The Kpop Idol Factory: Mass Producing Perfect Idols is a Problem

If I’m already too old to be a Kpop idol I’ll just be an AI generated one instead
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Today we’re looking at the training process people go through to become Kpop Idols. After the Korean wave there’s been a huge increase of talented young hopefuls hoping to break into the industry. Who wouldn’t want to live a life of fame, pursuing your passions of singing, dancing, influencing millions all over the world, working with luxury brands, and getting your own friend chicken commercial - the possibilities are endless! We’ve seen names like BTS, Twice, and Blackpink become famous all over the world. But the thing about this assembly line is that there is a really high standard of quality that is extremely hard to meet. Even if you’re scouted and signed with a company, the training process might deter you away from succeeding in the idol business. From getting pre-debut plastic surgery, bad dieting culture, losing out on many years of your life, and overworking yourself, you might want to reconsider this line of work. The Kpop Idol Factory: Mass Producing Perfect Idols #edvasian

[@thylionheart]

I’m a fan of Stray Kids and my bias is Bang Chan. He debuted in 2018 at 20, but he left Australia to join JYP when he was *13.* And it shows. By that I mean, yes he’s incredibly skilled, yes he can dance amazingly and his producing skills are top notch, but……you don’t have to watch a lot of his vlives before you realize how much being a trainee for 7 years has messed with his self-image and self-esteem. From him talking about his disorganized eating habits to tiny, absolutely minuscule nitpicks about his face not being “symmetrical” to him saying he hates seeing his face without makeup to him outright stating _on more than one occasion_ that he doesn’t love himself…….it’s brutal. It’s sad. I want to support him because I’ve come to admire him, but I want to tear down the trainee system that messed with a young kid’s mind and gave him deep-seated “complexes” (as Chan calls it) well into his adult life.

[@jellybee9760]

That's so sad gosh!!!😭😭

[@thedayhopeworldbroketheint7669]

It's so sad that being in this industry makes everybody question their own talents and looks. Channie is a great example, he's one of all-round idols and yet he brings himself down every possible moment. I wish that one day he will realize what we already know: that he's a beautiful man with a kind, open personality, a person with many talents and great leadership skills. And he'll simply love himself.

[@jeannettemaldonado4628]

💚💚💚💚🤘🤘🤘🤘love all my stays, and you're 💯 correct on the brutality.

[@fireflieer2422]

oh no i didnt know that.. That’s so brutal, especially considering that he basically spent his whole teenager years to train and anticipating his own debut.

[@jacklyn1999]

i thought about him as well during the video

[@racheljohnson7177]

Kpop is not a genre but an industry. A huge part of kpop's appeal is the way it's packaged and delivered to fans. It's at the idols expense, not ours, so I get why people wouldn't feel comfortable supporting an industry that transforms and exploits it's youth for profit. People like to say they're just here for the music but we all know it's more than that.

[@userrexha2525]

100% true, the people are the products, and that's why you'll find, these groups with many fans always selling quite well, even if the music is TERRIBLE... cause it's not the music the fans are obsessed with, it's the idols. And these fans will always support anything the idols do...too sad

[@racheljohnson7177]

@@userrexha2525 at the end of the day if it's the music you enjoy then enjoy it. But as a fan you should be aware of what the industry entails and stay level headed in the process.

[@pjihae]

Yes. I'm Korean American and my non Korean friends were always way more into Kpop than me because I never liked that it was such a contrived and exploitative industry. I hated how identical they wanted everyone to look.

[@racheljohnson7177]

@@pjihae that's something I have an issue with too. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think based on what I've heard and observed about Korean culture there isn't a whole lot of individuality within the society and there is a sort of pressure to fit into what is accepted. This then creates a lot of similar people.

[@pjihae]

@@racheljohnson7177 Yes, this is true. I think part of it is cultural, exacerbated by the relatively newer impact of capitalism that has us churning out 'perfect' idols to the world to the detriment of our own people.

[@dreamcatcher9689]

Pff , it would fuck me up mentally being in a group with an AI member, like how can you compete with "someone" who always has perfect behaviour, can never gain weight or get acne, never gets sick, exhausted. And then having to make videos being all hee hee hee and ha ha ha with somebody who does not even exist. They're much stronger than me, i would just pack my bags.

[@hatehumans9206]

I feel this whole AI thingy seriously affects their mental health...

[@Leo-nh9ui]

He actually does exist, the have someone who is getting motion tracked and is also singing the lines of the ai character. So definitely not perfect all the time behind the scenes XD

[@ruum9]

And don't forget the fact that he's the center. Like the face of the group. Imagine working hard to debut and your group is centered around a non existent person.. His concept is not bad and it can be brought pretty well if worked on but I personally think he should've been a solo artist instead of a group member because he certainly creates a weird impression on the group and overshadows the other members who don't get equal presence

[@abbey5899]

@@Leo-nh9ui It would be kinda cool if a whole group could just do the singing and choreography, and then get super perfect characters projected over them so they don't have to worry as much about their looks on top of everything else.

[@vixxexo6855]

What you mean? If talking about Aespa the AI members only appear sometimes in the music videos and the members themselves don’t complete with the AI. Like the AI are there for the music videos and are like a part of each member. If talking about Naevis or however you spell that name is also just part of the concept where Naevis sacrifised herself for the real Aespa members to defeat the black mamba.

[@themagicknightress7132]

They don’t want their idols to be fit. They want them to have the bare minimum muscle mass to survive

[@Boss_etc853]

@leo and being in the military

[@ayakaimpacts]

8:20 - and this is why i disagree with the compliments that goes along the lines of "they're sick and yet they give us their all, and that's more of the reason we love them". i absolutely appreciate my favorite artists who always give their best, but if it costs their health to the point they endanger themselves and slow down other people in work, it's not worth it. it never has. these companies really need to get it together and put less strain on the idols' physical & mental health. i do NOT want to see another idol's life lost again.

[@Arguing.With.Idiots.]

Toxic positivity do be like that

[@vixxcelacea2778]

@@Arguing.With.Idiots. Toxic positivity is so damn insidious. At least someone saying something horrible is showing their real colors. It's the people encouraging you to destroy yourself that are (usually unintentionally) just the other side of the same damn coin.

[@picklepirate]

Right, the fans should be angry and demand for more fair work environments for artists

[@Gr95dc]

it is super fucked up to read those comments. It also shows that the person making said comments is probably below 20 yo, because when you're older and had already experienced what it's like to go to work or to uni sick, you most likely wouldn't be saying something so tone deaf and stupid.

[@talynhastime9343]

This “work while sick” thing is a horrible mindset to have, and it’s something the West also has a huge problem with in”grind” culture. I don’t want to watch or support someone who works themselves to the bone to entertain me. I want them to eat right, pursue hobbies, have a life beyond devoting every breath to work. I get it, it’s admirable, but I’m tired and completely over the idea that you need to break yourself for the sake of others. Maybe others should realize you’re human and deserve time off to recuperate. Why do we expect so much out of people and yet balk when we’re asked to put in the same effort? “Oh I could never do that”, then why are you demanding THEY do it for your entertainment?

[@aestheticcat8976]

I appreciate more and more people are painting a realistic image of what the kpop industry is like, so often I see it glamorized with serious issues being glazed over with a brush of perfection which leads to especially younger fans being delusional about the industry or what to expect from it if they want to pursue becoming an idol (no hate). I was once a younger fan with this mindset until I watched a 'darkside of kpop' video, followed by other videos that are similar in nature and now my mindset has completely changed about the kpop industry. I do still listen to the music, it's just that I know now that it's not all glamorous or perfect and there's no reason for me be envious of the lifestyle of a kpop idol.

[@juliette0523]

Can I just say your writing style is very engaging? And yeah, these videos don't make me think k-pop is 'perfect' anymore.

[@ryeofoatmeal]

I had that phase too, thinking kpop is all sunshine & rainbow. until I stumbled upon the dark side of kpop. I was shocked to learn about their contract. I thought they're going to be with that company forever. and the disbandment if the group didn't make any progress... and also the pressure of the members tryna looking good all the time. and the most shocking thing to me at least is the rigorous train from morning til midnight. that's more than 12h... now i know why they're so good. but it just not healthy for a long term. since then I'm very careful not to judge all the glorious lifestyle they have :(

[@xrrgr]

eh, there were hundreds of dark side of kpop thru the 2010s too. before i even got fully into kpop, i just remember watching kpop idols fainting compilations

[@Nonahh3love]

While I Stan kpop i never went deep into kpop cuz I was still adult I never even thought “perfect” I’m aware people aren’t prefect then I watch videos of dark of kpop and my mind change that made me not into much kpop ..I still listen and watch their videos *sometimes*

[@aestheticcat8976]

@@ryeofoatmeal From my earlier memories what was shocking for me to see was the constant weight checks and managers taking food away from idols, alongside that came these very restrictive diets that is basically starvation to lose a lot in a short amount of time. Now as an adult I've learned harmful behaviors can form from them learning these behaviors in their trainee days, like EDs and them having a warped image of themselves. It can most definitely cause a mental and physical strain, I've read a lot of female idols don't have their regular menstrual cycle thanks to these elements paired with immense stress plus a busy schedule.

[@leuserafim]

17:01 Kyla’s bullying story was terrible. Her story is probably one of the worst body shaming incidents in kpop. Kyla was literally ignored by fans during events. She was sent DTS and was bullied so much that Pledis Entertainment decided to put her on hiatus from Pristin (She also had an injury at the time) Fast Forward to 2019 when Pristin was forced disband. Kyla was put on the spot light again when allegedly some people on discord said she was a terrible person (this was proven false) and her own brother said it would’ve been better if she had just K*lled herself. And guess what was brought up during all of this her *weight*. I’m just glad Kyla is back in America doing better

[@Chocolavacakeloco]

Umm what is the full form of dts ?

[@leuserafim]

@@Chocolavacakeloco it’s kpop netizens, trolls will d the most. I heard the dts part from somewhere it could be wrong but it wouldn’t be too far fetched

[@ML-rs7we]

Sorry for my poor English. What is DTS?

[@leuserafim]

@@ML-rs7we death threats

[@lilliesinthegard32]

Her brother did what

[@Cepheus.Ohayon]

I think a lot of people have a positive outlook on the new group ‘New Jeans’ because none of us have actually grasped the fact that one of them is 14. And in my opinion i think its completely understandable to think that considering they dress and commercialise her as a far more matured figure than what she already is. Groups dont last long, especially if they’re not globally known (except few + new jeans is already very well known internationally) and by the time they disband the girl will be at oldest, in her mid twenties. She’ll probably have it tough not knowing what comes next and as more and more idols and trainees come through, they wont have enough room for older ones to stay. It’s uncomfortable watching them become younger and younger, especially when we know for a fact what they’re singing about isn’t what a 14 year old should be talking about. As of now its a very positive group but I’m genuinely really concerned for all of their future wellbeing. Édit: yes Im aware that several other idols have debuted at similar ages Im just using her as an example. And yes I know a lot of them are still very successful to this day but I’m saying as we progress further into the future I’m scared that they may grow up and not fit the standard or have someone ‘better’ than them debut, shunning them into the corner. I think we should normalisé idols debuting at older ages especially with how freaking scary and exploitative the internet is now.

[@suzyfan1427]

You said this do well. Nowadays all people care about are the younger idols ESPECIALLY when it come to ggs and I’m honestly scared for what the future holds for them.

[@crazyowlgirlcncowner]

The amount of younger KPop fans that fight tooth and nail to defend NewJeans is astonishing. They don't realize that it's not okay for minors to be presented that way. Like, the members of NewJeans are victims of the over sexualization of young kids. And maybe one day they will grow up and lament themselves for having their childhood taken away from them. And the young fans always think we're attacking the girls themselves, which is never the case. Most older KPop stans want minor idols to be protected. Yes, they should reach their dreams but in an age appropriate way and in a way they are not put in danger. I actually love their music but it is much more suitable for grown women to have sung it. Like a 20 year old. If that was a group of university aged young women singing cookie then I'd be in board. But 14 year olds, yeah no. I'm glad people like you also see the issue.

[@yessica5231]

I think new jeans is a very talented group with a great sound and concept. Though you can't just not link them to mhj and her predatory behavior and her history with other idols. I do think they should've waited until they were all at least high school age to debut.

[@Cepheus.Ohayon]

@@crazyowlgirlcncowner THIS, YES. You explained it far better than i have but i can’t agree more with your statement. Blooming too early before spring has started will cause those flowers to deteriorate faster and be forgotten about quicker. Those that bloom later in season are the ones that stick in our minds longer and have colours far more vibrant than any early bloomers could ever have.

[@mozieg]

@@crazyowlgirlcncowner omg. listening to cookie knowing there’s a 14 year old singing it is definitely unsettling

[@myaccountgotdeleted9999]

“These dances are like 90% shoulder and 10% anger.” *shows fetus one direction* You didn't have to do them dirty like that 😭😭

[@KelineChannel]

[@SippingIcedTea]

I don’t listen to K-pop but I’ve always pictured the K-pop industry like a factory producing products (the groups) nonestop.

[@mrsnobody2637]

it kind of is that way and it's hella creepy, especially if someone who's not into kpop can see it

[@tm8799]

this is actually every music industry. kpop just perfected it. look back at the mickey mouse club from the 80s and see how many of them became stars. Those stars have been training since 10 and ppl wonder why Britany is the way she is.

[@gurunhitam3414]

@@tm8799 You mean Disney pop culture? Perhaps they gone the same way but not as strict as K-Pop. I'm sure you mean Britney Spears

[@beany1944]

not all K-pop companies are like that. BTS has a contract but can date, write and produce their own songs, which they do by the way, if they date I don't know. . Plus in your own countries its not much better either. In your own country all all music artists have contracts that they must follow, hence court cases to get out of it. DKDK TV covered this subject extensively already.

[@terminatorhd889]

@@beany1944 bts is like, one of the few exceptions and that's because they're really popular and brought a lot to their company. what we see in the video is the reality for many if not most trainees, and if you didn't know literally every job needs a contract. And I'm not saying the usual music market isn't hell either, it's as bad but don't use BTS to excuse the poor quality of life trainees have to endure 99% of the time

[@jigglypuddin1345]

One thing I have always found weird about k-pop is the absolute obsession and praise of toxic western beauty standards. These companies will tell their trainees/idols to get their eyelids done, their noses made pointier, and a whole myriad of other procedures and then proceed to dye their hair blonde and make them wear blue contacts (as an example) for photoshoots. It is so twisted to me how a huge majority of the industry is Korean yet they don't want them to look it...

[@elodie4016]

True

[@oo8962]

Because people always like the opposite of how they look. As an asian, there's this magical feeling when I see people that naturally has blonde hair, really fair skin and blue eyes. Same with people with albinism. They look like they're an elf or some magical being. I think kpop want to look striking and different. That way they could make regular people see the idols as some kind of higher being, a perfect being, someone to be worshipped. Which is not good for us fans but good for the company in order to get money from the fans.

[@levithebaddest2369]

@@oo8962 Yeah it's true that people always like the opposite. Asians like white features but many white people are obsessed with the Asian look these days. Especially monolids

[@eliza1826]

@@levithebaddest2369 nope, that’s Asian cope, I’m not even white but it’s so cringey that’s Asians try to claim white people want to look asian. Asian kpop do plastic surgery to look european .

[@eliza1826]

@@levithebaddest2369 monolid looks like Down syndrome eyes. Imagine thinking people want that

[@HiHello-go2er]

As a teenager I remember being happy when I saw idols around my age debut! Back then I didn’t know how damaging that might have been to them… Idols should at least be 17-18 to debut.

[@kitt6693]

same here! hyein from new jeans is just a few months older than me, but we are currently the same age. i was surprised she was a k-pop idol at her age, i was happy to hear someone my age had accomplished such wonderful goals, because i dream of becoming a singer in the future of everyone complimenting my singing. then i found out how toxic the kpop industry can be, from plastic surgery to the endless dieting and working hours, and not to forget the sexualization that came with the song cookie. i then realized that most of the people there had missed out on their childhood, and it saddened me. my favourite group so far, TWICE, saddened me when i heard about momo’s incident with ice cubes for a week, just to lose weight. i’m pretty sure when i had lost weight from not eating too much due to my boarding i had lost 4kg a year after being in the school, and i was 49kg, and i’m quite short. then i found out jihyo was my same weight! and she’s very much taller than me, and it’s unhealthy. i really hope the kpop industry becomes healthier and a better place to work in

[@quirkywoman8969]

and the worst part is that they're debuting/training idols at a younger age.

[@gurunhitam3414]

If you debuted and being trainee at very young age, that means you will sell your privacy and personal life forever and you will be exposed and criticized even just for a trivial thing that you're doing. You might feel power at the stage, but behind the stage you just don't have power whatsoever.

[@quirkywoman8969]

@@gurunhitam3414 they maybe don't have power on stage.

[@CB-yr4hq]

When i was younger i stanned Boys Story and NCT Dream when they first debuted. I didnt think much of it but now that I'm an adult I really feel bad for the fact that tehy debuted at such a young age.

[@Onyx516]

We also can't forget how scandals can legit ruin their career. I mean I get it if they've been arrested or something like that, but a false bullying rumor??? C'mon man

[@Onyx516]

@leo yea, I'm still so salty about that

[@ruum9]

Those rumors could be completely made up bullshit created by an anonymous person on the internet to spread hate on an idol. When they get so bad they notify the company of that idol, they won't bother protecting the idol, they'll just kick them out because it's easier. And we never get to know if the rumors were true or not unless the idol speaks up about it after they get kicked out.

[@chimchimsjamkookies4242]

Bullying is a very serious issue in Korea and a lot of children get killed every year because of it. So, people tend to overreact when it comes to even anonymous rumors.

[@tesscrelli783]

IMO this comes down to the companies caring about their own reputations more than the idols themselves. To them, idols are replaceable. So when an idol runs into controversy, they fire the idol instead of protecting them. That's part of what I hate about the industry- we're meant to see the idols as humans when not even their companies do.

[@georgiana1147]

its kinda ironic that when its about bullying sudenly everyone believes the anonymous person but when someone says(or multiple people say) theyve been SA'd by a certain person(we all know who im talking about) they dont believe them

[@Lioi-_-]

The seulgi diet ☠️☠️☠️☠️ It went viral after seulgi reviled her pre comeback diet on some show A week before a comeback she eats some almonds and drink one glass of almond milk for every meal. That's not all! she eats "all of that" while being active (dancing and running) The worst part of that she effected many young girls So many young teens tried the diet and harmed their bodies because they wanted to get her body I remember all the youtube videos of girls trying the diet,its so horrible The industry doesn't only affects the idols but also the viewers

[@1991rendrawati]

my sister is Sone and she was a victim from this kind of "perfect body image" diet. the result was she must stayed at hospital for a week.

[@stormyk244]

The way these girls dance and train all day, they really need to be eating real food and lots and lots of it. I cannot support the K-pop industry because of how eating disorders are basically required. This kind of “dieting” is not sustainable and it will destroy these people as they age.

[@vysteria_]

@@1991rendrawati Is she okay now? I hope to God she is

[@TheMarvelsEdits-ce7ux]

This is so true. Many viewers feel pressure on themselves to look like idols, and sometimes I feel that way too, but we don’t see ways that they have been twisted to fit beauty standards.

[@marriedtothemusic2858]

idols such as boa, taemin, hyuna, iu etc that have debuted at 13-14 have talked about how incredibly harsh the industry was for them when they debuted. a lot of them debuted during the 2000's so laws weren't that strict and they suffered from insane schedules and even harassment from fans older than them. boa was literally sent to japan on her own by sm and didn't even have an interpreter or guide to help her navigate through. shinee's debut concept was also aimed at older women so almost half the members were crazily harassed in fansigns and even on variety shows. i personally think we should just stop debuting kids, the minimum age should be 17 but even that seems too young for me ngl

[@flordemaga8497]

Age 21-25 seems like a good one to start as a trainee, you ended high school & you're biologically a young adult, and you hadn't to loose your childhood nor teenage years.

[@samihakamal8476]

@@flordemaga8497 But then by the time you debut you're 'too old' That is if they debut at all.

[@jordicarvajal2834]

Rules weren't that strict back during the 2nd generation but since the 3th and especially now the 4th generation, rules have become much more stricter

[@jordicarvajal2834]

@@samihakamal8476 I agree. Idols would be too old and K-pop mostly targets the youth

[@eatingmygrandmasbed]

@@samihakamal8476 facts blackpink debuted around like ages 18 to 21, and they're one of the most popular girl groups, still young but finished with highschool

[@rin55]

Tbh korea's education system is no less crazy than idol training system, which not many people recognize

[@jemappelleheejin12]

not just korean edu system entire asia's edu system is harsh like that

[@rin55]

@@jemappelleheejin12 yup

[@Blooming09]

@@jemappelleheejin12 nah not all Asian countries, I live in an Asian country and it’s not as strict as Korean or Chinese edu systems for sure. It’s more strict than western edu systems I guess but definitely not that bad

[@rinsolaris2284]

​​​​​@@jemappelleheejin12Asia isn't just East Asia. Southeast Asia and Western Asia doesn't have a super toxic, competitive education system like East Asia. South Asia is an interesting case because you have India, which has a competitive education system, but you have Nepal and Bhutan, which is chill. Imo the driving force behind East Asia's competitiveness is Confucian values. The more confucian a society, the harsher they seem to be. Korea is the most confucian society in the world.

[@RavenHaili]

The future of kpop: become so perfect you're not even human anymore

[@KelineChannel]

[@georgiana1147]

stop saying that they will get new ideas lol💀

[@BELIEVER78989]

And fans will be still into that💀

[@mercykachigunda9418]

Whats weird is that even if you make it, they still have a visual member in the group who is held as the most beautiful or handsome within you. And they are put in the center, gets more ad deals, gets to be in movies, and the rest are just there as his or her backup dancers. at least in some groups, the popularity of members is distributed fairly and all members get solo activities.

[@1991rendrawati]

agree, omg. after 2ne1 (I knew theye're too far from perfect), I haven't see another group that treat their members equal. it's obvious, like one day RV did a concert in Indonesia, while all the girls wore white and black outfits, Irene wore a bright dress... my sister who watched the concert said,"SM is shameless to show who are their favourite".

[@georgiana1147]

i dont hate Astro but this is literally Eunwoo

[@justvibing2171]

Wonyoung in Ive

[@georgiana1147]

@@Devilsadvocate23 yeah,it aint his fault,its society s fault

[@BELIEVER78989]

​@@georgiana1147literally thought about him, but yeah his popularity definitely helped his group too🤷‍♀️

[@RedDeadReverie]

The Kpop industry heavily influences beauty standards all over the world. Idols are famous for their eating disorders or “diets” and it pressures young teens into that mentality.

[@quirkywoman8969]

then it's glorified with all these youtube videos.

[@RedDeadReverie]

@@quirkywoman8969 There’s a difference between glorification and spreading awareness. Edvasian spoke on this topic very respectfully. People need to know what’s going on in the industry and how it affects everyone.

[@quirkywoman8969]

@@RedDeadReverie I know but when youtubers do those diet challenges their doing it for fun yet in reality those diets are toxic.

[@RedDeadReverie]

@@quirkywoman8969 Oh yeah, definitely. Diet culture is inherently toxic. The people making those videos are helping promote ED.

[@quirkywoman8969]

@@RedDeadReverie they are plus kpop fans are watching it so now they'll try to do it for fun and hurt themselves.

[@helplessheroine2641]

Kpop idol diets were RAMPANT in the pro-ana scene (probably still are but I'm not there anymore) and access to all these idols measurements, so many numbers to compare yourself to. But now I just can't understand how it doesn't look awful for the labels when their idols go through these insane diets. Actively doing harm to your body like that should never be encouraged.

[@Growler673]

Congrats on your recovery! (I assume) Or at least on escaping such a toxic space. Spending time in those forums is so damaging, I can't even imagine the impact of living in a culture as strict as South Koreas and a working environment with so much pressure. It's scary to even think about how easily a vulnerable aspiring idol could be pushed to sickness when completely submerged in it.

[@kendallbenbow7970]

I'm actually writing a research paper on this exact topic!! And having looked through pro-ana kpop accounts I can sadly say it's true. What's even crazier about the measurements is that they're not even accurate. Once I saw someone claim a kpop idol had a 17 inch waist which is not even physically possible for an adult woman, even if she was extremely petit. It's crazy.

[@murabula2092]

pardon the ignorance but what is pro-ana

[@tessiepinkman]

@@murabula2092 Pro-Ana is Pro-Anorexia, Pro-Mia is Pro-Bulimia. It's forums and places where people share photos of their and other's bodies and how to lose as much weight as possible _(among other things),_ since they are anorexic/bulimic. It's a *very* toxic environment to be in, especially since all the people there are really sick - or on their way to becoming sick - and encourage each other with "thinspo" _(thinspiration = images of really REALLY sick girls and boys, basically bones and flesh, and ways to fool your parents that you have eaten and much more)._ It took me from when I was 12 _(when I first got sick)_ until about a year ago _(when I was 32!)_ to finally "undo" most of the harm that eating disorders did to me, with the help of *a lot* of therapy. That's 20 fucking years! I wouldn't wish that upon *anybody* in the world, absolutely nobody. It is horrible. I was born -90, so I grew up during the early 2000's and the truly EXTREME "size 0 is too big" and "Heroin chic"-period that it was, and I'm watching in pure horror as those horrible looks and trends are getting back in style. Though it feels a thousand times worse now, since every child and teen has a super-computer in their pocket with access to the internet _(your phone)_ and at least we didn't have that when I was a kid and young teen and became sick. We had to really look and search out those communities, they didn't just pop up in your feed out of nowhere. I can only imagine how hard it is to grow up now. *EDIT:* I'm actually really glad that you didn't know what it was. Stay the heeell away from those "communities", it's toxic and dangerous. Trust this formerly *very* eating disordered Swedish woman. Please? :) You never fully recover from an eating disorder, you get better, and you learn to think differently about food. But it's like an addiction, you will always have to fight to stay healthy. It gets easier with time, but it never fully goes away, and you have to keep control over yourself if you feel like you're straying. That's it. Merry Christmas! :)

[@princessaroyale]

​@@murabula2092places on social media full of people with eating disorders trying to lose weight in dangerous ways and encouraging and peer pressuring others

[@tiwarikanika66]

The fact that xiumin still sometimes say that he is chubby when he has less then 0 percent fat in his body. Shows how much this impacted him. Also for somi. People dissed her after her show for weight gain but love her when she is 45 kg??

[@boombayuna536]

exactly and it's especially concerning considering the fact that somi herself said that she had to get an iv drip because she was too weak for her schedules due to all the dieting and weight loss :/

[@ajc94]

Less than 0%? Sis he would be dead lol

[@Blooming09]

Xuimin is not fat at all, it saddens me how society makes us worry so much about things like this..

[@ChicaBuenosAires]

And then, after everything they go through, they either get popular and inmediately get scrutinized by the entire world for anything they do, or they don't become popular, end in debt and having wasted years of their life for a dream that didn't become true. So sad. Thank you for talking about this in a respectful and unbiased point of view

[@annakazama4799]

So as a Vocaloid "Fan" that's used to the concept of fake 3D singer, I really would prefer watching 3D generated Idols and knowing that no one got abused and put in dangerous phisical condition. That's the reason why I can't really listen to kpop, it gives me the chills to know that those idols fear not waking up. People shouldn't be products.

[@Riu-bw4bl]

I’ve said this for so long it’s nice to hear someone else actually think this way too. You can be a fan of a 3D or virtual idol and know since there not human being abused or that your supporting an abusive system. No one really gets hurt in the process. I can no longer thing anything positive about the K-pop industry now that it seems a lot of it’s problems only got worse

[@annakazama4799]

@@Riu-bw4bl it really got worse to the point it became an assembly line not a music industry... I always used to compare Kpop with Jpop but now don't even think about it. There's no point anymore

[@annakazama4799]

@@Riu-bw4bl also to the "fake the 3D singer Idol" there's a darker side too (as for everything really): and we have to keep some kind of balance between the "fake/fabbricated" and "the uncanny valley feeling". Vocaloids aren't a perfect example of that balance, you know that they are fake and they don't freak you out with their look... But doing that to a real human Idol? Also let's say that some corporation wants to enter the industry without telling the viewer their idol it's fake? I mean what about the rights of someone who is using their likeness and voice for a 3D model? Are they going to have rights in the kpop industry?

[@lailataluminousnight8064]

Vocaloid is kpop done right with actual lyrics lol

[@ceve]

@@annakazama4799 The movie "Pixel Perfect" came to my mind

[@kerronwalker1589]

This system actually started way back in the early 90s after the break up of Seo taji and the boys with groups like H.O.T, S.E.S, Fin.k.l, g.o.d, shinhwa and them. If you look at all the groups before seo taji debut the talent pool in Korea was based around natural talent, once Japan started debuting its first jpop groups in the early 80s Korea basically took that format and turned it up 1000 times more. The first generation of idols was more vocal based but still the basics of idols where there, almost mirroring that of Japan. It wasent till the scouting of BoA, Rain and se7en where they took dance lessons more seriously and started learning other languages, this generation of solo artist really redefined the idol system, with BoA debuting at the age of 14 and debuting and competing in Japan at the age of 15, Then there was rain who basically debut and took the whole of Asia by storm he debut at 17, then se7en he basically built YGs early years up to be the company it would be. The only other prominent first gen artist that held her own during that time was lee hyori but her journey was a bit different because she based her career on the fact that she debut solo and become so successful in Korea that others had no choice but to follow. Then the peak of the second gen artist started happening which seen the debut of more groups and started the trend of younger idols and bigger groups and they started grabbing the attention of western artist. Also the whole industry of being in an idol group is backed by the government to push South Korea's soft power.

[@elliotoliver8679]

K Pop requirements: Looks, talent, dance, sing - but much much more than that is having an extraordinary work ethic

[@ynat2198]

Seo taiji is an absolute icon, he was and still is the only korean rock star i have listened to repeatedly, and i found him through jrock. He was on the level of Gackt. Maybe he's classified as kpop but he was definitely krock in my books.

[@imwastingmytimeonthis677]

damn u could make a whole power point about the history of kpop 😰💀

[@phizzy123]

i was with you until you said se7en was the one that built yge up to be the company it would be today, that was largely and unanimously bigbang’s doing. yge didn’t even get big 3 status prior to bigbang.

[@kerronwalker1589]

@@phizzy123 if you actually look at it in the early years I mean from his debut in 2003 till big bang debuting in 2006 so for 3 years while big bang was training up Se7en was YGs most successful artist at the time. Not discrediting big bang at all but YG was not having a great time with only finding minor success in 1tyme, gummy and wheesung. So in that terms yeah se7en was one of YGs most successful early early artist.

[@msSweeTae]

I hope it doesn't come off weird, but when you said that even you had trouble telling members apart I was suprised. I thought it's just a "non asian" problem. New into K-Pop back in 2012 I remenber thinking that Yoona and Krystal are the same person and that Teayeon and Jessica are related in some way. It really feels like as if the industry looks at a few examples of idols who are very popular and try to clone them.

[@Boss_etc853]

Im black and i cant tell black people apart if theyre all dressing the same and have almost the same face in a big group lol

[@mightymeatymech]

Lol I used to feel bad about not being about to tell the members apart either, or mixing up Korean actors but then I remembered I mix up black and white and other ethnicities too. When the beauty standard for that industry is so narrow it's easy to mix them up I think

[@empressmarowynn]

Basically every white guy in American Horror Story except for Evan Peters looks identical. Ryan Murphy clearly has a type and likes to cast only those who fit that type. Same thing for K-pop. When you have a very narrow definition of how you want someone to look then you either need to find the few who already do or force others into that mold. And the end result is everyone looking like a clone. Some groups can take me weeks of constantly watching their material and others all I need is one M/V and a profile page and I got it. It just depends on how much the company insisted on sticking with the aesthetic script for the members.

[@TheLiKaXD]

I got introduced to NCT recently and I cannot stress enough how it was difficult to tell some members apart, specially when all 23 members were together or it was mixed with all units. And I'm asian too. The issue is with beauty standard in K-pop that makes clones. Just searching "SM cloning their idols'" and there are some videos showing how they really are looking for clones sometimes.

[@somethingggggg]

@@TheLiKaXD Tbh with NCT they look quite different from each other. One thing I’ve noticed is that the China line in almost every K-pop group is more natural or hasn’t had anything done. If you look at Xiaojun, Hendery, Kun, chenle (NCT), Wang Yibo (Uniq), Jun (Seventeen), they look the same as they did predebut. Also ningning, shuhua, xiaoting, Cheng Xiao and much more look like they haven’t had anything done or much done at the very least. I know this doesn’t have much to do with your point but it’s something I noticed and I wonder how a lot of Chinese idols haven’t succumbed to the pressure of plastic surgery in this really harsh industry.

[@theunknown3258]

i appreciate everyone with a platform talking about how crazy and abusive the kpop industry is.. these poor kids and not just that.. i am also a fan but I hate to see that these kpop idols cant be themself or defend themselves against fans and have to do mostly want they want

[@quirkywoman8969]

yup all for money.

[@ryeofoatmeal]

it's really unfair to judge someone is 'fat' when they have bigger thigh and chubby cheeks. they're in your genetics. no matter how much weight you loss, you're gonna have that fat on your face. that fat also will help you age better (appearance wise). poor xiumin that he still has to encounter this...

[@HeavenlyiceDream]

The boys in Superkind are actually really talented and sweet. ON the discord they interact with us, there are games we play with the members and we have teams against each other. It's definitely a fun and unique group concept. Saejin is almost non existent the majority of the time, despite being listed as the main vocal.

[@do_haegh6178]

wait does saejin come on on discord?

[@do_haegh6178]

I mean he is a literal AI isn't that where we should see him communicate??

[@andromedamessier3176]

He ain’t real!!!

[@TH1CCA]

​@lemonssssssss4 i could ask the mods for an event like that 😭

[@TH1CCA]

​@@do_haegh6178 tbh they call him an AI but in kpop that just means virtual idol 😭 he has people to voice him, sing for him, dance for him (im p sure) and then the company animates him!! he can't actually think for himself i yjink

[@BrandonshanesProductions]

Honestly this is one of the best and worst systems. Imagine artist arising naturally by let’s say being able to sing but then not being able to dance or having any stage presence. In K-pop all those are catered for but then again it’s not natural and all backed by a corporation designing an idol how they want

[@PhantomOfManyTopics]

Then do the American Adele way.

[@lindawang898]

I am glad you talked about the serious issues that plague Kpop such as the unrealistic beauty standards and the incredibly unhealthy lifestyles. Watching that woman lying down literally with an IV in her arm while crying and talking about needing to stay up for another 3 days after that was so heartbreaking @8:53. It's important to realize the glamourous lifestyles they portray even down to their own physical features have been manufactured.

[@abbey5899]

As a braindead metalhead, my heart still goes out to the kpop fans and stars for all the sketchy stuff that comes out about the industry. Maybe they'll ease up someday so y'all can have your stars be happy and healthy for a long time!

[@breebles5]

a fan of both genres, and can't even begin to agree more

[@i.shuuya3231]

NewJeans, as an idea, disgusts me. Since day 1 I've never been able to watch their videos or listen to their music. It all became more disturbing when the Cookie scandal happened or when it was revealed that an (alleged) p*do woman was working with them. Obviously no hate to the victims (the group members), but I can't even understand how is anybody comfortable supporting that. I always thought that cancelling someone or passionately call out bad behavior was a mere intelectual exercise due to the difference in opinions and ideologies. However, with this k-pop group, I learned that is possible to physically cringe at something you're against or deem as morally wrong. So, yeah. At this point it's just a bodily reaction towards these things inside the industry.

[@i.shuuya3231]

19:00 I know you're talking specifically about the South Korean music industry, but the idea of an "IA" (term wrongly used btw) musician has existed for more than a decade. I mean, do I have to mention Hatsune Miku? Vocaloid? I remember that even back in 2013 there were already full concerts with these characters. Japan mastered this concept and technology long ago, and South Korea is picking it up a bit late. Since a few years the Japanese music industry has been experimenting with full VR concerts, like the one with Perfume. The things they're currently experimenting with are INSANE, but they don't reach most of the Western public because Japan is a country that expects us to adapt to them, instead of the other way around (which also explains the success of k-pop in the west). Just as a side note, when you said that the IA member wasn't real, it's not that easy. If you get into reading about all the main currents in the philosophy of mind, it'll kinda open your eyes and rather see them as primitive life (we're talking about bacteria level of primitive). However, there's already some sort of computer generated life. I don't remember the name of the study, but it was about a different and newer version to the old "game of life". Whatever the beings we are creating inside computers, and in whatever piece of hardware they reside in, it should be thought as alive in some capacity, or at least spark the conversation. Of course it's not the same with AI generated idols since they're programmed to do certain things and cannot function without human intervention, but those are the building blocks for something that's already happening.

[@Blooming09]

I also can’t support new jeans as a group because they are merely being exploited

[@paintmeperfect]

ANother aspect that shocked me is that if an indol retires, he/she seem to be left with almost nothing. I remember a video on a girl who had to leave the group because she had some extra kilos and they mentioned she now works in a cosmetics shop or smth. AT least she was young and maybe can rebuild a life for herself, but I wonder what can one do when they reach their late 20s?

[@mxm7647]

They usually get some sort of education and can use that to get other jobs. Or they pass some courses to gain skills. Most just transition into acting, being KZbinrs, etc. Some could be vocal instructors, dance teachers, etc. When one really needs to work one will find a way to work, no matter where it is or what the job is.

[@mightymeatymech]

💀💀💀 I'm 28 and attempting college again... I have known people who rebuilt their lives at fifty, sixty, seventy.... Life is a lot longer than the first 30 years

[@paintmeperfect]

@@mightymeatymech I totally agree, it is not impossible, but it is not easy either. Wish you all the best with your plans!

[@paintmeperfect]

@@mxm7647 Thanks, these are some good points.

[@1991rendrawati]

agree with @MxM but... not all idol got same chance like that. especially when they came from smaller agencies. there's so many idols that fell from scene and works in unimaginable field like courier or if they're lucky they can have a coffee shop or office worker. I watched them several time in "I Can See Your Voice" show.

[@tj28308]

I love several Kpop groups, however I think deep down we all know that Kpop industry is mostly about looks. With Kpop groups, their talents, skills, and charm are often forced, instead of organically discovered. Companies train young kids to dance, sing, and act for years, while these trainees, and later, idols, probably are not the most talented dancers and singers in the first place, and not always the most passionate dan dedicated on performing on stage. They put pressure on their trainees and idols to undergo plastic surgeries and cosmetic procedures, and strict diet regime, even though the latter may leave them exhausted all the time. They are always sweet and polite, however in some interactions/performances, their personality can be.. well.. limited. So here we are, we have idols who look perfect, just like what we wanted, however they generally are lacking in other departments.

[@_nikoru]

of course kpop is mostly about looks, korea is all about looks

[@5arahbelle]

@@_nikoru there is a literally visual position like😅

[@roastedThighs]

This is exactly why I decide to not stan new groups anymore. I feel like I am encouraging those adult businessmen to exploit minors and their dream to be rich and famous. And sometimes I feel like these young trainees are so brainwash to get popular to the point that they will endure anything just to reach their dream. Its so scary that they get away with this kind of thing. And the fact that only a small percentage succeed and most of the time those trainees just waste their life for nothing. I do wish that south korea will make a law that the legal age for someone to become a trainee is 16-18 y.o. and the proper debut age is 20. And I doubt that Kpop industry is that "clean" like, looking at how competitive this industry, I bet some trainees experience doing "everything" just to get a spot to debut or an idol doing "everything" just to get an Ad deals, new investor or anything to make them famous. I hope someone will stand up for this issue.

[@1991rendrawati]

yes!. gosh, I knew about that from tumblr and reddit.. they really exploited young idols/actress/actors to do unimaginable thing. that was what Jang Ja Yeon tried to expose but sadly she passed away.

[@felmargego2534]

same. most of the groups i listen to are from 2nd or 3rd gen

[@wazakauyezulu9042]

"DON'T BE YOURSELF CHANGE WHO YOU ARE TO FIT IN" is interesting messaging 🤣

[@quirkywoman8969]

socitey in a nutshell.

[@elysium1173]

Not only is this industry bad for the idols but its bad for the fans as well. Imagine the person you look up to, your favourite idol who you think is the most beautiful human being on the planet calling themselves too fat while they would literally fit through a fucking drain pipe, like what will that do to your self-image? Kpop promotes insecure behaviour to the max and it annoys the living daylights out of me because there are a lot of kids who look up to these idols who will take their words for the truth and apply them to themselves. Also the amount of fanservice these idols are forced to do is awful, you can see how many of them feel very uncomfortable doing it. Boy and girl groups have always had images and persona's, even in the west, but kpop takes it to a whole new level and I feel like its only getting worse. Kpop images are so clean cut the smallest signs of humanity are already enough to cause a scandal (like when pictures come out of idols smoking or forgetting to bow to someone, or giving someone the finger ) and someone can lose their entire career just because they did drugs once or they're badmouthing another idol. Like HOW does that make sense??

[@rhuonaChanel]

Yeah that's one of my problem with the genre...it seems to lack personality & depth. The art in music & performing gets lost when artistes are too controlled.

[@juliawidmaier5334]

I remember when NCT Dream debuted and all the members were so young, with Jisung only being 14. It was definitely uncomfortable for me as an adult because part of the pressure being an idol is to be this idealistic, desirable, and perfect object of obsession for people, a product to make the company money, and people (who are adults) would be 100% projecting their sexual desires onto them and all of that felt wrong. Idk, I know child entertainers exist in so many fields but the potentials for abuse, for psychological trauma, and for loss of privacy are so real and makes me wish there were more legal protections for them from the company or the government.

[@shellybelly1071]

I was literally thinking about this before this was recommended to me. In my opinion, the Kpop industry is trying to move too fast in order to catch on to modern concepts. Instead of investing in their previous groups, they quickly go and recruit new trainees from much younger generations. I'm talking '08, '07 babies and above. I believe that one day the system will collapse completely as there will be too many groups to support financially. I also believe that due to the influx of idols, there will be an eventual saturation of individuals in the industry, so much so that Kpop may even die as a genre. Also, children being made to sign 'slave-contracts' and being forced into brutal regimes is almost insane to me. It seems that everyone is a carbon copy of each other and a product of their company. Some idols are even chasing to move into the US artist system as it provides a better overall pay. And conditions for living are ridiculous- up to 12 kids living in a two bedroomed flat, eating from the same plate and having less than 2mins a day to shower before a 14 hour rehearsal. What a life.

[@moawesome]

I remember how mentally unstable I was until I was 17 years old, even so, I still had to work on my mental health. Everything seems to influence the brain with a bigger impact if you're under the age of 17-18, it's insane that literal children are being exposed to entertainment industry first hand experience. All the issues related to eating disorders, obsession with looks, sexualizing idols, they creep me out, imagine how terrifying and lonely it can feel to idols themselves?

[@Corie3269]

Yes, hence I'm extremely worried to see minors debuting (e.g. New Jeans) too.

[@rawrgurl8134]

Just take a look at 4th Gen and see how many groups are debuting, it’s so so many idols being pushed out to in hopes of getting popular. But they are also very mistreated

[@dokessezeaka5159]

There's literally a webtoon called beyond virtual about ai idols and how they've taken over the jobs of real idols which has left many people struggle 💀

[@nerd26373]

This is a great analysis. The K-pop industry keeps evolving at a rapid rate, including beauty standards among idols. Seems like with time there’d be more toxic standards set in stone if this situation totally gets out of hand. Keep up the good work and God bless.

[@Yoongireve]

YO ITS THE ONE THATS ON THE YSF POSTS

[@SADIE_Maybe_SADISTIC]

@@Yoongireve ???

[@Yoongireve]

@@SADIE_Maybe_SADISTIC you wouldn’t get it lol

[@ebr7753]

exactly, look at kdramas from 20 years ago and you'll see how different the people looked

[@jordicarvajal2834]

K-pop has changed so much lately since BTS and BP broke into the US market in 2018 and 2019. I think since than, companies now want to turn their groups into the new BTS or BP. For example, Aespa is SM's version of BP and SuperM is SM's version of BTS. A lot of people say that Stray Kids could become the next BTS. Itzy is JYP's version of BP.

[@viktoriavadon2222]

Age isn't exactly a new problem, Taemin also debuted when he was 14. Gdragon and BI had been training since they were literal kids. There were groups like Tiny G, girls who debuted very young, but at least they had concepts fitting for their age. There's also JYP's Chinese boy group Boy Story, where you look at them and it's scary how young some of them still are. Probably this will need legal ruling just like the slave contracts did, drawing some lower limits on how young someone can be to sign a trainee contract and debut.

[@fromdusktilldusk2856]

I remember watching a fan meeting of a female idol group one day, and during the fans question one of them told one of the girl that she had fat arms (she was a skinny noodle), and the girl answered with a smile that she knew and was dieting and then thanked him... wtf

[@sparkleevanagy]

I guess you're talking about sulli from f(x). She died due to all this cyber bullying.. goes to show how disgusting and toxic this whole concept of beauty is

[@norati402]

I’m happy more people are raising awareness how toxic the kpop industry is. I once was a fan too but how people are treated there and how toxic and obsessive fans are over random famous people just throws me off so much. I cannot handle it anymore.

[@flordemaga8497]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@5555.Star.]

exactly this, but im still a fan because ive learned every fandoms mad weird.

[@angel127_]

idk why but as much as i love won young, whenever i think about how young she is and how much work she supposedly has had done, it makes me so sad..

[@terminatorhd889]

she's been super overworked ever since joining IVE, and she was still 17 during their debut. barely hit 18 just in august, and she's doing work like crazy. Fans praise her for being so popular and having many brand deals, and working a lot, but it's just not healthy

[@wendymartin6479]

There was a type of k-pop phenomenon in the 1980s in the US and UK called boy and girl bands. They had to be able to dance and sing, each member had a unique style and personality etc. They were not all pop, some were RnB but the gist was all the same - teens signed into lengthy contracts, foregoing school, performing for hours daily and nonstop tours. These bands included BoysIIMen, Backstreet Boys, NSync, Spice girls, Boyzone and dozens more. What happened was that the Backstreet Boys blew the lid off the exploitative contracts in which they received almost no money but the management were multimillionaires and almost close to billionaires, who now owned private jets and mansions. The worst was that the Backstreet Boys had performed for almost a decade, had several top hits and were penniless. (KZbin has videos on Lou Perlman the unscrupulous manager of both BackStreet Boys and NSync) The difference between the k-pop artists of today and the 'boyband era' of the past is that in the US and UK there is better regulation and some awareness of the exploitative practices. That being said, regardless of where in the world you are, some parents will do anything to live vicariously through their children's success and visibility, even if all they have in the end are fans and dancing videos. Somethings never really change, just the packaging.

[@1991rendrawati]

my kpop era is Gen 2. I was a blackjack and my sister who was an elementary school student is SONE. I remember the CEO bashed 2ne1 as ugly person and that took a toll at Park Bom's mental health and did plastic surgery several times. as for my sister, my mum was worried after read the dark side of kpop from local newspaper, one of them is SNSD's plastic surgeries... my sister became interest in diet since age 12/13, the impact is horrible. now she's 21 and started to love her thick body without extreme diet. I think the govt need more human regulations so they can make a great environment for kpop, not only for artists' or companies, but also their fans.

[@yessica5231]

I think the reason it's so nice and easy to get into kpop is precisely because everything is manufactured. Like it's literally like idols are living dolls because the audience/fans control a big portion of their public lives. I do like older gens, specifically 2-3, and you can see how they're allowed to be more themselves. Idk what I'm talking about but I've never felt a stronger parasocial relationship with any western celebrity so kpop is comforting for that reason, fake or not.

[@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma]

Lol STFU older idols have it worst . Snsd with black ocean because they interacted with bgs or yunho getting poisoned, on national TV remarks about their body we're made and people passed it as joke ( Specially done with female idols )now days it's less because new International fans are calling out this behavior ( even if it's Comming from their own idols )

[@oOPrettywinxOo]

@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma I think they're talking about nowadays. And they would be right because once you have a certain value to the company, because you reached a certain degree of fame, you have room to negotiate. SNSD, SHINee, TVXQ, 2PM, Big Bang etc etc have reached the point where they can't simply be replaced by another young and hip group & it would be the same. And the companies know that. Hence them having more freedom now than they ever did in the first few years (& some of them have openly talked about the differences of back then vs now, eg SHINee's Key has said in an interview that the first time they were asked for creative input on any of their releases was for their View comeback in 2015, which, incidentally, was their first release after they had negotiated a new contract). So yeah this isn't a competition on who had it worst. Surely we all know 2nd gen walked so everyone else could run. But fact of the matter is the more veteran you are the less produced you can afford to be in kpop

[@crowzet0]

Wtf this person is proud for being in parasocial relationship with an idols that doesn't know she's exist nahhh 💀

[@ReiAnikaAyanami]

​@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma why so aggressive? are you an older gen idol?

[@ksdtsubfil6840]

My gosh Edvasian is killing me with these poorly-aged cutaways. "I'm sure we'll all be fine in less than a month" 😭😭😭😭

[@johannamendez1328]

Thanks for bringing this up. I love kpop but for a while now I have been tired of people praising or choosing to ignore openly a lot of the issues this industry has. The minors, the diets, the lack of having an opinion, most of these people cannot even choose their own hair colors and the ones that have some freedom, most likely do so at the exchange of something detrimental to them. Even when you are "perfect" if an idol turns their face at the wrong moment countless scandals and theories are made up about them. Mental health is a joke in that environment and sadly we as the public keep things going as long as we continue demanding more of the content that is being produce. I feel sad when I see idols behaving in a cute way because most of them, like normal people, don't go around doing things like that. When I see them do "sexy concepts" I wonder how much do they agree to showing or moving their bodies in a certain way and the things to point out just goes on and on. At this point, the best we can hope for is that talking about it hopefully one day will lead to changing the issues.

[@quirkywoman8969]

those sexy concepts is how idols get insecure too.

[@juliawidmaier5334]

Man the whole not being able to express themselves freely is definitely disturbing for me because how much of their opinions they give get censored or coached to them so they don't upset people, what are they told to keep quiet about? Definitely always felt like they were restricted in so many areas of their lives.

[@johannamendez1328]

@@juliawidmaier5334 to be honest it seems that they don't even have to talk to get in trouble, there are some idols that simply looked in the wrong direction or looked "bored", or stuff like that and they are labeled as disrespectful, rude, etc. A smile better be on their faces at all times because otherwise entire fandoms can come to chase them. I understand people will talk regardless but if a lot of fans agree with a comment then depending on the content of said comment it can even affect their careers. It sucks but we also have to change as fans, not just the companies.

[@johannamendez1328]

@@quirkywoman8969 You are right, I am amazed at how often I end up finding out some of these very attractive people have confidence issues. I guess it just shows how much these companies would bring them down to keep them controlled and pushing them towards doing things not even they themselves agree with.

[@quirkywoman8969]

@@johannamendez1328 yes it's like to be an idol you gotta get out of your comfort zone whether you like it or not.

[@WystaerMacaron]

If a place shines brighter than anywhere else, it's shadows will be a lot darker, too. I think that saying's pretty accurate to the industry. Never been particularly interested in K-Pop, but I can't say I'm surprised that the talents are treated like objects to be molded from childhood. I can respect the talents' work, but definitely not their treatment. No one deserves this.

[@izzatfauzimustafa6535]

When you realise that men and women from Korean diaspora communities have more natural looks than many South Koreans who are born and living in South Korea, that's you notice just how big cosmetic reconstruction industry is in the country since early 2000s.

[@missmysterious13]

Did you hear that bang Chan from stray kids gave his meal vouchers to I think it was twice because they were on a diet and couldn't eat but wanted food? So sweet and cute but also terribly sad.

[@lipstickgamer6580]

People talk about how inspiring it is for 14-15 year olds to debut when it’s terrifying… it’s just willful ignorance at one point.

[@bogwife7942]

one of the most disturbing things to me is the idols being expected to stay up for three days straight. that would be considered a workers rights violation in any other industry. sleep is incredibly important to your health, and the fact that so many aspiring idols are expected to lose sleep in order to train is massively fucked up. sleep deprivation can lead to impaired judgment, stunted growth in children, and even heart issues later in life. sleep is so important being deprived of sleep is considered a form of torture

[@winkle1983]

JK from BTS said in an interview, since he was only around the members and training for his teenage years, he feels like his personality is a combination of all other 6 members… I also feel like one of the said that they feel, that in some ways, parts of their personality are stuck at the age they began as a trainee…you don’t get to just relax and engage with people your age about something other than your job…im amazed any of them turn out sorta normal 💜 Edited to add - Suga from BTS states in an interview that the Kpop industry as a whole need to change bc if you push and push people to summon creativity at a moments notice, stay up all night for music shows (and more), you eventually lose the passion bc that pace is not sustainable…my man speaks the truth!

[@chair508]

Bro it’s scary I’m taking some renaissance art history classes and it has made me realize in a few hundred years, there will be K-pop art history classes 😭😭

[@KelineChannel]

[@Boss_etc853]

“A small face is considered pretty because it makes you look like a CHILD and thus younger”… is such a weird weird concept💀 like wtf as a grown adult why do you want to look like a child? To attract who??

[@quirkywoman8969]

idk ask belle delephine.

[@sanabanana83]

Neoteny is the term to describe child-like features on adults. It's not just an asian concept, but a western one too. Women are more neotenous than men.

[@Varzio]

As usual, great content! I don't think I could add anything that other comments haven't said already. The tvxq clip...their whole story is wild. I gotta say while the split/leaving SM/getting out of their contracts may have been worth it to them in the long run (considering that they all managed to do pretty well for themselves) it's still insane how salty SM was. Getting JYJ blacklisted from music shows etc? *Insane* "So you dare leave the company? Well, good luck keeping your career going if we basically ban you from appearing on any relevant music programs!"

[@manganime1893]

For real, I was a fan of them back the and it was super painful seeing all that unfold, at least it made me realize how the industry truly is. It was awful but like you said they are doing well now and I'm glad they got out when they did

[@victorbourget7689]

I recently had a full blown seizure after a few weeks weeks of not sleeping more than maybe 4 hours a night, I can't imagine the physical and mental toll this much stress puts on idols after years of this.

[@moun-moun7500]

When I first got into BTS in 2017, I was more than a casual listener than passionate fan and remember how I always got their names mixed up or how familiar they seemed to each other. I became army around 2020 and the more I got into the fandom and Kpop in general the more I got t for their wellbeing among other things. Being famous isn't easy nor all rainbow and sunshine, is ridiculous the things BTS and so many other Kpop idols has to go through and how some fans thinks is ok to stalk them be obsessed, disclose and share private info about them or even think they kind of own them. They're humans they have the right to live their life the way they want to without us "Fans" demanding every little update about their whereabouts. Is none of our business where they travel to who they're with and oh god the toxic "ship-culture" need to be canceled. I could go on....

[@5555.Star.]

exactly this! I really enjoy BTS' music because they have no issue calling this type of stuff out. Like in pied piper and fake love, even in their solo songs. these companies are so focused on making the "next bts" or a group that feels like "fresh air" not knowing that one of the biggest reasons they're liked is because they HAVE this freedom and sense of "realness." Yes BTS still *has* to make content and such, but it feels more of a want than a must.

[@jordicarvajal2834]

Same here. I got into BTS in 2019 and they were first K-pop group I got ino. K-pop has changed so much lately over the past several years. So many companies are pushing their groups into the US market. It's no longer mainly Japan and Southeast Asia like it was back than. But I think since BTS and BP broke into the western markets in 2018 and 2019, K-pop has started to lose it's identity.

[@kings4300]

Some fan communities are crazy. especially those obsessed with specific members, I've read that there are fans willing to bribe bh employees to get their personal info and thus access to them (like being able to buy a seat on the same plane or know when they're leaving work so they can stalk them). some fans were willing to buy Jimin's (?) sweaty stage outfit for 50k... it's scary to think about that

[@jordicarvajal2834]

@@kings4300 Companies are fueling this is so called BF/GF fantasy with fans making them so delusional and toxic. A normal K-pop fan will buy one album while a delusional fan will buy an entire box of albums. Companies uses these dirty tricks to boast up their profits. This benefits the companies but it hurts idols mentally and socially. Idols literally cannot be humans because of extremely toxic delusional fandoms. Fandoms always expect their favorite idols to have a certain image 24/7 and always be available to them all of the time. In the K-pop industry, you are told by your company what kind of image or person you are going to be. The K-pop industry has a lot of dark sides that made the industry what it is right now. It's about control and greed.

[@professorbutters]

Believe it or not, I first learned about this system in a video game called Dress Up Time Princess, which has a story called Si-Woo’s Sight. The supernatural side of it looks straight out of K-Drama (especially Goblin), but the setting is the K-Pop training system, and it’s pretty brutal.

[@StellaMaria-hw6rk]

OMG SAME THE STORY IS SO WELL MADE :(

[@KilljoyNisi]

I am relatively new to this whole K-Pop thing. I fell in love with Stray Kids, went through the whole process of learning EVERYTHING there is to learn about the members. And… I kinda reached a point - excuse me, I am reaching it over and over again - where I ask myself if this is something I *should* support. As some others pointed out: Bang Chan, the leader of SKZ, is a perfectly sad example of what these years as a trainee does to them. I am glad he talkes about and he seems to try and shield his members from experiencing same or even similar shit. I remember in a recent video, he talked how he gave his… food card or something (?) to Twice, so they could eat. *Because they weren’t allowed to eat.* I was so close to tearing up when I heard this. Or when I hear Chan talking about how he paralyzed himself during a choreography. Said it was pretty scary but they „gave him some shots“ and he did the performance he had to. I want to cry for this man and what he had to go through. You can still see the mental scars the years of training left in him. I‘ve never seen a man this broken doing what he does. And he is not only doing this for himself. I ask myself all the time how he treats the members. They talked about how Chan was… really strict in the beginning. I don’t want to replicate what I‘ve heard and read, but Chan didn’t seem like the good friend he is now. He seemed like one of the producers. And I guess that’s why they give him quite the liberty. He chose his own members, they’re writing and producing their own music. From the beginning that’s something I admired, but what if it’s just possible for them, as long Chan is „the perfect producer/idol keeping his group in check“? I worry about him. About them. A lot.

[@helplessheroine2641]

The things you learn about members aren't even true in a lot of cases. Everything from height and weight to hobbies and favorite color may be what the label assigned them rather than the truth. You learn about the stage persona, not the person behind it.

[@mercykachigunda9418]

i wish they would let him go to Australia often to visit his family. he and felix.

[@uhmmmhuh5064]

@@helplessheroine2641 "you learn about the stage persona not the person behind it" oh my god!! these words bruh true asf gee whiz 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@EleiyaUmei]

Me too!

[@luancosta199]

Seeing stays glorify this and pretend they're completely in control of their schedule bc they're a "self produced group" is so infuriating to me. I'm sorry u think that a giant group from one of the biggest entertainment companies in the country wouldn't be under a tight schedule, constant pressure and overworked to the goddamn bone? I see this with twice too. Seeing the members had to fight tooth and nail to change their CURFEW when they're in their 20's. Having absolutely insane schedules and fans completely ignoring all of it bc "they like working". it drives me up the wall

[@Thatscrazy..]

the fried chicken ads LMAOOOOO😭

[@quirkywoman8969]

the fact that idols are forced to preform or dance even if they broke/sprained a body limb is also fucked up.

[@victrola2007]

One of reasons I love AKMU. They refused plastic surgery and picked the agency that offered more autonomy for their sound.

[@caramel_frappe]

Can you imagine practicing and talking to someone who isn't even there?! A virtual MAN you are speaking with! He ain't there! He gets added after! Are you talking to the VA? Like, imagine having to practice and make you don't accidentally step in the spot the Virtual Man is, Evry. SINGLE. TIME. without fail.

[@caramel_frappe]

How much the VA gets for playing this guy?

[@svlanifructis7114]

The saddest thing about all of this is that pop fans have never been loyal to the musicians. Not even in Kpop but in general. These kids will break their back and destroy themselves emotionally and physically only for your average kpop/pop fan to forget about them in 2 years when a younger, hotter version pops up. It honestly breaks my heart and I do hope the standards change overtime.

[@sunnysocoolio]

I wanna point out that although Xiumin went through a harmful diet bc of social pressure, he has since been a big advocate to fans for finding healthier and more balanced means of body maintenance! He's made it clear that starving is unsustainable bc you'll eventually need to eat more food for energy and you gain the wait back, he's made it clear to fans that there are better ways, like building muscles, that'll help reach body goals! I think this is a case of someone learning from the harmful pressure that they were under (he used to get bullied by netizens a lot) and actively trying to show that this is harmful. And he acts on it, he hasn't yoyoed and he's stayed away from starvation diets since then

[@SchlichteToven]

7:53 - are you sure that's the reason? I bet some of it is just to see who's the most docile, who will do what they're told even if it's plastic surgery or eating once a week. They probably don't want someone who will demand pay for overtime or realize they're still in debt despite being major superstars.

[@TheSeriousAnalysist]

Kpop industry is so toxic and the worst thing is that it's generalized and seen as "cool" by people is the worst...

[@Unhappytimeaper]

I always think back to the story of TRCNG when people glamorize the industry, and I’m saying this as someone who grew up on kpop literally, listening to it when I was 8 and now 22. The group lived a a 2 room apartment forcing some of the members to live in a crawl-space like attic to even make it work. It was extremely worn down, suffering from extremely damage to the property and the company refused to pay for any of the living costs causing the electricity and water to be shut off despite taking money from the members to pay for such things. Most of them became extremely ill from the living conditions, and on top of everything were forced to cover their own medical bills when they eventually had to go to the hospital from getting so sick. Staff would come in and even break their stuff like appliances & lights to get more money out of them for repairs, and when they eventually had to stay in sauna’s for basic necessities like having access to the bathroom or water got scolded. Even worse, when they tried to get things like food or coffee from convenience stores the staff would shame these literally teen for not bringing things for them. It only gets worse as certain members came forward with abuse- prior to this the company has already suffered these exact lawsuit claims from their two other former groups. The youngest member was 16, all of them I think no older than 17 and suffered so much all for the chance to be idols. In the end they basically were scammed of 1,200,000 USD the company only ever expected to give them 1% each of the profits for 9 years [although they disbanded far before that contract was set to be fulfilled]. The stories around TS Entertainment are truly haunting and I know this is a level of extreme most groups won’t ever face but it’s also a commonality. Idols truly are expected to sacrifice so much for a thread of a chance to make any profit or to ever get the one in a million chance to make it from those small dorms. It’s a sacrifice of time, and a life given the lack of ability to hang out with friends or even have access to a phone outside of work purposes and even the chance to develop a stable education leaving most idols lost on what to do post contract. The stories of the big groups are not reality of industry and everything is staged from what they want you to see. Like I said, I still like kpop to some degree- i do say any of this to say everything about it is terrible or TS-like stories are the same for every group but in the end it’s nothing but a job with a rose tinted glass often covering the life we hear and see.

[@EfeFlet]

I remember BigBang talking about their early years and I was baffled because almost everything they described is literally illegal in my country. They mentioned sharing a chocolate cookie and cutting it into pieces and also instead of just eating it they'd let it melt in their tonges. Just the fact that they had to do that while in their teens is absolutely horrifying to me. I like their music and the fact that they have never acted like the kpop industry was nice to them, they have always been very vocal about it.

[@Angelbean777]

Please hear me out before you get upset: I’m Asian and I was starting to think so many kpop idols look the same.. like cut and paste copies:( it’s kind of creepy tbh. It makes me sad such beautiful and natural features are re-shaped and broken to fit a certain standard. On top of it, so many look so sickly and ghostly.😞

[@namiko282]

I don’t know what’s worse: that so many trainees and idols have to manage such demanding schedules while trying to get a basic education or the ones that drop out and completely risk it all in such a cutthroat industry.

[@madamlt5758]

The amount of pressure these KIDS are under must be unreal. If they don’t do well you have to pay everything back. Yikes.

[@KelineChannel]

[@dekoppyon]

Please remember that there IS a real person behind Saejin (body tracking, voice, etc), he's just not showing his face...

[@sakshimeghwa]

One direction agressive shoulder dance made me laugh so loud 😂

[@Jordan-bx2re]

Oh boy I miss them so much!

[@Tanjura]

Thank you for talking about this important issue. I was not quite aware of it before. I'm much more into K-Hip Hop than the "classic K-Pop scene", meaning I mostly keep up with artists like Epik High, Jay Park, the people from AOMG and H1GHR Music. And even tough they also work hard and pay attention to their looks, it still seems entirely different from what you've been talking about in this video. They appear to still have their freedom and own personality. It's almost like two different music scenes exist in Korea.

[@oo8962]

The thing that surprise me when I first got into khh is how those rappers just casually throw F bomb and middle fingers everywhere. You'll be dead if you're a kpop idol doing that. I think more company CEO should be more like Jay Park. He's doing really good with the company probably because he's an ex idol himself and doesn't want to make people experience the same thing as him. I just love how H1GHR music is like a group of friends having fun with Jay as the big brother figure. Khh rappers definitely still look good but they had their own version of good looking. Unlike the highly manufactured kpop idols.

[@mgy2877]

I love seeing more and more people being open to talking about harsh realities of kpop like this. After everything I went through with TRCNG and BAP even now as a ForX (fan of group called OMEGAX) it’s been really hard for me not to see so many downsides of kpop in general if I’m honest. In 2017 when I first heard of kpop, it definitely put a unrealistic image of my head of who I’m supposed to be based on the people I look up to. Although I think about it differently now, we really really need to change the system as a whole. As I said before I know it’s not easy, and because kpop is profitable it won’t change soon. But it SHOULD. Idols are humans. KIDS. We look to them for support but sometimes forget their literally the same age as us and have so much trauma then we could imagine.

[@butterflymoon1]

Wow! Your video articulated the dark side of Kpop perfectly. New subscriber here! I used to be a pretty big fan of Kpop (I still enjoy it, but it's changed a lot) before it became super popular in the west, but even then, I remember thinking there was another side to all the 'perfection'. However, to know that they go through this and then even have their "fans" attacking them--it's heartbreaking... Don't get me started on the managers and how they treat them.

[@KaylaNoelle1]

Sir, you have 666k subscribers on Halloween. I think that means you win. And oh man, I grew up on Girl's Generation, Orange Caramel, U-Kiss, and The Wonder Girls so now that it's 4th gen I feel so old. I like New Jeans and IVE but it just seems like K-pop as an industry is getting worse like they have a 13-year-old singing about her "cookie" in a suggestive way???? EW. Then Poor Wonyoung's ED is out of control and it seems like her company is encouraging it. It's gone totally off the rails!

[@Yoongireve]

Happy Halloween yall, I’m literally seeing this while trick or treating 💀

[@eb4409]

have fun 🙏

[@Yoongireve]

@@eb4409 thanks bestie

[@hatehumans9206]

Happy Halloween, btw people don't celebrate Halloween here so enjoy..

[@civivva4501]

I am currently in Thailand and the amount of plastic surgery advertising is INSANE. Dr this or Dr That are advertising on billboards, videos on the BTS sky train. There was a queue for a cosmetic clinic OPENING. The promotions. The double Eyelid surgery and skin lightening. As I went past on the back of a motorbike taxi I actually wondered 'Should I get plastic surgery?'

[@durratulaishah3703]

I wonder how bad existential crisis these idols will once they'll reach 25+ yeras old....😅

[@julecaesara482]

okay I see why people dislike the way Kpop idols are "made" but how is this different from ballet? or some olympic-level sports? I dunno. Circus-artists?

[@monicoreheart]

EXACTLY!!!

[@be_me]

The AI member (is it AI or not rather AR?) seems like a blend of an actual human and 3D-modelling to me. The "quality" of his movement and how realistic his skin looks changes a lot. That makes me think that sometimes he is fully animated but sometimes it's actually the body of a real person, where it's mostly just the face that animated, like with a lot of the fake Instagram influencers. And then there's the voice of course. Having an actual person there as a stand-in would also make it much easier for the other members to interact with him. Otherwise it would be difficult to keep their eyes always at the same exact spot when talking to him. Unless they use like a green screen dummy with a dot on it or something, as they do in movies.

[@NatLaS]

Yeah, I was wondering if they might be using someone with a MoCap suit during the dancing scenes and such, or if the person who voices him actually hangs around the group. In any case, I hope the animators are being paid good money cause that’s super good work

[@B1tchface22]

Been into kpop since high school. The more I got into it also meant learning about the industry. I ended taking a break from it in 2014 after the Ladies Code car accident. Listening to songs I used to enjoy just made me upset, knowing all the sadness and pain that went into it. I started to paying attention again after Jonghyun's (SHINee) suicide broke the news and have been back into it ever since, but the joy of it before learning about the dark underbelly is gone. You covered so much so well for just a 20 minute video.

[@haltertopbabe]

you’re always coming thru with this video essays

[@sprigatoni]

Omg how u mentioned how Xiumin noticed how ppl treated him different after losing weight. I've felt that before too I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I was pudgy my whole childhood. As a preteen I started getting very skinny... people treated me differently... I got more attention and ppl wanting to be my friend more than ever before. It was overwhelming and made me uncomfortable so I gained the weight back and I haven't been skinny since.. ik it sounds like a good thing that people liked me more but I didn't like it. It felt like people only liked me because I was skinny, it felt fake and like no one liked me for me. Also it just all felt so sudden and I was like 13, I didn't want as much attention as I was getting. I hated how people would make comments abt how "good" I looked then.. as if I was ugly before... and I did not feel good emotionally. Sorry for venting in a comment section I just never heard anyone else mention how ppl treat u different after losing weight. That rlly connected w/ me. Everyone always talks abt the positives abt losing weight and not very much how it might feel emotionally after u lose weight.

[@mrandom4765]

As much as i stan my groups... kpop is getting way too terrifying to the point where i question if its even ethical to continue to stan

[@eb4409]

I'm sorry but the aespa roblox concert has me in tears, they're so stiff 😭💀

[@mythicmistress]

Thank you for creating a video like this. 💜 It's informative & to the point enough for people to understand. I am a fan of Stray Kids & I genuinely feel very empathetic towards the boys & their struggles with things such as identity, self-love, image & social pressures growing up. I care very much for them as people & I always choose to look past the shine on the outside by seeking to understand them more deeply as individuals. We can't fix all problems; Even if we wish we could. Yet still. We can try to be there for them the best we can. Remind them it's beautiful to embrace who they are. I think that coming together as fans & being a more loving & understanding support system for the artists we adore can be a beautiful thing in its own way. They should feel loved for so much more than meeting any harsh expectations placed onto them. I only hope that they themselves can see how wonderful they are in their own eyes too. One day. I truly wish for that.

[@dreavmin497]

I love k-pop mostly for the fun music and fashion. Yes trainee system can be incredibly harsh and tough, but I wonder if young athletes sorta go through the same thing. With the amount of practice before their games or to even be in the team. Though the added pressure of dieting in k-pop is literally sick

[@mimiandreas8331]

This was enlightening and kinda depressing at the same time. It's nice to be famous and wealthy but at what cost.

[@quirkywoman8969]

it's like that wario meme i've won but at what cost.

[@user-pn6rd6fv9w]

I’d rather have that kind of money than struggle right now

[@CrimsonDawn-ou4og]

I find myself wondering when you upload now despite being a subscriber for barely a month. Keep doing what you're doing❤

[@ally6763]

i think you addressed these topics really well and I do agree with the points you brought up. Hope to see more of such insights on kpop idols to bring awareness about the harsh treatment some idols have to face because it is truly heart-breaking. Perhaps you could try and compare female and male idol groups as I think that is an interesting topic you can touch on as I have heard that they can be treated by companies and fans very differently sometimes!!!

[@slinkywhippet]

What about *B.A.P vs TSEnt* fighting back against slave contracts. They lost so much by doing this (it was never the same after the long enforced break at the height of their fame) , but we're SO proud of them 💚💚💚💚💚💚

[@shahirashamshulanuar3511]

Yup true! They were so brave to against mistreatment even though it costs them a lot.

[@mistyblue2917]

Lol that anime umbrella beat-down 💀