Epic Libertarian Debate Rematch: Sam Seder vs. Libertarian Radio Host

[@donibritts2911]

Oh, "I don't know because I'M not in that situation". That's all you need to hear.

[@someonegetsteve]

Sums up the entire Right wing. Or: "I don't give a shit because I'M not in that situation".

[@justinschacht5325]

no its not all you need to hear

[@robertstan298]

@@justinschacht5325 Oh lawd, the irony in your vague as fuck, minimalistic reply.

[@Zach.C1]

@@justinschacht5325 either you donate everything you own except the clothes on your back to people more poor than you or you’re a fucking hypocrite

[@shake3203]

@@Zach.C1 non sequitur much?

[@dougcasey6117]

This guy I'm sure unintentionally exposes some of the many flaws in capitalism that Marx pointed out

[@skooch5769]

I know this is 4 years old, but any actual conversation about capitalism will inevitably end up at marx. Anyone who has read the text knows how explicitly he lays it out. I dont think you can actually talk about capitalism in 2023 with out talking about Capital. It isnt taught in America for obvious reasons.

[@armstrem]

@@skooch5769 I have a degree in political science from a state university in the US and I can't believe how much Marx is avoided in our education system. Meanwhile, the far right says our universities are turning kids into commies.

[@Thecultofwrestling]

Capitalists understand capitalism in the same way marx did. They just use different words. Like surplus labor value = profit. They know everything Marx said about capitalism

[@armstrem]

I love how we're still fighting for a 15 dollar minimum wage 6 years later...

[@johnross6436]

It’s now 8 years later and we’re still fighting for it…

[@fednanders4572]

not yet.

[@tthayer2]

We're still fighting for people to understand marginal revenue product.

[@frickfrack1725]

Still fighting for 15$ and hour. 1 Amazon warehouse now unionized, keep the fight going team

[@SeaCowsBeatLobsters]

Been fighting so long that $15 is no longer a livable wage LOL

[@nickmathiason2917]

“If I get a 15$ job at Burger King where am I going”?? Umm to the store to buy groceries and basic living needs lmao

[@bandog1361]

Exactly

[@aaaaaaaaaa7699]

Besides that you now have breathing room to at least begin pursuing your life. Most Americans live in big cities and in these cities you can barley survive as a single person on fifteen dollars an hours.

[@user-ki4vn1lj4l]

@@aaaaaaaaaa7699 I think it's sad that "pursuing your life" is widely thought of as "getting a job that pays well". What if I get most of my enjoyment in life from pursuing certain hobbies and spending time with friends and family, and don't care at all about pursuing something just for the money? I see no issue with working in food service forever and putting more value on every part of life that isn't involved with a job

[@aaaaaaaaaa7699]

@@user-ki4vn1lj4l huh so u would rather struggle as a fast-food worker working full-time then be paid properly? If you think working a rush is easy you crazy. You can still live that life and be paid a livable wage. So I guess I just don't understand what you mean?

[@robinsss]

@@aaaaaaaaaa7699 i think the guest's idea of making funding for Social security and medicaid voluntary is a great idea i wish more people like him were at the head of the libertarian party

[@sabin97]

it's quite insightful when a libertarian admits so openly that he's ok with someone having to live in a homeless shelter while working for him full time...

[@bryantppierce]

Wow, did he really just relegate people making minimum wage to homeless shelters saying their jobs aren't supposed to provide them with a living wage???I hope you never lose YOUR job and need a hand up dude...

[@jayburdification]

Yup and Sam never even asked where the money from the homeless shelter comes from? What if there aren't any volunteers helping the homeless?

[@44slack]

+Thomas Buchovecky So you did it yourself and therefore everybody can do the same. Have you ever thought of those who can't do the same. Are you aware that some people do not have the stamina, physical or mental strength to do the same? Forgive me if you were being sarcastic.

[@alecjordan6100]

DiGeronimo - "I don't know what efficacy means" pretty much sums up his whole performance in this debate...

[@WXVA9]

Yeah, that was cringeworthy.

[@alecjordan6100]

***** Yeah, you're shocked because you can't read me based on my favorites list. It's not going to tell you what to make of me. Some of those vids were added over two years ago and some I haven't even watched. I added those videos to see arguments for different points of view because I used to be an an-cap and I wanted to explore other modes of thought. The fact of the matter is even if DiGeronimo agrees with an economic view that might be ideal (An-Cap) he isn't explaining it well because he lacks basic command of the arguments and basic command of the adult english language and he's making an-caps look bad. Now if you're so interested, I think a mixed economy is best personally. but at any rate, you haven't figured me out by snooping in my favorites list (which I just happened not set to private because who cares anyway?) you would have a better idea by challenging me on issues, like whether or not DiGeronimo knows what he's talking about.

[@stirthepot8892]

+Alec Jordan well played, sir

[@jeffbrown-hill7739]

Yes!

[@jeffbrown-hill7739]

"What's Aleppo?"

[@williamjameslehy1341]

'I don't know because I'm not in that situation' Right-libertarianism in a nutshell.

[@smaakjeks]

More accurately: 'I don't *care* because I'm not in that situation'

[@TheReddaredevil223]

"Let's say, hypothetically, it's determined 100 years from now that the killings the US government are doing right now in the Middle East are unjustified" I literally rofled at that

[@thematman92]

As a veteran I realized how evil that war was while I was in Afghanistan. This man is delusional.

[@ianbridge3270]

"Regulations under Obama are stifling private businesses." "There are less regulations under Obama than under Bush." "Well regulations make miniscule differences."

[@nukiradio]

Ah yes. The strawman gish galloped away on his highhorse

[@ade8890]

@@nukiradio Looks like moving the goal post to me.

[@kodabro4322]

@@nukiradio you win the internet

[@hashtagunderscore3173]

“Fewer”

[@wildheartmustang]

16:30 "I don't know cos I'm not in that situation" *Sam's head explodes*

[@primal9238]

Basically he just wants corporate slavery. "If you're good and talented work slave maybe you'll make more than minimum wage one day." So wait... I just need to work for 20% of the minimum wage to one day possibly make more than $15 per hour? If companies are paying $3 per hour do you think they're going to jump to $30 per hour? Why wouldn't it go $3.50, $4, $4.50, $5? How many years until you even get raises to $10 per hour? I mean with these experiences being so valuable maybe we should PAY colleges/universities to get an education? Wait we do? Why do we get paid for working then? We should pay them for the life experience!

[@wethepeople2023]

No he doesn’t. And you’ll always fail economics if you can’t process information.

[@29035ft]

i literally choked when he said if we put effort into boycotting mcdonald’s they’d go out of business

[@firstlast9916]

@Colby 95% of business fail in the first five years. No boycott needed. Practically no business survive over 30 years. Less than 1%. McDonald’s is a franchise anyway. The franchise owners are usually former restaurant owners that accumulated some money to buy a franchise. Ray crock has been dead for 37 years. He is not making a cent underground from McDonald’s.

[@serversurfer6169]

If people stopped buying McDonald's, cops would start showing up unannounced with Happy Meals and Square scanners. 😜

[@hentia2]

It seems to me that libertarians philosophy boils down to a very simple thing. " Don't touch my monies"

[@beansrice5398]

Jarrid Gable Then call in to Sam Seder's show and argue your case.

[@AR-jt2ux]

Its more like i dont want to be a part of the functional society. But make sure the police, fire fighters, and military keep protecting me.

[@iamtrulyfree]

No it comes down to the non aggression principle. You cannot initiate force against peaceful people. Government spends 4 trillion a year and has put future generations in debt over 20 trillion dollars. When someone earns their money, they spend it wiser. Government doesn’t earn anything, they steal which is why they waste money and spend like psychopaths.

[@MrCoryde]

Ya, because I earned it, not you.

[@MrCoryde]

You can always tell who the intellectually inferior one is, their the ones chuckling in the background.

[@MichaelDucharme1]

I've been working backwards in Sam's debates with libertarians from 2020. What an arc!

[@michaelbatey5861]

Same from 2022. Aged like fine wine.

[@armstrem]

I feel like an entire channel could be dedicated to Sam's debates with libertarians. I get if people don't like Sam or MR, but holy shit, how do you not appreciate how magical it is that he can reduce a libertarian to a crying infant in a matter of minutes?

[@khbgkh]

This guys is an idiot. 3 minutes in

[@TimiTamminen]

Same, it's like watching Mozart composing his catalogue in reverse

[@TheOrthodoxMoor]

Same, since late 2023....My jaw is still on the floor from some of the responses he gets back from the callers... I'm a Libertarian and I appalled by the weak arguments the other Libertarians are giving...Sam is well polished in his arguments 100%.

[@cyborganic99]

"Yeah. I'm sitting in my business office right now." -Sam Seder

[@pablosabhlok]

Yeah but how many unskilled young people does he hire (if he hires anyone at all)? Zero. He's not affected by the minimum wage as most of the people he hires are high skilled anyway.

[@adrians9239]

@@pablosabhlok he hires interns

[@ivandafoe5451]

@@pablosabhlok So that somehow disqualifies him from having an opinion on the matter? What qualifies you?

[@StoveToTheFace]

@@pablosabhlok I don't know how to respond to this... its not true and also dumb in concept. are you saying that because he wants smart complement people he's bad? I know I'm late to this community but your logic is so crazy I wanna understand it

[@frank6842]

@@pablosabhlok if you have to pay your workers so little in order to make a profit as a business then you shouldn't exist as a business. My tax dollars are supposed to prop up terrible businesses that make profit off of the backs of workers.

[@DerikSchneider]

Not sure if Sam Seder is debating a Libertarian here. Or a Conservative Republican from about twenty-five years ago who didn't want big government. In his life but wasn't anti-government all together that a lot of Libertarians sound like today.

[@ilikeme1234]

I think libertarians must all live in Mayberry. Every business owner is just some hokey honest fella trying to make an honest buck in their world

[@llamasarus1]

Most business owner took out a loan from a bank a need to make a profit to pay it back or liquidate and suffer reputational damage.

[@enginerdy]

@@llamasarus1 Go into business for yourself and you will quickly discover that people/companies big and small of weak moral character don't like to pay their bills

[@llamasarus1]

@@enginerdySo is every business owner of strong moral character supposed to like paying their bills then? I don't follow.

[@enginerdy]

@@llamasarus1 "don't like" is a euphemism for "pays late and sometimes just doesn't". This is often in proportion to how large or how much power the company believes they have over you

[@enginerdy]

@@llamasarus1 And sometimes rather than "taking a risk on a loan", they contract your services and use your work as speculative value, then when they are unsuccessful the bill goes unpaid. Donald Trump has enjoyed doing this to construction contractors many times over the years. It's morally vacuous and a common practice among the MBA/capital "B" Business Types. If I deliver, I should not be signing on to YOUR risk, but often that is what happens when you do business with these people. Unfortunately you don't find out *who* they are until things have gone sideways.

[@evlmpyr]

Caller just wants socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.

[@blntfngr]

“A minimum wage of $15/hour would cripple these businesses…we shouldn’t eat at McDonald’s anyhow…I go to a local burger joint around the corner from me who pays their employees $15/hour.” ~ Matt 😂😂

[@julianjanssen5499]

"I want to pay $5 an hour to a worker to live a great life in a homeless shelter." What a sociopath!

[@victorvanvolt8425]

And after 10 years of "experience" they will get 15$ and hour , then another 10 year to get 20$ an hour, and then 10 years of that to 30$ an hours just to have the "privilege" of making a median life wage 17.5$ an hour.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

This guy would fit right in as an executive at Walmart. It's not just how you put it, but "I want the government to subsidize my low wages by funding homeless shelters"

[@rsr789]

He's a full-blown psychopath and needs to be removed from society and turned into fertilizer.

[@NeoRipshaft]

"OK - I see your facts and they make my position look bad, but how about this thought experiment!?" FOR AN HOUR.

[@nukiradio]

Ben Shapiro's son has been found

[@CutThroatJuggalo]

Exactly the same as the first debate lol

[@pwh567]

Literally

[@Jen-cc9xk]

Every libertarian who comes to debate Sam gets gobsmacked by the most basic questions. It's as if no one has ever questioned their views before. Even the guys who are "experts" in it, not just the random callers. How do they manage to stay in such perfect bubbles?

[@karlawade3346]

Libertarian philosophy: "I want be able to pay my employees slave wages... because freedom!!!"

[@Spencerwalker21]

Also freedumb to rob taxpayers for my workers food stamps

[@serversurfer6169]

"They'll volunteer too, once they get hungry enough."

[@justatiger6268]

20:40 Sam is right of course. Before child labour laws, children's small hands were perfect for fixing machines in cotton factories - their tiny fingers were also expendable.

[@jeffbrown-hill7739]

This guy's (Matt DiGeronimo) internal inconsistencies are hilarious and mind-blowing.

[@Lipemsa]

This is like listening to a (dumb) 10 year old learning about government.

[@JoeDirtisawsome]

"Mcdonalds cant afford a 15$ minimum wage, but this local burger joint can afford it"- Libertarian caller

[@Zach.C1]

Nice to see that communists hate poor people so much that they want to use the government to completely destroy ALL middle class and poor owned businesses that act as the competition against giant mega corps, funny how whenever commies try to help poor people they just end up creating more poor people and centralizing the wealth into the hands of an even smaller amount of people

[@JoeDirtisawsome]

@@Zach.C1 1. Im not a communist, im a market socialist 2. i never said that i wanted to destroy smaller businesses. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

[@nickmendoza8878]

@@Zach.C1 you really thought you "owned the lib" right there 🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@HeathWatts]

@@Zach.C1 Nice to see that you're dumb enough to claim that those who want to lift up workers' lives are like Stalin. Of course, you have no idea what socialism or communism are, or you wouldn't make such stupid claims.

[@XXCoeusXX]

@@Zach.C1 This reeks of Copy-Pasta as it seems like you misunderstood the OP. You must have gone to a private school, since public education is totally abhorrent to your beliefs. How's that privatized education working out for ya there bud?

[@JohnLemieux]

"I don't know what 'efficacy' means" I like this guy, he's honest.

[@GHOSTPLANEtable]

About words he doesnt know and that's it.

[@sivervipa]

This is the difference between a libertarian and a conservative differ on. Libertarians will eventually be honest in a debate. They eventually turn their filter off. Conservatives have to lie or they will be completely exposed as just protecting their in-group.

[@johnberk9315]

"how would you live on $3 an hour?" "well I don't know." self-awareness has left the chat

[@komlat253]

Only people with capital or who have inherit capital will be libertarians. They just say f the rest of us who would have nothing

[@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810]

It’s telling this libertarian knows his system of government would lead to lower wages. Instead of things magically getting better because government is out of the way. He’s arguing for things to be worse for people in America.

[@firstlast9916]

I lived on $4 per hour when I was 14 years old. Lived with my parents. That job taught me a lot about work ethic. Which is much more valuable than the money.

[@Zach.C1]

@@komlat253 I’d be nice if this was true but unfortunately a lot of poor people in America support lower taxes and less regulation on mega corporations because a lot of them genuinely believe that if mega corporations increase there wealth that it will trickle down to the poor as long as the poor person works hard, isn’t lazy and is willing to pull em up by the bootstraps and if your currently poor than that means you’re just lazy and are looking for government handouts, “if you can’t feed your kids than why should I have to pay for them to eat” is the mentality a lot of these people have. More concerned with making 50k after taxes instead of 46k after taxes rather than being concerned with American children starving to death cause “if there parents can’t feed em than they shouldn’t have had kids”

[@Zach.C1]

@@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810 well yea of course, in his mind, It’d be better to have one human being control literally everything on the planet while literally everyone else lives in abject poverty because the alternative would require taxation and taxation is theft which means it’s bad and we shouldn’t do it even if it resulted in the vast majority of humans on the planet getting to have high standards of living. He’s essentially arguing that even if his system just resulted in monarchies and feudalism it wouldn’t matter because in order to stop feudalism from happening you would have to steal someone else money or commit violence against them. In his mind if one person has 70 trillion apples but the average person only needs 100 apples in there lifetime to be reasonably happy, and you have 1000 people with only 5 apples each, even though you could give all 1000 people 1000 apples each and the guy with trillions of them would still have millions of times more apples than everyone else, you should be allowed to take any of his apples cause “tHeYrE mY aPPLes” libertarians are essentially just 8 year old children whos parents never taught them to share

[@terriej123]

"Let's not be too hard on the nazi grunts now" lmfao

[@thematman92]

One hell of an opener. Really good setup for "let the guy I pay $5 an hour live in a homeless shelter"

[@mattmeistrell3082]

I would argue that one gains zero skills at a minimum wage job and people who accept this kind of job have no other choice and cannot be without income for any period of time. They are stuck there with little prospect of anything better. Starvation wage jobs existing decreases economic mobility.

[@nukiradio]

Well, applying reason tends to outdo most of the old libertarian arguments

[@angryandy2000]

Where does Sam get these fools

[@AmericanResponses1]

Both of these guys are class A dumbasses.

[@robertstan298]

@@AmericanResponses1 Your comment is a class A+++ enlightened dumb fuck line.

[@nielsjensen4185]

Because fools like to try and justify their foolish beliefs by "destroying" their opponent as it feels good to "win."

[@airthrow]

He acts like showing his own internal logic is inconsistent is a "gotcha" instead of just proving that his ideas are all wrong and dumb.

[@PowersFamily2011]

Minimum wage should be 20 dollars per hour in this country.

[@kathykelly5930]

In other words, a whole lot of ppl don't deserve jobs because your such a nice guy. I think all ppl should be nice, I guess I should just declare it by law and it'll happen.

[@Odysseus087]

kathy kelly are you aware that most the countries that offer a higher minimum wage than the united states also have lower unemployment?

[@josephscott3096]

Lmao, where's the money going to come from?

[@kathykelly5930]

Odysseus087 Not really true. Depending on what time your looking at. Right now maybe, but before our recession, no. Youth unemployment has been notoriously high in Europe for decades. Thats who is most affected by minimum wage laws.

[@kathykelly5930]

***** No thats circular logic. More ppl won't have jobs because your raising the price of employment. And even if ppl don't lose jobs, prices will just rise because of the extra money the working poor have and employers trying to recoup losses. Coercion isn't sharing.

[@sharper68]

Sam you destroyed this guy. He had nothing! No data, no valid ideas on the ramifications of his proposed policy or how it would work in the real world. He was inconsistent with no indication of an adherence to principle in his ideas and nothing to back up his spin. Just like the ideas of every libertarian I have ever seen speak the enactment of his policy would never survive contact with reality as something positive and he had absolutely nothing to even suggest it would.

[@sharper68]

***** I agree my taxes should not be paying to kill others. That being said that act does not invalidate the collection of taxes or the existence of our society. When we as a collective whole are responsible for bad actions in our name is our responsibility to speak out and see that policy changed. Not paying taxes does not solve the issue as it is not taxes but bought and paid for leadership who are stepping into wars for profit that are the issue. Take out the incentive for our leaders doing the will war lobby and more of your taxes can be spent where they are supposed to, here at home.

[@sharper68]

***** Well that is your position but I am not one to cut off my nose to spite my face. When you have an element that is part of a large system that is broken you do not throw away the whole thing to fix it. You may be right that we have slipped off the rails and am inclined to agree. That being said I am not ready to write off the entire thing until real effort is made to it back on track. I see no advantage in chaos before every avenue to fix what we have is explored and we still have paths to do just that.

[@patriciamcdermott2761]

Where do fast food workers go from $15 an hour? They go to $20 an hour which is what fast food workers are paid in Denmark.

[@KennyTew2]

How are people supposed to live on $3 an hour, answer, 'it doesn't affect me so I don't fucking care if others can afford to live' Libertarianism in a nutshell.

[@zwergie256]

+KennyTew2 Let them eat cake!

[@dustinallen4142]

Would you rather have a homeless man starve for supposedly lets say a dollar under the current MW, or force a company to not be able to afford a such a man to even work because if they hired him they'd loose money so they don't hire him, because you are just so "compassionate" you rather have a low skilled worker not find a job than have him work for something YOU declare not good enough. Even though he could easily work his way up. Now that's what I call cowardly.

[@dustinallen4142]

The "livable wage" problem comes from the money being unstable, and the fed litteraly scamming us causing inflation. High compulsory taxation also hurts the poor. two things liberals don't give a shit about. They just want to seem like they are compassionate but in reality they are no better than the greedy fear mongering tyrants that use the poor as an excuse to steal more money for their own self interested bureaucracy that literally does not give a fuck about the poor because they are not accountable to us in any measurable or tangible way. Not to mention those policies always HURT the poor. You are not compassionate. Stop hiding behind that pathetic facade to inhabit your own brand of collectivist authoratianism because you want the moral high ground while remaining in a state of complete economic knowlage. deficiency

[@zwergie256]

Dustin Allen What's "knowlage deficiency"?

[@outdoorsman715]

+KennyTew2 you're fucking ignorant. if you don't have skills to give yourself a living wage, that's your fault. if its not your fault, charity will help you with opportunities to build your skills. stop trying to justify theft. its fucking ridiculous

[@herethere2091]

Literally been talking about a $15 minimum wage since 2010 wtf

[@Blockustomz2]

That's it, I'm getting a Sam Seder membership!!.. I've seen way to many of these great videos... No one is messing with Sam in debates, or even his informative videos. Keep it up MR!!

[@kathykelly5930]

Molyneux destroyed him, Seder mostly picks out dumb libertarian's to debate

[@silat13]

kathy kelly Maybe on your planet but on earth it didnt go down that way.

[@kathykelly5930]

silat13 Sam's arguments basically boiled down to without gov't roads wouldn't exist and everyone would murder each other. He seemed completely ignorance of plenty of history supporting the great impacts private industry have had in what is usually thought of as public services.

[@StunnedByStupidity]

kathy kelly Somalia - QED - moron...

[@sajfen]

StunnedByStupidity yes a failed state is an awesome example of the greatness of states ...

[@StunnedByStupidity]

This libertarian guy is like the typical Christian, picking and choosing what he wants from the ideology. In BOTH cases this is disingenuous and in BOTH cases you cant call yourself one of them, if you are rejecting what they say. If you can pick and choose where God was right and wrong in the bible then why bother with the bible at all? If regulations are allowed in capitalism then they are allowed to be negotiated for EVERYTHING, why all this bullshit about 'freedom' and the 'free market'? Both Christianity and libertarians are filled with authoritarians, this guy would be considered a libertarian/christian in name only to these totalitarians. Its always the same with libertaians they are shallow simplistic thinkers and when this is exposed SUDDENLY they start to redefine whaat a libertarian is. Its exactly the same in christianity where factionalism is rife - they all CLAIM the one true christianity even when they directly disagree with oneanother and what the bible says....

[@kdawg717]

Uhh Mad Max beyond Thunderdom called , they want their libertarians back.

[@5TailFox]

Yup. Along with every Fallout game.

[@KznnyL]

Amen. That is the perfect description of the world under Libertarianism.

[@johnholland9371]

Can't we get BEYOND thunderdome?

[@sassy_sasarai4090]

The "opportunity" to work for 3 dollars.

[@karlawade3346]

Wow, this guy is super evasive when he knows he's wrong and can't give an answer to support his ideas (which was all the time). He's giving advice on the radio?! That's terrifying. 😳

[@CjLegend]

Then do something about it since its so terrifying, Karla

[@PR--un4ub]

@@CjLegend Speak up, I can't hear you.

[@Jefferson-ly5qe]

Standard libertarian debate tactics

[@chrismcg69]

"I can pay a guy $5 an hour and he can live in a homeless shelter". Sam: "You want a guy to live in a homeless shelter so you can pay him $5 an hour?" ....."That's not what I said"....

[@ScotlandTV]

46th minute - "I don't know what efficacy means..." Matt, what the fuck?

[@Sprite_525]

The segue between “go easy on Nazi soldiers” to “minimum wage debating” at the 6minute mark was comedy gold

[@deadmeat1471]

'If i have to pay my employees the new minimum wage ill be out of business or I wont hire' 1 year into minimum wage raise... 'I still hire people and im not out of business' This is the story of the minimum wage rise and business.

[@aisjay1204]

'Okay, *nervous laugh* okay, then _I've_ broken the law.' - Matt DiGeronimo, aware he was being recorded

[@philipgardner5171]

Sam is a literal massive brain and he has an answer for literally any question I wish to be more like sam

[@smtpgirl]

UPS truck loaders is also a union job I worked at UPS during this time

[@gurugasch]

Libertarian thinker: "The decision to have a family is a decision, right?!" Yeah, I did a thorough cost-benefit analysis before I decided I wanted to marry my wife and have children with her...

[@iamtrulyfree]

You definitely should have...

[@gurugasch]

@@iamtrulyfree The point is that you shouldn't have to. Do you honestly think the ability to have a loving family should be inextricably tied to wealth?

[@PR--un4ub]

@@gurugasch Nu.

[@mattizzle81]

@@gurugasch Not necessarily tied to wealth, but definitely tied to the ability to make wise decisions in life and not completely mess your finances up by your own doing, yes.

[@bitchywoman]

@@mattizzle81 so much for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.. apparently that is an earned thing now.

[@nicobeck42069]

"I'd be happy to hire an unskilled, uneducated worker for 5$ an hour" guy basically wants slaves.

[@Lucky-nv2ph]

And thats is the giffs of it, these libatarians just want a neo-feudal society

[@vincesmith2499]

If they agree to it, it's not slavery. Nobody is harmed by a voluntary agreement. Therefore, it should not be illegal. Freedom rules!

[@PR--un4ub]

@@vincesmith2499 Hi, libertarian.

[@HoneyGlzedHam]

Hello from the future. Minimum wage is still $7.25 Fast food already moving towards automation. Thank God we didn't raise the minimum wage AMIRITE???

[@nukiradio]

Nope..still poor

[@ohthelushlife]

Wow...I've never really known what Libertarians think, but I've been bingeing on these debates and wow, their cognitive dissonance, myopia, ignorance and general naïveté is astounding.

[@ace9resistance]

Yep their theories sounds like fox news sound bites. When you put any pressure on any of their points they become flakes.

[@robinsss]

'''''''''wow, their cognitive dissonance, myopia, ignorance and general naïveté is astounding.''''''''''' yes democrats like Sam should think more logically

[@PR--un4ub]

@@robinsss Way to quote mine. "A. G." was clearly referring to libertarians.

[@AlohaSnackbar]

56 minutes in - the solution is not less regulations the solution is to get money out of politics so we get fairer regulations that will subsidize small business and promote growth instead of paying the costs of walmart and mcdonalds. he has it completely the wrong way around.

[@ergifem]

jesus that matt guy was friggin just omg that was so amazing. I really think he had no idea what he was talking about.

[@PowerfulWarrior69]

You know, I have a little respect for this guy. He clearly just hasn’t thought about this stuff in as much depth as he believes he has. But compared to other libertarians, he carried like an actual adult here. So kudos to that

[@WAAAAAAAAAAAY]

"We need to get really remedial here, Matt" - ha Libertarians - please please please keep phoning into this show. It's amazingly entertaining to hear your economic ideas out loud, they fall apart instantly. Also, I have to say that Matt's argument against the minimum wage is totally wrong - there is a wealth of evidence to suggest that an increase in the minimum wage would be beneficial to the overall economy of the country......who does Matt think spends money in the capitalist marketplace? It's not the C.E.O's and millionaires.... Matt's got no answers to the minimum wage problem in America, all he can say is "don't shop there", which is wholly inadequate as a debate point. Keep up the good work, Sam :)

[@seanwjones07]

Damn Sam is making a mockery out of this Libertarian's logic because he is sounding dumber by the minute and constantly contradicting himself lol.

[@mnemonija]

Hehe, college students get a good job cause they spent 4 years at Harvard and have some grades to show for it. Don't know if spending 4 years with a hobo unable to pay them more than $5/hour is as prestigious.

[@iamalongusername]

Minimum wage laws can help many businesses. If you’re a business that wants happier, better workers, so you want to pay them more, but then maybe you can’t compete with another business that doesn’t. If you legislate minimum wages, and the other business has to pay their workers more,then maybe you can.

[@JohnLemieux]

BTW, $10/hour in 1992 is $16.61 in 2013 dollars.

[@AcceptSolitude]

Fuck me. I wish I had a job that payed that much.

[@panama2468]

Got em

[@jmagloire]

Sam is so good at making these guys argue against their own points.

[@miankhoji]

Business owner hires the least number of workers necessary to meet the demand for his product. Whatever the minimum wage, he will not hire an additional worker if he does not need an extra worker. If the demand for his product falls, and he can meet the lower demand with fewer workers, he will lay off some of his workers, whatever the minimum wage. Higher minimum wage could result in lower profit for the business, or the need to adopt new technology, if that is available and cost effective, or he can increase the price. (He will be on the same level playing field with other businesses because they will all be paying the same minimum wage )or he must sell or close his business, if it is not a viable business. why should labor be asked to make less than a living wage to keep the profits high and comfortable.

[@jacquescelliers6644]

+Roguemember I am really not sure what you are trying to say or what point you are trying to make. Can you clarify what you mean by "employers still demand the same amount". The same amount of what?

[@miankhoji]

I did not forget, I specifically stated that every business will be subject to the law, and the playing field will remain the same. If the price of labor (wage) goes up, the demand for labor will remain the same, if the demand for products remains the same. Demand determines employment.

[@jefftribiano1875]

Eric Donn this is a perfect example of the propaganda you learned in school. This is such cookie cutter nonsense You ought to be ashamed of yourself. I'd like to be charitable and say you were doctrinated but the way you write seems to me it's just plain old low IQ.

[@Danielle-zq7kb]

Exactly! The minimum wage levels the playing field!

[@MarkStoverPiX]

Jeff Tribiano ... Sam told you the data dude. You got something to share?

[@NeoRipshaft]

omfg this is radio host!? I had this running in the background while I played some Path of Exile, and figured it was one of the spectacularly ignorant randoms that calls to defend libertarianism. I mean I shouldn't be shocked to alt-tab to find... _this..._ but I am.

[@damonwolf120]

Whew! That was difficult to listen to. Nice job Sam.

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

I love how over the years Sam has become a better libertarian than most libertarians. He’s a small business owner, has built and invested capital, and obeys the principle of property rights despite his large army of bloodthirsty mercenaries.

[@thewerewolf6258]

The reality that I believe gets missed in these debates is that the government sets the rules for the market and then authorizes the formation of companies to operate within the market. If your business cannot survive in the market conditions then, according to market economics, you are supposed to close up shop and get out of the way so someone else can try. So if your business cannot survive because the minimum wage is too high then get out of the way. 'My business can't survive unless I hire children so we need to get rid of that barrier' Isn't really different than: 'My business can't survive unless I hire workers for $3/hr so we need to get rid of that barrier.' OR 'My business can't survive unless I can dump my poisonous waste in the river, so we need to get rid of that barrier.'

[@ilikeme1234]

Exactly... Plus the simple fact that we subsidize any business that doesn't pay a livable wage. Whether it is through government programs or the libertarian wet dream of voluntary charity or family support..

[@ace9resistance]

Perfect.

[@newtagwhodis4535]

This man would crumble to tears and revelations the world over if he had to live one month at $5 an hour wage.

[@ambersmith3328]

Minimum wage was meant to be a living wage xD

[@FallenFrost]

This guy just stated the exact problem we have with labor in this country. Businesses pay such a low wage that there employees have to use government programs to stay afloat. Essentially meaning we subsidize businesses in this country so that the owner can make thousands while their employees can’t afford to live. What a joke.

[@showertile]

"I don't think I'm being inconsistent by drawing a line" Yes that's exactly the problem with libertarianism. You just want to move your lines to favor corporations and the powerful.

[@subversivelysurreal3645]

No Nazi was ever punished , much less murdered, for not killing non combatants, btw-whether it was marching people into the forest or anyone who worked for the SS and its ‘other countried subsidiaries’.

[@russellh9894]

33:27 His unpaid internship story completely undermine his entire argument. He had a job that paid him enough to live off of. This allowed him to take an unpaid internship to learn the skills needed later in life.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

Wasn't there some kind of study on German infantry, and the psychology of the soldiers? Wasn't there a study that plot in the spread of people who reluctantly pulled the trigger during Slaughters, versus those who didn't pull the trigger at all, versus those who seemingly Relish in the killings? I could swear I've heard this information cited somewhere, and if it's true it refutes the notion that most of the Nazis were just waiting for the first Defector. That a lot of them actually enjoyed being a monster, and that the number of people who were reluctant or just biding their time was significantly smaller

[@pooshoveler]

so he wants us all to subsidize his cheap labor. shocker.

[@ValliW]

"If we all put forth the effort, we could put McDonald's out of business." So you would rather see hundreds of thousands of people jobless rather than give them a livable wage?

[@nukiradio]

Ahhh isee, veddivell, veddivell

[@DrFunk-rk6yl]

Wellll...he did say there are homeless shelters for them.

[@evlmpyr]

Why can't anyone ever admit they are WRONG!?!?!

[@apocalypsemeow7966]

I'm watching the libertarian play list backwards from May 2024. I'm only about 10 minutes in and it's already a bad sign that he doesn't understand what's wrong with allowing ten commandments monuments on federal property, then pretends it's just atheists who are trying to fix that. People who value secularism can be atheists, Hindus, Muslims, Jewish, Buddhists, other Christians and anything else. It doesn't look inclusive at all to have fundamentalist Christian monuments on the court houses or other federal buildings of a secular nation. He wants to distance himself from Christian dominionists, but then contradicts himself moments later. He's willfully dishonest and I haven't even arrived at his libertarian trash yet.

[@tizodd6]

This was like watching Betty White in boxing match with Mike Tyson. Poor DiGeronimo was so outclassed.

[@winkweindel]

this guy bit off more than he can chew

[@anthonydelfino6171]

It's ironic that he says that current minimum wage jobs are dead end jobs that lead to just other minimum wage jobs with no skill training, but somehow his $2/hr job suddenly WILL provide skill training?

[@firstlast9916]

I had a $4 per hour job. It was a good start when I lived with my parents. Now I’m at $50 per hour.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

@@firstlast9916 and considering how long it's been since $4 was a legal wage, you're telling on yourself on how disconnected you are with how much buying power this has. It's been a long time since the late 80s, and nowadays you can't live on the $4/hr wage you made let alone the $2 wage this guy is proposing. And spoiler alert, most minimum wage workers these days aren't kids at home living with their parents.

[@firstlast9916]

@@anthonydelfino6171 why would anybody move out of their parents house if they are making minimum wage? If you are dumb enough to try to live on your own on minimum wage then you deserve to suffer. Those are the consequence of not improving your resume or getting into an apprenticeship. If you didn’t know about trade schools or engineering schools or nursing schools or medical assisting then you deserve to live with your dumb parents till they die.

[@robertcarlclayton7724]

Every Libertarian I see speak goes off the rails within 5 minutes. All it takes is asking them to logically explain a statement they've made.

[@SadisticSenpai61]

My first job was at a gas station and I've since worked at 3 different gas stations - I never got paid minimum wage. The wage competition for workers can be pretty fierce depending on where you are. And if a corner gas station goes out of business, so what? They go out of business all the time! That's part of capitalism. If you can't afford to pay your workers, maybe your business should go out. It's sad, but that's capitalism. I never understand why ppl who are so gung-ho about capitalism seem to think that businesses should be propped up and subsidized when they clearly aren't making enough money to stay open. So what if they have to raise their prices? That's part of capitalism!

[@jaronfeld123]

I dislike that they were laughing at him in the beginning for saying that it’s very likely that they would have been Nazis or Nazi sympathizers in 1930s/40s. That’s a huge philosophical issue amongst people. And the truth is that if you were there, it’s statistically likely you would sympathize with Nazis. Sorry, sucks to hear. But that’s simply statistically likely

[@CharlesAmericanus]

I'm so impressed, Sam absolutely destroyed this guy the first time. He's legitimately improved, although he basically had to all but renounce his libertarianism to do that lol.

[@qbytx]

'i dont know what efficacy means' how surprising

[@ally11488]

Richard Feynman once remarked, "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics." The same could be said of libertarianism.

[@racerx3823]

Great debate, but I wish you would have brought up Glass Steagle and how it helped to maintain regulations and at the same time creating the most prosperous era in America history.

[@monkeymadness1011]

I have to say on the whole nazi issue at the start I think Sam was wrong. Evil is in the situation you are put in not the person you are and psychological studies like the Milgram experiment and Stanford prison experiment show this. I felt like Sam was kind of laughing at the guy for saying he didn’t know what he would have done but I think that’s arrogant and a misinformed understanding of the psychological literature on the nazis and evil.

[@Weeping_Somnambulist]

"Maybe water and pants aren't the best example" omg this is so fucking hilarious.

[@kurry89]

WALTER BLOCK! WALTER BLOCK! Bring Walter back for more talks....because this was one of the worst defenses of libertarianism I've heard to date. Tsk tsk Matty. Sounded like he was trying to read someone else's outline on why the minimum wage is bad.

[@blader45bc]

Walter is amazing. He won his debates even though Sam kept cutting him off and switching subjects ( right after Sam interjected his weaselly comments.)

[@mikefrey07]

This. Is. Gold. Everyday. Every weekday I listen to the show and occasionally hear this outro and finally hearing the full context of the interview? Amazing.

[@chriserdwins137]

I'd say he's right with the first piece. We believe the best in ourselves, but it usually is unfounded. Look to the psychology experiments done on this. Stanford Prison Experiment. Landis Facial Experiment. The Third Wave. Or worse yet Milgram's Experiment. I would say he is more correct than you on this.

[@PR--un4ub]

Nah.

[@cmack17]

I like to use words and phrases that have no actual meaning. ~M. Geronimo

[@alexjaybrady]

28.30 people should work at 5bucks an hour and go to live in homeless shelter, simple!

[@lovebigpelicankocks2071]

Zx Spectrum You wouldn't even have a job.

[@religionishipocrisy]

OMG, that ending! 1:00:54 was inspired. I laughed so hard. Good stuff.

[@douglaspearch3813]

A 30-year-old working for a pittance and living in a homeless centre - What a wonderful world these Libertarians envisage 😦

[@evlmpyr]

The Burger King job is considered an unskilled job. Caller sort of implied that burger Kings basic job is a skilled position. Even most gm factory jobs are considered unskilled. Most of those jobs are on the line. No different that flipping burgers. They just put in three screws on the driver's visor, but for $30 an hour. Unskilled.

[@robinsss]

there are low wage low skill jobs and high wage low sill jobs when did he imply that Burger King workers are skilled laborers ?

[@evlmpyr]

This comment that a Nazi who refused to commit genocide would also be killed has been visited many times and proven false. There were Nazis who did this and that did not happen. They were moved from that unit to another.