Elite Dangerous - Engineering Changes, P2W Update, Powerplay 2 Details

Frontier have revealed two of the pre-built ships that will be available on the Elite cash-shop. Engineering is going to get a rebalance. Powerplay 2 gets some new details.
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[@mightylink65]

This game needs an offline mode before the servers get shut down.

[@nzavon]

Offline/standalone play was one of the promises/feature at the early stage, but then become online only.

[@Ebalosus]

"FDev needs continued funding for continued development" Sure...but that begs the question: _what continued development?_ The last major update, Odyssey, came out *three years ago* now, and development since then has been slower than it was during the Horizons days.

[@DarkonFullPower]

The actual last major development was the Thargoid Titans and the unique war mechanics around them. But that still has been more than a year of stagnation until the recent "go blow them up."

[@wethepeople3670]

Continued development = Continued vacation time

[@barking_mad6649]

Updates weren't slow during Horizon, there were lots during those years.

[@nemesisone8927]

They have to Develope the Development lol

[@esoel]

And lately most developments made the game worse...

[@PocketDrummer]

Frontier logic: 1. Makes a game that's incredibly grindy. 2. Ignores players cries to make the game fun without grind. 3. Surprised Pikachu face when players start to leave. 4. Still ignores long-standing complaints about grind. 5. Offers a real-money "solution" to bypass the grind nobody likes. 6. Players leave the game sooner because grinding IS the gameplay, and now there's less of it.

[@FxUkU2]

6. Players leave the game sooner because grinding IS the gameplay if you don't get your wallet out. No problem with ships for sale, but zero rebuy is taking the p**s and will completely change how people value things and treat the game. If its like this for bought ships, they need to scrap rebuy for all ships, period.

[@Clockdistrict]

@@FxUkU2 There's been instances of getting ships and modules for free for years now, my main G5 bubble runner costs 400k rebuy. It would be far more devastating to lose something that you paid real money for, and credits are chump change once you're out of your Sidewinder.

[@MrDoggo23]

@@FxUkU2 As if people needed more reason "NOT" to play in open.

[@madprophetus]

This is how it works at every studio that pays very poorly for talent. People who can fix these problems get paid much more to fix them at better companies.

[@hardwire666too]

@@madprophetus EXACTLY!

[@4lifeifly]

Can Frontier be any more disconnected from their player base?

[@DrBunnyMedicinal]

If they don't actually pay some attention to what little is left of the player base while they still have one, they will be more disconnected, permanently. But that's obvs not going to happen now.

[@tillson8686]

You could've asked the same question during the Odyssey release and everyone would've said "nah, this is as worse at it can get". Yet here we are. So yes, yes they can

[@poenatroskie4997]

All that they needed to do for engineering was to enable you to buy the materials you need from material traders at a set price instead of trading materials.

[@dcsignal5241]

I'd have been happy with them just fixing the exchange rate.

[@poenatroskie4997]

@@dcsignal5241 true i was just putting out one way for them to make engineering less of a grind but making the exchange rate cheaper can work

[@quantum5661]

god dont even remind me of the exchange rate, isnt it usually some shit like 6:1?

[@Sgt_Glory]

Seconded. It takes time to build credits as well as grind for mats, so let people spend their earned credits on mats they otherwise could only get by grinding loops they may not want to do.

[@Monody512]

Credits are so plentiful this would just give you no reason to ever engage with any of the material sources.

[@valorin5762]

I don't care at all where other players get their ships and upgrades from. The zero rebuy thing is meh though. What I really dislike is that they have the Python 2 ready, but holding it back artificially to create a cash source, offering it on the shop for real money... Like... nope. Don't like that a bit. I'm all for making engineering more accessible and less grindy.

[@Cloudz2021]

Same, I don't care either. There's not going to be a way to tell who paid for their ship and you'll still need to buy A-grade optional components anyway. Only going to suck if the real grind/cost gets increased but that would be so dumb when it's already bad enough to dissuade people from playing long term. I had no interest in Thargoid combat and prefer exploration/mining, but if I can buy a combat ship with no rebuy...

[@JotaDeeMeO]

You kinda get that they are really desperate to get a return on investment for developing this game... and good will generated by a new free ship doesnt seems like it's enough for them anymore.

[@dakotashea3561]

anything but developing a better game

[@Ebalosus]

What gets me with the new Python is that LEP owners don't get early access to it.

[@ArtyI]

​@@JotaDeeMeOwould you feel the same way if guardian sites were out near Beagle Point? Paying to skip progression is pay to win, no matter how much time that progression takes.

[@lolishocks8097]

Mining Prebuilt: Skip the Grind... to grind. AX Prebuilt: Pay to win... against aliens. Ok, this is still not that evil, yet. But the slipperiness of the slope!

[@fnunez]

After years of Star Citizen selling ships, I think it's safe to say that P2W can be avoided by the developer. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen some noob in an expensive fighter get his rear end handed to him by an experienced pilot in a much cheaper ship. FDev just needs to balance things much like CIG does.

[@sennemaa5976]

AX prebuild says nothing hot the ship runs wich is key against thargoids against ax titans.

[@Youda00008]

Why do you call this a pay2win mechanic? It's not even PvP. Pay2win is only when you can use real money to buy something better than other players have to beat them at their game. This is still far worse than what you can build yourself by grinding.

[@sandervanderleek5956]

Noob buys ax Chieftan and get his ass kicked at every hyperdiction.

[@axeell92]

To clarify the slippery slope for those who don't understand: Fdev starts selling ship parts or even whole ships that are stronger than anything else in the game.

[@rapscallionsith8152]

Elite taught me a very useful lesson: never pre order games and never buy season passes (LEP owner here). Haven't touched ED since Odyssey launch, such a shame.

[@edgepixel8467]

Yup. I was eyeing the Life Pass, but common sense prevailed: "Can I really trust this company to deliver on their promises?" "Umm, nope."

[@RudalPL]

I am one of the beta backers so all expansions came in a s "free" bonus and I think i got my moneys worth back from the game over the years, but I haven't touched ED since Odyssey came out as well. I'm an explorer type of a gamer and almost nothing improved on that front for years. The little bit we got was not enough to keep me playing. There are times I think of coming back but that's usually gone by the time the client downloads all the updates. 😆

[@nzavon]

@@RudalPL same

[@jiddick]

Same. Beta Backer here. Fdev fucked the player base so hard it's not even believable.

[@ShamelessDuck]

I used to play ED in solo mode, cuz I'm really bad at pvp, and X4 basically took it's place for me. It's not as grindy and at times incredibly chill, making you spend half an hour or more in map view when setting up stations. Since x4 devs confirmed that there will be multiplayer of sorts (not an MMO type obviously) later down the line, I really don't see any reason to go back to Elite apart from the nostalgia, unless they update the hell out of it, which is honestly less likely than Star Citizen releasing in the near future.

[@HeWhoShams]

Elite Dangerous could have been the game everyone pointed to when they say they want a space game but... smh.

[@nemesisone8927]

exactly but the arrogance of FD killed the game.

[@MrDoggo23]

"Make engineering more accessible". Can people remind me how many times they said the exact same thing over the years and pretty much didn't touch it, leaving us where we are now? Also, I find it quite ironic that they will sell a pvp focused ship that will allow people to straight out ignore any consequences of pvp (buybacks and such). If there ever was an incentive to play in open, it is now gone straight through a reinforced concrete wall.

[@leegartside9942]

I don't get it. There was no PVP ship mentioned at all. What are you getting at?

[@MrDoggo23]

@@leegartside9942 The Python Mk2 is a combat/pvp oriented ship and not the jack-of-all-trade the OG python is. Look back at the announcement they made about it.

[@TMHedgehog]

@@MrDoggo23 The way they're selling ships is with loadouts that would outright get crumpled by anyone who's actually invested in engineering, they're basically pointless, which I think is arguably worse then just selling power.

[@MrDoggo23]

@@TMHedgehog The build might be awful, but it's still engineered, which makes it better than an un-engineered one.

[@Rainbro359]

I mean, Engineering is more accessible than it was in V1, but the bar for that was in Hell so yeah. "More" accessible I can buy. "Good" or "enjoyable", probably not.

[@paultorney6552]

Maybe FD should try something novel like asking all the players that don't play anymore why they voted with there feet.

[@RudolfKlusal]

Not a good idea, I'd think. Majority would say "where consoles" or "ship interiors" and that's what never happens, so why ask in the first place anyways?

[@coltkimber2074]

That's easy they left console players behind that's why I built a bitchin pc...not for elite but for star citizen...buh bye frontier!

[@roadsweeper1]

They wouldn't listen to the answer anyway. What's the point. Frontier have always shown their inability to actually listen to player opinion. They do what they want to do, regardless of what the playerbase wants.

[@kudosbudo]

i dont play because most of the gameplay isnt fun. the grind for mats isnt fun. there are more fun games out there.

[@rulingmoss5599]

​@@coltkimber2074SC will never be good.

[@fusselgammler469]

One of the things that makes engineering a ship kinda painfull was you need to fly to several different stations just to get all the modifiers you want. on a bigger combat ship this can easily take over an hour. (and the pain when you re missing 5 pieces of one material)

[@Sgt_Glory]

Bear in mind there's also the 'onboarding time'. Of grinding out the oftentimes ridiculous requirements by engineers just to unlock acess to their bases.

[@Monody512]

You're expecting making an entire ship build to take less time than that? I would expect it to be a multi-session thing you work towards, for most players.

[@kudosbudo]

@@Monody512 yes. cos currently its a boring process. now if it was fun that would be fine. but its not.

[@aerohead02]

10 years of grinding my tush off to get all my ships, upgrades, ranks, and engineers. I’ve heard a lot of complaints over the years how frontier doesn’t listen, and you’re right, so I’m skeptical if they will change now. But if they do, then give me something I can be enthused about again other than Thargoids. I mean you can only buy so many ships, weapons, and spaceweed, so then earning credits really isn’t an incentive anymore (I know, boo hoo). Frontier, give me a purpose and reason to stay with you.

[@LynxBite]

Try X4: Foundations, hopefully it will cure your grind addiction c:

[@RudolfKlusal]

For me the new Ppl 2.0 is that incentive. I am not at all into Thargoid stuff, I am doing a lot of BGS. So Ppl 2.0 is another layer of it, I can't wait, that's really an update for me. I don't care about new ships, pretty much, but Powerplay upgrade, I am all in 🙂

[@MaZyYTube]

No wonder, a friend of me played sooo many hours 2018 he left the game with bad review. And it looks like he said. Developers give a shit.

[@ghsrthstrhsrthsthstrh9654]

why do people need something to achieve in order to have fun? why do people need something new to grind for to have fun? did you enjoy the gameplay loops that got you to where you are now? was that the fun you had with this game? then why stop? because you don't really have anything to spend all the money you're making on? if you've been playing this game for 10 years then you clearly can handle a content drought because elite is absolutely no stranger to that, so it's safe to say you've been doing the same handful of things for all 10 of those years. repetitive gameplay obviously does not bother you. i can understand not being on good terms with the developers and their choices but you always have a "purpose and reason to stay" with them. it's called playing a fucking video game and having fun.

[@GaryMillerUK]

The pre-built AX combat ship suggests the Thargoid war isn't going to be over with the demise of the last Titan

[@starfireix8207]

Of course not. We were waiting for progression in the thargoid story back in Update 2.4. Instead it was pure silence for 3-4 years. They don't want a resolution to the thargoid war.

[@Cloudz2021]

I haven't kept up 100% with the story, but the idea is that there's a whole Thargoid home system and that they're sending these Titans *to* us, I think Unless there's an ED: 2, the natural ending should be us taking the fight to them, right?

[@i7r00p3r]

Ever asked yourself why they are reworking Powerplay right now? Correct, there will be a new Faction in Powerplay - The Thargoids

[@zimms87]

​@@i7r00p3r probably the other way around. The Thargoid war but with human factions will be the new PP. Like Thargoids have control systems, incursions etc

[@youyu521]

Probably the only thing going now really, AX Prebuilt to get newer players to jump into AX isn’t a bad idea Recently returned but being shuttling passengers out of attacked systems, Ships all engineered for exploration 😂

[@carloschaparro07]

"we will be listening to your feedback as we go about this process" 🤣 What a joke... we were screaming and they didn't listened. Now is a little to late imho.

[@cfodderferret]

To be fair, they'll be listening. It doesn't mean they'll do anything or care!

[@ReggieCuriel]

@@cfodderferret 🤣🤣

[@Sithishe]

Lets hope it brings good content updates. If they start charging for ships like Star Citizen, they better make ships interiors like Star Citizen 😂😂

[@aigarskauls9200]

Well i hope it generates plenty of income for them to push for modular ship interiors.

[@Swatmat]

@@aigarskauls9200 it won't, elite doesn't have the player base SC has, and it doesn't have the gameplay or features to attract people from SC.... in fact it's a one way migration, people leave elite for SC

[@lenni-hazels]

@@Swatmat That's what I think as well. Also my problem with the game is not a lack of ships. As long as the instances are randomly generated when you enter and basically reset after you leave and there is barely a sense of "i have done/changed something there" it's still gonna feel like a shallow game. If they at least added more content I could justify to pay for another expansion, I don't care for ships.

[@1980juseppe]

@@Swatmat honestly speaking SC is a garbage so far, lets see what squadron 42 will be like on relised day, when come.

[@the_OG1893]

They aren't going to develop shit lol

[@thelionsam]

They've struck a good initial balance imho. Ingoing changes hopefully make things even better.

[@heyspookyboogie644]

If they were selling, maxed out, fully engineered, endgame, ships, or ships that are superior to what you can unlock on your own, and therefore to have the best option, you have to pay for it, then I could understand existing players being upset over it, but the way it sounds like they’re doing itI don’t see much reason to be pissy about other than as a way of gatekeeping

[@BRUXXUS]

I wouldn't have any problems with them selling gameplay skipping ships if they just made the game free to play. Buying the game... then buying the DLC, just to BUY a ship so you don't have to play the game you already paid for is disgusting and desperate. I don't care if someone gets to skip the grind I had to do, I just don't think it's fair they have to pay.... to pay..... to not play....

[@Youda00008]

People should actually be pissed about the pre-built ships being useless.

[@dillonahrens8112]

I like the changes. Im really excited to see the implementation and next steps.

[@ShadowOfHistory-wn1xh]

"Not too bad", "Has to have continued funding". Continued funding for what? It's a game with box price, paid expansions and all the customization in this "sim" is microtransaction only already. Theyh shit out update once in never, it turns out to be underwhelming AT BEST and they proceed to doing nothing again. Powerplay 2.0 that's been in the making for ages and is a damn poster change on the station is their largest update in 2 years. It's. A poster. Change. Compared to even NMS that haven't had a single paid feature yet that outclasses 10 years of elite content with a single by-monthly update. What are we talking about, even? Finding excuses for this bullshit is why we can't have good games anymore. Because bunch of apologetic for garbage practices people will justify whatever scam publishers try to pull on them.

[@jonesythejoner]

To confirm this comment, go look over at r/elitedangerous sub. So many people parroting "uH gAmE dEv cOsTs mOnEy sUpPoRt tHe dEvs iGnOrE nEgAtIvItY" its so gross. I hope they just sell the IP to another studio at this point.

[@Discovery2024-rn8kn]

Well said, there are simps then there are Steam forum moderators. The latter are the worst

[@Rainbro359]

Starting to think I hallucinated paying for this game. Had someone literally tell me it needs this "like every other F2P game"

[@walawala-fo7ds]

Yup. Where did all the money fdev made with elite went to? Certainly not all, if not most did not go towards r&d for elite. That's why the game fell behind everyone in tech and features failing even to deliver it's kickstarter promises

[@ShadowOfHistory-wn1xh]

@@walawala-fo7ds they used kickstarter and Elite to fund many other games, like jurasic park or rollercoaster. It's their bad financial call. Not player's responsibility to continuously support Frontier's failed ventures.

[@Qaztar44]

It's pretty clear that Frontier either doesn't have the will, the talent, the money, or all three to make this game what it could be. It could easily be the biggest space game of all time and already has so much near-magic tech working in the background as it stands today, but they'd rather milk it for all it's worth and then drop it off when the player counts drop too low.

[@MrDoggo23]

I always thougth it was pretty clear when Odyssey came out.

[@dylanford1692]

If they could just make atmo planets landable make fleet carriers do more then what they do now and maybe possibly make it a player based economy this game would be the ultimate space game

[@angusmadmac]

It's like noone plays the game in Fdev

[@NeilAFawcett]

@@MrDoggo23 Indeed, Odyssey was the super clear final nail in the coffin as regards any hope for the interesting content and meaningful mechanics we'd hoped for.

[@BrokenKanuck]

They spent it all on dinosaurs..

[@tharrison4815]

I get why it's zero rebuy cost but it would be pretty boring knowing there's no risk. They should give it a cooldown before it respawns for free with the option to pay credits to get it instantly.

[@dillonahrens8112]

The risk is not being able to update said ship until you have enough to upgrade AND rebuy.

[@Youda00008]

Or simply lock the ship away from you until you can earn the rebuy cost using other means, instead of losing the ship.

[@cmdrls212]

I'm going to be interested to see how they balance engineering grind reduction against their goal to sell ships. And yes that's a new goal for fdev. I don't expect them to make any decisions going forward that would jeopardize ship sales.

[@deavo74]

zero rebuy… People will still log

[@Squidgy55]

Probably. Last time I got ganked I lost 25 million in cartographic data. I don't log but I can still understand why people do.

[@TheCriticom]

For Zero rebuy I would let you destroy me for as long as you want.

[@Squidgy55]

@@TheCriticom If you have nothing to lose of course.

[@deavo74]

I guess rebuy would be cheaper than repairs?

[@esoel]

@@deavo74 HAHAHAHA didn't think about it. I bet Fdev didn't either. "Gonna suicide now, it's cheaper than repairs..."

[@KiltenthTV]

Elite was nice, back when Horizons came out and after some fixes. Spent around 1k hours. 600 of that was just grind and trying different builds. For my grand finale (after getting every ship and fighting every fightable thing, mining every minable thing, doing PvP, and whole lot more), I got myself a carrier with almost every module running and put enough money in It for maintenance for 20 months or something. Her name is Lilith's Touch. She was in system Malayamatha. I don't know If she is still there or got completely decommisioned, because inara cannot update. However It's been almost 3 years since I left this game, and I never miss It. It was really good, until It wasn't. Great memories, both solo and with friends. I never said this before but farewell Elite, until a better developer makes a better one. However, if you want to check Lilith's Touch out, please do so. I wonder if she is still there.

[@elohite00]

I was really curious about the rebuy, thanks covering it!

[@fyrfly8768]

Its the precedent Ant. You're staring down the Barrel at Star Citizen.

[@nemesisone8927]

at least SC is a success in this :) selling pixels lol

[@rulingmoss5599]

​@@nemesisone8927Financial success, still fails at being an actual good game.

[@sandervanderleek5956]

The(my) problem with Engineering is the continuous material grind. I think that AFTER you unlocked the engineer, gathered the materials and unlocked the desired grade (lets say Felicity Farseer and long range FSD) You should be able to just travel there and buy the upgrade with ingame credits, Hell even with Ark if you want to skip the travel. The never ending material grind takes the fun out of building new ships and trying new things.

[@fenomfangx]

They dug up the horse's carcass just so they could beat it even more.

[@Howling_In_The_Dark]

God, watching this game die is really painful for me at times like these. I spent so many countless hours in this game world, I was a Fuelrat with 100+ rescues to my name, triple Elite, Going out and exploring the black for weeks at a time, and used to spend months in the ED Discord helping new players. Hell I have Fuelrat merch!! Watching this game crumble under moronic choice after moronic choice from FDev really really sucks.

[@poolhallshark]

I feel you, Buddy

[@b1bmsgt]

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but what is keeping you from playing the game the exact same way you describe above? Odyssey? Ignore it. Prebuilt ships? Don't buy one. The core game is still there, you know...

[@VeganerHippie]

I was rescued by a Fuelrat once. Thank you for your Service o7

[@Erionar]

​@@b1bmsgt I second this. If you don't want premade ships - just don't buy them. They aren't going to ruin your gameplay in any way. If anything, they might actually help the game by making it more attractive to beginners who are interesting in anti-xeno activities for example, and don't have time or desire to play for too long. They will bring money to Frontier which in turn will result in prolonged lifespan of the game we all love. I say it as someone who started playing in 2014 or 2015, can't remember exactly, I got it after the 1.0 release but before powerplay, and fell in love with the game immediately (before that I had some EVE Online experience and didn't enjoy it, Elite blew my mind immediately as I flew my starting Sidewinder out of the starting station with how well done, realistic and accessible at the same time everything was compared to EVE, I knew immediately that it hit the right spot). I don't see anything bad with bringing more money and new players to my beloved game.

[@RudolfKlusal]

EXACTLY!@@b1bmsgt

[@dividedyetperfect]

As long as what's on sale for real money isn't as good as what you can get with time and effort, I'm fine with it.

[@RudolfKlusal]

Exactly, "slighthly better" stuff for money, why not. And I'd love to help Fdev financially, this is the way.

[@DrBunnyMedicinal]

@@RudolfKlusal *And I'd love to help Fdev financially, this is the way.* Why, so they can take that money to give the world such brilliance as *Age of Sigmar*? They provably aren't going to actually put it into E:D.

[@kudosbudo]

oh no it needs to be much better

[@walawala-fo7ds]

So looks like pre-engineered components are not off the table from day one. This pretty much gives Fdev the power to sell even more powerful pre-engineered loadouts which bypass all the grind permits as well. This is a very aggressive approach to take out of the gate as even games that sale ships do not necessarily sell them with pre-upgraded components.

[@Anoobvia]

The transfer costs will be free as well for the modules and ships bought with arx then if their rebuys are free

[@JLim4o]

Would love to see them investing in exploration!

[@Wrootplonk]

To be honest, this is a slight fart in a thimble, mostly because buying a cash-shop ship doesn't equate to a player actually having that much of a leg up.

[@reikanou-issen]

"Put a ship in it and make them pay", I guess

[@sinntaxdagreat]

While ship purchase is a slippery slope they need to be careful with. I'm glad they are figuring out a revenue stream to help support the game

[@darrenduerden]

Separate profiles! Sometimes I’d prefer to be out in the black exploring but others i might want to jump into the bubble and join the story there

[@jasonking5405]

I'm not surprised that the insurance rebuy on the store ships will be zero. The rebuy has always been based on a percentage of the credits you've spent on the ship and it's modules. That percentage depends on if you're a Alpha/Beta backer or not, but zero credit spent equals zero credits rebuy. Same goes for the other ships that have been offered for free over the games history, their rebuy has been zero too. So this is nothing new.

[@demus89]

Bro makes more money on one video than Fdev makes in an entire year.

[@Rigel_Chiokis]

Getting a free ship whenever your ship gets destroyed has always been there, provided you don't mind going back to a basic Sidewinder. I can see the pre-built ships being attractive to players who would like to try those play styles but don't have the time to do the grind to get there.

[@heyspookyboogie644]

When I started playing elite, insurance cost were a big deal. But that hasn’t been the case for quite a while now that there’s loans and stuff.

[@trollsmyth]

I do hope your predictions prove true. That would be a much more interesting game to play for me.

[@timewaster504]

I’m really hopeful for the engineering changes… I know it will probably be underwhelming, but if they make is a better loop, I’ll finally be able to continue my progression through the game without completely dying inside.

[@CrimsonGamer99]

It is a player's choice to buy a prebuilt ship. It is also a player's choice to destroy any prebuilt ships on sight. :)

[@austinh1242]

Looks like it's Thronglin' time

[@CrimsonGamer99]

@@austinh1242 oh it's always Thronglin' time.

[@myaantares4036]

Best part, it will cost them zero rebuy. Free Throngles!

[@petewilcox3354]

are there even enough players in OPEN to destroy?

[@andreasplosky8516]

@@petewilcox3354 OPEN? What is OPEN? Why bother with it, whatever it is.

[@brianschwarm8267]

Now I regret not getting the souped up python, purely for the lesser rebuy. As a lifetime pass holder, one of the main things I wanted was easier rebuy costs. But knowing that I don’t have a rebuy on the ship itself is awesome

[@Twiggy163]

I may boot E:D again and try engineering some more. Noticing the result was pretty good fun, I'm still running a LOT of legacy upgrades though.

[@JinxSwe]

I have no problem with paid ships. If it would lead to actual more content for the game. Like good structured missions. Something to do.

[@firestarter000001]

Why cant they make that content and make you pay for that conent? That would be fair for me.

[@JinxSwe]

@@firestarter000001 that too

[@quackquackvr]

That's kinda the problem with games nowadays. They ask for more and more money but most of it seems to go to investors, instead of to the game.

[@commander_fu6457]

Sweet summer child, this is fdev, they don't add more gameplay content. They want very shallow gameplay systems.

[@BRUXXUS]

They've had a decade to do.... anything... and have not. Selling a few dozen pre-built ships to gullible players ain't gonna change anything. FDEV are just trying to keep the lights on at this point. The company has lost like 93% of its value in the last few years... The management and executives have proven they don't know what they're doing.

[@wmgthilgen]

Prior to Odyssey, Horizon had a "NOOB" zone, which isn't available now in Odyssey. In addition to the extreme learning curve, a new player must without realizing it, learn to accept the though there are many ways to describe it, the most common is "THE GRIND". I don't see the new ship's as a p2p or p2w as much as I see it based on what I've heard in regard's to the loadout's of the first two, is they are more of a "JUMP START" to the game. I as a new player when ED Horizon was first released on the PS4, being 66 year's of age at the time. Avoided, any and all form's of pew pew, and engineering for the first two year's, which when playing some 8 hour's a day, six day's a week, was a lot of hour's. But then, I'm old, and muscle memory, learning curve's, interdictions, gathering material's, was quite enduring. That was some 9 year's ago, and now I've got between the main three device's, more than 9,000 hour's. Comparing what I know vs what I didn't know back then. No expericenced player, is going to want etiher the T6 mining nor the Cheiftan AX. Any and all experienced player's can see that both are entry level slightly modded ship's, and would never purchase them with credit's, when one can purchase the un prebuilt, and end up with a considerably better load out. Assuming a new player buy's one of these two shio's, because just as they would with the sindwinder giving to them. In a system that is no longer safe for noob's. Be greiefed just as they are beeing done now as they leave the toast rack the first time. A noob who desire's to start with a prebuit specifically loaded out for mining or Goid hunting. No more than they can with the free sidney. Be any better at flying, landing, mining, pew pew with npc's, human's let along the goid's. The earilyest "END GAME" when it comes to ED aka Odyssey is mostly buy noob's who find the learning curve to steep, griefed when playing in open, in search of other player's manily for advice. And the mostly accepted version of a process, few ever really embrace; "THE GRIND". A game producer who's had a successfull running game for some 40 year's, need's today the same as they did the first day's; PLAYER'S. Without new player's, subtracting any and all of the money crated from selling arc's. Is a mandaate when in an economy such as it is. ED didn't have a lot of compitition originally, today the compition is to the N-th degree, a major factor in the success or failure of a video game production. P2P or P2W is a reality, it's the new thing, in which gaming companies considering the low margine's they make, when there's so much compition. Having well over 9,000 hour's, and more than 6 billion in credit's. Though arc's have been available for a few year's now; Just bought my first bit of arc's, which will allow me earily access to the new Python Mk II. Being some 75 year's old, having to wait three month's for a new version of the only ship I've utilized for more than 6 of the 9 thousand hour's I've invested, is great, when at my age, the day's left I have to play, are in compared to other's player's rather short number's. Having the experience I now have and learning what the first two ship will be and how their going to be loaded out. Have zero interest in either. And even if I did, could and would simply purchase the in game version, and load them out, considerably better using credit's. The new prebuilt compared to that an experience player can and could do, are nothing but starter ship's.

[@zappyzane]

Are griefers still playing? I'm sure they'll love zero-rebuy (just changed cost) ships. But it would be useful as a Fuel Rat: just upgrade to max jump range + Fuel Transfer limpets, do client, debrief, explode back to Wollheim Vision.

[@user-yp1hj5zv9i]

With that buying ship's does that also count for if you sell the ship in game does that mean that you can just get it back? Easiest money grind ever

[@bleakcognitivefuture7913]

If they could do something like helldivers 2 warbonds i would be fine with it.

[@cold_ultra]

That would require them being able to add features to the game. Funny how some games can add 4 weapons per month, while other can't add any after 3 years.

[@HighwayUK]

Also why have they still not put in any passive income from NPC ships for carriers? cos they will need this for the planet bases mechanics too when that comes in, or again bit pointless.

[@DavidKnowles0]

It sound pretty much like the same system they use for the Thargoid war.

[@karrde593]

I think its positive that frontier are looking to sell more in the shop for the sake of the game, but to me they're just setting themselves up to fail, again. There have been so many things suggested on the forums of things people want, many / most in the realm of possibility, but somehow frontier think that selling bypasses to gameplay is going to somehow make a fortune. Lol.

[@dmain6735]

Can I just harvest the engineered/unlocked modules and destroy my ship? Do I then get infinite engineered modules?

[@aigarskauls9200]

Well if you want to look at games selling new ship (introduce tech tree then "lock" it behind paywall for 2-3 months its World of Warships its working for them sadly) i think marketing team told them to look how well it works will it generate anything or not(it will but how much income only). So personaly i'm thorn on this if it was OLD ships ok i can understand that you have ways to get them cash or grind. but new things i HATE that part i do have arx that i buy monthly(in a way to support them) meaby i will spend them finaly more since otherwise they will collect digital dust.

[@enesis5472]

bwahah Frontier didn't see that one coming! you guys so funny

[@DominikJaniec]

7:52 so, just powerplay, nice...

[@sir.gooseington6488]

let them, majority of the playbase left years ago anyways. nothing more then milking a dead IP for last few drops.

[@wetwareerror9511]

Even de nerfing the raw mats crystal shard site would be a step in the right direction

[@cmdrandreyuenari4150]

The crystal shard sites have never been nerfed.

[@Padillajuan9]

This reminds me of star citizen

[@kunimitanaka1079]

I am very interested in the new PP 2.0. Despite the rather disjointed presentation they delivered the information that was provided was all good. Did very much feel like it needs to Open only though, at least many aspects of it, and I am not against that personally.

[@jackietreehorn]

Sad day for ED. o7

[@davedanter]

Why, because you can buy a ship?, your obviously not getting your way, too bad, so sad

[@Carahan]

And such a sad day too after the whole thargoid titan work.

[@cmdrblahdee]

So Powerplay 2.0 = battle pass. I was hoping for more details regarding new ways of gaining rep/loyalty... like maybe on foot battles? Take over a station, for example. Possibly, have unique missions that reflect the unique way a power might go about accomplishing a goal. That could incentivize players to join the power just to play those missions. Or even some mundane missions like augmenting a police patrol. I'm not decrying this as a failure... but so far, I'm not impressed.

[@baronvonschnellenstein2811]

Based on what has been said and shown so far, I remain unconvinced that " 'power' 'play' " will be any more engaging, let alone appealing to those outside the current rump of players that actually like and play this feature. It probably needs more tangible interactions with the BGS to make it a bit more meaningful. As to the cash shop, I said it in your last video on this and I'll say it again: If FDev were going to do this, they ought to have done it (esp this AX build) at the point the stargoids set up shop in the bubble. I think FDev would have got a fair amount of sales out of that and although I'm not one who wants to see non-cosmetic microtransactions in E:D, I think it would have got a fair few of us who stopped playing because of ED:0 to come back, even for a bit: - There's been a couple of points during the Thargoid War arc where I've been tempted to come back (left a few months after ED:0 ), but been put off by the prospect of RNGineering my AX ship to current spec. - Another option that FDev _could_ have pursued, which could avoid introducing P2W: Perhaps they ought to have reworked ship RNGineering to reduce the interminable grind, rather than focus on PP.

[@Nevan_Nedall]

They spent over half a decade making the game a grindy shitshow, and now they add ways to pay to skip past said grind. Honestly it's brilliant.

[@commander_fu6457]

Its a pretty standard technique. Get people attached to your game -> Create problems -> Sell solutions

[@magscorch7706]

Its been done numerous times, take for example War Thunder or World of Tanks

[@RatanaKhengChristyle]

Elite Casino Universe

[@HighwayUK]

I would have maybe liked to see proper career modes added for all players that give them use of free ships (not owned or upgradable) only while 'on-duty' doing objective based missions with timers within a faction career path... with proper guaranteed minimum incomes per hour/mission... none of the RNG rubbish, such as a military career that gives you only access to appropriate ships and gear with ranks that unlock access to better ships, to do policing of local system, like an extended tutorial, and give them an incentive to play the game without as much grind in a limited fashion, want a free Anaconda? do 10 tiers of rank on a police career killing pirates... and once you retire its yours with a Police preset loadout and skinpack/kit that cant be altered afterward, but maybe has specialised military stuff only available with that career path, and a perk of reduced or free rebuy in the faction system, likewise if used outside of that factions space, there would be higher risks from rivals and larger bounties on your head.. I'm sure that careers could add a huge difference for new and returning players, especially if they have them for all the different roles and factions.

[@Vajuras]

Havent touched the game since they dropped VR support

[@darrylr.4983]

I haven't tried VR in over a year and haven't played at all for about 6 months. I didn't hear about no VR support? It usually worked well when I used it way back when.

[@MrTbone1975]

same

[@Soldier4USA2005]

Same, but for the dropping of console support. Instantly lost a ton of players for that, on both sides.

[@minisune]

@@darrylr.4983 There is no VR for the foot stuff, the VR for the ships is unchanged.

[@davedanter]

Have a CV1/G2 never used them since i upgraded to Tobi

[@leggsta84]

Why not just make the rebuy available any time, for all players? Dont have the rebuy amount? Well, go to an insurance broker at any station when you do, and rebuy your ship. This would be a benefit to both players who buy ships, and those who bought them with in game credits.

[@Azzaroth]

I'm suddenly not so sad to have lost updates on console.

[@schlirf]

This move will help the established game players for sure. But Frontier needs to sell more game units to new players.

[@sennemaa5976]

I like the changes 👍 less grind good

[@LiveseyMD]

Nothing really surprising. They are certain about selling ships, but they aren't certain about how they're going to reduce the grind for engineering.

[@elvfrem]

As someone who got into Elite Dangerous like.. 2 weeks ago, i can deffo say that the game needs a LOT of rebalancing and a LOT of better tutorials and just general guidance on how to do things. I can see tons of new players just downright quit after some of the absolute bs i died to that was never a fault of my own cause the game never taught me or showed me anything.

[@sofiejensen3804]

as a player where time is a commodity, I am looking forward for another way to get engineered equipment... I simply do not have the time for the grind.

[@gnudj2918]

Bro. Don't give in. Engineering shouldn't have happened at all. Fuck grind, and monetization depending on it.

[@StreetSurfersAlex]

@@gnudj2918 well but it did happen. And now a part of the community just can't afford the time to get engineered equipment

[@PocketDrummer]

The entire game is one big grind. What are you going to do with your time when you've bought your way out of it?

[@Lucpol1986]

@@PocketDrummerEnjoy the grind less game 👍🏾

[@durt214]

@@Lucpol1986 The grind IS the game lmao.

[@SgtMajor82]

Let's face it. If they charged a £30 maintenance fee per year then I feel that most players would pay it. And those who don't want to pay a maintenance fee are free to find something else to play...

[@43615]

I expect that prebuilt ships will naturally warrant the same sort of disrespect as boosted/bought accounts. It's not an outright exclusive advantage that can't be earned in-game, but just a shortcut for people with too much money. Not that egregious compared to other games, but still tarnishes Elite's image somewhat. On the positive side, they put some thought into not ruining the CR economy by overriding the cost to be 0 (speculation from the confirmed 0 rebuy) and the builds shown so far are not maxed. I'm much more upset about the "early access" Python Mk II. I can afford it, but many others aren't as fortunate. If it ends up having some unique advantage, that's literally P2W.

[@MrSmartman23]

I personally dont mind if game has totally accessable ingame items for real money, like this ships or modules. 3 months delay for python mk2 sucks tho

[@EinonY]

Overall, these are small changes that probably won't have the necessary revenue. I don't mind live service games having a real currency shop to help keep it alive, but not when it's pay to win. Keep it in cosmetics, not in items or mechanics that alter gameplay or the whole balance of the game. Also their store feels very poor. there isn't enough content to appeal to players regularly - feels like you buy a couple of skins you like, different colored weapon and engine emissions, and probably some name plate and suit skin, and that's it. A handful of items over a 10 year period. That doesn't sound like enough to maintain the game.

[@andreasplosky8516]

I was hoping FDev would make changes that the game actually needs to become a better game. How stupid of me.

[@dmain6735]

ikr - shuffle the deck chairs /call it a new thing- charge money.

[@willemdodgerford5782]

So, halfway through the video and still havent heard anything about ship interiors....

[@kage9426]

it seems like FD took notes from gta online for the python

[@JudahDavis]

They wouldn't have funding problems if they just released a good DLC.

[@owlangel7234]

I already have two zero cost rebuy shops.... free ships I got. They aren't engineered though of course

[@oneofdavidsmightymen]

Hey dude Perthshire that’s near me

[@sadskytristeciel1439]

Without naming anyone, I heard influential people in podcast saying out loud that they would gladly pay for new ships. I think Frontier are doing their best with what they have. It's easy to criticize but it's impossible to please everyone. Could it be better, yes, but it could be way way more worse. I have more than 2000 hours in this game and i feel I could put easily another 2000. Frontier have disappointed me a couple time, but seriously, they also have made the best space game I ever played. o7

[@TheTitanFind]

Spot on! 6k+ hours in and no going back here.

[@Merudiana-the-local-demoness]

Star Citizen without the cool full interiors and universal level to detail.

[@Ma55ey]

i mean im a console player anyway so Frontier left me in the dust years ago.... But i was expecting brand new ship designs at least.... not just different specs for existing ships..... why dont they let you buy things like thargoid hearts in the shop aswell..

[@WingC3]

Uffff, the free rebuy is the worst thing. Griefing was already an issue during events and community goals... imagine what it'll be like now when they can do it with impunity; even if they're killed.

[@domenicobianco6287]

Quando porteranno odessy su ps??

[@Mr.Edgelord9000]

Hey maybe they'll add pre-built fleet carriers 😂

[@mikezbr]

I'll buy a fleet carrier! I still need 2.5 billion!

[@HighwayUK]

TBH I would prefer to see all pay to win items locked behind need to have Elite rank in the categories they are for, and for new unranked players, just vanilla gear, cos opening the door to noobs getting high end gear in seconds just eliminates the point of the game, and increases the rate they leave when dont have the skills to use them effectively or any worthwhile end game reason to play once they have them.

[@StreetSoulLover]

Imagine wanting to join your friends in for some PVP - oh wait, I have to grind for 200hrs just to be able to compete with my friends? No thanks! Certain facets of this game are locked behind hundreds of hours of grind just to be able to undertake certain types of gameplay! Don't even get me started on Rank grind for certain ships! They actually should have gone the whole hog! Make everything purchasable via their storefront so people can engage with everything from day one!

[@Cloudz2021]

No trading, huge grind and no way to buy ships really hurts new players imo. Progression is a slog.

[@happyspaceinvader508]

I wonder how much real-world money a fleet carrier will go for. 🤔

[@WELLbethere]

​@@Cloudz2021yes because those new players who don't stick with the game unless they can instantly have a fully engineered corvette/cutter will surely stick with the game after they have been granted said fully engineered ship and have nothing to work for and have to create their own fun... The logic here is truly a pretzel.

[@Sgt_Glory]

​@@WELLbetherewho cares, those players will leave anyways when they can't get what they want. This way, they make some bank off them before they leave.

[@Cloudz2021]

@@WELLbethere How is this is bad for you or the game? What's the difference between someone spending 50 hours grinding, buying the ship and then quitting vs spending $10 and then quitting? Good luck convincing your friend to spend those 50 hours grinding just so he can get to the same place as you. Personally, I'd rather hunt Thagoids with my friends than watch them grind for weeks.

[@stevenboughner7255]

So long as everyone has the option of getting a pre built ship then it's fair. I play once in a while MWO you buy your Mechs. Then if your Mech gets destroyed the game ends and your mech will be in the inventory for the next match.The difference here is those Machines are basic, nothing combat worthy against a veteran. I also don't think too many new players are going to go head to head with a Thargoid intercepter. I guess because the ship is free you could get killed. and not worry about credits. I think that you can't use the mods on any other ship you own. So there are limits to this.

[@sidrat2009]

I love the passion OA has had for Elite Dangerous from the first days of ED. He stuck with it even after an update and subsequent video made him cry. I can live with P2W or "monetary unlocks" even for a "premium" game - the early access is a kick to the balls because if it's ready release it ffs. Anyway I can live with the P2W theme as long as the content warrants the opening of the wallet. My go to free to play game is Warframe. Very different from Elite Dangerous which isn't a free to play game. I wouldn't buy cosmetics but I would buy "upgrades" or "content unlocks" for really good repeatable experiences that Warframe provides. I wonder why people don't look at GTA5 Online which offers similar story line missions both solo & co-op?

[@MaverickBlue42]

I'm fine with a cash shop, as long as it's only giving you stuff that you can already grind for without spending all the time grinding. Time = money after all. If they start releasing things that can ONLY be purchased with real world cash, then that's actual pay to win, this is just pay to avoid grinding, and the whales out there will throw money at Frontier to avoid the hassle of grinding which means more funding for development.

[@Umkomaas2010]

They also have costs to cover. If going down this path enables them to keep supporting and updating the game for the next decade or longer, then I am ok with it. For what the game can be bought for now, you would have a difficulty arguing that the current value for money in scope and playability was not an incredible deal.

[@festersmith8352]

What? Ship sales to fund a game is crazy!