EBike PAS in VESC - Basic Setup. WHAT is GOING ON?! (It Needs Work)

buymeacoffee.c... Testing PAS in VESC to see if it works good. FLIPSKY 75100 PRO V2 controller. Get 10$ off with code EBB - flipsky.net/pr...
VESC is an open source electronic speed controller (motor controller) that can be used with EBIKES. The PAS feature was added somewhat recently, so its kind of new in VESC: github.com/ved...
4 Wire 12 Magnet Quadrature PAS sensor from Grin Tech - ebikes.ca/shop...

[@Bengy22]

I'm glad you are shining a light on VESC pedal assist, I have the same thoughts you do. Hopefully you gain more attention on it. And I hope you have seen my message on changing the control type and rpm settings, more testing is needed! I need to catch up on a few videos of yours, been busy so hopefully I didn't miss anything important!

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I couldn't get PAS to work at all when i changed the CONTROL TYPE from Cadence to Constant Torque, i think that is for a torque sensor? I think right now, the cadence PAS behavior in vesc is kinda hard coded and basic. The best way to set it up might be changing the RPMs to a low value that is the same ... so its not doing this RPM funny business based on how fast your cranks are spinning. I don't know how much i want to fuss around with this PAS trying to make it work, Lol I am ready to start coding something. Thanks for that reply to my email I read it at like 4am I have to read it again Lols. You havent missed anything important I just got the regen working with my g62. ANd the Talaria Stuntman did a wheelie straight into a gate, that was funny.

[@Bengy22]

@EBikeBuilder_ Yeah not sure why it doesn't work, I've read about it it's supposed to even with cadence sensors. Just gives the set power at all times of any rotation. Problem with setting stop rpm low as well is going above it cuts pas power. But I get what you mean. Maybe you can test out a fancy torque sensor on the bike, I know vesc can support it because cyc uses vesc for their controllers now. Good luck on the coding adventure, maybe you can make sense of the Luna code to implement it into yours for a display and pas modes. Oh yeah I watched a bit of those videos but they are very low haha, didn't get time to finish them. I think you should get a second vesc for the front hub to go awd. The vesc's can connect together and work together

[@EBikeBuilder_]

@@Bengy22i would hook another flipsky to the front motor But that thing is so loud its not great for videos, when i had both motors on 1 throttle and the front one was always going the motor noise was unbearable Lol😂 i want to get another flipsky But i need one for my BBSHD mountain bike first…. I want to get back to that also. My front hub i only use some times so its not a super high priority… but if flipsky sent me a couple controllers or something i would make some dual ESC content. Otherwise i gotta buy a bunch of flipskys and I’m OCD about buying things i don’t absolutely need 😅

[@EBikeBuilder_]

just to be clear guys - I'm not a fan of SONIC THE HEDGEHOG pedal assist, I don't like how how PAS starts based on a crank RPM, then the power output of PAS is based on HOW FAST YOU SPIN THE CRANKS!! LOL! But the good news is, VESC is open source, and it is possible to change the behavior of PAS 😎

[@rdd3adeye]

Im not a fan of those type of PAS either, that’s why i opted for a torque and cadence sensor. The torque sensor allows for easy startup, then the cadence sensor with kick in when you pedal fast enough. i just have to find out how to configure it on the vesc.

[@nicod974]

​@@rdd3adeyegood Luck

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I think one possibility guys to have it behave more like a normal cadence sensor, is set both PEDAL START RPM and PEDAL END RPM to a low value that's the same?? I havent' tried that yet. But maybe if you set them both to 2, it just gives you full power right when you start pedaling

[@nicod974]

You have a good point there. Try it

[@EBIKESBR]

I managed to use a 3-wire sensor, using the ppm input and lisp programming, it works perfect!

[@EBikeBuilder_]

i saw some one mention that on a forum some where, it looks like that may be the way to go, I see the LISP scripts are sand boxed and shouldnt cause any bricking problems

[@paulpostel9721]

What forum are you using EB?

[@EBikeBuilder_]

@@paulpostel9721 this is the thread that I have found on the VESC forums that has a sample LISP - VESC script of how to read a PPM 3 wire cadence PAS sensor... vesc-project.com/node/3689 I am taking this script and using it to learn LISP VESC scripting , this script is very basic hard-coded and not very complete , I have changed the script a bit to read the PAS signal from the RX pin instead of the PPM or whatever it was doing. And i think I have a handle on the scripting. But that script wont work for my PAS sensor it seems, I need to do some scripting I am working on it right now

[@paulpostel9721]

@@EBikeBuilder_ thanks man. I truly like your videos with the flipsky in combo with the G062 motor. I use that motor and now own the flipsky, actually I'm wiring up the flip tomorrow. I'm going to use the crew dart platform with a inverted fork and 60v HD battery.

[@toffifee416]

Hi, I might try changing the positive and negative ramp time. Like he does with the acceleration lever, for example, where the time basically determines the output delay. I would try lowering the values to make the PAS more agile and react faster to changes. Otherwise, I'm glad the developers implemented this option and I'd like to try it myself on my e-bike, because when I want to do a bit of sport, but want to have some of that electric power available, it's annoying to fiddle with the lever :D. What firmware version are you running on your VESC? Greetings from the Czech Republic.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I think the Flipsky has firmware 6 , i think you are right about lowering the PAS start RPM to a low value like 2. Then set the PAS end rpm to something low also that is a comfortable cadence and power output. I don’t like how the PAS power output is based on the pedal RPM , i might try to change the code and add a different option. To make it behave more like a normal cadence sensor. I agree its nice some form of PAS had been implemented in Vesc as its a good starting point for further improvements. 🎉

[@stevecumming6427]

Cool as Ima bout to connect the Flipsky with the key switch & volt meter on a Pro V2. I was experimenting on a Mars 2.0 after removing the chain ring & chain, on getting the PAS to work by using only 1 magnet. By wiggling the crank arm over 1 magnet pick up, it was possible to keep the motor being powered. So try less magnets is what I think I did before the factory contoler bricked for some reason. Maybe the controller didn't like the 63kph being run with free wheeling in the shop.

[@giftl1fe]

The best PAS is throttle control, throttle trail braking action on the twist or thumb throttle is all i ever used....😮

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Yeah don’t really use PAS myself. I got tired of ghost pedaling years ago, it leads to repetitive stress injuries. I would rather use the throttle. And if i want to pedal i use the throttle when i need some motor power. However People have been asking me about PAS in VESC so i wanted to try it and see what is available

[@davidhazel36]

I have a 2000w dual motor smlro xdc600 ive made many changes / mods too. The pas system it uses is the best I've ever used and it's customizable. Right now i have it set to engage with 3 crank rotations and have setup 5 levels of speed. 1 is set to 10 mph, 2 at 15, 3 at 20, 4 at 30 and 5 at 40. I have a 60t chain ring on it and 7 spd cassette 11 - 34 and i can pedal up too 40. Since i shunt modded both controllers and added two 52v 30ah batteries this thing screams and the tires are getting so worn out they are showing threads from all the peeling out i do. Looks like I'll only be getting about 200 miles from a new set of chao yangs 😂. After 40 i will ghost pedal to look more like a cyclist if im in town. Unfortunately i cant get it to go any faster than 43mph at the moment. My goal with this bike is to be able to cruise at 45. I dig your content and have learned a few things. Keep up the great work 👍 👏 💪

[@EBikeBuilder_]

ty for the kind words mate I appreciate that, Your bike sounds fun, I like how that PAS on your bike is set up, working based on crank rotations and different levels of speed. That is more what i would expect from a cadence PAS system!!

[@Johnny_Guitar]

TX = Transmitter RX = Receiver

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Yeah i am not sure why those are the default pins for pas, i thought those were for a display

[@NoInfoFound]

Thanks for trying to sort out the pedal assist. Do you have the brake motor cut off enabled and will it stop it when it starts rolling on its own?

[@EBikeBuilder_]

for this video i turned the regen with ADC Brake Center off / i have the regen disabled in this video. When the brake is ON, the PAS is OFF- that was REALLY throwing me off. Since I had the brake set up to center, with throttle min mapped to center, it was engaging the brake when i was off the throttle, and I could only get PAS to start when i would engage the throttle enough to release the brake. So for this video I just disabled regen. There's a few ways you can hook up the regen brake. I liked it on the throttle but it's at odds with PAS. I think if you want PAS with the regen you need some way to control the regen, or disable regen, its kind of annoying to have to hold the throttle beyond a certain point to get PAS to engage

[@EBikeBuilder_]

i think another option might be to use the profiles feature. and set up one profile for PAS and ADC. and then set up another profile for the ADC Brake Center with regen. if you are on the streeet and want regen. Im still trying to think through all of this and how to make it work best

[@NoInfoFound]

@@EBikeBuilder_ PAS + Regen Brake would be interesting, but I was thinking more basic: PAS + just motor cutoff on brake. The idea is that if the motor gets frisky for some reason, the grabbing the brake will at least start friction brake and also signal motor cut off to the controller.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

@@NoInfoFound Its possible to set the brake up as more of a button yeah. You would connect a brake lever with the 3 wires to GND and 3.3V (in parallel with the throttle) and then the brake signal goes to ADC2, is how the Flipsky wiring diagram has it shown to connect the brake lever. And probably have to map the maximum. and minimum voltages of the brake similar to how you map the adc throttle voltages. Then hitting the brake lever should be like an on/off toggle on ADC2. And in the ADC control mode you would use Current No Reverse Brake ADC2 I think, or Current No Reverse Brake Button , Im not sure which control mode it would be to hook up to that brake signal on ADC2, probably something like that. I was thinking about mapping my regen to the ADC2 brake as well. But I only have those mechanical / cable pull brake levers with the electronic shut offs, I dont have any of those ones where you glue the magnet on with the sensor for hydraulics, and Im not about to take my hydraulic levers off my bike. So i dont think i am going to put regen on the brake lever. There's no way to modulate the power of the regen when its on a brake lever like that, unless you have some kind of a special brake lever that acts more like a throttle with a range of voltage, as opposed to the brake cut off which is more of an on / off thing. So I think for regen. I will probably try to make something similar to Grin Tech where its like back pedal regen Or something like that maybe, IDK, I still dont know what to do about regen. But Its important to be able to control the power of it. And I dont want a whole separate throttle just for regen. So its alot of like trying to figure out how to make it all work togethjer in a way that is user friendly and not annoyhing while riding. I never set up my regen with the grin tech stuff I will have to look into how they do regen. I remember in that grin tech talk about regen , justin talked like half an hour just about this challenge and how to engage regen

[@nicod974]

Only one explanation, the code for PAS could be wrong. Or the wiring of the sensor... That' what that pulse effect tells me

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I think the pulsing was because I was going above, and below, that minimum 6 pedal RPM, and it was the Upramping and Downramping. that was kind of pulsing, I think if there was no ramping it would have been jerking on and off abruptly

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I think the code for PAS is just weird unusual logic yes, the behavior is not typical, I will find some way to improve it

[@captainchedo3592]

I've been thinking of a controller I can get that will get me a bit more speed around 40mph I'm wondering if my 750 hub motor possible 🚲💨

[@EBIKESBR]

If you want the lisp code I will send it to you by email

[@EBikeBuilder_]

sure that would be super helpful Mate! I am messing around with the LISP VESC scripting right now. i'm ebikebuilder at protonmail dot com