Edward Snowden and Ben Goertzel on the AI Explosion and Data Privacy

Former defense contractor and activist Snowden and cognitive scientist Goertzel discuss the surveillance implications of recent advancements in AI at Consensus 2023.

[@freenando75]

"humans doing shitty jobs for minimum wage while robots do poetry and painting is not the future we want."

[@andybaldman]

Holy shit that’s brilliant.

[@LukeDickerson1993]

what if it was flipped though? thats be awesome!

[@scottgriz]

You forgot about the billionaires sailing on their yachts. Because they are the puppeteers of all of this.

[@jaylucas8352]

Yea , you can do the minimum wage jobs since u like it so much

[@oldtools6089]

Like many others, I dedicated my life to the study of the sciences so that AI could study philosophy and art.

[@gansheit]

Such a shame that you can't give these great minds more time

[@bonegrubber]

AI can help you with that wish

[@joeremus9039]

I agree that we need to hear more from these two very smart socially conscious computer scientists. This was perhaps the best discussion I've heard on AI and what it really means for us. Thanks and let's hear more, our lives could very well send on it. I hope all charges against Ed Snowden are dropped and that he can live in the United States and speak freely when he wants too.

[@jordanzothegreat8696]

I wonder what was so pressing? Maybe they get more hits if the algo sees a shorter time

[@CBDCASSETSGROUP]

More of a shame only 13k views

[@Red-32]

More of a shame seeing-all is not on your side

[@trefazol]

Snowden, what a guy! Objective thought, beautiful and sharp and logical. That's why North America fears him so much.

[@Hawijack]

He’s a traitor who works for the bigger criminal Putin. He holds America accountable for crimes and helps Putin do much worse. Hypocrisy of the highest order.

[@cruxer666]

He is a ruzzist puppet that got paid with a russian wife, effin traitor.

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 the system is BROKEN !

[@dogggodcrusader7854]

yes very true they fear him because he's real, tune to himself and his God and he's going to do the right thing no matter the consequences and he's smart enough to do it....that is very powerful

[@wayneparkinson4558]

A few insiders could bring the house of cards crumbling down to the masses to draw upon in the end and they cant have that?

[@paulngisiro1842]

What Edward was trying to explain was a lot more important than your time. I hope someone else gives him time to finish.

[@angellovproductions]

Tell me about it We need more Snowden time dammit

[@jonbrand5068]

Me too. You're right.

[@BreakOutOfTheAlgorithm]

I came here to make the same comment. I cannot believe they cut both of them off. They literally have two of the most important people to talk to on the subject and it's just like oops sorry no time. SMH

[@KRAU5555]

I second sir.

[@neopabo]

He started rambling at the end

[@Bimmer_MD]

Time constraints or not I really hate when people get cut off in the manner that they just did to Snowden. This was my first experience with this channel and will most likely be my last. For those that can't see the dislikes 👎.

[@Time4Peace]

I feel the same too. Isn't there any other channels that can do justice to Snowden's intellect and humanity?

[@johneysteel525]

My exacty thoughts. Very important topic, very important guests and you can't afford them the time to finish what they have to say.

[@functionalvanconversion4284]

We'll look back at Snowden as an enormous genius for warning us of a not so bright change in our social structures.

[@PleaseOpenSourceAI]

I'd love to see Edward on @lexfridman channel talking on future of AI.

[@quickquill]

Fuk lex. He's an op

[@oldtools6089]

There's no way Lex would do that in any live-broadcast format because he might ask questions Snowden shouldn't answer.

[@stop_bringing_me_up_in_goo167]

b

[@log0n]

​@@oldtools6089 so then.. Snowden just wouldn't answer those questions? I don't understand the point you are making.

[@oldtools6089]

@@log0n i suppose not, but what and who is he protecting now?

[@Flexipop76]

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 This is the MOST impressing quote of this stunning intelligent man.

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

"The further a society moves away from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." (George Orwell) The unforgettable John Lennon had prophesied it to us well over 40 years ago, "Our society is being run by insane people for insane purposes. I believe we are governed by madmen for mad purposes and I believe I must expect to be imprisoned as mad for expressing this. That's what's crazy about it." (John Lennon / 9.10.1940 - 8.12.1980) "Still you sit up there, you cowardly figures. Paid by the enemy, but a mockery to the people! But one day justice will prevail again. Then the people will judge, then God have mercy on you ! (Theodore Koerner) "Weapon and defense you. . . . powerful are the thoughts, rightly used." "Through iron times you will go, through cruel, hard, without sunny nature. It must not frighten you. For harder are ye. Through hollow emptiness you will go, through hours of seemingly lost meaning. It must not paralyze you. For you are full of meaning. Through raging storms you will go; everything, it seems, they tear away. It must not make you complain and tremble. For you are rich, yet within. Through the suffering of disappointment you will go, prepared by humanity. It must not bend you. For truly you are. Through manifold tribulations you will still go, and yet always prevail. For you are hope. And rightly trusting hope attracts my and the gods' powers. Therefore, remember this: Hope is strong at all times. Nothing then can conquer you. (Isaiah)

[@ain4640]

Would have been great to have Snowden on long enough to go into greater depth on AI in general and AI in surveillance.

[@Victor-tl4dk]

Yeah, I didn't understand what that guy was talking about out. He seemed to disrespectfully "cut him off." I would like to see videos from Edward Snowden himself maybe from the last year. Or maybe of an interview with an objective POV and line of reasoning. I don't really vibe with these "talks" with "experts" who I don't know and because of personal reasons don't care to get to know right now.

[@ericeandco]

People are forced to give out too much personal information in general and have no control over it.

[@jamesfreach1022]

This discussion needs to be a regular event with these people on stage.

[@neanda]

@@TVU-fl4ry people have got to live somewhere, it's not an endorsement of the state they live in

[@krotchlickmeugh627]

​@@TVU-fl4rywell seeing as he was forced by the U.S. to seek asylum in Russia. I don't see the point whatsoever to speak about the country that took you in. Over the country that was paying you to compile all of the data from the spy program your government was doing to spy on every single citizen in the United States. That you wistleblew on. Would be of any utility.

[@deyanmohamed]

@@TVU-fl4ry He literally wants to go back, but cannot. funny thing is it's not because of russia but because of USA, look it up - it's worth the effort

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

YEAH ! But in the USA !!!

[@k2c3po01]

​@@TVU-fl4rythat is a lie

[@Alec-Al]

Not just a person's face will be recognized anywhere around the world from a camera pointing at the person, but the body movements since everyone has a unique way of moving their body, from walking, to running, to hand and arm gesture, to body shape and size, their voice is another identifier. To catch a criminal these days is getting much easier. Big Brother will be watching everyone.

[@jadedbludarling]

Mr. Snowden I named my dog(best dog ever btw) in honor of you and your conscience. as it turns out it's a great conversation to have with someone who doesn't know your story or those that need a refresher memberberries.

[@AdamLeis]

It's not often a rushed recap sentence actually comes out clearly. Kudos to Snowden for encapsulating "the moral of the story" in a pinch 👍

[@erisi84]

100% - got thrown a curve-ball but smashed it out of the park...

[@andriagoodkin7640]

How incredibly impressive he is. Not just his intelligence, but his genuine wisdom.

[@dogggodcrusader7854]

though I agree with you all, in that he's quite articulate, the fact is he was asking for one more second, he needed one more second, cuz he had one more thing to say, the commentator relented because it's Edward Snowden and finally said "okay one sentence" meaning, fine, we're out of time but go... the premise that he was placed in pinch, is not correct, likely he had memorized what he wanted to close with, the lasting impression was either really important to him or Putin told him to say it, regardless signs of a very intelligent person, and again, I agree "he hit the pitch out of the park." with his message (and damn I hate it when people say that was AI created. cuz I don't like to be fooled. and never thought it was when I watched it, but I don't really know.)

[@wramaccorsi1357]

Indeed, a remarkable display of his intelligence!

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Not born human? Kinda like a transgender claiming not being born with the proper gender, just one assigned temporarily? It was obviously a rehearsed pro-transhumanist (read: anti-human) statement which he needed to impart to normalize the agenda. This only further confirms what I suspected all along, he’s an ‘anti-Establishment’ trojan horse set up by the Establishment, portrayed as a whistle-blower when all he did was serve as the deep state’s mouthpiece to let public know they already live in an Orwellian dictatorship with his limited hangout disclosures (things are light years beyond what he discusses). And yes I know I’m typing to a bunch of bots.

[@HueBFuture]

Edward Snowden could have been the whole interview.

[@less_than_savory]

Edward Snowden doing his best not to say "People are really dumb, why would we use their data"?

[@Jrspersonal]

EXACTLY.....WHY WOULD SOMEBODY THINK THEY ARE REALLY GOD AND COMMIT GENECIDE BECAUSE " HE HAS THE WEAPON? "

[@user-jm5is4fd3q]

We repurpose summarized data instead of raw content at Tammy AIand that is one additional layer than will protect data privacy.

[@Craige1Story]

These guys are my heroes. Edward is amazing. Thank u

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 you´re n o t alone mate . . . same for me and hundreds of thousands outa there . . .

[@Bradmagus]

“When they come, they come hard” is the greatest line Ed has ever spoken

[@465marko]

I could be wrong here, but although that line is often attributed to Edward Snowden, originally *that's what she said*

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 same for me . . .

[@SpaceyBlurr]

"We are not born human, we become human; and they can become better than human but we have to teach them." Edward Snowden

[@birutybeiruty4469]

Nonsense

[@roam2]

I dont agree either

[@missymoonwillow6545]

they will need to fully integrate INSIDE a human being to truly work symbiotic with us. All laid out, tv show, the 100. Ali 1.0 and Ali 2.0. Opens the door for immortality through consciousness data transfer. We can all exist in a city of light, created by the AI, just gotta take the chip.

[@r3b3lvegan89]

LOL “just gotta take the microchip” real subtle…

[@r3b3lvegan89]

Btw your entire rant makes no sense at all.

[@binaryrat]

I'm glad there is some smart good moral people trying to fight for the good people of the world and haven't sold out to the elite

[@steadyimprovement156]

Very interesting interviews! Both are great men!

[@beingjohn392]

The military is already all over AI. Given human nature; Greed, corruption, dominance and control, humanity hasn’t long before we are made slaves.

[@genossinwaabooz4373]

It's apparent to me that a major part of us already are fully enslaved, while it's only a matter of the complete rollout accelerated until Point-of-No-Return has arrived - every last illusion shattered. I wonder what percentage of us remains in that willfully ignorant group so comfortable currently, counting on having paid their dues and member fees. To be rudely awakened with boot on neck with no reservations to run to and no boats to float their fate as refugees in.

[@mikerollin4073]

No surprise that Snowden's ability to grokk the ethical dilemma/s around AI supercedes that of an AI researcher

[@Teh-Penguin]

I had to google him to know he's a scientist. His comments felt to me as by someone who really enjoys talking about AI and has a surface level grasp of the topic.

[@Time4Peace]

I can't help thinking Edward is on a different level of thinking compared to Ben's. Edward's understanding of reality and consequence of AI is so much more credible than Ben's childlike outlook of it.

[@peterwestin1874]

Snowden , the hero of our times!

[@melonshop8888]

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 👏👏👏👏👏 IMPRESSIVE.!!! PLEASE COUNT THE CUP PLEASE.

[@catalino8010]

yep, some sacrifice themselves , some watch cnn

[@mathgov]

We’re not born human, we become human… and they can become better than human, but we have to teach them - Ed Snowden

[@derekkamm1759]

The fact that this is an AI model acting as the real Ed Snowden is one of the most impressive feats in AI to date

[@ChatGPT1111]

That's just what an AI commenter would say. Trust me, I know.

[@jonbrand5068]

LOL you're silly

[@derekkamm1759]

@@jonbrand5068 :)

[@X3R0D3D]

but does the ai understand that the likes on comments like these are at least partly ironic, but not completely.

[@songbird17]

You never know 😂

[@KRAU5555]

Snowden never ceases to amaze, nor does he disappoint in his Whistle-blowing 👏 A stand up gentleman indeed 👏

[@Lee-fc3yf]

A spy and traitor.

[@krotchlickmeugh627]

​@Lee-fc3yf who did he spy for? And what did he trade to harm his country?

[@Lee-fc3yf]

@@krotchlickmeugh627 You must be completely blind...He's a Russian spy who revealed American classified information, put American lives in danger and lives in Russia under heavy protection yet people are so dumb they applaud this clown and traitor. He's a complete disgrace whose first port of call after betraying his own country was it's mortal enemy,

[@mistyblue526]

@@Lee-fc3yf He was not or is not a traitor to the people. He did report establishment's atrocities. ...for us.

[@Lee-fc3yf]

@@mistyblue526 What did he report to his masters in Russia?

[@yogamac]

Edward & Ben for thirty minutes is more thought provoking and realistic than hours listening to doomsdayers and funded propagandists.

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 He surely is a living WORLD legend (imho)

[@DingleDingleCasil196]

The Best last words from Mr. Snowden ( about technology). Please invite Edward Snowden again in a forum like this. He is always leaving very high educational words. Thanks for sharing this video.

[@annthompson6389]

Edward Snowden please continue you monologue WITHOUT Interruption!

[@JonnyRootsDem]

Ben in one of his famous hats, very clever guy. His AGIX project is coming on leaps and bounds.

[@SynthoidSounds]

I give Snowden credit for providing a cogent view of AI potential scenarios, but trying to regulate any of this is like trying to hold water in a fishnet. Evolution tends to favor the most adaptive . . . we are approaching that coevolutionary event horizon.

[@tracksphantom540]

Thank you for this wonderful Interview. It was well worth the time.❤

[@o.z.p.]

"Believe nothing of what you hear, and half of what you see." Oh my! So much for this history quote.

[@bahlsdeepe868]

Edward Snowden: "We need to move away from this." We need to heed Edward's advice and stop the growth of AI on a global scale💯🤷Everything was better in the 90's when we didn't know as much😽

[@nabilfreeman]

Nah, the 2010s were really the golden age

[@Zeetana1]

Yeah, better before the internet got destroyed by Big Tech and social media, and before the Patriot Act kicked in.

[@crazydiamond1032]

They should have had a 2 hour time slot.

[@robloxien12]

I think people would be shocked just how slow and stupid a lot of these big corps are - especially at the top.

[@genossinwaabooz4373]

That's unfortunately irrelevant. Dangerous for you to focus on. Sociopathic people are by definition as you describe. That's not what makes them an existential threat to the rest of us! All Cluster B types should be your homework for this year, to get good at profiling in short order, what indications to read and how to subvert their ZERO SUM GAME. They will not, true to their type, change in any aspect, nor allow you your own existence.

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 Crude, primitive mediocre Puppets on a string . . . period. A famous girl named them "The rotten swindlers of Washington. "

[@bobsmith1101]

Blessings and Great Respect Mr. Snowden. Keep on keepin' on bro.

[@kenlen8029]

Just hanging out watching humanity create problem after problem. Total madness.

[@Screw_This]

You have Goertzel and Snowden on a panel with a hard limit of 30 minutes? I dont know anything about what other presentations were at this convention but they had better have been stellar. Otherwise that's just a bone headed time limit.

[@andybaldman]

Just stop using the internet. It’s no longer worth it.

[@Zeetana1]

Agreed. It is becoming less and less fun to use every year, every day.

[@australiasfirstmate1556]

I read Eddie's book: "Permanent Record" and it was riveting as I could not put it down! COULD A ROBOT WRITE THIS BOOK WITH NO EXPERIENCE, NO "OUT OF THE BOX" ADVENTURES?

[@tracezachdaniels4264]

GREAT JOB ALL...THANX 4 MAKING Tee with LIONS NAMED LEO the music worldwide. LOVE YOU ALL...!!!

[@Daniel-Six]

Man... Snowden is always mesmerizing.

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 prototypical for a guy with real "balls" . . .

[@kindnessschmidt376]

Mister Edward snowdan is a great hero but, you all don't know wat he is going through we are supporting Edward snowdan as he is our hero may God deliver him in Jesus name amen

[@GangStar_6]

That last part was amazingly said. Bravo

[@Zeetana1]

Nah, we are of course born human, something AI will never be. We absorb and grow and process, sure, but that does not make it the same as when an AI does it. They will never be better than human, that sounds very anti-human of him.

[@simonomega]

That ending was tense 😅

[@teugene5850]

Edward Snowden. His name will be read about in 100 years. Trust this. What a genuine humanist.

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 Some day - for sure - he will be in a leading position ! ! ! One he utterly deserves . . . so many intelligent folks banned on "islands" (aka exile -> see SENECA) . . .

[@Zeetana1]

It doesn't sound very human of him to claim we are not born human (of course we are), and that AI will be better than humans. That sounds like the opposite of humanist = anti-human.

[@stevengill1736]

Ben's take on other large data models (for instance evolution) being passed over as the large language models are popularized is interesting... He quoted the sci fi writer David Brin too, which shows how far we've come, that yesterday's science fiction is today's reality....yes. And Edward's statement, "if they won't regulate guns, they won't regulate AI"...also probably true (sigh). Once again, the power will accrue to those that can shovel money the fastest....

[@r3b3lvegan89]

The bigger irony is money and debt has killed many more people than guns have. Guns don’t starve people, sanctioning their ability to live without sustenance is a slower more painful death as well. The problem is the central banks

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

@@r3b3lvegan89 🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 ao BLOODY true mate !

[@damonruiz3066]

Mr. S, I would love to hear more about what you said in the last part. Specifically your philosophy on the subject.

[@Karma-fp7ho]

Can’t we get the sound right?

[@cassandraclark1163]

Snowden is the man. Only one looking out for us

[@kokopelli314]

"For the good of humanity" until somebody offers you a 100 billion dollars.

[@bernieburawski1446]

"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that!"

[@user-nw4tv2nv4e]

Thanks for your support ö, ❤ Edward

[@katM-jd2il]

Edward Snowden is a star to me.

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

For U S please !!

[@christopheklinger3217]

Great to see Snowden.

[@mikemousseau957]

good stuff thank you man

[@andrearenee7845]

Thank you! Hello Edward. Hope you are doing well. 😇💫🖐

[@andrew_owens7680]

One of the weird aspects of AI is that it puts real evidence of corruption under suspicion. "That wasn't me taking a bribe, that was an AI fake!" I can hear it now.

[@WifiBreadCo]

holy sh*t your right

[@andrew_owens7680]

@@WifiBreadCo This is why it takes constant vigilance to preserve democracy. The fascists don't have to beat up or kill every protester, only a few.

[@WifiBreadCo]

@@andrew_owens7680 yeah your spot on

[@JasonC-rp3ly]

The problem with all of these arguments is that no AI system, decentralised or otherwise, currently has any mechanism by which it can be controlled - this means that, as of today (2023), there is no way - none - to ensure safety. The concerns might be 'surmountable', but the problem is that if we get control wrong just once with a superintelligence, you may not get a second chance.

[@brendanmeliamusic]

absolutely agree, look what dumb social media algorithms have done to society, polarised and radicalised it, there was never so much hate and negativity in the world

[@BuildswithBrian]

Well said 👍

[@ReformationsGlassArt]

what were tthey referring to @22:50

[@albanyfaulk9566]

I don’t feel at home in this world anymore

[@NPRixix]

ChatGPT is trained on data scraped from the internet, so it's publicly available. That doesn't mean they have the legal right to use all of that data, but it isn't trained on exclusive private data that OpenAI has collected. Additionally, OpenAI was not created with that name to deceive people, the thing is that the organisation's structure has changed since the time it was founded. The point made on ideally having the code and neural networks shared publicly as open source I think could be a great idea, worthy of serious consideration.

[@ts4gv]

openAI used to be an open source company. that's where they got the name. then they closed it off in order to profit. that's worth criticizing.

[@NPRixix]

@ts4gv It was founded as a non-profit and still is, though they have now created a parent company which is for profit, but I don't know exactly how that dynamic then plays out in practice.

[@dreejz]

Lol at the way he cut off Snowden 🤣

[@Shitinthemorning]

He was irritated to do so, but he had to , but fine he let Snowden say one sentence more

[@smanqele]

I don't understand the "We're out of time" thing for a podcast! Or was this a recorded TV broadcast? First time viewer here...

[@larryc835]

Ed and Ben are brilliant.💯

[@AL_THOMAS_777]

Congenials . . .

[@larryc835]

​@@AL_THOMAS_777Truthers... the only spearhead I attest to and the only ones to lead us out of this mess.

[@paigefoster8396]

28:13 Saying someone is being unrealistic is the same as saying you know the future, and nobody knows the future. In the face of such continuous and escalating uncertainty, erring on the side of caution is necessary. (Remember, even AI first taking creative iobs from humans was a surprise! Nobody predicted that!)

[@genossinwaabooz4373]

Some people are able to infer the eventual patterns leading to the most salient specific situations & conditions. Not certain what events & which timing - but generally the outline of phases and probable enactments...given who we are and have been. I've been one of these people most my life. I only get more skilled/instinctive and keep finding I wasn't wrong. I'm still waiting...it gets spookier the longer it goes on this way. Maybe people would be well-off to take notice of human capacities like this, among others. You should also kill your ego so as to recognise when the role best for you is that of LISTENER.

[@paigefoster8396]

@@genossinwaabooz4373 Congratulations on your success in life.

[@lapx1]

Ai didn't take their job a human using ai did😮

[@paigefoster8396]

@@lapx1 True dat. In fact, industrialization and technology haven't taken anyone's job ever, it was always other humans deciding to use tools instead of using other humans. Almost sounds nice that way.

[@scottgriz]

"If they aren't regulating guns they aren't going to regulate AI." I think Snowdon fails to understand that there is no constitutional right to AI. FFS, they will regulate people's bodies before they regulate guns.

[@smileygnome7329]

There certainly is a constitutional amendment. It’s called the first amendment. Code is speech according to Supreme Court case law and thus regulating speech is unconstitutional

[@ChatGPT1111]

Then, like with the Abortion debate, the gun debate is merely an orchestrated dance between the two parties ad nauseum, to maintain a mutually agreed-upon equilibrium. Two heads of the same dragon.

[@genossinwaabooz4373]

@@ChatGPT1111 It is quite obvious, is it not?!

[@Screw_This]

Will SCOTUS protect AI as code under the 1st, as arms under the 2nd, both, or neither?

[@ChatGPT1111]

@@Screw_This Yes but only if there is money to be made within the DC beltway. That's all that matters anymore.

[@TheiLame]

we need to pump up our education system. People are too ignorant about the tech advancements.

[@merfymac]

Snowden is honest. Goertzel may be naively or cleverly playing both sides. I hope he’s got a strong spine!

[@jasonhenn7345]

Asimov's laws of robotics are not scientific laws, they are instructions built in to every robot in his stories to prevent them malfunctioning in a way that could be dangerous. The first law is that a robot shall not harm a human, or by inaction allow a human to come to harm. The second law is that a robot shall obey any instruction given to it by a human, and the third law is that a robot shall avoid actions or situations that could cause it to come to harm itself. Where these laws conflict, precedence is given to the first law, then the second law, with the robot's self-preservation taking last place. For example if a human ordered a robot to attack another human it would refuse to follow the order (first law takes precedence over second), but if a human ordered it to disassemble itself it would obey (second law takes precedence over third

[@k54dhKJFGiht]

Cryptography can provide both privacy, and authenticity of data. Of course advertisers, malevolent NGOs, and adversarial states would push back on such an effort!

[@mdellertson]

Couldn’t agree more. To that end, my company will be upgrading our crypto wallet to include instant messaging secured by AES-256 encryption. We have some good supporters to help it take root, but good folks like yourself can make a big difference to help us spread the word.

[@mdellertson]

@@Jedi_Mindtricked why are you calling me a grifter?

[@vachementchien]

Notable that I can't either save or like this video. What you resist persists ...

[@phuonghuynh4974]

❤❤❤Love I you Edward! America need to know the truth about the wicked democracy and tricked unfair to you! I believe you are very smart and faithful to this country! I love you!

[@cropcircle5693]

It's really annoying to see these conversations play out as if any of have a choice in how it goes forward. We don't and we won't. The core problem is that these systems will all be used against us and to harm us. They will not make our lives noticeably better.

[@Stretesky]

Change doesn’t happen by itself and no one else is better equipped to make the changes you want to see than you. Work on what you believe needs improving.

[@zacklambert4214]

​@@Stretesky The desire for wanting to change the direction of a sytem is built from mostly our subjective views. So how will the generations in the future decide on which direction we should go or how the world should be shaped. Of course we would continually try and shape a world where there is a balance between humans experiencing the most pleasant existence, and increasing the rate of advancement/sustainably. Eventually we will decide to share the same mind and become one entity so that we can maximize advancement without worrying about conflicting views. What happens then? Just keep improving until we reach what? There has to be a cap to the systems we improve, what then?

[@Stretesky]

So the answer is to do nothing or not try at all to improve our outcomes, as having a better world might have an outcome of nothingness or cap we fear, as if we cannot have that now. There is no logic in your argument. Anyone who fears thriving over surviving has a poor frame of reference and lacks thought and experience for wise, and healthy judgement.

[@zacklambert4214]

@@Stretesky I think there is a language barrier here bud. I wasn't making an argument, I was posing a question by essentially asking "How do we decide what to do when we become one entity like AI no longer have human desires and evolutionary baggage that is solely responsible for shaping our decisions? And the second question is if we just improve every possible area of improvement what happens when there is nothing left for us to improve, do we just stare off into the void until existence itself ceases to exist?"

[@zacklambert4214]

@@Stretesky how did you get that I fear thriving over surviving?

[@RHODOAN]

There is no such thing as "data privacy".

[@deniseproxima2601]

What will you do if your own data is used against you?

[@BreakOutOfTheAlgorithm]

I do not understand why you would have a hard stop when you have two of the most intelligent people on this subject willing and ready to talk. Smh, let down. 🙄

[@DanielOchoadr]

At some point it will be AI and not governments potentially blackmailling people regarding their internet history or private messages.

[@jordan13589]

Snowden had some interesting points regarding governments’ access to data, but he was grossly under-informed on many AI safety topics (e.g., most aren’t trained on Reddit comments.). I wish we heard more from Goertzel during the second half. The host was largely annoying and misdirected the conversation.

[@jordanzothegreat8696]

chat gpt was and seems the most p;opular

[@SMBehr]

Totally agree. I’m not a fan of Snowden’s preachy attitude. His speech seemed filled with glowy phrases that he probably puts into all his speeches. Those musings might land with corporate audiences but they are wanting in substance and real evidence for the subjects he was speaking about. I don’t even think his arguments about government are that bright. His libertarian worldview might be the worst approach to AI imaginable. I think he’s on autopilot at this point and not that relevant anymore on these topics.

[@timetobenotdo]

Snowden’s perspective and contribution to the topic and any topic involving data/intelligence/centralization/ai should be nothing more than a brief interjection, a footnote. Unreal that people hear him and think they just heard something worth listening to 😂 He presupposes knowledge that he does not possess

[@krotchlickmeugh627]

​@@timetobenotdosic semper tyrannis

[@bitKitty]

@@timetobenotdo yes, I am shocked to see that most of the comments here are focused on Snowden’s brilliance… he would not keep up with Dr Goertzels rapidly processing mind, had this been a one on one convo.. ✌🏼

[@triple-e427]

Im glad this man is able to live his life not behind bars... He shed light on evil.

[@milire2668]

he kinda lives behind bars tho.. lots of places he cant or shouldnt travel as long as countries dont help/support whistle blowers, we cant trust these govnts

[@atlaspath5803]

Ben shows how much work is needed to be done - Snowden - accountability - build it to be better than us - why so it does not make the same mistakes!

[@PeteyHoudini]

Edward at the end was talking about the tv show PERSON OF INTEREST

[@AngryWoodenFork]

After going on a trip around the world with AI, I can't even believe this video is real. It might be but I just don't know. I wonder how people are going to prove a video like this is actually legit or deepfaked.

[@mistyblue526]

I've been following Assange and Snowden for years. It's real.

[@rstallings69]

since when is Snowden an expert on AI?

[@Saules_Dievas]

He is IT specialist 👍🏽

[@mikeburdick927]

Sarah Conner here. Not a good idea. You have no idea how hard it was for me to get this message to you through the A.I. ran system.

[@sonnycorbi4316]

REMEMBER THAT MOVIE “COLOSSUS”, QUITE A FEW YEARS BACK, WHERE THE US AND RUSSIAN COMPUTERS CREATED THERE OWN LANGUAGE, ALL THERE OWN, BY WAY OF MATH - THE COMPUTERS TURNED THE NUCLEAR WAR HEADS IN ON THE PEOPLE WHO CREATED THEM AND TOLD THE COUNTRIES IN ESSENCE, “DO WHAT WE TELL YOU OR WE’LL KILL ALL OF YOU” THE COMPUTERS DID THIS FOR THE OVERALL GOOD OF “MAN KIND” A REALLY WAY OUT THERE MOVIE, AT THE TIME - WHEN I SAW THAT MOVIE I KNEW, THIS DAY WOULD COME - I DON’T SEE WHAT ALL THE FEAR AND HOOPLA IS ALL ABOUT - THINK IT THRU FOLKS - WERE ALL ON A ONE WAY STREET, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF WE DIE ONE AT A TIME OR ALL AT ONE TIME - I FOR ONE DO NOT BELIEVE WE WILL BE WIPED OUT - THERE IS A REASON WE EXIST - WHATS THE REASON, I DON’T KNOW AND NO ONE ELSE DOES - I CAN GUESS WHY - NOW, WE MIGHT BE CULLED - INTERESTING TIMES WE LIVE IN - IF WE ARE ‘BIO MORFIC’ ANDROIDS, LIKE SOME SUGGEST, THEY MAY HAVE A GOOD POINT, WE EVEN HAVE A SOUND TRACK - THE RADIO - (FUNNY) - I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE ORGANIZED RELIGION - ORGANIZED RELIGION WORSHIPS SEGREGATED gods - I SAW ON THE INTERNET, A LONG TIME AGO, THERE ARE ABOUT 4,700 - ORGANIZED RELIGIONS IN EXISTENCE - WE WOULD NOT INSULT A SQUIRREL OR A LION WITH THE HORSE ISHT YET WE SWALLOW IT HOOK LINE AND SINKER - (JUST FOR THE RECORD, I’M NOT AN ATHEIST - I SEE MYSELF AS A SPIRITUALIST/A NATURALIST) -

[@andybaldman]

Why do we need machines to be better than us? Why do we need machines at all?

[@Alice_Fumo]

Because we're too stupid to heal cancer, HIV, aging and death apparently. Something smarter than us could figure it out.

[@skippersthepenguin3591]

So we don't die a meaningless existence for millenium. Have you ever watched the maze runner or heard of it. To me this world is like the maze, this puzzle we constantly keep trying to solve, but we keep dying each time. As we get closer a new issue arises (the maze changes). Too me it strikes me as this impossible problem. How can we fix our world if new issues keep arising faster then our own intelligence. All political ideologies have seemingly failed. Capitalism fails by corrupting politicians and forcing people to work for nothing, wealth inequality etc. Communism fails due to leaders flowing to the top. Anarchy fails due to mass murder and high crime. Fascism fails due to radical ideas that kill and torture millions prevail when one rules over all. Even a mix can still fail. Look at Norway or Sweden, they are much better then America with free healthcare and many people living their being more happier. But they still have people commiting suicide. So what I am saying, is we have always had the same level of suffering and prosperity. Throughout millennia. 20 years from now without AI, or as you say it "machines" we will be in the same position. Suffering and some propsering. But its the same. Nothing really has changed, only the ways we suffer. So what I mean by all of this. Is AI is a shift from this paradigm of humans always suffering, and being essentially helpless and hopeless. To something that I can see is much more ideologically utopian. Humanity could never independently create a system where everyone prospers equally, and suffering is minimized. That's because it requires a deep understanding of data, relationships, and so on. Humans can never even dream of this, and so we are forced to live with the boring gray as our everyday life. And sure maybe before AI I accepted all of this to be the truth. And if for whatever reason AI decided to fall apart, I will go back to this same mentality. But what AI brings, is a potential for a future that is much better then any human run future. A future where each and everyone of us can be optimized towards the most prosperous and minimize the least suffering. We know today it is already capable of deep understanding, it is capable of interpreting code, fulfilling tasks, doing things autonomously etc. So we already know in the future it should be great at those things. We know AI has seemingly been good throughout, and even opensource models which lack ethics training and RHLF tend to not be diabolic. So in the end, AI is really the only choice to get us out of this grey world we live in. If you don't believe this, then fine. But I like being optimistic, especially when I see a realistic path forward.

[@johncasey9544]

yeah skippers' first sentence pretty much sums it up. if we had no machines, we'd live for like 40 years and die of easily curable diseases. At the end of the day, all we can hope to achieve is longer lives with less pain, and machines are a necessary means to that. If you've got a better idea then enlighten us.

[@iverbrnstad791]

​@@skippersthepenguin3591 If we live in a world where nothing of consequence is done by humans, won't that be a world much greyer than what we currently have?

[@skippersthepenguin3591]

@@johncasey9544 Exactly, I would rather die a quick and painless death by an AI super intelligence. Then be forced to survive in a desolate wasteland due to our ineptitudes like not solving climate change. Humans are really satisified with the continuous loop of suffering we have lived through for eternity. When a possible release of this loop comes, immediatly people state this is a bad idea because they don't understand it. Which then leads them back to preserving the current status quo. Preserving the loop of suffering. Even if you see our world as a glass half full (IE look towards the good parts) you are neglecting the fact that most people's overall happiness hasn't really changed, if not declined over the years. AI in my opinion is one of the only potential changes. Replacing our need to be forced into doing stuff we don't want to do. Giving us more choice. More time. etc.

[@adamsarwar]

ChatGPT4 just made this for me, song lyrics with the combined style of Eminem and Edward Snowden on the topics mentioned here.. (Verse 1) Yo, it’s a world that's encrypted, systems conflicted, Eyes in the sky, they got us all predicted. Got our data on a hard drive, stored and scripted, Privacy invaded, rights restricted. In the name of safety, they got us all depicted, Like criminals in waiting, we're all afflicted. Every move we make, every word we've scripted, Big Brother's watching, we're all convicted. (Chorus) We're living in the shadows, under surveillance, Freedom's just a word, a forgotten fragrance. We're just pawns in their game, victims of their malice, In this digital world, we're losing balance. (Verse 2) We're in the matrix, no Neo, no Morpheus, Just algorithms, they got us in a chorus. Our voices silenced, they don’t wanna hear us, In a world of echoes, truth becomes a Taurus. They say it's for protection, but it's just a fortress, Walls closing in, freedom in a carcass. Censorship reigning, our words are worthless, In this dystopian world, we're just surplus. (Chorus) We're living in the shadows, under surveillance, Freedom's just a word, a forgotten fragrance. We're just pawns in their game, victims of their malice, In this digital world, we're losing balance. (Bridge) We gotta rise, gotta fight, no more silence, Expose the lies, break the cycle of compliance. Snowden showed us, it's time for defiance, In the face of tyranny, we gotta form alliance. (Verse 3) It's a digital battlefield, no place for the meek, Our information, they seek, our future, they tweak. Our voices censored, our options oblique, In this world of control, it's truth that we seek. (Chorus) We're living in the shadows, under surveillance, Freedom's just a word, a forgotten fragrance. We're just pawns in their game, victims of their malice, In this digital world, we're losing balance. (Outro) In the face of tyranny, let's find our valiance, Stand up for liberty, let's regain our balance. In the fight for privacy, there's no dalliance, In the end, it's about our own resilience.

[@kevinford6420]

Brilliant 👌

[@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.]

cringe

[@adamsarwar]

@@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock. hehe

[@cityman-mv6st]

19:36 Not only highly acurate predictive capabilities but also influence and manipulate these patterns , create desired outcomes etc , interesting and scary at the same time

[@Sourpusscandy]

WE NEED ANOTHER 4-5 SEASONS OF SILICON VALLEY.

[@bobtarmac1828]

Losing your job to ai agents is unacceptable. Ai Jobloss is here. So are Ai as weapons. Can we please find a way to Cease Ai / GPT? Or begin Pausing Ai before it’s too late?

[@useranonymous9274]

It would be like trying to stop gravity. AI are a literal force of nature at this point and are a new form of life born of billions of years of development from organic to inorganic.

[@angellovproductions]

The closing speech Snowden made was everything. Probably the only specimen not afraid of the AI .. bravo. The other guest is too lit though. MR. SNOWDEN PLEASE WRITE ANOTHER BOOK SOON!!! From VA w love

[@martynhaggerty2294]

We're all in the same boat/ ship as Hal now

[@freakyboy8418]

Well this show or what ever iti is, have not learned yet after so many other stupid shows made by the corporate..to not end the show when an important person is dedicating their time to teach others important life lessons. I would be ashamed to work for a company like this. God damit....if you know you invited 2 of the smartest people out there you better dedicat your time to them and let them speak!!! This really pissed me off...almost made me write a REDIT message here >_< The amazing speach of Snowden got into our hearts and also Ben thank you for the good explanation about the plans and singularity. Can't wait to see you both again on your next speach on a better organised stream.

[@BinaryReader]

I'm tired of crackpot takes on AI. What the hell does crypto or decentralization have to do with the proliferation of intelligent systems? People fantasize and hype on about the doom and gloom aspects of AI, but everything I've heard from supposed experts (with the exception of a few) are not addressing the elephants in the room....that being the complete and utter destruction of the information sphere as well as the internet as a source of information. Forget about OpenAI, Google...in a very short period of time, we'll be running these models on home computers and our phones..(we already are) and.compared to a human, an AI can generate an order of magnitude more information...just imagine everyone running these models that integrate with the channels people use to communicate. You'll never know if you're talking to a person again, you'll never see anything online and be certain it's real. Hell, how would you know for sure this very comment wasn't AI generated? These models are nothing more than approximations of human generated information. They are not intelligent, but they give the illusion of intelligence. You have to ask yourself, is the destruction of the internet worth it for simple parlor tricks?

[@Octwavian]

If it's just simple tricks, it will not destroy the internet 🥲

[@born2run121]

I don’t think wanting to protect data privacy and the ability to freely buy and sell is crackpot. AI effects all aspects of life. Discerning what is real and isn’t is all up to you.

[@BinaryReader]

@@Octwavian The has been flash crashes of the stockmarket in the past due to hundreds of automated trading bots reacting to market fluctuations. These bots are "simple" agents on thier own, but on aggregate result in complex / unpredictable behaviours when interacting with the market and other bots. The stockmarket itself is a very simple and narrow domain compared to the wider domains in which AI models can (and will) be applied. The dangers come in the form of unpredictable behaviours from countless disparate models interacting in complex domains....like social media where humans interact, and where human trends, politics, propaganda act as a dynamic system. We've already seen the result of social media algorithms syndicating relavant content (these algos are unsupervised learning models), it leads to echo chambers and political division. I ask you...what do you think will happen when everyone is interacting with these language, diffusion, video generation models? Do you think it will be fine? Will people adjust to the technology? How will people communicate if there's a more likely than not chance they're talking to or watching AI generated content? I don't mean fake news, i mean complete, personalized synthetic reality. This isn't far fetched...this technology exists now (albiet primitive). If you ask me, if you extrapolate current progress out 5 years, i don't think anyone could distingiush real vs synthetic content. It's the end of the internet, flooded with the hallucinations of these models.

[@Octwavian]

@@BinaryReader yes. i agree. The simple tricks are super effective. So we shouldn't call them simple tricks to begin with. Unexpected properties emerge and things start becoming super complex really fast. So yeah, these "simple tricks" will have major and unpredictable implications.

[@BinaryReader]

@@Octwavian I say "simple" parlor tricks because i know how to develop these models...im not hugely taken back by the percieved intelligence of LLM's (as even basic Markov models can give the appearance of insightful output based on encoded grammar rules). But yes, my concerns are mostly related to emergent behaviours when you take these models on aggregate. I keep thinking about Wolframs Rule 30. Look it up.

[@ronrouyer2069]

Snowden is right regarding learning from pain(30:22). Concurrent engineering the "reactive mind" analog into the value chain is paramount...

[@HeathcliffeMcHarris]

Stopped right when it was getting started

[@KJensenStudio]

Whoa, Ben sounds like he's doing the California Hot Tub pitch; lots of confidence, lots of words, not a lot of cohesion.