Ep 230 BONUS VIDEO | Was Jesus DELETED from the Old Testament?

[@LoriHone]

I love this!! I can’t get enough ! I really like Mike voice

[@talkingscripture]

Thanks for watching!

[@timmcclannahan8309]

Light Being TRUTH and Power

[@a.m.o.3323]

Mike is NEVER boring. I’m geeking out.

[@PJStanaway]

Awesome stuff. I'm going to need to re-listen a few more times. So much information 🤯

[@Kevin-ts7hf]

This ain’t no dirt road, this is the highway to heaven. More, please and thank you 🙏🏼

[@talkingscripture]

Thanks!

[@kimweierman149]

Mind blown!!! I'm going to have to listen to this over and over!!! So helpful!

[@talkingscripture]

Glad it was helpful!

[@crazyaboutcards]

Same! 🤯❤❤❤🥰🥹😊

[@aprilgriffin7126]

Can’t love this enough. I’ll be studying again. Gratitude. 🙏 ❤

[@kennethswenson3730]

Incredible discussion. A needed reminder that I have so much yet to learn!

[@PeggyWest1127]

I can’t tell you how much I loved this! I hope you three get together and let us enjoy listening in on another conversation. We are so blessed to have the gospel of Christ and technology that allows us to learn from people like you all. Thank you so much!

[@talkingscripture]

Thanks! Hayden and Jackson are so fun to be around! They have a ton of positive energy.

[@hjohnson966]

This video is so good I watched it twice!

[@talkingscripture]

Thanks!!

[@justielhunter2061]

LOVE this deep dive!!!

[@tlbt2420]

More please!!! I’m a total layman when it comes to scholarly rhetoric but I was so engrossed by this podcast!! Please do more. Thank you!!!

[@bonnienandino6942]

Excellent!! This is awesome.

[@bryanhaycock672]

Great discussion.

[@Borkybaby]

I FREAKING LOVE MIKE DAY!!! Thank you! Subbed! So happy I found your personal channel!!! Please I’m here for allllllll your content!!!!

[@meghanschwanke1133]

"Whomever controls the narrative, wins" So they think...

[@JudyPackard-k3u]

Loved this!! After listening to Talking Scripture for several years some of this made sense already and I'm looking forward to studying it more. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge.

[@talkingscripture]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ClintK.]

Yes! Been waiting for the dirt road episode!

[@FlightParamedicRN]

What a great episode! As a convert from evangelical Christianity I found the Deuteronomist conversation fascinating!! So much was over my head, but I’m learning. I will listen again and shared it with another convert friend. Thank you!!!

[@kristinearchibald6264]

I’m pushing for your 3rd date ♥️

[@talkingscripture]

Me too! Jackson and Hayden are beautiful humans! It’s a joy just to be with them.

[@james8996]

​@@talkingscriptureGenesis 1:26 Jesus speaking, Exodus 24:9-11 Who did Moses and the elders See ( Jesus), Deuteronomy 23:12-14 ( Jesus was walking with the children of Israel his church in the Wilderness

[@kylerobinson7572]

Fascinating discussion! Thank you so much. :-)

[@talkingscripture]

Our pleasure!

[@nathanschaupp9709]

🤯 you guys freakin rock! 🤍

[@rlnewhall1728]

Thank you so much! Let’s keep this truck moving down the road.

[@dr.frasier8549]

💕it! Thanks guy👍✌️

[@danielschulz9304]

😅I've listened to this 3 times, great stuff here. More please!😊

[@talkingscripture]

Thans for the positive vibes!

[@judycheney1031]

Heavenly Father Bless

[@GinaMacArt]

Hi Mike, I love these indepth discussions although I cannot take it all in. It is information overload. It is so nice to see you and to have a face to go with the voice. I also loved the video when you were at the Stick of Joseph studio. Again, information overload. I would love to see more videos like these, please. Warm regards to you and your family. From, Gina Mac of Queensland, Australia. 😊❤️🙏🇦🇺

[@SandraHoehn]

No words can express the depth of gratitude I feel learning from you and Bryce. My questions are being answered…..for this I am most grateful. Your sacrifice of time in bringing this knowledge to light that I may understand. Thank you, thank you , thank you.

[@talkingscripture]

You are so welcome!

[@zionmama150]

This is amazing.

[@TwoStory.Studio]

I loved this! It was so informative and definitely led by the spirit…except for your remark about 🇨🇦 😂

[@talkingscripture]

So glad!

[@tlbt2420]

😂

[@FlightParamedicRN]

If love to see Mike Day chat with Pastor Jeff!!!

[@UtahKent]

Me too, but I would be surprised. And thanks for what you folks do. Real lifesaving Angels.

[@rusty1here]

Wow wow wow. Thank you. God bless. Keep it up Would love to share/ reflect on my thoughts about superlatives and state-of-the-art physics math and cosmology with ya’ll someday…

[@lddisciplespodcast]

An interesting insight comes when you learn that “Magdala” meant “tower”. Mary of Magdalene is suggested to have been a title, not the place she was from, as Talking Scriptures has previously discussed with Mandy Green. From that view, a tower could represent a divine femininity, and in the “tower of Babel” light it may be that there was a counterfeit feminine established through which the people were trying to access God, which sowed great confusion. Sounds like something we can relate to in our modern times!

[@wquon2007]

in the YT vid "Were the Pyramids Built Before the Flood? (Masoretic Text vs. Original Hebrew)" it discusses how time was cut from the genealogies to discredit Jesus' priesthood claim. It also points at the documentary "exodus, patterns of evidence". I think it would be neat to invite the pattern of evidences guys on because, in short, they're trying to correct some of the stuff historians got wrong when first looking at Egyptian history.

[@DC84v88]

I love these commentaries. Quick question for you, the Introduction to the Book of Mormon also states that the Jaredites "came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel." Is the Introduction considered scripture, or is it the same vein as the Chapter headings?

[@tlbt2420]

And I’m confused about the confusion. Is it the length of time that’s being what’s tripping people up? Because it was how many generations to their end? Hundreds of generations. ?

[@roberthall9452]

I loved everything. Blowing my mind on the deuteronomists and putting that ALL in context. THAT SAID, come on. It's the same tower. I don't know why you feel a need to contort over that one.

[@AllenSparkman]

The question to John the Baptist was why are you baptizing here in the Jordon instead of in Jerusalem?

[@mysolesmiles]

love you guys! Wey what about about records of Joseph Smith having had said publicly, that they were not really trying to get to heaven but to Zion, the city of Enoch. He said that they could see Zion for many many years. Remember the city of Enoch slowly rose up above the dirty air as the people were perfected. This took almost 300 years

[@tlbt2420]

??

[@elainehawes9347]

Justin myrter said the same thing

[@mattreedah]

In the original Book of Mormon it said “mother of god” not “mother of the son of god”. I think the original makes more sense.

[@meghanschwanke1133]

Where do we find these classes you mention?

[@CraigEyre]

Loved your program, where are the show notes?

[@bryanhaycock672]

There is a link to the show notes in the description of the video.

[@talkingscripture]

Thanks Bryan!

[@bookofmormonreview]

Hi Mike, thanks for sharing this video! I had a question on the subject of Jesus being removed from the OT. What are your thoughts on Ephesians 3:1-5 where Paul is seeming to state that the message of the Gospel or Jesus wasn’t really known to the people at that time?

[@talkingscripture]

Could it be related to v. 6? Paul notes it is a “mystery” μυστήριον - a hidden secret thing that was revealed. He then states that the ἔθνη - his word for gentile believers in Jesus would become fellow heirs. This to me, seems to be the mystery. I could be wrong. But the OT has struggles with its message about insider and outsider groups. I talk about this quite a bit in our OT podcasts… we see divergent ideas expressed in places like Ruth and Jonah when compared with most of the messaging of the Hebrew Bible. The Hebrew Bible has so many divergent viewpoints, and this is certainly one of them. Segal and Barker discuss the idea that prior to El and Yahweh’s merger in Jewish history, there were “two powers” in heaven, something the Deuteromistic historians flatly denounce, yet in 1 Nephi 1, this is exactly what is portrayed.

[@bookofmormonreview]

I think I understand what you mean. Are you saying that the "mystery" he is talking about is not necessarily the Gospel (let alone the knowledge of the Savior), but actually the point that the Gentiles will be "fellow heirs" of the Gospel, along with the Jews? @@talkingscripture

[@a.m.o.3323]

When is the 3rd date?!

[@talkingscripture]

We just recorded some good material with the Paul brothers and Dave Butler. I’m excited for it to come out soon!

[@UtahKent]

I'd be interested to know what Bro. Day days about Dr. Michael Heiser and his work on the "Two Powers in Heaven" idea from ancient Judaism.

[@talkingscripture]

I love all of Heiser’s stuff and I think have read all his books… I don’t always agree with his conclusions but his work is excellent and footnotes are incredible. Do you have a specific statement of his you would like me to look at? If you’re referring to this: drmsh.com/the-naked-bible/two-powers-in-heaven/ It is a good take. I’ve read both Barker’s and Segal’s work here and their analysis seems encouraging.

[@UtahKent]

Great video. Love the deep dives that each build a foundation for the next. That "line upon line thing." It's vertical. And appreciate your insight on the power of reading and engaging the scriptures. It is our meditation. The printed words of the text may not always hold the the wisdom we seek, but engaging them opens us to the channel God can use to give us the wisdom we need, not necessarily the wisdom we seek. Margaret Barker's "The Great Angel" and Alan Segal's "Two Powers...." Psalm 110:1 and 2 references, Mark 12:36 and Luke 20:42. Christ, the Son, the Son of Man, the Name, the Angel, the Word is encoded in the Old Testament. Christ is not taken out but He is concealed within the Old Testament... for those who have eyes to see. And Yes. The High Priest rent his cloak because Christ had just announced and identified himself as not just the son of God, but "the second YHWH."

[@Art65483]

I want to be Mike's Padawan....

[@a.m.o.3323]

What is a “Baller brag?” (Showing my age?)

[@carrowsmith9117]

Is there a place to learn Hebrew without spending a ton of money?

[@mishelleshealingtouch5106]

How do you get to the show notes? When I click the episode link on the website it take me to KZbin.

[@mishelleshealingtouch5106]

I found a way in😂 Right side of the page, at the bottom under recent posts

[@talkingscripture]

It’s in the description: www.ldsscriptureteachings.org/2023/11/was-jesus-edited-from-the-old-testament/ There are 33 pages of notes in pdf format I put together. This is mainly as a preemptive response to all the commenters on Hayden and Jackson’s channel. Rather than jumping in and responding to all the comments, this document shows anyone interested where I’m pulling all this data.

[@talkingscripture]

It’s in the description… I cannot post the link here because KZbin will not allow me to, but the link is in the description. You’ll find a 33 page pdf document outlining all that we referenced in this video.

[@MidnightSaint760]

3rd date please

[@athenabowler3788]

You are such guys.

[@dannyd7426]

10:34 - I in Latin Like “ee-oh-wvah” or Iowa 🫳🎤 …Or “ee-ah-nwah” or Illinois Ohio would be a pretty bad pronunciation… but could stretch!

[@timmcclannahan8309]

Satan counterfeits everything

[@UtahKent]

YHWH, JEHOVAH, HASHEM, THE NAME: Philippians 2:9 ...the NAME above all others; 2 Nephi 25:20 ... Jesus Christ, the only NAME where by we can be saved.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

You have opened up a flood gate for me and now i hav many questions and i hope one of you will answere them for me. But i hate the hunt and peck of my phone so as soon as i can get to my computer i will start with them.

[@danielschulz9304]

Finally some real meat, milk is good meat is better

[@jaredvaughan1665]

The Bible emplies Josiah was a righteous reformer

[@talkingscripture]

The Bible implies lots of things. That’s really where listening to the discussion is helpful. We outline the reforms and show you Nephi’s response to them. You get to decide.

[@danielschulz9304]

This is awesome, I've been waiting for this since my professor told the class that the Deuteronomists weren't good guys.

[@danielroehm2822]

This discussion needs to be organized better. Bring the listener back to the goal of the argument

[@tlbt2420]

I disagree

[@ApatiEktetheimenos]

Seriously, where is there Scholarship in The Book of Mormon or in LDS Doctrine? Is this 2nd Tim 4:1-4 being executed?

[@talkingscripture]

Contact me and I’ll send you all kinds of information on this. The evidence is persuasive and if you e already read the notes with this video, contact me on the website attached in the description and I’ll send you more. I wrote a paper on this topic and can hook you up.

[@ApatiEktetheimenos]

@@talkingscripture I'm afraid to confess I know far more about LDS doctrine than the average member. That is a rhetorical question. Persuasion, is simple trickery of the emotions and the heart, you cannot put trust in how you feel. The FACT is, Smith claimed God is a glorified human man, one god among countless gods. And the entire Jewish Culture and History and well as for billions of Christians for 2000 years from the Bible, claim God is an Eternal Spirit and was never a man. You cannot defend this grotesque error in Smith, and the LDS have perpetuated this error for their own business, for 200 years. God was never a man, He is not a man now, and people do not become gods. In a Court Trial for your SOUL, would you believe Smith over the Jews who brought us Scripture and say like Smith did, THEY are wrong? Your salvation matters, and if you do not come to the Christ of the Bible, you are yet damned and deep down, you are insecure about your own salvation. Smith was deceived, do you want to go into damnation? As you offered, let me know, I'll help you find the Scriptures that prove Jesus Christ was the Eternal God who came to earth as one of us. That great sacrifice for GOD to become one of us, is so remarkable, but Smith and the LDS water down the GLORY of God and make Him into some kind of monster.

[@ccversions9882]

I'm sorry. I'm having a hard time understanding your original complaint of no scholarship--your 2nd post is unsourced. For me, providing sources we can check into is essential to scholarship. (I'll accept your reference to 2 Tim. as an example of scholarship in your 1st post.) The download Mike provides in his link has scriptures, footnotes, hyperlinks to Amazon for the mentioned books, etc. I believe the scholarship is there and always has been since this episode dropped. We all have access to the same sources. Mike is right--it all boils down to our understanding of those sources. For example, see "‘Sons of Israel’ or ‘Sons of God’ in Deuteronomy 32:8?" by Michael S. Hauser. It's posted at the logos site. Some Bibles show “sons of Israel” rather than “sons of God” for Deuteronomy 32:8. The oldest Deuteronomy manuscripts use the second phrase. According to Hauser, "'Sons of God' is a textbook example of how later scribes sometimes changed the biblical text in a misguided attempt to 'protect' God’s reputation. Other parts of Deuteronomy were also changed by scribes (e.g., 32:43). When you line up the Dead Sea Scroll reading with the Masoretic Text-the traditional Hebrew text most English translations are based upon-you can see that the original was altered. ... God, of course, doesn’t need to be protected by a zealous scribe or anyone else. Israel’s doctrine was that Yahweh was unique and above all other divine beings..." Amen! It's intriguing he notes that Israel's doctrine taught God is "unique and above -all- other -divine- beings." (Emphasis mine.) As a side note, people consider the human condition so corrupt, if it weren't for 2 John 1:7, I honestly believe some would now teach blasphemy, that Jesus didn't come in the flesh. "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." But moving forward to early Christian belief, in "God in Patristic Thought" (1985) p. 73, George Leonard Prestige characterizes the early Christian church as having a "vigorous soteriological tradition that the destiny of man was to become like God, and even to become deified." Irenaeus (c. 130-c. 202 AD) writes, "We have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods." This teaching even continues into the fourth century with Patristic Father, Athanasius. God is forever Supreme. As Israel's doctrine taught, He is eternally "above all other divine beings." Of course, the Bible outweighs the Patristic fathers. I believe it's possible you and I differ on which manuscript we accept as correct for Deuteronomy 32:8. These matters ultimately come down to a personal decision, based our own understanding. In reading Hauser's article, I see the scholarship as being on the side of the oldest Deuteronomy manuscripts.