Engineering Management: Interviews & Hiring ft. Google Engineering Director

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We sit down with Dave Rensin, former Google Engineering Director and Pendo VP of Engineering to ask him how he thinks about hiring engineering managers and what makes a great engineering manager.
Chapters -
00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:43 Difference between a great engineering manager and a good or a bad engineering manager?
00:02:36 How do you assess and identify great engineering manager?
00:04:27 Favorite question you like asking engineering management candidates?
00:06:46 How do you cultivate the culture of growth and learning?
00:08:18 Other criteria you're thinking about when evaluating an engineering manager?
00:09:58 How do you talk about your biggest failure?
00:11:16 What are the important frameworks that engineering manager should know about?
00:12:49 Engineering managers most important qualities?
00:16:48 Tips for people in the midst of an engineering management interview?
00:17:31 Tips for people who are considering transitioning to engineering management?
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#engineeringmanagement #google #tech #eminterview #entrepreneurship #director #software #exponent

[@tryexponent]

Don't leave your engineering management career to chance. Sign up for Exponent's engineering manager interview course today: bit.ly/3VA4r8n

[@rsardenberg]

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[@dlodeprojuicer]

Please do more content with Dave. Theres so much more we can learn from him.

[@m1rac1e]

every single word that comes out his mouth is pure gold honestly. It seems to boil down to be HONEST, conscientious, & intelligent

[@rajeevrp1500]

So much clarity on his thoughts. This was a really good conversation.

[@razvanalinbalan4215]

That's the composure of a man who knows that he knows how to do his job. Thank you from a fresh EM!

[@careya]

I’m surprised he didn’t focus more on quality. As a software development manager, my focus was always on trying to level up the skills of the team and the overall quality of the software. Also, meeting deadlines is incredibly important.

[@dikan7421]

Dave thank you for sharing, it's excellent to see seniors likes you come and share .

[@davidv5748]

Great interview. This was very helpful. I love it when people can be crisp and on-point about sharing real-world knowledge. Thank you for taking the time to do this!

[@abhilashb13]

This is Brilliant . So much learning And the best part is he is so much honest and expects completes honesty

[@ishan000000]

This is one of the best interviews I've heard in sometime, anywhere actually.

[@eliegakuba]

I enjoyed listening to Dave so much that I hoped the interview would last longer. He has such clear and calm thoughts that make you trust his words. I am currently exploring my career options as I feel I have reached the top of my role as a technical lead in MLE. The engineering manager position aligns with my vision. I appreciate Dave for sharing his wisdom with us.

[@yossarian2909]

Wow this guy is like a Zen.. on top of his game... learnt a lot from this video.. not just for my upcoming interview, but also things to apply in my career

[@ashishgoyal255]

The guest is an amazing professional! Loved his thought process. Would have been better if there was more follow-up conversations on the points Dave mentioned. Thanks Exponent for introducing us with the amazing person.

[@ajayjeetsharma8642]

This is so valuable, and there is so much to learn from you Dave!! thanks so much for your time!!

[@kalmurza]

Bookmarked. One of the best videos on engineering management out of hundreds of them on KZbin

[@just-explore]

Wow, this is one of the awesome interview. Thanks !!

[@gameplayer1980]

That advice on "raising your hand first" when you're wrong is critical. Directs follow your example as well. You want people to take credit for their contributions but also take blame for the incorrect decisions they make.

[@IvayloKabakov]

Gees, this conversation was great! I love this guy! Zero noise, pure signal. Just brilliant!

[@1anre]

This some of looks into the minds of Engineering Leadership such as Dave who make those final call during your interview rounds, is really neat. Allows you to think about yourself as a human being first of all than just a tech element being used to move some tasks across & to enable you think deeper about your responses when asked questions about Engineering Leadership roles you want to join and be a part of.

[@TyzFix]

Meeting is a bug not a feature. That’s interesting. Really want to hear more from Dave

[@rahulvutukuri9254]

Awesome very useful... motivated to transition in to engineering manager... now i retrospect to try this with my team for 6 month and decide if its a permanent choice

[@aabhasarora]

Best 20-minute video I have watched in a while. Thanks a lot to Exponent and Dave

[@himanshubizdev1343]

I must say - Dave is One of the best Manager! Hope other folks get inspired by him too!

[@abhiseknandan]

Excellent video. The thoughts are crisp and clear and really helpful.

[@anniephan665]

I'm watching this right now thinking about which direction I want to grow my career. My is heart beating so fast hearing some of these points because I resonate with them on a personal level as I'm pausing to reflect on the past years of my career. Thank you so much for sharing your invaluable thoughts.

[@voodoochile80]

Ahha seems like your heart already knows the direction you should be taking. You should listen to it. Good luck, and I agree, so many good points here and lots of inputs for self reflection. Exciting topics

[@SulaimanRafiq]

Plain speaking that was simple yet some very deep points that got to the root of what's good. Great interview 👍

[@tryexponent]

Thanks for listening

[@ThRealJC2]

Communication, communication is highly important, totally agree.

[@behnamtavakolzadeh3502]

Bright and clear points, and Dave was very good at explain them. thanks for the great conversation, please make more videos with him if possible.

[@jameslowe4865]

Great advise, such encouragement. Keep posting.

[@siddemizard]

This guys rocks..!! Broad truths. I want to have a leader like him, even better I want him to be my leader and mentor. Please team, do more content with Dave, this guys has a lot of pearls to share with the audience. Thanks

[@ShanArshadCh]

Awesome. Wish you guys interview him for bit long to cover more topics.

[@navneetgupta2213]

this was pretty good, thank you for organising this

[@harirao12345]

Very good and useful conversation! thank you!

[@khushbupatel1465]

Profound content!! Very insightful and helpful.

[@TheRaviManikandan]

amazing interview. thanks for doing this.

[@YevheniiHloba]

Great conversation. Thanks for inspiration

[@zickonezero]

This is incredible. Thank you.

[@ArmanOhanian]

Great talk! Thank you!

[@jmase215]

Awesome, and I love his candor.

[@nancyankur1]

This is really good. And I totally agree on havng a tech manager. Pure management roles in technology do not make sense. I think its difficult to build repo with the team if you arnt technical at all.

[@praveentavargeri8770]

He is so right!! Thank you for this interview

[@karthikkumaresan1091]

Thank you for approving of him 😂

[@dixcychaitanya]

Very good video, got to know the expectation from a Manager in general. It also really helped me understand interviewer's perspective when evaluating an EM.

[@tryexponent]

Glad it was helpful!

[@anolivieri]

Excellent interview and hints. I had to check IMDb to confirm I was not watching an interview with Homelander, though.

[@tryexponent]

😂

[@ledouxill]

outstanding conversation!!!

[@2NormalHuman]

wow so many knowledge bombs, I really love this interview!

[@chja00]

Very interesting! Strongly agree on avoiding pure management roles in tech - it's just a lot easier to earn the trust and respect of your team if you've got the ability to assess their work directly. As I transitioned more into a management role, I very consciously made sure to keep coding, just to make sure I wasn't growing out of touch. Slightly disagree with the antipathy towards meetings - I agree that unnecessary meetings are the bane of good time management, but I would say there's a time and place for short meetings as a way to just facilitate communication. Certain people just need that kind of dedicated timeslot to open up a conversation, where they know they can talk without bothering someone. It's your challenge to keep these only as long as they need to be - if all you need is 5 minutes, don't pad it to fit the 30 minute timeslot. Keep them short, sweet and to the point.

[@mpmohi]

Ha Ha , it's really nice to see how little Dave says yet very to the point. Really enjoyed his views. thanks

[@Ipauler]

Thank you, very interesting !

[@wikas1982]

Very helpful. Super Genuine and relatable

[@hall0ween138]

I would hate being on this guys team. Holy shit.

[@Itachi.Uchiha.Offical]

Why?

[@motormania5250]

This is a masterclass in Engineering Management

[@codewithkemboi]

This is amazing and I have received a lot of insights.

[@singh88manish]

great conversation!

[@RoshanChhetri]

I feel like i have read the bit an pieces in books already!

[@anilsunku3277]

Thank you sir, so much valuable informational.

[@tryexponent]

Glad it was helpful!

[@MrThegourav]

Thanks Dave!!!

[@nafeesbelal6124]

great points . extremely good content

[@saurabhverma7366]

WoW. Conscientious, Intelligent and Naive. Damn, You just nailed it, man. 🥇🥈🥉

[@imran2utube]

Lot of good points including about balancing tech & people skills. I especially liked the answer on answering employee questions. Overall a good talk however couple of red flags - First - having a meeting with every member in the team (including skip) on a weekly or biweekly basis ? And the need to reduce meetings in the same breath ? That does not make sense, what value are you adding to your skips ? Are you not able to let go & trust your engineering managers ? Second the point about chance for growth for an individual - the only thing that you suggest is asking team members to do something that you don't want to do ? Really ?

[@hellothere848]

1:1 ones are very important either way. He clearly mentioned what he wants to talk in 1:1 - Not Project updates but how are you doing with growing out of your current role. Have you identified people that will replace you; if yes have you identified opportunities for them to try out.. Thats golden

[@seethablegalzoom]

Very Genuine !

[@gsilvahc]

Great content and interview! Congrats What means "never hand wave your employees"? It's about "do not underestimate" them?

[@tryexponent]

Hi Guilherme! To hand wave is to behave or talk as if a problem or question is not important or worth serious attention. Hope this helped. Glad you liked the video :)

[@ray941644]

This is awesome!

[@MrAcenit]

Fantastic conversation

[@tryexponent]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@bikashpatra119]

Thanks!

[@dd1409]

very insightful

[@aftabon]

Dave is too good

[@alejandroiacobelli3680]

Excellent insights!!! Completely agreed on almost all of them!

[@newjdm]

Is it fair to say that’s it’s way harder to get a job as a high level IC vs a manager? I feel like a lot of people switch to management because coding is hard

[@abc-bv6ns]

To the point! No bs

[@williamguan5962]

If we slashed the meetings from the calendars, how to discuss those coming decisions? :)

[@hellothere848]

Shared Doc!! He said it

[@NishalnNakul]

Very useful

[@aqualung1466]

Some pretty good points, if you can get past the hubris.

[@moneymaker7307]

He was a director of eng at two different FAANG. He his allowed to speak confidently about his views. stop being so gad damn sensitive.

[@Itachi.Uchiha.Offical]

cry

[@rackfocus8299]

The man was preaching. I felt.like I was in the church of business. Alas, it's like the interviewer could not grasp the wisdom the man was saying.

[@jatinshahself]

I totally agree engineering manager to have hands-on experience with technical work to help and improve and deliver tangible results

[@shypeleg]

Nice dude

[@BassByTheBay]

5:36 - What I find frustrating about this type of question is that it assumes every manager experiences this when that simply is not the case. I've noticed a real bias toward thinking that you _must have_ dealt with a failure of this kind to be effective. But what if you've learned from other people's mistakes and have learned how to avoid those situations in the first place? I've never had a HM ask me how I managed to _avoid_ that kind of situation. I've offered it a few times, but it's pretty clear to me that HMs assume you're somehow less capable because rather than effing up yourself, you watched someone else eff up and learned from _their_ mistake.

[@engineer-to-manager]

Great tips, my guests also share some other things that managers should handle. I encourage you to check them out on the channel

[@cperez1000]

What is an IC?

[@voodoochile80]

Individual contributor, an engineer with no direct reports like generally a title such as "software engineer" or "fullstack developer" imply

[@ThRealJC2]

We called "Acting Manager", the person is trying to become a manager, but the person neither the organization is sure that he will be a manager.

[@chessmaster856]

Lots of good things. But you can not go back and forth between ic and management. Your knowledge does get outdated as you move away. You can not simply start as ic again. Better to keep at ic. Only people who have people management skills can talk their way out by relyiing on their old knowledge. Management is a watered down, educated version of entrepreuner where you dont have the same level of risk but similar.

[@majmod5197]

working yourself out of the job? what is that means?

[@tryexponent]

It means making yourself a great leader. Leaders should spend their time thinking about the big picture vision of the company or team. They help their team learn new skills and feel confident in the vision and themselves. In order to do that, you have to let go of a lot of things that you'd usually work on and spend less time coding.

[@jduv]

Pretty sure I completely disagree with "on timeness" making you bad. If you’re Google, it might work. If you’re a consulting firm--where bad product management is more often than not the root cause of missing your dates because people won’t hire you unless you agree to arbitrary deadlines, then “on timeness” is a horrible and toxic metric. Everything else is spot on.

[@fartzy]

I dont really believe that he wants to work for the best human. He's framing his answer, but he is a smart guy. IF he truly wanted to work with the best people, he would work at the Red Cross, or he would work with social workers or something. I'm not saying he doesn't want to work with good humans, but its not his top priority.

[@rajessss]

Too much bass in the audio

[@wuliwong]

I like a lot of what he says but it is just hubris to think he can have a 5 minute conversation with someone and Know whether or not they will be a good manager. I realize in interviews you have to make a judgment with a small amount of information but with someone you work with that is not the case.

[@arjtalwar]

All exponent interviews are plastic;never organic. The interviewers just go theough a bunch of random questions .. never seen a follow up question based on what the person said or a disagreement/comment on something spoken.

[@edwardlee8656]

Lol yeah so bad but the interviewee here I feel like gave some really good answers which made the content shine. Definitely wish there was a better interviewer here

[@hellothere848]

This was not a typical mock interview; This was interviewing a very successfully EM who is now a VP

[@WeilongYou]

The interviewer failed the interview

[@gadzair7144]

Hmm he seems a little too arrogant. I would have expected much more humility from someone at his level. I don't think I would enjoy working for him. Like imagine, every week you have a 1:1 with your boss and he asks you, hey, how much progress have you made on growing someone to replace yourself? Apparently he asks this every single week. I mean, that has got to be annoying. I mean, shouldn't he instead be asking, "hey, how can I help you?" in the 1:1's instead of demanding to see my progress on this weird heuristic every single week? Yet somehow all the comments in this video are praising him to no end. Great leaders have humility, and it shows the instant you hear them speak. This man is not one of them.

[@randomuser15884]

It might get repetitive without enough time for progress should you be asked to report on your progress to replace yourself every week, that I agree with. But on the flip side I can only tell you how much I appreciate someone telling you in all honesty what he really wants from you and how he’ll be measuring you in the end. It’s a bit like living under the eye of Sauron but could be a great path to personal growth, too.

[@pikugoud1358]

Jesus. Great points but far far too blunt.

[@Itachi.Uchiha.Offical]

Why too blunt?

[@FranzAllanSee]

I see nothing blunt about it

[@JohnKerbaugh]

Demand for a 2 year succession plan is blunt and impractically ruthless. Most businesses do not promote from within so he's basically saying your days are numbered.

[@Damian-cd2tj]

You guys really don’t see the point, companies don’t replace people that are good just because they can. The idea is that managers shouldn’t make the success of the team dependent on them, if that is the case, they didn’t do a good job growing people into higher degree of autonomy.

[@blessengeorge40]

Refreshingly blunt

[@ee5823]

Do you really talk about career growth in every 1:1 with ur reports and skip?? C’mon

[@ghostpeppered4524]

Tuned out in the first two minutes. The Engineering Management role is on a completely separate track from Engineering. There is absolutely no desire on the part of technical engineers to perform management functions, and shoehorning them into that role is completely inappropriate. The idea that it's a strategy for this Director means he must have terrible attrition under him, and be the bad manager according to his own definition.

[@markusParkus233]

Annoying single trick pony

[@arthura9619]

Very useful

[@tryexponent]

Glad you think so!