How Does Your Commander Deck Actually Win?

[@JEL625]

I think when people ask "what is your win con" what they really mean is how to do intend to gain the upper hand to take the game. UrDragon is going to make massive evassive dragons to control the board and eat players. Kranko is going to go wide and overwhelm you with the sheer volume of attackers. Edgar markov is going to go wide with vampires. Slivers will go wide, tall, and evasive at the same time. Others will win with infect and proliferate. Many combo decks, especially in mono blue, have an instant "win the game" effect based on card draw like jace or thassa'a. Despite what her ability does Tergred's win con is to win via combat damage most times. But what people actually mean is that Tergred will steal their opponents resources to the point they cant contest the board state anymore then slowly beat them death. To summerize i think what people mean is "please let me know what is most threating to me in your deck so I can respond accordingly and not be blindsided."

[@jcstaff1007]

Exactly this. This is what people mean. What’s the difference in all these decks? It’s not that they don’t/aren’t going to do dmg or another method of winning. It’s that they’ll amass a ton of value in a relatively specific way and close out the game with that advantage. Not “they’re going to combat”. No duh they are. This video was at least decent white noise while at work.

[@Dioliolio]

Am I supposed to lay out my entire gameplan of my deck before every game? lol.

[@jcstaff1007]

@@Dioliolio right? Like who does this? It’s like if superman himself was like “hey guys i have a super bad weakness to kyptonite” every time he walked into a room.

[@vincent-antoinesoucy1872]

@@Dioliolio Entire no, but when you play with stranger, it lead to better game to say '' I play control with reanimator subtype'' or '' I create random token that i turn into dogs and cats''. Anything that pretty much cover what the opponent would know if they played you once before.

[@zion2199]

Spot on. I feel like the streamer is being really obtuse about this. Yeah, most decks are gonna win with combat damage, but if all I play is 3/3 creatures with no abilities or interesting interaction I’m not gonna win.

[@XerexB]

I cant remember a time i saw a krenko deck winning with combat damage actually. They normally dont want their goblins to die to deal some combat damage when they could make more with krenko and get more impact tremors/purphorous triggers or other means of dealing damage based on number of creatures

[@Akario3]

Yup. If goblins get to attack, we say "thank you for being open and not wiping me, now take 136 to the face on turn 5".

[@Davulzz]

I think wincon and gameplan get a bit intermingled her. Let's take ur-dragon for example. You win by reducing the enemies lifetotal to 0. But how do do you plan to do that better than your opponents? "I plan to win with combat damage by having big flying creatures that are hard to block and slowing my opponents with strong ETB burn-effects. Krenko? "I win if I manage to go wide with tokens and attacking opponents weakened by 'impact tremors'-like effects". Gishath? "I win by leveraging it's ability to cheat big creatures into play, outvaluing my opponents" What people think of as the win condition isn't usually "my opponents life got to 0" but the conditions that needs to be met for you to be the one getting there. Token decks win by going wider than their opponents, gaining value from multiple creatures entering/leaving the battlefield, or playing Hoof on a semi wide board. THAT is their winconditions. Opponents at 0 life is the result not the condition.

[@Davulzz]

Combat damage is to generic. Getting through with unblockable small creatures? Having bigger creatures than your opponents? Making opponents attack each other over you (goad, ghostly prison, carrots like them drawing for attacking other players etc.) and by extent outlasting them as a result?

[@darthwyrmius]

Wait, you mean I'm supposed to play to win. I've been doing it all wrong.

[@Geneo1700]

let me guess, group hug?

[@darthwyrmius]

@@Geneo1700 improper building style. I don't use computers to gauge mana curve. I play to have fun and interact with the board.

[@Geneo1700]

@@darthwyrmius based

[@lexmtaylor]

Why would I want to win? Then the game would be over.

[@Geneo1700]

@@lexmtaylor people have jobs and lives my friend

[@FiveStringC]

Yuriko is definitely cedh but people do actually use other ninjas with her. Its good to be able to proc her ability multiple times in a turn(likely the one you try to win on). Its not all ninjas obviously but she makes the good ones cedh playable.

[@Magnafiend]

I really think you might have oversimplified the question of "What's your win con". Most times when I'm helping a friend build a deck and ask the question of what's your win con, I'm usually looking for more specifics than just "bring them to 0 with combat damage). I more look for what lines are you shooting for to close out a game or push your deck past what everyone else is doing. For example as someone who has a jodah deck, it's built low curve capping at 4 or 5 tops with the exception of a few outliers, and my main "win cons" are Rakdos Joins Up for direct burn and punishing removal so that my opponents die if they don't handle the enchantment, a handful of trample enablers to push through turtle combo decks, or Jarad Golgari Lich Lord to get around board states that make attacking completely impossible. Yea, sure, main goal is win through combat damage, that's kind of a no brainer, but what specifically is going to get me there? What is going to push the synergies of the deck past what my opponents are going to have? Is it even a specific card or more how the deck is constructed (again mine is low curve focusing on outpacing the table rather than big splashy legends). For the Yuriko example, your wincon might be black tutors that let you rig topdeck plus brainstorm. Tutor up draco with something like a Grim tutor or lilliana's downtick, swing with Yuriko, then next turn brainstorm and put it back on top, swing again. It's more the nuance of how it wins, and I also find it ends up being more of a question asked during the deck building/tweaking phase rather than before a game in a rule 0 conversation. That tends to be more of a what's the general theme of what your deck does. What does it look like when it does the thing?

[@edwardcowart5990]

To anyone struggling with games feeling stale/repetitive or having trouble matching the power level of casual players, take out those win cons. The deck becomes much more of a puzzle because you aren't digging for the win, you're ASSEMBLING the win. If your playgroup is salty this is also a big help. A lot of the salt in the format comes from people having their expectations defied. For example, "I expected to untap, but you played craterhoof" or "I expected to curve out, but you played thalia"

[@narkfly]

I think Demo's reaction to toolbox or open-ended commanders speaks to a difference of interpreting the question itself. At least part of what I mean when I ask for a deck's or a commander's game plan / win conditions is: "outside of and beyond the very fundamental plan of turning your creatures sideways to reduce my life total to zero, how does your deck beat me with combat damage before my deck beats you with combat damage?" For example, how does the deck propose to create a board state in which attacking remains profitable beyond the fear of a crack back? How does the deck plan to account for the opponents' creatures also being on the board when it swings out? How does the deck tip the scales in its own favor? I think win conditions specifically refer to the key pieces the deck wants in place or on hand to offset the balance for its own game plan. Just about every deck, given enough turns without interaction from opponents, can win with combat damage. I don't feel like saying "combat damage" without any further detail really answers what people mean when they ask the question.

[@jagteq]

I think what people mean is not so much that they’re baffled by trying to win by attacking but more that attacking is so common as a win condition that everyone will try to stop you from doing that, so how do you win through resistance? Obviously if your opponent isn’t going to interact or block then yeah, any creatures will get there eventually, but what’s your plan to win through a mass of Plant tokens, or a couple board wipes, or a Propaganda and some timely removal spells? Doesn’t necessarily mean you need a Craterhoof, but I think that’s the kind of thing people are asking about when they pose this question.

[@al8188]

4:25 Yuriko's wincon is someone on the design team getting a head injury on the way to playtesting it. Shorikai is interesting, because if you peruse the actual results on its EDHrec page you've got big vehicles representing a large slice, but then you've got Hullbreaker Horror in 16% of deck. Most of the builds are just "vehicle beatdown," but Shorikai has also been a cEDH commander that plays stax pieces and Metamorphosis-Hullbreaker lines to make infinite mana. Very funny when you see a vehicles Shorikai in the wild with a random Hullbreaker in it and you're able to immediately assess how they ended up in that position. Just clicking "add to cart" on the first page of its entry.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I feel like you might have a slightly different definition of wincon than most people because when I hear wincon I think of individual cards like craterhoof or some specific combo not oh my deck wins through combat

[@Belena711]

Yep. Agreed. I actually have a Krenko deck, and a bunch of times I've won using Breath of Fury to take like 20 extra combats in a turn... But that's just going to be called winning through combat damage? Uh... Yeah I mean, it IS combat damage, buuuuuuuut....

[@healusion8912]

The. Why ask what is you wincon? Just put your wincon card in your deck and go lol, you don't need someone that's saying white is getting stronger to tell you to play your approach of the second sun or moonshaker cavalry

[@kylelloyd4437]

I think win con cards can be good, but sometimes I feel like having a card that is specifically a win con card, can be a wasted spot because it's so situational. But of course there are exceptions. 😊

[@JohnQueSacc]

"It does...stuff. hopefully." Is the best answer to the wincon question

[@rainbowcrash6990]

Agreed. I do like having a specific, "play to end game" wincon in some decks, but I'd never want more than 1 or 2 cards that only sit in my hand until the end.

[@cody98533]

I win with moon shaker cavalry in white which is a combat win , also a great finisher in my spirits deck ! Akroma’s will can also end games in white . In green I tend to use overrun effects to close things out . Red is normally burn, blue is normally combo or mass value through draw and artifacts . Nice video !

[@MediumChungus223]

I think what people mean by "but what is the wincon" slate used to giant, crowded boards of generic value engines, where the only way to win is something like Craterhoof Behemoth or a cyc rift. A lot of decks for the most popular commanders are midrange value engines that eventually just want to overwhelm the board. Salubrious Snail on KZbin makes great videos about this.

[@modrammeh2400]

Hey Demo (hopefully, I spelled that correctly), Long time fan. I really appreciate all of the advice you provide. This is probably my favorite channel on KZbin concerning MTG. I like Nitpicking Nerds, too. I'm very grateful for all of the advice - I have improved my decks exponentially with your help. Keep it up, bro!

[@modrammeh2400]

Oh - The patterns on those shirts are always Kick-Ass, too!

[@zandaman802]

I think a lot of players don't take advantage of having multiple ways to win the game and only have one strategy that can be stopped with either a stax card or basic removal. My current deck does early game aggression, then uses a board wipe with a protection spell, then late game burn if the agro gets stopped.

[@taurincochran3398]

YOWZA! You trimmed up your beard. Lookin good. 😄

[@BovinaSancta79]

I just built a Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck. I honestly love it, and would recommend it to anyone wanting a very different type of deck. It was more fun then I thought it would be. It's also only one of three decks that I have that can with without using combat at all (I have 13 in total). EDIT: Just after I wrote the first part you showed Animar. My version of that deck can win by abusing Ancestral Statue and having something in play that deals damage to each opponent. Basically an infinite combo. It doesn't need to attack at all. Even if it can win that way. I think. It hasn't happened yet LOL

[@Robert-vk7je]

Take a look at the Mishra, Eminent One precon. Whenever I played the deck, I noticed a severe problem to close out games. Even when I had a dominant position, games took way too long to finish (turn 15 and more). I put Reaver Titan, Knight Paladin and Bosh, Iron Golem in and it helped a lot! Edit: Combat damage only wins games, if you're actually able to get through. Flying, trample, unblockable and one sided board wipes are key in my opinion.

[@jasonritner9662]

When building a deck "how does this win?" is always a question I ask because otherwise you're never going to. "Combat" can 100% be the WinCon. There's nothing saying it can't be that. When asking, "What's the wincon?" you should sbe able to answer with specific ideas in mind. For example, my Zurgo Helmsmasher deck primarily concentrates on dealing Commander Damage. The cards in there support that goal. My Master, Transcendent is about making big creatures with 1/1 counters and proliferate with a secondary win via Radiation counters. Thats all anyone should ever mean by that statement. Knowing how your deck is capable of winning is just a basic part of deck comstruction. It doesnt need a specific combo, or alt wincon like Fellodar Soverign. It jist needs to know what it's supposed to do.

[@STS-qi1qy]

I think a lot of people look at overrun effects as if it was a combo as opposed to combat so really underestimate the amount of combat/combat wins. (Same with 'infinite combats')

[@heitortremor]

I built SUVs with Gold Rims (Shorikai's Unmanned Vehicles with Gold Sleeves) and it has 0 creatures in it. It's a lot of creature hate and my wincon is usually powering up all my vehicles with an army of pilots or with one of the effects that activates them otherwise (Danse of the Manse for example).

[@MrJpurvis620]

Combat damage is king! But how do you win with a creature light deck without comboing? Interested on your opinion on other "win conditions"; infect, mill, "win the game" cards, etc.

[@uhfrank]

noncombat damage that doesnt rely on any real combos is very much a thing in casual settings. i got one deck where the only creature in the whole deck is the commander itself, zero combos. though tbf its the master multiplied so the creature light becomes creature heavy real fast lol. but aside from that, i have a dragons approach deck. theres a single combo card in there with the thrumming stone, but for the most part it doesnt rely on it and can win simply by casting 3-9 damage to each opponent per turn as i sit behind a pillow fort. i got one deck where i make the opponent lose life whenever they decide to attack or interact with me or my board with some goading and forced combat to keep them motivated to hit my opponents. and lastly, i have a deck where im constantly lowering my own life total to get ahead in value and loaded the deck with exchange life total cards and cards that take advantage of the vulnerable position ill be visiting. im sure theres other ways to go creature light and put in some serious work in getting your opponents life to zero, but those are mine

[@spedcuber178]

I have almost no combat damage decks. The other people in my play group usually do creatures for combat DMG, and so it becomes a weird stalemate where no one wants to tap their creatures. So I play weird win con decks and direct damage to get around all the creatures. It usually leaves me open, but at least it breaks the stalemate

[@aldotrioksidi]

I have a Kenrith deck, but it's a combo deck, so I either win with combat damage with big tramplers or decking my opponents out, it mostly depends on the situation.

[@KveiraHj]

My wincon in every cars game I play is... play until I win. I love zombies, so I play zombies and cards that interact with zombies until I win, or lose, that is the plan. To me, if you put a wincon of 3 cards in a 100 cards deck, for what you play with the others 97 cards?

[@chamucoliz]

I'm my playground we do not use infinite combos, but we use burst card combinations example (tooth and nail get purphoros and avenger) plus combat damage, it makes games interesting and fun

[@forresthenry297]

I think when people are asking "what's your wincon", combat damage is understood. It's more useful to know how they'll win through combat damage. And a lot of people are worried about running into aimless value decks that just build mana and card advantage for the sake of mana and card advantage

[@Nephalem2002]

A lot of my Wincons are straight up combat damage or overwhelming force. Sure I have infinites in some of my decks but that doesn’t always guaranteed I’ll be able to use them.

[@biscuit710]

I’m winning with Shorikai by attrition. I’m making tokens all over the place, board wiping big stuff and non-tokens, and not too many people mess around when I can easily crew my Shorikai and other vehicles. I just keep accruing value until everyone else has bloodied each other, and then I make my strikes with flying cars crewing bigger flying cars.

[@Justrex01]

Most Magic players I have met have been exceptionally bright. That does not equal common sense, however. Some of them tend to be thick as a brick. What's my wincon? To outlive my enemies. It's worked for me so far.

[@shmackydoo]

On wincons, One of the best questions you can ask at the rule zero convo is 'does your deck need your opponents to win or can you win against three people by yourself?", this will greatly help determine the power level.

[@yesimchar]

can you elaborate on this? sounds interesting. i turn into archenemy a lot and usually spend most of the game in a 1v3 and often pull out a win still. doesn't really make sense to me since none of my decks can win before turn 8 or 9. you piqued my interest because I'm wondering if I need to find a way to make my decks not be able to win on their own somehow edit: it's all combat damage and I almost never end with an overrun so it's not like I'm comboing out of no-where.

[@lovroxyz3119]

​@@yesimchar i feel ya man, same here been struggling with leveling down go my playgroups level( they mostly use precons, which i find boring) and eaven when i built a deck that is unreliable as hell around level 5 i still manage to somehow find a way for my deck to vonit out all its eldrazi onto the board lmao Tried building a janky jon iranicus deck then relized that is probobly eaven more powerfull cos i love running interaction and could probobly just disable them from playing with them haveing no answers(aperently one of my more powerfull decks according to my friend and a website i use to since im new and cant tell power levels yet and first one i made)

[@Lazydino59]

I think “ How does your deck win” is a polite way of asking if someone is doing a combo strategy or plays infinite combos, because those are a step above “casual play what you want” and you need to actually prepare for them.especially with in-game threat assessment. For example if I know I’m playing against a combo deck I’m not going to treat it the same as a deck that doesn’t combo. There can be no dynamic threat assessment mid-game either because when the combo resolves the game is over. A perfect example is someone told me they were playing group hug so I didn’t remove their mana dork on my turn and then he slams freed from the real and wins on the spot. If I knew I had to be concerned for combos I would’ve killed the creature but I didn’t ask if he was trying to combo because he made it seem like he’s a big fun group hug player and deceived the table.

[@dontgetsore]

Not watching from my office desk today, watching from bed with covid. 😢

[@kylelloyd4437]

Feel better!

[@dontgetsore]

@@kylelloyd4437 ty friend

[@Robert-vk7je]

Get well soon!

[@storage_unit79f]

Dang me too

[@kendalltatom452]

The win-con in my Ovika, Enigma Goliath deck with no creatures is combat damage.

[@salmathe8bitSamurai]

When I hear win con, I think how is your deck closing out the game, usually in a burst. So infinite combo or like craterhoof or something, where it's the final push to win the game. Even if you're in aristocrats, it's the engine or cards that take your deck from draining 1 life at a time to draining the last 10 life for example all on one turn.

[@micahhonig1575]

Yeah you don’t need “win condition” slots in deck building most of the time. But you should be considering whether you have the right cards to leverage your strategy into victory rather than an eternal value engine.

[@leagreenall5972]

My commander' Captain Sisay.... what's your wincon? However I want ;) (Stax, Urza's Ruinous Blast, Elesh-Norn/Kamahl, Halo Fountain, Death Touch Poison, Throne of God-Pharoah.... oh and combat if needed ;)

[@martinolsen7183]

All animar ive ever seen win with getting inf counters on animar using ancestral statue while having either impact tremors out, all will be one or just casting walking ballista for inf mana. No combat damage needed

[@paullilienthal449]

I think less about Wincons now; I've decided they're tryhard speak for "OP card/busted combo," and now I focus more on achieving a "checkmate." Sometimes the whole deck works together to create a condition where you win, but people just get so caught up on "which card" it is. It's all of them. Together. Played correctly.

[@Jerhevon]

I do enjoy being loose with my win cons during deck building and letting play testing let the deck tell me how it wants to win. That said "by combat" Is incredibly glib. Because it doesn't address your plan to get past defenses and deal all that damage. Voltron support, haymakers, and overruns would then flesh out your combat step as wincons.

[@JDXTHEKID]

But wait demo... WHAT'S THE WIN CON THOUGH???!

[@taurincochran3398]

Not only does my Krenko deck win with combat damage, but I've also put in cards that deal passive damage, depending on what I'm doing, so that on the right turn, I COULD kill the table.

[@B0BBYL33J0RD4N]

Even if you dont have a win based on reducing their HP to 0, if you can reduce a threats hp to 20, sometimes another player will seize that opportunity to remove the weakened player. 1v1 really needs win cons. 1v1v1v1 means you need a win con, but you dont have to have every single card pointed that way.

[@timothydillard1355]

I had Prismatic bridge with a Superfriends theme. It was absolutely oppressive to the board. Mostly people just scoop to the sheer amount of abilities I was activating.

[@goopuman]

I think this whole "what's your wincon?" Thing might be a response to durdly blue permission type decks. Or at least it may have been initially. Funny enough, the answer is the same, usually. Sometimes mill, I guess, but generally even then it's just like "I'll be faster than you by virtue of slowing you down" rather than by speeding itself up.

[@Mihomiti]

I get this all the time with my group hug decks. My wincon is beating you while doing more with the gifts I give than you do.

[@joshuawoodring1697]

most of my decks run combat damage for the win but i've got an alara/gods deck that has gates as an alternate, i've got a ninth doct + clara that uses white as third color and getting azor's elecutors as an alternate if i don't get an army win first

[@jakynth]

Just built a mono black Shilgengar deck that is a combo win by reanimation. Load up the yard and then bring everything back which usually includes Gray Merchant.

[@hahahafunniness]

Fun commander. Handful of directions you can take it.

[@PALIGames]

Then im curious how many different win cons in a deck would you find acceptable.

[@sunbro7853]

My brother has a short Kai deck and it wins with extra turns and an opponent loses card when you have 15 artifacts or more in grave.

[@SaturninePlaces]

I wonder if there will ever be a video on this channel where the majority of commenters listen to the whole thing instead of just reacting to what they thought they heard. "When people say 'what's your wincon' what they're really asking is what's the blowout card you to win by playing" No duh, watch all the way to the end of the video. The point is that you don't need to focus on having "home-run" cards to win the game, just get your runs in and play effectively. It also just doesn't matter. If you're playing to win, you're not really playing to have fun. I'm playing to have fun, so I don't need to win, I just want to do what my deck is meant to do. Maybe that's just what's lost on those who ask the question in the title.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

yes, sadly this is another one of my videos where the main point was lost on people.

[@rainbowcrash6990]

As an animar player with a large creature deck... i def have purphorous, imoact tremors, cloud curio, and ancestral statue 😅

[@xeper9458]

I only have one deck, an upgraded Simic merfolk precon from Lost Caverns of Ixalan with Hakbal of the Surging Soul at the helm, that has Simic Ascendancy as a true alternate win con. However, I'm not a fan of winning like that unless absolutely necessary, so i usually keep it in hand until the game starts trending to a grindy battle of attrition. Other than that, my decks are mostly good ol fashioned turn my creatures sideways strategies, with a few exceptions employing a hybrid approach of either life drain and/or direct damage tactics

[@hahahafunniness]

This is how I approach combo wins as well. I like having access to them but I won't default to always playing the deck to combo off

[@ForgetfulPaladin]

Krenko's winning with just his flavor text "civil sanctions" lol

[@brendans1983]

I know a cheap card, financially AND cmc, that WRECKS Yuriko, Lathril, Miirym and Krenko. The same card also can really hurt/slow down Edgar Markhov and The Ur Dragon. Basically any tribal deck can get messed up by this card; Artificial Evolution.

[@Theanthill216]

Exactly; combat should be the main wincon in casual. If you’re running 2 and 3 card combos, dont have to attack to win, and consistently winning before turn 7, then that is not casual edh.

[@Vektor480]

What is it then? You'd call a turn 7, 3 card combo win competitive?

[@wafflehaxxx]

Personally, anything more powerful than a Craw Wurm on turn 6 into 20 combat steps to kill my opponents is not casual. Damn cedh players and their Serra angels. Not true to the spirit of Commander.

[@joshuawoodring1697]

saddly working on an atraxa deck for incubators, i don't want to use atraxa i'd rather a 3 color and i need to check if any of the new 3 colors are good but when i started the list there wasn't a good commander in g/bl/w that i wanted to run instead of atraxa. most of these commanders i find pretty boring actually XD, though i did finally get to try a jodah deck the other deck and that was bonkers.

[@maticman_]

Whats the alternate wincon?

[@jasonmartin4687]

Yeah idk, combat damage doesn’t really count as a win con. A win con is something that gives you an advantage, instead of passively waiting for someone else to kill your opponent’s. Most people would count something as win con if there is something that massively helps you deal combat damage like craterhoof or true convictions. Not every deck will have cards that count as win con cards. They just win with combat damage. *Also, with Sauron I win with fling effects

[@Poenas]

Pillow fort combo Kwain Itinerant Meddler. Definitely NOT combat damage.

[@austins7376]

I am currently on a 21-game losing streak in commander. My LGS made a homemade chart to track this crazy streak. Lol

[@goldcreeper7376]

That doesn't sound that crazy to me, but I only play duel commander. I'm guessing that you win a lot less on average with 4 people at a table, no? 😅

[@Constatonks]

My deck wins by going tall with fun counters and wide with enjoyment tokens.

[@narkfly]

Ooh, that sounds good. Got a deck list?

[@ReneMadsen-ky3bh]

I can take my current commander deck i played the book of Storm with codie so my win con is either a haste enabler plus either empty the warrens or elemental epution or steal my opponents creatures

[@PureSolace]

I play aggro... which means I don't win.

[@MisterWebb]

B U R N 🔥

[@NoctisVigil]

Pretty sure people build Sauron as aristocrats/combo. Or at least, all the versions of him I've ever seen are.

[@kylegrg1]

My shorakai deck is a reanimator deck, just attack with some big flying angels

[@eduardoagusti4528]

still people don't use fog effects and get surprised when I do

[@edhdeckbuilding]

so this is a lead up to my video about fogs

[@bastionbrom8927]

You may as well simplify it to "my win con is to use magic cards to win the game".

[@RealTal.]

toralf is a mono red deck that doesnt win through combat

[@joshcuker5877]

How do I win? Simple. I just play Shanna, Purifying Blade with about five or so board wipes so my deck can catch up; then make my opponents groan from either gaining too much life or board wiping too much😅

[@BoBnfishy]

Don't quote me on this but I think you're misunderstanding the question. People are asking "how do you avoid spinning your wheels and not affecting the game?", not just like "what are the mechanics that allow you to win?"

[@edhdeckbuilding]

okay so what is the answer to that question?

[@grantmurdock7385]

Even when I play Queza, Augur of Agonies, I don't go the obvious tutor and dial-a-combo route. It's full of connive nonsense and punches everyone in the face because it's more fun than card-draw solitaire. Sure, of course, I'm going to draw a lot of cards because it pings and keeps my life total high, but evasion and a few counters go a long way.

[@SVcreations43]

Gotta make an anti-Win con deck. No plan to win just a plan not to loose.

[@533rudiger]

I don’t think zombies win by combat damage do they? Wilhelt is a combo piece in the command zone 🤷‍♂️

[@edhdeckbuilding]

what's the combo?

[@533rudiger]

@@edhdeckbuilding Wilhelt likes Poppit factory. But I think in general Zombies are just terrible at combat. They have many combos tho

[@norrock1]

How are people having trouble getting 10 elves out?

[@bmprosser]

Yeah what is your win con means “how are you going to irreversibly break game parity”

[@brianlinden3042]

You're winning with combat damage in Arcades? I mean, sure, it's useful as a backup, but I've won FAR more games by going infinite with Axebane Guardian and then either milling everyone out with Doorkeeper, or venturing into the dungeon with Secret Door until everybody's dead.

[@goldcreeper7376]

This will change a lot depending on powerlevel, but I can definitely attest to seeing most Arcades players follow the good ol' "turn cards sideways" method (with zero backup plans)

[@granite_4576]

I really enjoy when there's some casual mill going on and people lose their 'wincon' cards. Like if your deck is so fragile that it relies on 3-5 specific cards to win, I'm sorry but you have a terrible deck. Also the longer I play commander the more I ignore bug splashy wincon cards. Last night I won a game with my token deck and someone said I would have got an easier win with Moonshaker Cavalry, but a card that is dead for 95% of a game and wins me it on the spot with very little work is not, in my personal taste, a card I want to play. Yes that includes craterhoof too.

[@justarabbit1982]

My Animar deck wins with Ancestral Statue and an ETB trigger.

[@MentalCrusader]

I only pay win cons in durdley decks like my Atraxa, Grand Unifier blink deck. Game's gotta end

[@dragondonahue6916]

I am just saying I use the wall commander and yes I win by combat but people always underestimate the walls, sorry my essentially 9/9 for 2 is not scary enough for you

[@wgault98]

I've seen rotcleaver decks combo into a deck out win he's really a bad example

[@mrurameshi9433]

Shorikai wins with board wipes and commander damage lol

[@cody98533]

Shorikai is a combo deck

[@edhdeckbuilding]

what's the combo?

[@cody98533]

@@edhdeckbuilding commander, intruder alarm and Ashnod’s alter is the main one

[@robertcarsten4050]

" How does white win the game" In my experience it's sephara hitting someone for 21 commander damage out of nowhere

[@mtggodzilla7308]

The real question must be. "White win games??" 😅

[@AlexOvTheAbyss]

Wincons? Psh. I just won a game last night by basically doing nothing.

[@pizzasinketchup1110]

I want anybody to teach me about shorikai. Thats my deck! D: AND I WANT TO KNOW HOW DO I WIN WITH IT

[@matthewvandyk7773]

Wait my tribal Treefolk shouldn't be isung combat damage to win? Haha 😄

[@patricklynch4074]

I feel like you're answering a question that isnt being answered? "Combat is my win con!" Oh so you're just hoping no one blocks you and doesnt hit back when you swing bit by bit? Thats not a win con Win con is "i plan to win through quickly producing evasive threats that my opponent cant block and beating them down"

[@edhdeckbuilding]

i hit you, you hit me, maybe you block, maybe you don't. yes that's a fundamental part of the game. and it's how most commander decks win. saying "my wincon is craterhoof" is absurd. what if you don't draw it? what if it gets countered? your deck can't win? no it still wins by combat damage, it just takes a little longer.

[@patricklynch4074]

@edhdeckbuilding my decks that win with craterhoof also have other effects like overwhelming stampede, overrun, jetmir. But what im getting at is "combat damage" is too vague to be helpful "My win con is going as wide as possible and overwhelming with an anthem or similar effect" is more specific

[@sunsfssb7699]

Of course you are going to win via combat damage. But HOW do you win via combat damage? You won't win with little Stax creatures only. You're going to need a finisher. Goblins and Elves go wide quickly. Dragons play ramp to bring finishers. Blink Decks go to value town to become unstoppable. Many Grixis Decks disrupt everyone so hard that even a little creature will win over several turns.

[@darkmatter32x]

I win by overwhelming the board with big fat creatures. And I dont deal with politics, politics deal with me.

[@zombiegodsire]

It's okay to just win through combat or good plays. Stop this narrative that everyone needs a hyper specific win con they should be playing for

[@jlbrooks74]

The logic here is a lot like asking a pro basketball team how they plan to win and their answer being "by shooting the ball and making it" 😂 no shit. When people ask about wincon they are not asking what you are addressing here. Wildly missing the point 😂

[@edhdeckbuilding]

care to explain it? or just stopped by to make an obnoxious comment?

[@jlbrooks74]

@@edhdeckbuilding @JEL625 nailed it pretty well. Further, to respond to the people asking "who does this?" and "why would I tell you my plan/what I'm weak to before the game starts"....to that I simply say: Most people don't ask what your win con is before a game starts. The question is most often asked when talking about a build that has been brewed. Player A - I just built the new Player B - nice. what's your wincon in that? a.k.a. what's the winning strategy or key cards you go for to close out a game? Or players may ask this when one person is in the middle of some long drawn out combo turn, casting and digging for cards, putting more pieces to their plan in play...other players may want to shortcut this nonsense and ask what the wincon is so they can just know how this game ends and move on to the next. We all know combat damage is how a great many games are won and many games are won without players getting to "the thing" they want their deck to do. I have a Saruman of Many Colors deck where the wincon is getting Eye of the Storm in play and keeping my opponents from using it while I absolutely abuse it and storm off for the win. I don't necessarily announce this at the start of the game but if we chat afterwards and I didn't get there I am likely to say that is what I was going for. It's just nice to know there is a plan in place besides putting creatures on the board and hoping attacks get through.

[@GreenH0cker]

I'm gonna test my version of Nadu tonight. it's actually a Frog bounce/etb deck that I stuck Nadu in command of. So now I'll use Nadu as a draw engine and then bounce him into my hand so I don't deck myself because of each new instance of a creature resetting his ability... and proceed to use Aluren to play my creatures for free or use Earthcraft with a horseshoe crab to dance my way to victory after I have half of my deck to use

[@danielprivate8038]

Algo 100

[@ChazTheYouthful]

I went with Nadu, and generally the condition is "draw cards and win", stupid easy with turbo bird draw. Oddly enough the most common one that pops up is a swiftboot 20 toed toad that attacks the same turn you draw enough cards.

[@WattHowar-e9i]

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