Sam Seder v. Anthony Furey: Libertarian Debate

Canadian political columnist and Libertarian activist Anthony Furey explains why he embraced Libertarian politics, debating the nature of regulations, why did we create government regulations, funding public universities, college education and success,does education infantilize young people? why we created Social Security, picking winners and losers, why Libertarians cannot be specific and what is the "free market" solution to food security solution....
This clip from the Majority Report, live M-F at 12 noon EST and via daily podcast at Majority.FM
Subscribe to us on KZbin: / samseder

[@DavidHeffron78]

I love it when they go "so you're in favour of taking money from people who can afford it and redistributing it." And Sam says "yes".

[@ungodlyatheism2743]

Anthony is the most evasive guy I ever heard. Any time Sam tries to examine something closely, Anthony changes the subject.

[@ivandafoe5451]

The only thing that sustains their beliefs is a very tightly controlled narrative that must not be challenged or it collapses like a house of cards.

[@PowerfulWarrior69]

Mormonism of political ideology

[@ThePsho]

It's because Anthony likely hasn't ever considered whatever issue Sam brings up, so he has no response, which is a large part of the problem with libertarians. You hit them with hypothetical scenarios (realistic ones) and they'll give you the old "let people decide for themselves" spiel until they finally realize there pretty much needs to be an ultimate decision maker. That decision maker can be whatever, just don't call it government (even though they're basically describing a government). Whenever I listen to a libertarian, I can't help my suspicion that their ultimate goal is to be allowed to get away with something extremely specific...

[@anthonysilva1000]

Did you even watch the video?

[@JohnLemieux]

"Beyond a certain point, complexity is fraud." Libertarianism has a severe fear of anything more politically complex than a large bumper sticker.

[@NightfallGemini]

"HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY!! SHUT UP!!!" is the Libertarian Jesus fish.

[@GreatPirateSolomon42]

This might be the most well spoken intelligent libertarian Sam has had on yet.... and its still a bunch of idiotic nonsense.

[@sarah7755]

GreatPirateSolomon 👏👏👏👏👏

[@dinahmoe9871]

GreatPirateSolomon Libertarians always mention well that's a "GREY AREA policy topic" but THEY NEVER acknowledge "GREY MATTER" ... just listen to concrete policy idea examples then switch to philosophical ideology as concrete policy...public education bad All the people just need their CORPORATE OverLORDS and they'll just donate all needs for the public just wait another couple hundred years and just maybe Libertarian FANTASY {whoops meant KOCH-policy} will show the world 1 example of their freedom REIGN

[@dinahmoe9871]

Well if someone has a $35.00 microwave they can't really be poor or worse a $20 burner cellphone w/$10 "pay as you go prepaid minutes" ...

[@Zatzzo]

Lmfao!

[@ChewyThomson]

He's politer and more level-headed than most Libertarians Sam has on here but this doesn't change the fact that he lives in fantasy land.

[@kidpresentable]

forcing mcdonald's to put calorie counts on menus was the last straw. i'm libertarian now

[@devourerofbabies]

Sam is worried about things like war, and this guy is worried about regulations on doorknobs. For fuck's sakes. How can anybody take these knuckleheads seriously?

[@rickylarch]

Ahh, yes. Anthony Furey. The former comment editor of the now defunct far right wing Sun News. A textbook example for the case that Canadians need more education, not less.

[@originalsinquirls1205]

I see hundreds of libertarian Americans on the internet every day who are magnitudes dumber than him. And just as many happen to be xenophobic religious nutcases. 50% of your country is open to genociding an entire people because you weren't happy with their religion. Wanna talk about Canadian education, fucking laughable.

[@nukiradio]

"I have a liberal arts degree, but why should we create a society that taxes you to give you a degree you cant use?" I swear, these guys cant hear themselves.

[@trout3685]

He's saying if you pay for it yourself then its fine.

[@Zatzzo]

In a libertarian utopia, who or what is going to prevent a new state and government from being created?

[@mezzaninex]

Liberty and free markets, obviously. Yes I am being facetious.

[@chrishakala528]

They just won't call them that..

[@fdub301]

I've never heard someone use the phrase "education state" before, but it doesn't sound like such a bad thing.

[@Mablak200]

In the 6 minute range, Sam asks whether Anthony cares about the difference between positive versus negative public policy regarding schools, and Anthony begins blabbering about the government interfering in 'more and more areas' of life. Are public schools a relatively recent 'interference' to him? As far as gearing schools solely towards free-market pressures, consider how heinous this would be for say, various areas involving research. We would have much less incentive to research and report on global warming, ocean acidification, or any long term environmental damage we're causing, if doing so went against business interests. And incentivizing education as much as possible, by providing cheap public education, is a step towards having a better educated populace, and one that makes better decisions. School is not purely about job training, it's also about creating rational thinkers, and thus a civilized society.

[@NightfallGemini]

The guy's a beep-boop. They hate the arts.

[@NightfallGemini]

whyamimrpink78 You *would* think education is indoctrination, you racist piece of shit. Tell us again how denying black people the ability to participate in the economy isn't racist.

[@Ooger77]

***** State Education being indoctrination has ZERO to do with race. Just like Religious Education being indoctrination has ZERO to do with race. You saying illogical things.

[@DamienDunn]

Ooger Sevenson dont fall for the tactics, you realize the convo moved from criticizing public schools to you defending whether or not what the guy said was racist. Recognize the tactics.....

[@Ooger77]

Damien Dunn I also pointed out that State Education, like Religious Education, is pure indoctrination, backing up the criticism of State Education.

[@BottleConcreteBlond]

I wish libertarians would actually say something and stick to it rather than saying something and then equivocating it away. By about 12 minutes in he seems to just be talking without saying anything.

[@NightfallGemini]

***** It's the Gish Gallop.

[@NightfallGemini]

***** It's Amway 642 to fascism.

[@NightfallGemini]

***** Exactly. They're literally trying to justify being bully punks because they can't handle not being liked. They're narcissists, all.

[@karljohn2145]

***** and to JUSTIFY and give RESPECTABILITY to it too.

[@vankai06]

Sam.. i don't know how you do it...doesn't it get depressing debating these tools?.. and you stay calm... i couldn't do what you do.

[@NightfallGemini]

I don't think it's ever depressing for Sam and the crew. It's comedy night every time, it seems.

[@hopperthemarxist8533]

These debates are necessary -- they are an opportunity not a burden -- any true lover of political debate, the question of how society ought to be organized -- would cherish any opportunity to have their position challenged... a position is strengthed by opposition -- the more you debate the more you get better -- debate is fucking fun

[@Conglo88]

You are joking right? Everyone knows that Seder is a paid shill.

[@hopperthemarxist8533]

Conglo88 Even if that were true, it wouldn't change the substance of the debate being had. Where is your evidence that Seder is a "paid shill" -- whatever that even means anyway..

[@hopperthemarxist8533]

***** Right. It muddies the argument when you get caught in any kind of ad hominem or emotional argument -- sometimes I get caught in them, but more often than not I keep in mind that I need to keep and even, objective keel -- play the trolls game and beat them at it is satisfying for it's own sake!

[@paulipaoli7956]

Furey is a very cold hearted man.

[@karljohn2145]

all Libertarians are. they only love themselves. they are SUPREME NARCISSISTS.

[@karljohn2145]

***** selfish dick!

[@elirien4264]

Most Libertarians and Conservatives are if you listen closely to them.

[@andrewwgold]

You should have this guy back on. You had some moments of him seeing the light and he was very polite.

[@williamhutton2126]

Thanks, Sam, for another entertaining installment of "spank the sophist". It never gets old watching the pseudo-philosophical train wreck of libertarianism grind to a screeching halt in public debates. They're adept at preaching to the choir but once they open the door to discourse, their casuistry and rhetoric *die* a spectacular death.

[@liberator6]

It’s always fun to listen to someone talk complete nonsense in such a brilliantly condescending tone. 😆

[@ItsOgre]

“We have no idea where the money goes (with governments)” actual in most cases we do. So that’s wrong. Where we don’t know where money gets spent it’s when it’s in the hands of corporations. Because there is zero transparency. Back in the early part of the 20th century one of the demands of the labor movement was for corporations to open their books.

[@bperez8656]

That’s a lie. In the US we constantly don’t know about our biggest spends The military industrial complex and federal reserve. And most countries are even less transparent then the US

[@crobblack]

This guy is barely a libertarian, I mean, he believes in roads for God’s sake!

[@honestchrismcg]

This guy is the only libertarian Sam has debated so far who behaves and thinks like an adult. His logic is critically flawed and his philosophy is misguided and ignorant, but every once in a while he managed to trip over a good point (credential inflation) and he managed to avoid becoming a moral absolutist ideologue. I tip my hat to Anthony Furey for merely having terrible ideas without being stupid and/or insane.

[@airthrow]

He's also one of the only Libertarians who doesn't seem like an utter piece of shit who is lying through his teeth to try and become king of the mountain. He's wrong as hell, doesn't have any specific ideas that are any good etc, but the same can be said for every Libertarian.

[@waksibra]

Why don't you prove them wrong instead of simply slandering?

[@nin6246]

airthrow Do you think libertarians such as Walter Block, Thomas Sowell, Gary Johnson, Peter Schiff, Tom Woods, Walter Williams, etc. are just liars who want to "become king of the mountain"? I am interested what media you are consuming that would lead you to that conclusion.

[@airthrow]

nin6246 The media I consume is listening to Libertarians speak.

[@nin6246]

airthrow Fair enough - have you listened to any of the ones I mentioned?

[@BaronVonQuiply]

STAND BACK! I'm a real doctor! I studied medicinification at the local liberry!

[@cmack17]

These libertarians have something in common. Make definitive claims and give nothing definitive to support their claims.

[@somogoto]

it's so infuriating how much Sam lets this dude just say so many completely uninformed things before he barely gets corrected

[@3brenm]

Health care is a 'niche interest' apparently haha

[@chasekruse7047]

Man this guy is a walking example of running into the point of why libertarian ideas are stupid as hell and not getting it

[@superbigblack]

They never get specific. The people will come together to help build trains and the tracks for free. They'll help build solar system and apartment buildings and no govt to say who will profit from that building or train.

[@mattsalvage8339]

There’s never been a duo quite like Sam Seder and Michael Brooks

[@silat13]

Someone please call 911. This guy needs to be put on a 5150 hold.

[@marilynj-w8427]

Am I right that this guy never really made a point?

[@fromeveryting29]

Funny how this guy conveniently ignores the fact that the happiest, most prosperous, healthy societies ever to have existed all have heavy government regulation, redistribution and free public services. Scandinavia. I have a free university degree in liberal arts. And although my degree doesn’t directly give me a high paying job or generate loads of money short term, I think having a population that is litterate in critical thinking, history, logic and ethics is VITAL to a functioning democracy and good society. And you know what? My society thinks it’s worth it to collectively invest in a population that has a large span of education. My life was also saved by free public healthcare, that I likely couldn’t have gotten without permanently ruining my familys economic welfare. My society sais «everyone deserves health, education and welfare, no matter their economic contribution to society. Everyone is vulnerable and we are going to stand together to help each other.» Most norwegians are happy to pay higher taxes, because we get a WORLD of rewards for it. We get to give our individual contributions to society independent of economic utility, we get to see our poorer friends and family recieve goog healthcare, we get a more meritocratic society because every kid gets access to similar public goods. We HELP EACH OTHER.

[@newtagwhodis4535]

Libertarians make a verbal stew of cherry picking their favorite little dream scenarios based on little details from the past to build a little fantasy land where you get to pick the taxes you like off a menu. Libertarian wet dreams are all the same and logical conclusions crush them oh so satisfactorily. Thank you for your divine patience, you deserve a freaking medal, every debate you keep your cool way better than I would.

[@julianjanssen5499]

It is amazing when this libertarian is just cataloguing human progress as black marks against our society.

[@brucekm]

It’s so hard for me to listen to these unprincipled weirdos who clearly only think of themselves. “I don’t want the government to make any laws or regulations I do not personally benefit from,” is all they ever really say. This guy cares about public transportation, supports governmental “interference” in that MARKET but not in education??? Why? Because you already HAVE your degree? Libertarian is defined as “selfish prick with stupid ideas”.

[@samsederisanidiot5993]

You've got to love liberals. Always protesting stereotypes of blacks, Hispanics, gays, atheists, and Muslims, yet when it comes to demographics they don't like, libertarians in this instance, they engage in the same type of stereotyping by assuming libertarians are "selfish," "privileged," "racist," "paranoid," [insert buzzword here] until proven otherwise. According to them, no libertarian has ever done charity work or had a hard life. And black libertarians like Walter Williams or Thomas Sowell, well, they must not exist! These advocates for the handicapped will even throw in the word "tard" as an added bonus!

[@avenuePad]

I love coming back to this video. Haha. I'm quite familiar with Anthony - I'm Canadian and was exposed to him on our Fox equivalent network, Sun TV. Honestly, Sun TV was actually worse than Fox. Anyway, the way Anthony says absolutely nothing, yet keeps moving his lips is amazing. He answers every question by repeating the question in his answer, ie. "At the end of the day (he loves saying that), the reason I want less taxes on rich people is because China is better off now since they've moved away from communism." I know he didn't say that...exactly. I'm just making fun of his arguments.

[@donnyrosart8714]

The idea of free market self-education has not aged well.

[@kunaaljagtianey7231]

I have a theory. What I've noticed is libertarians get extremely angry when they speak to Sam because as they make their points, they realize how stupid they are, and they get more annoyed. I don't think there has been one calm libertarian through any of these debates. Like the government is forcing corporations to require higher education...

[@firstlast9916]

Weird how I thought the exact opposite. Sam seems lost in all these libertarian debates. He can’t get around the fact that the country has been libertarian for most of its history.

[@kunaaljagtianey7231]

​@@firstlast9916 Well, you're entitled to your opinion...

[@firstlast9916]

@@kunaaljagtianey7231 state and federal income tax started around 1911. The endless list of federal and state benefits all started in the 1960s. Drug war and war on immigration started in the 60s too.

[@kunaaljagtianey7231]

@@firstlast9916 First off, just not having income tax isn't the core of libertarian ideas. There has almost always been a governing body to stop people from running their lives/businesses in a certain way. If tax was the only way to call a country libertarian, most of the Middle East would be libertarian... Laws on a federal level started in 1790. And the overall point is, though there have been pockets of a free market and libertarian life, they have never worked. In theory, it's great. But in practise, people die or get screwed over in some way because of cost cutting or people basically trying to get the lowest bid for work. It's a utopian ideal in a world with a lot of shitty people. Including those libertarians who want to be libertarian because they want to pay their employees nothing and cut corners to make as much profit as possible.

[@kunaaljagtianey7231]

Every libertarian has a different idea of libertarianism because they're selfish and only think of the exact things they need as opposed to any other human. Some people agree with government intervention for x y z because it specifically benefits them. "I don't benefit from laws regarding building code because I have a store where they sell watches. I don't need the government to tell me what standards this building needs to be up to and I don't want to pay taxes because I think it doesn't affect my life."

[@Findingthe3truths]

Very end of the clip, Furey says that poverty isn’t as terrible as it used to be. I WONDER WHY

[@mikesmith2560]

It's amazing to me how people can't actually conceive of property rights and individual rights of Libertarianism. That is absolutely amazing. Anyone looking for debate?

[@rupertmja1]

I am a-political and try to get the best from each side. That being said, I cannot really find much fault with Furey`s positions. They seem entirely logical to me - as do various ideas from both left and right. I think many people come to a debate already so wrapped up in their own political ideology that they just fail to even listen to and ponder a view that might differ. The reality is - no one has all the answers. Politics has become more divisive than religion. And consider this - if you go to study religion at a university you will likely end up a-religious due to being forced to study other religions. But if you study politics you will typically stand your ground, dig in, and become even more resistant to listening to different ideas. Ridiculous, in my opinion. People need to wake up, wipe the slate clean, and just start again. We are in a mess and we need to figure out why - the powers that be - the bankers - are quite happy to rule us divided.

[@Phi1618033]

Maximize liberty???? WTF does that even mean?

[@tirsden]

It's amazing how these tend to derail into arguments about what is even being argued about and/or how to argue about it... because libertarians don't want to lose and know when they're losing, which is usually pretty fast when Sam is involved.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

College should not be exclusively for job education. Higher education should be available to everyone for the sake of knowledge. If someone wants to go be a doctor, cool its good for thr economy. If someone wants to study the history of some abstract concept, good, a deeper thinking society is more economically prosperous. A smarter population is good for society.

[@ChezMAS1190]

Imagine saying that our standards for poverty have gone up and thinking that’s a bad thing

[@paulaguenon1660]

He needs to study the Great Depression in this country. The free market didn't help the hungry in this country during this time.

[@sassy_sasarai4090]

This guy just talks over everything Sam says without really responding to it.

[@stevenkennedy9451]

You dissected him Sam

[@akselp]

Furey wants more freedom, but people shouldn`t be able to take eduction that doesn`t guarantee a job.. What a crock..

[@mattmeistrell3082]

What about people not leaving the workforce until quite late in life?

[@wresler103]

"I mean I have a liberal arts education, and it benefits what I do..." Wait, wasn't he just shitting on liberal arts education because it wasn't what society needs?

[@NightfallGemini]

That's the beauty of the Gish Gallop and also the beauty of never shutting the fuck up ever (seriously, is Furey like a motormouth young version of Walter Block?); you never get to call someone out on the hypocrisy while they're having the verbal diarrhea.

[@jorgealmeida2186]

For an ally of freedom of choice he certainly is opposed to the choices of people regarding their education path.

[@gasolineandwine]

@@jorgealmeida2186 fundamentally, "I did it and benefited from it but we shouldn't pay for other people to do what I did"

[@julianjanssen5499]

You can always count on a libertarian to undermine their own argument. It reminds me of that one time a guy was questioning Sam because he never ran a restaurant, but the caller never ran a restaurant too.

[@MickeyLeeBukowski]

You know what stops people from achieving their goals? Dying from eating unregulated meat.

[@akamuzz84]

Mickey Lee Bukowski the free market would regulate meat, the producer is the last person who wants to poison their customers.

[@douglaslangley9251]

@@akamuzz84 that is an objective lie. Companies have been cutting corners for profit over safety/welfare for decades. The free market doesnt regulate shit when several companies get together and decide territory so that you cant exactly shop around. Hard to vote with your wallet while shitting your brains out from e coli

[@scarpaflow]

martin sutcliffe you need to read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. The grotesque animal agriculture and meatpacking still lives today. Processed food is leading to obesity and bad health. It's just that Americans accept the fact that eating shit is worth it.

[@daviddavidson8050]

Unregulated meat issue is a matter for the States or at least they're supposed to do that. Founders said or left a lot of things up to the States. To each their own. Live and let live.

[@douglaslangley9251]

@@daviddavidson8050 cant quite live when youre dying from unregulated meat.

[@awsumpossum1]

I can never understand why libertarians essentially grow up on socialism, and then act like they are totally autonomous

[@NightfallGemini]

Zero self-awareness and massive narcissism.

[@karljohn2145]

do you ever expect a Libertarian to tell the WHOLE TRUTH "I don't want ANY of my tax money to go to others and we should only have a society where education, social services, housing etc. should be paid for voluntarily like my townships VOLUNTEER fire department. you have, you get. you don't, you won't . oh well!"

[@humanwithaplaylist]

They dont grow up on socialism, Canada is capitalist not socialist. Some social services does not make a country socialist

[@BottleConcreteBlond]

I hate these because the libertarians invariably just talk and talk, don't listen, and don't answer questions.

[@SoundsSilver]

To be fair, it’s hard to listen when you’re yelling your own talking points inside your head in order to remain convinced of them.

[@democrazy69]

No big surprise that this libertarian 'didn't want to get into specifics'. They never do. They just want to spout unsubstantiated platitudes in pretty ways.

[@kathykelly5930]

There isn't any one specific way to solve these problems, thats the point, no one person or group can solve ppl's problems.

[@NightfallGemini]

kathy kelly Debates without specificity are bullshit and you know it. None of you libertarians can provide any actual concrete policy answers because you either have none, or you know the answer would torpedo your cred by virtue of being racist, classist garbage, i.e. the kind of shit that you and iammrpink spout on the regular.

[@dougcasey6117]

@thesparitan Hey, don't rush her!

[@JoeDirtisawsome]

DONT ASK ME HOW TO LEGISLATE FREEDOM SAM!!!

[@lambynighttrain]

@@NightfallGemini They don't have all the answers... so lets give a small group of people (who also don't have the answers) and give them monoply of force.. that'll make everything olk

[@scottpastry]

I always get giddy like a school girl when i see there is another Libertarian debate on Sams channel!

[@b50262]

scottpastry really? I usually find em a lil boring. Their arguments are so flimsy. Sam still keeps it good. “You and me buddy, I wish we all had wings! “ lol

[@e.m.straub466]

So does Sam when a caller tells him he’s a libertarian

[@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810]

It’s like shooting fish in barrel for Sam. Libertarians are so stupid.

[@CjLegend]

@@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810 easier to call people stupid than refute their arguments, eh? -Vincent P. Adams, GED

[@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810]

@@CjLegend you’re a dingus. No issues are being brought up. It’s a comment section not a debate. We and me are commenting on how much we like Sam debating libertarians and how stupid Sam always makes them look, which isn’t a look. Libertardians must have things explained to them. So I understand your confusion. You’re a libertarian and you no understand things too good.

[@Rahab111222]

Taxation is the price you pay for civilization. Grow up and deal with it.

[@dougcasey6117]

Great Helm... Yeah but not having civilization worked so well in The Grizzly Adams TV series : )

[@charliemills6235]

Guess you don't mind paying for my welfare then, chump.

[@slappab]

Charlie Mills yeah lol he prolly doesn’t

[@call-1515]

@@charliemills6235 monetary sovereignty of the United States means that my federal taxes will NEVER pay for your welfare. That's how fiat currency works.

[@davecunningham579]

@@charliemills6235 why single out welfare?

[@brucevandieten9330]

In Canada, a "socialist" country, we have 3X greater social mobility than the much more "free market" and libertarian US. His argument folds like a cheap suit.

[@lambynighttrain]

1. the US isn't a free market. 2. Time is not on your side (socialist and statist) 2 years later and Canada is in finanical trouble.

[@ironmiron08]

@@lambynighttrain I don't feel troubled.

[@Jefferson-ly5qe]

@@lambynighttrain did you read his comment? He said the US was more free, not totally free

[@humanwithaplaylist]

Canada unfortunately is not socialist

[@Mablak200]

Complete hypocrisy at 21:26. Anthony said he himself isn't able to put a precise number on how much taxation or government involvement should exist (for schools I think it was), yet he demands that Sam should do exactly this. He also doesn't understand that taxes are a means of redistributing wealth? Is Sam talking to a high schooler?

[@NightfallGemini]

"Is Sam talking to a high schooler?" Yes.

[@originalsinquirls1205]

Hopefully he graduated high school.

[@tianamaycry]

@@originalsinquirls1205 I'm sure he graduated, but he clearly never left mentally.

[@LacusTheDestroyer]

32:54 _"...George Bush and Bill Clinton wanted people to have free homes..."_ I fell out of my chair laughing. Made the half an hour of nothing that preceded it all worthwhile.

[@ToxicTerrance]

"The government has no right telling you what college is best" Nobody said that, Sam only said the government should provide free options. Smfh

[@lambynighttrain]

Where is the government going to get the money?

[@codydavis3100]

@@lambynighttrain taxes

[@chrishakala528]

@@lambynighttrain 1. Taxes. 2. The federal government controls the money supply and can print whatever money it needs as long as people continue to trust in the stability of that government and its currency (i.e. that the government and people will honor the currency). The real purpose of federal taxes is to limit the increase in the amount of money in circulation.

[@Littlegoatpaws]

I doubt he's known a true economic burden in his life, especially being in a country slightly ahead of mine socially, and life in my country is not too shabby either, thanks to these government burdens of his. Someone is a bit of an "entitled whiner" who is obviously not doing too bad for himself. He argues if someone has a TV they must not really be poor since it isn't 1920's poor, nor must they complain. Classic. "That person actually owns something, therefore they are not poor! How dare they burden me with their demands of affordable healthcare and education!"

[@heckler73]

Holy shit... one red herring after another. It's too bad Furry (sic) couldn't just answer the questions such as, "what is the free market solution" or "what countries did that happen in" without sauntering off into babble-land. If he didn't know the answer, it would have been respectable for him to just say _I don't know_. At least he didn't foam at the mouth..._HEY HEY HEY HEEEYyyyyy, 6 > 0_

[@kathykelly5930]

There is no one solution that any one can come up with in the free market, thats the point, its the combined genius of the species.

[@technatezin]

kathy kelly Doubtful. The combine "genius" of the species is disorganized and dispersed into many redundant enterprises all trying to gain at the expense of another, so it won't benefit anyone broadly, but only those who have the good fortune, psychological ruthlessness and resources to out compete other "geniuses".

[@heckler73]

Minethis1 Too bad for him, I'm 10th Dan in Bullshit Kendo. TO THE OCTAGON!!!!!

[@gyrate4]

Furey made some vague "arguments." Gentlemanly Sam gave him every opportunity in 51 minutes to make some specific points, though Furey never managed to succeed. He was a tad more composed than the libertarian professor.

[@tianamaycry]

Oh my, and that professor was just a fucking crazyman. I wanna see just how much more talk time that guy got than Sam with all his whinging. I'd be shocked if it wasn't about 75%. Guy gish galloped for days, I'd have half a mind to say that was his strategy.

[@shinemperor8950]

The way it usually works in Libertarian "debates" is that first, the initial thrust is philosophical and abstract. The core idea, is they try to get the upper hand with just ideas.This is usually where Sam struggles, but not because he doesn't understand. quite the opposite, I'm paraphrasing but Sam essentially says "Yeah, I get that... but what about, you know, the REAL WORLD?" ...and that's where very often Libertarians fall flat. They rarely have solid data or examples. They use key talking points on "Liberty"... the best part, is when you get into definitions of things. It's funny, Stefan Molyneux has said this himself. He's said "Most disagreements come from how we define things." Which absolutely true. The problem is the definition of "Freedom" or "Liberty" always seems so convoluted or abstract. Libertarians will find more success if they simply put their ideas into practice... but often there just aren't enough example to demonstrate the Libertarianism isn't simply Utopian and misguided. The rubber needs to meet the road. Libertarians need concrete examples and fewer abstract definitions. This is why it's easy to agree with Sam. In his mind, these people have no touch with reality. Why? Because their ideas never have any real world examples or application. They need to demonstrate, with more than rhetoric, what it is their ideas are and how to apply them.

[@ivandafoe5451]

They do have plenty of "real world examples" but none of them match up very well with their fantasy versions

[@6thMessenger]

After I have listened to hours of typical misinformed libertarian callers, it is refreshing to have an intelligent and articulate libertarian. However, no matter how articulate the libertarian is, the libertarian argument is still based on their childhood oppositional defiant disorder - hatred of authority. Libertarianism gives them a name for their disorder and an ideology to rally around. But it's not a legitimate political ideology because it's existence and adherence requires belief in misinformation, ignorance of economic history, sociology, and political science. Liberty does not come from an unchained free market. Corporate feudalism is the result of an unchained free market, and if you think you have no liberty or not enough liberty now, feudalism is not where you want to be. Those who support libertarianism are either incapable or unwilling to rationally identify that the end results are counter intuitive to their desire for more liberty.

[@steveryan1799]

So what is it that you want, if not liberty?

[@6thMessenger]

Steve Ryan American Libertarianism isn't about liberty regardless of how often they repeat that lie. It's actually about creating a feudal government and a serfdom society where workers are so indebted to the biggest corporations, the only thing they'll have to barter with is their civil rights. I'll explain. The ideology of American libertarianism was created by a corporatist propaganda think tank called The Foundation of Economic Education, founded by corporate lobbyist Leonard E.Read in 1946. Corporatists have the goal of "less government in business and more business in government." So they were motivated to fight against the new deal because it took power and money away from the wealthy elite and gave it back to the middle class. So they had to come up with a way to get voter support. They borrowed the term libertarianism from the left wing because of the root word, liberty. Then they sold the idea that corporatism would provide more liberty for the people. The plan is to unchained business and decrease the capability of the people to unionize and decrease the democratic government's ability to control business by shrinking or eliminating government. Thus, big business would be free and able to take over government, as well as control society through debt and resources, so they could own all of the wealth and wield all of the power. It's been a very slow, quiet process of tax cuts for the rich, deregulation of business, suppressing wages, altering definitions in the constitution, increasing consumer debt and publicly held debt, and growth of the military force - to suppress any uprisings. I think Trump is intended to be the catalyst to cause the economic crash which will cause the people to come crawling to the handful of elites for help.

[@steveryan1799]

Libertarian is just a label that means different things to different people. All labels are useless in this respect.

[@icecoldpierre]

Liebertarianism is a religion. That is the only explanation that accounts for how they can believe in some system that they can not fully explain and that has never existed nor can be explained as to how it can come into existence.

[@punchcat1234]

6thMessenger yea who doesn’t any questions and avoids facts haha your a joke

[@samp9418]

The libertarian was totally incoherent and couldn’t stick to any point, he just went rambling on and on ... almost as if he couldn’t substantiate any of his claims with evidence.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

They talk like politicians. They know how to stall for time and redirect a question away from a direct answer.

[@NeoRipshaft]

"OK - I see your facts and they make my position look bad, but how about this thought experiment!?" -- LIBERTARIANISM

[@zach-rac]

I always, without fail, forget just how utterly disconnected from the real world each and every 'Libertarian' caller is.

[@mzavros]

Uh... he never answered what the 'free market' solution would be for welfare, did he?

[@alexrempel12390]

"You mean you think you can just cycle money around?" ... "Yeah."

[@johnnytwotimes7854]

Uhh that's what an economy is... lol

[@Ga5524]

I can see the Libertarians heading this way to defend this guy.

[@cannonballkid]

Wait for the Kathy Kelly character to respond to literally every comment on the thread. They all have to time to bitch and moan on the comments but could never find the time to call in the show...

[@Ga5524]

As always.

[@NightfallGemini]

Stringer Bell Better yet, they all have time to bitch and moan, but could never find the time to actually answer a question. Don't forget about that "iammrpink" dude or whatever.

[@karljohn2145]

Stringer Bell Kathy, Polak, Armando,IamMrPink,et al. I'm slowly beginning to think that they are all 1 person with several sockpuppet channels.

[@PrecisionPulseCapital]

Why would I have to defend anything he said, he talked about why the American system is broken from government intervention

[@audioish]

old video but dude is quoting PragerU exactly. Same phrasing and terms like crony capitalism, big gov't forcing home ownership, picking winners and losers. Verbatim from the PragerU episode.

[@BChan1991]

They all have the same talking points and cannot explain ANY OF THEM Even Shen Bapiro on BBC was like "well i believe it b3cAuSe sC1EnCe" Thats the easiest way to spot a bullshitter

[@victor_venema]

Dear libertarians, could you point me to the best video of Sam debating libertarians? The anti-freedom KZbin algorithm keeps on suggesting fools who dodge questions.

[@Drunkliberty1776]

The one with Dave Smith is pretty good. One of my favorite debates ever.

[@BottleConcreteBlond]

At 34 I wanted Sam to yell "hey, hey, hey, hey... Shut up!"

[@arp76]

This guy is embarrassing us Canadians...

[@cleslie9250]

He's actually doing very well. It's really hard to present some extremely intelligent oxymoron logic to make the average people who are too lazy think things through for themselves to vote against their own interest. It's hard to get on the Koch brother's payroll. There's a lot of money in selling souls.

[@GoSuMonSteR]

It's easy for certain people to say "do it on your own" when you own all the resources and land. Lets not forget how this country began in the first place; taking from some and giving to others.

[@jordanwood183]

These older clips are still worth watching years later, because the weak Libertarian arguments against regulation have not changed, & Sam’s way of clearly debunking them are still applicable.

[@modelmajorpita]

Why do libertarians care so much about the size of government? Rather than explaining what they want government to do, they just say they want a small government and claim that anyone who disagrees with them wants big government. Seriously, why are they more focused on size rather than quality?

[@lilkitten545]

Because they know they would sound like Psychos if they said I'd like cut out healthcare, all private, no government help, no food stamps, no welfare help, just let everyone die or depend on the bits of food the rich drop, let's not focus on the fact that single payer healthcare is more cost effective. Isolationist, legalize every drug but don't tax it and don't fund programs to help people get off these drugs, don't fund police, firemen, or if you do, fund them minimally because crime will just disappear you know. No regulation, no taxation or very minimal taxation depending on what type of Libertarian you talk to, there's no set of beliefs for them, they are sort of all over the place, All of these arguments are crazy..it's just a smaller form of anarchy with some of them

[@YorickReturns]

modelmajorpita Libertarians are subjectivists, as the socialists are. They can barely handle concepts. Sam Seder won't invite on a real pro-capitalist. He likes playing with the percept-bound, emotionalistic libertarians.

[@Ooger77]

YorickReturns Subjectivists how? And how does that make someone unable to handle concepts?

[@YorickReturns]

Ooger Sevenson Libertarians believe that morality, and often other aspects of reality too, are subjective. Concepts are properly formed through induction of reality, which is objective.

[@Ooger77]

YorickReturns I don't see how Libertarians believe that morality is subjective. Maybe you can make a case that Libertarian morality isn't internally consistent or that its a theory that doesn't describe an efficient economic system but philosophically, the subjective nature of morality doesn't make morality not objective.

[@MOME914]

LMAO at 42:00 when Sam explains how an economy works to this weirdo.

[@MOME914]

+Thomas Buchovecky that hilarious that you call Sam a leftist authoritarian when furey's example country is China, which is actually leftist authoritarian. Lmao why are libertarians so funny!!!!

[@donaldclifford5763]

MOME914: Fool, China went from cruel Maoist "Great Leap Forward" and "Cultural Revolution" Marxism, to Deng Xiaoping's economic market oriented pragmatism, causing the greatest uplifting in human material well being in the shortest time in human history. Granted they're beginning to sputter now, after almost 30 years of non stop double digit annual GDP growth. They too must accommodate their policies to the emerging information age economy, and let go of central authority in China.

[@avenuePad]

Anthony Furey - what a guy. He's a regular on Fox...I mean Sun TV up here in Canada. These guys love to listen to themselves speak instead of actually listening to the crap they are saying. He's so full of s**t it's unbearable.

[@mopes2713]

The funny thing is that Anthony comes from Canada a nation in which many of Sam’s talking points have been proven effective, so many of Anthony’s talking points kind of defeat themselves. Lol!

[@infiniteflame2374]

We need to change the language around these issues. Regulations. Nobody likes regulations being told what to do etc. But what they really are is protections. Environmental, worker, food protections. There to protect you from unscrupulous businesses would would harm you in the name of profit. So the next time a politician says we need to remove these worker regulations for example, replace it with protections and see if make you feel a different way about it.

[@vankai06]

'I wanted good THIIINGS! for people....' shit.. need to pour a drink for myself.... gonna be a long video

[@irrefudiate]

There's another "free market" purveyor who believes continuing education should be a private, for-profit affair. Canada already has universal healthcare so I'm not hanging around to hear his take on that.

[@andrew_owens7680]

_I used to think that liberal ideas were great until I realized there was more money shilling for conservatives._

[@zspark14gamesnquips22]

Libertarians: "What don't you understand about what I'm saying? VOTERS ARE STUPID BUT CONSUMERS ARE SMART!"

[@hugoschkiglitz]

The problem with guys like this caller is that they’ve educated themselves on how to better stay ignorant on a particular topic. Then they go out and talk to people in their entourage who know a little less about said topic, and manage to convince those people with big words and unprepared arguments - thus creating more looney bin nut jobs in society.

[@willdenham]

He says 'at the end of the day, government never had much of a role in education.' I guess he didn't know that public education is a government program.

[@colerxxx]

He can't tell you at what level there should be government involvement but you can know damn well that in office, he will say no to any involvement. All Libertarian ideas take us back in some way to a time when we were early settlers and many people thought the world was flat. They have a logically sounding philosophy that falls apart as soon as it meets the "pragmatic" world. The silliest thing about Libertarian philosophy is that, if you listen closely, but for your lack of logic, you will think just like them and the world will be grand. We have trouble arguing with them because they are so insensible that you can't meet them on common ground. I think that throughout history people chose what was good for us collectively by votining. Somebody should make a Librarian explain what property is and when it is his! Typically, throughout history, it was determined by WAR. Democracy is a way to prevent war. Having a society without constant armed conflict is very very good. - even if it isn't Libertarian. Vote! and never forget these guys are real, out there and they are not your friend.

[@donaldclifford5763]

This caller gets it I think because he majored in history. The US was born of the Enlightenment. We're still living down the excesses of the progressive era. Old ideas die hard. Bringing libertarian ideals into reality isn't hard. Whatever can be done in the civilian economy is better done locally and in the private sector, instead of by overly centralized federal government.

[@colerxxx]

NO. We have lived down the era of the Neo-con. Where "trickle down theory" and it's lies have been proven to be a lie from the Right, just like everything else they had to tell us. Aren't you tired of having these guys wreck the economy of your town and then march down Main St. at election time telling you that they are the party of business so they have the know on how to fix your economy? When you going to learn? For 60 years they have been vastly in the minority and keep winning elections with rigged means and lies. Their soul goal is to defeat Democracvy. Don't you hear them? At war they will tell you it's all about protecting the guy next to you and then when you get home - he's the enemy cause he got his leg shot off and needs veterans aid. - and he should die in the street diseased and penniless. What vapid fools you all are. Freedom means the freedom to be a barber or a teacher or a mechanic. You aren't loosing because you don't race them to the top of the money heap. Listen carefully - that's what they tell you. to them Freedom is the freedom to get rich without a monarchy getting in the way.

[@donaldclifford5763]

Ern Collins: Neo con is a reference to foreign policy. I'm talking about the excesses of a non stop advance through republican and democrat administrations where the political elite increase their power and influence while enticing groups into believing it's for their benefit. The inherent contradiction is the elites and the special interests always benefit to the detriment of the greater public good, and the future national prosperity. Libertarians call this "statism". Historically, this liberal progressive statism is coextensive with the industrial revolution, through its multiple stages. We're entering the information age. These old ways are anachronisms. Though I do admit they die hard, as seen in this video.

[@colerxxx]

I agree with you. I don't always chose the right words. This has been going on all of my life of approx 65 years. The majority of the public Never gets it's way but a few rich do nearly always. We all know this but we can't turn to the people who are there to guard us and call them the perpetrators and expect to get anything out of it. They wont arrest themselves. So we are stunned and just keep talking in circles about it. One of the things we can do is to socially attack the die-hard stupid in our midst. Make it hard for them to live with their stupidity. Arm ourselves like never before with the facts and set up the agencies that can do it. If we can finance Bernie Sanders we can finance our own think and media tanks. We had better be prepared to protect the Internet at all costs.

[@donaldclifford5763]

Ern Collins: Sadly our national treasure in the internet is now lost. The globalists finally gained control, thanks to our lame duck president and do nothing lame brain congress. Internet freedom, RIP.

[@eded9860]

Damn, I missed that free home give away from that lefty George Bush!

[@willdenham]

I like in his retort to affordable higher education he mentions the great libraries that Carnegie donated. Does he realize you can't get a degree from a public library?

[@dontworryillwait3689]

Or from a fucking park 😂

[@danielballard3946]

As a Canadian, I feel I need to apologize for Anthony Furey

[@ivandafoe5451]

The Anthony Fureys that come out of their delusional dreamworld to speak publicly (completely oblivious to all that Canada provides) are a stark reminder that freedom of speech does have its costs after all.

[@Yausbro]

we should export him to Florida

[@karlawade3346]

Too bad Mr. Furey likes the sound of his own voice so much... it seems to prevent him from making any logical arguments.

[@guygenius138]

Libertarian claims that the rich will just give money to the poor, then says he would be burdened by making sure Sam and his family aren't poor. Sheesh.

[@andrewlunceford5503]

Maximizing Liberty, right there is the heart of the issue. We should not be maximizing liberty, we should be maximizing well-being. Liberty can be a useful tool to do so, but when liberty and well being conflict, go with well being.

[@originalsinquirls1205]

Uh no. The problem is not that. What your idea is is very controversial. It is better to say let's prioritize meaningful choices than prioritize more choices but less good ones.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

"We don't need free college because Free education already exists because libraries" My brother, we're talking about places where you can get a degree and subsequently a job *with* that degree. I can't get a degree from the library You can't walk into a hospital and say "medical school? Yes I did 4 years at my local library. Where's the surgery floor?"

[@LacusTheDestroyer]

I thought he was doing a pretty good job until you actually got him to talk about something. Then it all fell apart.

[@armstrem]

How is Jordan Peterson bigger than this guy? This guy is more semi-coherent in his thoughts than little 1920s boy asking for more porridge Jordan Peterson.

[@HandthatRockstWorld]

"I should be in charge of everything because I alone am the blessed white male savior the whole universe has been waiting for!" -Every Libertarian ever

[@lambynighttrain]

that doesn't make any sense

[@letters_from_paradise]

Having a singular person in charge based entirely on their race and gender is exactly the opposite of what a libertarian would want. If you're going to attack them, wt least attack them correctly.

[@HandthatRockstWorld]

@@letters_from_paradise that's my point. Libertarians are hypocrites and liars.

[@frankpontone2139]

blessed white male? nice racism there

[@whowherewhatwhywen]

So his solution to food insecurity is to go ahead and let people starve? Because the market will work that out somehow?