problem that breeders should focus on getting rid of, not keep going and making it worse! Would you love your pet less if it’s nose was an inc longer? No I don’t think so!

[@Thecodexnoir]

Good! Include cat breeds too!! I’ve been screaming about this bs for over 3 DECADES, enough is enough 🚮

[@Dontstopbelievingman]

I hate that even if you tell people about the health issues and the cruelty, they still go out and spend $3k on a dog that is so deformed. If there is no demand, there are no sales. But people won't listen.

[@I-hate-youtube797]

They truly don’t care it’s deformed. They think they’re cute and want them anyway. Or they are delusional and think they’ll be that lucky person that gets a brachy dog that’s not sick. Either way for some strange and bizarre reason they find these deformed dogs appearance more appealing than a normal dog’s appearance. Which is strange to me. I won’t deny it, brachycephalic dogs like pugs and frenchies are adorable. But they’re not as cute as westies or Pomeranians. Both small lap dogs that fit the lifestyle of people after a dog like a pug. And both much cuter, much smarter, and much healthier. But for some reason they actually prefer the deformed faces of pugs and bulldogs etc. it’s strange but ultimately it comes down to brachy dogs being cute and people not wanting to accept reality

[@ghostratsarah]

If only humans were so accepting of other deformed humans

[@43ShaDey]

If you haven't noticed, majority of the public are stupid. Ppl put their wants and desires over all common sense.

[@validark]

There is a french bulldog breeder in Melbourne who sells their dogs for atleast 15k and the highest i saw was 60k These dogs aren't "breed standard" due to their coat colour so they can't be show dogs but this breeder can still get like 45k per litter at least

[@down2this754]

@@validark That is certainly a buyer problem. It's the same thing as people buying hideous poodle crosses. There are going to be suppliers that are unethical for pretty much anything anyone is willing to spend money on.

[@dr.catdoga384]

This should apply to cat breeds also. Ive seen some completely flat faced Persians that seem miserable.

[@jmclivaudais3291]

So true

[@CoquiDeBoriken]

We had a persian at the shelter once. It was my first time ever witnessing a cat snoring loudly in its sleep.

[@aphyngodiva2551]

Absolutely agree. I have a friend working as a vet tech who just recently had a Persian pass away from being anesthetized. It's disgusting that people create more of the animals.

[@clowntown3]

Persians also usually have very long fur that needs to be groomed often, they can't groom themselves because their muzzles are too short

[@glowindark64]

God this is so heinous. I hope this Is an issue of education but sometime I think people are just evil

[@zanniesmom]

I used to go to a vet that raised Frenchies and Persians. One of her dogs was at the vet for the day because she had done that nose/throat surgery to let him breathe better. She just scheduled C-sections for her dogs and cats because they couldn't deliver naturally. She had to wash her dogs and cats faces every night to prevent problems with the wrinkles in their face. It made me very uncomfortable to know she contributed to dogs' suffering.

[@Patricia-gy4wd]

The fact they were a vet and should be fully aware of how awful these issues are... that's a new kind of evil in my opinion

[@melanopygus]

That's disgusting. Sadly some vets are just in it for the money.

[@pennywisenibbles4949]

Making the dogs life easier isn’t the problem but she was breeding it with those a difficulties ?

[@down2this754]

@@pennywisenibbles4949 everyone who breeds those types of animals knows they have those difficulties. It's a hard pill to swallow.

[@the_newt_nest]

​@@Patricia-gy4wd Unfortunately, even when people gain experience in a field, their previous biases remain. See also nurses who are anti-vax.

[@LinRuiEn]

If people could feel the pain these breeds go through just trying to stay alive, they would (hopefully) want to ban these practices immediately. Shame on the people who keep breeding these dogs doomed to suffer.

[@Synthetic-Rabbit]

I dunno I had my Pug who I loved dearly and he died last year at 14. No breathing problems at all but his back legs and back end started to have nerve damage. He was muh best bud

[@natsukitatsumakiniji]

I agree and would compare it to Rollkur in horse dressage, but it's considered 'standard' when copious amounts of money exist, like high-level international competitions, like FEI (International Federation for Equestrian Sports).

[@pennywisenibbles4949]

They lack basic empathy

[@WonderfulAkari]

What is the ø sign people in the back have?

[@LLandS18]

​@@Synthetic-Rabbityeah, nobody on this comment section believes you you're pug didn't have breathing issues. Your pug on the planet who didn't have breathing issues then.

[@lanekobel6006]

I think the idea that the breed standards need to be changed and not that these breeds should disappear is a fair argument to be made.

[@109367]

THIS, we need to petition the kennel clubs and breed clubs for change, promote health above all else and encourage breeders to produce more structurally sound animals. The Retro Pug is a good looking dog imo and should definitely be promoted as much as possible.

[@lanekobel6006]

@@sarahwheeler52 I don't disagree that responsible breeders do everything they can the breed the healthiest dogs that meet the breed standard. You guys love dogs just as much if not more than most people. The problem is the breed standard itself is an inherited issue. BOAS is named after the shape of the skull that many dog breeds have been bred for. It is 10 times out of 10 a more restricted breathing status than a dolichocephalic dog or a dog with a typical face shape. Exercise intolerance and impaired thermal control are practically assured not including the list of BOAS signs and conditions that are more likely to occur just because of breeding for that face shape.

[@littleowl22778]

​@109367 same can be said about ridgebacks. That ridge is literally their spine being twisted, its not a fur pattern trait, its a purposely breed physical deformity.

[@Hippo-finds]

@@littleowl22778where did you get your information on the spine? I saw your comment and got curious and couldn’t find any information that the spine in these dogs are twisted. It simple states it’s a fur pattern that’s been bred into the breed? Just curious

[@kaylahbkitty9691]

​@@109367retro pugs were never a thing those were pug mutts in Europe 💀

[@GriffinWulf]

thank you, it sucks we have to resort to the legal system to stop this because the clubs just won't listen to veterinary recommendations!!

[@reganhulvey4213]

Also… just wanna say if we “bred” children to look like Voldemort… would people finally listen then? 😅😅😅😅

[@shirin8609]

A little off base... if only because now people are mutilating their children to "affirm their identities..." 😣

[@davidgray1515]

I thought we already did.

[@the_newt_nest]

Well, humans have to live almost two decades before they can be bred lol.

[@theopulentone1650]

@@the_newt_nest With Genetic engineering the possiblities will be near endless for human gene editing.

[@sabias3932]

Ma'am! 😂

[@reganhulvey4213]

I own a dog boarding facility & we just made the decision to STOP taking brachycephalic dogs. They scare the hell out of me from a health standpoint.

[@mmsanrio]

Shih Tzu’s too?

[@michelleturner6865]

These breeds have been around a long time. Funny how they manage to survive. Some for hundreds of years. Pugs maybe a thousand. Shih Tzu as well. No need to ban anything. Just promote healthier individuals.

[@LWren-nr6ud]

​@michelleturner6865 If you look at old photos and paintings of pugs they still had muzzles. They were short compared to a standard muzzle but not indented into the skull like some of the worst cases are today. There are breeders out there trying to bring back the old pug, which would not be banned under these laws.

[@ulalaFrugilega]

@@michelleturner6865the same with pugs, look into portrait paintings of past centuries, pugs are relatively often in their with their humans, and they are not easily recognised if you ate looking for what we are used to, now.

[@ModernVintage31]

@@michelleturner6865Like… through legislation? Because the current breeding industry created breed standards are a big part of the problem.

[@nezumired]

It's so frustrating to hear brachycephaly compared to things like hip dysplasia or cancer. No breed standard actively rewards breeding animals with shallow hip sockets the way they do deformed skulls. The brachycephalic breed standard creates an economic incentive to breed for a harmful trait such that selling outcrossed animals is less economically viable.

[@comfortme]

also hip dysplasia does not lead to other problems. nobody WANTS a dog that is suffering unless it looks cute while doing it. those shallow heads cause headaches, pressure, eyes to fall out, breathing, brain issues. it’s so much more than any other concern we have seen. the fact that i literally saw people saying “don’t clasp n squeeze your frenchie too hard! it’s eyes will pop out” is UTTERLY HORRIFIC like it’s just a casual fun fact that their eyes can just fall out like a doll. terrible. i hold my cats face some times to pet her or give her kisses, i cant imagine her eye just falling out because of such a gesture

[@a_lethe_ion]

German shepherd modern form is worse bc it has the hip slide down causing hip issues

[@helenaalexandra4197]

@@comfortme sorry, my GSD & GSD cross would like to disagree with you. While it may not directly cause other problems, like brachycephaly does, it does exacerbate issues that otherwise might be less traumatic. *Because* my GSD had hip dysplasia, what should have been a 85-90 lb dog, was maxed out at 75-80 to keep the weight off his hips; he was deliberately encouraged to be a low energy dog, and since he was recovering from an abusive situation, that was not a hard habit to form, and once established, not to hard to maintain. Lest you decry that I was starving him, he ate something like 5-6 Cups of grain free kibble a day; he was encouraged to play, when he would, with our other dog and with our cats , and we took him on walks and to the dog park when possible and of course into our yard multiple times a day. Helena's Prince Alexander of Rebel's Rest Farm was 12 when he died. *Because* my parents' SD cross had hip dysplsia, when his back legs started to give out due to his Degenerative myelopathy, he lost hip functionality far faster than was expected. There was no progression from "needs help on the stairs" to "needs a ramp , because he cannot use stairs anymore" to "must be carried over height changes". He just skipped the ramp stage altogether, because his hips could not hold him up correctly. Buddy Steel was 13 when we made the decision to send him across the Rainbow Bridge; his quality of life could not be maintained even with medication and all the care and affection and veterinary attention in the world; he could barely walk when assisted, he was losing his senses, and he was beginning to regress mentally.

[@friendformationbot]

Well, the breed standard for German Shepherds have absol;utely rewarded breeding for dysplasia. that breed standard should also be outlawed, it's cruel as well.

[@nezumired]

@friendformationbot Hip dysplasia isn't listed as a desirable trait in and of itself the way brachycephaly is. A German Shepard with healthy hip joints has excellent conformation. A pug with a longer muzzle would be disqualified. But, yes, the pure breed show community has not been willing to take the necessary steps to reduce the problems caused generations of inbreeding.

[@phyllisbennett5414]

I knew a French bulldog that did agility: it was so painful listening to its agonised breathing on the slightest effort. I was shocked that a Frenchie went through to the final line up at Crufts Best in Show last week. It had to breathe through its mouth just to do its circuit of the show ring Thank you for having the courage to speak up for these poor animals.

[@phyllisbennett5414]

@@sarahwheeler52 what about the one that won best of breed ar Crufts, but had to breathe through its mouth to get round the ring?

[@spindledreams]

@@phyllisbennett5414 um if you are talking this year that dog was checked by vets before it was allowed to compete and if I remember correctly it was already tested by Cambridge for BOAS and had a score of O meaning no signs of BOAS

[@phyllisbennett5414]

@spindledreams I watched an interview with the Crufts vet. Courage wasn't a word that springs to mind. She was more interested in bringing the breeders with her. I couldn't help thinking if the old expression about the tail wagging the dog. Crufts aee doing too little too late. It's a decade since the 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed ' programme and what has really changed?

[@tonitomei6323]

The AKC needs to change its standards

[@shannonbalthazor8712]

I have no idea why this came up in my facebook feed. But sitting here with a head cold, congested - not getting quality sleep and feeling tired and annoyed from mouth breathing..... yeah .... I can't imagine being a pug or frenchie having this permanently. Poor pups. They are so cute, but I have seen quite a few that snort when breathing. It can't be fun for them.

[@larastarmer4777]

I’ve been having sinus issues all my life and I mouth breathe almost all the time but when I get lucky and my sinuses are not so bad and my nasal sprays work, it’s a whole different life. So I very much understand what these dogs are going through and it makes me so sad. Also for the people saying that people would never get these dogs if they knew how they feel, unfortunately human stupidity and cruelty has no bottom. A while ago some idiot said that she wants to get a french bulldog because she can relate to him because she can’t breathe properly too and that they could bond over that. One day this breed will be banned but until then we should call these idiots out. Putting laws in place takes so much time but we can all shame them either aggressively or in a polite way and help in ending this sooner. Just don’t stay quiet.

[@pancake.squirrel]

I don’t even really find them cute-animals are the cutest when they’re the happiest and brachycephalic dogs are not the happiest.

[@FukaiKokoro]

But we can breed that out... Make the snouts longer and breed out the bad genetics. They are still cute and adorable with longer snouts. If anything cuter because they aren't suffering

[@pancake.squirrel]

@@FukaiKokoro the breed standard would have to change, because good breeders breed to the standard, fantastic breeders breed for quality of life. Idk that there are any fantastic brachycephalic breeders.

[@idrabohm3678]

​​@@FukaiKokoro Even if we do eventually breed these traits out, what about the generations of dogs who suffer to get to the point where previously brachycephalic dog breeds can live a happy, normal life? Why is their life-long suffering worth the preservation of this breed? Is this not also an incredible burden to place on these dogs? There are many, many healthy dog breeds that exist already. Why not choose a dog that is already capable of living a healthy life?

[@hollyingraham3980]

Persian cats didn't used to have bad brakes. I have a photo c.1929 of a champion with a very normal face. I love cats, which is why I view Munchkins with horror and pity

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

I have a purebred Munchkin cat. She didn't get the short legs, she is an LLV (long limbed variant). She has all of the other traits required for in the standard except for her legs. How about dog breeds with short legs? They should be looked at with horror and pity as well. At least Munchkins don't get the back problems the short legged dog breeds do because their skeletons are more flexible. (Jan Griffiths).

[@SoulDevoured]

​@@douglasgriffiths3534dude I think it's probably safe to say they probably also don't like short limbed dogs like dachshunds too. Which btw were originally bred that way for a working purpose and not for the cute factor. Though of course modern breeding has exasperated the issues into a less healthy animal in pursuit of the cute factor. And if your cat does not have the features of the breed that hinders their quality of life they were probably also not talking about your cat. You don't need to take criticism personally or defend people's bad breeding practices when that is obviously the thing being criticized. I'm glad you love your cat and presumably treat it well though.

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

Old style Persians are now called "heritage Persians" and are considered far less "desirable" to the breeding clubs.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@SoulDevoured The short legs of the Munchkin are the result of a mutation, which are also the reason for dog breeds with short legs. And yes, I do love my Babycat dearly. (Jan Griffiths).

[@mommalion7028]

@@douglasgriffiths3534 They are so cute 🥰 but I get all my cats from dumpsters or shelters. I’ve always wanted a Siamese myself but the first time I saw a munchkin cat in a video I squealed from how precious it looked. I just can’t justify buying a cat for more than $50 with my lifestyle 😂 you’re probably a bit posh compared to me. Give munchkin kiss for me!!!

[@kellydorazio]

I caught that "dogs and cats" in your opening statement, and I almost cried. Because you also said CATS. YES!!!! Yes, yes. These cats SUFFER and their owners are oblivious to what is happening. The cutest, poorly bred Himalayan I have seen most recently. Chronic Upper Respiratory, Malocclusion, 104, did not erupt but was sequestered at a 90-degree angle in the maxilla, Yesterday, this barely 2 year old cat presented with focal seizures rapidly progressing to generalized seizure activity. Now, a lifetime of medication...😢

[@durabelle]

Cats should definitely be talked about a lot more too, I agree. Many cat breeds are still pretty healthy when it comes to their appearance, but Persians have definitely crossed the line ages ago, some others like the Burmese are approaching full on smush face, and then there's the likes of Scottish Fold for example where the ear shape itself seems pretty harmless, but the gene behind those folded ears causes issues with cartilage all over the body, and basically every single individual suffers because of it.

[@maryeckel9682]

That's heartbreaking, poor kitty

[@SpottedLeafy]

It's sad cause it wasn't even that long ago that himalayans had normal faces, my mum had one as i was growing with a completely normal face and she was the sweetest thing ever. She even looked into maybe starting to breed Himalayans but decided against it when she saw the trend moving towards flat faces. I personally will never understand the flat face aesthetic, aside from the health issues i just don't like it...

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@SpottedLeafy Himalayans are considered Persians because they have to conform to the same breed standard. The only difference is color. CFA removed their separate breed classification in 1984, referring to them as Persian--Himalayan Division. (Jan Griffiths).

[@Pearl.Is.Autistic.SU.900]

Also brachycephalic pigeons

[@pawpkitty]

I have people in my life who want these breeds, and it sucks that I have to hold my tongue. There are so many healthy dogs to choose from and it blows my mind that people don't care.

[@FukaiKokoro]

Why hold your tongue? You can be polite and kind while also educating someone.

[@FukaiKokoro]

Before I got my dog I wanted a pug or something. Then I fell in love with cattle dogs. Glad I educated myself.

[@pawpkitty]

@@FukaiKokoro they are my in laws, so I have to tread carefully lol

[@AnnabethOwl]

Wouldn’t it be different if you get the breeds from a shelter? I’m curious.

[@pawpkitty]

@@AnnabethOwl Of course that is different, but a majority don't go through shelters to get them

[@Patricia-gy4wd]

Thank you for addressing that it's not a backyard breeder problem but a current breed standard problem in your testimony. It saddens me that people will defend and support the breeding of animals that struggle in basic bodily functions for survival just because they think it's cute and endearing. It's immoral.

[@Mupyeong]

I love the argument of backyard breeders because it shows how much these people deflect. Backyard dogs are ironically much more of a mixed bag between good and bad than the professional ones because they often just mix in random dogs. Breeders also ruin their own genepools. I knew a person who had a breed standard dog with SEVERAL awards. She was about to open her up for breeding as she was among the healthiest dogs available of her breed. Then the dog lost a tooth because of a car accident and this super healthy, perfectly fine dog was removed from the breed list for "not meeting the standard". :) The dog was healthy into old age and a great companion. Pisses me off to this day.

[@ayior]

​@@Mupyeong ...especially because losing a tooth doesn't even have an effect on its genetics, wtf

[@dmcdan1004]

Nothing will change until the breed standard changes. It is painfully obvious the AKC has no real interest in dog welfare by looking at these breeds and their suffering.

[@wendydonnelly4885]

The breed standards are written by a committee within the breed parent club. Then it’s voted on by the members of the parent breed club before sending it to AKC for approval and then it appears on the AKC breed website if no change is needed if changes are required it’s sent back to the breed parent club and corrections are made then re voted by club members and resubmitted to AKC. So both the breed parent club and the AKC work together in conjunction with creating or updating the breed standard.

[@dmcdan1004]

​@@wendydonnelly4885 Thanks so much for this information. So both the parent breed club and AKC are responsible for the breed standard. It would be of benefit for all breeds to have the standard reviewed by a designated group of completely independent veterinarians for their input and/or approval. Just a thought.

[@skyeiron5872]

The main problem is that show breeders collectively suffer from the purity mentality. To them, crossbreeding a dog is the worst thing they can do and they will forever carry a taint no matter how many back crossings are done, those dogs will never be 'pure' no matter how indistinguishable they are from any pedigree certified pure dog. Take the LUA Dalmatians for example. One pointer many generations ago to bring in the dominant normal Low Uric Acid gene to a gene pool completely lacking it and many Dalmatian breeders, judges, and KC's still refuse to accept them as Dalmatians, despite the fact that they are completely indistinguishable from other Dalmatians in any way and far better off for the lack of sometimes deadly bladder stones. As to the Pekingese, yes it is an old breed, however, for most of that time they looked much more like the Tibetan Spaniel than they did the current Pekingese. Now we have a new problem with the current Tibetan Spaniel being bred to look more and more like the current Pekingese. The Pekingese has many of the same problems as the Pug, Frenchie etc, it's just not as popular and not as well known.

[@lemonzester12]

What happened to the pekingese is similar to what happen the pomeranian (for many centuries they where similar in size to huskies)

[@skyeiron5872]

@@lemonzester12 You can actually still get throwback Poms which can be as large as 15kg. And to add to the sins of Pomeranian breeders, they are now prone to CM/SM as found by the study 'Phenotypic characterization of Pomeranians with or without Chiari-like malformation and syringomyelia' which is the only study done on CM/SM in Pomeranians to date.

[@laelienation]

I have a throwback Pomeranian he weighs 12 pounds, he is a runner. I also have a Pekingese that looks more like a Tibetan Spaniel, but she cant walk more than half a mile and she is done😮

[@Michelle-fh2dp]

I love short nosed dogs like Lhasa Apsos & Cavalier King Chas Spaniels, but even I am shocked by some dogs and cats that have practically concave faces! It is definitely cruelty! I'm with you that this along with achondroplasia and tail and ear docking should be ILLEGAL!

[@rawexplorer8373]

Cavaliers should not be flat faced. Its a stupid trend just like in rottweilers and St Bernards

[@huskygold5319]

​@@rawexplorer8373 agreed my aunt breeds them specifically to get rid of this trait. All of her dogs breath great and are very, very healthy.

[@Albinojackrussel]

Tail and ear docking can have a purpose (for working dogs it can be safer, and it can be a treatment for happy tail syndrome). But 100% docking shouldn't be done without a good reason, and it certainly should be a breed standard. "Short faces" brachycephaly, never serves a purpose beyond human aesthetics and should be banned. If we want short noses we can get stuffed toys. King Charles Spaniels are already illegal to breed in Norway because they have so.many health issues (not just due to brachycephaly admittedly) that it's considered animal cruelty to breed them.

[@Verenneito]

Cavalier King spaniels are extremely sick in other ways too, their skull is too small for their brain which often causes them extreme pain and seizures.

[@BadNessie]

Holy something, that argument of a breed being a thousand years old is breaking me. A thousand years of potential suffering, and we just keep going. I also don't understand how people can't bring together a feature being wanted in a breed and the fact that this type of feature comes with severe suffering in a large portion of the respective animals lead to the feature not being a good idea. People also confuse a person advocating for animal health by asking for reduction of these features with a person hating these dogs. It's kind of sad. Appreciate that you took this challenge.

[@IlloyedKater]

And if you look at old pictures of these dogs their noses are maybe shorter but not indented. And mind you the invention of pictures is not that long ago, so obviously they have NOT been like that for a 1000 years 🙄. So saying "ThEy HaVe aLwAyS been like this is." Is evidently not true...

[@skyeiron5872]

@@IlloyedKater Nothing has changed and ruined breeds more than breed standards and conformation shows yet they have the gall to claim that they are 'preservation' breeders and working to 'improve' their breed, and and by and large only end up leaving the breed worse off than what it was before. Even leaving out the extreme features some have been bred into, the high COI (Coefficient Of Inbreeding) found in most breeds is devastating to their immune systems and longevity. For reference the COI of a full sibling or parent/child mating is 25%. So many breeds have a COI well above that.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

Pugs didn't look the way they do now even as little as 60 years ago when my dad bred them. They had muzzles back then---short, yes, but not pushed in. And their eyes didn't bug out as much. They were cuter back then. (Jan Griffiths).

[@BadNessie]

@@douglasgriffiths3534 yes, that. And I know that some breeders are breeding Frenchies back into a... let's call it... healthy shape, with muzzles, tails, legs etc. The outer appearance has nothing to do with the personalities that people value so much in these kinds of breeds.

[@davidgray1515]

Advocating to end the breed instead of penalizing the breeders sure sounds like they hate the dogs themselves.

[@rawexplorer8373]

Also AKC should not support docking and cropping!!

[@DVMCellini]

absolutely

[@michelleturner6865]

That does not cause any health issues. It’s not cruel and is personal preference. Stop with this shit.

[@nobodyyouknow7226]

​@@DVMCellini For what reason exactly? Other than the fact that it might go against your personal aesthetics?

[@nobodyyouknow7226]

I'm sorry but yes they absolutely should. Working dogs, happy tail syndrome, medically necessary amputations and so on absolutely do benefit from talking and cropping practices.

[@rawexplorer8373]

@@nobodyyouknow7226 actually most ear injuries or ear infections occur in breeds that were never cropped, like cocker spaniels, poodles, labradors, weimaraners. With tails, the “happy tail syndrome” occurs in some dogs but not necessarily only in traditionally docked breeds. It is common in staffies, labradors, English pointers. I have even seen a German shepherd with this problem. Therefore I dont think its moral to cut off tails and ears at birth. This is mostly done due to tradition and aesthetic reasons but usually brings nothing but harm to the dog. Of course medical amputation is a different story and should not be banned. Aesthetic docking and cropping is banned in most EU countries and considered animal abuse through mutilation

[@jackaboyx3]

Honestly all your answers were very solid. We all wish we could go back and say something different but your testimony was very strong. Lets hope the bill passes 👍

[@c.a.fontaine1074]

I have severe allergies to the point that I had to go to the emergency room once because I could barely breathe. I still struggle to breathe alot, it makes it hard for me to eat, move around and sleep I will never support pouting a dog through the same suffering I go through.

[@thatonebab7351]

It isn't just dogs and cats with the issue of inborn, painful and stressful deformities that breeders desire, but horses, chickens, and snakes as well to my knowledge. Breeding only for aesthetics (or in the case of chickens, sheer productive capability) needs to stop. The animals don't need to suffer for human vanity and greed.

[@sleepyninjarin7971]

I unsubscribed from so many channels for supporting spider ball pythons (snake with slightly different pattern is worth the )clear neurological issues right??

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

Yeah I'm a horsey person and some of the breed registries particularly in the US have massive issues with breeding the functionality and longevity out of their horses in the pursuit of warped aesthetics. Like some halter bred Quarter horses would be unsound for even light riding due to being massively over muscled and post legged. It's insane.

[@DanTheVeterinarian]

Good for you doc! Way to be active.

[@DVMCellini]

Thanks doc

[@Jaylenem333]

Don’t beat yourself up too much Doc!! You did great and I’m glad you spoke up about this! 👏

[@eclecticallygen]

Screw him

[@imle9279]

There's a breeder of frernch bulldog in the Netherlands, who has been able to breed frenchies to be way more agile with little to no breathing issues. She got a litter now recently too, her dogs aren't registered tho, as they don't fit breed standard even tho they're all pure breds with proper health testing and screening. Her kennel is called Hawbucks btw, if you haven't heard from them you should really check them out and see what they do!

[@DVMCellini]

I have heard of them I touted their efforts on tiktok and got dozens and dozens of breeders saying they’re awful and I’m awful for promoting them. Yay.

[@imle9279]

@@DVMCellini Damn, people really hate on everything these days😭 even mad about happy healthy dogs that won’t end up as strays or at shelters. Btw I liked your testimony, yes it was a little bumpy road but you got to the point and got to the most important parts. So glad someone’s sticking up for these animals who seem to have no rights when it comes to living a healthy life

[@nadinabbott3991]

These breeds need to be outbred, period, towards more normal conformation. The early picture, had a muzzle.

[@imle9279]

@@nadinabbott3991 agreed. Too little genetic diversity to keep a healthy population, mix breeding healthy individuals is the only way to save these breeds

[@GilraenTook]

Oh! Is she still breeding? The last time I looked at her site, it seemed like the info on it was a bit older. Totally glad, and hope that more people end up going for her standards.

[@arvoleth8381]

"Why are breeders hesitant to consider brachycephalic animals as malformed?"- As sad as that may be but the most common reason is clearly money, these breeds are wildly popular on social media among uneducated people and they pay thousands of dollars for them. Then they notice how much of an financial risk these poor animals become and they end up flooding the shelters, where sadly they are often beeing put down because the resources to take care of their health issues are just not there. So not only are there a lot of these poor animals suffering from these malformations, it also starts to become a wider problem for our society in generel with shelters and rescues beeing flooded with these animals. The only humane and reasonable thing is to outlaw the breeding of these "torture-breeds" as animal rescuers refer to them in my language. Thank you for your commitment against these inhumane breeding practices!

[@sleepyninjarin7971]

Also a big thing is that the people who advocate for, buy and breed these dogs would have to come to terms with all the suffering they chose to cause if they admit the truth

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

Torture breeds is a perfect term for these poor animals.

[@GriffinWulf]

also in regards to the peke question, perhaps it would help to bring up that veterinary interventions like BOAS correction, reproductive assistance, and C-section were not around 1000 years ago, but now medical practice has advanced to the point where more extreme morphologies can now be selected for by breeders where even 100 ears ago such degrees of deformity were simply nonviable or at least much riskier. the kinds of medical interventions available now has opened up new frontiers in artificial selection and prolonging the lives of very health compromised dogs. i know its the opposite end of the body, but as a woman i think bringing up C section rates and birthing issues in bulldogs could be a powerful angle many may be receptive to?

[@meikahidenori]

Some breeders attempt to breed Poms and other small toy breeds like this too. Don't! Let them keep the larger snouts! The poms we have had that have lived the best lives were ones with decent snouts! Only one we had had one that was super tiny and she passed away on a hot day because she couldn't breathe or cool down. It's not just squished nosed dogs that get made to suffer.

[@semjay]

Every time one of the council members tried to say brachycephaly, I died a little inside. 😂

[@user-cs6pd4ot2e]

The breed clubs and kennel clubs need to put serious efforts into revising the standards for these breeds and it needs to include the outright banning and disqualification of these extreme dogs from participating in any events or registration processes. Unfortunately, even if these changes occur, there remains a public demand for these deformed dogs, which unethical breeders will readily exploit.

[@fbennett6656]

One way that this might be done is to remove their non profit status. If you're are going to continue to produce these genetics nightmares, the people don't have to support them in their abuse.

[@lisaforde1623]

Breed standards are really what end up harming so many breeds. They just end up with breeders breeding more and more extreme versions of the breed.

[@maryeckel9682]

It's ruining Arabian horses.

[@lisaforde1623]

@@maryeckel9682 I completely agree they look alien,

[@digits9010]

i dont think breed standard should take the blame for what people have done out of pure greed to certain dog breeds. for example, German shepherds have a breed standard that is evaluated through a unique three-point stack, however many breeders have bred for exaggerated features, regardless of faults, to pretend that their dogs are fit representations of the breed. this is not a fault of the standard, which discourages the reproduction of weak dogs. i cannot speak for brachy breeds bc i am not nearly as interested in non-herding/working breeds, but i think this distortion of standard exists for most or all dog breeds.

[@trilbynhiss]

I never understood why anyone would breed cats with flat faces. Aesthetically, it's not cute and you can see with a quick glance how difficult it is for them to breathe and how many eye problems they have. Breeding for dwarfism is weird to me too.

[@Finkeldinken]

Thank you so much for speaking out for the huge number of suffering companion animals out there. Legislation in that area must be quite a jungle, and I personally always think that it is a real flaw when this kind of legislation starts out very narrow and super specific, with no in-built wiggle room, so I would not be all in on that bill either. I am very much in on finding a way to educate the public about "cruelty in pet design" and for some kind of "whip" to the butts of the breed associations where they will need to disclose these issues clearly and with good sources, so prospective owners get the whole story, when they search. I also wish that national vet associations generally would be more up front about specifically harmful bred-for looks, as the research emerges. The world's breeders and breed associations have had DECADES to pull their heads out of... let's say "the sand"...and rectify these atrocities, so I do think it is only fair to the animals to start being way more strict. There has to be a good way to go about this - and for the life of me, I never could understand why the breeding associations and breeders haven't been doing targeted work with phd students at the very least, for all that time. And then again, as the caretaker of two rescue rabbits - one brachycephalic with the classic ear issues that often follow, but fortunately no eye and tooth problems - I am a little envious that dogs at least have a good body of research to go from! All the best, and while I do agree with your self criticisms here as you react, you still did a good thing trying to speak out on behalf of animals that you know suffer, and I think you did it well. I would have hoped that the people involved would have at least given you participants a little pamphlet on what to expect when testifying; I suspect that would have done a world of difference both for your wellbeing being in the red chair, and for maximizing the usefulness of your answers in regards to any legislation being worked on. Thank you again. That will always be praiseworthy imo! ❤

[@indesomniac]

I have a congenital disorder which impacts the way all of my soft tissue is produced -- I like to liken it to a Scottish Fold, whom I also believe to be unethically bred akin to dogs with severe brachycephaly. My condition makes it extremely hard for me to live a "full and normal life" and severely limits the things that I'm able to do and it's only supposed to get worse as I get older; the fact that some people will breeds animals with genetic defects like brachycephaly or osteochondrodysplasia just because "they look cute" is obscene. Anyone who argues that severe brachycephaly isn't a direct negative impact on that dogs life should go through a week or two with their nose pinched shut as even a small glimpse into what these animals go through on a daily basis.

[@kosaciecsyberyjski]

Do you have eds? Cause comparing Scottish folds to this is a very good way to show what issues these kitties have

[@Kat09tails]

You were really close to communicating things well: The AKC and UKC are closed studbooks. Meaning what's there is there, you can't borrow a less extreme gene from somewhere else like you can with some livestock studbooks and eventually get back to registered purebred. You can't breed a healthy hearted cavalier because there is literally no where to go to find the genes inside these breed clubs because they're that freaking inbred with no where to bring healthy genes in from. Breeders have incentives both financial and socially to stick their head in the sand and pretend a problem isn't really a problem. I used to raise papillons and saw first hand the kicking screaming and nonsense that came to acknowledging Neuroaxonal dystrophy as 1) existing and 2) being a possibility in their lines. We now have a marker but the process to getting breeders to acknowledge that they may produce critically ill puppies was so painful. There is also the fact that breeders pass on - on purpose what doesn't work out for show to the pet owning public and far too often wash their hands of any responsibility to what they produced. In AKC the standard has no points for health, health clearances, long life, or a normal ability to function in ambient temperatures. They will register anything, as long as it came from registered stock. So a blind, epileptic, dual merle gened dog with a COI north of 50% will gladly be registered without a second glance. The puppies of that dog can show and I can even point to a couple dogs who are double merle in shelties that are prominent sires because they will always produce merle puppies. It would also help you to speak to these reps in terms they can understand. They would understand that the dogs by design cannot breathe as well as a normal skulled dog. They would also understand that just because a product is old and traditional it can also be dysfunctional by design. This would probably go a lot further as a buyer protection law than the grey space of ethics.

[@aphyngodiva2551]

As someone who has owned brachycephalic mixed breeds who even while not having a severe degree of brachycephaly still exhibited brachycephalic problems, THANK YOU for also addressing that it literally has nothing to do with being "well bred" or not, it is literally the conformation is not healthy, natural, or meant to exist on a dog period. One of my dogs had esophagitis and would vomit from drinking too much water too fast, she would also get very hot and pant very heavily compared to my other pup who while being brachycephalic she had a longer muzzle and did not struggle as intensely. They also both had epiphora likely from blocked lacrimal ducts, and the one with the shorter muzzle had more severe of a problem with this and would get dermatitis and infections in her facial skin folds that were unable to get air and dry out, I combatted this by trimming the fur as short as possible so the moisture did not take as long to evaporate and they stayed dry. I also forgot the word for it, but there is also a disorder where the fur on the muzzle/facial folds (not the eyelids, I know that is ectropion) grows curved and into the eyeball, she also had that. The thing is breeders of brachycephalic animals don't see a non-life threatening problem as being an issue at all, when it is still very much an issue and affects the health and comfort of the animal. If they just took a moment to examine their animals more closely and care about their well being and comfort, they would see the problems. Instead they chock it up to being a "breed trait" and "if your animal is struggling with it it simply means you're not caring for it well enough". Or you're not breeding them well enough to care about them being born without menial issues? I've especially seen this from the American Cocker Spaniel breed where cherry eyes are prominent. Many breeders still breed affected dogs because they don't see it as being a huge deal, it's "just a breed thing", or they're aware of it also being a conformation issue that if they bred it out their dogs would look different (large circular eyes and a pronounced stop which causes shallow-er eye sockets that the tear gland struggles to fit in).

[@RDeFinis]

I have a 2 year old AKC Boston Terrier. I absolutely love the breed and would agree that the standard should change to support the best health and welfare for the breed. I appreciate the time and effort you put in to raise awareness and fight for change

[@RDeFinis]

I’m very interested in seeing what the AKC has to say on this matter

[@DVMCellini]

My next video is me reacting to the AKC rep’s testimony. Hopefully that clears up some things.

[@chesneymigl4538]

I would love to see many breed standards updated for modern standards of health and welfare. I've also seen so many dachshunds with back issues (and now munchkin cats too). You can have a weenie without the extreme length. But that's just my take.

[@nonononono8194]

Bosties have the best personalities. 😻😻😻

[@Sarena05]

The breeding of brachycephalic dogs is banned in the Netherlands. The question about enforcement of the bill is a valid one, that’s what the Netherlands is currently dealing with. Too many dogs are still being bred illegally or being imported from neighbouring countries where’s it’s legal to breed them. I agree with this ban, but it’s not easy banning the most popular dog breeds in the world. One country (or state) has to take the first step but it won’t be enough if others don’t follow. We can only help brachycephalic dogs if everyone bans them.

[@LizbetPCB]

It would have been pretty strange if you weren’t nervous. When I have to speak publicly, even in front of a small group of people I’m acquainted with, I get the ‘voice wobbles’. it doesn’t matter how much I prep, or how confident I am, and what I’m saying, it’s just the way it works out. You did just fine and the fact that you did it is enough to shore up your confidence. I know you’ll keep speaking up for the ones who can’t. Thank you, Doc! Edited to add, I appreciate you mentioning cats, too!

[@incineroar9933]

Awww, I like Bulldogs when they have their nose sticking out. I think it looks much better than the squished in look. Why would any dog with a nose like that be disqualified by the breed standard?

[@thedot66]

WE DONT NEED BREEDERS. Unless the goal is a very healthy, good tempered intelligent working dog like for police work. Otherwise there is a dog for anyone elses needs in a shelter somewhere

[@paintbrush3554]

Not necessarily true. Breeders are needed to some extent because people with different lifestyles mesh well with certain breeds. Thats where MOST breeds originated from. Not aesthetic but function. For example sporting dogs and fantastic for extremely active people who do alot of outdoor activities, working and shepard dogs are highly intelligent and aid well in certain task, some people prefer dogs who are loyal to just their families and not with outsiders, some want breeds with minimal needs, depending on your living situation or certain allergies etc etc. There are good reasons for different breeds to exist as pets as long as those breeds are healthy and allowed for some crossbreeding for genetic diversity. Not every person and every family can have just any breed with a Russian roulette of unpredictable traits. This is why some of us prefer a specific breed (even though I do agree more people should also adopt) but breeders and breeds are still important. Anyone whose studied different dog breeds and their origins know that not all if even most breeds are unhealthy like the few that have been bread simply for appearance. Most dog breeds where bred with physical and mental abilities as a focus and are healthier.

[@FukaiKokoro]

Shelter dogs arent for everyone. I have a hot take; the adopt don't shop movement has become a animal hoarding cult. It's literally easier to adopt a human child than some shelters and places

[@csp.9203]

​@@paintbrush3554I've said many times before, on the continuum of dead, suffering animals and people getting what they want, there is only one moral side and it isn't the latter

[@Shadowfate93]

Shelters full of pitbulls. No thank you

[@gypsylee333]

Liesssss it's always filled with nothing but demon shitbulls at the shelters.

[@solstice3190]

Dog groomer here! I love that us here in this small community are fighting on this topic and that a lot of us who work with dogs realize that there IS an issue. Grooming brachycephalic dogs is also an experience and trying to wash their faces basically feels like we’re waterboarding them because they can barely breathe as it is so then they start freaking out and flailing around. I’ve worked at a couple of daycares as well and most of them require brachy breeds to be put up during summer because I live in a beach town and the weather is definitely very warm. Never this issue with other dogs! Good video!

[@shadowjewel]

I think the biggest hurdle for many people on this topic is emotional; they don't want this to be as bad as it is because then that means that this thing they've enjoyed, found cute, loved, or made money from is a source of suffering for innocent lives that many of these people have loved. Peer pressure I think is also a problem as these breeders and lovers of these breeds are also going to be associating with other people who are fans of them. The breed standards issue is the official stamp on that peer pressure factor, making it even worse.

[@dorothybutterfield8428]

About time I have thought this for years people are selfish its all about what they want never mind the suffering of the dog it needs changing plus the indiscriminate breeding of dogs with genetic defects there by perpetuating the suffering for future generations .

[@ShibaInuGoddess]

As a future Vet Tech I love the idea of going into more detail about the diseases they can suffer from.

[@IcefisherTenacity]

17:00 “you don’t see it in nature because THEY’D BE DEAD.”

[@mmsanrio]

We are our own worst critics! You didn’t seem nervous at all!!! 😂😅 Seriously!

[@monserrath270]

I absolutely hate “designer breeders”. Chihuahuas are my favorite dog and I hate how many breeders are deforming them and purposefully giving them a worse quality of life. Take the merle gene, that is not a naturally occurring gene in chihuahua DNA. They need to be cross bred with other dogs to introduce that gene (which is incompatible with them) and inbreed them to bring out merle coloring. The problem with that is they can be born blind and deaf and if not born that way they will develop those and other problems before they become elderly. And so many are being bred to have giant foreheads, bulging eyeballs and flat muzzles. Those are not chihuahuas, not the way they are supposed to look like and forces them to have more health problems. These designer breeders should be banned.

[@midnighthope6029]

the people arguing that these dogs are healthy are the people selling these dogs. veterinarians- who are actually qualified animal doctors, unlike breeders- have nothing to gain or lose from making people aware of their health issues.

[@Smithpolly]

Not necessarily. I mean, presumably, there are unscrupulous vets and an unhealthy dog has a lot more money making potential than a healthy one.

[@vanessasonica]

The breed standards & many breeders very often favor these anomalies for the aesthetics of it over functionality. It’s sickening, the breed standards should be about the health of the animal. I don’t want certain breeds to disappear, I want theses breeds to be breed responsibly with health in mind. I want a pug that is proportionate in their features & can live a healthy & active life, that don’t hinder their health in any way. I don’t want a pug that is struggling with every single breath since the moment they’re born. Imagine you purposefully breeding a child that’s heavily mutated because “it’s considered cute or is the standard”. Unthinkable right?, why do that to animals?

[@amusedBYfools]

AWARENESS. I wasnt even aware of this problem. I just thought they were ugly.

[@microgardenmom]

I have always wondered why the AKC doesn't just change the breed standard to require slightly longer muzzles in order to get closer to what the breeds originally looked like. It would be more humane and we wouldn't have to be talking about banning breeds. You would think that a large group of dog lovers such as the AKC would be at the head of such a push to help dogs. Kind of sad that it might take legislation to get people to think about the health and well-being of their dogs. While it may require an infusion of other breeds at this point, I think it's worth trying to just breed the pure-bred dogs with the longest muzzles. This would likely increase the average muzzle length after a few generations.

[@tonyclark5151]

Dog breeders could just outcross to a dog breed that may have a similar body type, but without having brachial disease or malformation. It would take at least 5 to 6 generations to attempt to rid the breed of it and then another 5 or 6 generations to strengthen the newer formed breed. Do you think that this would help?

[@someonerandome2000]

Unfortunately while it would likely help the health of the dogs, convincing AKC breeders of that would be a whole other saga. Just look at the LUA vs HUA Dalmatians and the tantrum that breeders threw when the “back cross” was introduced to try and get these dogs functioning kidneys 🤦‍♀️

[@FreesTylerFurYa]

The Norwegian Kennel Club together with the breed clubs are actually working on an ourcross project on the Norwegian Lundehund because they were so inbred with specific health problems, and no genetic diversity. The project is proving successful, so that should prove that outcrossing certainly works if done properly.

[@maryeckel9682]

Most breeds were developed that way to begin with, but these organizations are dead set against back crossing.

[@annaheyward4874]

Thanks for posting this. I can only imagine what you cop from unhinged breeders.

[@Thumbelina95]

Have these people spent 5 minutes with a Frenchie?? You can hear them struggling to breathe. They are born with COPD. It is not comparable to hip dysplasia or joint problems with larger breeds that develop later in life.

[@diejaykaynz3r078]

unbelievable how people prioritize (imo not pretty) aesthetics over the health of their "beloved" pets. makes it somewhat easy to identify those who see them as statussymbols 😕 its so sad

[@catherinelw9365]

In reality they are animal abuse enablers.

[@Pausha]

I'm so glad that more vetenary professionals are speaking out about this issue. Strugling to breathe or walk IS NOT CUTE OR BEAUTIFUL. Intentionally breeding extreme features is just as bad as cropping, docking, declawing etc. We need to stop all these practices and let our companion animals just be normal and healthy. Just my opinion.

[@Spiid1000]

You kind of convinced me not to get a Frenchie. I always wanted one but had no idea the nose was actually a real problem.

[@crypto_radio9653]

This is awesome Dr. Cellini! Good for you for taking a stand, speaking about these issues, and opening yourself up to criticism. I think you did a good job. There’s always room for improvement and I love that you are reflecting back on how you did!

[@CoperliteConsumer]

Pug breeders are basically the Qu from "all tomorrows". 💀

[@Alice-xy3fi]

Haleluhiah! I really was beginning to think I was the only one who saw things this way, after seeing so many youtube vids of pet owners talking about how much they love their pugs, how adorable they are, etc., as they're taking the to the vet for various ailments directly related to this breeding. One such dog can't breathe, another needs repeated caesarean births due to (I may be mistaken about this part) breeding that favors the typical extremely triangular, narrow-hopped body... I don't believe I've ever succumbed to the impulse, but each time I see one of these (usually with the vet lauding the pet owners for how much they love their dog), "How can you say you love these dogs while you're supporting their being bred in such a way as to invite ill health, pain, discomfort, repeated painful problems and painful medication, shortened life in at least some cases...all so you can have a dog you consider "cute?" It makes no more sense to me than the men who insisted on being married only to women crippled by the custom of foot-binding. That too was based on aesthetic preference. So yes, by all means, let us continue to deform living beings, and make their lives painful, because we like the way these deformatons look...and while we're doing that, let's be sure to go on and on about how we love and adore these creatures we are deforming so as to meke their appearance more pleasing to us (because we love them so much they are not good enough as they are...as, some would say, God made them).

[@Iflie]

I'm dutch and they just banned the breeding of the short snouts in cats and dogs and ears that also lead to bone issues. You can have a great dog, same personality just with a longer nose like they had in the past.

[@js66613]

That last one is not only guilty of whataboutism when she tries to dig at the other causes of diseases to somehow distract from the issues of brachycephalic breeds, but her comment on the Pekingese was ignorant, because that breed also suffers from the issues other brachycephalic breeds suffer from. A quick google search could tell you as much... and, as you said, just because it's an ancient breed doesn't necessarily make it better. Just means the breed as a whole survived that long. It doesn't account for the changes to breeding standards for the breed over that period of time, nor does it give you an idea of the quality of life for any such dog back then, let alone now.