EP91: The Devastating Reality of Spiritual Grooming: One Woman’s Story

[@autumnknight694]

Thank you all for your supportive comments. It has been pretty nerve-wracking to let my story fly out into the universe. I want to thank Rebecca and Landon for the thoughtful and respectful way they handled this topic. If you get nothing else from this than a reminder to listen to your internal compass, then my goal is fulfilled. Those who want to be out of the church, it is perfectly ok to get out. Those who want to stay, it is perfectly ok to stay. But I maintain that no one speaks for god and no one has any more power over you than you allow them to have. If the members of the church unite and say, "No more!" to the obedience to authority rhetoric, then maybe things could be healthier for all.

[@Songsofourown23]

Thank you for sharing your story. It reminds me of others and mine. The manipulation men in the church learn and practice. My ex and I met in the church he dated me so I could raise his kids who did not have a mom in the home. Everything he did was to get me to care for his kids while he was gone working Monday to Friday. They learn that relationships are manipulation gaslighting and transactions. I am so sorry for what you experienced I hope you are on the path to healing. And I am glad you got to talk to Landon and Rebecca as they are so kind.

[@senorbb2150]

I'm glad you were able to realize that your own strength and wisdom is plenty enough to guide you through life.

[@sharai73]

Wow girl what a inspiration ❤

[@beverlya.8751]

Your story reminds me so much of mine which lasted 19 years. My ex-husband used to say that he had the priesthood and I was supposed to follow him. I experienced a lot of psychological, emotional, and like you said religious abuse. Later after I had divorced him he started spouting off to me some kind of Revelation that if I didn't let him have full, uncensored access to my down syndrome daughter that I would "lose her in part and then in full". I called the police on him and later got a protection order against him. I totally agree with you that we need to take our power back. Now it has been years and it's interesting that his little Revelation seemed to apply to him because he got really ill and had a lot of health problems that prevented him from having her for months even up to a year at a time not being able to see her. These days it seems he's appreciative of me as her mother and complies with the visitation plan.

[@amy4770]

I am so glad that I stumbled across this episode! Your story really hit me hard. I am so happy that you saw what was happening and took back your power and got out of that relationship safely. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@KnightTime-lo8dc]

As Autumn’s current spouse I have heard this tragic story many times. It is still heartbreaking to hear. I regret that I was part of an organization that cultivates this kind of teaching. I am so proud of her for sharing her story and hopefully helping others that may be in similar situations not feel alone. Thank you Mormonish for being so kind and understanding. Excellent podcast.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

Autumn was so brave! We were just floored as she told her story and it has had such positive feedback. You should be very proud of her as she has highlighted a very important topic!!

[@rf9477]

This is an incredible example of the critical importance of claiming your personal authority. Never, NEVER let another human be between you and God. Thank you for this interview, and thank you, Autumn, for being willing to share your story for the benefit of others. So important!

[@dannylarsen4290]

Autumn was very courageous in sharing her story. I think there are many women who will benefit from her experience. Rebecca and Landon handled the interview sensitively. Blessings!

[@sleepycalico]

That was a riveting story. I was scared by how easily it could have ended with Autumn being "sacrificed." Only the fact that she was still here and narrating her story kept me from panic. "If you don't hear an answer from God to prayer, you get to decide for yourself." I hope that puts a smile on everyone's face and lets them also be empowered.

[@Onlyinohiocringeboss]

Her story is completely insane!!! What a hell is with the 17 year old?! She’s a kid and is that messed up that’s she is trying to be a second wife and step mother to too many kids. This cult breaks women and grooms them to be sheep. This is horrid and I’m so mad for Autumn. That husband needs a hard kick in the balls.

[@letahamilton]

What a story! I am so glad Autumn freed herself from the manipulation!

[@cindihunter9119]

I too, relate to Autumn's story. My ex was always wanting control, and used against me... My needs were not important, and my husband took inventory of how much I ate, tampons used, and being at home was considered, "easy" inspite of have 2 sons, and a requirement of working outside the home. My husband told me that "my worth was my responsibility, and that I had to work, and make my own money." A disaster from the start- I've left the church, and don't trust men, and am still learning how to do-

[@sheliabryant3997]

Words.👽 Fail. 🌹

[@dhscts]

I often wonder about the stories Tammy Daybell dealt with and what she was believing.

[@townsendv58]

Thank you Autumn for sharing her story. A vwry courageous and brave woman.

[@lillianleigh7316]

Her story is much like mine. Today you couldn't catch me alone with a member. I wanted to be just like them then the blinders came off. Religious abuse says it all.

[@donnellallan]

This story resonated in so many ways and strengthened me. When the story got to the part where she packed up the children and left, I literally cheered out loud. Thank you all for bringing this account to life. It is so important! 🙏💜🥰

[@ritamariekelley4077]

You were at the mercy of a narcissistic sociopath, protected by a sick, sick organization. You were trapped for the beautiful mother's love for her children. All that you did is so logical and understandable. I am so very sorry for all of the trauma you suffered, however, you have had a healthy recovery, through hard work, I am sure.

[@dannyallen8210]

Thank you Autum for sharing your story. Very brave to speak out

[@knparker8]

Amazing story. Thanks for being courageous and sharing it. What kind of church has this much power over people? It is frightening to think that this is not an isolated experience.

[@RustyShackleford-zn9tv]

Wow! I found Autumn to be courageous, intelligent, and (ultimately) fortunate! Beyond that I'm just speechless.

[@DeathValleyDazed]

Get, this: at time stamp 0:37.00 (lightning strike-smoke alarm-Satanic possession) my own home power went out. Rather than driving over to the local Mormon bishop for an exorcism I laughed and thanked Gawd for serendipity😂

[@orisonorchards4251]

You are so brave, Autumn! Your story is inspiring!

[@CandlewickLibrary]

This was riveting and so sad. Thank you for sharing.

[@annakonda382]

So brave of Autumn to come out with this horrendous story

[@DancingQueenie]

She saw her hubs courting a woman/girl. I read a polygamist’s wife’s diary- she said she could always tell when he was on the prowl. He’d bathe more often, get spiffed up and make excuses to go out. Some things never change.

[@lorrainemingrino9928]

Thank you both and Autumn what a heartbreaking story and yet beautiful at the same time! I cried and smiled listening to it! It was so powerful! Thank you so much again!

[@pjmccord]

Thank you so much!

[@IvonneChandler]

I loved this story of strength! Autumn, I am so sorry that you had to go through this awful experience, thank you for sharing it with all of us. I hope that this will help some other young women. Once again, thank you very much and I am so glad that at the end, you found a very good man!❤

[@countrywestern2272]

That was so heartbreaking and hard to listen to! Autum was so brave, because those are the kind of stories that need to be told!

[@rebeccainspired]

Rebecca - re: your comment that you hadn't even considered you could not do it. I am younger than you, but I was specifically taught at home and at church that you don't question priesthood. Like if they ask you to take a 4th calling, you have to. The Lord wants that. If I can't handle my home and family and church callings, that's my fault for being human and an enemy to god, etc. I don't know if that teaching was more unique to the ward//stake I grew up in, but I doubt it. I was told that I made a decision before I was born to be in that family at that time, and basically had no reason to make any choices contrary to my leader's counsel.

[@MichelleTischner]

Wow. Fantastic guest and educational.

[@DancingQueenie]

Patriarchal blessings! My byu roommate’s said she’d have sonS and daughterS. They kept having babies until they had at least two of each. Five girls, one boy, two girls, one boy. Waaay more than they wanted or could afford. It broke her physically and mentally. Over a possible typo or accident.

[@patricianoel7782]

OMG! That is tragic. 😮sadness

[@patriciafinn5717]

Im sobbing listening to rhis..❤

[@DancingQueenie]

From what I gathered her hubs had similar delusions to Autumn’s. When he was home, he’d lock himself in his room to study and pray. He demanded silence in a house full of miserable children. He was a lawyer but couldn’t keep a job. It was absolute hell and no way out.

[@letahamilton]

Wow

[@amygreen758]

​@@DancingQueenieuntreated health and mental health is a common theme in Mormonism. I was shocked when becoming an adult and realizing I had several autoimmune diseases that my parents never sought education or treatment for. I thought I was just supposed to be a silent sick person.

[@edsqueenlarene6917]

Thank you for sharing your story! I'm so sorry you had to go through so much torture. Talking about the terrible things is a great way to heal from them. Hope the rest of your life is beautiful!!! ❤

[@nicoleharalson4929]

This was insane. I can't imagine the anguish. Having her new baby ripped from her arms😭

[@DanielFreed-m7b]

Excellent interview! Thank you for having her. So glad she got out and had taken charge of her life

[@rooheath]

Thank you all for this episode - Autumn, you are incredible and brave and I’m so glad you are doing well!! ❤

[@bsteiner4995]

Wow, this was hard to listen to but I’m so glad Autumn found a better place for her family and safety. I completely agree that a major shift in thinking and self empowerment is needed in the church. I just had my awakening this year and am learning to stand up for myself. Thanks for your bravery and example!

[@leem3299]

Wow, thank you. It makes a world of difference to hear from the actual person their story. It condenses years into only an hour, so the full impact is so very minimized, but this is as close as we can get to understanding - and this will help people who are going through similar situations right now. Thank you!

[@charlottebassett7971]

My husband will find the lost records. I just rolled my eyes in my head. He now has the on set of dementia. So we won’t be out digging at night only to find bottle caps.

[@annakonda382]

this should have 100 000 views

[@miriam-moore]

I just actually have to thank my illness with rheumatoid arthritis for making me unattractive enough sexually that I eventually just gave up and went home and have lived a happy life

[@sharkofjoy]

When she talked about feeling like God was sending her a sign when the girl's hair was on fire..... I mean, a person could only think this way when forced into these inhumane and abnormal social circumstances. Just wild how distorted a person's thinking becomes when they are groomed by their culture. I'm so glad she's out and safe.

[@charlottebassett7971]

My husband told me he wished he was sealed to his ex wife too. Well buddy go right ahead. I won’t be here when you get back. I’ll be glad to give him back to her. These men in the church full of crap all in the name of Jesus.

[@kennethd.9436]

50:00 so cruel! I swore several times listening to this episode. This manipulative husband performing the “friend’s ruse.”

[@bendyrland7213]

Personal revelation strikes again. Yikes! Glad you got out.

[@DeathValleyDazed]

There some top quality “shorts” to be cut from this powerful story. All the best to guest and hosts.

[@thedailydump7407]

These interviews with women are so incredibly valuable to me as a Mormon husband learning to treat his wife better. Avoiding the pitfalls of the patriarchal, irrational system that I was raised in. Thank you. I know that many of the church’s teachings are false and/or unhealthy. But I don’t feel like we should leave. But rather stick with it, in a much more casual way, as it changes into something very different and much more healthy. It is the tradition passed down to us, from our parents and I think there is value in that.

[@barryrichins]

Thank to all three of you. Today the rubber hit the road!

[@rockytreadway]

Amazing episode ❤❤❤❤❤

[@kennethd.9436]

1:30:00 very important! Pay attention any person who has not been endowed.

[@Caveman57]

I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone's bad behavior. However, I don't hear anyone talk about how men in the church are also shaped (or groomed) by what they are told and taught as they come up through the church. They are told they should act certain ways. They are told they must fill certain roles of leadership and to think in certain ways. And sometimes, these "certain ways" go bad and move in the wrong direction. The church needs to be held accountable for what it does to its members. Many members go on to live wonderful lives. At the same time, many go off in those wrong directions and have nothing to help them understand or even see their error. (The Tim Ballards, The Daybells, etc, etc.) The church should be looking after those people, not disavowing them. P S. This lady, Autum, was put through hell. She was the victim of a very diluded husband and a very uncaring church. I wish her and her children nothing but health and happiness and mostly healing in life going forward.

[@alamoclayton0306]

Way too many people think they will be one of the two prophets but none of them are rushing to go to Israel right now. It is amazing how everyone wants to be the hero in the latter days but not the person living an ordinary life.

[@SmilingOutdoorGrill-np3xp]

I believe they fill positions not considering their spiritual level, more on the outside works.

[@valentinat3250]

Very slow to get started. I almost left- in the end he was a polygamous masquerading around. So glad Autumn left.

[@leem3299]

What part of the responsibility rests on the church's highest leaders - The temple covenant wording deciders? That is an excellent question. They did not mean harm by the covenant wording -BUT, they have known women in these specific situations for approximately 200 years, and did nothing to help. NOTHING. Only very recently did they improve the wording. Seems to me that they didn't change it out of compassion to help victims - or else they would have changed it many decades ago. They only did it when enough people spoke openly about the wording and many people started seeing the pain, and LEAVING the church with their conscience intact, that the authorities felt it was important to improve the wording. The gratitude for the change in covenant wording does NOT go to powerful authorities! The gratitude goes to people like THIS WOMAN for speaking openly. That's what helps

[@byonnoyb]

And then there was King Henry the VIII... Diddly squat has changed!!!

[@amygreen758]

This would be a powerful documentary. Currently, my 90 yr old father in law is dating and sleeping with other women while his wife is in a retirement home. His bishop knows, yet my FIL is still in good standing in the church as a high priest with a temple recommend. You just don't believe these things until you see it happen in your own family. Thanks for sharing such a difficult past. It is very hard to face our former selves and realize we were so manipulated and powerless under the sneaky control of Mormonism. High demand cult life is so traumatic, especially while raising children and being an isolated stay at home mom.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@amygreen. X 93 🌈🌈🌈

[@DanielFreed-m7b]

I'm enjoying more and more listening to your podcasts

[@sheliabryant3997]

11.7.23. Hello R. & L. & your lovely guest. Only got up enough psycho- logical energy to step carefully into this one. At 15:00, already getting nauseous. However, GREAT, ESSEN- TIAL POINT that changing covenant language is only a superficial "sell" tactic, & "KEEP IT SECRET/SACRED" and as VAGUE as ever. Love the "Same dysfunction, new packaging." This is going to be nasty, isn't it? Still, appreciate her amazing effort and your excellent venue. You offer a welcome and safe landing for the broken courageous. 🌺🌺🌺 Thank you. "God doesn't make typos." No, ma'am, He most assuredly does not. [Regardless of what pronounce- ments the imposters trot out.] Thank you all very much.

[@RebeccaRaven]

What a harrowing story.

[@miriam-moore]

I recently found my BYU journal that I wrote in 1980 and at that time I knew a young lady that was getting ready to marry a man who wanted to join the school of the prophets but he needed to have enough wives if I remember correctly?

[@miriam-moore]

When I was leaving the church, it was because I was so miserable at church. I found help in a book called a course in miracles and another book called the walking people native American oral history by paula Underwood. I was a very solitary person and books for what I was finding to help me understand that the church was an authoritarian system

[@sheliabryant3997]

Landon, God bless your sweet heart; even after all things you have heard before, you look thunderstruck and ready for combat. 💕

[@Arb2b2]

Autumn ❤ I empathize with you. As an immigrant I relied on my husband and everything he told me. He groomed me to be passive and obedient. He was in the bishopric but saw a friend and mother of three girls behind my back. He allowed her to come to my house while I was at work, and pick up my children from school. She groomed them and fracture my family. She all of sudden was always at my home. The stake president told my husband to go to another ward for few weeks because he could not take the sacrament. Then didn't release him because the stake was going to be split. While I kept questioning and neither my husband or bishop or stake president would tell me what was going on. Later the stake president told me to stop because my husband confessed to the priesthood and nothing else was needed. When I asked doesn't the church support the family? Then why aren't you talk to me or both of us? And the stake president told me "sister you get more with honey than vinegar." I lost everything, my family, my friends, and the church. No one would listen to me, they allowed him to continue with another man's wife. He allowed her to groom my children to go against me. My husband used to called my family in my country to tell them I wasn't a good mother. I was alone. My kids believed this other woman and sister in a ward after ours saying "oh I know your mother isn't here, but I can be your mom for now" while I simply was in relief society meeting! When I finally was able to get my bishop to hear me out he "scripturized me". Autum my story might not make sense. It is long and sad, but your story reminds me of mine. I am very sorry for what you went through but ❤ I am happy you have moved on.

[@autumnknight694]

It’s incredible how alone I have felt…and even more incredible how NOT alone I have been. Which, I guess is the whole point of this episode, right?! It’s not just a couple of rogue bad actors. It’s systemic! My heart breaks for everyone who can relate. Hopefully knowing you are not alone will be healing.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@Arb. Astonishing and infuriating. 👽 Just, ..... "GOD-awful." "Sorry" can never be enough.🌺

[@wendybastings8817]

This sounds so similar to Chad and Tammy Daybell plus Lori Vallow

[@wendybastings8817]

I’m curious if Autumn’s ex-husband was raised in the Springville area considering how his beliefs/behaviors resemble other Mormon bad actors

[@boysrus61]

I think the newest change in the temple for women came only after covid and the temples reopening if I am not mistaken.

[@kennethd.9436]

1:18:44 Best happy ending to a tragic story.

[@nettejoost227]

1:15:18 Think Celestial Wife:Husband::Husband:God As you say, it gives him higher authority over yourself and all the children born in the covenant than you have, from the macro to the micro, in a way and to a degree that is hardly comprehensible to a gentile to whom one tries to explain the level of existential threat that a temple wide is under forevermore. When a man with such an endowment talks of Abrahamic sacrifice, it criminally reckless to pretend not to know that every life in his custody is in danger of summary disposal.

[@nettejoost227]

If the ecclesiastical relationship were better governed, this would be malpractice.

[@nancyjohnson8642]

What about that man who threatened pres Hunter in the Marriott Center as he was speaking? was he one of the many Davidic Servants. Please tell your guest we were in the UK last spring - 2023 - attended church 2 weekends in different locations both having JUST shrunken units combining with a second SHRINKING one as the UK membership shrinks drastically. When you get in touch with Peter Blakely (sp) ask him about that!!!!!

[@dlswebsolutions]

Is Autumn still in the church?

[@JoanOfArgghh]

There was a LOT of this in the charismatic movement, sheep-shepherd teachings, and spirit-filled churches. God bless you and give you courage, dear heart. Jesus is the only God who says "come to Me, and I will give you REST." Mormonism was born in perversion and lies against His truth.

[@JoanOfArgghh]

Oh, and avatars are soulless distractions. Could only listen and not watch. What is it with Mormons and avatars? Does that dovetail with the extra-biblical imagery in the BoM?

[@nancyjohnson8642]

What about that man who threatened pres Hunter in the Marriott Center as he was speaking? was he one of the many Davidic Servants

[@kennethd.9436]

1:14:10 deferring your judgement to the church or prophet keeps you uninformed and child-like.

[@mikeboyd3225]

Hey, if people don’t want to live the LDS lifestyle or they’re simply not man enough or woman enough to live it, then they ought to get out. Lots of people can’t or won’t live the gospel.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

Before you comment and make a fool of yourself you should probably watch the episode because from your comment you either haven’t watched the episode or you are an insensitive asshole…so hopefully it’s the first.

[@kenthenderson_kns]

She has crazy voice

[@bendyrland7213]

Pretty sure her voice has been altered so it can't be recognized by anyone listening to the video.

[@echomikekilo63]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with her voice. 🙄

[@ksparks689]

@kenthenderson_kns that’s an unnecessary comment that could be hurtful.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@kent. AT LEAST SHE HAS ONE. Your shallow but crude crack betrays you as a walking texting vacuum.

[@swissbergs]

This is so brave and I’m just so grateful for Autumn sharing her story about religious abuse and trauma. Thanks for taking the action to share your story so that others don’t feel alone and so that others can understand what can happen. 🫶💪

[@swissbergs]

💯 equating the church with god is dangerous